Latest / Bloomberg Intelligence / Drug Prices Increased 35 to 435%, Despite Trump Pledge

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Drug Prices Increased 35 to 435%, Despite Trump Pledge · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm pim Fox.
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  Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa A. Bramowitz. Each day
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• 0:31
  Speaker 1: We've been talking how drug prices in the United States
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: should fall. That is what policymakers want. That is what
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: customers want, not what pharmaceutical companies want. So are they fall? Like?
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Here to talk about that is Michael Ray, founder and
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: chief executive of our ex Saving Solutions based in Overland Park, Kansas,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: but he joins us here in our eleven three oh studios. So, Michael,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: something happened over Labor Day? Was it a price cut
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: for pharmaceutical drugs or or or something else? Price cuts
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the net ati um? Yeah, So, you know we've seen
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: a flurry of activity even post fiser um. You know
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: when the President did did tweet about the price increases
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: back in July. One of those companies was a company
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: called Nostrom, very small by market cap standpoint, but one
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: that raised the price of a very common antibiotic that's
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: been around for sixty years. Michael's on Labor Day. This
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: was on Labor Day. Yes, it was actually right before
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Labor Day weekend. We saw a whole bunch of activity
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: on both Thursday and Friday that week. Uh, going into
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: a long weekend, not surprising holiday. Maybe people taking our
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: eye off the ball. We were not taking our eye
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: off the ball. Michael. What is spread pricing and what
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: does it have to do with CVS charging almost two
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars for a bottle of pills when it told
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: the pharmacy that it was worth less than six dollars,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: And what was the company doing with all the extra money.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: It's a great question. Millions of people are trying to
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: figure out. Um, you know, the difference between the two
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars and the six dollars. Six dollars is what
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: the pharmacy was reimbursed for a drug. Uh. The company
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: that was paying the bill was charged two hundreds. So
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: the difference of that is a d bucks that goes
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: into the pockets of someone. Uh. In this case it
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: was CBS and they, you know, they profited handsibly from
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: that transaction. This is called spread pricing, correct. Yeah, And
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a common industry term that goes back
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: years or so. It was something that that had a
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: lot of focused on it. It went away to a
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: large degree, and now it is it is back in
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: in a big way. We've been talking with you over
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: the number of months and years that we've had conversations
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: about the desire to bring down drug pricing and the
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: inability to do so, and we talked about spread pricing.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: We talked about how even though there does seem to
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: be a push to lower prices, it just isn't happening.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Why are companies able to raise a drug it's four
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: hundred percent over a long weekend and no one cares
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: and no one pushes back. Where does this come from? Yeah?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: So you know people, people do care, and the problem
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: has been pointed out for for decades. Uh. The problem
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: is there is an uninformed market, there's an inefficient market.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: And the only way to change that is to do
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: what we've done in every other area of our life,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: and that is informed consumers of what things cost and
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: what options they have. From a therapy standpoint, it's very simple. Uh,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: it's not. It is also very difficult, difficult. Is there
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: a quid pro quo when it comes to a pharmacy
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: benefit management company carrying a specific drug from a specific manufacturer.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: There can be depends on the PBMU, depends on the
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: drug manufacturer, but absolutely we've seen cases where there's a
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: quid pro quoil. Can you argue that pharmaceutical companies need
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: pricing to be where it's at for them to be
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: able to innovate and for them to be able to
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: uh come up with the life saving drugs that we're seeing. Well,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm the first to uh to endorse the
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: amount of research to to really bring breakthrough therapies to
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the market, and I think that people and companies that
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: do that should be be rewarded handsomely for it, and
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: they are. I think, is there is there fluff in
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: all of the drugs that have been around forty years? Absolutely,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: So I think that there's a lot of extra profit
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: put on put on some medications that don't bring something
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: very very meaningful to the market. So I think that
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: what your objective is to say that the free market
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: principles that have guided prices for so many other markets
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: kind of have not existed in the pharmaceutical industry because
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: of the way that things have structured and the lack
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: of transparency when it comes to what the actual pricing is.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: And so what you're trying to do is to give
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: more information. Is that enough given the fact that insurance
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: companies end up paying things and getting rebates and the
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: you know, the whole sort of muddied and complicated system,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: And is there any chance of overhauling that? Well, it's
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: a there are many things. There are many components that
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: make up make this this benefit so complicated. Um. So
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: a couple of things that are very easy rebates go away, um,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: and consumers have information about prices. I mean those are
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: just kind of that's not going to solve every problem,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: but it's going to get you nine of the way there. Um.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: People don't want to be making decisions that cost a
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: lot of money intentionally, but they also don't want to
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: be told what to do. They want the chance to choose.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: If I buy a car, I want to I want
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: to choose which car I buy. It's very similar with drugs,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: and it's much more personal because these are medications that
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: we swallow and put into our body. Do these kinds
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: of spread pricing and rebates exist for generic drugs as well. Yeah,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: and in the case of in the case of the
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg article yesterday, um, that was a generic drug and
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: that that's a common fallacy to you that all of
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: you know. Specialty drugs certainly get the focus. But the
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: amount of profit on some of these generic drugs is
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: astronomical when you look at it percentage wise, and this
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: can occur for medicaid as well as for Medicare patients.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, yes, all all facets. There may be
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: variations of how it's played, how the game's played, but Medicare,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Medicaid commercial, Uh, employer, it's it's it's all there. Wow,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: all right, Well, thanks very much for being here. Michael Ray, founder,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: chief executive of our ex Savings Solutions based in Overland Park, Kansas.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Much appreciate it. Thanks for coming in. Get ready for
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: some new colors Midnight blue, white, black stone and product
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: red leather cases will be in saddle brown, tope, black
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: end product Read this is this is the shopping channel
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: that well, it clearly is, because of course Apple will
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: be releasing a list of new products and here to
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: tell us all about them is Mark German, a technology
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: porter for Bloomberg and he knows everything about Apple. So Mark,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: what is the okay, not everything, mostly everything? Uh, what
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: is the most important thing from this product release is
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: that the watches? Is that the iPhone? Is it the nomenclature.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: The most interesting thing, of course, will be the phones.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Three new phones will be this new strategy where it's
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: all about the iPhones ten. So last year, obviously the
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: ten a thousand dollars came in one screen size, a
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: pretty standard array of features and skews. This come around,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: they're going bigger and cheaper, so they'll be an update
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: the iPhone tent from last year. Faster processor, better camera,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: will be called the ten as. Then they're going to
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: go even higher end with the tenn S max ventually
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: a bigger, faster version of the iPhone ten biggest screen
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: they've ever put into a phone. It would be one
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: of the biggest phone screens on the market, and they're
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: going to keep it with a phone that we're going
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: to call the ten are just gonna look like the
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: iPhone tends be a little bit bigger but cost a
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: couple less. So Mark, you know, we're talking a lot
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: about Apple and we are sort of heralding its products
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: with a lot of fanfare, with images both verbal and
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: visual throughout the day on media across the board. How
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: much does this matter from a business perspective, given the
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: fact that Apple is now a trillion dollar company a
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: major presence in US equity markets, can you just sort
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: of give us the perspective of the import of this
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: product launch. It's extraordinarily significant. Apple gets almost seventy of
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: its revenues from the products that are going to be
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: introduced today and the iPhone. Even though it generates that much,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: plus the Apple Watches that will be introduced today, it
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: generates even more long term in terms of people downloading
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: apps and different services and Apple Music and I Cloud
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: storage to them. So this is a key as it
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: gets for Apple on its long term strategy and it's
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: continued sustainability mark. There's also going to be a new
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Apple Watches, a Series four, and they're going to be
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: wider than current watches and come in a variety of colors.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Tell us about the Apple Watch. So the big news
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: on the Apple Watch today is going to be the
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: bigger screen to be able to fit more watch faces,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: more content on the screen. It will be a little
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: bit easier to read if you're glancing on it. Well,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: it's on your risk. Some new functionality on the heart
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: rate sensor, some new fitness software to automatically begin work out.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: So let's say you're on a run, or you're on
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: a treadmill or what not. To watch now will be
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: able to automatically determine that's what you're doing and start
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: recording without user intervention. I have to say I do
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: use that feature. I do have an iPhone and I
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: check how many miles I've walked at the end of
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: the day every day. Even though I question the accuracy
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: of it, I do it every single day. And the
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: number of floors that I go up him, Do you
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: do that? No, because I would need an Apple Watch
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: in order to do that. But I'm under the impression
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: market well, at least the owns the phones also have that. Yeah,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: well you need to activate that feature as well. Right,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not activating anything that measures how far I walk.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: But indeed that's connected actually to a GPS signal, isn't
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: that right? Mark um? Right? So the Apple Watches will
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: have GPS, as they've had the last couple of years,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: and the GPS makes it more accurate. Obviously, the phone
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: has GPS as well, and you can set up how
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: many floors you've walked or your distance walks using a
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: special health sensor that is in the phone, Tobinus the
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: GPS as well. So, Mark, we have heard from Apple
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: that they're expecting to raise prices on certain products on
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: the heels of the escalating tariff battle with China between
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: the US and China, And I'm just wondering, do you
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: think that they're going to talk about that at all,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: especially as they unveil the prices of some of these products.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Right I think that the tariffs are still in the
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: proposal stages. They haven't been implemented yet, and if we
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: were to see any price increases due to that, it's
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: not something that we would see until probably a year
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: from now. It's not something that would go into effect
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: today or be talked about today, Mark, as far as
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: those tariffs are concerned. But they also include tariffs on
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: chips that are manufactured in China. You know, that's that's
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: a good question right now. The tariff listing that Apple
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: cantacted by has to do with the Apple wash itself,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the air pods, the mac Minie, the desktopping fear that
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: hasn't been updated in four years, but they're planning on
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: updating it in October, and a few other various successories
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: like leather cases and chargers. So nothing on the chip
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: side for now. So Mark Irman, we're gonna let you
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: go because you have a crazy day ahead of you.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: This is like the super Bowl of your beat, I imagine,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: So I will let you. I will let you get
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: to Mark Ouman, thank you so much for joining us.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Mark Rman covers all things Apple here at Bloomberg, and
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: he uh also in general covers other tech tub but
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: really it's all Apple, all the time. Our next guest
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: hunts for value. Marty Sass is the chairman and the
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: chief executive officer of m D. Sass Investors Services, helping
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: to manage over seven billion dollars. Marty Sass, Welcome to
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: the program. How do you define value right now? Um? Hi,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: pim um. We're really looking at you know, there's there's
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: been a tremendous divergence between growth stocks, you know, particularly
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: the things and stocks that are trading at deep discounts
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: from the market high value stocks, um. Now, the ones
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: that we're interested in, which I'm happy to discuss with you.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: PIM are companies that will show exceptional learnings growth yet
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: are trading at steep discounts from the p ratio of
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the s MP. So let's just jump right in there.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Which stocks are you talking about that you like? Well,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: let me give you five names that I think are
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: particularly compelling now. One is a cruise line, Norwegian Cruise
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Lines similar in c LH trades around fifty three dollars
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: a year UH, nine point four times our estimate of
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: nineteen earnings UM two thousand nineteen earnings UH, with rapid
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: growth because of robust worldwide demand for cruising, higher pricing
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: and games and occupancy. A second name would be in
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: the home building area UM. Home builders have been out
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: of favor because of higher mortgage rates, but despite the
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: rising rates UH LENAR, which is our pick. There a
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: symbol Elien trading around UH. It's now the number one
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: home builder in the United States, having just acquired in
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: February call Atlantic UM. They are outperforming consensus earnings and
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: order growth there or orders organically or up twelve UM,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: and they're seeing great strength and the ability to raise
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: prices because of short new housing supply. Due to a
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: lack of available labor and land, and so they're able
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: to pass through higher input costs with higher prices. Marty like,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: can we just use both of those as examples, because
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: I want to get your your thinking a little bit
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: behind the headline, which is how did you come to
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: find Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings? Was there a screen that
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: you ran or did you meet someone or how did
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: you find that particular company? And then once you did,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: what kind of follow up did you do in order
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: to make the decision that yes, this was the stock
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: you wanted to buy? Okay um him For years we've
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: been following the cruise line stocks and and we like
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: the group because and there's really three names. There is Carnival,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: which is number one, Royal which is number two, UH
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: and and UH Norwegian which is number three. UM and
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: the reason we like the group is that UH and
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: So we like all the stocks about but Norwegians our favorite.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: UM is that the penetration of cruising is very low
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: around the world. Even here in the United States, where
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: it's very popular, Only of Americans have ever been on
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: a cruise. When you go to China, it's a fraction
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: of that. And it's growing extremely rapidly and all around
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: the world. Cruising is an increasingly favorite form of vacationing
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: and and try. Um. You know, it's relatively inexpensive, um
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: and and and um, it's gotten increasingly attractive in terms
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: of the new ships. And by the way, New Norwegian
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: has the newest ships, and the reason Norwegian out of
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: the three is it's got the lowest multiple and the
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: highest projected growth. Marty, as you have a thesis like
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: this that you see a fundamental opportunity and sort of
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: go back to Pim's point about what is value? How
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: much do you have to care about what's going on
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: in the rest of the world, the sort of big
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: macro drivers that the stars of the two thousand and
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: eight crash have failed to understand and have gotten wrong
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: again and again. I mean, how do you have to
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: sort of keep an eye on the big picture while
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: coming up with specific idios and idiosyncratic thess. Well, well,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: we do have to keep an eye on the big picture. Um.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: You know, these these are global companies that you know
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: they are they cruise the around the world. One of
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: the advantages they have UM, by the way, as they're
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: just applied to the cruise line industry for a moment
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: is that they can move the ships wherever they want.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: So if it's weak in a particular market, they just
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: moved the ships to a different location where it's stronger
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: and the demand is stronger. So there's a lot of
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: flexibility and very savvy management here. Uh So, but nevertheless,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: you know, we've got to be aware of what's going
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: on in the world. I was with the CEO of
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: the major company does business in China just yesterday over
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: lunch and got a pretty close picture of what's going
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: on in there. Uh. It's an important potential market, uh,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: for the cruise lines and for other industries. So, yes,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: the macro is important, but also even more important to
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: us is what's going on in these individual companies. So
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: we take both into account. Marty. When you hear investors
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: speak of out the age of the bull market, what
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: do you think, um, One thing that that I've always
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: found to be true is, you know, I've been in
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: the business for a long time, many decades, having started
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty three, and seeing a lot of markets. Uh.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: In markets don't die of old age, uh it really,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: you know, we saw a very long bull market this
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: one has just exceeded that one. But from two thousand
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: two to two thousand seven, Uh, you know, we had
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: a hundred and fourteen months bull market UM. It was
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: up a hundred four hundred and seventeen percent during that period.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: By the way, this bull market has just to pass
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: that record. So it's now the longest. It's up three
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: uh since the March two thousand and nine low. Uh,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: But you know it's been um supported largely by strong
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: earnings UM, some multiple expansion, and some expected growth. But
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: the book has been you know, seventy over seventy of
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: the gain has been due to strong earning. Just we
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: just have a better minute left. No, no worries, We
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: just have a better minute left. And I do want
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: to get this question in. I was just looking at
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Norwegian among the cruise liners, and the shares are a
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: little bit down on the year, basically flat, even though
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: the SMP five dred is up more than nine. When
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: do you decide it is time to sell? I'll give
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: you twenty seconds. We said, we said, we said, we
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: said a price target based on what we think is
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: a realistic valuation. Uh So, in the case of Norwegian,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: based on what we think is fair value. We think
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: there's upside in the stock from its current level of
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: fifty three to our target of seventy five. All right,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: so you still are hanging in there and see a
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: lot more upside. Marty says, We're gonna have to leave
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: it there, unfortunately, but you can come back and explain
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: more because it's really interesting. Chairman and chief executive off
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: sort of m d sas investor services, uh, coming to
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: us from New York and definitely an interesting kind of idea.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: On a day like this is people reflect on what
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: happened a decade ago. The macro trends don't seem to
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: be driving the world at least today, just as much
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg. There are a lot of headlines about
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: brexit PIM. I don't know about you, but when I
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: see them sometimes I think, another incremental move? Do we
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: have to pay attention to this one? Um? Do you
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: think that's who? Sometimes come on? True confession? I gotta say,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that I find so
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: amazing about it is the change in tone from when
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: the United Kingdom joined the European Union and the tone
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: that exists currently trying to exit the European So the contrast,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: to me is is always something that I'm thinking about
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: when I see those headlines and the contrast between the
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: persimism that we have seen and perhaps a little bit
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: of optimism that there will actually be a Brexit deal.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Let's bring in Timorros. He actually knows what's going on
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: a little bit more directly, UK reporter covering government politics
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: and of course Brexit for Bloomberg News in London. Tim,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. So it
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: seems like there is a move that is being made
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: towards signing some sort of Brexit deal that is really
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: sort of a crucial moment that isn't just incremental. Can
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: you tell us more? That's right? Well, if this happens,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: and it's not been completely nailed down as an idea yet,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: what would what would happen would be that the UK
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: and the European Union would sit down all the twenty
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: seven leaders plus Theresa May from the UK would sit
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: down in the middle of November in Brussels probably and
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: sign the deal. But before we get to that point,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: there has to be a deal obviously, and there's still
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: quite a lot that needs to be done there. The
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: biggest issue that's outstanding is still how to avoid security
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and police checks and customs checks at the border between
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Ireland and the UK. That is that's been deadlocked for
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: months and it's still deadlocked. Tim Ross, what is the
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: future of Teresa May, the British Prime Minister. Well, there's
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: a good question. If I had the answer to that,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I think I'd be a rich man by now. But
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: that we've had we've had a lot of we've had
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of speculations in the last twenty four hours
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: that her own Conservative Party members of Parliament are plotting
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: to get rid of her and replace her with somebody
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: who will pursue a harder form of Brexit and more
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: decisive split between the UK and the EU. What she's
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: proposing is actually to keep very close ties, certainly for
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: trading goods with the European Union. But plenty of people
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: in her party, like Boris Johnson, the former Foreign Secretary,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: wants a much cleaner break, and some of them last
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: night spent a couple of hours discussing exactly how to
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: go about replacing her and getting rid of her. Now.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: The next month is the Conservative Party's Convention. They have
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: an annual conference um and that is a moment of
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: some danger for the Prime Minister where she will have
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: to face her own team, her own side and persuade
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: them to keep her. So I'm trying to just understand
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: the time frame here, because this potential breakthrough may happen
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: in November. What happens if Britain is unable to come
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: to some agreement with how Brexit will be enacted within
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: the next twelve months, well, it's got to happen before then. Ideally,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, so Brexit is due to happen on the
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: twenty ninth of March. That doesn't leave very much time
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: at all for things to go wrong in November. The
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: reason for that is that once there is a deal,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: that the two negotiating teams have signed, that deal then
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: have to get through both the UK Parliament, and we
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: know how difficult that is and also the European Parliament.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: And if those two parliaments don't agree that the terms
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: of that divorce deal are acceptable, then the whole process
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: gets held up again. And as I say, under European law,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: as things stand, the UK will automatically leave the European
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Union on March to twenty ninth, even if there's no deal,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: so it's got to happen quite quickly. The future of
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: of these Brexit negotiations depend not only on who's negotiating
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: from the UK, but also what the negotiators from the
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: European Union one. Is there any detail about any consensus
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: on their part. So we've been reporting in the last
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: two or three weeks or so that the big issues
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I was saying earlier that's still to be solved is
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: this question of the Irish border, and it's incredibly sensitive
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: because obviously, with a history of conflict on the island
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: of Ireland, nobody wants to see a return to anything
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: that could potentially split communities in the North and the
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: South from each other anymore than they already are, and
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: and certainly no one wants to return to any any
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: tensions or violence there. So they are absolutely determined to
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: sort that out. That's the European Union's priority, and the
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: UK recognizes it has to solve that issue and find
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: a solution to the border. Beyond that, there's the separate
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: issue of what the future will look like, what kind
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: of trading relationship after Brexit the UK will have with
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the European Union That looks like it will be a
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: much fuzzier, hazier, more sort of open to interpretation kind
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: of statement when the deal comes, and then the details
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: on that will have to be worked out over the
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: next couple of years after Britain has left the EU.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you very much for joining us.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Tim Ross is our UK government reporter for Bloomberg and
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: listare just looking at the pounds sterling right now, trades
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: at one thirty thirty two, a little stronger against the
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: U S starlar, but if you compare it to what
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: it was trade being at back in April down nearly ten.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: There was a story on the Bloomberg today talking about
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: how New York has surpassed London as the world's financial
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: headquarters in the wake of Brexit. But I have seen
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: conflicting studies with respect to just how much has actually
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: changed in the fortunes of London, in particular because that's
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: the most global city in the nation. But you know
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: just how much the fortunes have changed in the heels
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: of this, and of course we do have that populist
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: wave sweeping other areas, so a lot of eyes on
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: how exactly this goes down. Yes, and we'll be looking
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: forward to that November summit, if indeed it really does
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: take place. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg p m
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: L podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews at
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm on
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one before the podcast. You
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio