Latest / The Christy-Faith Show / Ep. 134 - Homeschool to Military: Enlistment, ROTC & Service Academies with Natalie Mack (Part 4 of 4)

Transcript

Ep. 134 - Homeschool to Military: Enlistment, ROTC & Service Academies with Natalie Mack (Part 4 of 4) · The Christy-Faith Show

• 0:00
  Christy-Faith: Hello. Welcome back to the show, everybody. You are catching the last episode of our four part series on homeschooling high school
• 0:10
  Natalie Mack: Yeah.
• 0:10
  Christy-Faith: With my special guest, Natalie Mack today. Today's topic is all about homeschooling on your pathway to military service, enlistment, ROTC, service academies, and more. If you're wondering what we have covered so far, the last episode was homeschooling. What we did is we separated this series into Pathway. The funny story is I was at the hair salon with dye in my hair in the salon suite on the phone, And Natalie was on the other line, and we brainstormed what we thought you guys needed to hear about homeschooling high school.
• 0:49
  And the idea was, man, there are so many different pathways, and each one does need to be thought about. So what if we just split up this series into pathway? Right. Even if your pathway is not decided, maybe you wanna listen to all of them to see what's involved in each pathway. So the very first episode that we did was on just homeschooling high school with confidence.
• 1:11
  That's where we talked about transcripts and just the general stuff and tried to do our best to empower you to do it because it is so awesome to be homeschooling high school, and it's nothing to be scared of. There's such great years to be doing at Pivotal, in my opinion. And then in episode two, we talked specifically about athletes and NCAA and what that looks like with recruitment and playing college sports. There is a particular pathway and some requirements with the NCAA for that. So that needed a whole episode in itself.
• 1:44
  Then we did the next episode on college, and that is if your student is college bound, whatever that means, it could mean dual enrollment, community college, it could mean four year college, or a dual degree program. But we talked all about that, the pros and cons, what you need to keep in mind. There are some pitfalls that we have all made that you don't need to make because we made them for you. So listen to that episode because that episode alone could save you thousands of dollars.
• 2:13
  Natalie Mack: It could. Yeah.
• 2:14
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. In, classes that don't transfer. And today's episode is about military service. I have been very excited about this one, Natalie, because this is an area that I don't know much about. I know you run a nonprofit in the military space.
• 2:40
  You were a military family. Yeah. But first, if you don't mind, in case this is the only episode of the series a family will be listening to, may I please read your bio Yeah. One last time? Okay.
• 2:51
  Yes. So as you guys probably know, I don't invite everybody on my podcast, and I particularly don't invite just anybody into Thrive Homeschool Community to teach master classes. And Natalie Mack, she has come in and taught a beautiful master class in Thrive Homeschool Community. She is also a guest mentor at times in Thrive Homeschool Community. We have an office hours every month just for homeschooling teenagers, and she comes in and is a guest sometimes in there with Marnie Love.
• 3:25
  And she is just, honestly, such a sweet person, so wise, so smart
• 3:31
  Natalie Mack: Oh.
• 3:31
  Christy-Faith: And very qualified to be advising you and me in this homeschool process of high schooling. So Natalie Mack, master of education is the founder of Homeschool Natalie Mack and a homeschool consultant. Also a TEDx speaker and author of a 101 tips for homeschoolers. With more than twenty three years of homeschooling experience, she helps families confidently navigate high school, transcripts, college admissions, military service, and other post secondary pathways. Natalie is passionate about equipping parents with practical guidance, so they can make informed decisions.
• 4:10
  And I gotta say, reflecting on the last three episodes that you've done here, Natalie, I think that's what you've done beautifully is provided the information parents need in order to make the best decisions for their family. Thank you. And you're very gifted at that. So today is all about military. So maybe you should start with a little bit of the background for your family military and anything else you think would be pertinent to today's episode before I ask you the first question.
• 4:38
  Natalie Mack: Yes. Thanks so much, Christy. I'm excited to be here for our episode four. And so a little background about me. We are a retired military family.
• 4:48
  My husband served as a navy chaplain. His total service was thirty four years. Started out right after ROTC in college, and we'll talk briefly about that today. And he started out as an army, officer, detailed infantry. We were in the Mojave Desert for three years.
• 5:05
  I joined him for he was there for a year, and I think I joined him for the last two because I went back after college to work on my master's in counseling and joined him out there in the Mojave Desert, one of the best assignments ever. And I know people are like, really? In the desert? Yeah. It was phenomenal.
• 5:22
  And it was us as just, you know, this new couple figuring it out. We were involved in lay ministry, and then we had our first child there. So it's just was sweet time. Right? And then we, moved on to other destinations.
• 5:37
  Eventually, God called him to the ministry, confirmed that calling through me because at the time we were living in Germany, and we were loving life and travel and all the things of living in Europe. And God confirmed his calling through me, so maybe we'll talk at some point about that. And, he got out of the military as an officer in the army and went to seminary. We moved back from Germany to The States, stayed with his parents for a bit, got our feet settled outside of military life. And then later, when he finished his seminary degree, we said, oh, we miss military life.
• 6:16
  Like, we had had more kids. It just wasn't the same. We wanted community. We wanted all the things that the military provided. So we went back in as a navy chaplain, and so there's a whole lot more detail I'm leaving out for the sake of time.
• 6:30
  And, we homeschool within the military community, our five children, 23, started right before nine eleven in 2001, a few weeks before nine eleven, and have loved the journey. And all of our children's paths have been totally unique and different. And as a result of the military service, I am very pro military. I will say I am I am aware and have lived the sacrifices of military life. So if you're a military spouse or maybe veteran spouse now and you're thinking, oh, it was it's military.
• 7:06
  Oh, no. But it benefited our family. We were really blessed to serve our country. We were blessed to serve in the military. The experiences our kids have from travel and exposure and living overseas a couple of times, it was good for us, and it was good within the homeschool community because there's such a large community of families in the military who homeschool, and it was a journey that we finally love and are still passionate about.
• 7:35
  So I don't want anyone to think the hardships don't exist. They're it's it's hard. You sacrifice a lot. But for us, it was good. But for the spouse who's in the thick of it and it's hard right now, maybe, I hear you and I'm not I'm not minimizing the sacrifice.
• 7:52
  So in a nutshell, I speak on homeschooling the military service. I have an amazing relationship with all of the branches now and I'm super excited and thankful for that. They consider me an honorary recruiter and I'm passionate about yeah, making sure I've gone to what what they call educator workshops. So I just got back about a month ago from Goodfellow Air Force Base in Texas in this little town called San Angelo. And I was invited there on behalf of the United States Air Force Recruiting Command.
• 8:26
  I've done the army's one at Fort Carson, Colorado. The navy, I was invited to fly out on the Nimitz, but I had another commitment, and I had to say I know. And I've done the marine corps, which at Paris Island, South Carolina in the heat being a literally, they they put you through as if you are a marine and Oh, no. It is so but they were all amazing experiences
• 8:53
  Christy-Faith: that, you know,
• 8:54
  Natalie Mack: for me to run and go, you know, for that wall, you know, and my husband had said, please don't try to get over any walls. Don't jump out of any planes. Don't do anything because he knows my capacity, and I'm not gifted in that area. But Yes. I didn't listen, so I did try to wall, and that wasn't the best experience.
• 9:13
  But
• 9:13
  Christy-Faith: It sound you sound like a homeschool mom. We don't listen. Yeah. You can't I feel like with homeschool moms, in one in one sense, we're like, don't tell me what to do. Right.
• 9:24
  Then we're over here, like, at the homeschool conferences saying, but please, can you tell me
• 9:28
  Natalie Mack: exactly Right. What to Right. Yeah.
• 9:32
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. Yeah. My kids joke. We used to watch we used to watch those shows where those survivor shows where people can tap out, and then they come and get them. And my kids would joke, mom, you'd tap out after your first bug bite.
• 9:46
  Right.
• 9:48
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. They probably were like, okay. But no. They they they didn't require you. You could say no.
• 9:54
  It wasn't a mandatory thing. They weren't trying to hurt you. They know you were not a marine.
• 9:58
  Christy-Faith: Right. Okay. Wait. So let me ask you. Are you considered a recruiter for the homeschooling community?
• 10:05
  Is that what they consider you?
• 10:07
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. An honorary one. Do you know? I I make no decisions, you all. I make no But I can speak authentically from experience.
• 10:17
  I also can speak authentically from having, like, really gone deep dive into the different branches. And I'm passionate about this being an option for homeschool graduates. And I know that there's a lot of unknown about this whole career path, and I can see it is myself included. It is not a a second option, you all. I will put that out.
• 10:42
  The military is like an amazing career option. It's not a fallback. And they don't
• 10:49
  Christy-Faith: love that.
• 10:49
  Natalie Mack: They don't want fallback people anymore. Your uncle Bob who maybe enlisted because he was barely passing high school. I mean, it does shake people up. It does. But the military is not looking for uncle Bob barely passing high school.
• 11:07
  They're really looking for uncle Bob who's succeeding well in high school, and they're really even looking for homeschool students because we do so well in the areas that they are really looking for. So we'll dig into that if we get to the questions, though.
• 11:20
  Christy-Faith: My guess is they want grit, which is something that's in our bones.
• 11:24
  Natalie Mack: They want grit, and they want they want strong students, actually.
• 11:28
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. I'll
• 11:28
  Natalie Mack: we'll talk. We'll talk. Okay. Because I love it.
• 11:30
  Christy-Faith: So let me ask you my first question here. It's a great broad first one, I think. What are the military pathways available to homeschool graduates?
• 11:39
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. So when you hear military, you may think enlistment. And that's honorable, and that is a path that many embark upon. Enlistment into a particular branch. It's certainly one pathway, but it's not the only one.
• 11:54
  So we know a student can enlist after graduation. Right? But a student might say, I wanna go attend college. I wanna have a a college experience. I wanna be on a campus, and I wanna, you know, join clubs and all the things that maybe they are looking for in a college campus.
• 12:09
  But they also say, I would like to go into military service after I complete college. So then you might wanna look at an option that's called ROTC, Reserve Officer Training Corps, which offers potential scholarship money to students to cover their tuition, right? While they're matriculating through the colleges. So they still have to get admitted to the college, right? But they can also apply for an ROTC scholarship that can help pay for that potentially.
• 12:39
  And eventually you have the potential to become a commission officer, which is different than enlistment. So it really just depends. Now what else exists out there? Because those are two pathways, enlistment, ROTC. What's the third pathway?
• 12:53
  A third pathway is something called military service academies, MSAs, because you gotta use acronyms in the military. Right? So MSAs. So what are those? Have you heard of West Point?
• 13:05
  That's the Army Service Academy. Have you heard of the US Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs? The Navy Academy, US Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. And then there's the Merchant Marine Academy, right, for the Merchant Marines. So there are these amazing service academies that exist.
• 13:25
  So that's the third option. What's the fourth option? Something called MSCs or military service colleges. You might have heard of Virginia Military Institute. Right?
• 13:34
  VMI. That is a military college. There's two types. There's senior military colleges, and there's junior military colleges. Senior military colleges, again, are like VMI, University of North Georgia.
• 13:47
  There's a few of them. They offer a four year opportunity on a campus, on their campus, with some potential to actually then go into service, active duty service, or you don't have to. So they come with that option. A service academy that I mentioned as the third option, which was like West Point, right? You are committing, they're gonna, you get accepted, you have some payback time.
• 14:13
  You will go into commission officer status. But for a service college, you have the choice and you can make that decision. So it's less intensive than a service academy, but it's still a strong avenue for a lot of students who kinda want a college experience and also want the military potential opportunity after. And then another option would I'll put together would be National Guard and Reserves. That works for a lot of families whose student is saying, maybe they wanna go to the community college, so they wanna stay local.
• 14:50
  They wanna live at home, not have a lot of expenses, whatever. Maybe mom and dad may charge something. Right? But they have a job that they wanna do. So they don't really want to go into active duty service of where they're gonna have to be constantly relocating or what we call PCS, which is permanent changes station.
• 15:11
  So they'll do National Guard and they'll take advantage of their academic and financial benefits that they can get through the National Guard or reserves. And we know the National Guard serves at the state level, so they are called up. We know the president has the ability to call the National Guard up for certain situations. So that's an option there. The reserves fits in that whole that whole option as well.
• 15:37
  So I just kind of like families because I have families who say my son or my daughter wants to serve. And they say, you know, well, I'm concerned about the enlistment process. And I'm like, well, did you know that there are other options? And I just had this mom reach out to me and say, can you tell I had no idea what else? What else exists?
• 15:58
  Right? So it's important again, like we talked about from episode one, what? Keeping all your options, keeping the doors open, getting the information your student needs so they can know what they do. If they choose a branch that isn't quite what they want, people transfer from branches too.
• 16:15
  Christy-Faith: Is that right? I never yeah. I would say, I didn't realize that that you were allowed to. I in in my lack of knowledge, I just viewed it as you kinda sign your life away Yeah. For a certain amount of time, and that's not the case at all.
• 16:32
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. You can you there are processes for you to transition to another branch. You have to go through the process. You don't just say, oh, I wanna be in the army today. This process is there, and we don't have enough time to go into them.
• 16:44
  But definitely, just so families know that it's not all or nothing. And it's an amazing option for so many students. The benefits are phenomenal. Financial benefits, definitely medical coverage is one. Just to be part of a purpose, maybe bigger than yourself.
• 17:03
  Sometimes young people need that, the opportunity to become a leader, definitely in the military, whether you enlist or officer, you're gonna definitely be compelled into leadership. So it's really a strong path. And again, it's not a back option. It's not a second option. It's not a, well, we don't know what else to do, so we're just gonna go into the military.
• 17:22
  So definitely they want students and they have seen students do really well from the homeschool community. So they have really started to pursue homeschool graduates.
• 17:34
  Christy-Faith: Yes. Well, I am seeing them have booths at the homeschool conferences and conventions. Yeah. And the professionalism and is is just remarkable. We one of the big conferences, our booth was right next to theirs.
• 17:49
  Yes. And we were beyond impressed.
• 17:52
  Natalie Mack: It's been
• 17:52
  Christy-Faith: phenomenal. They had wonderful things to say about homeschoolers in a way, because a lot of people say great things about homeschoolers, and you know they don't really know us.
• 18:01
  Natalie Mack: Yes.
• 18:02
  Christy-Faith: No. No. No. No. They they in fact, a lot of those people that go to the homeschool conferences are homeschoolers themselves.
• 18:09
  Yeah. So Yeah. That's really cool. Well, let's go let's go to homeschooling then. Are homeschool graduates treated differently when they enlist?
• 18:16
  And what should families understand before talking to a recruiter? Homeschooling for kids means I'm juggling roughly 24 different subjects at any given time. And a few years back during a particularly busy season, I hit a wall. I needed some serious help with the heavy lifting of teaching everything myself and managing schedules for four kids. That's when I found BJU Press Homeschool, and we've loved their courses so much that we keep going back.
• 18:41
  Some families use them for everything and love it. I use them for certain subjects. Either way, total mental load relief. Here's what my mornings look like now. Let us take science for example.
• 18:51
  My three girls do that one together. They fire up the lesson taught by a real teacher, well produced, actual teaching, not just click through busy work. And I sit there with my coffee, watch them, or make breakfast, and we discuss the big ideas. Every BJU Press homeschool course prioritizes critical thinking, a biblical worldview, and hands on learning. I just guide the conversation and pick which activity or pages or projects we want to do, and everything's already planned out.
• 19:15
  They have an online platform included for you called the Homeschool Hub, and it keeps everyone on track, both me and my kids, without micromanaging or nagging. And when I have questions, I call my HomeWorks consultant. These people don't just help you get set up. They're available for you whenever you need them. It's like having a homeschool expert on speed dial.
• 19:33
  Go to bjupresshomeschool.com or click the link in the show notes to find out more. I wanna talk about homeschool math for a minute, specifically CTC math, who I'm so glad is sponsoring this episode because you need to know about them. I'm picky about curriculum, and there are a few subjects I won't compromise on, and math is on the top of that list. CTC math is what I use with all four of my kids, and it's an excellent k to 12 math program. Rigorous, thorough, comprehensive, everything I want my kids to have in their math education.
• 20:07
  But without all the stress, the tears, and me having to learn long division all over again. Here's what happens at our house now. My kids log in. A real math teacher walks them through the lesson four to nine minutes clear step by step. They do their lesson and finish up with practice problems.
• 20:23
  The program grades them, and I don't have to remember how to do fractions with unlike denominators or where exactly they left off last week, which means I get to be the mom in the room. I can sit nearby, listen in, encourage, fold the laundry, and watch math get done beautifully. Easier on mom? No sacrifice on academics? Yes, please.
• 20:45
  Join me and tens of thousands of homeschool families using CTC math for their go to math curriculum. Links in the show notes. Grab your free trial today, and you'll see why we love it for our kids. Are homeschool graduates treated differently when they enlist? And what should families understand before talking to a recruiter?
• 21:05
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. Families should know first off that homeschool graduates absolutely can enlist in the United States military. They actually can. And so that's a myth that is pervasive. And one of the reasons I'm passionate about the relationships that I've forged with the different branches is because I really want to eradicate this myth.
• 21:26
  I really wanna work hard. So now families tag me on social media and say, hey. Can you help? Natalie, can you help? And so the reason you see a lot of I will and I will say this honestly, that you see the military branches increasingly at conventions is in large measure to the work I've done, and I will own it, and and I'm thankful for it.
• 21:46
  Yeah. And so matter of fact, I was just helping California with their upcoming event with CHIA. And so they state orgs have been reaching out to me periodically and saying, hey. How can we get representation from these different branches? And I've been blessed to be able to do training with them virtually and in person.
• 22:04
  They've flown me to do training to their recruiters, to their education service specialists. Those are the ones who show up at the convention so that they can be homeschool friendly and knowledgeable and respectful. And I want them to know how qualified homeschool graduates are. So we are talking to them. And I also say and parents, you can you can pay me later for this.
• 22:26
  Can pay me later for this. I'll I'll tell you how to make some some deposits. I tell them, please don't have conversations with homeschooled students without the parents involved. Respect what homeschooling is. We have conversations with our students.
• 22:41
  We make decisions together as a family, ideally. Right? No no perfect homeschool or some just putting that out there. Mhmm. But, ideally, that's what we aim for, right, as homeschool parents.
• 22:51
  So please understand that you wanna know where the parents are. You wanna have invite them into the conversation. And so these are things that I will say that about talking to a recruiter, these are things that we I'm already foundationally working really hard. Are we where I want it to be? No.
• 23:08
  But we're getting there and I'm thankful that they consider me this honorary recruiter to be able to really like help them connect to the homeschool students and help the homeschool students connect to them. And so I can actually reach out to our recruiting command and say, like, to the army, I have text numbers, emails, and they know matter of fact, Air Force has designated a homeschool. Like, she's the outreach coordinator that I work with to say, hey. We need a recruiter here. This person wants ROTC information.
• 23:40
  So it's like a thing, and I'm so thankful that they trust me to do that. So I want homeschool I want parents to know that if there used to be where homeschool graduates were not, let me back up, there are tiers, tier one, two, and three in terms of enlistment tiers. And so there used to be a time when homeschool graduates were tier two. That means that you were on par with a GED student. But because of a lot of work with HSLDA and getting a change in the NDAA, which is the National Defense Authorization Act many years ago, homeschool students are now tier one.
• 24:17
  So if you have any issues with enlistment or anything, reference military service, if it's a recruiter saying, hey, we don't accept homeschool graduates, you can definitely reach out to HSLDA. They'll they'll jump on that. You can reach out to me because I can I'll go right to headquarters command and say what's going on.
• 24:38
  Christy-Faith: Yes. So Yeah. Because it sounds like it sounds like and you hear this a lot. And the reason why Natalie is mentioning HSLDA is
• 24:45
  Natalie Mack: it Sorry.
• 24:45
  Christy-Faith: It that starts to sound like a discrimination issue. And that does happen with homeschools Mhmm. Homeschoolers. In fact, most I would say that a large majority of the issues that we have with local school districts or school districts asking for things that legally they're not allowed to ask for Yes. It's more ignorance Yes.
• 25:06
  Than anything else. And they think they understand homeschool law, and they don't. And so that's great that in addition to fighting for our rights on the state level, that the HSLDA is also involved in fighting for homeschooling rights
• 25:20
  Natalie Mack: Yeah.
• 25:20
  Christy-Faith: In the military so that we can be appropriately recognized. That's great.
• 25:24
  Natalie Mack: Oh, yeah. They've been doing the work for a long time. Because of my personal military experience and and and homeschooling together, merge those together, have really worked for the branches to be able to say, like, oh, wow. So this recent time in Texas, I was the only homeschooled there. I was considered a VIP.
• 25:43
  And, you know
• 25:44
  Christy-Faith: yeah. Well, you are. You are a VIP.
• 25:46
  Natalie Mack: Thank Thank you. Thank you. You are too. Like, high five you and fist puppy. So yeah.
• 25:52
  So definitely know that your student is more than qualified. Make sure you keep your homeschool documentation tight. They will need probably proof of you actually homeschooling. And that came a lot in measure around COVID where there were some things that were occurring that people who were not really homeschooling, blah blah blah. I won't get into that.
• 26:14
  That's not my space to speak on, but I will say, don't be surprised if they say, hey, do you have a notification of intent confirmation like that you get back if your state requires that? Whatever documentation your state requires, if you're in a state that doesn't require anything that you submit and they don't give you any like, hey, I know you're homeschooling back, then you will probably have to sign a, write a notarized statement. They just wanna make sure because the pathways so they wanna keep everything clear. But, yeah, definitely, you want to in the transcript, you will need a transcript.
• 26:46
  Christy-Faith: So Yeah. So actually
• 26:48
  Natalie Mack: transcripts people. Right? Christy- Yes. So top of that.
• 26:51
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. So I want to encourage you listening because, yes, this does involve making sure that you're crossing your t's and dotting your i's. Make sure that you listen to the first episode in this series. That is where we talked about making sure you have a professional homeschool transcript for your student. We don't need to talk about that now because this is military focused.
• 27:11
  Right. But please do, if you're listening to this episode, please also listen to episode one where we talked about transcripts
• 27:18
  Natalie Mack: Yes.
• 27:19
  Christy-Faith: And things like that. And then I love that. And number two, when you are talking to a recruiter, make sure that they understand the tier that is appropriate, which should be tier one
• 27:28
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 27:28
  Christy-Faith: For homeschoolers, which I love.
• 27:30
  Natalie Mack: And they should know that, but they may not. Just reach out. You can reach out to me. Reach out to HSLDA because it's really just a quick fix. It's really just they just don't know.
• 27:42
  Recruiting is high. It's a it's it's a hard job, and there's a lot of demand. I I've been around recruiters and I their families. It's hard. Right?
• 27:52
  Recruiting work is hard, and families don't see the recruiters too frequently. There's a need. We are The US. Right? We need a strong military.
• 28:02
  So recruiters have an amazing responsibility.
• 28:06
  Christy-Faith: Okay. So before we move on to the next thing, if you're new here and you're already a fan of the show, one of the things that helps our show reach far and wide is your engagement. And what I mean by that is liking, subscribing, commenting, sending to friends. What it does is it tells those little robots behind the screen that this show is worth listening to. And then the show gets pushed out and it reaches homeschooling moms everywhere or maybe homeschool curious moms that are scared to start.
• 28:32
  So if you haven't already, please engage in some way. We thank you so much for that. It's just a small thing that you can do in the fifteen seconds that is taking me to talk right now, but it is not small to us. We appreciate it so much. We are incredibly thankful.
• 28:46
  Please So go ahead and do that right now while you're listening. So interestingly, let's talk about the ASVAB. Yes. Okay. So I've talked to the ASVAB people at conferences.
• 28:57
  So I was curious about them, and they have shared with me that they're not just for future military. And I I have so many more questions about this. Now first off, what is the ASVAB? Because it has to do with career exploration, not necessarily future military service. So let's talk about what is the ASVAB.
• 29:19
  Yes. And then what role does it play for homeschooling students, and should it only should students who are only pursuing military futures take the ASVAB, or is it for everybody? I I can't wait to hear your answer. Yeah. This is a question that I've been asking myself for about a year.
• 29:36
  Natalie Mack: Okay. Let's break it down. I'm not talking about the ASVAB and ASVAB CEP. Okay. So let's break down ASVAB.
• 29:43
  A s, v as in Victor, a and b as in boy. Right? That's ASVAB. Armed services vocational aptitude battery. That's what that stands for.
• 29:55
  Now we're gonna talk about the ASVAB, so hold that in one part of your mind. Right? Okay. And now let's add also something called the ASVAB Career Exploration Program known as the ASVAB SEP or ASVAB CEP. Okay.
• 30:11
  What's the difference between those two? Not a lot, but then yes, something. Okay. So the ASVAB itself, armed services vocational aptitude battery is a test that's used for the military. Right?
• 30:25
  It's part of the enlistment process. So and your performance on the ASVAB can affect like your eligibility to go into military service because there are minimum scores. You need to meet at least that. The higher you score, the more opportunities you have for like your job, which is called an MOS or military occupational specialty. So that determines a whole lot.
• 30:50
  You cannot go past go if you don't take the ASVAB. It is required, and you need to score a certain minimal and higher. Okay? So embedded in this whole thing called the ASVAB career exploration program is the actual ASVAB that I just described. But it also is served this purpose for the ASVAB SEP is career exploration.
• 31:16
  And so under that, anybody who is tenth grade to, like, age 23 can take this ASVAB career exploration program, and they can just benefit from what it reveals about their best career path. It's career exploration. It's a free test, and it's an amazing opportunity. Now I came upon this because my husband was an officer, so he didn't go the enlistment path. He didn't take the ASVAB.
• 31:48
  But I will say, how did I come into this? With my engagements with the military, I started to say, oh, I don't see anybody in the homeschool community taking this. Like, what's going on? How do we have access to this actual opportunity, this free career exploration? And so I set up two here in our local Northern Virginia area in the past couple of years where we had homeschoolers sign up and come, and they had opportunity to take the ASVAB CEP.
• 32:16
  I worked with our local recruiting and all, and I won't throw out any more acronyms if I can help it. But I worked with the higher ups with the ASVAB program itself, and we had two different locations where we hosted this. And I do work with state orgs and homeschool communities to connect them to the ASVAB program if they wanna bring that opportunity to their co op or if they wanna bring that opportunity to state org. Like so I've had worked with them
• 32:43
  Christy-Faith: to do that. But I can hear the homeschoolers now saying, is it the government that's gonna steal information about my kid? Can you No. Clarify? And also, it's it's kinda like a skills test.
• 32:54
  What are your what are your talents? Right? Is that what it is?
• 32:58
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. Yeah. So the so the ASVAB itself is measuring a lot of different, like, math, technical skills, science, things like that. Because the military has become highly technical, and hence, you probably had conversations like with maybe the navy where they're looking at nukes and submarines and all these things where they need these really smart people. Right?
• 33:18
  When I was with the air force at Goodfellow, wow, I went into and talked to these students who were like amazingly gifted students that they literally needed for certain kinds of jobs that I won't say, but you will need those. So basically, yes, that is what the ASVAB itself is. But then the career exploration has questions that really will come up with an answer to guide families into what what type of career their student would do well in, and it's free. And so, no, you don't have to worry. I don't worry, and I don't see any reason for families to be concerned about where this information is going because it's your private information.
• 33:58
  Matter of fact, when I help organizations like state org set this up, what I have done is say, we're gonna choose what's called option eight. Option eight means that students scores will not be released to the military. That puts the ball in your court mom and dad, in your students court to say, I wanna know, am I gonna qualify for service? I wanna have a conversation about military service. Then you initiate that, your student initiates And at that point, your student releases those scores to the recruiter.
• 34:35
  The recruiter does not get them. If when you set up the test opportunity, you choose option eight, which I always do because as a homeschool parent myself, I want my student and us as a family to have control over those scores. And especially for a lot of families, they're looking for this free career exploration opportunity. They're not looking for military service. Their kids maybe are not.
• 34:57
  Now I have had students come in for the career exploration and they score well and they're like, Matter of fact, I was in the airport headed to some conference somewhere to speak, and this lady was like, hey. Aren't you Natalie? And I was like, yeah. And she looked familiar. Well, her student had been in one of the test opportunities I coordinated.
• 35:19
  And she said, my son is in boot camp right now with air force and loving it and doing okay. And so she was so happy, but he didn't come in wanting to serve. So you never know. But there's no pool. They don't there's no matter of fact, when you your student comes and takes this, the reason I like to work with the state orgs is I'm there I'm working on their behalf because they're typically very busy, right, managing the rest of the conference.
• 35:46
  So I'm working on their behalf to, like, meet you and the parents, help the student get saturated, have them connect their laptop charger, introduce them to the tester because I'm not the tester. They send someone for that, all that. I just am that go to person for the state org so that they can do the other things they need to do. I understand the process, I speak the language, and I didn't say this is an opportunity for your student. And so families have been really kind of slowly jumping on and realizing, okay, this is pretty cool.
• 36:18
  And then at the end when they finish taking this test, there's a post test interpretation that I'll always schedule. And that means where parents, I say parents come back, your student's finished because they can't be in there during the test, but your student's finished. Come back in and listen to what you can listen to what they're telling you about your student scores and and then take that information back home and in your homeschool time, go on a website and dig deeper. Now you have this data that can help you guide your student. Right?
• 36:52
  And there has not been one conversation about recruitment because it's not allowed for them to recruit during these tests.
• 37:00
  Christy-Faith: Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Right? That makes that makes a lot
• 37:02
  Natalie Mack: of And environment, parents.
• 37:04
  Christy-Faith: And I think that will help parents who are trepidatious that this is a yeah. I mean, yes, it it's made by the military, but it also is a tool to help us that is offered
• 37:15
  Natalie Mack: public for schools. A lot of public schools administer it. So a homeschool family could check their local public school to see if it's being offered and if they would be allowed. That varies. We know how that goes.
• 37:26
  Right? Yeah. But these state orgs are starting to bring it more and more, and so I love helping them kind of, like, get connected and bring it as well.
• 37:34
  Christy-Faith: So for the student so we talked a lot about for the student who may not be military bound. So what role does the ASVAB play for the student who is military bound?
• 37:45
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. So the ASVAB really first like I said, they have to score a minimal each branch has a minimal score. And then from that point on, the higher you score, the more opportunities you have for some of the higher, more technical opportunities. On in general, homeschoolers typically score substantially above the minimum anyway. So that's really generally just phenomenal.
• 38:10
  And the military says, wow. We didn't even have to, like they didn't have to study. Now if you have a student who says, I wanna serve in the military, and I wanna go take this opportunity. Right? Have them study.
• 38:24
  They can retake the test again, but have them study because that will up their baseline. So then they have a really solid baseline to work with to know how they can improve their score. Yes. But if you're taking it solely for career exploration, there's no studying. Just go in because it's who you are as you are right now.
• 38:43
  Mhmm. But if you are interested in enlistment, then study for it. And there are some study like, there's a program that is called March, the month of March, and the number two, success. March to success. Just Google that.
• 38:56
  It's a great program to help students prepare for the ASVAB.
• 39:00
  Christy-Faith: Prepare for it. Okay. Good. Yeah. And then maybe we'll put a link to that in the show show notes.
• 39:03
  Natalie Mack: Just know
• 39:03
  Christy-Faith: this. Prepare for the ASVAB. Exactly. This is a great site, a great resource. Yep.
• 39:08
  Now you mentioned earlier ROTC. I wanna circle back to that. Yeah. So what should homeschool families know about ROTC scholarships and participating in ROTC in college? You touched on it.
• 39:21
  Natalie Mack: Yeah.
• 39:22
  Christy-Faith: But I know there's a lot more to say there.
• 39:23
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. So I mentioned earlier that it's a potential scholarship opportunity, right, for students who
• 39:29
  Christy-Faith: Mhmm.
• 39:30
  Natalie Mack: Who maybe are looking for money to pay for college because college debt is a real thing.
• 39:35
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• 40:03
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• 40:59
  Natalie Mack: And so we don't want that. So we wanna avoid the debt as much as possible. So the ROTC option could potentially give them that scholarship opportunity. They have to apply for it and qualify for it. There are deadlines for when the window is open, so you wanna make sure you don't miss those deadlines.
• 41:16
  And then it is not only though a scholarship program, it's actually a military officer development program because depending upon your status and like your circumstances, you might get a a service obligation as a result of getting this scholarship. And so that means that you could serve, right, the military as a commissioned officer, which is phenomenal opportunity. So start early doing your research to know. Yeah. Like, think it's only the army, air force, and navy have ROTC programs on college campuses.
• 41:50
  The navy covers the navy and marine corps. So the marine corps itself doesn't have an ROTC program by itself, but it falls under the navy because the navy is oh, marines are gonna say, don't say that. But the the navy's over the marine corps, so I didn't say that. It it yeah. So and that's not the right word way to word it, but the marine corps branch itself is a segment under the navy.
• 42:17
  Okay. Yeah. So the ROTC programs are there. So do your research and see which ones your student might wanna serve in when they are applying. And you can apply to several different ones as well.
• 42:27
  That's okay too. Yeah.
• 42:28
  Christy-Faith: And at least from my experience, my friends in college who were ROTC, they they there was this one, they were always viewed as smart. You see them in their uniform.
• 42:39
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. Yes.
• 42:40
  Christy-Faith: And I remember thinking that's it's brilliant because I knew that by their commitment, which didn't seem too exorbitant, they were getting help paying for their college to do it. And Right. And they were gonna be able to graduate and then be so far this far in the military as as opposed to starting from the bottom. And Right. I think this is a really great option for a lot of families.
• 43:03
  Yes. And I know all of us are looking for ways to cut college costs.
• 43:07
  Natalie Mack: It's Right.
• 43:08
  Christy-Faith: We're getting frustrated with the rising cost of college, and then we're also losing faith in in the four year degree because we're seeing how education is changing so fast. Exactly. So but we're still in this middle phase where
• 43:23
  Natalie Mack: Yep.
• 43:24
  Christy-Faith: You know, a college degree still is a helpful thing. So, you know, you you can't go to grad you can sometimes go to a graduate school without an undergrad. It's pretty rare. You know, I've heard
• 43:34
  Natalie Mack: of Right.
• 43:35
  Christy-Faith: Nursing programs where you can go right in and things like that. But generally speaking, you do the four year before the graduate school. And so Mhmm. Mhmm. It's a I think it's a really fantastic option.
• 43:45
  I'm glad we're talking about it. So my next question is, how should a homeschool student prepare if they're interested in applying for one of The US service academies?
• 43:54
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. Start early. Start early.
• 43:57
  Christy-Faith: Start How early? Lay it on. Yeah. Lay it on.
• 44:01
  Natalie Mack: The challenge is amassing the right courses, credits, and four year high school experience that will be impressive on the application for a service academy. Okay. So that's the whole that's it in a nutshell. So that's why I say start early, ideally before high school, to know that this is the path because out the gate, ninth grade, you wanna be choosing the right classes because they need to continue to be rigorous. And Yes.
• 44:33
  It's hard to catch up, right, if you don't start out. Can you depends upon how you homeschooled, right, depends upon the courses your student. So if you didn't know your student wanna do an academy at some point, it gets just really probably very difficult to reach what is gonna be needed for your student to have in terms of courses. And the advanced placement courses are highly recommended. Dual enrollment is highly recommended for these students.
• 45:01
  You see what I mean. You're like building capacity and rigor as you go. So the earlier you know that, the better you can help your student with that. And you can have an honest conversation about you wanna go to a service academy. This is what it's gonna take.
• 45:14
  It's highly competitive. It's probably definitely as competitive as an Ivy League, and it could be in some cases maybe considered more competitive than an Ivy League. And so it is a very narrow path. Very few get selected, but homeschoolers do get selected. So do not talk yourself out.
• 45:34
  Don't allow your student to think again that they are not going to be considered competitive. There are ways. So what are you looking at? I talked about strong academics, definitely, totally strong academics, rigorous academics. Leadership is a huge piece.
• 45:51
  Leadership. So the extracurriculars become super important. So these are students with high capacity. These are students who can manage a whole lot and not only manage it, manage it well. Because when they get on that campus or the academy, it's all about managing well.
• 46:07
  Right? The academics, the physical fitness, they need the character. Military wants people of strong character. Watch your social media. Right?
• 46:16
  And the NCAA, that episode, I should have said that, watch your social media. Physical fitness, again, becomes super important. You have to pass some physical fitness tasks to be able to be okay with service. And overall, just service, like, in your community. If you're on a sports team, are you the captain?
• 46:34
  It's all these leadership things, and it's really important you have to get nominations. So you have to look at that and contacting your congress people and saying, hey. Or you can get a presidential or vice presidential nomination. So it it is a thing. It is a whole package.
• 46:50
  It is a whole process. The earlier you start, the more likely you will do the best you can as a student as well as a parent to help your student be at least competitive.
• 47:02
  Christy-Faith: And Now would if you go this path, are all the eggs in one basket where if you did all that and then you don't get in
• 47:10
  Natalie Mack: Right. Yeah.
• 47:11
  Christy-Faith: Did you just waste a ton of time and money? Or or are they well prepared for whatever the second thing is?
• 47:17
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Again, these are highly competitive students. These are students who want this.
• 47:22
  So then they just segue to another highly competitive opportunity. So you don't put all your eggs in one basket with the service academy because the percentages of acceptance is is it's really like
• 47:33
  Christy-Faith: Right. Right.
• 47:34
  Natalie Mack: But I always say, yeah, apply ROTC because if you really wanna serve, that's another. Or look at the service colleges like BMI, University of North There's several of them. Look at those. Apply to other four year universities. What you don't wanna do though is apply early decision.
• 47:54
  So early decision is when a student applies to a particular college and if they get accepted they have said, if finances are good, I am committed to this college. So it's a commitment when a student submits an early decision application. And so if you've done that and you also have applied to a service academy, that's not good because a service academy is like honor your commitment. If you get accepted to university of blah blah blah under early decision, they don't want you to back out of that to take the service academy acceptance. So that's a no go.
• 48:34
  So just kind of now you could do early action, which has no binding commitment, but early decision is a binding commitment. So look at that and figure that piece out. There's so much we
• 48:44
  Christy-Faith: can find out what
• 48:45
  Natalie Mack: we should do.
• 48:46
  Christy-Faith: I mean, if this was my path for one of my students, I'd be booking a consultation with you.
• 48:51
  Natalie Mack: Okay. Thank you. Because I do offer that. I can at least help families weave through Yes. What looks like a dizzying amount of options.
• 49:01
  Right? Yes. And I can't be able to do anything.
• 49:03
  Christy-Faith: I'm sure it would a consultation would pay for itself just in the headache and doom scrolling night.
• 49:09
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. Yeah. From
• 49:11
  Christy-Faith: that moms would have to because it does. It sounds like a lot, and and I would hate for parents to reinvent a wheel that's already been invented. Right. So do consider that families. And, again, this is a narrow path.
• 49:23
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• 51:56
  So before we wrap up today, Natalie, the last question is, we talked about all these pathways, enlistment, ROTC, service academy, college, whatever. How can a parent when when a teenager says, I'm thinking about military service. Yeah. How can a parent help their teenager make the right decision
• 52:18
  Natalie Mack: Mhmm.
• 52:19
  Christy-Faith: For what path to go down?
• 52:21
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. And and and that's a good question. So I think what I always encourage parents is your role is to help your student ask better questions. What kind of experience is your student looking for? Do they wanna begin serving immediately after high school, or do they wanna attend college first?
• 52:37
  Do they wanna become an officer? What type of career fields are you interested in? Which branch offers those in the way that you want? Like, if you want to be work on planes, all of the branches have planes. So do you have a specific type of planes that you're looking at or specific mission, or do you want to and and also, do you wanna fly planes?
• 53:00
  That's an officer. Or do you wanna work do you wanna work on planes, which is honorable? That's a different path. Right? So these are the deep questions.
• 53:08
  What commitment will you owe in return? Like, you're getting something. They're gonna want something from you. Is that okay? Right?
• 53:17
  And then what happens if your first choice plan doesn't work out? These are conversations to have. Military service should not be treated like as a default right plan, just because a student doesn't know what else to do after graduation. Right? It can be an extraordinary pathway for students, but it's a commitment and we need students who are committed, who are there, who are excellent.
• 53:40
  I see it in the homeschool community all the time and I'm so proud to like represent and serve and kinda facilitate these connections as best like this.
• 53:51
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. And I think that I love that you said ask more questions because it sounds like there are opportunities to have the experience that they want to have. It's not just enlistment. Right. And I and I think that that's that is alone just a valuable piece, a nugget of wisdom from even this whole episode is that there are so many different pathways for military service and really getting to the bottom of what your student wants.
• 54:19
  Mhmm. And also your family's limitations financially and different things like that, and then piecing those together for a good decision. Because the reality is we all do have limitations.
• 54:27
  Natalie Mack: Yeah. So Yeah. We all do.
• 54:29
  Christy-Faith: Yeah. So Natalie Right? And that is yeah. Absolutely. Mhmm.
• 54:33
  Natalie, where can families find you? And everything that you mentioned and more will be in the show notes. So listener, don't worry about that. But, Natalie, where can parents find you, and is there a particular resource that might be helpful for them for this particular episode?
• 54:49
  Natalie Mack: Yes. So we have you can find me on socials as homeschool natalie mac. And then if you go to my website, which is natalie-mac,mack.com, there is a free download on military service pathways to just kind of give you a broad overview of a lot of what I've been talking about. I do offer one on one consultations for you to kind of share your unique story. I love to talk to the students.
• 55:17
  Definitely, I wanna hear from them, help them understand this journey. Yeah. Reach out. Definitely. I do other homeschool consultations as well.
• 55:27
  Christy-Faith: And she might be coming to your local area because she comes and talks about high school in general and military. Maybe she'll be the one in the ASVAB room. Yeah. When your teenager takes the ASVAB.
• 55:37
  Natalie Mack: Yes. Absolutely Please and remind me that she's on The Christy-Faith Show.
• 55:43
  Christy-Faith: Yes. Yes. Well, that wraps up our high school series, which I am really proud of this. I think we did a great job. Let us know, mom and dad listening, did we do a good job?
• 55:55
  Did we give you the beginning of the information that you needed to be able to make the right decisions for your family? Can we answer all your problems and plan out your high schoolers for your plan in a podcast episode when we don't know you? No, we cannot. But we can move you towards where to look for the answers that you need and give you nuggets of wisdom so you don't fall into the pitfalls that a lot of us have had that have fallen into. Yeah.
• 56:18
  So I am really thankful that I even had the opportunity to have this conversation with you, Natalie, because I think this is going to, one, help a lot of families make a plan. But also, I think it'll keep families homeschooling in high school. I hope it does because it really is a special time. It is. And we have the opportunity in these four years of high school to develop our teenager in a way that really can't be duplicated because it requires time, it requires relationship, it requires investigation, and internships and figuring out what they love and who they are.
• 56:57
  And I hate to say it, but that needs time.
• 57:00
  Natalie Mack: Right.
• 57:01
  Christy-Faith: And time is a lot is what our teens in America do not have. Yeah. And so I am just, as you can tell, I love homeschooling high school for my own family, but I love just the idea of it. I think it's healthy for teenagers to be homeschooled. Yeah.
• 57:16
  The socialization thing, listen to another episode I've made objection. If anything, it's healthier to not be in the public schools for high school. Yeah. So Yes. You anyway Yes.
• 57:30
  Thank you so much. That wraps up our series. Awesome. I will see you next time, Natalie.
• 57:35
  Natalie Mack: Thank you. Thank you.