Latest / Forged in Fire: The Soldier | The Civilian | The Truth / Ringing the Bell

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Ringing the Bell · Forged in Fire: The Soldier | The Civilian | The Truth

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  (Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi listeners, we want to let you know
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  that the mental health of our soldiers, veterans,
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  their families, and all victims of war are
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  our priority.
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  Please note that the following episodes contain sensitive
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  material.
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  Know that you are valued and you don't
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  have to walk through trauma alone.
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  Your stories, your lives, have purpose.
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  Richly Productions presents Forged in Fire, The Soldier,
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  The Civilian, The Truth.
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  Starring Leah Vasquez and Richard Cannell.
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  Created, written by A.C. Leo.
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  Hi, how are you?
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  Hey, good.
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  How are you?
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  Good.
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  Ready to start?
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  Yes, and now recording.
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  You described the training as beyond agonizing.
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  At what point does preparation become something else?
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  When does it stop building someone and start
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  breaking them?
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  Well, what we're preparing for isn't normal.
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  The training is extreme, because what comes later
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  could be far worse.
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  It sounds like enduring pain becomes the priority.
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  What about things like judgment, clarity, and decision
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  making?
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  Those can fall apart when someone's pushed too
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  far.
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  Could that kind of training work against the
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  various skills you need?
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  That's part of the test.
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  It's not about performing at your best.
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  It's about functioning at your worst.
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  Anyone can think clearly when they're rested.
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  We need people who can think when they're
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  exhausted, stressed, and under pressure.
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  We are pushed to the point of incoherence,
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  to see if we can still be coherent
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  and make sense of a situation.
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  But there has to be a limit.
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  At some point, pushing people that far becomes
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  dangerous.
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  Well, not everyone is meant to do this
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  job.
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  The stress isn't random.
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  It's deliberate.
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  It mirrors what we might actually face.
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  If someone can't handle it during the selection
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  process, they won't handle it when it matters.
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  Still, there's a difference between pushing limits and
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  deliberately creating suffering.
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  Doesn't that cross a moral line?
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  It would, if it were meaningless.
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  But it isn't.
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  Every part of it has purpose.
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  It's controlled, measured, as much as something like
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  that can be.
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  But controlled suffering can still leave lasting damage.
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  It can.
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  But that's why the option to quit is
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  always there.
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  So, is it really true, like in the
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  movies, that instructors taunt the candidates, keep reminding
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  them they can quit even that they should
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  quit?
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  It happens, but not in the way movies
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  make it look.
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  Meaning it's less dramatic?
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  Yeah.
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  Less random.
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  More deliberate.
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  You won't find a manual that says, push
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  them until they break.
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  It's not written like that.
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  I would hope not.
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  Then what is in the manual?
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  Stuff like, apply controlled stress.
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  Assess motivation.
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  Evaluate performance under fatigue.
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  Something tells me that the selection process does
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  not follow the objective checklist.
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  Haha, yeah.
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  Well, when you're going through it, it definitely
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  feels personal.
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  The stress has to feel real, or it
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  doesn't work.
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  You can't test judgment under pressure without actually
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  putting someone under pressure.
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  It's not just physical.
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  It's doubt.
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  Frustration.
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  Second-guessing yourself.
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  Sometimes instructors will notice tiny things no one
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  else sees.
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  A hesitation.
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  A glance.
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  How you carry yourself when you are wiped
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  out.
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  Those small details tell them more than words
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  ever could.
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  That's when they keep reminding you that you
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  can quit?
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  Right.
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  When you're tired, frustrated, or thinking, I really
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  can't keep going.
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  That moment, that hesitation, tells them a lot
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  about when you are seriously thinking of giving
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  up.
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  That is usually when they remind you over
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  and over that you can quit.
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  So it's not just about whether you can
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  go on, it's whether you choose to.
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  Exactly.
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  The way it's done, the tone, the pressure,
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  it can feel like they want you to
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  quit.
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  Yes, but the truth is, they're not selecting
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  people who never think about quitting.
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  That person doesn't exist.
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  They're looking for the ones who hear it,
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  think about it, and still decide no.
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  So the taunting isn't really about breaking people?
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  No.
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  It's about stripping away everything that makes staying
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  easy.
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  What's left?
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  That's what they're measuring.
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  Sometimes you notice tiny things, how someone shares
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  a load, how they react when someone else
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  falls apart.
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  Those little details, invisible to most, tell the
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  instructors as much about a person as finishing
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  the toughest task.
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  Okay, but what if someone doesn't quit and
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  still fails?
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  Like they faint, collapse, or can't finish a
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  task?
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  That happens too.
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  I know it does, because I have seen
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  it happen countless times in movies.
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  So when that happens, are they out?
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  Oh, not automatically.
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  It depends on why it happened.
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  Meaning?
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  There's a difference between someone who stops because
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  their body hits a limit and someone who
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  stops because they gave up mentally.
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  So fainting doesn't automatically mean failure?
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  No.
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  Sometimes your body just says enough.
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  Instructors, they see that.
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  So even failure is useful data?
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  Yeah.
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  Every reaction tells them something.
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  How you recover, how you respond, how fast
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  you get your head back in the game.
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  So you can fail a task, but still
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  be capable.
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  Absolutely.
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  Things like how you bounce back, how you
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  keep making choices when test scenarios are falling
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  apart.
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  You are being constantly scrutinized.
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  That must be so intense.
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  It is.
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  And that also plays a part in why
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  some end up giving up.
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  How often does someone actually think about ringing
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  the bell?
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  How often?
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  Try every few minutes on a bad day.
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  Sometimes every minute.
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  Did you?
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  Yes.
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  Every minute?
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  That sounds exaggerated.
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  It's not.
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  When you're exhausted, cold, hungry, sleep deprived, and
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  everything hurts, your mind starts negotiating with you
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  constantly.
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  It doesn't scream quit once.
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  It does it over and over again.
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  Everyone thinks about it.
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  Everyone.
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  No exceptions?
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  Even the strongest ones?
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  No exceptions.
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  So if someone would say that they never
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  thought about it, they're lying.
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  Hmm.
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  Yeah, either they're lying or they don't understand
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  what they went through.
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  Okay.
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  Oh, the urge hits everyone.
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  It doesn't matter how tough you are, how
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  prepared you are, or how bad you want
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  it.
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  That's kind of surprising.
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  I would have thought the best candidates just
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  power through without even considering it.
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  No.
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  The best candidates think about quitting just like
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  everyone else.
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  Let's say someone really didn't think about quitting.
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  What then?
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  Then the real question is why?
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  Why does that matter?
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  Because not thinking about quitting doesn't always mean
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  strength.
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  It could mean denial.
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  It could mean they're not fully processing the
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  situation.
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  It could mean they're running on ego instead
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  of awareness.
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  Making them dangerous.
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  Very.
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  The people who make it are the ones
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  who understand exactly how bad it is and
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  keep going on anyway.