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Tigers playing laborious baseball, labor negations and more · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network Tit Tigers podcast. I'm Kieren Stikley
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: with me as always a man who thinks angels in
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: the outfield. Yeah, wasn't raunchy enough. He's Cody Stavenhagen.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: How you doing, Yeah, I don't know about that, ELSA,
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know how I'm doing the Tigers. They just
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: lost two of three to the Angels. They are now
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: tied with the Angels for the worst record in the
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: American League. And as I wrote on The Athletic, the
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: reality is, the Tigers have played kind of like the Angels.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Their identity has gone away from the gritty Tigers. And
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: it's not about the equivalent to the Angels in terms
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: of the brand of baseball that they have been playing
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: that we have spent so many minutes on so far
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: this season. That's not really where you're trying to be.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, this was a tough was a
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: tough watch. Obviously, today was a tough watch. The series
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: in general was a tough watch. Uh, you know, drop
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: the series the way you lose Tuesday Wednesday. Well, obviously
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: we'll get to came with bad news as well, and
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: then and then Thursday, Uh, just just a draining type
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: type lesson and what what What's kind of the shame
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: of it all, Cody, is that I understand if you're
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: cynical enough and you just never kind of allowed your
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: brain to get there.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: But this was kind of a tease, like they were there.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: There were teasing elements to this series where whether it
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: was Jack Flderdy today, even Casey Mais pre injury spincher
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Torklsen kind of finding a stroke there for a game,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Wetzel Perez hit two home runs in a series, you
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like there was like there was
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: kind of like a lot there that you were you
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: could allow yourself to feel good about. But then you
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: look at you know, you look at the end, you're
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: two or three, You've lost like what seven straight series,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: six against below five hundred team, something like that. Like
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Dan Dickerson, God Bless his soul, like keeps like saying
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: at the end of these series, you know, and anticipaying
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: another series, like look, you know, Toronto is a team
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: that's also injured. Baltimore is a team that gives up
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: a lot of runs. The Angels blah blah blah. Like
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: the schedule, as he puts, it, is kind of like
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: set up for the Tigers to right the ship, make
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: some headway other cliche, you know, like and and we
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: stare at it at the end of every series and
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: it's just like, I can't tell you, there's been a
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: whole lot of advancements of this team right now, and
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: now we're on the cusp of June, and it's like,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I just kind of feel like this team doesn't have it,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Like not like the whole roster as was designed, but
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: what we are seeing right now, it does not have it.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: And so at what point do you even allow yourself
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: to get angry anymore? At what point you just kind
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: of like, this is where we're at, and it's kind
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: of a waste of emotion to just lament, you know
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: what I mean. And it's hard to really take this
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: iteration of the team lack of better terms seriously until
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: there are the reinforcements come and it more resembles the
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: opening day roster.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: That's kind of where I'm at.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's kind of what I sensed at the
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: conclusion of this series. The Clubhouse, oddly enough, was a
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: little less tense than it has been. I'm not saying
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: it was loose, but it was almost like a mafe,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: like some a resignation or just like a you know,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: you get past the point of anger in your in
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: your cycle of acceptance. Maybe that's where we're at. AJ
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: hinch Man. AJ kind of had some weird answers to
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: some questions this week if you were following along on
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Twitter or reading any of the stories, and then by
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: the end he just seemed a little frustrated. We've talked
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: a lot about AJ, We've probably had AJ and more
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: of a microscope than we ever have before. But watching
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: this game Thursday, I felt bad for him because I
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: was like, what is this guy supposed to do the bullpen?
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously losing Kinley is another blow, and there
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: were people out there like, oh, good, Kinley's on the il.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: He hasn't he hasn't been good. No, he hasn't been great.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: But man, your bullpen is a lot better with Kinley
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Jansen than without him. Without him, you get in a
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: situation like you had at the end, where although you
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: had done nothing all day, although the offense was lifeless,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: it was a two run game in the eighth inning,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: AJ had already used Brennan Hannafy for the third day
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: in a row. He threw ten pitches, got you through
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: the seventh, but he couldn't go anymore. AJ said, it's
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: the first time he's ever used a guy three times
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: in a row in Detroit. I've yet to fact check that.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's true. But he doesn't do it
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: a lot, for sure, for sure. And so in the
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: eighth you gotta have a ridy and you have you
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: got no one you got, You got Ricky Vanasko. Ricky
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Vanasko got punched in the mouth, gave up two runs
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: in the eighth, gave up two more in the ninth.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: All of a sudden, a close game turns into a
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: seven to one blowout. There's not much the manager can
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: do about that. That was kind of a summation of
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: one problem. The loss of the first loss in the
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: series was a summation of the problem the Tigers beating themselves.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: The lack of hitting in Game three was terrible. One
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: of my other takeaways was, like, no, the Angels are
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: absolutely as bad as advertised, even in Game two, Like
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: they probably left Jose Soriano in longer than they should have.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: After you get past Zachnetto and Mike Trout, I'm not
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: sure you're afraid of anyone in that order that bullpen.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure they have a lot of reliable strike
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: throwers in that bullpen. So that's the team you were facing,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: and they still beat you, and in the series finale
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: they beat you seven to one. Not good.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the cycle has just continually been seeking feel good
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: instead offering it up to the other team.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: That's kind of that's.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Kind of what we've experienced in the it's more specifically
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: in the month of May. Uh, if you're into if
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: you're one of those people that maybe like a metaphorical calendar.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: Turn could do this team soon good.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Maybe at this point, you know, you have to start
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: kind of believing in in in some some pretty superstitious
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: and ridiculous things, because a lot of the problems that persist, uh,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: don't really seem.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: To be going away.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Although again, maybe health will help change things a little bit,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: which uh.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: We gotta talk about that too.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, which we will.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: But I did wanna, I did want to go into
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: some Jack Flaherty content real quick here, Cody, because again,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: like the teas thing like Jack Flaherty for a lot
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: of this start was awesome. He ends up, you know,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: he ends up with you know, almost going six five
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: point two. He has nine strikeouts, only one walk. He
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: gives up three runs there at the the tail not
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: the tail end, but toward the ending part. Yeah, and uh,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: you know in six hits and I don't it wasn't
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: a case of like, oh man, he was pumping ninety
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: six or whatever, like it was like location.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: I thought sequencing was good.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: It's just couldn't get couldn't get the last swing of miss,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: couldn't get the the slider out enough away from the
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: play and he and he got damage and it turned
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: out to be enough damage. You know, he gets another
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: loss this year, but it I don't want to overshadow,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Like there were really good Jack Flaherty moments today.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: So again, what do we make a Jack?
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I think this was this is
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: best outing all season. Like it, it was certainly close
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: to it. His first four innings were really good, and
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: he had I thought elite command, specifically elite fastball command,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: the thing I've been saying, he kind of has to
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: have to succeed at this point in his career, and
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: he had it.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: Man.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: He was he was dotting the ball, he was getting
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: in good counts, and he was punching dudes out. Fifth
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: inning comes around. I personally think the Angels made an adjustment.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: All four of their hits were on breaking balls down.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: They did swing at a couple four seemed fastballs. They
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: didn't totally eliminate it, but it seemed to me they
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: might have said, hey, this guy's fastball is on point today.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: And generally Jack Flaerty's breaking stuff not easy to hit,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: gets a lot of whifts with the slider and the
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: curveball as well. But they might said, hey, we're we
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: know he's not gonna sit up, he's not gonna spin
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: it up, so we're gonna lower our sights and we're
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: gonna wait on some spin. That's what it felt like
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: happened to me. He had a couple of two counts
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: he couldn't get out of, didn't laying the breaking balls
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: to Neto and or to someone at the bottom of
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: the order, and that goes on a couple of balls
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: just barely kind of get by Colt Keith. Not really
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Colt's fault, just game of inches. That's That's what Jack
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: said pretty much afterward, and then netto doubles and then
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: next thing you know, you're in the soup. He gives
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: up three runs. Now he still leaves three runs five
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: point two things, one out away from a quality start.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Jack Flarerty's last three outings twenty strikeouts, only one walk.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: That one walk was intentional day today to Mike Trout.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: So there are some signs of better out better outings,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: better things. He's got to continue commanding the baseball. You
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: can get by a little better if he's pitching anywhere
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: close to this. Now, as we talked about before, Tigers
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: do have some tough decisions on the horizon, even maybe
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: as soon as when Trek Scougle gets back. Now, I
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: see what happens with Casey Mize, but Flarity and Theory
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: is kind of pitching for his rotation spot, maybe even
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: his roster spot. He still has more to prove. But
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: I thought this, despite a bad fifth inning, was a
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: pretty big step in the right direction for Jack. Now,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: consistency is always a problem. Can he repeat it? Going
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: deep into game is always a problem, and that one
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: still lingers.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Sebastian Rivero was the first one there. I just wanted
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: to put that in there, and yeah, Neto double after that.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't know.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: It's it's hard for me to actually get there with
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: with the DFA stuff with Flaherty for the simple reason
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: is that there's if there's a front office and a
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: team that kind of figures we're not really in a
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: position to turn down healthy pitching.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: And the money is guaranteed anyway, Like, I think you
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: probably stick it out, uh, And so like that, do.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: You move into the bullpen? Though he's done it once
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: before in his career in Baltimore and it was a disaster,
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: So I think the Tigers do have a thought of, like,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: we don't want to do that. That's maybe not the
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: move for Jack. I personally, I'm watching this guy pitch.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: I'm like, first time through the order, he's pretty good,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: damn near every time, I think, maybe you just gotta
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: try it. Maybe his stuff can tick up a little bit.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Jack may not like it, But if it gets to
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: a point where everyone's healthy, Scoobleu, mys Valdez, Montero, Melton,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: or even if Verlander is here and Montero goes to
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: the pin, like you might have to sit Jack down
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: and say, hey, you can go to the bullpen or
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: we're gonna have to dfa you, Like we don't want
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: to dfa you, but you're gonna have to go to
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: the pin. And if you don't, good luck getting a
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: major league deal next season. If we dfau in June,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: that's not really what anyone wants. And I don't know,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: maybe if Jack continues out, strings together some good starts
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: and Verlander just can't get back, or Myz has to
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: go on the ail now, like maybe this conversation changes,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: But like Jack has to know that this thing is
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: kind of on the table right now. And I think
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: the Tigers certainly have to be taking stock because they
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: are getting close to having to probably do something about
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: this Jack Flairty thing.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's and you know, and if everything was equal, salaries, experience,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah, tractual stuff like, you know,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: it's hard to say that with everybody healthy, he'd be
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: guaranteed a top five spot.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: But that's not the world that we live in. It's
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: just it.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I do believe that they're gonna do everything in their
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: power to at least retain him.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: The bullpen thing would make some sense. But then.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Then you gotta like re ramp them up or whatever
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: like it like it's it could it could get it
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: could get dicey quickly. So where that decision comes will
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: be quite interesting to follow. All Right, we are going
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: to take a quick break and then afterward we're gonna
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: get to stop. I mean, if you've heard this before,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: more injury news for your Detroit Tigers.
• 12:39
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• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Well Cody. Under the category of why can't we have
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: nice things? Was Casey Mize on Wednesday, doing like what
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Casey Mice has done the majority of the here by
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: the way, he's a plus war picture right now, and
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: he allowed two hits over four innings. He had six strackouts.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: He had a walk obviously, zero runs and just like
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: immediately goes to the dugout and goes into the tunnel
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: like without as a replay show, without so much as
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: a verbal discussion with the training stabber or age. He
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: was just like and then went and I guess we
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: still know the extent, but just and hopefully it's not
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: that bad.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Hopefully this is one of those persons of the moment things.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: But it just feels like another example of just not
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: being able to get oh the way there with this
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: damn team. And you feel for Casey personally obviously because
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: he had just come back, didn't miss an extra day
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: from his eyel stint, and then this happens.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, brutal, I mean, yes, for the team, right so
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: hard to get to full strength. And that is one
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: thing I caution even we're talking about this light at
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: the end of the tunnel, this far away horizon when
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: everyone's back, like some of these guys are gonna get back,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: and more guys can continue to hurt get hurt, maybe
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: including some of these guys that are playing every single
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: day that you're asking a lot of right now. I
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: feel for Casey Mice personally. He's pitching the best baseball
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: of his career and he just can't stay healthy. Now.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: It's like these soft tissue injuries. And you know, I've
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: seen some of the comments like, oh, back in the day,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: athletes would have toughed that out, or maybe they need
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: to get in better shape or blahlah blah blah, and like,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I look, I don't know how you explain why stuff
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: like this happens, But I don't think it's for lack
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: of preparation. I don't think it's for lack of desire.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I think Casey Mayes he's in a contract year. I mean,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: he wants nothing more than to get on the field.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Missing time could be costing him tens of millions of
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: dollars quite literally. Oh, I don't know what to make
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: of it. There was no real update on myz Thursday.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: He was supposed to go out and play catch, which
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: seemed like a positive sign he'd gotten MRI. I don't
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: know the results of that MRI, but I do think
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: given he previously had like this same injury, and granted
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Casey said this time felt less severe than when he
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: experienced it in Atlanta, I think given that he's had
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: this same injury, like you gotta be real careful here,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: like it's his drive legs, something's just off. And if
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: that means you gotta swim down and get this thing
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent healed up, maybe that's what it means,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: even if it's at you know, kind of the worst
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: possible time for both Casey and the team.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is very much a if. Even
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: if you do it quote unquote right, this can still happen.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: So I don't want to make it that black and white,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: but this is very much a we could be very
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: well going into a pattern here where like this thing
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: could creep up at any moment if you don't take certainly,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: if you don't take every single step necessary.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: And again, this is a team thing. This is a
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: casey thing.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, one of those instances where everyone's
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: kind of aligned in the same way here, But it
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: just brutal. One of the few guys in the in
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: the rotation from start to finish that you felt like,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: you know, you could really rely on, and again having
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: a career year just really sucks for him. And then
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: of course that wasn't the only injury news from that game.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: Ken Lee Jansen.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Also left with a lower bodied officially on the IL
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: fifteen day IL with pelvic inflammation. Not sure exactly what
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: that means, but he obviously was not like comfortable, and
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: he hasn't really been comfortable. You just like tell he
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: hasn't really necessarily been comfortable a couple of times out here.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: So he was probably pitching through something and I think
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I think we could probably say he was pitching something.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: He had talked about a month ago. He was pitching
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: through stuff when he gave up back to back homers
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: and he didn't pitch for five days and he had
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I think they described it as a growing slash abdominal issue.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: He ended up avoiding the il and he seemed to
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: come back a little refresh and pitching better there for
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: a while and now here he is a gift leave
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: the game with the groin issue. It's now described as
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: pelvic inflammation. J Hinch said Kim Lee is going to
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: see a specialist. He also said kim Lee saw specialist
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: earlier when he had whatever issue was bothering him. So
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: sounds like he has a recurring problem that while it
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: is going we know that one's requiring an il sten.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: He's already on the IL They're gonna have to get
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: it sorted out. The fact he's going back to a
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: specialist makes me worry this is something more than just
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: like a pulled muscle, Like maybe it's something that costs
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: him a longer time. I don't know, so I don't
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: want to speculate much beyond that, but certainly unfortunate. We
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: already talked a little bit about just the ripple effects
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: for the rest of the bullpen, regardless of whether Kimley
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Jansen was pitching, Well, you just don't have the depth
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: to be able to afford to lose yet another relief
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: pitcher right now.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know some people like look, obviously, one
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: of the more notable failures a baseball player can have
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: is a closer who blows slight blow was safe? Right,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: those That's about as a parent as it gets. And
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: he's had some right, we we obviously understand all this.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: So there is a little bit of like, Okay, well,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: did we really even need him? How good has he been?
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Uh man without without Ken Lee in this back end
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: bullpen that throws off every single other Like it's not
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: every single one, but many, many, many scenarios that AJ
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: has at his disposal and like pitch type stuff, and
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: and now you could be end up having the force
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: feed will best Kyle Finnigan, who like are supposed to
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: be part of this pie too, but now they could
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: be put in situations that AJ would.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Not normally put them in. And then that.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Ripple effect goes down even further as well, So like
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: it's not just like, all right, this guy's been blown saves,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: what do we need him for? Anyway, it's the piece
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: of the puzzle. That's that's if you haven't learned anything
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: about this team, it's just like how intricate and essential
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: every single piece of the puzzle is. Because when you
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: throw one out, the picture don't look good, it don't
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: look right.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: And ken Lee's part of that.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, while we were on the bullpen, we should probably
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: address what we alluded to earlier, which is why is
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Ricky Vanasco on this team? Man? And I don't like
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: not trying to be personal risky. Ricky seems like a
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: really good dude. I wish him success in his career,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: but like this seems like some poor roster management from
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: the Detroit Tigers, from her front office that once prided
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: themselves on stacking good baseball moves and making winning moves
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: in the margins. Ricky van Nasco is a picture that
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: they dfa'd. At the end of twenty twenty four, they
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: brought him back, they released him in the summer of
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. I believe he was injured. They brought
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: him back again, and last weekend Troy Melton was coming
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: off the sixty day il and they had a decision
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: to make. They had to make a forty man move,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: and they chose to dfa Connor Sebold, who had a
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: I believe a three point four or five r unremarkable
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: but had been pretty solid for the Tigers. And I'm
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: not sure we ever really got a great answer as
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: to why they dfaid Connor Sebold, other than like they
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: had to make one of these precious forty man moves. Well,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: looking at it now, Ricky Vanasco man has just not
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: been able to get hitters out in his very short
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: time in the major leagues. Connor Sebold had at least
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: done a little bit of that. It's also worth considering
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: the Tigers when they acquired Connor Sebold before the season,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: they dfadd Dylan Smith and they lost him the Giants.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Dylan Smith this time a year ago. The Tigers internally
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: were raving about, oh, we moved him to the pin
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: and he's throwing ninety seven and like they were high
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: on him as ever, and then he was out of
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: their organization to get Seabold, who'd pitched okay, and then
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: they dfade him. I don't know why, I guess so
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: they could keep Ricky Vanasco, who doesn't appear capable of
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: getting hitters out right now, who they've dfaed before and
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: who just just turned a three to one game into
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: a seven to one game in the snap of a finger.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Feels like very poor roster management to me, unless I'm
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: just missing something here. There are more sixty men guys
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: who have to come off the sixtydil. So unfortunately Ricky's
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: name is at the top of the list to be
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: the next guy out, But like, I'm not sure why
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: he wasn't first, And now Connor Sebold is on the
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Blue Jays. The Tigers did get a minor league I believe,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: a lefty back in that trade. But you lost Dylan Smith,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: you lost Connor Sebold. I'm not sure it had to
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: be that way.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Riggy Banasko, Cody turns twenty eight in October, so it's
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: not like this is a you know, we just want
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to hang on give as many young arm you know whatever.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Like he's twenty eight, so.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: He's really stubborn to be hanging on to this guy
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: through all that. Yeah.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So just wanting to make a note of that there.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Yet I wouldn't say it qualifies as the stacking of
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: quote good baseball moves. All right, we are going to
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: take a quick break, and then after where we're gonna
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: get to a couple we'll get some good news with
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: the Tigers and even the front office, and then also
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: labor talk, which I know you guys are very much
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: looking forward to, so that comes up at the at
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: the at the other side of this break.
• 23:30
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• 24:31
  Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, Cody, At least there is
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: some good news and people, if you're looking for help,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: look no further than Toledo, where Carrie Carpenter and Labor
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Torres will soon not at the same time, but soon
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: be making rehab stints. The glabor one was probably the
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: most reassuring for me, Cody, because it just kind of
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: felt like we were just getting nothing but neutral to
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: negative news there for a little bit.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Where it's like you can't swing.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I think at one point they
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: use the word like shut down for a pre second.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: Don't quote me on that.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: But the fact that he feels well enough here pretty
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: soon to get some game action in it is a
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: good thing. And of course, carry Carpenter, who obviously had
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: not had yet to get going this season offensively, he
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: is still a looming threat that hopefully we'll be back
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: in your lineup.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you certainly hope. So we did see Kerry
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Carpenter take some swings against justin Ferlander. Glaber Torres stood
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: in and just tracked. He didn't take swings, so carps
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: a couple of days ahead. The hope Glaber has hit
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: in the cage. The hope is that he plays in
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Toledo by the end of this weekend. It would certainly
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: be pretty big. Look, missing these two guys is not
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: the sole reason the Tigers are last in OPS in May,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: all right, it's much deeper rooted than that. But not
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: having Glabor Torres man, Yeah, the whole lineup feels at
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: little different without that stable right handed presence right there,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: even though I mean Glaber can be You'd like to
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: see Glaber hit for some power at some point. You know,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: these things like he's not a perfect player, but probably
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: other than Kevin McGonagall, the best consistent quality of it
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: bad on your team, Like the right handed presence up
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: there can allows AJ to do a lot of different
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: things with the rest of the lineup. They miss him
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: pretty sorely, and obviously, Carpit his best is a complete
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: threat and changes everything AJ does and puts decision points
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: on the other dugout and all that stuff we've talked
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: about so much over the years. Now when he gets back,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: He's got to be right. We haven't seen the best
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: version of him consistently in quite some time, but certainly
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: two impact hitters. If you want reasons for hope, those
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: guys in theory are going to be back pretty soon.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: The way I would summarize it is opposing managers and
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: pitching coaches. They're not losing, they have not been losing
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: sleep over the fact that Labor and Carrie are unavailable.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I'll phrase it like that, and that's it. That is
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: That is the best way to look at it. So
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: are magic elixir guys, but it's a big, big part
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: of what they can.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Do, and maybe having those guys allows you to do
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: something wild like give Riley Green or Dylan Dingler a
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: day off. Like I said, these guys are getting ran
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: into the ground, and I mentioned that with Riley probabority
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: a week ago or more. Riley's now I think four
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: for his last thirty one with thirteen strikeouts. Riley's been
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: so good this season, man, I'm not trying to not
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: I just I think he's starting to look gassed. And
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: we've seen this with Riley before and he's played in
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: every game, and I get it. Because aj Hinch can't
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: take him out of the lineup right now, because he's
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: one of your only threats to do anything. If you
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: give Riley a day off or two, that might help,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: because I think he needs it. And you can do
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: that a little easier if you have some carp if
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: you have some Laver in the lineup.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I know it's not this simple, but sometimes I think, like, man,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: it just be really nice to win the first two
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: games of a series and then you can give Riley
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: a day off because he won the series, or at
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: least like take him out of the starting lineup, you know,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: like one of those aspects Like that's that's that's where
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: we're at right now, following this team all right, real quick,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to forget because this is
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: a part of the Casey Miies.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Game on Wednesday. And that's Drew Anderson, who.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Was a darling in spring training and just kind of
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: really was off as soon as the regular season started.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: It seemed like, and now Cody is you got the
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: graphick up here. You can see it if you're watching
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: on YouTube. Over his last twenty five point one innings,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: four earned runs, nine walks, thirty five strikeouts and if
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: you go to his Baseball Savant page, his fastball run
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: value is eighty six percent tile.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of red here. I'm not gonna read
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: them all.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: K percent is ninety percent tile expected bating average ninety
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: one percent.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: Tile.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Like, there's a lot of good here. And Scott Harris
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: has not had a great approval rating of late. This
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: is a move that looks to that you have to say,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: is paying off in credit to Drew Anderson for you know,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: some guy who hasn't had a stint in the big
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: leagues extended to able kind of right the ship during
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: the course of a season and become like one of
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: the more valuable weapons as of now at a j
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: and Chris fetters'sposal.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Drew has been huge. The Tigers might have gotten
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: swept in this series if not for Drew Anderson being
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: able to answer the bell when Casey Maies went out.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: He's pitching some different roles and he's been honesoly nothing
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: short of it of pretty incredible. Thirty five punches and
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: twenty five innings. That's that's about as good as it gets,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: and especially considering how far he has come, how bad
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: he looked those first few outings where we were trying
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: to figure out, like, does his contract even allow him
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: to be options because they might have no choice. He
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: went from looking non competitive to looking really difficult to hit,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: a really uncomfortable at bat. That change up is absolutely
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: as dynamic as it was in spring training when Trek
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Scouogle called it one of the nastiest pitches he has
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: ever seen. I think now the question kind of becomes like,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: what are you keeping him in just kind of this
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: long relief role. Could he pitching more of a high
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: leverage back end role. I could he? Could he just
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: become a starter? You know? Are you able to ramp
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: him up a little more and make it work like
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: that if the flairty thing doesn't work out or if
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Casey misses extended time. It seems like right now I
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: would expect the Tigers to continue to use Drew Anderson
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: kind of in this in this role where he can open,
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: he can be a bolt guy, he can pitch long relief.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I think they like I think AJ likes that versatility.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Think about what they did with Troy Milton down the
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: stretch last year, So I'm not expecting to change. However,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: if there continue to be you know, this level of injuries,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: maybe at some point you bump this guy into a
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: different role because he's certainly been good enough to earn it.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Well, the whole point and Drew Anderson is you're supposed
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: to have that option available to you, right, That's essentially
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: why he was brought in. And just to give some
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: context here in his career, prior to this season, he
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: had only logged twenty three point one endings of major
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: League baseball and now was the last in twenty twenty one.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Obviously everybody knows the story of being overseas whatnot. He
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: is thirty six point two this season, so this is
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the longest run of major league time that he's had
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: and it's not even close. So so good on him for,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: you know, taking advantage of the opportunity right now, and
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: again one of those guys that feels essential right now
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: might actually become more essential.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: It looking like a good move from the front office,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: which it's track record of pitching move the past two
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: years is not great. They certainly need to get one right,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: and at least for now, looks like they did Withdrew.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: All right, let's let's go to some broader topics.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Here, Cody the On Wednesday, the Players Association kind of
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: leaked their initial proposal for a collective bargain agreement, and
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: then on Thursday we got Major League Baseball's the owners
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: basically you know, their proposal as well. And and look,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna try to get worked up about this
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: stuff because these are initial offers. These are designed to
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: be like, not agreed to. I guess a way to
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: put is a way to put it. But it does
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: kind of give us an idea of where their heads
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: are at right And the biggest one as we're speaking Thursday,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: is that for the first time in over thirty years,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: the owners are proposing a salary cap also comes with
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: a hard salary floor, and there's other stuff in there.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: The players are trying to get higher salaries, get the
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: free agency faster, you know, all these kinds of things.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Is a little bit more intricate if you read their
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: read their proposal. But the bottom line is this is
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: step one and what will be a very long step
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: and negotiating process. And I want to remind everybody everybody's
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: looking out for their own interest here, and like it's
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: not the game's interest, it's the player's interest. And it's
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: the owner's interests, okay, Like, so don't fall for any
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: of the fluffy language here. They're looking out for their
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: own interests. That's how these things work. But do you
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: have any initial thoughts on these because I do have
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: one piece I think might tilt toward ownership here just
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: from an initial offer, But I don't know if you
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: have any overall thoughts.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Well, if you're going to go toward ownership the player's proposal,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: you're right, it's a lot more nitty gritty stuff. I'm
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: not even going to go over quite everything. But I
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: like some of the ideas here. Elimination of the qualifying
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: offer as well as penalties for clubs that sign free
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: agents that should be good for everyone's market, doesn't really
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: do much to ding clubs. The idea of raising the
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: CBT threshold but also instituting a competitive integrity tax which
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: is not necessarily a hard floor but something resembling a
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: payroll floor, expanding the draft lottery to distancentivized tanking. Like,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of these things are pretty good sensible ideas.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: There's some stuff in the Leak's proposal that there's some
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: pretty good sensible ideas, and it makes me wonder is
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: this just all about the salary cap, because that's the
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: big thing, that's the big sticking point, that's the reason
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: we could potentially miss games next season a lot of
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: these other things. I'm like, why don't we just sign this,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Why don't we just call it good? You know, maybe
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: everyone chop a thing or two off their list and
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: then we just enacted and then everyone's happy. But the
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: big fight is going to be over the salary cap,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and that's not going in a way anytime soon. We're
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: probably about to see these same back and forths about
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: sixty seven times between now and whenever if there is
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: a twenty twenty seven season that begins, So I don't
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: want to get too worked up over it. The only
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: other thought I have interesting how public this already is
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: MLBPA just laying everything on the table, the league doing
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: the same them issuing public statement rebuttals to each other.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: It seems like there is a little bit of an
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: effort to try to win the trust of fans and
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: the public. And which side is going to win that
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: debate could be pretty interesting. We know teams don't like
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: their fans, don't like how much the Dodgers spin, and
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: the league's like already referencing that in things, you know,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: put out to the public. Like, I think that's pretty unprecedented.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: And again, we are really early in this process. We're
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: still in the middle of the season here, and we
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: have stuff like around the public sphere. So I think
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: that is a departure from the norm and a reminder
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: that these negotiations could eventually get pretty ugly.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So a couple quick thoughts.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I think ownership's tactic of essentially using their own partners
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: as examples of why the game is broken as it's interesting.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I think it's like, you know, like what the Dodgers
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: do and then like what the Marlins do or whatever,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Like they're putting their partners in this, but they're putting
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: them up against each other as like an example of
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: why the system has to be radically changed, which is
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: obviously what a hard salary cap will do. And I
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: think the players have to play this.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Players play this.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: They have to play this, like really thoroughly and effectively
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: with the messaging. It can't just be anti cat that's
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: not good enough. Because the American sports fan is inined
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: to associate professional sports leagues with salary caps. All right,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: and baseball being obviously the only exception to that. So
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: if you're just you think salary caps are just a thing,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: they're normal. So you have to convince them why this outlier,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: which is what Major League Baseball is without a cap,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: is like the burdens on you to create the scenario
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: where actually, our way is better, even though we're the
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: only ones that do it.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: Our way is better.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: And major League Baseball with this proposal today I thought
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: was a huge pr win because you have a really
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: I would say a pretty high salary floor, uh in
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: this proposal with one seventy one point two million team payroll,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: and then you know the cap whatever, but the floor
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: is like high like that I feel like was done purposefully.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: And then you have the revenue split aspect, all local
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: media revenue centralized, get rid of blackouts. These are these
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: are things that are pr wins for Major League Baseball
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: that the players are sonociations just not gonna get the
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: regular fan to go through all that and be like, oh, yeah,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: that makes sense, that makes sense. Yeah, like major League Baseball,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: this was a win for them. And I'm not saying
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I'm signing with Major League Baseball. This is a pro
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Labor podcast. We're not trying to suppress wages here on
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: this podcast, but I'm telling you the way they did
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: this proposal and the way they put it out there,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: and what they're like emotionally trying to connect to with
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: the fans. Hell, even Manford going on Pat McAfee show
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: like this.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Like they have.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: This is an early pr win. I'm not saying it's
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: gonna be a negotiative, negotiable win.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: This is an early pr.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Win for Major League Baseball versus the players. And it's
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: you know, it's not even it's like the first ten
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: seconds of the first quarter. So it doesn't really matter
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: all that much if we're gonna use like another sport analogy.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: But but I thought Major League Baseball put together a
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: really nice and like emotionally like charged in a good
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: way proposal and it's and the players have to know
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: that they kind of have to climb the mountain a
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: little bit in order to get the fan to really
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: realize why a salary cap.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: Is not good.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: You can't just say it's not good. You have to
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: you have to you have to put some thought and
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: some effort into it. So that's maybe if you had,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: like you know, consistent leadership that would probably help to
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: which a major league Baseball has been preparing to do
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: this for a long time, and I think it shows.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I think those are all fair points. Got a long
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: way to go.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: And and again like there, this this will be a
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: pr tug of war. The players will get their their
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: time in as well. Uh, but just remember everyone's in
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: it for their own interests.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: That's how these things work.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: So you know, if you if you look at everything
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: through that lens, it starts to become a little bit
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: more clear. So that'd be my advice for everybody. All Right, Cody,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: anything else before we jet out of here?
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: No, I'm good. We'll see if the Tigers can climb
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: out of the cellar this weekend.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Another series that you know you hope could give you hope,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: and we'll see what happens.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: We've had a lot of those here in the in
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: the month of.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Met You guys can follow along at Coe staven Hagen
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: at Karanuscore, Decictly at Tiger Territory Underscore. Be sure to
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: go to our YouTube page and subscribe, as well as Apple, Spotify,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Go to Tiger Territory Shop
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: dot com to get your Tiger Territory merch. We appreciate
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: all you guys so much. All right, so for Codey
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Stavin Hagen, I'm Kieran Steckley.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: Everybody, have great day.