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Podcast: Behind the Scenes: Earn All You Can, (Matthew 25:14-30) · North Raleigh United Methodist Church Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Good day, and welcome to North Raleigh United Methodist Church Behind the Scenes Podcast, where we sit down weekly and talk about this week's scripture and sermon.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Kevin Van Hall.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I serve as your moderator.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Joining me today is one of the senior pastors here at North Raleigh, Kevin Johnson.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Kevin.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hey.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Laura was here last week, and we had All Saints Sunday, this past Sunday, and we spoke about it.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: We had a beautiful little tribute for all of those that had passed this year, plus, in addition to remembering all those that had passed even before that.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful ceremony to time of year where Halloween's over, or Saints Sunday comes, and all of a sudden we're on the calendar and we're looking at uh Advent right around the corner.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: But we have a few weeks before Advent starts.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um in three uh particular here, and there's so we're gonna kick off a new series.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd like generosity, it's that time of year we talked about generosity, and in particular, you're gonna be talking about Wesley's view on money.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd like for a little bit of background of what that is.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the the series, we're calling it All You Can.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And John Wesley preached this sermon, and John Wesley is the founder of the Methodist movement, right?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he he preached a sermon about three simple rules of money.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and and Wesley preached these sermons in ways that are really memorable.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: When I print out the sermon, it's 15 pages, so I won't read it all to you.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: But he gave three simple rules about money.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um they were earn all you can, save all you can, and give all you can.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And when we were looking and planning out sermon series and thinking about this with our team, we realized that Matthew 25 uh is the lectionary gospels for these three weeks, and that they pretty much perfectly align with these ideas about earning, saving, and giving.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it gives us some spiritual lens to think about how do we utilize finances in God's world, but also what really matters, and also how we care for the poor, and also how we're called to utilize our um our gifts and things.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of what all of these three parables in Matthew 25 focus on.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we're starting with the second of those parables, just because it works better for doing earn, save, than give.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think you'll I think we'll have a good conversation together about that.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: It it's Wesley talks um when he talks about earning all you can, he says, the first of these is gain all you can.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Here we may speak like the children of the world.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: We meet them on their own ground.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it is our bound duty to do to do this.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: We ought to gain all we can without buying gold too dear, without paying more than it is worth.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it is certain we ought not to do.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: We ought not to gain money at the expense of life, nor at the expense of our health.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so he starts talking about how there needs to be good working conditions for people in earning all they can.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: He starts talking about the mining culture and people that are on arsenic too much in those days, in ways that they knew were harmful to health.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: He he continues when he talks about gaining all we can, he says, we are to secondly gain all we can without hurting our mind any more than our body.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he says, therefore we may not engage or continue in any sinful trade, any that is contrary to the law of God or of our country.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So he talks about having to pay the necessary customs in his country and having to earn honestly like that.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: He says then also thirdly to gain all we can without hurting our neighbor.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: So he talks, um, and he says, but this we may not, cannot do if we love our neighbor as ourselves.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: So he talks about how we how we trade with our neighbor and how we make sure we're caring for our neighbor in that.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um he also talks about not hurting our neighbor in his body, uh, and even talks about um not distilling spirits then that would harm our neighbor, or having them have illicit drugs that would hurt them.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um anyway, it's just a it's a fascinating thing because when we get obviously a picture of mid-1700s and some different things, but in all, he's trying to provide an ethic of kind of what is an ethic for the Protestant work ethic, right?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: The Protestant work ethic that says, hey, sun up to sun down, you should be working, and you'd be earning all you can.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he says yes, and let's do it ethically.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just it's really interesting to look at what he says about gaining all we can.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think as a culture, we have no problem with the idea of making all the money we can, and that's not all he's talking about.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's at the expense of others.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Are you still yes, exactly?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um Well, it's preached throughout.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: We we understand you're not supposed to be oppressing the poor less fortunate than we are or any of those things, but we always want to look the other way when it's for money, and then but I then I'll give back or pain indulgence, which was going on in the Catholic Church a long time ago to try to cover up my sins.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I love this approach that Wesley had.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Did he write this when he was still uh in England?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um preach part of the uh of the church.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, really, I mean he only had a little bit of time where he wasn't in England, right?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that was when he came to Georgia and bombed.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really before his ministry had taken off.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, this was I mean, written, you know, I mean, he preached this around the 17 in the 1740s, so relatively early.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: I imagine that this was one of his go-tos.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: When you develop points like that and you've got them so good, I imagine that's a continual reminder to your Methodist ministers.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: He was often, but he was often preaching to his leaders that were gonna go out throughout the country and things.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I imagine that this was part of the message to them as well.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you had mentioned that we were going to be in Matthew 25 and talking about one of the parables there, Matthew 25.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people we can remember the parable of the sheep and the goats when you think of Matthew 25.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: But the parable just before is the parable of the talents, and that's where we're gonna be uh reading from and discussing today uh in verses uh 14 through 30.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: But before we begin that, how about a word of prayer?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's pray.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Holy Spirit, we pray that you would open us up to hear your word today, that you would help us to see what you have us to see, not that you would help us to have ears to hear.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and God, that as we think about how you are calling us to um to live in relationship to finances, uh, that we would also be able to continually learn how to live open-handed before you.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's in Christ's name we pray.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you say uh Wesley was probably preaching to his main people that were going out, and we're in a point in the gospel here in Matthew where Jesus is telling quite a few parables to his very same uh disciples that he is sending out and talking about um all kinds everything from the signs of the ages to um being ready, uh sheeps and goats.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: But he puts in the middle of this time of end times a parable of the talents.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people have a hard time with the end of the end of the parable.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: I struggle with it a little bit, but I'll look at it in a different way, in a different lens, and which is the nice thing about a parable.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you can do that.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can look at it differently than straight money.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: So again, we're gonna be in Matthew 14 through 30.
• 8:07
  unknown: Yep.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: So Matthew 25, certain verse 14 The kingdom of heaven is like a man who was leaving on a trip.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: He called his servants and handed his possessions over to them.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: To one he gave five valuable coins, and to another he gave two, and to another he gave one.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: He gave to each servant according to that servant's ability.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Then he left on his journey.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: After the man left, the servant who had five valuable coins took them and went to work doing business with them.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: He gained five more.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: In the same way the one who had two valuable coins gained two more.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the servant who had received the one valuable coin dug a hole in the ground and buried his master's money.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, after a long time, the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: The one who had received five valuable coins came forward with five additional coins.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Master, you gave me five valuable coins, look, I've gained five more.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: His master replied, Excellent, you are so you are a good and faithful servant.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: You've been faithful over a little, I'll put you in charge of much.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Come celebrate with me.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: The second servant also came forward and said, Master, you gave me two valuable coins, look, I've gained two more.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: His master replied, Well done.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: You are a good and faithful servant, you've been faithful over a little, I'll put you in charge of much.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Come celebrate with me.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now the one who had received one valuable coin came and said, Master, I know that you are a hard man.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: You harvest grain where you haven't sown, you gather crops where you haven't spread spread seed, so I was afraid, and I hid my valuable coin in the ground.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Here you have what's yours.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: His master replied, You evil and lazy servant, you knew that I harvest grain where I haven't sown, and that I gather crops where I haven't spread seed.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: In that case you should have turned my money over to the bankers, so that when I returned you could give me what belonged to me with interest.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore take from him the valuable coin and give it to the one who has ten coins.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Those who have much will receive more, and they will have more than they need.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: But as for those who don't have much, even the little bit they have will be taken away from them.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now take the worthless servant and throw him out into the furthest darkness.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: People there will be weeping and grinding their teeth.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's a harsh treatment for the individual that buries the coin.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: You uh your version says uh coin.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: I introduced this parable as a parable of the talents.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: In my version it says talents.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um in this sense today we're talking about it in the way of money.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the first servants, the few, actually put the money to work and earn more and gain the good favor of the master.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're like to center the discussion on the third servant.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Why does he hide the coin?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, according to him, right?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's afraid.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe he's afraid that when he invests it, he's gonna lose it.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um what we hear from him is just an excuse and he is wicked and lazy, like like the master said.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's interesting to think about it.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if Jesus is saying that he's the man leaving on the trip and he's leaving, he's about he's about to leave them, he leaves them the talents, he leaves them you know, the commission to be able to go out and do his work.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna do it?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, or are they just gonna are they gonna say, well, that that was nice for when you were here, Jesus, but you know, and so so I think it's truthfully him talking about his his coming again.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I find that a really interesting take on it.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it is, like we said, it is in the area just for the sheeps and goats of the of the uh coming judgment.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um but such harsh treatment for a if you look at it in one way, uh wicked and lazy servant.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: But before he comes to that conclusion, after he says, You're a hard man and you and you harvest where you have not sown, and the master replies, uh oh, so I'm a hard man and I harvest where I haven't sown.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: The the servants pass in judgment on him, and uh he just repeats his assessment.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like it angers him then in the sense that I he felt that he was that way.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is that justified to be wicked, call wicked and lazy servant because he felt like he was afraid of him?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Or do am I I'm trying to read into this that Jesus is a lot more compassionate and full of love than this kind of treatment?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: He is, and these are warnings about I mean, he's trying to prepare them for when he's gone.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think that it has to do with hey, like, you better be ready.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a lot of the message of Matthew 25, has to do with you better be ready.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that what that means then for our discipleship when we think about our own finances becomes we better be ready with how we're called uh to engage and utilize our finances for God's work, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And how we're called to relate to them.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think there's some connection points there with, hey, we need to think about our finances not in terms of you know, what's the amount, not not not end our budget with what's left over that I can give to God, right?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the space of generosity.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: The space of generosity is well, I'm gonna start with my giving.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: What more could I give?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: And how can I live that generous way?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we see we we start with the gift to God.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: We don't we don't come at it at the very end, right?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's part of this talents thing, right?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is when we start like that, well then we see the gain, we see we see the benefits from it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I I I do think we have some connections, some connections there.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's multiple ways, like you said, most parables are you could look at it as in your spiritual gifts, your talents of what God gives you, blessings that he's besp uh bestows upon you, and what are you doing with those blessings?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you helping others, are you putting forth uh his kingdom, or are you hiding his kingdom?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are you trying to prevent, thinking that maybe he's not gonna come back, or thinking that um he doesn't, you know, try to prevent the money from earning or going forth or or doing anything into his kingdom?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then he's thrown out um upon uh judgment.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: But how about the part where take what he little has, and for those that have little, well, we turn around and give it to those that have plenty.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: How are we supposed to interpret that?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think we need to interpret it in the way of the one who is faithful with much can be entrusted with more can be entrusted.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there's a sense there's a sense of of trust to that that comes.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's important for us as we think not just about like you know, the wealthiest one percent in our country or something, but I think it's also a way we think about responsibility as a nation, as a people of means generally, is is to say, how are we called to take care?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: How are we called to, you know, we we've we've been entrusted with much.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now I think we could argue that sometimes, and I'm not talking about our church, I'm really talking about our country, um, sometimes our having of how much we have sometimes hinders our discipleship.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: If we if if you've seen the church in places where there is not as much money and not as much financial means and there's a vibrancy to faith and there's a deep connection that frankly sometimes does not feel like we have in American churches and things.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I wonder if if if our money gets in the way.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think there's also a message of hope here for us as a church, us as a country, uh, who has money is to say, hey, we've it's kind of like to whom much is given, much is expected type of thing.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and and that that's part of the message of this is yeah, we can earn all we can by the correct means and everything, and that's an okay thing to do and to invest it well.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh there's expectations that come with that.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's a there's a duty to one another that happens when we connect those dots.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I I that those are just some thoughts I have.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if we look I guess if we look at it like uh you talked about it as in Jesus coming back, comes back and sees what you've done while I've been gone, and you're doing what I've asked you to do and and more, so I'm gonna give you more.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: More blessings will be bestowed upon you.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: It goes along with um it is better to give than to receive.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: The more I give, sometimes the more I get.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um and giving can be a blessing, and where we've been taught that being generous is a very good thing indeed.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe Jesus is saying, be generous and just more will be given to you.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Where if you're not generous and you sit upon it, it'll be taken away from you.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a really I think that's a good interpretation.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I do think that God's economy is different than ours.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And in God's economy, right, there's there's an abundance.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's enough.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's so our our like our just Western capitalist mindset is very much like there is a pie and you gotta get your peace.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's just set them out.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is a zero-sum game.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so if if you don't get it, you're not getting, you know, and and and and we're all schooled in that way of thinking um from the earliest days, because that's just the that's the air we breathe.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so when Jesus talks about money, and even though directly here, this isn't necessarily a parable about money, it also still is because it's about utilizing the gifts that God's given to us.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: I find it interesting because it, you know, yes, the one who has five and invested it um gets the extra one, but also the one who had two also had the same return, same return rate as the guy with five.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And had the exact same thing said about him as the one with five, right?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well done, good and faithful servant.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: You've been faithful a little, now you'll be given much, right?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: The same same words are said.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's almost I almost think the five and two are indifferent.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's kind of it's more Hey, doubled your money, 100% return.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: We've got the same return.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: So how is God calling us to utilize and and and and put to work what God has given to us?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um Because we're gonna be giving different things.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: We see that in we talk about God's world or economy in our economy.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: We see that some seem to be blessed or have more than others.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um the one that has one might have been jealous of the one that got five.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't want to make any more money or decided to to hide it out of spite or or out of anger.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of just accepting that, like God says, don't cover your neighbor's things, some are gonna have more.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Don't don't decide there's a reason why God did what he did, but if you'll just do what God asks you to do, you'll be able to do that.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's interesting.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or is it because he's gonna have to turn the profit over to the He's gonna turn the profit over to landowner anyway, and so because he's spiteful for not trusting him, then he doesn't make any money on what to.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean this it's a parable.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we got sure, it could be not.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it could be what I just said.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't thought of that before.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: And but yeah.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: There are exactly there are different ways to look at it, and we look at this and then throw him and worthless servant outside into the darkness where there's weeping and gnashing of teeth.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So there's almost that uh apocalyptic warning as well.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I I I think rather than us worrying about, hey, that's not fair to that guy, I think we need to take it more as like a warning to us that says, hey, like this is serious stuff.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: You've been entrusted with it, what you're doing with it.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that's money, whether that's your spiritual gifts, whether that's um, whether that's the good news of the gospel.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: You have it.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing with it?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Are you squandering it?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the message, right, at the heart of it.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the the strong apocalyptic language is gonna bring that out.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna get that in the next the passage about sheep and goats anyway, that we'll preach about in two weeks.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's the same type of message of that.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think the concern is as much a prototype picture of hell or something, as much as it is like, hey, like this is serious how how you how you're gonna live, especially Jesus saying to disciples, well, I'm not here.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: How you're gonna steward my message and my good news?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Are you gonna you're gonna double the money or not?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna double the money, or are you gonna you're gonna hide it under a bushel?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's the kind of what he's saying.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Very much so.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Very much so.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because then he uh gets accused of he's gonna come back and reap where he has not sown, where we've heard that there's gonna be a great harvest in the second coming.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone uh he's claiming that um Jesus is gonna reap where he hasn't sown, and and uh it gets brought forth as a question mark, but it's almost like, well, um, weren't you instructed to do that for me?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not sure how well how the other ones make uh double the money.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh talent, uh a valuable coin, whatever they were given, it gets multiplied.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well it doesn't after a long time, right?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, you know, maybe they invested in a 10-year CD, right?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like whatever.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well that's what that is what he's asking to say.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, you could at least just go to the bank.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just anything.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Just like if you did the exact opposite instead of going forward with doing anything with it, you tried to hide it so it wouldn't do anything.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it wouldn't produce anything good.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I mean I think this play I mean, this can play, you know, if we want to take it on a on a real pragmatic financial level, it's like, okay, so like, you know, I I wonder that, you know, how are we called to invest in our lives?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not supposed to stuff the money in a mattress or bury it in the yard.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're supposed to do something.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: But what if what if the returns you get on it can bless others, right?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: What if the returns pay for someone's higher education?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that kind of stuff, right?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or be, you know, and in a world we have where we might live 30 years after we retire, there's also responsibility with that and everything.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: So like I don't want to suggest that, but but I do think then we have to think, okay, so how do we do that responsibly?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: How do we follow Wesley's advice to not hurt others in companies we invest in?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: How do we think about it with funds that we like you know, it starts to play out into all these things.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's really real world concerns with that.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that it's uh it's messy.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's messy because it's even messier than was in Wesley's world because when we invest those funds into some ETF or something, we're not looking, we're not going and reading the prospectuses on all of those companies unless you really like bedtime reading, right?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I you know, I I think you can go overboard, but it's also an important thing to remember like, hey, how I s how we utilize our funds matters, how we support.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: It it can also be like how we spend what we have and how we support local economies and all of that kind of stuff, right?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like it all plays it's it's all connected here.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't have to be that like, oh, I have this financial life that is separate from my spiritual life.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's all integrated.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I think that's what we're hoping to see in this in this series and start to bring out for people.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're then back to the uh series uh in this this Wesleyan doctrine or or sermon or way of looking at the money and preaching to the congregation.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And were there other uh instances or references in his Bible that he would bring forth that we know about that?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, because he's not he doesn't use this passage.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And he's actually using another passage.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Some sometimes, you know, he would start with a verse that seems to make no sense to that passage, and then he would go on a whole like it wasn't exactly exegetical preaching based on a text.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I don't have exact examples of I I would have to dig in a little more uh and do a little more homework to see what what text he was using.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm gonna have to Google it because I'm um now I'm very curious.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I want to read the whole sermon to see what he's got to say.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's really, really interesting.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um you know, it it's written with 300 years ago English, but it's once you get past that, it's good.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say hopefully there's a modern translation.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Not much.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Nope.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's more reads more like the King Jimmy than yeah.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I gotcha.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so we're gonna be uh listening to Kevin uh preach this Sunday on on money matters and on Wesley way of looking at it in earn all you can, but earn all you can in an ethical way, not in an unethical way.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then we'll continue with the series.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Laura should be back next week then and talk about uh save all you can.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: And this week, um when you're preaching, she should be able to hear him, Kevin, much better when I say that.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: The uh I was on the soundboard this uh past Sunday for the 8 30 service with the new uh sound equipment.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like it sounded well.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Did you did it right?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, really excited and good investment.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're we're that's exactly trying to try to try to make a good investment with it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh and and we're we're really pleased with how everything sounded Sunday.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was a really I mean the choir sounded phenomenal.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just all all of it, the spoken word and and and and music sounding.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we're and we're still tweaking it.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um we didn't even have the new choir mics.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: The new choir mics are supposed to go in this week, and then we did have the new wireless, and then eventually the screens will come in as well.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's investment on uh degenerous uh donations from many of the church members here to help us put forth the word, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to thank all those uh individuals who have given for that cause.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're gonna sign off for today's uh podcast then and our discussion on the uh the use and the way of looking at um money and in this one in particular, earn.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Earn all the money.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Kevin, any last uh uh closing, closing remarks?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm just grateful for the opportunity to talk about this together.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we've stepped into these conversations about money um like awkwardly in church.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: And the reality is Jesus talks about money an awful lot.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of us think about money an awful lot, and uh it would make sense for us to think about it spiritually and from what God is calling us to.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's what we're doing together.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's not just the like you know, the annual plea.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's more of trying to trying to figure out hey, how does God call us to live in relationship to our finances?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I look forward to the uh sermon this week.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're unable to attend church on Sunday, you can find the sermon posted on the uh website or the sermon in the whole service will be live streamed as well.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: So then please uh be well until you join us uh again next week.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: We continue our series.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: So then until then, may the love of Christ be with you always.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Goodbye, everyone.