Latest / Honey Badger Radio / More Military Kangaroo Court Stories with Guest Jerry Clifft | Fireside Chat 249

Transcript

More Military Kangaroo Court Stories with Guest Jerry Clifft | Fireside Chat 249 · Honey Badger Radio

0:16
Speaker 1: It's key. Oh you lucky she could Oh suddenly, Hello, lay,
0:34
Speaker 1: let's begin. Indeed, Hello everybody, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio.
0:58
Speaker 1: My name is Brian and this is the fire so
1:00
Speaker 1: I chat and today I am joined by my very
1:02
Speaker 1: special guest, Jerry Cliff. He is kind of like, loosely,
1:07
Speaker 1: would you say you're friends with Arvis the guests I
1:10
Speaker 1: had on or just.
1:11
Speaker 2: The guy you know, just because Yeah, we spoke a
1:15
Speaker 2: number of talpons on the phone, and then we met
1:17
Speaker 2: once in DC for a meeting with bigger minds than
1:21
Speaker 2: ours and handle the issues I talk about today.
1:24
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, So if you guys missed the last
1:28
Speaker 1: one that I did with Arvis, definitely check that out.
1:33
Speaker 1: You don't need to have watched it to follow this.
1:36
Speaker 1: This is just a continuation of that. But yeah, very
1:40
Speaker 1: interesting stuff learning about the what's going on with the
1:44
Speaker 1: sort of sports in the military. This is something we
1:49
Speaker 1: knew was going on, but we didn't really have anybody
1:51
Speaker 1: to talk to about it. They had personal experience. We've
1:54
Speaker 1: had some vets on and they will talk about kind
1:57
Speaker 1: of what the environment is like, but they've never actually
2:00
Speaker 1: been subject to any of these things. So Jerry why
2:05
Speaker 1: don't you start by a guest, tell us your story
2:09
Speaker 1: and you know how you how you came to find
2:12
Speaker 1: this group that you're a part of.
2:15
Speaker 2: Sure, so well, I mean, like any any story, it
2:18
Speaker 2: has a lot of info in it. So we'll just
2:20
Speaker 2: keep it pretty broad and as we need to just
2:23
Speaker 2: narrow it down. So in twenty sixteen, I was court
2:27
Speaker 2: martialed for a sexual assault charge against my ex wife.
2:33
Speaker 2: The basis of the story is I had asked her
2:36
Speaker 2: for a divorce. She followed up with a sexual assault
2:41
Speaker 2: allegation to my commander, and the way that pipeline goes,
2:45
Speaker 2: like once it meets their door, that allegation is out
2:47
Speaker 2: of their hands and it goes to immediately to investigation
2:51
Speaker 2: into the local jag for prosecution. Fast forward to the
2:59
Speaker 2: trial date. I mean there was no smoking gun. It
3:04
Speaker 2: was really she said it happened. I said it didn't,
3:07
Speaker 2: and that was that was it.
3:09
Speaker 1: It was your word against hers, nothing else, right, right, okay? Right.
3:15
Speaker 2: Testimony was long and drawn out. The trial lasted I
3:18
Speaker 2: think six days. Then most of it was her just telling,
3:22
Speaker 2: telling the jury and the judge how awful of a
3:25
Speaker 2: husband I was. And then a small tid been in
3:28
Speaker 2: there oh by the way he raped me, and then yeah,
3:33
Speaker 2: as an aside, yeah, I kind of, I mean, and
3:35
Speaker 2: we we did all the legal challenges we could think of,
3:38
Speaker 2: you know, post conviction. Anyways, her her story won the
3:42
Speaker 2: day mine did not. I spent a little over three
3:46
Speaker 2: years of a four year sentence in the military brig
3:49
Speaker 2: and Charleston. I got out in twenty nineteen and now
3:53
Speaker 2: I'm a highest yeer registered sex offender Oklahoma can have
3:58
Speaker 2: after register every ninety day and once a year, sheriff's
4:04
Speaker 2: deputies roll out and basically do a no knock warrant
4:09
Speaker 2: than hey, we need to come in and talk to
4:10
Speaker 2: you and check your place out, you know, which is
4:13
Speaker 2: a bit bizarre. And that that that instance happening to
4:18
Speaker 2: me is really what propelled me back in because I've
4:20
Speaker 2: kind of settled into life. I kind of accepted my
4:22
Speaker 2: circumstances like this fucking sucks, you know, but you know,
4:27
Speaker 2: sometimes things happen, all things considering I hadn't I hadn't
4:31
Speaker 2: have a good life. I got a good job. I've
4:34
Speaker 2: got good people around me. There's a handful of people
4:36
Speaker 2: in my personal life outside of my family that know
4:38
Speaker 2: my story, and it doesn't really cause issues, but I'll
4:42
Speaker 2: send it home with my my wife and my kids.
4:45
Speaker 2: And here comes sheriffs at deputies rolling deep into my
4:49
Speaker 2: house trying to ask me all these probing questions and
4:52
Speaker 2: in front of my family. I was like, I'm not
4:53
Speaker 2: dealing with this for the rest of my life. And
4:56
Speaker 2: that's when I started doing some digging. I found out
5:00
Speaker 2: about the dak iPad, which Arvest spoke about on the
5:04
Speaker 2: chat he had with you last week, and I started
5:10
Speaker 2: prepping myself to get ready for making a public statement
5:14
Speaker 2: at the dak iPad. And then, you know, it's strange
5:17
Speaker 2: how the universe works. Once you start trying to move
5:19
Speaker 2: in a certain direction, things start coming your way. I
5:22
Speaker 2: had a former jury member reach out to me and
5:25
Speaker 2: contact me about some stuff he after he retired. Mind you,
5:30
Speaker 2: he waited until he retired to tell me this, which
5:32
Speaker 2: makes me think maybe he was worried about some blowback himself.
5:36
Speaker 2: And he told me about the things that went on
5:38
Speaker 2: off record that we were never made aware of. We
5:41
Speaker 2: can get back into that after I finished fuck him
5:43
Speaker 2: out getting in with the tack iPad in harvice. But
5:47
Speaker 2: I rolled that into my statement and telling my story
5:50
Speaker 2: at the dec iPad and I did it telephonically first,
5:54
Speaker 2: and shortly after the meeting was over, I did my statement,
5:58
Speaker 2: I'm at the gym and my phone and it's a
6:00
Speaker 2: Virginia number. I don't know anybody in Virginia these days,
6:04
Speaker 2: and I didn't think that was a coincidence, so I
6:06
Speaker 2: answered it, and it was Arvis. It basically asked me
6:09
Speaker 2: where I've been hiding, because I you know, that's one
6:13
Speaker 2: thing about this is everybody that it goes through this,
6:16
Speaker 2: it gets fired up and they get ready to kind
6:18
Speaker 2: of take a stand. They all think they're by themselves
6:20
Speaker 2: and they're really not. Like there's there's a there's a
6:23
Speaker 2: growing movement of people putting their foot down and saying that,
6:28
Speaker 2: you know, it's it needs to stop, it needs to
6:30
Speaker 2: be fixed, there's problems. And that's how me and Arvis
6:34
Speaker 2: got in touch.
6:35
Speaker 1: So yeah, and uh, how so I noticed it was
6:40
Speaker 1: it was weird. We we got like three people I
6:44
Speaker 1: think reached out to us around the same time. And yeah,
6:48
Speaker 1: one of them was Arvis, one of them was you.
6:50
Speaker 1: And I actually got everybody mixed up because they all
6:53
Speaker 1: had such similar stories. So I want to know, first
6:58
Speaker 1: of all, again, I really coming on our show to
7:01
Speaker 1: talk to us, because we're kind of like small channel
7:05
Speaker 1: corner of the Internet, but we like to talk about
7:07
Speaker 1: these kinds of issues. We think that they're very important.
7:09
Speaker 1: How did you come to learn about Honey Badger Radio.
7:14
Speaker 2: I can remember hearing about the Honey Badger movement in
7:18
Speaker 2: the magazine while it was incarcerated. I believe it was
7:21
Speaker 2: it was either time or mental. It was one of
7:23
Speaker 2: the two. And I don't even really remember what the
7:26
Speaker 2: just of the story was, but it was basically like
7:30
Speaker 2: generally speaking, women standing up for men. I didn't know
7:33
Speaker 2: you guys were primarily UK based or Canadian based movement.
7:40
Speaker 2: Fast forward to now, you know, people like me and Arvist,
7:45
Speaker 2: you know, we're trying to make change and make things happen,
7:47
Speaker 2: but we're at a certain point post conviction where our
7:51
Speaker 2: options are very limited if we have any at all,
7:55
Speaker 2: and the best thing that we can do is have
7:57
Speaker 2: a very loud conversation. You know, we kind of and
8:00
Speaker 2: I decided that when you know, when the sheriffs came
8:04
Speaker 2: to my house and uh and did their yearly check,
8:08
Speaker 2: you know, I was like, if I'm gonna if I'm
8:09
Speaker 2: gonna talk about this, I'm gonna have to kind of
8:12
Speaker 2: blackball myself and be loud, like there's no sense of
8:14
Speaker 2: being quiet about it, and try to be as loud
8:16
Speaker 2: as possible. And we just kind of started looking for
8:20
Speaker 2: avenues and and people to talk to, people that would
8:22
Speaker 2: listen to us. And I mean, and it's worked to
8:27
Speaker 2: a degree. Not that Arvest, I mean Arvest does Arvest
8:32
Speaker 2: lives and breeze this stuff. Man, not that I don't
8:34
Speaker 2: care about it. He's just he's in it every day.
8:37
Speaker 2: I just got a lot going on in my life,
8:39
Speaker 2: and every now and then I'll kind of get in
8:40
Speaker 2: the mood and I'll really hammer it down and try
8:42
Speaker 2: to figure some stuff out. And usually what I end
8:45
Speaker 2: up doing is just trying to find different people to
8:49
Speaker 2: talk to, and it's usually pretty successful. The last guy
8:51
Speaker 2: that we got in touch with, he's he's got a
8:55
Speaker 2: big time social media influence. He was formally incarcerated, and
8:59
Speaker 2: he talks about justice reform and all that, and he's
9:02
Speaker 2: helped us out with some contacts. And he's actually got
9:06
Speaker 2: a friend now, a personal friend that is facing the
9:09
Speaker 2: same thing. He's in the military. His wife is filing
9:14
Speaker 2: for divorce, wants all these things to happen and she'll
9:17
Speaker 2: drop her sexual assault allegation. You know, so's we're just
9:22
Speaker 2: trying to find people to talk to.
9:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, no, I'm really great that I'm glad that
9:27
Speaker 1: you came to us, and I'm glad that there are
9:29
Speaker 1: more and more people getting activated in the in you know,
9:32
Speaker 1: around this topic. So let's let's back up because I
9:35
Speaker 1: want to get into some of the details. So, first
9:39
Speaker 1: of all, what what did you do in the military.
9:43
Speaker 2: I worked as a gunner's mate in the Coast Guard
9:47
Speaker 2: for thirteen years and my last my last duty station
9:52
Speaker 2: was called the MSRT, which is the Maritime Security Response Team.
9:57
Speaker 2: I did a lot of cool training for a day
9:59
Speaker 2: that never came. We did we did. Our job was
10:06
Speaker 2: to do basically interdictions for things like counter drug, counter terror,
10:10
Speaker 2: counter piracy. I think we had five or six teams
10:15
Speaker 2: in that one unit. There's actually now two msrts in
10:18
Speaker 2: the United States. The back then we were the only one,
10:22
Speaker 2: and every now and then a team would get hooked
10:24
Speaker 2: up with something kind of cool and get to go
10:26
Speaker 2: do do some real big dog stuff and make a difference.
10:29
Speaker 2: But most of us, like I said, a lot of
10:31
Speaker 2: cool training for something that never came, but I really
10:34
Speaker 2: enjoyed my job. I loved it. And prior to that,
10:38
Speaker 2: the majority of my my career was was all law enforcement.
10:44
Speaker 2: As a gunners mate, my role out of school was
10:47
Speaker 2: supposed to be like small arms training, accountability, munitions, shipboard
10:54
Speaker 2: cannon stuff. I never did anything like that ever. I
10:57
Speaker 2: went to a couple of schools right after, a couple
11:00
Speaker 2: of specialty schools right after my my main pipeline school,
11:05
Speaker 2: but then after that it was just law enforcement and
11:07
Speaker 2: that was it. Once I was in that in that community,
11:11
Speaker 2: I never got out. I didn't want out and they
11:13
Speaker 2: wouldn't let you out anyways.
11:15
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, And so so you were in the
11:19
Speaker 1: coast card you did law enforcement? Yes, sure, right? Yeah?
11:25
Speaker 1: And where did did you know your who is now
11:29
Speaker 1: your ex wife then? Or did you meet her while
11:31
Speaker 1: you were like in that in that sort of like
11:34
Speaker 1: pursuing that career.
11:37
Speaker 2: I did. I met her at my very first duty
11:39
Speaker 2: station within the like the last year of me being
11:43
Speaker 2: in Saint Petersburg, Florida. Excuse me. I met her down
11:46
Speaker 2: there and we got married right before I went off
11:49
Speaker 2: to my gunner's mates school.
11:52
Speaker 1: How long were you guys together before you got married
11:54
Speaker 1: if you don't mind me asking seven or eight months, okay,
11:58
Speaker 1: And you just felt like, you know, I think that
12:01
Speaker 1: for a lot of guys, they just want they want
12:04
Speaker 1: to get married, and they just wanted like, oh, this
12:07
Speaker 1: is she's good, she's we share a lot in common,
12:10
Speaker 1: we have similar values. I'm going to marry her, and
12:12
Speaker 1: that's it. Like, just move on to the next step, right, like.
12:17
Speaker 2: Definitely twenty twenty and notwithstanding the horrible way, I mean
12:22
Speaker 2: it was a mistake. I was twenty one. Yeah, so yeah,
12:27
Speaker 2: so I mean I was young, she was young, and
12:31
Speaker 2: here we are. You know, I'm about to leave. I
12:33
Speaker 2: got to move, I've got orders. Hey, if we get married,
12:37
Speaker 2: guess what, you can come with me on the government's time.
12:40
Speaker 2: And we just kind of kept that up. Yeah, but yeah,
12:45
Speaker 2: you have to don't rush into marriage kids.
12:48
Speaker 1: If you are there any So you got married and
12:53
Speaker 1: you you you went off to uh school? Right like?
12:57
Speaker 1: Or was that okay? And obviously you proposed she said, yes,
13:03
Speaker 1: are there any children? Were there any children in the
13:05
Speaker 1: picture before?
13:07
Speaker 2: Or ye? As a result, yeah, I have two sons
13:10
Speaker 2: with her, mm hmm.
13:12
Speaker 1: And okay, so you got kids involved. So what I'm
13:15
Speaker 1: wondering about is how do we get from everything seems
13:20
Speaker 1: like it's, you know, moving forward amicably, you're you got
13:24
Speaker 1: a good woman, you have some kids, and then there's
13:28
Speaker 1: an allegation, you know, so like what what if you
13:33
Speaker 1: don't again, only share whatever you feel comfortable with, But like,
13:36
Speaker 1: how did we get there? What happened? Well?
13:39
Speaker 2: It was so we were married in total seven years.
13:46
Speaker 2: We it was it was rocky for the first half
13:51
Speaker 2: of that ended up with us separating. There was another
13:55
Speaker 2: man involved. She was in Florida, I was up in Virginia.
14:00
Speaker 2: We ended up getting back together. It's still kind of rocky.
14:03
Speaker 2: We're doing our best to make it work.
14:07
Speaker 1: You know.
14:07
Speaker 2: There's money problems and at one point I kind of
14:15
Speaker 2: got fed up of the overspending and I was like,
14:17
Speaker 2: I can't do this anymore. It's breaking the bank. I
14:20
Speaker 2: was working a second job. I shouldn't have had to
14:22
Speaker 2: have been doing that.
14:24
Speaker 1: Where was that over I'm sorry, what do you mean
14:27
Speaker 1: the overspending? Like where you were were you living a
14:31
Speaker 1: champagne lifestyle with beer money kind of thing or was not?
14:35
Speaker 2: Not really And it wasn't even things of like consequence.
14:39
Speaker 2: It was a lot of eating out, Like I mean
14:42
Speaker 2: that was people don't realize how fast that adds up.
14:44
Speaker 2: You know, you eat out three meals a day for
14:46
Speaker 2: thirty days, and you know, here I am, I'm packing
14:50
Speaker 2: my lunch, I come home eat cooked food. It's I
14:57
Speaker 2: don't know.
14:58
Speaker 1: And it was.
14:58
Speaker 2: And she was convinced that she was gonna to do
15:00
Speaker 2: homeschooling for our children, which I didn't agree with. I
15:02
Speaker 2: didn't like it. She was spending all kind of kinds
15:04
Speaker 2: of money on that. We had a military exchange card,
15:12
Speaker 2: which is you know, the credit card. That thing was
15:15
Speaker 2: maxed out constantly. And it was again it was just
15:20
Speaker 2: I can't even, I can't even. It's like nick NX
15:23
Speaker 2: and just like yeah, vanity things, you know, nothing that
15:25
Speaker 2: made sense, nothing that was practical.
15:28
Speaker 1: Sure, well, you guys were still pretty young. And and
15:31
Speaker 1: again like there's you know, so you're you're not you're
15:35
Speaker 1: spending some time apart. You're having some financial problems the
15:40
Speaker 1: depending on I don't know what the economy looked like
15:43
Speaker 1: at the time. I don't know what year this was,
15:46
Speaker 1: but that could have been a factor as well. So
15:48
Speaker 1: you just had these sort of like these things that
15:50
Speaker 1: were creating some stress. And you say that was some
15:53
Speaker 1: infidelity and that was on her part.
15:57
Speaker 2: Yes, sure, And this.
15:59
Speaker 1: Was because you were like not around or something.
16:03
Speaker 2: I don't really know. I mean, she told me after
16:06
Speaker 2: the fact, once we got back together, that that she
16:08
Speaker 2: had been talking to him for a while and that
16:10
Speaker 2: like when she would go on these walks, she'd be
16:13
Speaker 2: on the phone with him. So mm hmmmm. That's that's
16:17
Speaker 2: kind of how that was. I didn't dig anymore than
16:19
Speaker 2: I wanted to, because I feel like you did too much.
16:21
Speaker 2: You find out stuff you didn't want to know. Yeah,
16:23
Speaker 2: I mean I kind of wanted to be naive about
16:25
Speaker 2: the whole thing, like, listen, if you're going to come back,
16:27
Speaker 2: come back. But you can't talk to this dude anymore.
16:29
Speaker 2: And he's not a friend. He's somebody waiting in the wind,
16:32
Speaker 2: which is kindly gonna work. So but yeah, she waited
16:36
Speaker 2: until I went to transfer from Washington State to Virginia,
16:39
Speaker 2: and when we went and made that transfer, she took
16:42
Speaker 2: off what she wanted, went to Florida and didn't come back.
16:47
Speaker 1: So she so she just like left the marriage.
16:51
Speaker 2: Correct and took our son with her.
16:54
Speaker 1: Oh boy. Yeah.
16:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
16:58
Speaker 1: As on aside, I to talk to a guy a
17:01
Speaker 1: little while ago who also lost his son. His wife
17:06
Speaker 1: took him uh into Russia. So she's his son is
17:12
Speaker 1: in Russia now, and he met her in California and
17:17
Speaker 1: he was like a Mexican guy. His son doesn't even
17:20
Speaker 1: speak English, like like he can't talk to his son.
17:24
Speaker 1: That she brought into Russia just to get away from
17:26
Speaker 1: him through Ukraine like recently, like you know, with all
17:30
Speaker 1: this war and stuff. Yeah, during the whole conflict. Yeah yeah,
17:35
Speaker 1: and he's, uh, he's still fighting, you know, to talk
17:38
Speaker 1: to his son, but I don't know, he's not optimistic.
17:44
Speaker 1: So then she left you, and then she made this allegation.
17:49
Speaker 1: So I'm just and it's from nowhere, and there's.
17:52
Speaker 2: A little timelines, a little messed up. So she left,
17:55
Speaker 2: she left me. She's with this new guy down in Florida.
18:00
Speaker 2: And then I don't know if he dumped her or
18:02
Speaker 2: if she just really decided she made a mistake, but
18:04
Speaker 2: she's like, I screwed it up. I want to come back.
18:07
Speaker 2: And then she comes back three years past. We end
18:12
Speaker 2: up having another child in between there. So those three
18:16
Speaker 2: years past, we have two children now. The youngest is
18:21
Speaker 2: about eight months old. That's kind of where we're at
18:23
Speaker 2: now that that all goes down in twenty fourteen, and
18:28
Speaker 2: then the trial happens in twenty sixteen. So in twenty fourteen,
18:31
Speaker 2: she makes the allegation, and like I said, I was
18:35
Speaker 2: set up over money. There's some other stuff going on too.
18:39
Speaker 2: She was hyper emotional. I couldn't. I didn't know she
18:41
Speaker 2: had some kind of issues going down. But she said
18:44
Speaker 2: she was medicated. I didn't know if she was or not.
18:47
Speaker 2: I'd never seen him take anything, but it was. I
18:51
Speaker 2: was not happy and I wanted out, and I told
18:54
Speaker 2: her that. And then I was sitting in front of
18:59
Speaker 2: my commander, uh being told I need to go talk
19:03
Speaker 2: to Coast Guard Investigative Services. I get down there and
19:07
Speaker 2: they're like, hey, you're being accused of sexual assault.
19:10
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. It was.
19:12
Speaker 2: It was rapidly down here from there.
19:14
Speaker 1: So let's back off for a second. So did you guys,
19:19
Speaker 1: you guys did do a divorce. Did you guys go
19:21
Speaker 1: through the divorce proceedings like legally or correct?
19:25
Speaker 2: The divorce was finalized while it was in carcer.
19:29
Speaker 1: Okay, So she made the allegation, but she didn't go
19:34
Speaker 1: to the police like civilian police. She went to she did.
19:39
Speaker 2: So what happens is she goes to the civilian police.
19:43
Speaker 2: They they they do an investigation. They talked to her,
19:48
Speaker 2: they tell her they recommend for her to go get
19:51
Speaker 2: a go see A saying to get an examination kit done. Well,
19:55
Speaker 2: she goes to two. And we didn't find out that
19:58
Speaker 2: there was two kits done until way, which ended up
20:01
Speaker 2: causing some kind of evidential problem. But anyway, she goes
20:04
Speaker 2: to see two. They don't have findings. The civilian authorities
20:11
Speaker 2: in Virginia Beach, because that's where we lived, they were
20:14
Speaker 2: defining and move forward with anything, and then they just
20:16
Speaker 2: kind of have this I don't I don't know if
20:18
Speaker 2: it was specific to that matter or if it's like
20:22
Speaker 2: a just kind of known thing in the area that
20:25
Speaker 2: they as a courtesy they call up the military authorities
20:30
Speaker 2: because they also have jurisdiction. So if Virginia Beach wanted
20:34
Speaker 2: to do anything, they had jurisdiction. So did the United
20:36
Speaker 2: States Coast Guard. So they gave them a call and
20:40
Speaker 2: then they followed. My commander set up the meeting and
20:44
Speaker 2: helped me down the headquarters to be interviewed. Mm hmm.
20:50
Speaker 1: So when I spoke to Arvis, he said that a
20:55
Speaker 1: lot of times they use the sort of you know,
20:59
Speaker 1: in high house military court to deal with these kinds
21:03
Speaker 1: of allegations, right, and that there was I don't know
21:08
Speaker 1: if you know, but that there was a a new
21:12
Speaker 1: initiative or something that was happening within the military courts
21:16
Speaker 1: to be like, okay, we are we are told that
21:20
Speaker 1: you know, there there's this number of uh sexual assault
21:25
Speaker 1: cases and we're not getting enough convictions. So we got
21:29
Speaker 1: to live. We got to raise convictions to match the
21:32
Speaker 1: data that supposedly, you know, shows how how often this happens.
21:38
Speaker 2: The data, the data speaks for itself. That should tell
21:40
Speaker 2: you that they're taking trash charges to trial, you know
21:44
Speaker 2: what I mean? Yeah, And I I kind of just
21:47
Speaker 2: as a kind of segue into that, I can remember
21:51
Speaker 2: having the time to go through our legal library. We
21:53
Speaker 2: had a Lexus and Nexus legal library that we had
21:55
Speaker 2: access to. They'd have to come in and back it
21:57
Speaker 2: up on little discs every time there's enoughpdate. I remember
22:01
Speaker 2: going through and doing a handcount between the Navy and
22:05
Speaker 2: the Air Force or the amount of sexual assault cases
22:08
Speaker 2: that winter trial were contested and we're overturned on appeal.
22:12
Speaker 2: It was that fifty fifty sexual assault cases. And I
22:18
Speaker 2: did this on like twenty eighteen, and I had to
22:20
Speaker 2: go through and hand count all of them, and I
22:23
Speaker 2: wouldn't get deep into details. I would kind of focus
22:25
Speaker 2: on the sexual assault issue. I'd read that go down
22:28
Speaker 2: and reverse and remanded, okay, that's the one, and then
22:32
Speaker 2: I would tally, you know it, tally that versus the total,
22:34
Speaker 2: and it was fifty two percent of cases.
22:38
Speaker 1: M fifty two percent of cases which were.
22:42
Speaker 2: They were contested sexual assault charges and they were overturned
22:47
Speaker 2: on appeal.
22:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah. And the result of so you said
22:54
Speaker 1: you were incarcerated in the brig for it was like
22:58
Speaker 1: three years, a little.
23:00
Speaker 2: Over three a little over three years.
23:02
Speaker 1: Okay, And I mean, what was it like.
23:08
Speaker 2: It wasn't I mean, it wasn't all that bad. I
23:15
Speaker 2: I don't want to say it was comfortable. I mean,
23:16
Speaker 2: you were there against your will. Nobody wanted to be there.
23:18
Speaker 2: It was it was just an easy transition. I still
23:21
Speaker 2: wore my uniform. I just didn't have a rank. I
23:24
Speaker 2: had my name, my service tape, and that was it.
23:27
Speaker 2: I wore my boots, you know, just like I've been
23:32
Speaker 2: doing for most of my adult life. I woke up
23:34
Speaker 2: at five am every day, had breakfast, watched a little TV.
23:39
Speaker 2: I went to a job. I worked in the the
23:43
Speaker 2: the carpentry unit, and then I went onto graphic design
23:46
Speaker 2: and sign making. At some point it was the adjustment
23:52
Speaker 2: wasn't hard. I mean I spent the first six months
23:56
Speaker 2: or so being in there being really angry, you know.
24:00
Speaker 2: But like like any other facility they have, they have
24:02
Speaker 2: a lot of clinical services and things you can go to.
24:05
Speaker 2: And part of going to that is you go to
24:06
Speaker 2: these things and they give you tom Aker sentence things
24:09
Speaker 2: like that, basically good behavior days. And I went to
24:14
Speaker 2: them and there's I mean, there's a lot of value
24:15
Speaker 2: and that there's stuff to learn, you know, I did.
24:19
Speaker 2: I did the best to make the most of my
24:21
Speaker 2: time there. I read a lot of books, you know,
24:26
Speaker 2: a whole lot of soul searching and kind of you know,
24:30
Speaker 2: I don't I don't think I'm glad I had the
24:32
Speaker 2: mindset I did while I was in there, you know,
24:35
Speaker 2: or life on the outside once I got out would
24:37
Speaker 2: have been a lot tougher, because like I said, I've
24:39
Speaker 2: I've adjusted pretty well. I got a pretty good life.
24:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you do. Uh it sounds like you're
24:46
Speaker 1: dealing you you've come out of this in better shape
24:49
Speaker 1: than a lot of other guys, you know, like guys
24:53
Speaker 1: who have been like legit thrown into prison, like real
24:57
Speaker 1: like civilian prisons. Uh, and for for you know, for
25:01
Speaker 1: unproven like completely unproven allegations. So after you get out
25:08
Speaker 1: of the brig, what else is left of you? You
25:14
Speaker 1: you get, you get you said you got court martialed, right, correct,
25:18
Speaker 1: So you are no longer like it was it. Sorry,
25:24
Speaker 1: when I'm trying to think of what is you? You
25:27
Speaker 1: are no longer an active duty. It's a dishonorable, a
25:30
Speaker 1: dishonorable discharge.
25:32
Speaker 2: Correct, I got a dishonorable discharge. I did still manage
25:36
Speaker 2: to get virtually any VA benefit that somebody who's been
25:42
Speaker 2: honorably discharged I'm able to get. And that is because
25:47
Speaker 2: I was in so long that I had an honorable
25:49
Speaker 2: discharge already. Or yeah, because when you when you reenlist,
25:53
Speaker 2: your honorably discharged re enlisted. So I had an honorable
25:56
Speaker 2: discharge under my belt already. I had an honorable enlistment,
26:00
Speaker 2: and because of that, I got my full GI bill.
26:04
Speaker 2: I have access to all the grants, all the loans.
26:09
Speaker 2: If I want any of that, it's mine initially. Sometimes
26:13
Speaker 2: what they'll do is when you apply, because you have
26:15
Speaker 2: to apply, they'll write back and say you don't qualify
26:18
Speaker 2: because of your discharge. Then all you have to do
26:20
Speaker 2: is be like, I understand, however, Comma, here's my honorable
26:24
Speaker 2: enlistment that qualifies me as for your rules and regulations.
26:29
Speaker 2: And then it gets fished. And I tell everybody that
26:32
Speaker 2: it's very valuable. A lot of people don't know it.
26:34
Speaker 2: They think they don't get it. Most most people qualify
26:38
Speaker 2: even if they've gotten a d D.
26:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, and because of the well, again, it sounds like
26:46
Speaker 1: you're like in a bit of a limbo spot because
26:50
Speaker 1: there's a dishonorable discharge, but you're able to benefit. But
26:54
Speaker 1: are you also? Like Arvis said in his situation, he
26:58
Speaker 1: says that he can't tech be considered a veteran because
27:02
Speaker 1: of his dishonorable discharge? Is that also the case for you?
27:06
Speaker 2: I think so, and I don't. I haven't ran into
27:10
Speaker 2: a situation where that's actually caused me problems. It's not.
27:14
Speaker 2: It's not something I wave around a lot or try
27:17
Speaker 2: to use a lot of outside of the VA. But basically,
27:20
Speaker 2: the things I want from the VA I get because
27:22
Speaker 2: of that honorable enlistment. Yeah, I believe Arvist was an officer.
27:28
Speaker 2: Correct me if I'm wrong. They may have a different
27:31
Speaker 2: set of rules for them. I think that may hit differently.
27:35
Speaker 2: Don't quote me on.
27:36
Speaker 1: That, but well, yeah, so it's not pragmatic. You're thinking
27:40
Speaker 1: of it in pragmatic terms. It's like, Okay, it's fine,
27:42
Speaker 1: there isn't there. But I assume because you know, just
27:46
Speaker 1: the allegations like this, as serious as they are, even
27:50
Speaker 1: if you know that there's no way that you did this,
27:54
Speaker 1: but it seems like everyone else either believes it or
27:58
Speaker 1: they don't concern themselves is enough to actually like look
28:02
Speaker 1: into it and confirm it. So they just would rather
28:06
Speaker 1: just let it, just let it go, you know, throw
28:08
Speaker 1: you under the bus whatever.
28:10
Speaker 2: And I think on day one that was the most
28:13
Speaker 2: shocking part, Like I could not wrap my head around
28:16
Speaker 2: why they just clung to it and went full steam
28:20
Speaker 2: ahead from investigation, prosecution and then the guilty verdict. You know,
28:26
Speaker 2: it's it still seems surreal.
28:29
Speaker 1: Do you think do you think that there's do you
28:33
Speaker 1: think that there's some component of this that is politically driven?
28:40
Speaker 1: I mean, not like not you specifically, but the theme,
28:44
Speaker 1: the overall big picture you know that there's just yeah, go.
28:48
Speaker 2: Ahead, absolutely. I mean, the probably the key figure head
28:53
Speaker 2: that we all kind of view is kind of you
28:55
Speaker 2: know Voldemort or Satan is a Senator uh Jilibrand she's
29:02
Speaker 2: kind of leading the charge on everything, you know, you know,
29:06
Speaker 2: the movement. And I don't want to just I don't
29:09
Speaker 2: want to disparage women who have actually suffered at the
29:12
Speaker 2: hands of of of men, women whoever, and have been
29:16
Speaker 2: assaulted or sexually assaulted in any way. I'm not gonna sit
29:19
Speaker 2: here and say that doesn't happen. It definitely happens. It
29:22
Speaker 2: happens in our services, it happens in our colleges, it
29:25
Speaker 2: happens everywhere. I mean, it's a time all crime that
29:29
Speaker 2: that people have. People are horrible to each other, They
29:32
Speaker 2: will hurt each other absolutely, But you know, any anytime
29:38
Speaker 2: that somebody jealously clings to one side and refuses to
29:43
Speaker 2: make concessions towards the other, it's hard for me. It's
29:47
Speaker 2: hard for me to accept them as as being truthful
29:52
Speaker 2: in their in their advocacy for whatever it is they're
29:55
Speaker 2: trying to speak towards UH. And then and Senator Jilibran
29:58
Speaker 2: is definitely one of them, she's she's got a heavy
30:01
Speaker 2: hand on the scales, pushing down on to our armed forces,
30:05
Speaker 2: saying that, hey, we need certain results, we need to
30:08
Speaker 2: see this stuff happen. And I wish man, I wish
30:11
Speaker 2: I had had looked them up and had them quoted
30:13
Speaker 2: and ready. But there's a few in the Air Force,
30:15
Speaker 2: particularly where Senator Gillibrand is quoted in there as having
30:21
Speaker 2: pushed that unlawful command influence down so heavy onto the
30:27
Speaker 2: Secretary of the Air Force, which then moved on to
30:29
Speaker 2: the judges. And this is all fact via via email
30:33
Speaker 2: and the military Peli Court said absolutely, and that's unacceptable,
30:37
Speaker 2: Like we cannot have that kind of pressure put down
30:40
Speaker 2: on people who are supposed to operate this judicial system
30:43
Speaker 2: fairly basically saying that if if we expect certain results,
30:49
Speaker 2: if the line isn't towed, people are going to lose jobs.
30:54
Speaker 2: And like with any kind of scandal or anything like that,
30:58
Speaker 2: I mean, follow them me. And in this case, the
31:02
Speaker 2: money is as a much more nuanced thing. It's not
31:05
Speaker 2: like cash payments or bribes necessarily. It's careers, it's jobs,
31:12
Speaker 2: it's positions of power. And to that degree, I kind
31:16
Speaker 2: of understand why people would just kind of be like, Okay,
31:20
Speaker 2: it's my job to tow the line. It's my it's
31:24
Speaker 2: my quality of life on the line. If I don't
31:25
Speaker 2: do the things they want me to do, I'm gonna
31:28
Speaker 2: do it. And we have people come out after the
31:31
Speaker 2: fact that have played in these roles for you know,
31:34
Speaker 2: victim advocacy or whatever. Let's say, yeah, the system's kind
31:37
Speaker 2: of messed up now that they're not under the thumb
31:40
Speaker 2: of that of that of that pressure anymore, you know.
31:44
Speaker 2: But yeah, I definitely think there's a political component. I mean,
31:48
Speaker 2: Senator Gilliband herself will sit there and say that women
31:52
Speaker 2: deserve to be believed, victims deserve to be believed. Why
31:56
Speaker 2: would they lie about things like this? And then you know,
32:00
Speaker 2: in the last couple of years there have been slews
32:02
Speaker 2: of of allegations made towards political candidates on both sides,
32:08
Speaker 2: including Joe Biden. And somebody asked her what she thought
32:11
Speaker 2: about these allegations. She's like, not possible. He's a great man.
32:14
Speaker 1: You know.
32:15
Speaker 2: Now all of a sudden, they don't deserve to be believed,
32:17
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
32:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but like Brett Kavanaugh is clearly guilty. You know,
32:21
Speaker 1: the judge right.
32:23
Speaker 2: They don't deserve to be believed. They deserve to be respected,
32:27
Speaker 2: They deserve to have their claims vetted and investigated.
32:31
Speaker 1: They don't deserve to be believed exactly. Yeah, trust, but verify.
32:37
Speaker 1: So then the question becomes and I'm glad because like
32:40
Speaker 1: we don't have a problem dipping into this. And I
32:41
Speaker 1: didn't know that Gillibrand was like one of the big
32:46
Speaker 1: I guess pushers of this, right, So then the question becomes,
32:50
Speaker 1: you said, you know, always follow the money. I was thinking, well,
32:53
Speaker 1: who benefits and how? And I think you're right. It's
32:56
Speaker 1: like it's not so much about cash money because they
33:00
Speaker 1: don't really care that much about cash money, otherwise they
33:02
Speaker 1: wouldn't be printing it, like it's not running out. So
33:05
Speaker 1: I think it's about, like you know, power and securing
33:09
Speaker 1: a position. It's about securing power and maintaining what they have.
33:12
Speaker 1: And one of the things that's very, very useful is
33:16
Speaker 1: claiming that women as a group, in a collective sense,
33:20
Speaker 1: are victimized by this system that we can't see or
33:25
Speaker 1: taste or touch, but it's there, and like our propensity,
33:30
Speaker 1: our condition as human beings men and women is to
33:35
Speaker 1: care about women because we need women to perpetuate the species,
33:39
Speaker 1: so we're gonna see them as more valuable. So if
33:42
Speaker 1: you make them into a victim class, then everybody, men
33:45
Speaker 1: and women are gonna both come together and say, well,
33:47
Speaker 1: we got to do something about this. This is obviously
33:49
Speaker 1: a problem. And then you get but then this begs
33:52
Speaker 1: the question why would you throw men? And it's gonna
33:57
Speaker 1: be men mostly that are probably the victims of these
34:00
Speaker 1: allegations because we have done we have done reports on
34:05
Speaker 1: stories where women have victimized men, where women have victimized children,
34:11
Speaker 1: and there they don't become high profile cases, they don't
34:14
Speaker 1: get a lot of exposure. Politicians certainly aren't trumpeting these things,
34:19
Speaker 1: you know from the from the podium, and the women
34:22
Speaker 1: often get a slap on the wrist for the crimes.
34:24
Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about essentially pedophilia in a lot
34:27
Speaker 1: of cases. So if that being the case, it is
34:31
Speaker 1: going to be mostly men that have to deal with
34:32
Speaker 1: these these false allegations, or at least unproven allegations, because
34:37
Speaker 1: you can never know for sure. It's like a notoriously
34:41
Speaker 1: difficult crime to to prove. But then the question is
34:48
Speaker 1: why why would they do that? And I don't know
34:51
Speaker 1: what you think, but Arvis said that it's political insofar
34:56
Speaker 1: as women are the majority of the voter base, women
35:00
Speaker 1: are also most likely to vote, so there is a
35:03
Speaker 1: benefit politically to essentially create a or construct a narrative
35:10
Speaker 1: that men are dangerous to women, and in particular men
35:14
Speaker 1: domestically like not necessarily foreign men, but men here in
35:18
Speaker 1: this country are dangerous to their women, and so women
35:23
Speaker 1: have to vote for such and such candidate or party
35:26
Speaker 1: member to so they can protect them from men. Essentially,
35:30
Speaker 1: does that make sense?
35:32
Speaker 2: It does. And you know when it comes to the
35:35
Speaker 2: false allegations, like why would a woman take the time
35:40
Speaker 2: to make a false allegations? Well, here's the thing. The
35:44
Speaker 2: average person lies two times a day. People will lie
35:49
Speaker 2: more often, they will lie more in depth and complicatedly
35:55
Speaker 2: the more there is on the line. So we have
35:59
Speaker 2: a system where the military or moves responsibility of any kind.
36:03
Speaker 2: If your allegation is deemed anywhere near falls, they're not
36:07
Speaker 2: going to touch them. They won't touch them, particularly if
36:11
Speaker 2: the accuser is a civilian. Take my ex wife for example.
36:18
Speaker 2: I found out later in the process that one of
36:20
Speaker 2: the first things they do once that that kind of
36:24
Speaker 2: allegation meets the doorsteps of Coast Guard Investigative Services. They
36:29
Speaker 2: send them to a family advocate, and the family advocate says,
36:33
Speaker 2: you know, we're real sorry about what you've gone through.
36:36
Speaker 2: Let me show you all these things we can do
36:38
Speaker 2: for you if your husband's convicted. She got two thirds
36:41
Speaker 2: of my pay for three years. She got insurance, she
36:44
Speaker 2: got college tuition, she got stiffens for childcare, like, I mean,
36:49
Speaker 2: that's not she's not six figure rich, but that's not
36:52
Speaker 2: insubstantial at all. She got to go basically live life
36:56
Speaker 2: on the coast Guard's dying for three years and don't
36:58
Speaker 2: have to worry about anything like, oh yeah, and got
37:03
Speaker 2: a slam dunk for a divorce. I have no visitation
37:07
Speaker 2: rights for my boys, but none. I haven't seen him
37:10
Speaker 2: in six years. I mean, that's that's tough, it is,
37:19
Speaker 2: you know, And it's just just so bizarre to me,
37:21
Speaker 2: like to think that people won't make people will not
37:26
Speaker 2: make false accusations. You know, when we don't have these
37:31
Speaker 2: barriers in place, there's no way people are going to
37:33
Speaker 2: use those. Like imagine if they have that kind of
37:36
Speaker 2: barrier removed for any other crime, you know, and the
37:41
Speaker 2: barrier for entry was so low. Oh, we just have
37:43
Speaker 2: to believe women, you know, Oh he stole money from me. Okay,
37:47
Speaker 2: we believe you. He's incarcerated. By the way, here's all
37:50
Speaker 2: these benefits. You know, it's so bizarre.
37:54
Speaker 1: No, but yeah, they do it. And it's also true
37:56
Speaker 1: of divorce courts as well, Like I just divorce courts
38:00
Speaker 1: outside of that, Like I know, I have old friends who,
38:04
Speaker 1: you know, when their ex wife was like thinking about
38:08
Speaker 1: the negativorce. The lawyers come in and they say, oh,
38:11
Speaker 1: here's all the stuff you can do to like, you know,
38:14
Speaker 1: get everything you can out of them. And then a
38:16
Speaker 1: lot of times they go along with it, and it
38:18
Speaker 1: involves these kinds of allegations, whether they make overt allegations
38:23
Speaker 1: of rape or sexual assault, or maybe they just say
38:26
Speaker 1: things like, well, he makes me feel unsafe. I'm afraid
38:29
Speaker 1: around him. I think, you know, he might hurt me.
38:32
Speaker 1: And that is super effective too, So there's yeah, there's
38:36
Speaker 1: definitely incentives. I got a message. I got a super
38:40
Speaker 1: chow here paid message from ZARANX. He gives us five dollars.
38:43
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read it really quick. He says, remember that
38:46
Speaker 1: Kirsten Gillibrand's father Doug Rutnik worked as a lawyer and
38:50
Speaker 1: lobbyist for NXIVM. Gilibrand has stated that she was unaware
38:56
Speaker 1: of NXIVM until it made national headlines in twenty seven teen.
39:01
Speaker 1: Very convenient. So what is I want to see? What
39:04
Speaker 1: that is? Nx IVM. It's a I think it's a
39:07
Speaker 1: Roman numeral. But I'm just gonna look it up really
39:11
Speaker 1: quick because it might be relevant. Uh So, next scene
39:18
Speaker 1: was a whoa, it's a cult? Are you privately? It
39:21
Speaker 1: says it was a cult led by convicted racketeer and
39:24
Speaker 1: sex offender Keith Rainair. It's also the name of the
39:28
Speaker 1: defunct company that Rynier founded in nineteen ninety eight, which
39:30
Speaker 1: provided seminars ostensibly about human potential development and served as
39:34
Speaker 1: a front organization for criminal activity. Well that that was
39:39
Speaker 1: a lot to us. I did not expect, right, Well,
39:41
Speaker 1: thank Choo serans for that. Uh not, not surprised, Like
39:45
Speaker 1: I nothing surprises me anymore. So anyway, thanks for the message.
39:52
Speaker 1: What else was I going to say? So you? Oh yeah,
39:55
Speaker 1: so all this, how did we get to the point
40:00
Speaker 1: where or at what point? And how did it go
40:02
Speaker 1: about that you were essentially registered as a sex offender
40:06
Speaker 1: out of that in Oklahoma, Right? Is that what you said? Right?
40:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's a federal statute and I can't it's
40:13
Speaker 2: it's somewhere under SORNINA, which is a sex Offend sex
40:16
Speaker 2: Offender Registration, sex Offender National Registration Act. I think that's
40:22
Speaker 2: the acronym. And and you know, the military is the
40:25
Speaker 2: only jurisdiction that doesn't have a unanimous verdict requirement that
40:30
Speaker 2: is looped in under that, under that federal code that
40:35
Speaker 2: says that if we're convicted of a qualifying crime, and
40:39
Speaker 2: there's addendems and attachments for what constitutes a qualifying crime,
40:43
Speaker 2: then we have to register as a sex offender. And
40:45
Speaker 2: basically the default for every state, because the military is
40:50
Speaker 2: so different in the way they charge things, is top tier,
40:54
Speaker 2: you know, because they can't they can't narrow it down.
40:58
Speaker 2: And the you know, the basis fort for my exife's
41:03
Speaker 2: allegation was the one that she rolled with. The trial
41:08
Speaker 2: went as followed that she said that I was badgering
41:13
Speaker 2: for sex on the night in question, and she said,
41:16
Speaker 2: just take me. Wanted him to think I was into it.
41:18
Speaker 2: I played along, I switched positions. I tried to take initiative.
41:22
Speaker 2: I told him I love him during twice, and I
41:24
Speaker 2: told him I loved him after, but I was afraid
41:27
Speaker 2: of him, so I just went along with it, and
41:30
Speaker 2: that that's what led to my conviction. She didn't point
41:33
Speaker 2: to any particular events or object or threat or anything
41:39
Speaker 2: that said she was afraid, but that was again, you know,
41:41
Speaker 2: we get to the testimony before that where I'm a
41:46
Speaker 2: terrible husband, and none of it that she's talking about
41:49
Speaker 2: is criminal. It's and it was nothing that I was
41:53
Speaker 2: ready for. I would have been ready to shoot down
41:56
Speaker 2: ninety five percent of everything she said, but she was
41:58
Speaker 2: just kind of allowed to amble about how awful our
42:02
Speaker 2: marriage was and how I was controlling and uh and
42:05
Speaker 2: did all these things that were unfair and mean to
42:08
Speaker 2: her or her friends or whatever. But that's the allegation
42:12
Speaker 2: she went with a trial, and we we presented and
42:17
Speaker 2: showed too that that wasn't her first allegation. She made
42:20
Speaker 2: an allegation to another coast he many years ago, but
42:23
Speaker 2: didn't move forward with it publicly, and once she was
42:26
Speaker 2: confronted with that in the Siegious investigative room, she wanted
42:29
Speaker 2: to stop talking to them. She also she did kind
42:34
Speaker 2: of like a dry run with a close friend of
42:36
Speaker 2: hers a month prior, and Jerry raided to me last
42:39
Speaker 2: night and the friend was absolutely certain on the date,
42:43
Speaker 2: and she's she described this kind of like this, you know,
42:47
Speaker 2: stoic trance that she was in, like she was traumatized
42:50
Speaker 2: by she was doing a dry run, she was trying
42:52
Speaker 2: to see what she could kind of get by with.
42:56
Speaker 2: And it's even evolved after the fact, not that it matters,
42:58
Speaker 2: but I've seen YouTube posts of hers where she's reading
43:02
Speaker 2: in front of people about her trauma and her events,
43:05
Speaker 2: where she claims that I tied her up and took
43:07
Speaker 2: her multiple times that night, or I held a gun
43:09
Speaker 2: to her head. That's another one I've heard. I had
43:12
Speaker 2: an next fiancee of hers call me and be like, listen,
43:15
Speaker 2: for years, I thought you were the worst monster on
43:17
Speaker 2: the planet because of the things she told me. But
43:20
Speaker 2: once he called it quits, gets who starts living a
43:23
Speaker 2: very familiar story. That poor guy. It's just I mean,
43:29
Speaker 2: I don't talk about it very often that every time
43:31
Speaker 2: I do, it's very frustrating. I don't know how we
43:34
Speaker 2: got this far.
43:36
Speaker 1: I'm actually pretty surprised at how well you're keeping it
43:39
Speaker 1: together because i'd be so. I think that the one
43:44
Speaker 1: thing that I think really gets under people's skin is
43:49
Speaker 1: when someone breaks their trust and they they realize that,
43:57
Speaker 1: you know, they've been lied to. I think that like
44:00
Speaker 1: or a lot or the person that they thought they knew,
44:04
Speaker 1: they don't know, like they're they're you know, they could
44:06
Speaker 1: flip on a dime like.
44:07
Speaker 2: That, right, Well, I mean when you're when you're in love,
44:10
Speaker 2: you put on those blinders. Man.
44:12
Speaker 1: Oh yep, yep, no, I get it. Yeah it is.
44:19
Speaker 1: So what does it mean for you that to be
44:24
Speaker 1: on the sex offender registry? Like do you have any
44:27
Speaker 1: you ever like because I know that you said that
44:29
Speaker 1: you're in a good place, like you have people around
44:32
Speaker 1: you that you know care about you and they're not
44:34
Speaker 1: like like that history is not a problem, it seems,
44:38
Speaker 1: but do you ever have any issues with that? Like
44:41
Speaker 1: we're you know, I don't know, like do you have
44:43
Speaker 1: to announce yourself? Are you? Are you not allowed to know?
44:46
Speaker 2: There's been one job where I had to kind of just.
44:55
Speaker 1: What happened. Hello, oh just the moment, guys, I think
45:07
Speaker 1: he had to step away for a second. Hopefully he
45:12
Speaker 1: can come back on shortly. Let me see what you
45:20
Speaker 1: guys are saying in the meantime, we're gonna be going
45:22
Speaker 1: only for a little bit longer, and then we're gonna
45:25
Speaker 1: stop the show. So an actor from the CW series
45:30
Speaker 1: Smallville was a big player in the NXIVMA. I had
45:35
Speaker 1: a feeling I heard that before, and I remember it's
45:38
Speaker 1: Oh he hung up, he had to leave. I guess comment.
45:44
Speaker 1: Let us know what you guys think about what we
45:46
Speaker 1: discussed on the show today, and please share this video.
45:49
Speaker 1: I will try to get him back on again. You know,
45:51
Speaker 1: maybe we can finish what we started. Thanks so much
45:54
Speaker 1: for coming on today's fireside chat, and we'll talk to
45:58
Speaker 1: you all in the next one. Have a good but today, everybody.
46:00
Speaker 2: Men's are machines, dude, Okay, they are literal machines.
46:06
Speaker 1: They are talking point machines.
46:08
Speaker 2: They are impossible to deal with, especially if you have
46:11
Speaker 2: like especially if you have like a couple of dudes
46:13
Speaker 2: who have good memory.
46:14
Speaker 1: On top of that too, holy shit, you're fucked.