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A Thorough Moral Inventory - Step 4 Continued · Not a Doorknob

• 0:00
  Hey, welcome back to the Big Book Deep Dive here on Progress and Perfection. You can find more information on our website. You can contact us. All the links for that will be in the description below. My name is Eamon.
• 0:10
  I'm joined by my good friend, John. Here we go. Maybe they made some like that. Yeah But, but I had a pair just like th- I mean, it looked just like that. You had Birkenstocks? That was a pair of Birkenstocks.
• 0:20
  [laughs] I coveted Birkenstocks for years, and finally I got a pair. [laughs] Oh. Where are they now? Oh, the, now that's a great question. That is a great question.
• 0:30
  The only thing, and there is one thing, that survived high school- Yep... and is still in my possession- Besides you... and for, [laughs] besides me. Actually, I'll think of two things that are still in this house.
• 0:45
  One of them is my Gerber multi-tool, my little fishing multi-tool. Oh, wow. And that thing- Yep... one piece broke off of it. Yep. I've used that- Yep... for over 20- That's amazing... two years, I guess.
• 0:57
  That's incredible. That's incredible. And the other is my CD case. [laughs] Oh my God, CDs. [laughs] I've still got my high school CD case. Does it have the CDs in them? It does. Let's freaking go. Where is it?
• 1:09
  On- I wanna see what the CDs are... only recently has it come out of my car. In fact, Angela berated me because I kept it under my seat- Mm... in my current car for so long, 'cause I still have a CD player in my car.
• 1:23
  Yeah. Yeah. Would you listen to them- I would... in your car? Every now and then. [laughs] Absolutely. [laughs] Uh, were they scratched? Uh, they absolutely are. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
• 1:33
  That's- I've got some burned CDs, some real CDs. Oh, yeah, the burned CDs. Remember that? Yeah, I do. You buy like a whole pack of blank CDs. Yeah. Make burners. Oh, yeah. Ah. [laughs] Get this- That's awesome...
• 1:45
  I got one of the staff at COPAC to burn me Nine Inch Nails, the Fragile double disc- Oh, that's awesome... while I was in treatment. That's awesome.
• 1:55
  And s- I guess we weren't allowed to have music or something for a minute. Yeah, it wouldn't have been Bill. Um, no. It was, it was a chick. Huh. One of the nurses. Huh. Yeah, it was, it was good stuff. Yeah.
• 2:05
  And I may st- I may still have that actual- You may still have it... burned Fragile disc. [laughs] Fragile. Unbelievable. What is wrong with you? Oh. What's wrong with you? It's, uh- What's wrong with you? Many things.
• 2:17
  Many things. Uh, well, that's incredible. Speaking of what's wrong with me. Yeah. We're on step four. I know. Where are we on step four? Are we bottom of 63 or... Uh, top of 64. Is it literally... Yeah, okay.
• 2:29
  Yeah, yeah, I couldn't remember where we were. Top of 64, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I read last time, so I'm gonna let you read this time. Yeah, I got it. And I'm gonna see how you navigate the, um, the chart.
• 2:39
  [laughs] Yeah. See how you read that. Uh, uh- See what you do there... it'll be a quick navigation straight to the next paragraph. Yeah, I think that ought to be pretty good. We'll, uh- That'll be pretty good.
• 2:47
  Do you have any thoughts on step four? I do have thoughts on step four. Give us some thoughts on step four. So the- Tell us about step four... it, it's a lot worse- It's worse?... before taking step four than after.
• 3:01
  This is a case of the anticipation being- Hm... way worse than the participation. Um, inevitably people stop here and balk here and put it off and don't wanna do it, and make it, I think, a bigger deal than it is. Mm.
• 3:19
  Mm-hmm. Like, it is a big deal, but, and you talked about it a little bit last week, it's also- Mm-hmm...
• 3:26
  it's, it just becomes a working part of your mind, a working part of how we live if we just walk through it the first time. Yeah. Get this inventory taking process to be a, a part of our, of our regular recovery routine.
• 3:39
  Mm-hmm. So, and, and I did the same thing. I mean, I, I put off doing this when it was assigned to me. Yeah. And unlike some of the guys I work with today, I had jack crap going on. Yeah.
• 3:51
  I had zero excuse to, [laughs] you know. Right. 19, 20 years old, the calendar was empty. Yep. Wide open. Like, I, I could have done it in a day if I'd wanted to. Mm-hmm. Um, but I put it off.
• 4:04
  I had a good sponsor at the time. It was kind of the old school sponsorship, you know, zone that we were going through. He, we would read this just like you and I are doing. Mm-hmm.
• 4:12
  We got here, and he gave me some worksheets to do, which are- Mm-hmm... they were a dated version of what I still use. I kind of use an updated version of those original sheets. Yeah.
• 4:21
  And we'll talk about that in a minute, too. Um, but yeah, I put it off and he finally said, "Hey, we, we're supposed to do your fifth step, like, Saturday." Mm-hmm. "Why don't you get off your ass and- Mm-hmm...
• 4:33
  write your fourth step down [laughs] so we can do that?" Yeah. And- Hmm... you know, I, I'd be interested your take on, like, the process of writing everything down to thoroughness, but- Sure... it was not,
• 4:47
  it was just not a, a huge deal for me. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that may be, like, discouraging. I don't want it to be heard that way if- Mm-hmm...
• 4:54
  some folks are stuck in the middle of this and it is, like, very long and you are writing a lot. That's great. Um, I was as thorough as I could be. I was young, so I had that on my side.
• 5:05
  Just the, the wealth of damage was not as long as 20 years worth of it to actually inventory. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, just, just do it. Like, that's, that's my biggest thought is- What, um-... get it done.
• 5:21
  I mean, I think you went through this at COPAC, too, but you know- Mm... they ask you to do a fourth step in COPAC. Yeah. And I think a lot of treatment centers have that as part of their recovery regimen. Mm-hmm.
• 5:32
  Like, do your fourth step. How much value do you put on the fourth step that's done in treatment? Uh, m- minimal sometimes, but also here's the thing that I was told when I was coming out of
• 5:48
  CO- uh, COPAC, almost said Cornerstone.
• 5:50
  When I was coming out of there and was actively being sponsored at the same time, David, who was my sponsor, said, "Hey, your assignment from me right now is to do everything that they tell you to do."
• 6:03
  Point out, get out, and then we'll hit the ground running. Yeah. And so, yeah, there was some overlap. You know, I did whatever they told me to do- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm... and, and kind of checked those boxes. Yeah.
• 6:13
  But we definitely went back through by the book. And I d- honestly, I don't, I don't even think I did, like, a written fourth step- Mm-hmm... during my tenure at COPAC. I know I did at Cornerstone. Yeah.
• 6:27
  And I know it was very half-hearted. Mm-hmm. And we even did, like, a sort of confessional fifth step with a guy, and I don't even remember, like, saying anything. So,
• 6:38
  and, and I've heard, r- it runs the gamut, the experience- Mm-hmm... of others that I've talked to, treatment fourth steps- Yeah... and treatment fifth steps. Yeah. The valuable part,
• 6:48
  if nothing else, is following directions, though. Right, right. Like, that's something we're not good at doing- Right... especially in the beginning. For sure.
• 6:55
  So there's something to be said for even if you throw it away and you redo it, just follow... You know, practice following directions. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause we suck at that, right? Right, right. Yeah.
• 7:07
  Yeah, I, I, I agree with that. I mean, it's, it's like a, it's not worthless. Um, and, and I think you're right. It's the demonstration in your ability to be humble and follow directions, follow lead of other people.
• 7:21
  Mm-hmm. And also, like, I think maybe from my experience and then s- just other people, it's also just a good primer.
• 7:31
  You know, it sort of gets people into the practice of what to expect once we get down to maybe doing it with a sponsor. Mm-hmm. You know? So, like, I agree with you, like, all is not lost.
• 7:43
  The work you do in treatment with step one, two, three, four- Yeah... whatever the steps are- Yeah... that the treatment place may have you work through I think are very beneficial. Yep.
• 7:52
  Um, but I do, I see them almost as primers for the real opportunity. You know, to a certain, I mean, let's be honest, to a certain extent you're doing it in treatment so you can get out. For sure. You know? Like- Yeah...
• 8:07
  I wanna get this [laughs] stuff done so I can ensure that I'm- Yeah... getting out as quickly as I can.
• 8:12
  But once you get out into the real world and the rubber meets the road, and it's just, like, your sponsor sitting across from you being like, "All right, let's get this fourth step done." Mm-hmm.
• 8:21
  And do we have the motivation to do it? Uh, and so I think, like, yeah, it can get you kind of in the practice of being ready to really dive in and, and take a look at it.
• 8:32
  Yeah, 'cause I remember how vastly my sincerity and willingness would fluctuate in treatment, and thereafter too. Yeah. But it was just, like, super steep peaks and valleys of- For sure...
• 8:44
  man, I am r- I am on fire for staying sober. This is it. I'm in it for life. Here we go. Yeah. And then you wake up the next day and it's like- Yeah... complete opposite end of the spectrum.
• 8:54
  Yeah, the last thing I wanna do is make my freaking bed. Exactly. Exactly. [laughs] Get off my back. In fact, I'm just gonna lay here in bed. Yeah. [laughs] Even though it's way past time for me to get out of bed.
• 9:02
  That's right. [laughs] You know? So, no, I, I can remember that. Oh. Freaking Bungalow Row, baby. Bungalow Row. Motel Row too. Oh, yeah, Motel Row too. Motel Row back there on the back. God, I was on Motel Row too. Ugh.
• 9:16
  I never made it to that big bungalow. You didn't? The big house? No. I started over in, uh, whatever, if you're facing the highway- Uh-huh... if you're facing Motel Row- Uh-huh...
• 9:25
  on the left there was, like, two- Mm-hmm. Yeah... maybe they were bungalows too, but- Yeah, yeah. Bungalows... started in one of those. Yeah. Those are bungalows, then they had the bungalows here, and they had Motel Row.
• 9:33
  Yeah. And then the big house was over there. Yeah. Yeah. Big house. Yeah. I forgot that's what it was called. Yeah. Well, yeah, there was the big house, and there may have been another bigger house. Mm-hmm.
• 9:42
  But there was the big house that was over there f- was, it was, like, for graduates- Yeah, I think so... who were still s- sort of in the IOP- Yeah... version of it. Hanging around. [laughs] Yeah.
• 9:52
  I can remember staying over there at the, uh... Oh, man, I can't remember that dude. One of those dudes made some magical fried chicken- [laughs]... in that place.
• 9:59
  We, we did have some good eating out there from time to time. Oh, I ate like a champ. Yeah, yeah. I ate like a king. And we got to go and buy our own groceries at that- Yeah...
• 10:07
  little grocery store, the Piggly Wiggly or something. Dude, so two of my, I had the great occasion twice during my stay there of having executive chefs- Yeah... be my roommates. Yeah.
• 10:20
  So yeah, we would eat, like, just freaking royalty. It was amazing. I r- I remember a dude, Steve I. was, or Steve something was my roommate at one point, and same thing.
• 10:29
  If he wasn't a professional, he was, like- Yeah... might as well have been. Oh, yeah. It's like, "Dude, can you stay here?" [laughs] Yeah. Let's go. This is awesome. "Who's got cooking duties this week?" "Me." Yeah.
• 10:38
  "For every meal." Yep. "Great." Yep. "Sounds great." And they love doing it. And they love doing it- [laughs]... and it's delicious. You know? It was like, it was beautiful. Oh, that's awesome.
• 10:45
  No, I totally remember that. Okay, so read for us. All right. Step four. We're on page 64. "Therefore, we started upon a personal inventory. This was step four.
• 10:57
  A business which takes no regular inventory usually goes broke. Taking a commercial inventory is a fact-finding and a fact-facing process. It is an effort to discover the truth about the stock and trade.
• 11:10
  One object is to disclose damaged or unsellable goods, to get rid of them promptly and without regret. If the owner of the business is to be successful, he cannot fool himself about values.
• 11:22
  We did the exact same s- s- exact same thing," or, "we did [laughs] exactly the same thing," excuse me, "with our lives. We took stock honestly. First, we searched out the flaws in our makeup which caused our failure.
• 11:37
  Being convinced that self, manifested in various ways, was what had defeated us, we considered its common manifestations." And then it's gonna go through 'em. Mm-hmm. Resentment being number one.
• 11:49
  "Resentment is the number one offender. It destroys more alcoholics than anything else.
• 11:57
  From it stem all forms of spiritual disease, for we have not only, we've been not only s- mentally and physically ill, we've been spiritually sick."
• 12:08
  When the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically. In dealing with resentments, we set them on paper. We listed people, institutions, or principals with whom we were angry.
• 12:21
  We asked ourselves why we were angry.
• 12:24
  In most cases, it was found that our self-esteem, our pocketbook- books, our ambitions, our personal relationships, including sex, were hurt or threatened, so we were sore, we were burned up.
• 12:38
  On our grudge list, we set opposite each name our injuries. Was it our self-esteem, our security, our ambitions, our personal or sex relations which had been interfered with? We were usually as definite as this example.
• 12:53
  And it goes through a chart of, of three columns. Uh, column one being "I'm resentful at," and it's got a Mr. Brown, Mrs. Jones, my employer. It's got column two, the cause, and why they're...
• 13:06
  this guy's resentful at these three people. And then column three, "Affects my," what part of him that it affects. Sex relations, self-esteem, fear, self-esteem, security, pride.
• 13:20
  And that's, that's kind of the basic format, the, the real simple format- Mm-hmm... that the book talks about. Yep. Um, I'm gonna pause here- Mm-hmm... and I wanna ask you about
• 13:31
  how this holds up still today, resentment, number one offender. Mm-hmm. Is this still a no-brainer? The... It's kinda touted as all form of spiritual disease flows from this. So, um, I think it's the more tangible-
• 13:50
  Mm-hmm... one, that it's a little bit easier to identify. Yeah. Easier to point at. And yeah, it's easier to point at. I think it's easier to deal with. But I think, like, shame- Mm-hmm... is probably the real,
• 14:10
  uh, I don't know what you would say, sickness. Down there at the very bottom, the real root, I think has a lot to do with shame. Hmm.
• 14:19
  Uh, I think it's a worthy exercise, though, because you can't just dive in, straight into shame with people, for the most part. Mm-hmm. You've gotta work your way there. Yeah.
• 14:30
  And so in that regards, I think, yeah, resentment is a good step. Fear is a first, is a good step. Like, we'll, like, we'll go through the, the, the typical columns- Mm-hmm... that are on a fourth step.
• 14:43
  I think those are worthy endeavors to deal with, to pull out, so that you can then address maybe what's down there lurking at the very bottom, which is that idea of shame, just feeling bad about who I am.
• 14:56
  You know, and why do I feel bad about who I am? These things. Mm-hmm. So it makes sense to me. But I would say, like, yeah, it's, um, it's, it's maybe
• 15:07
  not at the very bottom of the list, but certainly a way to ex- uh, make- [sighs]... the bottom accessible. Yeah. That tracks. Yep. Okay. I'm gonna continue at the bottom of 65. We went back through our lives.
• 15:26
  Nothing counted but thoroughness and honesty. When we were finished, we considered it carefully. The first thing apparent was that this world and its peoples were often quite wrong.
• 15:37
  To conclude that others were wrong was as far as most of us ever got. The usual outcome was that people continued to wrong us, and we stayed sore. Sometimes it was remorse, and then we were sore at ourselves.
• 15:52
  But the more we fought and tried to have our own way, the worse matters got. As in war, the victor only seemed to win. Our moments of triumph were s- were short-lived.
• 16:04
  It is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness. To the precise extent that we permit these do we squander the hours that might have been worthwhile.
• 16:17
  But with the m- with the alcoholic, whose hope is the maintenance and growth of a spiritual experience, this business of resentment is infinitely grave. We found that it is fatal.
• 16:29
  For when harboring such feelings, we shut ourself off from the sunlight of the spirit. The insanity of alcohol returns, and we drink again. And with us, to drink is to die. So that's interesting. So- Mm...
• 16:44
  I feel like what it's saying is that, uh, yes, there are situations within the world and people that are wrong. Big time. And people get things wrong. But it's more how we react to that,
• 17:01
  to them being wrong, that is the problem- Yeah... that creates the resentment. Yeah. So it's not necessarily, um, that they are wrong, but it's more how we react to that. Yeah.
• 17:16
  Yeah, the resentment being that thing that we harbor- Mm-hmm... that we hold onto, that we just mull on it. Mm-hmm. It starts to feel good- Mm-hmm... because I'm looking at how wrong you have- Yes... done this thing.
• 17:26
  And how right- How right I am... I am. Or I would have done it- Mm-hmm... or it should have been done. Mm-hmm. Or whatever scenario I think would justify, uh, what, what should happen. Right.
• 17:38
  And, and it becomes, I think the, the blocking off from the sunlight of the spirit is a real good analogy- Mm-hmm... or picture to look at. Mm-hmm.
• 17:45
  'Cause it really does, when I'm, when I'm harboring resentment, even when I'm flirting with that these days- Mm-hmm... and when anger crops in and, and starts to just sit down with me for a little while- Mm-hmm...
• 17:57
  it really does make me sour. It really does block off what I've come to rely on, which is a, a channel to the sunlight of the spirit as they, as they put it. Mm-hmm.
• 18:08
  And then that's why it's like we got death threats in that paragraph we just read. Right. Like, when we stay in that place. Mm. And I've seen a lot of bitter people, as I know you have, in sobriety. Yep.
• 18:20
  That they just stay in this bitterness Yeah And they freaking drink again usually Right Usually Right Like, if you don't get rid of that or past that Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm... um, it can take you out.
• 18:30
  Right It can take you back. Right. Yeah. And I think, like, it's worth saying, because I do... I mean, I run into this a lot of times. There are people that do us wrong
• 18:48
  that we should be mad at. Yes. So, like, there are plenty of situations of abuse- Yeah... that occur to people where they are absolutely in the wrong, and it doesn't necessarily follow the script- Mm...
• 19:03
  of the Big Book, um, to necessarily figure out, what role did I play- Mm-hmm... in creating this resentment? And so, like, just sort of a, you know, a quick little interjection there, addendum.
• 19:17
  I think there are situations where- Addendum... we don't need to figure out, like, what was wrong with me that caused this person to treat me this way.
• 19:26
  Sometimes people are just assholes, and they're abusers, and like, that's, that's a real thing. And that can be worked through in a separate way, outside of Alcoholics Anonymous. So just as a caveat there.
• 19:41
  Well, and I'm glad you said that because I've run into that working with people. Mm-hmm.
• 19:45
  And it's really a point, one of the points where a sponsorship or a non-professional is not really equipped all the time to walk through something like that. Mm-hmm. Because you end up...
• 19:55
  Like, the whole point of, like, looking at a four step, the bulk of what we're doing is looking for the causes and conditions we can control.
• 20:03
  But when we don't actually have a part in something, what do you usually recommend? Is that where, like, professional counseling, you know, trauma counseling- Yeah... really does come into play as- For sure...
• 20:13
  as a needed tool? For sure. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. It's, it's like an, it's an addition. It's an addendum. Mm-hmm. It's a both/and type of thing. Both/and. It's not necessarily an either/or.
• 20:24
  And I think, like, you know, we'll touch on this when we get to the whole, um, fifth step process too, but I think there is, there's a place to have wisdom and discernment in the disclosure of some of that stuff. Mm-hmm.
• 20:41
  Um, simply because as much as we, uh, I mean, it's an anonymous organization- Mm-hmm... and we do the best we can to keep sort of people's stories their stories and not to share. Mm-hmm.
• 20:55
  Um, for better or worse, the sponsor/sponsee relationship isn't bound by a code of ethics- Right... that requires it to stay secret. Right. And I've run into that before too.
• 21:06
  I've had people come to my office where it's literally they're working through steps with a sponsor, and they've got this one or two things that they just don't wanna tell their sponsor. Yeah.
• 21:15
  And it's not because they, uh, don't have a good relationship with them. It's just, like, there may be a shame or stigma attached to it- Mm-hmm... uh, to where they, they really wanna ensure that it doesn't get out. Yep.
• 21:28
  But at the same time they see the necessity in having that sort of fifth step cathartic moment- Mm... of sort of speaking it and letting it go, so.
• 21:38
  And oftentimes those are probably the things that are the most cathartic. Mm-hmm. And so finding a way- Mm-hmm... some channel. It's not about one person has to hear everything. Right. It's about- Right...
• 21:49
  it needs to not be just kept secret. Right. Exactly. Um- That's exactly right. Yep. Yeah, and don't... People out there, don't hear me wrong. I'm not saying don't tell your sponsor stuff. Right.
• 21:59
  Uh, just use wisdom and discernment. I mean, God willing, you get the type of relationship with your sponsor that you need to have to where you do feel as though they can hold those secrets. Yep.
• 22:08
  Uh, but sometimes they, like even... You know, like, I mean, we're people. Mm-hmm. You know? And if we're not sort of trained professionals even to hold this dark, deep, sort of traumatic stuff,
• 22:20
  you can run the risk of having vicarious trauma as just the listener. Mm. 'Cause there's some things you can't unhear, and it's like, oh my God. [laughs] I just wanted to help you, like, not drink, and now I know this.
• 22:30
  Mm. Like, oh, geez. You know? Yeah. So I think there is a, a certain amount of wisdom and discernment to be, to be had in that. Awesome. Continuing on here.
• 22:43
  Uh, "If we were to drink," or "if we were to live," is that where I am? Yep. "If we were to live, we had to be free of anger. The grouch and the brainstorm were not for us." The grouch.
• 22:54
  [laughs] "They may be the dubious luxury of normal men. But for the alcoholics, these things are poison." Mm. Another death threat. "We turned back to the list, for the, it held the key to our future.
• 23:07
  We were prepared to look at it from an entirely different angle. We began to see that the world and its people really dominated us. In that state-" Mm. "...
• 23:16
  the wrongdoings of others, fancied or real, had power to actually kill. How could we escape? We saw that these resentments must be mastered, but how? We could not wish them away any more than alcohol.
• 23:32
  This was our course. We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too.
• 23:46
  We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended, we said to ourselves, 'This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him?
• 24:00
  God save me from being angry. Thy will be done.'" Did that one ever resonate with you? Big time. Yeah. And I go back to this often. Mm-hmm.
• 24:09
  'Cause this is another simple, short, concise, and very powerful frame of reference. Mm-hmm. It, it completely upends. It's kind of like the third step prayer. It takes me out of the picture and put- Right...
• 24:21
  God at the center. This does the same thing. It takes my little feelings, and don't hear that wrong, like- See our trauma conversation a second ago. Mm-hmm. But for most instances- Right...
• 24:33
  this takes my feelings out of it. Right. It zooms me out, puts me up here from a proper perspective, um, and, and it invites God in there into my heart to- Mm-hmm... soften it- Mm-hmm...
• 24:45
  so that I can view usually rightly the other person or situation, um, differently- Yeah... if not rightly. Yeah. Yeah. No, love that.
• 24:55
  The, uh, I, I love this line, um, "We began to see that the world and its people really dominated us." Yeah. I love pointing that out to people. Mm-hmm. You know, it's like, bro, they own you right now. Yeah.
• 25:08
  Like, they're in your head. Yeah. You know, and for a lot of us, let's, we don't even realize how much other people own us- Yeah... and are dictating to us the terms of how we feel and how we act and how we react.
• 25:20
  And just even that idea can a lot of times be enough for people to go, "Yeah, I don't want-" Yeah, screw that. Yeah. [laughs] They don't own me. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
• 25:29
  They don't, they don't dictate to me my terms of how I live, and it's like, that's right, so let's get them out of your head. So anyways, I just love that line. Yeah. Always have. That's, that's good.
• 25:38
  "We avoid retaliation or argument. We wouldn't treat sick people that way. If we do, we destroy our chance of being helpful.
• 25:47
  We cannot be helpful to all people, but at least God will show us how to take a kindly and tolerant view of each and every one." And so I, I do think- Mm-hmm... it's interesting here how they continue to flip the script.
• 26:00
  Mm-hmm. It's like, whoa, whoa, I'm angry at this person, and you're telling me this is the complete wrong perspective, 'cause what I should actually be looking at is how I can be helpful. Right.
• 26:12
  Trying to set this posture of service up- Mm-hmm... which will come, you know, later down the road in, in the rest of the steps- Mm-hmm... of, of how we actually fit ourselves to be of maximum service. Mm-hmm.
• 26:24
  Um, so it's just another one of those things, we've, we've gotta completely change- Right... and invite God to change- Mm-hmm... how our perspective is. Mm-hmm.
• 26:33
  "Referring to our list again, putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely look for our own mistakes. Where had we been? Selfish, dishonest, self-seeking, and frightened.
• 26:48
  Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults, we listed them.
• 27:02
  We placed them before us in black and white, we admitted our wrongs honestly, and were willing to set these matters straight." All right, so how hard is that for people to do? Uh, it, it's usually pretty difficult.
• 27:16
  And, uh, you know, this is the fourth column. You know, we read that little chart on the other page that was kind of the three columns, and this is what you traditionally see as column four. Mm-hmm. All right?
• 27:26
  Where is my f- my fault in it? Yeah. Where's my part? Yeah. Um, I add the word inconsiderate. I don't know if it's in my printouts or not. Um, oftentimes that can become an, a- Mm-hmm...
• 27:36
  gateway for me to show people- Mm-hmm... you know, if nothing else are, are we being inconsiderate of what, uh, right here at the top we just said- Mm-hmm... of perhaps this person's spiritually sick too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
• 27:47
  Maybe they're doing the best they can. Yeah. It may, may be really crappy, but maybe that's honestly all they got. Right. Right. Maybe it is a narcissistic- Mm-hmm... just lost person. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um- Mm-hmm...
• 27:59
  I find that a little bit of explanation usually goes a long way at the start for this. Yeah. Yeah. You know, once they kinda s- see this, it usually clicks with- Yeah... most of- Right... the rest of the list. Yeah.
• 28:11
  It's like, "Oh, yeah. I, I- Yeah... I did have a part there." I'm kind of around that same way. Like, initially it seems like people pretty much balk at it. Mm-hmm.
• 28:20
  Like, let's, let's figure out, like, what role did you play- Yeah... in creating this resentment? You know, let's see if we can take an angle to see if there is a part that you played in it.
• 28:30
  Most of the time people are like, "No, I didn't do anything." Yeah. You know, but I think you're right, a little bit of explanation. Um, and I think I love your word there, inconsiderate. The verbiage too can help.
• 28:42
  Mm-hmm. You know, 'cause it's not like, "Let's see where you were a dick." Mm-hmm. It's like, "Nah, maybe there was a little bit of inconsiderate, simply because you didn't know the situation." Mm-hmm.
• 28:51
  You didn't recognize the situation. So I think, yeah, that can make it a little more palatable. I dig it.
• 28:57
  And this is kinda fifth step stuff, but I, I remember that one thing that my sponsor pointed out to me when we did ours for my own fourth column is, uh, he, he framed it, and I've never really been able to say it great since then, but he framed it in a way where he posed the question to me, and I forget on what specific resentment, but, "Hey, d- do you think that maybe just literally the act of holding onto this resentment, which you acknowledge is not healthy, like, maybe that's your part in it?"
• 29:28
  Hmm. Like, at this point- Mm-hmm... the, the damage is done. Like, it's not something, it's not an active scenario. Mm-hmm. Yeah. There's [laughs] not an active shooter. It's just- Mm-hmm...
• 29:37
  it's in the past, but you're still, you're still holding it- Yeah. Yeah... milking it for something. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes that, uh- Mm-hmm... that's been helpful for me in my own- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm...
• 29:48
  in my own inventories ever since. Yeah. Yeah, no, I dig it. Yeah, 'cause there is a, a certain amount of selfishness that- Mm-hmm... you describing that, I mean, it does match the, that idea of holding onto it. Um,
• 30:04
  yeah, that makes sense to me. It allows you to continue to be the victim- Mm-hmm... which gives you- That's what it is... excuses- Yeah... to hold onto it or act a certain way or continue to be butt hurt.
• 30:16
  [laughs] That's what it is. Yeah. It's that victim card, man. Right. Right. Right. Victims have a lot of trouble getting sober too. Yeah, they do. Yeah, they do. Hard to stay sober as a victim. Yep. Yep.
• 30:29
  I notice the word fear is bracketed alongside the difficulties with Mr. Brown, Mrs. Jones, the employer, and the wife. That's from the chart on the previous page.
• 30:39
  "This short word somehow touches about every aspect of our lives. It was an evil, corroding thread. The fabric of our existence was shot through with it.
• 30:50
  It set in motion trains of circumstances which brought us misfortune we felt we didn't deserve. But did not we ourselves set the ball rolling? Sometimes we think fear ought to be classed with stealing.
• 31:04
  It seems to cause more trouble. We reviewed our fear- our fears thoroughly. We put them on paper even though we had no resentment in connection with them. We asked ourselves why we had them.
• 31:17
  Wasn't it because self-reliance failed us? Self-reliance was good as far as it went, but it didn't go far enough. Some of us once had great self-confidence, but it didn't fully solve the fear problem or any other.
• 31:31
  When it made us cocky, it was worse. Perhaps there's a better way. We think so, for we are now on a basis, on a different basis, the basis of trusting and relying upon God.
• 31:44
  We trust infinite God rather than our finite selves. We're in the world to play the role He assigns.
• 31:50
  Just to the extent that we do as we think He would have us and humbly rely on Him, does He enable us to match calamity with serenity. We never apologize to anyone for depending upon our Creator. Mm.
• 32:04
  We can laugh at those who think spirituality the way of weakness. Paradoxically, it's the way of strength. The verdict of the ages is that faith means courage. All men of faith have courage. They trust their God.
• 32:20
  We never apologize for God. Instead, we let Him demonstrate through us what He can do. We ask Him to remove our fear and direct our attention to what He would have us be. At once we commence to outgrow fear." Hmm.
• 32:38
  Sort of a reframing of the third step? Absolutely. We're, we're bringing this, uh- Mm-hmm... we're bringing God back front and center into this, this- Mm-hmm... section especially. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
• 32:53
  Why, why do you think in this section specifically? Like, uh, in, as a response to fear. It's, it's less tangible. Mm-hmm. Fear is. Mm-hmm.
• 33:05
  Uh, to your point about resentments being kind of the gateway, easy to put our finger on it. You know, it's, it's usually got a person or an actual- Mm-hmm... situation attached to it. Mm-hmm. Where fear is this,
• 33:17
  uh, you know, I, I identify with it almost as this just uneasiness- Mm-hmm... within me that, that does kinda stretch into and touch a lot of different aspects, if not all, of my, my- Mm-hmm... pre-sober life. Mm-hmm.
• 33:32
  Um, and so I, you know, you, you often hear the, uh, the expression of the other side of fear is faith- Mm-hmm... and you, the, those two are the two polar extremes, and- Yeah...
• 33:43
  and I think that's because we've, we've, we have choices to really live in this darkness, and they're our, uh, pre-sober, our un-sober-mindedness. Mm-hmm.
• 33:55
  Or we have the choice to really take the third step for what it is- Yeah... and then begin walking like we're doing in the fourth step- Right... in action into- Yeah... His light and His will. Yeah.
• 34:07
  And honestly, we can do that kind of afraid, too. Mm-hmm. Because courage is not that fear is gone. It's that we're acting in spite of- Mm... this. Mm. So we have new fears that we're walking through- Yeah...
• 34:22
  rather than just kinda sitting in, and, and I'm just picturing just a, a, a sitting back just dwelling in- Mm-hmm... uh, this quagmire- Mm-hmm...
• 34:31
  of, of not being able to really get out, you know, before we, we enter into the, the sober world and are offered a solution. Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:39
  Uh, it reminds me, like you're touching on something, it reminds me like, uh, Jordan Peterson talks a lot about it, just like how God creates order out of chaos. Mm-hmm. But cr- chaos came first- Mm...
• 34:52
  almost as a prerequisite for the order to, to arrive. Um, but it just kinda parrots that idea. You know, and, and fear, I think, I think most, most fear,
• 35:08
  I mean, this is a little kinda out there, but I think most fear in its core is existential fear, and it creates this, like, death anxiety. This- Mm-hmm...
• 35:17
  you know, the, the fear may be of spiders, but why am I afraid of a spider? 'Cause it's gonna bite me and kill me. Yep. Like, it's somewhere, if you follow the rabbit trail of fear, it ends in death. Yeah.
• 35:26
  And so I think, like, obviously, the remedy to that fear of death is, um, God, especially, like, as we know God as a Christian God who, like, overcomes death and declares us, like, immortal beings even in the present sense, um, that we don't have to fear death.
• 35:45
  Mm-hmm. Uh, and so I also think, like, I don't know that that was the intention, but I think it's kind of a creative way of addressing
• 35:53
  that as a remedy as well of, of sort of like, like a soft sell, interjecting God into the fear equation, um, as a, as that sort of eternal remedy to the death problem. Absolutely.
• 36:08
  And i- interesting, too, that in, you know, this is the fourth step instructions, we've got this chart for resentments, but really- Mm-hmm... we've just got this short discussion of fear. Mm-hmm. And then what do we do?
• 36:20
  We ask Him to remove our fear- Mm-hmm... and- Mm-hmm... direct our attention to what He would have us be. And once we commence to outgrow it. And so- Mm...
• 36:29
  it's this turning to Him for the strength Uh, but it, and it's, it's not saying we're, we're cured of it. Mm-hmm. No, we begin the process- Mm-hmm... basically. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 36:39
  Um, and also, and I'll link in the notes kind of the fourth step sheets, we've got sheets for fear- Right... that are basically in the same format. Right.
• 36:48
  So I, I think it's helpful to get them down in black and white on paper in the same way, even though it doesn't really detail that e- exactly- Yeah... in the same way here in the book. Yep. Yeah.
• 36:59
  Um, did, did you do that? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Same type of format? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's the resentment, uh, worksheet and the fear worksheet, and
• 37:08
  then the, like, marketing word, sex, sex, sex, sex. [laughs] We'll probably get to that next time. Yeah. But you know, the sex is a big part of it. Um, what was the other one?
• 37:18
  There's resentments, fears, sex- Sexual misconduct, and then, uh, harms done to others. Harms done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Non-sexual. Which sometimes that's kind of the wild card sheet. Yeah, exactly.
• 37:26
  Like, I don't even think I had that officially- Yeah... the first time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like harms outside of sex. Yeah. Something like that. Which, I mean, look, if you beat people up a lot, then...
• 37:37
  You know what I'm saying? It's kind of that catchall. Sure. You, you done anything else that didn't make it to the list- Yeah... I mean, I could remember-... put it down here...
• 37:43
  I sold some dude a bag of, like, weed that was full of rocks one time. [laughs] Like, put rocks into the buds and sold it. I was like, "Oh, that's legit." You a bad man. [laughs] Sorry if you're out there.
• 37:57
  I have no idea who you were, but you got a bag with maybe a bud- Oh. [laughs]... and a bunch of rocks in it, so hope you liked that one. I don't know. That's incredible.
• 38:05
  You know, I don't know if that classifies as a harm to others. Maybe. Maybe it's one, maybe I need to do a new fourth step and put that on there. Hey, when in doubt, write it out. That was- Sure, right...
• 38:13
  that was the instruction, right? Cut out the, you know, I cut my cocaine and- Yeah... you know, made it less powerful. Is that a harm done to others? Maybe. I don't know. Maybe.
• 38:25
  [laughs] Maybe I need to go back and revisit all this stuff again. Yes. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Bunk acid. Oh, sure, that's acid. Sure. Oh, it's a piece of cardboard- Absolutely... and paper.
• 38:35
  [laughs] You know, but you think it's acid, and you paid me 20 bucks. Right on. [laughs] You know. Sorry if that was you out there. [laughs] Sorry. You know, my bad. Call me. I'll make it right.
• 38:47
  We're, we're gonna- I'll make amends... we're gonna need you to bring- Make amends... an amended fourth step next week. Yeah, I think you're right. We're, we need to just get all these out on the table.
• 38:54
  I think you're right. And what we'll have to do is actually, once we get to that point, we'll have to debate whether or not these are ones I need to make in purpose. Oh, absolutely.
• 39:01
  You know, amends I need to make in purpose. Absolutely. Or if, if I'm just willing, if that's- Yeah... if that's good enough. [laughs] You know. So, yeah. That's good. Always a pleasure, friend. A pleasure, sir.
• 39:12
  [upbeat music] Hey, thanks for listening. You can find more info at progressandperfection.com, and we'll talk to you tomorrow.