Latest / The Hugh Hewitt Show: Highly Concentrated / Director Russell Vought on FY 2027 budget and Mollie Hemingway's newest bestseller "Alito"

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Director Russell Vought on FY 2027 budget and Mollie Hemingway's newest bestseller "Alito" · The Hugh Hewitt Show: Highly Concentrated

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College, All Things
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• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I'm do Hewittt. Welcome inside the Relief Actor Citie, inside
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the Bella. It's draft day, so I've got my Browns
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  Speaker 1: tie on today and we start with OLMB Director Russ Vote. Now,
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  Speaker 1: not a lot of you will know this. There's the age.
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  Speaker 1: There's a Secretary of State, there's Secretary of Defense, their
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  Speaker 1: Secretary of the Treasury. Arguably, Director Vote is more important
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  Speaker 1: than all of them, because he holds the purse strings
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  Speaker 1: over to MB subject of the President's direction. And our
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  Speaker 1: good friend John Campbell. Russ Vote always likes to brag
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: on this show that he knew you were a budget
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  Speaker 1: genius before anyone else did. Do you want to throw
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  Speaker 1: any darts at him? I always like to throw darts
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  Speaker 1: at Campbell whenever possible.
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  Speaker 2: I appreciate John and those are great kind words. And
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: I got my Navy blue tie on for New York
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Giants Draft night tonight, so I'll be watching it with you.
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  Speaker 1: You know, they're going to Draft five right before the Brown.
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  Speaker 1: If they take Caleb downs, they'll be very, very upset,
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  Speaker 1: Director Vote. I want to start by saying, the FI
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  Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven proposed budget is the budget I've been
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  Speaker 1: waiting for my whole life. One point five trillion dollars
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  Speaker 1: for defense, a special appropriation for defense. What turn the
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  Speaker 1: tide to finally get the department what it needs to
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  Speaker 1: resupply and rebuild America's defenses.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think we're at a particular moment in history
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  Speaker 2: where the president is incredibly active. His administration is active
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  Speaker 2: across the country, across the world in hotspots. Obviously, we're
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  Speaker 2: involved in activities in Iran and previously in Venezuela. And
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  Speaker 2: I think the President's been intimately involved in what our
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  Speaker 2: military armed forces need, and we have a great team
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  Speaker 2: at the Pentagon. They're coming up with paradigm shifting ways
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  Speaker 2: of having additional capacity.
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  Speaker 3: And let me just give you an example.
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  Speaker 2: We're trying to get more out of our contractors so
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  Speaker 2: that they don't just add shifts to a workforce, but
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  Speaker 2: they actually have new facilities that they also pay for
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: those new facilities. And the way that you do that
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  Speaker 2: is to then ensure that they have year's worth of
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  Speaker 2: business that they can trust and account for and.
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  Speaker 3: Then plan accordingly in ramp and scale.
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  Speaker 2: And so this is coming out a time where we're
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  Speaker 2: using the military effectively across the globe and we're going
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  Speaker 2: to need to continue to invest in it accordingly. And look,
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  Speaker 2: the Biden administration left us with a lot of problem.
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  Speaker 2: We'll probably end up talking about shipbuilding, but we're trying
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  Speaker 2: to fix those problems. You can't do without the resources,
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  Speaker 2: and you've got to have sound management, creative management, innovation,
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  Speaker 2: but you also have to have the resources.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about shipbuilding. You folks are asking
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  Speaker 1: for eighteen warships and sixteen adjacent ships that are like
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: oilers and things like that. And that's the biggest ship
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  Speaker 1: I think since nineteen fifty five. So I love that
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  Speaker 1: part of the budget. But before we get there, I
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  Speaker 1: noted you brought it, broke it down to a baseline
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  Speaker 1: at one point one trillion and three hundred and fifty
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  Speaker 1: in reconciliation Is that three point fifty inclusive of what
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  Speaker 1: we need to make up for what we expend in
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  Speaker 1: Iran or is that going to be in addition to
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  Speaker 1: whatever supplemental the Department of Defense comes up with after
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  Speaker 1: the guns fall silent in Iran.
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  Speaker 2: Possibly a little bit of both. We're still working on
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  Speaker 2: the supplemental. We have a request in from the Department
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  Speaker 2: of Defense that we're still working through, and part of
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  Speaker 2: that is trying to attempt to assess how long operations
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  Speaker 2: are going to go over there to what extent were
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  Speaker 2: bills pull forward from fiscal year twenty seven. So we're
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  Speaker 2: in a good place for what's necessary, what was needed
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  Speaker 2: right now. We will need a supplemental and it will
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  Speaker 2: not necessarily that would be a fiscal year twenty six
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  Speaker 2: spend as opposed to fiscal year twenty seven. So we
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  Speaker 2: are obviously we're thinking ahead for what's going to be
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  Speaker 2: necessary to put everything back on the shelves and make
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  Speaker 2: sure we have what we have what we need into
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  Speaker 2: the future.
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  Speaker 1: Now direct your vote. When Leader film comes on next
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to quarrel with them a little bit because
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  Speaker 1: they want to do a skinny reconciliation, and I understand
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  Speaker 1: the reasoning get the votes. But if we turned into
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  Speaker 1: a Patriots reconciliation and put the supplemental for twenty six
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  Speaker 1: and all the defense spending for twenty seven, both baseline
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  Speaker 1: and supplemental, I defy anyone to vote against that. Right now,
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  Speaker 1: do you like the idea of the skinny reconciliation or
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  Speaker 1: do you want to get a little bit bigger, especially
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  Speaker 1: when it comes to defense spending.
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  Speaker 2: Well, the reason has informed our desire for a skinny
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  Speaker 2: bill for DHS is just the urgency of what we
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  Speaker 2: are facing at DHS, and it is really a unique
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  Speaker 2: moment in the life of that department.
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  Speaker 3: When Secretary Mullen was confirmed.
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  Speaker 2: We went over the books and what he was facing,
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  Speaker 2: and the department was disintegrating in terms of the sick
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  Speaker 2: out rates, people that they were worried about going and
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  Speaker 2: leaving the agency. And there was no other way that
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  Speaker 2: we saw to make sure that the department gets funded
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  Speaker 2: then to move in the direction of the Senate bill
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  Speaker 2: and then fill those holes for CBP, Customs and Border
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  Speaker 2: Patrol and ice with reconciliation.
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  Speaker 3: And I think what's important.
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  Speaker 2: To leever we know about it's not going to be
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  Speaker 2: our last reconciliation we are fully planning on doing a
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  Speaker 2: reconciliation bill for the normal fiscal year twenty seven. We
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  Speaker 2: did this last year as part of the One Big
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  Speaker 2: Beautiful Bill. We kind of cut through the paradigm to
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  Speaker 2: be able to do a significan portion of our defense
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  Speaker 2: needs on reconciliation.
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  Speaker 3: But we're not relying on reconciliation alone.
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  Speaker 2: We have part of this is a big increase for
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  Speaker 2: the discretionary base that we don't ever create a cliff,
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  Speaker 2: and we want to make sure that that increase goes
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  Speaker 2: through the normal appropriations process.
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  Speaker 3: So this year, we're just going to be people I
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  Speaker 3: think have to trust that.
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  Speaker 2: You know, we're sailing a ship to get these resources
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  Speaker 2: enacted into in a very divided Congress with a lot
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  Speaker 2: of different competing priorities. We're going to get there, but
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  Speaker 2: it's going to take a little bit attacking, and things
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  Speaker 2: may change week by week, month by month, but I'm
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  Speaker 2: pretty confident that we're going to get there.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I did learn to trust the President and you
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  Speaker 1: and Leader Throne and Speaker Johnson because you got the
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  Speaker 1: working Family's tux cut through the One Big Beautiful Bill.
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  Speaker 1: But I would love to say some of the defense
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  Speaker 1: spending get in there so that that demand signal for
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  Speaker 1: munitions and ships and shipyard improvements get sent early and often.
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  Speaker 1: With that, Let's turn to this massive de thing. Let's
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  Speaker 1: talk about the demand signal on ships and importantly infrastructure shipyards.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think it is clear from this budget that
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  Speaker 1: shipbuilders in America and those from abroad who might want
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  Speaker 1: to invest in America know that their money is coming
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  Speaker 1: and it will keep coming, at least from this administration.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know how there could be any doubt.
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  Speaker 2: This is one of the largest shipbuilding budgets in history.
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  Speaker 2: Add it would come to a total of one hundred
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  Speaker 2: and twenty ships. Of those that are requested and funded,
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  Speaker 2: eighteen battleships, as you mentioned, sixteen non battleship auxiliary ships.
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  Speaker 2: But those auxiliary ships are all intended not just to
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  Speaker 2: meet requirements of the navy. You know, fireboats is probably
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  Speaker 2: the easiest one if you're following the press over the
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  Speaker 2: navies of the last ten years of why that's necessary,
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  Speaker 2: but to also cause additional shipyards to come online that
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  Speaker 2: can do this work and then provide competition for the
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  Speaker 2: other yards that are behind and create.
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  Speaker 3: A mass backlog.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I remember you challenging us in the first
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  Speaker 2: term to you that our shipbuilding budgets weren't what they
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  Speaker 2: should be, and we took it to heart, and over
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  Speaker 2: the next two years, you know, Robert O'Brien and I
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  Speaker 2: really spent a lot of time making sure that our
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  Speaker 2: budgets were getting to where they needed to be to
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  Speaker 2: have maritime superiority. What has changed since we left office,
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  Speaker 2: and this is really interesting. We came in just expecting, hey,
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  Speaker 2: you know, we got to just keep increasing the amounts,
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  Speaker 2: and obviously with this budget we're doing that, but the
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  Speaker 2: backlogs are tremendous, and the backlogs have gotten much worse.
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  Speaker 2: So when we left office, I thought, if you just
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  Speaker 2: created the demand signal, you could go from two Virginia
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  Speaker 2: class submarines to go to three, and that industry would
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  Speaker 2: respond to those.
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  Speaker 3: Demand signals and act accordingly.
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  Speaker 2: They really haven't, and we've gone backwards and we have
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  Speaker 2: backlogs in every class of ship.
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  Speaker 3: And so right now we have to do two things.
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  Speaker 2: Number One, we obviously have to continue the resourcing, and
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  Speaker 2: we're doing that, but we have to do it in
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  Speaker 2: such a way that we don't have the wrong demand
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  Speaker 2: signals to industry. That honestly has become a little comfortable
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  Speaker 2: with those backlogs if you listen to how they talk
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  Speaker 2: on their earnings, cause they almost treat their backlogs as
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  Speaker 2: an asset for their stakeholder stockholders so that they can
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  Speaker 2: do buybacks and dividends. And we're pushing back hard on that.
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  Speaker 2: So it's kind of a a we're going to We're
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  Speaker 2: going to support you with the resources, keep going expand
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  Speaker 2: scale your business. But at the same time, we have
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  Speaker 2: schedules to meet, and we have to get to the
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  Speaker 2: point where we can build faster and have worship yard
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  Speaker 2: capacity and competition here in this country.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, Brabo, you and State Weinberg of course Secretary Headset
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  Speaker 1: as well are cracking the whip on the primes. And
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  Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that and see that. And I
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  Speaker 1: talked to I had on Sean Tankaarr about his book Mobilized.
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  Speaker 1: The primes are really fat and happy, and it's time
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  Speaker 1: to make make them less happy and more productive. I'll
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  Speaker 1: talk with you during the break about the new primes.
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  Speaker 1: But have they gotten the message? Do you think they've
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  Speaker 1: gotten the message about now? Is now not five years
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  Speaker 1: from now?
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  Speaker 3: I definitely think so.
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  Speaker 2: Particularly across the whole depth and broad scope of the
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  Speaker 2: Department of Defense. You know, the President's having them in petees,
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  Speaker 2: having them in to continue to say, like what's necessary
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  Speaker 2: to scale in this moment, and we're going to continue
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  Speaker 2: to send those signals to the industry leaders.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to talk with Director Vote for the four
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: minutes during the break, and it'll be back on the
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  Speaker 1: other side. I got lots more to talk to them about.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. Yeah, it's mostly about the defense budget.
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  Speaker 1: I know they're cutting the non defense discussionary spending. I
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: don't care. Ten percent is fine. Everyone can suck up
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: ten percent, but we need the defense spending. Stay tuned.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: So I'm back with Director Vote now, Director Vote, I
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: only own mutual funds. I don't own any stocks. I
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: got out of the business when I started pushing the
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: new primes. You know, whenever Androwroll goes public, I might
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: buy some, but I don't know any palenteer, so this
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  Speaker 1: question is neutral. I did talk to Sham about this.
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  Speaker 1: They have a new system called ship os. Can the
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: LMB just demand that all the old primes adopt that?
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  Speaker 1: Can they just put into the rules all of you
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  Speaker 1: will use a Palenteer or name whatever operating system you want.
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  Speaker 1: But we got like thirty different systems with all the
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  Speaker 1: different defense contractors in the country. No wonder it's screwed up.
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  Speaker 3: No, it's a really impressive budget or proposal.
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  Speaker 2: I got it briefed by Sham as well, and it
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  Speaker 2: was very eye opening, particularly when you look at you know,
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  Speaker 2: you just assume the main problem is workforce and it
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: is a big problem, you know, workforce rates or we're
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: just not paying people what we need to to compete.
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  Speaker 2: But then you look at their technology and they have
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: it down to a specific valve that they know that
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: you can't get the workforce to work more than two
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: or three hours if that valve is a shortage. And
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: then they know there are only two suppliers for that
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: butterfly valve. So it's a really impressive briefing that they did.
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  Speaker 2: When I had it, I went immediately to some of
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: the services and said, are you doing this? And I
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: think they are going down that direction. So we'll see
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  Speaker 2: how far and whether we need to push a little bit.
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  Speaker 2: But I think it's an incredibly interesting bird's eye view
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: that you get otherwise, And honestly, I want to find
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: a way for homeb to get our version of that
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: bird's eye view so we can see it as well.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Now there's also a bunch of people out there like
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Palmer Lucky. I used to live in Orange County and
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I'd see Palmer occasion. I don't know. I'm he's cut
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: quite the figure in his flip flops and his Hawaiian shirts.
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  Speaker 1: But he's an innovator. I mean, he's like you. I'm
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: the guy just way smart. Any idea about giving some
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: of our best new talent dollops of money and saying, hey,
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  Speaker 1: we need a drone. They can go x thousand miles
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  Speaker 1: and carry X amount of munition. It's got to launch
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: from anywhere on the ground the platform give us, give
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: us four prototypes from which we can pick as opposed
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: to doing procurem at the old fashioned way. Are you
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  Speaker 1: an innovator in that regard?
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  Speaker 2: No, I mean that's the direction that I think the
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  Speaker 2: Department and we want to move. You know, incredibly impressive.
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  Speaker 2: You know, they work on low cost munitions and a
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: number of other items where they put their own capital,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: invest it and they come up with something they think
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: we need. They do their own research, and then they
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: try to sell it to us, and it's it's it's
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  Speaker 2: it's really incredible. I was out there not too too
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: long ago visiting their factory when I was at the
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Reagan Defense Forum, and I think that's we are looking
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: at that, uh, and that is we don't we want
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: to make sure there's a blend.
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  Speaker 4: You know.
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  Speaker 2: We we have these big prime contractors that have operated
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: on a particular model that you can't you know, change
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: on in one day, you can't pivot in one week.
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  Speaker 2: But that is that, I think is the future, and
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  Speaker 2: we want to make sure we're providing the right demand
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  Speaker 2: signals there to where people are successful and to the
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: extent that the current contractors can move in that direction
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: over time of just investing their own money as opposed
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: to investing in dividends and grow their company at quarter
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: and link give us things that they know we need.
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  Speaker 1: Amen, we'll be right back on the network. Stand by.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Welcome back in America. I'm here you talking with omb Director
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Russ Vote, probably the most powerful member in every discussion
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: in a cabinet that's got more than one person involved
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: in it, with the President Director Vote. Let's talk a
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: little bit about getting money out your budget is a proposal,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: and you have to persuade. Congress gets persuaded, they and
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: they appropriate. Then the Pentagon's got to alligate, allocate the
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: money to prime and then it's got to get out.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: You can't make a cap X expenditure on a drone
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: on a ship on the border well until the money's
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: actually in your hand. Do you do you see Pentagon
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: advancing their ability to get the money through the system
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: to the contractors.
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  Speaker 3: I think so.
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  Speaker 2: I have not, you know, been concerned about our ability
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: to get the money out the door. My main concern
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: is extent to which we just all of our lives
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: are budgeting. You know, we're already working on the next
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: budget with regard to DOW and I think over time
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: that should change that people can spend more of their
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: time working on reforms and and move the ball forward.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: And they are, but there's an amount of time in
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: the day.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: But we have.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Challenges in terms of getting this passed and secure through Congress.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: But thankfully we have I think, done paradigm strategic work
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: to be able to use reconciliation and other processes to
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: make sure we're not requiring Democrats all the time to
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: get this funding done.
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  Speaker 3: So a lot of to do. You're right, this is.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: The proposal phase, and now we've got to get it
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: executed and secured.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Now, everyone should be on board with Golden Dome. After
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: the war that we are still in and we are watching,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Golden Dome obviously becomes a necessity for the defense of
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: the United States. But everyone can say yay, and everyone
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: can appropriate the money. How in the world are we
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: going to get out to the field with the missile
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: interceptors built and deployed in the appropriate places around the country.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Tom Cotton today was calling for making sure that our
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: power plans are not exposed. That's a lot more, not
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: just our shipyard, not just our bases, but now we
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: have to defend a bunch of points that we hadn't
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: previously thought about before.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I can't imagine the challenges that the DOW faces
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: to not only ensure that our warfighters across the globe
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: have what they need, but also to ensure that we
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: are protecting everything we do here. We will resource everything
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: that's needed. I'll let the folks at DOOW, you know,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: respond with the urgency of those types of oversight ideas
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: and initiatives that are coming from the Hill. But I'm
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: confident that with this budget, I think, you know, finally
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: at the levels of four and a half percent or
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: so that has been called for, we finally have the
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: resources that are there to be able to ensure that
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: we can cover what people have drawn attention to.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Now, you mentioned during the break director vote that our
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: workforce is not paid enough. They're finding it incredibly hard
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to buy a house or even rent a house near
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the shipyards, for example, in San Diego or Portsmouth, New Hampshire,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: or Bath Maine. It's hard to find anything in the
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: budget about the Pentagon. Go out and build these people
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: housing like you used to build housing for officers and
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: enlisted people. Build housing for your workforce and guarantee them
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: the right for as long as they work at the
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: shipyard or the munitions plant, they can live there.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: You know, we have really healthy increases for military construction
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: in this budget. UH. And something that I've as I've
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: visited UH military bases and installments, I've been keeping my
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: eyes on, like what's what's what? What are what are
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: the troops and sailors living in?
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: UH?
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: And sometimes we need to make some significant investments so
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: that people are are are living in in dorms and
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: that have uh, you know, air conditioned and and they
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: have they have a modern ability to live and work
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: and provide for their families. And so this is the
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: type of budget that's going to be addressed to that.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: And then when it comes to the shipbuilders, I mean,
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: they're not they're not. They're they're working for private companies.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: We've got to be able to ensure that the incentives
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: are there for the companies to pay their workers more
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: so that we put those stories away. And they've been
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: real stories of fast food companies paying more than you
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: could see at the at the at the local shipbuilding
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: country company. And and that is something that you know,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: we were watching very carefully. You used to be able
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: to have three or four times as a shipbuilder than
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: what you would make at the.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: Average workforce wage.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Now it's one point two one point four, accord into
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: a recent study. So we are watching that very carefully.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: And we think that's part of what's necessary in terms
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: of putting pressure on these contractors when they do a
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: fixed price contract, and we want to move people towards
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: fixed price contracts, it has to have a realistic view
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: of what's necessary to be able to pay their workers
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: appropriately and meet the and meet the calendar deadline.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my hometown was full of union guys, car builders
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: and steel workers. I think your dad was in the trade.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: They are it's hard work, they'll do it, they love
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: doing it. They're craftsmen. But you got to pay them
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: so that they got to have a house and send
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: their family to school and feed them. And I don't
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: think the defense industry has kept up with this. I'm
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: glad that you're talking about it. I want to close
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: with your last paragraph in the top line, support artificial
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: intelligence and quantum research and you go and talk about budget.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: If David sach sitting down with you and talking about this,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: because it seems to me his counsel and you have
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: got to make some big decisions about how we're going
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: to go about things like anthropic and their meet those
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: that whether it's a danger or a breakthrough. How do
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: you know what you're buying. You don't want to buy
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Frankenstein's monster, but you want to buy one that we
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: can control.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Sure, And those are active conversations.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: David's a part of them. Pete and Steve at the
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Dow are part of those conversations. We're we're We're going
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: to ensure that we use artificial intelligent intelligence responsibly and
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: that we have we go with the right companies that
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: are willing to do this in an American way with
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: respect for them both the need to be able to
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: use the military on our own terms and also to
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: ensure that it's done in a safe and responsible way.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: And I you know, I'm thankful that there are people
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: smarter than me with regard to AI, like David that
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: are part of leading those conversations.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: But we're going to resource it effectively.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Last question about President Trump and the Golden Fleet. I
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: think this is great. Like you say, with Golden Dome,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of the other stuff matters, but Golden Dome
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: and Golden Fleet, how often do they ask you about it?
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Is it like you get briefed every day before you
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: go to see the President on what ships have rolled
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: down the line or what parts of the lasers have
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: been built.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: You know, the President is very interested in the Golden Fleet,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: the battleship, the airtracraft carriers.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: I mean he is.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: He has a lot of interest and believe this is
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: incredibly important. Talk to him just yesterday on these issues.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: And so it's one of the reasons we want to
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: get it fixed so bad, not just because it's it
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: is necessary, but I think he's brought an attention to
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: what the potential of what this could be for the country,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: and when we talk about bringing the battleships back, which
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: is kind of the front and center of the Golden Fleet,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: and then making sure that we have all the smaller
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: ships that are needed for coverage to deal with all
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: of the requirements that we have militarily across the world.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: So he's very leaning forward on this, and that's why
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: we at Office of Management Budget are trying to make
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: sure from all of government perspective, we can rally the
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: government not just DOOW but Coastguard DOT to make sure
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: that we're thinking about how to scale industrial capacity at
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: competition and make sure we get.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: What we bonus question though a voonus question we got
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: less than a minute. Director. The United States Navy nabbed
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: two oilers over the last four days that were full
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: of hot Iranian oil. I think four million barrels total.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Who gets that oil and the profits there from we
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: don't send it to Iran? Does that go into our
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: strategic reserve? Does it go to Iranian victims? Of terror.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Who does it go to.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: It's a great question. I'm not going to speak to
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: that and get myself in trouble, Hugh.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: I'm going to foul that pitch off and let either
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Chris Right or Scott best An answer him.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'll trying to get either of both of them
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: to do so. Russ Vote, thank you for joining me,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: mister director and honor to talk to Keep doing what
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: you're doing. Great budget, Good luck with the Hill. I'll
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: be right back in America's features. Welcome back in America,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: I Hugh Hewett. I met my next guest in nineteen eighty.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: I have known Fred Ryan that long. He is the
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: retired publisher of the Washington Post. He is still the
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: chairman of the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation, and we're gonna
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: be doing a thing with the foundation in Washington, d C.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Which we'll talk about. But Fred, I got to tell you.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: I'm prompted, and unbeknownst to me, Russ Volte just brought
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: up the Defense Forum Sua Sponte talking about when he
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: visited Theanderrol facilities when he was out there for the
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Reagan Defense Foundation Forum last winter. You've built quite an
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: extraordinary event. Out there.
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: Well, thanks you and great to be with you today.
• 24:00
  Speaker 6: And yes, we do a lot in the national security
• 24:04
  Speaker 6: defense space. We have this Defense Forum we've had for
• 24:06
  Speaker 6: a dozen years or so. Next month we have the
• 24:09
  Speaker 6: Economic Forum, where we have CEOs and top government officials
• 24:14
  Speaker 6: there to talk about the economy. Because those are a
• 24:17
  Speaker 6: couple of areas that have been very key to the
• 24:19
  Speaker 6: Reagan Foundation. And the most recent one, the one and
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: I'm very passionate about and involved in, is our center
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: on Civility and Democracy. Another area that we feel is
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: very important in the conversation.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Today, and that's where my old boss and colleague from
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the Washington Post, Ruth Marcus, and I are going to
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: join together at the Reagan Foundation DC offices on April
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: twenty eighth to talk about disagreeing with civility and finding
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: common ground despite deep differences. Fred, what gave you the
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: idea for this series? We're not the first and we're
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: not going to be the last. Why did you start it?
• 24:54
  Speaker 6: Well, you know, we find ourselves in such a divided
• 24:57
  Speaker 6: space right now. You've seen this to tistics where the
• 25:01
  Speaker 6: country is so separated, so polarized. But the encouraging news
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: is people want to find a way past this. We
• 25:08
  Speaker 6: did some surveys of our own that said people are
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: looking overwhelming majorities saying we have to find a way
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: to get past this and come together as one country again.
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: So what we have found is if we can model
• 25:20
  Speaker 6: good examples of this, it gives something that people can
• 25:24
  Speaker 6: see how the system actually works and how we can
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: all benefit from it.
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: And we've been doing a series of events.
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: We've had government officials, we've had jurists, we've had historians,
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: we've had athletes from opposing sports teams talk about again
• 25:39
  Speaker 6: how they may have huge differences, but they have a
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: respect for each other and they find a way to
• 25:44
  Speaker 6: achieve common ground. And we're excited to have you and
• 25:48
  Speaker 6: Ruth Marcus here to talk about how two people who
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: are really iconic in the commentary space of the media
• 25:55
  Speaker 6: and who disagree in big ways still can be civil,
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: respectful of each other and have a conversation where they
• 26:03
  Speaker 6: show that they respect even though they differ, they respect
• 26:06
  Speaker 6: the other point of view, and they realize they have
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: a lot of things that they also agree on.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Ruth is an extraordinary writer and a superb legal brain,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: and we just disagree. I like to say she's wrong,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: not rotten, and she likes to say I'm wrong, I'm
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: not rotten. And we've gotten along for a long time,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: for over a decade, and we share friends going back
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: forty years. How hard is it to find? I think
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: it's easier among boomers than it is, say, among Gen
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: z ers. Is that your experienced friend Fred To find
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: people who can disagree amicably without throwing things.
• 26:43
  Speaker 6: Well, we've kind of found ourselves in an environment today
• 26:46
  Speaker 6: where if you think somebody has a bad idea, you
• 26:50
  Speaker 6: just conclude that they're a bad person, and that stops
• 26:54
  Speaker 6: us from moving any further on areas where we are
• 26:57
  Speaker 6: aligned and when we do agree. So we've tried to
• 27:01
  Speaker 6: get people from across the board. As you mentioned, there's
• 27:03
  Speaker 6: some generational differences. One area that is a big contributor
• 27:08
  Speaker 6: to this, and it affects more of the Gen Z
• 27:11
  Speaker 6: than people of our generation, is just.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: The social media.
• 27:14
  Speaker 6: Social media has evolved to become a place where no
• 27:18
  Speaker 6: matter how twisted or distorted your view is, you can
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: have fine people who share that.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Outrage is the oxygen that drives social media.
• 27:28
  Speaker 6: We've done research that shows it's every bit as addicting
• 27:31
  Speaker 6: as drugs, alcohol, this outrage that people get, and the
• 27:35
  Speaker 6: social media model for not all, but some of the
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: platforms is to up the outrage to give you more
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: to keep you on the site. And that's something that
• 27:45
  Speaker 6: is just so counter productive when it comes to having
• 27:48
  Speaker 6: civil relationships with your neighbors and people in your industry
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: and if you're in public office with other elected officials.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: So Ruth and I are getting together with you and
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: others on April twenty eight, but anyone can participate from
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: around the country in any of the Common Ground forums,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: and it's pretty easy to sign up. Fred, what's the
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: best place for them to.
• 28:09
  Speaker 6: Do that, Well, we have a full capacity crowd for
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: you and Ruth on Tuesday. You were looking forward to
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: welcoming you here. But we also stream it and get
• 28:19
  Speaker 6: a very large audience. If they go to Reaganfoundation dot org,
• 28:24
  Speaker 6: they'll see our calendar events on the Center of Civility
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: and Democracy and they could click the link and they
• 28:29
  Speaker 6: can join us remotely and we take questions remotely.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: So it's a chance for people to anticipate across.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: The country, not just next week, but going forward. The
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Common Ground initiative is when I hooy, applaud, I think
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: everyone ought to and Fred came up with it. Fred Ryan,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: always good to see and speak with you. And Reagan
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Foundation dot org for more. Stay tuned, America. I'll be
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: able to talk about the Browns next on the uu
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: A chef Welcome Back America. I'm gonna do it. Eleana
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Y Johnson is the editor in chief of the Washington
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Free Beacon and a frequent contributor to the Commentary podcast,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: so she was not on this morning. Matt Contnetti was
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: on this morning. Do you take Thursdays off? Eliana? Are
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: you any time? Do you crossover with Matt occasionally?
• 29:19
  Speaker 7: You know, I've been taking off Thursdays and Fridays, But
• 29:21
  Speaker 7: I actually haven't been on this whole week because I've
• 29:23
  Speaker 7: been traveling. So I will be back on tomorrow morning.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm relieved. I was wondering what was going on,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: so Ellianna. A lot of people are opining that the
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: United States is not winning in Iran and may have
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: already lost. I think that's absurd. I can't tell you
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: how absurd I think that is, but I want to
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: know what year take is about that opinion.
• 29:48
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that's wrong, and I think we much
• 29:51
  Speaker 7: of it depends on our willingness to see out this blockade,
• 29:55
  Speaker 7: which I think is the right policy. I learned today,
• 30:00
  Speaker 7: just read today that we are now at the point
• 30:02
  Speaker 7: where Iran cannot export enough oil and there's nowhere for
• 30:07
  Speaker 7: its oil to go, and they may have to shut
• 30:09
  Speaker 7: in their wells. And that oil is obviously the source
• 30:14
  Speaker 7: of revenue for the IRGC. And we're hitting the point
• 30:18
  Speaker 7: in this blockade where Iran is not going to be
• 30:21
  Speaker 7: able to pay its military and this is where it's
• 30:25
  Speaker 7: going to start to hurt, and we are aiming for
• 30:28
  Speaker 7: an economic collapse of this regime. We're also seeing, Hugh
• 30:32
  Speaker 7: that you know, the Institute for the Study of War,
• 30:35
  Speaker 7: which is where I go for information on this is
• 30:39
  Speaker 7: the forces in charge there, which is the IRGC, cannot
• 30:42
  Speaker 7: reach a consensus position. They're essentially unable to negotiate. And
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: so Trump is left with no other option but to
• 30:50
  Speaker 7: see this blockage through and hope to force an economic
• 30:53
  Speaker 7: collapse of the regime, otherwise to resume military hostilities.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: The millennials and gen z are used to rapid resolution
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: and they want to see it. They're not going to see.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: For example, over the course of the last four days,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: the United States Navy has seized two giant oil tankers
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: in the Indian Ocean, each one caring about two million
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: barrels of oil. I just asked omb Director Vote, who
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: owns the oil, where's it going to go? And who
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: profits from any time? I'm not going to answer that.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: That's up to Chris Wright or Secretary head Set. There's
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: somebody not named me or Scott Fessant. But there's stuff
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: going on that people can't see. Because they can't see it,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: they're jumping in the clusion it's not happening. I think
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: the opposite is the case. We shouldn't know what the
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: CIA is doing in Iran, we shouldn't know what Massad's
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: doing there. I just trust him, do you.
• 31:49
  Speaker 6: Well?
• 31:50
  Speaker 8: I think that's right.
• 31:51
  Speaker 7: And one of the one thing you didn't mention, Hugh,
• 31:53
  Speaker 7: aside from what our covert operations may be in Iran
• 31:57
  Speaker 7: and the most SADS covert operations may be, you know
• 32:00
  Speaker 7: what COVID operations they have made going in Iran is
• 32:03
  Speaker 7: that there's been no internet in Iran for going on
• 32:06
  Speaker 7: two months now. There was another internet blackout in January,
• 32:10
  Speaker 7: and so there's a lot we don't know about what's happening.
• 32:14
  Speaker 7: On the ground in Iran, and I just think it's
• 32:18
  Speaker 7: so much of what's happening there is really really hard
• 32:21
  Speaker 7: for us to know. I'm trying to be modest about,
• 32:24
  Speaker 7: you know, forming my opinions about what's happening in this conflict,
• 32:28
  Speaker 7: but we sure do see a lot of doom saying
• 32:31
  Speaker 7: from the mainstream press and a lot of confidence about
• 32:36
  Speaker 7: it more more certainly more than I feel about my
• 32:40
  Speaker 7: own views about this. I just hope the president is
• 32:42
  Speaker 7: willing to see this conflict through to a victory.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: You see, I think we've smashed Iranian military, the ARTECHE
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: and the RGC fairly thoroughly. But then somebody, an unnamed
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: source in the so called intelligence community, tells elite media that, oh,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: they've actually got fifty percent of their launchers and forty
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: percent of their missiles left, contradicting claims made by Prime
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Minister and nat Nahou or Department of War officials. And
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know that they aren't doing what they did
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: to us in two thousand and seven. And I don't
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: remember if I don't know if you remember this, Eleana.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: In two thousand and seven, the IC leaked a report
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: to President George W. Bush that Iran had abandoned their
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: nuclear program. We later found out because that Yaho stole
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: the file. They hadn't, but someone in the IC wanted
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: to put the tap the brakes on Bush, so they
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: leaked that. I don't trust unnamed sources in the IC.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: I just don't, do you.
• 33:41
  Speaker 7: Oh, I remember that acutely, Hugh. I mean, remember it
• 33:45
  Speaker 7: was the intelligence community as well, who also told us
• 33:48
  Speaker 7: they were absolutely certain Saddam had nuclear weapons. And I'm
• 33:51
  Speaker 7: old enough to remember when fifty whatever intelligent members of
• 33:55
  Speaker 7: the intelligence community told us that Hunter Biden's laptop was
• 34:00
  Speaker 7: Rosian disinformation op. So again, there are motives, you know.
• 34:04
  Speaker 7: I'm in the profession of journalism. People are motivated to speak.
• 34:08
  Speaker 7: People have motives when they speak to you off the
• 34:11
  Speaker 7: record and are pushing a narrative.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, I look for bottom lines for me. The bottom
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: line is that they renounce en Richmond publicly. They turn
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: over their highly enriched uranium to the extent that we
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: can find it. It's not destroyed. They agreed to limits
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: on their missile program and to any time, anywhere inspection,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: and they do something concrete for the people of Iran.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: What are your red lines of success. Eliana, I agree
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: with you, Hugh.
• 34:42
  Speaker 7: I think we need to keep the main thing, the
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: main thing, the reason that we undertook this campaign, and
• 34:47
  Speaker 7: the thing that's been on the front of this president's
• 34:50
  Speaker 7: mind for the past thirty years or so, is Iran
• 34:54
  Speaker 7: cannot develop a nuclear weapon, So the uranium needs to
• 34:58
  Speaker 7: come out of the country. You're right, they must commit
• 35:01
  Speaker 7: to never developing a nuclear weapon, and it needs to
• 35:04
  Speaker 7: be a real regime of inspections, not one run by
• 35:07
  Speaker 7: the UN, but run with a major American oversight, and
• 35:11
  Speaker 7: one that the American people and our allies in the
• 35:15
  Speaker 7: world can actually have confidence in.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Now. I think the President is rightly angry when people say, oh,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: that's jcp e LA two point zero. Not a lot
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: of people remember how bad JCPOA one point zero was,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: but it acknowledged their right to enrich and they started
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: to immediately, and then they ramped it up immediately, even
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: before Trump took us out of JCPOA. Do we have
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: to go back and relitigate JCPOA again.
• 35:43
  Speaker 7: Well, I think if Trump reaches any deal with Iran,
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: if any of this has resolved through diplomacy, and I'm skeptical, Hugh,
• 35:51
  Speaker 7: that that will happen. Given the situation in Iran, the
• 35:57
  Speaker 7: president's critics will compare it to the JCPOA, and they'll
• 36:02
  Speaker 7: compare compare it unfavorably to that and say this could
• 36:06
  Speaker 7: have been done without engaging militarily. That's obviously nonsense. Under
• 36:10
  Speaker 7: the JCPOA, Iran would have a nuclear.
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: Weapon right now.
• 36:15
  Speaker 7: It's it's fatuous to make the comparison. But that's a
• 36:19
  Speaker 7: debate we uh we people are already having and we
• 36:22
  Speaker 7: need to be prepared to have and to say it's
• 36:24
  Speaker 7: a nonsensical comparison if the President strikes a good deal.
• 36:28
  Speaker 7: But I'm again skeptical a good deal can be made
• 36:32
  Speaker 7: with religious fanatics and Ellianna.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Y Johnson on x Freebeacon dot com online, Thank you
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: very much, Eleiana Bajuning, americay Right dot com. The ure ywis,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: we'll come back America on here youwitt it's Draft night.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: That means I'll be watching TV tonight until pick six
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: and twenty four are in VIC. Mattis, are you sufficiently
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: an NFL fan that you watch the draft? Hello?
• 36:58
  Speaker 8: LOOKU, it's great to behind your so. Yes, there is
• 37:01
  Speaker 8: no uh no, I mean you know, I mean I
• 37:03
  Speaker 8: follow the obviously the Washington Commanders, and I hope they
• 37:07
  Speaker 8: have some good picks after another bad year. But I
• 37:10
  Speaker 8: don't exactly hold my breath for these things. It's not
• 37:13
  Speaker 8: as desperate a situation in my mind when you think
• 37:16
  Speaker 8: about what's happening, you know, in basketball, and in particularly
• 37:20
  Speaker 8: the plight of college basketball these days, which is like
• 37:23
  Speaker 8: its own version of a draft. I mean, everybody gets
• 37:25
  Speaker 8: into the portal and nobody stays for four years. But
• 37:28
  Speaker 8: I feel like, you know, that's what happens to professional teams.
• 37:30
  Speaker 8: You like to endear yourself to some legends, but it's
• 37:33
  Speaker 8: not the way it used to be. And these guys
• 37:35
  Speaker 8: move around.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Nobody ever leaves Cleveland. Yeah, you've been nilling. Nobody ever
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: leaves Cleveland. All right now, second subject, This happened just
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: two hours ago. According to Reuters, Pope Leo firmly condemns
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: the killing of protesters in Iran. I condemn all actions
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: that are unjust, the taking of people's lives, in response
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: to a question about reports that Iran has killed thousands
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: of protesters, prompted no doubt by President Trump's commentary on
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: the Pope's silence on that, what do you make of that?
• 38:07
  Speaker 8: Yeah, he's made a few clarifications since our last chat, Hugh.
• 38:12
  Speaker 8: One of them was of course, talking about his line
• 38:16
  Speaker 8: regarding tyrants, and he said it was a speech that
• 38:19
  Speaker 8: he had prepared before the back and forth he had
• 38:23
  Speaker 8: with the President of the United States. And then the
• 38:26
  Speaker 8: other thing, of course, as you mentioned, is just now,
• 38:29
  Speaker 8: which is condemning you know, the thirty to forty thousand
• 38:33
  Speaker 8: Iranians who have been massacred by their own government, that
• 38:37
  Speaker 8: it is a bad thing and we should do something
• 38:38
  Speaker 8: about that as well. He could, you know, the pastor
• 38:42
  Speaker 8: at our parish made a very powerful argument on just
• 38:46
  Speaker 8: war theory in saying that it's something that can theologically
• 38:50
  Speaker 8: be defended. This pope does not take that attack. He
• 38:53
  Speaker 8: hasn't mentioned just war.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: It's not his style.
• 38:58
  Speaker 8: That said again acknowledging that his realm is regarding the
• 39:03
  Speaker 8: soul and not having to do with any sort of policies,
• 39:07
  Speaker 8: whereas Donald Trump can actually affect, you know, bringing peace
• 39:11
  Speaker 8: to the world if he wants to by continuing to
• 39:15
  Speaker 8: put the pressure on Iran.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: I sort of hope that the two of them retreat
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: to their respective corner and responsibilities. Let's talk now about
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: what you and Mary Catherine did on the most recent
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: addition of getting hammered. We got whacked in Virginia, and
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: I refuse to loose in the football and get my
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: hopes up on the court, although Judge quickly enjoined the
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: new districts from going into effect because it was such
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: a slip shod rush to judgment. Are you holding out
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: a candle, nick for the courtier? I'm not, I am, Hugh.
• 39:50
  Speaker 8: I mean, just on the merits of it. I mean,
• 39:52
  Speaker 8: there's at least five or six different grounds to say
• 39:55
  Speaker 8: that this thing is illegal. The referendum that was held,
• 39:58
  Speaker 8: particularly how it is introduced, and of course the wording
• 40:01
  Speaker 8: is misleading and saying that it's fair, it's that is
• 40:04
  Speaker 8: biased language. And again these are actual facts that the
• 40:10
  Speaker 8: Democrats cannot deny. Their only defense as well, that might
• 40:13
  Speaker 8: be the case, but the people of Virginia have spoken
• 40:17
  Speaker 8: that's the defense that you hear Spanberger and Tim Kaine
• 40:20
  Speaker 8: have said in the past. You know, the only differences.
• 40:22
  Speaker 8: We're giving our people a choice, which is yes and no.
• 40:26
  Speaker 8: I mean, obviously they had a vote, but that choice
• 40:29
  Speaker 8: was already sort of you know, the fix was in
• 40:31
  Speaker 8: the way it was worded. Mainstream media I've read say
• 40:36
  Speaker 8: that the chances for this getting through the courts and
• 40:39
  Speaker 8: having an overturned is slim. But again, I'm going to
• 40:43
  Speaker 8: hold out a candle for this because it's just common sense,
• 40:46
  Speaker 8: if there is any common sense left in the Commonwealth.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: I think the judges on as Court in Virginia are
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: intimidated by a legislature which is run by crazy left
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: wing progressives, and I think they're afraid of what will
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: happen if they go the other way, and therefore we'll
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: get a political decision. Next subject, what do you want
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Ron de Santis to do in Florida? It's right now,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: twenty Republicans and eight Democrats. You wanted to get out
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: the carving board and make it twenty eight zero.
• 41:15
  Speaker 8: We're getting to this point where it's like, you know,
• 41:17
  Speaker 8: I after California and then after now Virginia. I said,
• 41:22
  Speaker 8: I think on the show, three wrongs don't make a right.
• 41:25
  Speaker 8: I think we're getting up to four. I mean, the
• 41:27
  Speaker 8: vengeance would feel great, and people are talking about you
• 41:30
  Speaker 8: mentioned twenty eight to zero. I heard twenty six to two,
• 41:34
  Speaker 8: you know, slightly more reasonable. But the tit for tat
• 41:37
  Speaker 8: will go on, and there's lots of people who are
• 41:39
  Speaker 8: just being disenfranchised.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Left and right. You know, it'll be very hard.
• 41:43
  Speaker 8: I think the pressure will be enormous on Ronda Santis
• 41:46
  Speaker 8: not to do that. As you know, the Democrats had
• 41:49
  Speaker 8: now long abandoned. As Hakim Jefferies pointed out, when when
• 41:53
  Speaker 8: Republicans go low, they hit harder. In other words, they're
• 41:56
  Speaker 8: not going high on to be very hard for. I
• 41:58
  Speaker 8: think the Santas to face that sort of pressure and say,
• 42:01
  Speaker 8: you know what, I'm going to say, it all stops
• 42:03
  Speaker 8: here and the madness. Now I wish it didn't begin
• 42:05
  Speaker 8: in the first place.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: With Texas, I.
• 42:08
  Speaker 8: Think we'd be in a better spot. But I don't
• 42:11
  Speaker 8: envy the position that he that he is in. But again,
• 42:15
  Speaker 8: when you look at Virginia, you know, forty six percent
• 42:18
  Speaker 8: of the state has just been disenfranchised, and you know
• 42:22
  Speaker 8: they have they have congressmen living, you know, very close
• 42:24
  Speaker 8: to each other. You know, three would Fairfax County. They
• 42:28
  Speaker 8: never have seen the mad county.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Have you seen the yes vote? They've got like two
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: counties or three counties and the rest of the state,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: fifty counties are all are all no vote blue. It's
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: it's remarkable. Yeah, that's right. I got a that's run suggestions. Yesterday,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: I did an interview with Justice course As in advance
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: of the release in May have a brand new book
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: for children on the Declaration of Inventas, and that I
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: can't release it until May when the book drops. But
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering, as Arts and Culture editor, are you playing
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: a special feature of the best books about America ever?
• 43:05
  Speaker 8: H Well, they're coming in already, Hugh and I haven't discussed.
• 43:08
  Speaker 8: I haven't decided on whether or not we're going to
• 43:10
  Speaker 8: do one giant package for the weekend Beacon or we're
• 43:13
  Speaker 8: just going to spread it out over this one long,
• 43:15
  Speaker 8: glorious summer. I can tell you right now we got
• 43:18
  Speaker 8: some exciting reviews of books coming out about America. We
• 43:23
  Speaker 8: have Ilio Shapiro coming up on Molly Hemingway's book on
• 43:27
  Speaker 8: Samuel Alito in a couple of weeks. We have Richard
• 43:30
  Speaker 8: Norton Smith on a new history of Lewis and Clark
• 43:34
  Speaker 8: that's coming up, tel Fort Gang on Jonathan Turley's book
• 43:38
  Speaker 8: You Know, The Rage and the Republic, I mean, really
• 43:39
  Speaker 8: terrific stuff. There's a new history of George Washington by
• 43:43
  Speaker 8: HW Brands. We have a review of that coming out too.
• 43:46
  Speaker 8: Will Bill McLay from Hillsdale has got he's reviewing a
• 43:49
  Speaker 8: book for us also in America.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: So I think so much. I think Land of Hope
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: is the single best textbook for high school students going.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Have you ever read that? Yeah?
• 44:01
  Speaker 8: No, you know, I didn't. I went to Georgetown. We
• 44:03
  Speaker 8: didn't get that book.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, of course not. Last question, are we winning in Iran?
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Because a lot of people on legacy media want to
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: declare us defeated. I actually think we've already won. But
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: what do you think Vic Mattis, co host of Getting Hamerged.
• 44:16
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I think it's absurd to say that we are
• 44:19
  Speaker 8: losing or that we've lost. You're beginning to see these
• 44:22
  Speaker 8: stories now coming out where there's disarray within the Iranian regime.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: That is a good sign.
• 44:27
  Speaker 8: I'm not saying that the outcome is going to be,
• 44:29
  Speaker 8: you know, necessarily not a hardcore regime or whatever the
• 44:33
  Speaker 8: alternative is going to be, but that the fact that
• 44:34
  Speaker 8: they're indecisive tells me that the pressure is working and
• 44:38
  Speaker 8: that somebody wants to make a deal. And you understand
• 44:40
  Speaker 8: that we hear that the Ayatola you know, is being
• 44:43
  Speaker 8: curtailed and that the head of the parliament is being curtailed.
• 44:46
  Speaker 8: There's a power struggle. It is up to the Iranian
• 44:48
  Speaker 8: people at this point to take control. But I think
• 44:52
  Speaker 8: that if we continue with this blockade, this this blockade
• 44:56
  Speaker 8: of the strait of horror moves, that's the winning way
• 44:59
  Speaker 8: to go.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: You know, I asked for us vote earlier today. Who
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: gets to keep the oil? We've grabbed two oil takers
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: in four days, we being the United States Navy in
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: the Indian Ocean full of illegal Iranian embargoes, sanctioned oil.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: I just want to know where the four billion, the
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: four million barrels of oil go. Hopefully into the Strategic
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Petroleum Reserve, But I doubt that the right grade Vic
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Mattis can be followed on exit Victorino Mattis. Josh Crashauer
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: is the editor in chief of Jewish Insider Josh. Israeli
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: and Lebanese representatives just sat down at the White House,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: and moments before they did, Hesblat fired a barrage of rockets,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: the first since the ceasefire, at the Israeli town of
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Stuua sht Ula in the northern part of Galilee. What
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: do you make of that? Hesblot obviously doesn't give a
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: wit for the ceasefire.
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds to me like there's been progress that's
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: been made that's been well established between the Lebanese government
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: and the Israeli governments as aided along by the White House.
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: And that's not good news for the Iranians. So they're
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: trying to, as they have always done, use their proxy
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: with Husblood to stir up chaos and violence in the region.
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: And that's how I read it. We have seen the
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: meaning that the at the White House between Israel and
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: the Israeli a bastaard at Lebanon. But and there have
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: been some progress in terms of the diplomacy that's been
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: been struck. But it's never been really an issue with
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: the Lebanese government other than, you know, pressure them to
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: to take on HESBLA and to not really really enforce,
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: you know, tough, a tough posture against the terrorist group.
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: But Hsbila still is has got their weapons, and it's
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: still still alive and well. And that that's the ongoing
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: challenge that the Israel faces now.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: At the same time, Iran laid more mind in the
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: strait of horror moves today that follows the second seizure
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: of the Iranian oil tanker by the US Navy. One
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: occurred on Monday or Tuesday, and one occurred last night.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Each of them have two million barrels of oil. That's
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: a gut punch to the Iranian Revolutionary guardcore. So they're mad,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: but they are the ones between a rock and a
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: hard place. I know that the Golf allies would like
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: to ship their oil, but eventually this strait will get
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: cleared Iran. Meanwhile, as the President just explained, it if
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: they don't pump that it falls apart.
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we're in sort of a period of purgatory where
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: Trump is actually imping up some of some of the
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: threats given the lack of progress on the diplomatic front.
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: I think it's pretty notable. The Washington Post just broke
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: a story that the USS George H. W. Bush has
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: arrived in the region. That's the third US aircraft carrier.
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: I remember when we were talking about the run up
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: to the Iran war, just the additional firepower that the
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: UN was accumulating was a signal that the military option
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: was very much on the table. So the fact that
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: you have the hw Bush Strike Group with a lot
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: more American personnel and fighter jets. To me, is a
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: sign that that Trump is putting his chips on the
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: table and we may actually see some some the we
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: were seeing the threat of military action, but we're also
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: now seeing the movement of military personnel.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Now, how do your sources read it that they that
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: the Haiti is in charge or that there is a
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: fracture in the region regime and night fighting going on.
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: More of the latter it does. I mean, we have
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: the younger Iatola that seems incapacitated. We haven't seen him
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: and barely heard from him. And you have the dynamic
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: of potential division between the more perhaps more pragmatic speaker
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: of the Iranian parliament and the IRGC forces that are
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: very extreme and as radical as they get. Uh So,
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: when Trump talks about how he's not getting a response
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: or it's taken forever to hear anything back from the Iranians,
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's a I think an indicator that there's
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: a lot of division within the Iranian really disrupted Iranian government.
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: But you know, no one has a real high sense
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: of confidence on what is going on in the Iranian regime.
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: There's been a lot of damage, a lot of disruption
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: to their military, to their military equipment, and to their governance.
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: But but you know, the actual pieces left are are
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: still being determined by by We're hearing more about it
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: from the negotiations.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Are people in Israel to your knowledge, relaxing at least
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: during this breather? There are no I mean, for rockets
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: of Chhatula is not good for the people of Shatula,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: but it's not a siren every two hours and down
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: to the bomb shelter. Are they catching their breath?
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean, look, they're not for the most part,
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: the near almost daily process of going to the bomb shelter,
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: of having to run and disrupt your life for six weeks, Uh,
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: that is over. But the North you said, you said,
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: Hugh that the North is still very much in a
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: state of concern about Kasbula and the fact that they're
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: still facing rockets from Lebanon, and uh, we don't We
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: also don't know where what it's gonna happen. Is there
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: gonna be more military action because the random is not
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: coming to the table. Is it just a pause that
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: does Trump want to uh, you know, the ceasefire to
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: last indefinitely, which seems to be the indication from from
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: a lot of officials, though, I after hearing Trump's comments
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: this afternoon, I'm actually kind of wondering whether the military
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: option may be back on the table. But you know,
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of uncertainty, a lot of volatility.
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: Uh So, yes, they're not dealing with the chaos of
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: having to run in bomb shelters three times a day,
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: but there's a lot of uncertainty on what's the come next.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: All right, last question, the anti Semitic left and a
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: little bit of the anti Semitic right have argued that
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: net Yahoo pushed Trump into the war. That's absurd. Trump
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: got yet pushed in anything. You picked the decision to
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: attack around for regions that are strategic and tactical. But
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: I have noticed, let's talk about the President and the
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Prime minister talking. Do you think that's in response to
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: the propaganda a route their relationship and their friendship.
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: Possibly, though I know they have been in conversation, they
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: may not be. I mean, certainly nothing. Yaho hasn't visited
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: the United States as he did in February before the war.
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: But you know, I don't think it's any secret that
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: you know, the Nathan Yahoo and other Israeli prime ministers
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: have warned about the dangers posed by Iran for a
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: long time. We now know about the warriors that the
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: Gulf State, allies of our Saudi Arabia and the UA
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: in particular now have toward towards the Iranian regime and
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: have urged Trump and urged the administration to fight on
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: and to win the war. So you know this is
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: coming from everyone who faces the Oranian threat in the region.
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: So look, the politics in the US and Israel are
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: quite vable right now. In Israel, Thattan Yahoo is actually
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: taking a political hit because there are a lot of
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: Israelis on both right and left that don't think the
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: war was successful or didn't I.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Want to finish the job right, They wanted to finish
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: the job. They want to Can you imagine what the
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: un will be like if they go back to war
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: and there's a third carrier. Can you imagine what the
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: next punch would be like. It'll be bigger.
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: And that's the difference between US public opinion and Israeli
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: public opinion. There's dissatisfaction to some degree in both countries.
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: But Israelwis want to finish the job. They think there
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: have been some successes in degrading the ballistic missile program.
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: They think there's the opportunity to take out some of
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: the nuclear material and I think it's very, very doable. Obviously,
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: the patient's mainly economic worries of the US is making
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: Trump a little bit wary about pulling the trigger again.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Already just giving them time to get the Lincoln there,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: not the Lincoln, the George H. W. Bush there to
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: join the forward end the Lincoln. Greek carriers and a
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: lot of striking power, and the A Tens came in
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: as well. Josh Crousher follow on exit Josh cross Ower
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Phoney in the next segment, Molly heming Way next hour,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: So please welcome back to the UUHL. Molly Hemingway. Molly
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: is the author of this wonderful new book, Alito, the
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Justice who reshaped the Supreme Court and restored the Constitution. Molly,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: welcome back, Congratulations the fabulous book. I hope you are
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: enjoying the book tour, are you?
• 53:17
  Speaker 8: I am?
• 53:17
  Speaker 9: I'm really glad.
• 53:18
  Speaker 10: I knew I wanted to write the book, and I'm
• 53:20
  Speaker 10: thrilled that so many people also wanted to know more
• 53:23
  Speaker 10: about Justice Alito. He's been on the Court for a
• 53:25
  Speaker 10: long time, but people don't really know that much about him,
• 53:28
  Speaker 10: and as he gets more important, I think the curiosity
• 53:31
  Speaker 10: about him has grown.
• 53:32
  Speaker 9: So I'm just thrilled with how it's going and the
• 53:34
  Speaker 9: reception is getting.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Now I can attest now, Justice Alito worked down the
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: hall for me when I was at Justice in Bill
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: Smith's office and then at Meice's office, but he was
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: the SG and OLLC. I never met him, and so
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about it. I've never met him,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: I've never talked to him. Talked to a few of
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: the justices. I know some of them, but not Justice Alito.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: So your book was a revelation to me. I read
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: all Supreme Court books, and so I can tell the
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: audience so they know this is very entertaining for a
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: lot of reasons. I want to give you my favorite
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: line in the book, from page two seventy four. Justice
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Leito represents the best of mid twentieth century America, a
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: country that is disappearing. That's not an architectural review, that's
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: a commentary on Americans in America. Explain to people what
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: you meant by that, Molly, Well, we have a.
• 54:23
  Speaker 10: Supreme Court that has quite a few originalists on the Court,
• 54:26
  Speaker 10: but they don't always vote the same way.
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 54:29
  Speaker 10: Originalists are people who care about the original meaning of
• 54:32
  Speaker 10: the Constitution at the time it was written, or at
• 54:35
  Speaker 10: the time the Bill of Rights was drafted or it
• 54:39
  Speaker 10: was amended, and they are different in how they operate.
• 54:42
  Speaker 10: And I'm trying to explain how Alito is different than
• 54:45
  Speaker 10: some of his colleagues. He's less philosophical than a Justice
• 54:49
  Speaker 10: Scalia or Justice Thomas. These are guys who just know
• 54:53
  Speaker 10: what the law should be. They don't really care if
• 54:55
  Speaker 10: anyone else is with them, because they know they're right.
• 54:58
  Speaker 10: Alito is different. He likes to think about how to
• 55:02
  Speaker 10: get the court to where it should be. He frequently
• 55:05
  Speaker 10: agreed with Scalia, he agrees with Thomas, but he thinks
• 55:09
  Speaker 10: more about how do we get to that place so
• 55:11
  Speaker 10: that the country can benefit from this better understanding.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Of the law.
• 55:15
  Speaker 10: And I traced some of that back to his upbringing.
• 55:18
  Speaker 10: He's the son of an Italian immigrant. He's the grandson
• 55:21
  Speaker 10: of four Italian immigrants, and he grew up in a
• 55:24
  Speaker 10: very middle class area of New Jersey. He saw what
• 55:29
  Speaker 10: happened as the left began taking over cities and how
• 55:32
  Speaker 10: it didn't hurt the elites.
• 55:34
  Speaker 9: It hurt the.
• 55:35
  Speaker 10: Middle class and the lower classes. And he cares about that,
• 55:39
  Speaker 10: and he wants America to have He sees in America
• 55:43
  Speaker 10: what it can be, and he's frustrated when people are
• 55:46
  Speaker 10: trying to destroy that or attack the founding. And so
• 55:49
  Speaker 10: he has a slightly different approach, and it's an interesting one,
• 55:52
  Speaker 10: and I think it resonates for us a lot right now,
• 55:55
  Speaker 10: as a lot of people are feeling this, what happened
• 55:57
  Speaker 10: to the country and what can we do about it?
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Well, what I got out of that is that he's
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: a boomer, as I am a boomer, and he's like
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: the Wonder Years Justice, as like the Chief Justice is.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: He's the only in terms of personality type. I think
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: the Chief Justice and Justice Alito are the closest in
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: terms of personality. I know the Chief I've known him
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: for a long time, but I do not know Justice
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Alito except for your book. And they they're very measured,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: they're very He's not a Midwesterner, but he acts like
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: a Midwesterner. He's very courteous. I think I know his
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: wife like times one hundred, because Nile's Ohio full of
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: Italian Americans of that mid century America, and they can
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: be opinionated. They do fly flags. They'll let you know
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: what they think. Let's talk about her for a little bit.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Tell us about missus Alito.
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: So one of the.
• 56:46
  Speaker 10: Reasons why people don't know much about Justice Alito, despite
• 56:50
  Speaker 10: his importance in being behind so many of these major decisions,
• 56:54
  Speaker 10: is he.
• 56:54
  Speaker 9: Is so quiet and so reserved. He avoids any attention.
• 56:59
  Speaker 10: If you go to a party and there are multiple
• 57:01
  Speaker 10: Supreme Court justices there, or very powerful people in DC,
• 57:04
  Speaker 10: he's the one who's just in the corner, quietly listening.
• 57:08
  Speaker 10: His wife, on the other hand, is this unbelievably outgoing
• 57:12
  Speaker 10: and gregarious woman. She absolutely is her own woman. She
• 57:15
  Speaker 10: has her own thoughts, she holds them strongly, and people
• 57:19
  Speaker 10: are surprised. I think to see that someone as reserved
• 57:22
  Speaker 10: as Justice Alito is with such a force of nature
• 57:26
  Speaker 10: as Martha Ann, his wife, I think.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: It comes through again and again in Alito, and I
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: think people should realize justices are human beings. They are
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: extensions of their family, their wives, their spouses if they
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: are married, extraordinarily important in their life, and you learn
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: a lot about them, small details I learned Molly I
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: did not know that Justice Alito took Justice Kennedy's chambers,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: And until I've been teaching con law for thirty five years,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: I did not know until this day that and when
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: someone retired justice, it's like the House of Representatives, you
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: get two chambers based on seniority. So he moved in
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: the front of the building. Why would anyone want to
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: get closer to the protesters.
• 58:08
  Speaker 10: Well, at the time that he was moving there, I
• 58:10
  Speaker 10: don't think he realized how common some of these protests
• 58:13
  Speaker 10: would be. And it was in fact, right when he
• 58:15
  Speaker 10: moved there that it really got going with the Kavanaugh
• 58:19
  Speaker 10: the Kavanaugh having just been confirmed, as he's moving in
• 58:23
  Speaker 10: and people are scaling the walls, behaving in a way
• 58:26
  Speaker 10: that we don't normally associate with the Supreme Court. We
• 58:29
  Speaker 10: have had a lot of history of political protests in
• 58:31
  Speaker 10: this country, but usually it's against the political institutions like
• 58:35
  Speaker 10: Congress or at the White House, and the Supreme Court
• 58:38
  Speaker 10: is supposed to be not beholden to political pressure.
• 58:42
  Speaker 9: It is not supposed to operate as a political body.
• 58:45
  Speaker 10: And so when we've seen in recent years, you know,
• 58:47
  Speaker 10: Chuck Schumer going on the steps of the Supreme Court
• 58:49
  Speaker 10: to call for retribution against Justice Kavanaugh and Justice Gorsic,
• 58:53
  Speaker 10: and then within a few years they're actually facing death threats,
• 58:56
  Speaker 10: some of them quite serious. This is not what we
• 58:59
  Speaker 10: have seen with pressure on the Supreme Court previously.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: There is a funny bit as well. I know you're
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: incredibly well sourced, Molly, and you're careful about your sources.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: But when you described just as Alito's chambers, his style
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: is early Hodgepodge. Sounds like a comfortable office to me.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: That's how I would describe it. Is it just a
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: comfortable office?
• 59:23
  Speaker 10: Well, and that's how he would describe it as early Hodgepodge.
• 59:29
  Speaker 10: It has things that mean a lot to him, you know,
• 59:32
  Speaker 10: a painting of the New Jersey Shore. He is a
• 59:35
  Speaker 10: He is the one person I've met from New Jersey
• 59:37
  Speaker 10: who really believes it's the best state in the Union.
• 59:41
  Speaker 10: Does not tolerate any jokes about Jersey, no jokes about
• 59:45
  Speaker 10: the Jersey Shore.
• 59:45
  Speaker 9: He's a very proud New Jersey.
• 59:47
  Speaker 10: And then he also has family and grandkids and he
• 59:51
  Speaker 10: cares about them deeply. So there are things like that
• 59:54
  Speaker 10: in the office as well. Clerks frequently give gifts at
• 59:57
  Speaker 10: the end of their time. Clerk ser one year term
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 10: and they rotate. Every year you get a new set
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 10: of clerks, and so you'll see some of that. And
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 10: it is well known that Justice Alito is the Court's
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 10: current biggest baseball fan.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: And so he has a pause there a lot of them.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: He gave me an itch that I want scratched. At
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: some point he went to Phillies fanatics baseball camp, which
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: is unusual for Justice the United States Supreme Court. It's
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: a better than buying a sports car when you're a
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: midlife crisis. I love the Guardians. He's a different league,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: so the Phillies. We never play against each other very
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: very rarely, so I don't much care about the Philly
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: But being a baseball fan is a real deal, and
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: as is Justice Kevanaugh. He's the real thing. He doesn't
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: go to a game every now and then. He's glued in,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: he's wired in. I can't imagine what the chambers are
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: like the day after the Phillies loss in the playoffs.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Any of the clerks tell you, well, well.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 10: He takes these losses very personally. And one of the
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 10: when he was a kid and he would go to
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 10: a Phillies game if they lost. He was absolutely inconsolable,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 10: and his clerks will talk about how if he goes
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 10: into his meetings with the other justices and things don't
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 10: go the way he would like, they can tell as
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 10: he's walking down the hallway because he wears it on
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 10: his face. He's gotten in trouble for how much he
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 10: shares his own feelings through his facial expressions, because he
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 10: has a hard time fighting it. But he also thinks
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 10: that being a Phillies fan is key to his personality,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 10: because he says, you know where he grew up. You
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 10: could either be a Yankees fan or a Phillies fan.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 10: If you're a Yankees fan, you're winning all the time.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 10: You don't ever have to really suffer major losses or defeats.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 10: When you're a Phillies fan, you had to deal with
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 10: a lot of loss and defeat. Learning how to handle
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 10: heartbreak is a really important skill for someone who needs
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 10: to be forbearing and for who needs to fight a
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 10: long battle. And so he thinks that psychologically it's more
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 10: helpful to be a fan of a team that has
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 10: a losing record than one that always wins.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: It's an excellent argument for nominating the next justice from
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: Northeastern Ohio, who's a Browns fan and a Guardians fan
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: because they've never won anything, and therefore they would be very,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: very solid, like Justice Alito. Do you think we got
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: a minute to to break Molly and she'll be back
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: next to our win tag a little more substance on
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: originalism divisions within among the six conservative originalists on the court.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: But do you think Molly that President Trump will be
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: looking for someone like Justice Alito, who cannot be easily moved,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: who is his own justice and understands themselves in their theory,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: and he doesn't much care what he wants to persuade,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: but he's not going to be shoved around.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 9: There's something about Justice Alito's consistency.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 10: You saw it when he was on the Third Circuit
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 10: as a federal judge for fifteen years and then on
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 10: the Supreme Court as well, like Thomas.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 9: You know, people say, oh, they're predictable. No, they're just consistent.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 10: And I do you think that consistency is something the
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 10: conservative legal movement and Trump will be looking for. And
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 10: it is a little bit at odds with another thing
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 10: they're always looking for, which is youth. Sometimes with youth,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 10: you don't know if someone's going to be consistent. You
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 10: don't know enough about how they handle difficult cases, but
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 10: the Republicans seem to get better over time with this.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: Morn and Laura Evening, Race America. Welcome to hour three
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: of the program. Has promised an hour two when I
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: had Molly Hemingway on. She's back with the second part
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: of our interview about her brand new bestseller, Alito, The
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Justice Who re shaped the Supreme Court and restored the Constitution.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: Now I've read dozens and dozens of books about the
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court. They fall into the category of great read
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: for laymen, good reads for lawyers, great reads for law professors,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: terrible reads for everyone. This is a great read for everyone,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: law professor, lawyer, non lawyer, anybody who cares about the court,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: because Molly writes for public and you've done a great
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: job of going to law school without going to law school. Mally,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: let's talk about the first substantive issue that comes up
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: in the book, which is New York City Rifle and
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: Pistol Association versus the City of New York. It made
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: Alito Matt he wanted to decide the case because they've
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: been threatened by some senators. Explain that because I think
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: it tells you a lot about Alido.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 10: So, New York City had this law that made it
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 10: almost impossible for legal gun owners to travel with their weapons.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 10: If they needed to go to competition or if they
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 10: wanted to go to a gun range outside the city,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 10: they basically couldn't do it legally.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 9: And so it had been challenged.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 10: New York City had defended it to the hilt at
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 10: every step of the process. Once the Supreme Court agrees
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 10: to hear the case, though it gets appealed to the
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 10: Supreme Court, all of a sudden, they realized, Oh, if
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 10: this court here's this case, it's obviously going to strike
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 10: this down as unconstitutional.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 9: And not only will New York City lose, but so.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 10: Will every other left wing area that has a similar
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 10: unbanned And so the New York Times and other liberal
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 10: activists say, you need to pull the case. You need
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 10: to you know, you just need to like make it
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 10: moot so that they won't rule on it and have
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 10: a huge setback for people who want to go against
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 10: gun rights. Well, usually the courts don't like it when
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 10: someone tries to do that because they see it as
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 10: playing games. You had, in addition to this a bunch
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 10: of Democrat senators saying, if you don't declare this moot,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 10: because they're going to change the law. If you don't
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 10: declare it moot, we're going to pack the court. And
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 10: I loved how the Wall Street Journal put it, because
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 10: you usually say when you write a brief to the
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 10: Supreme Court, it's a friend of the Court brief, and
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 10: they dubbed it an enemy of the Court brief. They
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 10: were threatening them to do what they wanted or face
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 10: political ramifications. And you know it worked, though a bunch
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 10: of the justices did decide that it was moot and
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 10: they weren't going to decide this case for a lead out.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 10: That's not how the court should behave It should not
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 10: respond to political pressure or media pressure, because that's not
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 10: what a court does. You should just stick to the
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 10: law and doing what is right there. So he writes
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 10: a dissent where he makes that feeling known. He also
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 10: gave a speech to the Federalist Society where he explained
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 10: in greater detail how responding to pressure like that is
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 10: actually bad for the court.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: I want to add at this point, if you read
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: a Leito, you'll learn why he's such a tough customer,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: and I don't mean loud and SCHOOLI alike and brash.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: He's actually the most withdrawn, maybe even introverted justice. But
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: he's a former AUSA assistant the United States Attorney. That
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: means he prosecuted bad guys and sometimes the toughest of
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: the tough. He was a justice for many many years.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Then he was the acting United States Attorney, which means
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: you've got to select which cases to go after. Then
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: he goes on to the third Circuit, which is the
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: tough court for organized crime. Second circuit gets all the glory,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: but the third cicket gets all the mobsters. Yeah, Chairtop
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: is his deputy, a tough customer as well. In other words,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: he's really very certain of who he is. And he
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: served fifty years in the United States. What a patriot, Molly,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: fifty years. And I always tell people these justices could
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: be out making twenty million dollars a year if they
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: wanted to, if they took senior status at age seventy
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: and you didn't want to do it, just keep serving.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 9: And I think he's strongly influenced by the life of
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 9: his father.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 10: His father also could have been doing something making a
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 10: lot more money, but was a public servant for his
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 10: entire career. You're absolutely right that the justices can make
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 10: so much more money than they make currently, and Alito
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 10: in particular because he could handle really complex litigation. But
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 10: that experience also is why he tends to think more
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 10: about the ramifications of a decision, because he was a
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 10: federal judge for so long, and not a DC Circuit
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 10: judge but a third a third circuit judge, so he understood, well,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 10: we're the people who have to deal with what the
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 10: Supreme Court says, and we have to figure out how
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 10: to implement it. Or as a prosecutor, he had to
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 10: think through the rules set by the Supreme Court. Thinks
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 10: about that in his decisions, which is also why I
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 10: think he tends to be less theoretical or philosophical in
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 10: his approach to the law and more focused on the
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 10: facts of the case before him.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: I've had one United States Senator who may nameless, say
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: just send me eight more Alitos and I'll love the court.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: And I am sort of in the same position. But
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: that leads me to my two disagreements with you. They're
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: not big ones, but I want to just put them
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: out there. I think the Chief Justice suffers from a
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: moderate fallout disease, which is he did not rule the
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: way that conserves like you and me may have wanted.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: On Obamacare, I actually thought he ruled the right way
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: because of the avoidance doctrine, but you don't. I understand
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: that a lot of conservatives didn't like it and Harriet Myers,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: which is odd because if Harriet Myers had been confirmed,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: Justice Alito wouldn't have been and that would have been
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: made for a different court. But on the ladder, we'll
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: come back to the Chief in a second. On the ladder,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: do you worry that the Court is just becoming appeals
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: court graduate school? There are no more lawyers, there are
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: no more elects officials, there are no more normal people.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: They're all judges on the court. That's not that's called
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: the professionalization of the court. Harriet Meyers had been the
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: managing partner of a big law firm. That's a different
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: set of skills, but it's one not unuseful to the court.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 4: Well.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 10: I've spoken with quite a few people involved in the
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 10: Harriet Meyers nomination or people who were close to her,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 10: and she herself had always been wanting Alito for that
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 10: even the initial opening that.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 9: Went to John Roberts.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 10: And I think she gets kind of a bad rap
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 10: because she was put in an almost impossible situation. There
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 10: was great concern among conservatives that there were such important
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 10: things that needed to be done that you couldn't trust.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 10: You know, people were saying, trust us, she's really good,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 10: but they didn't know enough about her. She hadn't been
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 10: part of the conservative legal community, but she showed good instinct,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 10: not just in her support for Alito, but also her
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 10: the people closest to her really do did vouch for her.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 10: There's no question I think that Alito is who you know,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 10: the movement would want to over a Harriet Myers. But
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 10: you're absolutely right that there is way too much like
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 10: it's almost like they're so skilled.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 9: It's almost too much skill.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 10: And there used to be much more variety on the court,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 10: more politicians, less it was less likely that they would
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 10: have been a law professor or a federal judge, but
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 10: they might have come from other backgrounds as well.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 9: I don't know.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 10: We seem to be trying to get the court to
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 10: fix all of our problems, and for that you kind
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 10: of do want people at a very high level of operation.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 10: But it's not healthy for the country that you need
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 10: a court with that high level of expertise.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: You should not be that complicated. Let me talk to
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: you about the other My only criticism of the book,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: My only one is that leader McConnell, who saved the
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: United States Constitution by declaring no hearings, no votes in
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: the aftermath of Justice Scalia's untimely death. He gets like
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: three lines in your book, Molly, he's responsible for the
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: original Supreme Court. You got three long He's like the crow.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 5: That is not true.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 9: I quote him so much, it's ridiculous. I think he
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 9: is so you know, he always said the right things.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 10: When, for instance, Chuck Schumer goes to the steps of
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 10: the Supreme Court and threatens Capitol and gorsage, it was
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 10: Mitch McConnell who led the charge against that type of
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 10: behavior and did so in a very principled fashion. I've
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 10: actually had jokes from team McConnell about how much I
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 10: quote him, given that I also give him such a
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 10: hard time in my life, but that he has at
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 10: least at least on the judiciary. That is a man
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 10: who Americans owe a great deal toward.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 9: And he did also.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 10: Frustrate the left, and I try to be understanding of
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 10: that as well. When he held that seat open until
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 10: the twenty sixteen election but then rushed through the Amy
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 10: Cony Barrett nomination, he had his reason, you know, he
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 10: always said, we're doing this because it's different brand. Different
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 10: parties control the Presidency and Congress in twenty sixteen, whereas
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 10: it was the same party in twenty twenty. But it
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 10: felt very unfair to many people on the left, and
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 10: I think it's okay to acknowledge that that felt unfair.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: I warn everyone, if Chuck Schumer gets to send it back,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: we won't see one judge confirmed, not one, not at
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: any level, not one. Which by the way, there was
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: a story that leaked last week. Justice Alito is not retiring.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: Do you put any credit into rumors at all?
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 10: I shared that understanding that he's not retiring, and that,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 10: you know, so I know people want him to retire.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 10: They want Thomas to retire because they want to get
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 10: someone younger. Unfortunately, Thomas and Alito were probably the two
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 10: strongest people on the court right now, so replacing them
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 10: would maybe come at a loss. But they both indicated
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 10: that they are not retiring.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: This term. If one of them did, who would Donald
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Trump turned to Leonard Leo's on the outs. Bill Barr
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: is not on the end. Where do you find an
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: Alito if you haven't got a Leonard to tell you
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: that he's out there?
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 10: Well, as Carrie said and I wrote in our book
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 10: on Justice Kavanaugh, there is a broad legal community. And
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 10: just because some of the relationships are fraid doesn't mean
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 10: that there aren't still a ton of really solid attorneys,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 10: well connected in the conservative legal movement who are working
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 10: for Trump right now.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 9: I'm sure he's relying on those quite a bit.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 10: And I also wanted to just say there is another
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 10: justice in his seventies who has been on the court
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 10: the second longest, and that's the Chief, and he, you know,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 10: he also should be in consideration for retirement.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: Chief is my age. He barely turned seventy, Molly, that's
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: different from seventy six and seventy eight. But we will
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: just agree to disagree. I don't want the Chief that
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: ever retire. Is the only Midwestern around the court. That's
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: why he's the perfect Chief Justice. He's equable and always happy.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: Don't go ahead, and Molly, how anyway, I'll be right
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: back America. Go get during the break her book, Alito.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: It's on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, in every airport in America.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: Pick it up. You'll love it. One more segment with
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: my friend Malla Hemingway. Just slightly to my right on
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: the conservative talking head spectrum? Is that fair? Molly just
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: slightly to my right? I think that's about right. Maybe
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: a little bit more to my right than I am.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: But she's a better commentator than me. She's funnier than
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: I am. Molly. I want to talk some substance. So
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: every three or four years I will take a teach
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: a seminar on the religion clauses free exercise in the
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: establishment clause. Here, Justice Alito has done Yeoman's work with
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: the Bladensburg cross case and he sort of set up
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: the spike. And I want you to explain to people
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: how Alito works because he's not in a hurry, you know,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: he has time to develop it. And then the free
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: exercise case where Justice Barrett has said, hey, it's time
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: to overturn I employment division versus Smith. Let's get going here,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: but she didn't do it. They're both incrementalists. I think
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of like explain what that what
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: they're doing on the religion clauses, right.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 10: So, Justice Alito has always cared about religious liberty a
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 10: great deal, even when he was on the Third Circuit.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 10: That's when the Supreme Court handed down Employment Division v. Smith,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 10: which limited to some extent the religious rights of minorities.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 9: That concerned him.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 10: Right away he starts figuring out ways to protect religious
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 10: minorities rights, you know, Muslims, Jews, Christians, even with this
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 10: Employment Division v.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 9: Smith ruling. I actually think overturning.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 10: That might be one of his long term goals and
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 10: might be something he would like to do before he retires.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 10: He came pretty close to that a couple of years
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 10: ago in this case out of Philadelphia, where the government
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 10: was discriminating against a Catholic foster care agency because they
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 10: did not subscribe to the state's notion that marriage can
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 10: include same sex parties or other couplings. And the Court
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 10: was unanimous in holding that Philadelphia had violated the law.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 10: But the question was, like, how what do they think
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 10: should happen next? For Justice Alito, he was encouraged by
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 10: one of his colleagues to actually make a run at
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 10: overturning Employment Division b.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: Smith.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 10: It's why, even though it was a unanimous court on
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 10: that case, the concurrence by Alito was longer than the
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 10: majority opinion, and it was exhaustive and all with the
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 10: history of religious liberty. But he couldn't get Kavanaugh and
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 10: Barrett to sign on, even though they said they are
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 10: open to it, but they need a little bit more time.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 10: I think that's part of the frustration you see between
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 10: Thomas and Alito on the one hand, and the younger justices.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 10: The older justices know that you're not necessarily always going
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 10: to be in a majority on the court, and then
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 10: a lot of bad things happen that need correction, and
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 10: so they would like their younger colleagues to understand how
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 10: fleeting that can be. But the level of disagreement is
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 10: not actually that much, and I think people should understand
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 10: that this is a very solid court and that each
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 10: of these justices is doing their best to come to
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 10: their right understanding of the law. Now, with the other
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 10: religious liberty cases, there had been another situation where the
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 10: used to apply these very complicated tests which judges could
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 10: apply Leman tests.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: It was a zombie test. That's right. Scolia said it
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: would rise from its grave and walk around every now
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: and then terrible.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 10: Test, and Gorsic and Thomas were like, we've got to
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 10: get rid of this test. Alito is more conscious that
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 10: just because they want to get rid of the test
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 10: doesn't mean they have a majority to do so, and
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 10: so he sort of will think, what can we do
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 10: in this particular case before us to explain why that
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 10: test needs to go even though we don't know, flat
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 10: out overrule the test and then keep it moving every
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 10: few decisions until such point as what was gorst jbel
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 10: to do overrule the Lemon test eventually, So he is
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 10: also much more of an incrementalist and more thinking about
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 10: how to keep a majority together to accomplish the goal
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 10: you want over the long term.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: I am glad that you covered all the ridiculous ethics
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: allegations for both he and Justice Thomas and others, because
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: they're ridiculous. I'm glad you went into Sneyder b Phillips.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: I would have joined your descent. I drove by those
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: crazy Westboro Baptist people on the way to a funeral
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: of a family that I befriended and got to know
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: who lost their son in Iraq, and the rage that
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: overcomes you when you see those people. I'm with Justice
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: Alito and the descent on that. Can we talk a
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: little bit though, about what you mean by saying Aliito
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: and Gorsich are different kind of originalists. Justice Gorsich sales
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: under a textualist slag which is a little bit different
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: than the one under which Justice Alito flies Fly sales frequently.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 10: Justice Gorsicch and Justice Alito are on the same side
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 10: of cases. A very well known time when that didn't
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 10: happen was in Justice Gorsich's Bostock opinion.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 9: This is where he said that the Civil Rights Act applies.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 10: To gender issues and sexual orientation, even though the Civil
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 10: Rights Act clearly did not apply to those things at.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: Sixty four nineteen sixty four. Great yes.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 9: And so Alito has this tendency.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 10: He'll either just dismiss something very quickly, you know, they'll
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 10: say cut and artery and it's done. He's has a
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 10: very short descent or a very short opinion, or he's exhaustive.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 10: He'll go through every single problem with the way that
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 10: the that the opposing side handled something. I think that's
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 10: been his approach to Bostock. In addition to what he
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 10: wrote at the time. He's also given speeches about how
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 10: how Gorsich had really not upheld the spirit or law
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 10: of Scalia's approach to textualism, which he had done in
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 10: the Bostock ruling. And so they've definitely had a spat
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 10: about that, but they remain very good friends.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: Now, moll, I think you agree with me on this.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: The Chief Justice has been a champion of a colorblind society.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: He is, in fact the edge of the acts when
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: it comes to chopping down, and he infliction of punishment
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: or award of benefits based on race, ideology, background, ethnicity.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: Do you agree one hundred percent?
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 10: Well, people always say he's such a squish, and someone
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 10: said to me, well, he's a squish on things a
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 10: lot of people care about.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 9: It's also not a squish.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 10: Nobody has done better work on fighting racism in federal
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 10: and state programs than the Chief It's just not even.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: Also said up in Dabbs with his concurrence in Citizens United,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: where he laid out the exact criteria one would have
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: to use in order to overturn criteria that Justice Alito
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: used in Dabbs. So I was going to come to
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: this where you write so many Conservatives are disappointed in Roberts,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: I really don't think so. I think they're disappointed in
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: the Obamacare thing. But Molly, if it's the doctrine of
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: deference to the legislative branch, if he had overturned it's
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: a counterfactual, so he won't. Now if the Chief had
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: overturned Obamacare, do you think Obama would have lost control
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: of Congress for the next six years and therefore no
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: reconciliation nightmares via the Obama ears, Because that's what would
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: happen in my view, if the Chief had thrown out Obamacare,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: we would have gotten everything on reconciliation for six more years.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 10: I can't say, but I do think people also need
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 10: to know that Chief Justice John Roberts was someone who
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 10: people just thought he was going to be a more
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 10: traditional conservative. He'd actually always said that he wanted to
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 10: be deferential to Congress. He said that in his confirmation hearings.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 10: I think the frustration with Obamacare really was because he
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 10: did switch.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 9: Sides on that.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 10: He was originally with Kennedy, Scalia, Alito, and Thomas on
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 10: holding it unconstitutional, and then as he was writing that
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 10: majority opinion, he switched. That is part of the reason
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 10: why I think there was such frustration from him, and
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 10: also that it was perceived that he was responding to
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 10: political pressure, which some of the justices feel meant that
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 10: the Court was more open into political pressure once the
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 10: left saw that you could gain an advantage through media
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 10: or political pressure.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: I understand the argument, but I think I think people
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: need to understand as well that the counterfactual what would
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: have happened had the Court tossed out a super majority.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: First African American president, notable legislative achievement. Oh well, Mollie,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: I just want it. Hats off to you. I always
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: find it amazing when a non lawyer can do a
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: better job than the law professors have tackled the same
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: subject repeatedly, and you have with Alito. Congratulations on Alito.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you're up to next, but I
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: think any justice ought to throw their chambers open to you.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: By the way, I used your book today in a
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: column for Fox News seventy eight thousand words by Justin
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: Brown Jackson from the bench last year. Wow, thank you,
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: Mollie Hamingway, say tuned America, I'm here here. Thank you
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: for listening to highly concentrated Hugh, and don't forget one
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  Speaker 5: That's right, that was a great time. But we've had
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 5: thousands of people come out to events. We have a
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 5: whole litany of events coming up Greensboro, North Carolina as well.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 5: So it's just been a lot of fun to see
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 5: people really reflecting on what makes America accept Chanel and
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 5: having a very important conversation about how do we move
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 5: freedom and opportunity forward the next two hundred and fifty years.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: Daniel, I want to go over some of the bullet
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: points you sent me about why AFP Americans for Prosperity
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: got involved. Than this pride in America is at near
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: historic lows. That's always very troubling for me to see
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: trust in government has been below thirty percent for nearly
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: two decades. A lot of reasons for that we could
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: discuss that forever. Here's the one that bothers me the
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: most among young American trust in the country drops to
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: less than twenty percent. What do we do with stats
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: like that, Daniel? How do we react to that?
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 5: Well, the first thing is your right to be alarmed,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 5: because if people are losing faith in this country, in
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 5: the American dream, they're going to stop showing up. They're
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 5: going to stop fighting for what makes us special, and
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 5: that is unacceptable to us at Americans for prosperity. And really,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 5: we see this as it coincides with the growth of
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 5: government in every part of our life. The last twenty
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 5: twenty five years, the same inverse trajectory of pride in
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 5: America coincides with growth in federal spending and regulations. And
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 5: what we are seeing is that Americans are no longer
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 5: feeling that they have agency and control.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: Over their lives.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 5: Instead, they feel like they can't control their outcomes, and
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 5: that means the American dream is becoming unattainable. How do
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 5: we respond to that, Well, we have to go to
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 5: those founding principles of our country. Freedom, opportunity, individual liberty.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 5: That's what empowered this nation to be the greatest on earth.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 5: That's what got us the unparalleled prosperity, and if our
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 5: policymakers and most importantly, our citizens recommit themselves to those
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 5: founding principles, will set ourselves back on a better trajectory.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Daniel Bissally, I am a boomer. I am old
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: enough to remember the bi Sententennial and the energy that
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: was unleashed by that people didn't actually kind of see
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: it coming. I'm glad to be around to see AFP's
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: campaign A two point fifty tool kit dot com slash
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: you if you want to go and find out, because
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: I think there'll be a lot of energy unleashed again
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: when people realize how wonderful that now a lot of
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: people are looking backwards. I interviewed Justice Gorshit yesterday about
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: a book you've got coming out in May, but Americans
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: Reparity and Ago fifty jill kit dot com, you're looking forward.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: What are some of the examples of the one small
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: Step campaign you would suggest people consider taking.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a great part about this is that instead
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 5: of just reflecting on her history, let's think about what
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 5: we can do to move the country forward. And so
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 5: that looks a little bit different for everyone. The reason
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 5: it's called one small step is because it just starts
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 5: with taking and action and at Americans for Prosperity were
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 5: made up as the largest grassroots advocacy organization in the country.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 5: Were made up of tens of thousands of people who
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 5: wake up every day and make a meaningful difference in
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 5: their community. It can look like door knocking, It can
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 5: look like phone banking. It can look like going to
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 5: a two fifty toolkit dot com, downloading resources and sharing
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 5: it with your friends and neighbors that educate them about
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 5: the founding principles and really have an important conversation about
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 5: what policies actually will improve everyday life in America, focusing
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 5: on issues like affordability, which are top of mind, energy budget.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 5: There's so much that people can get engaged with. It
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 5: depends on what they're passionate about it, and it depends
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 5: on what their own skills and apstitudes are.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Daniel, I tell people long going far away.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: When I moved from DC back to California to start
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: and raise our family, I called up the city to
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: which I moved. I said, hey, do you have any
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: committee or board that has a vacancy you need someone on?
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: And sure enough they did. They had a vacancy on
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: the Christmas Tree Committee. What they do about the Christmas Tree.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: So I put my hand. It's that easy. There are
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: boards and vacancies all over America. Step up and step involved,
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: exactly well, stand one small step by everyone, head to
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: a two fifty toolkit dot com slash you. A two
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: fifty toolkit dot com slash you. Daniel Bassali, thank you
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: for joining me. Keep pressing on with a two fifty
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: toolkit dot com slash you and coming back America, California,