Latest / Gil I Am / Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson debate Iran regime change

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Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson debate Iran regime change · Gil I Am

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Senator, thank you very much for spending the time to
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: have this conversation.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: It's good to be with you.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: So you've come out for regime change in Iran as
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: distinct just from taking out the nuclear sites. What does
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: regime change look like in Iran? Somebody else in charge?
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: How do you get there?
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Look, that ultimately has to be a popular uprising from
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: the people. And it's not a complicated question. Is America
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: better off with a country that has a leader who
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: hates us and want to kills us, wants to kill us,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: or to have a country with a leader who likes
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: us and wants to be friends with us, And definitely
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: the latter is better, of course. Yeah, And so that's
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: not a complicated statement. Look, I believe you look across
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: the world when you have countries that have dictators that
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: are viciously anti America. Venezuela Maduro hates us. Would we
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: be better off with Maduro out of power? Absolutely? I
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: want our enemies out of power, and I want a
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: friends in power.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: I could not agree more the questions, how do you
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: get there? Of course, we've been trying to kill Maduro
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: for quite some time. We have troops there.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know that we've been trying to kill him, right,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: we have, and I think you know that, and I
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: don't know that, Okay, Well as a statement, in fact,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: we have, so we do have massive sanctions, we try
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: to pressure HM out of all. Yeah, I'm not aware
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  Speaker 2: of it.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying there's a lot of pressure coming from
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: various parts of the US government on that government.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: And it's still there.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, seem the country Verian sisters, Cuba, you know, nineteen
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: fifty nine we've been working on that hasn't worked.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: So's it's we both agree it's hard to do. It
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: absolutely is hard. And look, I think you're reasonable to
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: ask how do we produce that? And I think there's
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: a distinction between what your objective is and the means
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: to get it. There are all sorts of things. I
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: would say we would be better off, We'd be better
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: off in China without she there? Should we invade China
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: and topple she? Of course, not better off of the
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: national debt.
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  Speaker 1: You know, there are lots of things, but it's good
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: to say, all right, what are objectives? Right?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: So with the Iatolin Iran saying you're for regime change,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I don't view as complicated. I mean, the guy literally
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: leads mobs channing death to America. So that's not good.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Definitely not good.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: But the reason I think it's important to get a
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: little more detailed about how that might happen is because
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: there's military action in progress which we're supporting, and the
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: President has said clearly, including last night, that he is
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: focused on eliminating the capacity of the reigning government to
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: produce nuclear weapons. You are saying we need to use
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: military force to affect regime change.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I have not said that, Oh I must have no. No,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I have not said that once. I don't think we
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: need to use military force to do regime change. I
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: said I support it. I would like to see it happen.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: You asked me, how should it happen? A popular uprising?
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: So what I've advocated for? All right, let's step back
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: a second.
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  Speaker 1: Man.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: You and I we've known each other a long time.
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  Speaker 2: I would say we agree on about eighty percent of
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: the things on Earth, for sure. And there are a
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: lot of things, and we can get into the nitty
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: gritty foreign policy as much as you want. There are
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: a lot of things on which you and I I agree,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: not just a little bit, but violently.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I totally agree. I was rooting for in your last
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: campaign for sure.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you. Look, you have been heroic on the border.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: You've been one of the clearest and best voices in
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: the whole country on securing the border and on the
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: absolute crisis we're facing. And in Texas, I see it
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: and live it every day in COVID. In fact, you
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: may recall, in the middle of the COVID lockdown, I
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: was out walking my dog when the whole world was
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: shut down and we were living in lunatic times, and
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: I called you and said, Tucker, your nightly monologues are
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: the single best thing on television. Like I watched them
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: like an injection of crack. Okay, mixing my metaphor because
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: you don't inject crack, but but you get what I'm trying. No,
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  Speaker 2: I mean it was you were standing up and speaking like,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: what the hell are we doing in a way that
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: we desperately, desperately needed. And So, whether it's securing the border,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: whether it's the insanity of COVID lockdowns and the vaccine mandates,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: whether it is the Second Amendment or the First Amendment,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: you and I agree on a ton of stuff. The
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: twenty percent. Where we disagree, I do think is meaningful,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: and it's mostly in the foreign policy space. And what
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: I would say, if you'll allow me to get a
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: little theoretical, and then I'm happy to get you a
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  Speaker 2: specific yes. For a long time, people have perceived two
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: different polls of Republican foreign policy. There've been interventionists and
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: those have been people like John McCain and Lindsey Graham,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: George W. Bush, and they've been isolationists, and then the
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: most prominent of those have been Ron Paul and Rand Paul,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: and there are others, and people perceive those are the
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: two choices. You've got to be one or the other.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I've always thought both were wrong. I don't agree with
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: either one the way I view my own foreign power.
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  Speaker 2: I'm with you, by the way, for whatever it's worth,
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I agree with you. Okay, good.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know who's set up that binary, But there
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: are lots of choices.
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  Speaker 2: Actually, I mean, people sort of naturally fall into I
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: think they want to classify people and they're like, Okay,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: you're one of the other, and you've got to be
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  Speaker 2: all or nothing. And the interventionist, it seems, have never
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: seen a country they didn't want to invade, and that
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense to me. And the isolationist, I think,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: don't take the threats to America seriously, and I think
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: that's naive and it doesn't work. And so my view,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I consider myself a third point on the triangle. And
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: what I describe that as is that I am a
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: non interventionist hawk, which sounds a little weird. But what
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: do I mean by that? I mean the central touch
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: point for US foreign policy and for any question of
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: military intervention should be the vital national security interest of
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: the United States. How does this make America safer? How
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: does this protect Americans? If it does, we should be strong.
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  Speaker 2: And actually, another way of conceiving what I'm saying, I'm
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: speaking theoretically, but Reagan referred to it as piece through strength,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: And actually I think Donald Trump's foreign policy is very
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: much what I'm describing a non interventionist talk where he
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: understands that and I think this is historically true. The
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: best way to avoid war is being strong. That weakness
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: and isolationism I think encourages war. So going back to
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: regime change where you started in Iran.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Or just to me, I don't think I disagree with
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: anything you've said, so we may not be that for
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: apart really because you said that the single criterion for
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: making decisions about America's foreign policy is America's national interest.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's it. Yeah, which is also America first. That's
• 6:45
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• 6:47
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• 6:48
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• 7:01
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• 7:05
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• 7:50
  Speaker 1: The questions are we watching that now? So I think
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: we are. And from what you've said publicly, I think
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: on Iran in particular, you and I disagree. All right,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: let me contrast it when Obama was president. When Obama
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: was president, you remember, he talked about wanting to have
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: military action against Syria, and at the time, I tried
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: to keep an open mind to it. I said, Okay,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: let me listen to the commander in chief described to
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: me how this is in America's interest and what your
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: plan is. And Bashar Asad was a bad guy. He
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  Speaker 1: was killing his own citizens, and he had chemical weapons
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  Speaker 1: that were very dangerous. I could conceive of a commander
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  Speaker 1: in chief laying out a plan for Okay, we're going
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: to go in and say grab the chemical weapons and
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  Speaker 1: lead like.
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  Speaker 2: I could see that if there was a real threat
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: to America and there was a plan to prevent that,
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  Speaker 2: I could see supporting that. So I wanted to hear
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: what he had to say, and I listened both in
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: classified briefings and public questioning, and number one, they're public defensive.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: It was incoherent. So John Kerrey said, we're going to
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: engage in an unbelievably small strike. I think that's a quote.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, and to do what. At the time,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: there were nine major rebel Islamic groups in Syria. I'm like, okay,
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  Speaker 2: I agree, but Sharsad's a bad guy. You topple him
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: and one of the nine other groups takes over. Seven
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: of them were affiliated with radical Islamic terrorism. You had
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: al Qaeda and al Nusra. Like, wait, how is it
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: better to have lunatics who hate us in charge? Asad's
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: a bad guy, but I don't want worse guys in charge.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Obama administration couldn't give an answer to that. And ultimately,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: when you press them, John Kerry in particular, I pressed,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: and he would say, well, we need to defend international norms.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: What the hell is an international norm? I don't know
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: what it is, but I'm not interested in putting US
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: servicemen and women in harm's way to defend one. So
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: I opposed the Syria TECH and opposed it vocally, and
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: it was interesting Randon. I agreed. Rand's a friend of mine,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: but we agreed with that position for different reasons. What
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: I was asking is, is I think the question we
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: should ask, how does this make America safer? The Obama
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: administration couldn't give me an answer, so I posed it.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: I think Iran is very different. I mean me, ask
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: what you think of how Shiria wound up? Because but
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Charles said, now lives in Moscow. Yeah, he was taken.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Out by our allies and he's been replaced by a
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: radical Islamist who was affiliate with ISIS. So is that
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: a win or no?
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Unclear? It looks Seria as a mess. So I've consistently opposed.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: So we had a secular leader in a religious and
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: ethnically diverse country. Now we have a religious extrememist, Islamic
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: religious extremist who's overseen the purge of Christians and Allowhites.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Is that better? That doesn't seem well.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Look one of the things you said, as you said
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: he was taken out by our allies. I don't think
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: that's right. Israel didn't take a sod out what happened.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: And I'll tell you what about Turkey. Turkey didn't take
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: him out, so it was interesting. I had a long
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: kind of Assaga kicked out.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when Netyahu was in DC a couple of months ago,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: he and I sat down for a couple of hours.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: He's a good friend to Bune and we talked actually
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: about Syria. It was he made an interesting point that
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I've not heard anywhere else in that he said he
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: believes what toppled a SOD was when Israel took out Nosralla.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Nosralla was the head of Hesbeal and they took him out,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: and he made an interesting point. He said, it's fascinating
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: how a charismatic leader. And Bebe said, look, Nazralla was
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: a very effective terrorist leader, and when they took him out,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: that power base was supporting a SOD and that ultimately,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: in Bebe's analysis, removed the support from ASAD and toppled him.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: But they weren't trying to take out a SOD. My
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: view now, I don't know. So you don't think that
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: and I don't.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: It is very confusing, and I don't know that anyone
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: really knows all the details. But you don't think that
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Israel or Turkey or NATO ally Turkey played any role
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: in toppling Asad.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know that they did. Look
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: look my understanding of that. They clearly took got Nozraela
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: and Hesbela. They've decimated Hesbela, but HESBLO is waging war
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: on them. So so decimating Hesbela was very good for
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Israel and very good for America too. I mean Hesbla
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: hated US. I would put a SOD in the category
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: of an unintended consequence, and whether it's good or bad,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think time will tell. For the
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: United States. Yeah, for the United States, I think time
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: will tell the new leadership there. You're right to be concerned.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: I let me step back and let's talk regime change generally.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I mentioned Syria. I also opposed the Iraq War. I
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: think the Iraq War was a serious mistake. And we
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: have a pattern, and going back to this binary of
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: the interventionist and the isolationists. The interventionists advocate over and
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: over again, there's a bad guy, there's a dictator who's
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: doing bad things to his people, and they say, let's
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: go top of them. And you have dictators in the
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Middle East who are killing rad Islamic terrorists. We come
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: in and topple them, the radical Islamic terrorists take over
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: and they start killing Americans. And my view, how the
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: heck does that help us? Like Saddam Hussein was a
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: horrible human being. He murdered and tortured people. I unequivocally
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: bad guy. But it got much worse after we toppled him,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: and you ended up having ISIS rise up. I mean,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: that was the cause of ISIS, was toppling Saddam Hussein.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Same thing in Libya you had Kadafi, another horrible guy
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: that under Obama, we toppled him and you ended up
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: having radical Islamic warlords taking over. And so the question,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: and it's the question I asked in Syria. Okay, well
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: what's the plan and how is this good or bad
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: for the United States? And so I don't think with Iran.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: I view Iran is very different from Iraq. But up
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: to that point, you say we disagree, I don't hear
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: really anything. I'm not quite sure what happened in Syria,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: but I don't know, so right, But other than that,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I don't hear anything. I disagree with that all.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like we're in a complete agreement. I wonder, though,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: is there a successful regime change that the United States
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: supported that you're aware of in the last one hundred years.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Sure, defeating the Soviet Union and the Soviet Union collapsing,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: winning the Cold War, that was the most consequential step
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: for US national security interests of our lifetimes, Okay, And
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: so you would classify that as a regime change that
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: we affected. Absolutely. And look, you and I are in
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: my office. We're sitting next to a painting of Reagan
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: in front of the Brandenburg Gate, and up top are
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: the words tear down this wall in German in the
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: style of the graffiti. And I think those are the
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: most important words any leader has said in modern times.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: And if you look at how Reagan waged the Cold War,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: and Reagan is very much my model for how to
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: I actually think how Reagan took on the Soviet unions
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: exactly how we should take on China. Now, starting from
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: the point, look, Reagan was not an interventionist. In eight years,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: the biggest country Reagan ever invaded was Grenada. He was
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: very reluctant to use US military force.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: He didn't respond after the eighty three Barracks bombings.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: You're right, he made the judgment that the risk exceeded
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: the benefits. And that's a very rational decision to make,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: and it's reflected Trump has made those same decisions where
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: he is willing to use military force, but he very
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: much asks, Okay, is this good or bad for America?
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Does this in danger? Us servicemen and women are not
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: And one of the points about the Cold War, look,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: nobody in their right mind wanted a shooting war between
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: America and the Soviet Union, the two biggest nuclear powers
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: on Earth. Firing bullets at each other is really unhealthy
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: for human beings. Same thing is true with China. Nobody
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: with any sense says, hey, let's go to war with China.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: That's really dumb and a whole lot of people could die.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: But the Cold War showed we've got lots of tools
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: short of sending the Marines to fight against a regime.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: And one of the most important tools is the bully pulpit.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: And so when I say I support regime change, I
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: actually think just simply laying out what the Ayatola does.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: And so I spend a lot of time I speak
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: to Iranian dissident groups. I speak out against human rights abuses.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: I think shining a light on the depravity of leaders
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: is a really powerful tool that America has.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Should we limit our activity to that?
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: It depends again that these the.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: US government pays opposition groups, militarized opposition groups in Iran
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: to overthrow the government. We've done it in a lot
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: of different places.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: As you know.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's bad, but that's very different from
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: what you're describing. You're saying we're making a moral case,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: as we did for seven years with the Soviets. Our
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: system works, yours doesn't, and I think we made a
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: credible case for that, and we beat them over seventy
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: years economically, and that was a huge part of it, right.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I think everyone agreed that was the main part of it.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: We didn't beat them in Vietnam, in North Korea the
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: main part of it, but it was tied to a
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: military build up. So I think it was two things.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: It was won the clarity.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: So Reagan came in and he described the Soviet Union
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: as an evil empire, right, and all of the intelligency
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: in DC, all the Democrats, all the media, they're like,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: what a horrible thing to say. You can't say that
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Reagan went to the United Kingdom and he said, Marxism
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Leninism will end up on the ash heap of history.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: People were horrified. They asked him, all right, what's your
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: strategy in the Cold War? He said, very simple, we win,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: they lose. And that was all viewed as sort of
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: a philistine simplicity, and I think it was exactly right
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: and laying that out speaking. Do you know the backstory
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: behind the Berlin Wall speech?
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I do, Yes, you probably know Peter Robinson, who, of
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: course speech writer. Yes. So three times the State Department
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: deleted those words from that speech, and three times Reagan
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: wrote it back and the State Department argued, they said,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: its president, you can't say this. This is too bellicos,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: this is too provocative, and my favorite, they said, this
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: is too unrealistic. The Berlin Wall will stand till the
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: end of time. And Reagan said, look, this is the
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: whole point of the speech. And less than three years
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: after Reagan gave that speech, the Berlin Wall was torn
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: to the ground. And it wasn't knocked down by American
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Army tanks. We didn't shoot missiles at it. It was
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: shining truth and light that tore it down. It was
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: also rebuilding the American military. It was what was then
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: pejoratively called Star Wars, where the Soviet Union their economy
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: couldn't match our military build up and it bankrupted that.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: That's an example of peace through strength.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I wonder, I mean, is there anybody who was alive
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine who wouldn't trade that America for
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: the one we live in now? There's not one person,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I don't think, Oh sure, but I mean just the
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: basic metrics debt, suicide rate, life expectancy.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I wonder why after that victory America didn't thrive in
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: the way that we thought that it would. That I
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: thought that it would. My family was involved in that.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, we were very focused on into my house
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: like yeah one, and I wonder two things. Why didn't
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: the United States kind of declare victory and make some
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: sort of arrangement with Russia that allowed like mutual prosperity
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: rather than continuing a Cold War? And second, I wonder
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: why the United States didn't get a lot better, Like
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: why don't we have better infrastructure? Why don't we if
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: you were homeless, why do we have all these drugs?
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Like if we won Why does our country look like this?
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I walked across from Union Station this morning, as you do,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I'm sure every day and always people lying in the
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: street and sleeping outside. It's like, what is that? We're
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: sorry to say it, but this is not a very
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: safe country. Walk through Oakland or Philadelphia. Yeah, good luck.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: So most people, when they think about this, want to
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: carry a firearm, and a lot of us do. The
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: problem is there can be massive consequences for that. Ask
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Kyle Rittenhouse. Kyle ritten has got off in the end,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: but he was innocent from the first moment. It was
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: obvious on video, and he was facing life in prison anyway.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: That's what the anti gun movement will do. They'll throw
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: you in prison for defending yourself with the firearm. And
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: that's why a lot of Americans are turning to Berna.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: It's a proudly American company. Burna makes self defense launchers
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: that hundreds of law enforcement departments trust. They've sold over
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: six hundred thousand pistols, mostly to private citizens who refuse
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: to be empty handed. These pistols and I have one
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: fire rockhard kinetic rounds or tear gas rounds, and pepper
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: projectiles and they stop a threat from up to sixty
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: feet away. There are no background checks, there are no
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: waiting periods. BURNI can ship it directly to your door.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: You can't be arrested for defending yourself with a Burna pistol.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Visit Burnabyrna dot com or your local sportsman's warehouse to
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: get your stay Burna dot com.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Look, there's no doubt there are really dangerous forces in
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: our society. Some of it is politics and some of
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: it is culture. And one of the mistakes people make
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: in politics is thinking everything is politics. So the political answer,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: which I happen to believe, is we went much further
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: down the road of liberalism. You look at Bill Clinton,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: who inherited the peace dividend of the Cold War being
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: over and moved us more to the left, and then
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Obama accelerated it a lot. So there are lots of
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: I agree bad economic policies, but I also think they're
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: cultural things. You know the.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Laws I agree with all of family. I know what
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: you're going to say, and I agree one hundred percent.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: I bet there's not one word that I would disagree with.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: All I'm saying is I think it's important to step
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: back and ask but I actually think Russia has very
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: little do with it. Well, that's kind of the point
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: that I'm trying to make, which is like, we're all
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: sort of focused on beating our adversaries abroad, but what
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: is victory worth if our own country becomes what it
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: is now? And maybe we're spending a little too much
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: time focused abroad and not enough time focused on the
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: people sleeping outside Union Station.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: So look, I absolutely think we need to focus at
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: home emphatically, and we need to focus on prosperity. We
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: need to focus on reducing the debt, reducing spending, and
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: powering people low taxes, small businesses, American free enterprise. It's
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: the most powerful force for fighting poverty the world has
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: ever seen. I'm a thousand percent there. I also recognize
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: it is a dangerous world, and part of the responsibility
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: of leaders, part of President Trump's responsibility, is to keep
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: America safe. Let's go back to where we started with.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: You've been in the district a long time in DC,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: so have I, and the city's way more dangerous. And
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Congress runs this it's a complete crapple. So I'm saying,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: like the no Iranians ever going to kill me? I
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: could get carjacked here. Well, I just don't understand how
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: the Congress could run the city and focus on the
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: dangers of Iran when the city.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Is a garbage garbage. But Congress doesn't run the city.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: We could just run the city. It's in the constance,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: in the constitution. But they've given home rule, so it's
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: a Democrat you can hold the Congress. I'd vote for it.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: But but but it is a question of math.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, But I'm just saying, like, why how can people
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: ignore It's like if my own kids are drug addicts,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: but I'm focused on my neighbor's kids, It's like I'm
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: neglecting my own kids. And there's a sense in which
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: the Congress is neglecting the country that elected them in
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: favor of this relentless focus on other people's problems. That's
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the way it feels as an America.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Look, there are lots of problems in America that we
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: need to fix. Why is is DC a pit because
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: you have a mayor and a Democrats city council that
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: won't let police officers arrest bad guys. And in every
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: city you see across the country, whether it's New York,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: whether it's Chicago, whether it's La, whether it's San Francisco.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: If you have Democrats, we see the LA riots where
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: they won't let people be arrested.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: All right, why not work in regime change here? I'm
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: when I use the bully, what do you think I
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: do every day? And even it's your Republican centers stand
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: up and say, I just walk to work this morning
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: over people dying of drug udies. We're gonna shut this
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: place down unless they fixed it. There's they're mad about Putin?
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Like what did Putin do to Washington?
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Nothing? Look in terms of regime change, Let's let's talk
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: this week the the the riots in La. I've made
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: very clear that the cause of those riots are Gavin
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Newsom and Karen Bass. And when you elect communists who
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: hate America, who stopped law enforced from arresting criminals, you
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: get what you get on this men. I agree. My
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: in laws are Californians and they're wonderful people. That HEIGHTI
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: grew up in the Central Coast Californian. I remember I
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: was texting with my mother in law and I think
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: I sent her a video of criminals going to a
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: store and just looting in California, and her response she
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: said something like, well, this is this is really terrible.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: It's I wish we could It's a shame we can't
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: do anything about this. So yes, you can go in
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: and arrest them, throw their butts in jail, put them
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: in a handcuffs, and it stops exactly, And so we
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: know how to fix these things. And DC is is
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I think DC voted if I remember right, ninety two
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: percent Democrat. Democrat policies don't work and they destroy every
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: community that they are in charge of.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Why do Republicans assert their constitutional authority over the city.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Don't they control the Congress.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'd be all for it.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Who's against it?
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Susan Collins is really vocally against it? So on questions
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: of home rule. So, for example, let's take an issue.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: You and I care a lot about the COVID lockdowns.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I had a couple of years ago. In the middle
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: of them, d C was proposing the DC School District
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: was proposing throwing out of school any child that was
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: not vaccinated. And at the time, if I remember correctly,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: it was something like forty percent of the African American
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: students in DC were not vaccinated. So they're talking about
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: literley throwing out forty percent of the kids of public school.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: And so I had a vote on the Senate floor
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: to say, look, they can't throw kids out of school
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: for this, and we ended up having a big argument,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: and part of the argument was home rule where there
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: was and Susan was the most vocal Republican. It's like, no, no, no,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: we have to let DC ron And I'm like, why
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: constitution gives us the power to do it? And it
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: ended up, by the way, every single Democrat, all of them,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: voted in favor of the DC public schools being able
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: to throw out forty percent of the black kids from school.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: And I said, look, you throw a kid out of school.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: You got a fourteen, fifteen year old boy, you throw
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: them out of school. You know what's going to happen next.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: He's going to join a gang, He's going to engage
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: in crimes, he's going to engage in drugs. He could
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: be dead within five years if that kid doesn't get
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: an education or The Democrats were more than happy to say,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: we don't care right now. Our religion is get the
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: vaccine or to help with you.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: But can you see I mean I again once again,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. But can you feel
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: the frustration of people, including your voters, You know, every
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: American at the emphasis on foreign countries in the threat
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: We supposedly face a lot which is fake obviously over
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the kind of slowly unfolding tragedy of what's happening to
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: our country. The dollars spent the aid packages to Ukraine
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: to pay the retirement of civil servants in a country
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: that we have nothing to do with. The endless support
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: for Israel very expensive when people are literally buying groceries
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: on credit in the United States. Can you feel like
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: nothing against Ukraine or Israel any other Let's stop. You
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: said the support for Israel very expensive. How much support
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: do we give to Israel? Will you tell me you
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: vote for it? Yeah, it's about three billion of years
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: the military systems.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Was that the only assistance? Yeah, we just have military assistants.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Israel does not have additional assistance. There's an mlu A
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: memorandum of understanding and it's three billion a year.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: So what is it costing the support of the bombing
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: campaign to protect Israel right now from Iran?
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: So I don't know right now, but I'll tell you this.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Let's go back to the touchdown on foreign policy. American interest,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: our support, our military support for Israel is massively at
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: America's national security, and what is it benefits us enormously?
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Well, before we can, just before we can make independent
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: judgments about whether or not that's true, and I'm certainly
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: open to it, I think we need to know what
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: it costs. So what's the annual cost of defending Israel?
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Do you know? Three billion a year?
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Like the AID, but I mean the cost of the
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: weapons for example, the cost of US personnel, they're the
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: cost of moving ships to the region, which we're doing
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: right now, the cost of moving tanker scusion, all of that.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Do we know what the cost is? So look, the
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: last week I don't know, and there's some lag when
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: the administration on the constitution, the commander in chief has
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: control of the armed forces, and so President Trump has
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: made some decisions that will know the cost over time,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: but I don't know the last week that that I
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: don't have visibility on that. The annual cost is three billion,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: that's that's it's a ten year memorandum of understanding, and
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: that's that's the principal driver of the cost but let
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: me make a point. We get massive benefits from Israel.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Israel shares the Masade is one of the best intelligent
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: sources on the planet. The enemies of Israel, the people
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: who hate Israel, they all hate us. It's almost a
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: perfect overlap. And so if we tried to recreate, if
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: we're just trying to defend America, we tried to recreate
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: the national security benefits of our allives with Israel, it
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: would cost I don't know, thirty billion, three hundred billion.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: So can you elaborate?
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: And again, I'm going into this as someone who's always
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: liked Israel and still does, but I also think at
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: this point, given where we are, it's fair to ask
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: rational questions about what the benefits are. Good. So does
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Massage share all of US intelligence with us? Oh?
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Probably not, but they share a lot. We don't share
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: all of our intelligence with them, but we share a lot.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: It's a close a lot.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: They spied domestically the United States, Oh.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: They probably do, and we do as well. And friends
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: and allies spy on each other. And I assume, why
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I assume all of our allies spy on us, that
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: it's okay with you? You know what? One of the
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: things about being a conservative is that you're not naive
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: and utopian. You don't think humans are all. Part of
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: the reason social doesn't work is is the mantra for
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: each according to his abilities, to each according to his
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: needs doesn't work. As a conservative, I assume people act
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: in their rational self interest.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: It's whytive to pay people to spy on you.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: It's conservative to recognize that human beings act to their
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: own self interest. And every one of our friends spies
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: on us, and I'm not do you like it?
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: That's my question. I'm not asking whether they have motive
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: to do it. Of course they do. I understand that,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: and I and by the way, I'm not mad at that.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: And you're an American lawmaker. So I just want to
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: want to know. I want to know your attitude. You
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: said that you're guiding principle, in fact, the only principle,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: the only criterion. I said, guiding the overwhelming. I wouldn't
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: say only. Is it in America's interest? Is it an
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: America's interest for Israel to spy on us, including on
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the president?
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: It is an America's interest to be closely allied with
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Israel because we get huge benefits for it, and you
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: want to want to see the cleric.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: But I just want to stop on the spine for
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: a second. That it takes place as you know, and
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: including on the in the United States and several precedents,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: and I just want to know if that's okay, and
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: why is it okay? Wouldn't an American lawmaker say to
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: a client state, you're not allowed to spy on us.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I know why you want to. I'm not
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: mad at you, but you're not allowed to. Sure, and
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: I don't care for it. I don't want to be
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: spot on by you. Is that it's kind of weird
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: not to say that, But you don't seem able to
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: say that.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Sure, I would say, don't spy on us. They're going
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: to any way. And by the way, the Brits are,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: the Canadians are like, I don't think, well, I'm not
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: for that at all. I think it's disgusting.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: But we don't actually pay their you know, we're not
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: their most meaningful sponsor. We're not paying for the operations
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: of I.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Want to say, and this is it's weird. We're talking
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: about isolationists, the obsession with Israel. Why is Israel I
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: don't think I'm obsessed with this, okay, but I think
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of people are. And like the question, Israel
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: spies on us, well, so does every other country. Why
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: are you mad at Israel? I?
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Guess no, No, I'm I'm hardly the one who's I've
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: never taken money from the Israel lobby?
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Have you taken money from the israel A pack? So
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: A pack raises a lot of money for me, But
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: it's actually a missnomer because the people who raise money
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: are individuals, So it's not the pack itself but their
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: individual members in the American Israeli uh friendship and foreign lobby. No,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: it's an American lobby. It's the A pack stands for
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: the America Israeli political action. What is it lobby for? So,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: to be honest, not a whole lot effectively. Listen, I
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: came into to Congress thirteen years ago with the stated
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: intention of being the leading defender of Israel in the
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: United States Senate. I've worked every day to do that.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: A pack A lot of times, APAC I wish were
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: much more effective. Like there are swamp of terrified of
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: a pack and APAC. I'm not terrified of apack. At all.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: I'm you're the one who seems little uncomfortable. I'm asking now,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I'm not uncomfortable all. I'm just asking what APAC does.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: My understanding, having known, we could tell you that is
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: the lobbies on behalf of the Israeli government. Oh okay.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: In America has thousands of colleges and universities, and a
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: lot of them, unfortunately, are basically just scams. It's one
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: of those things nobody really wants to talk about, but
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: everybody on some level knows that it's true. What's an
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  Speaker 1: Hillsdale is one of them. It is the exception. They
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  Speaker 1: Understanding Capitalism teaches Americans basic economic ideas. Describes our own system,
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  Speaker 1: years has been the best and most productive in the world.
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  Speaker 1: President Hillsdale not afraid to preach the message our country
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  Speaker 1: markets are good, and they make this country better by
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  Speaker 1: raising well educated students. We endorse this as a college hater,
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  Speaker 1: I love Hillsdale. Go to Tucker for Hillsdale dot com
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  Speaker 1: to sign up for Understanding Capitalism Today. The course of
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  Speaker 1: Understanding Capitalism zero cost, just the truth. That's Tucker for
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  Speaker 1: Hillsdale dot Com to enroll for free. When was the
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: last time APAC took a position that deviated from Prime Minister? NT?
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Yahoo all the time name one? Okay, let me go
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: back and get a little history. If you want to
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: do a deep goub on APAC leak, I don't. I
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: want to do. I shall dive it gets no no, no, no, no no.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I want to get to the core question. APAK is
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: lobbying for a foreign government, and I don't. It's not
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: lobbying for the United States.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: It is lobbying for a strong US Israeli relationship, Okay,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: and so.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: It's not has nothing to do with foreign government. It
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: wants America and Israel to be closely allied.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: But it's lobbying on behalf of the interests of another.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: So that's not true at all, And it's not true. No.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: How much contact do you think APAC leaders have for
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: the government of Israel?
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: No idea, I imagine some. I think the government of
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Israel is often frustrated with APEC. Do you think there's
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: any not nearly strong enough.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Do you think there's any coordination between the Government of
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Israel and APAK.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Do they talk? Sure? If you're lobbying for more US
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Mexico trade, would you talk to people in the US
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: and Mexico and the government sure?
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Like like if so, I'm not mad about that. There
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: are million countries that lobby Washington. I like a lot
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: of those countries, including the Key, but a peck are Americans,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: but not Israel. There are tons of America who lobby
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: on behalf of foreign governments. I know them, I'm related
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: to some of them. I know how it works. I'm
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: from here. So my question is not is it outrageous
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: that foreign government's lobby the United States? They all do, okay,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: including Israel. My only question is why don't we admit
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: that is what's happening. You're denying it, but it's true.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: And why why aren't they registered as a foreign lobby
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: because they're not. But they're not a foreign lobby, No.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: They're not.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: And this is that there's a fever swamp. Look, it's
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: not a fever swamp. These are very reasonable questions. And
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: you've accused me of being obsessed with Israel, which I'm not.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I actually have, and I've seen it being a feverish
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: about it, which I'm not at all. I'm just I
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: find it. It's a very tender spot when you ask it,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: and I don't know why.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: So Tucker, all right, let's go back. I was first
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: selected the Senate in twenty twelve. I came in in
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Obama's second term, and I actually saw Apac be badly
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: wounded in the way they never came back from. And
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: the second term is when Obama did the Iran Nuclear Deal,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: and the Iran Nuclear Deal I think was catastrophic, and
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Apak went all in lobbying against it.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they failed. And I was the leading opponent
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: of the Iran news. Oh, I know, they definitely failed. Yes,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: they failed. And what happened. The Obama white House told
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: every Democrat when I got here, there used to be
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: real bipartisan support for Israel that has largely disappeared. And
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: it's the Obama Nuclear Deal that caused it. Because the
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Obama white House told every Democrat pick you either stand
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: with Israel or you're a Democrat, and you stand with
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: the Obama white House. And almost every single Democrat member
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: of Congress said, I'm a Democrat first, to hell with Israel.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: And then I watched as Apak, every one of those
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Democrats got reelected, and Apak did nothing about it, and
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: it dramatically reduced Apak's influence. It. I watched it happen.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: And by the way I told Apak, I said, look,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: the analogy if the NRA was supporting a bunch of
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: politicians and cared about the Second Amendment. And you had
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: politicians that vote to confass eight people's guns, and the
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: NRA turned around and raised money for the people who
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: voted to confiscate guns. You know what, no one would
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: ever care what they said.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Again, so you're making the case that APACK is not
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: as powerful as people say it is, and I completely
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: agree with I've watched that. And I'm not making the
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: case that APAC is all powerful and they're running everything
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: and putting Floord in the water. I'm not making the
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: case at all because it's not true. I'm only trying
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: to get to the question of what a PACK is.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: And I don't think you're being straightforward about it. And
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Maypak is lobbying on behalf of the interests of a
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: foreign country and they're not registered, and you're saying, no,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: that's not true. You're saying that they don't coordinate with
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: you Israel government. I coordinate that they do. They talk
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: with them. I don't know what they do. Why don't
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: you care? Isn't it meaningful if a foreign government?
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've talked with Israel all the time. Of course,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: all the time.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: But the law is, and a lot of people can
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: prosecut under this law that if you are lobbying on
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: behalf of foreign government, you must register.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: That's it. It's really simple. And I don't know why.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: If I'm working for Malaysia, Qatar or Belgium and I'm
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: working on behalf of its government's interests through a group
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: of Americans who are representing the friendship between those two nations,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I have to register under the Foreign Agent Registration Act,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: and if I don't, I can go to jail. People
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: have gone to jail people I know. Okay, So I
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: don't understand why we don't just be honest and say
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: they're lobbying on behalf of from government. They're coordating with
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: the government. You know that that's true.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: That is not only not true, that is false. They're
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: not coordinating government.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Do you know how APAC raises money for elected officials?
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Like what they do? Like what the actual mechanics is.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: I got it.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I mean they go to people who are sympathetic to
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Israel and raise money and then send it to candidates
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: to agree with them.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: So what they'll do is so in my last election,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: APAC endorsed me and the host of fundraiser and the
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: host of fundraiser in Dallas or Houston or Atlanta or
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: New York or LA. And they'll do a fundraiser and
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: they'll get someone who will host it, and it's usually
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: a business owner, lawyer, doctor, someone who hosts it. And
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: you get typically an a peck fundraiser, thirty forty fifty,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: maybe one hundred people who live in that city, right
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: who care about a strong US Israel relationship. And if
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: they have, you know, fifty people, each of them writes
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: a thousand dollars check and you raise fifty thousand. I've
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: I've been to an APEX know what it looks like.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: But but that is not And by the way, there's
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: no representative of the Israeli government there you have when
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: you're in Dallas, you're meeting with all sinceilly conversations. I
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: know all this, I know all this.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: The question is, is are APEX goals shaped by the
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: goals of the Israeli government to any extent?
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's a.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Really simple from lobbying on behalf of It's a simple
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: question that is ape are APEX goals shaped by the
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: goals of the Israeli government? And I'm just going to
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: ask you a question straightforwardly, and if you say no,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: I think we both know that's not true.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Hey, are they shaped by is that it is?
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Are they coordinating with the Israeli government? Are they talking?
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Is really directing them? What are you want to talk about?
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Farah? The law on lobbying on behalf of someone? It
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: is I hire you, and you lobby on behalf of me.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: I direct you? Does Israel direct Apec? No, they are
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: not lobbying on behalf of them. Do they care about them? Yes?
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: But do you think that it's just.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Interesting because what you're now describing in a very defensive way,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I will say, is foreign influence over our politics now
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: and you began, and it's so transparently obvious to everybody.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know why you would be embarrassed of it.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: You've said that you are sincerely for Israel. I believe you.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think you have some weird agenda you seem
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: to the by the way, Tucker, it's a very weird thing,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: the obsession with Israel, and we're talking about for it.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: You're not talking about Chinese, you're not talking about Japanese,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: you're not talking about the Brits. You're not talking about
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: the French the question what about the Jews? What about
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: the Jews? I'm an anti semi now, Senator, you're just
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: in the question Tucker to me, you're asking why are
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: the Jews controlling our foreign politics? That's what you just asked,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: hardly saying that, and I have that it's exactly what
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: you just said. Well, actually, I can speak for myself
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: and tell you what I am saying on behalf, not
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: simply of myself, but on my many Jewish friends who
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: would have the same questions, which is to what extent?
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting you're trying to derail my questions by
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: following me an anti semi, which you are.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: I did not.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Of course you are, and and rather than be honorable
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: enough to say it right to my face, I are
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: citing a sleezy feeline way implying it or just asking
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: questions about the Jews, I'm asking questions about the Jews
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I have. There's nothing to do with Jews or Judaism,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: and it has to foreign government. Is an Israel controlling
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: our foreign policy? That's not about the you said I'm
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: asked by. You're the one that just called me. I
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: think a sleezy feline. So it's sleazy to imply that
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: I'm an anti semit, which you just did.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: No, I just you give me another reason if you're
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: not an anti semi, give me another reason why the
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: obsession is Israel.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I am in no sense obsessed with Israel. We are
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: on the brink of war with Iran, and so these
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: are valid questions, but you're not. If I can finish,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: you asked me why I'm obsessed with Israel three minutes
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: after telling me that when you first ran for Congress,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: you elucidated one of your main goals, which to defend Israel. Yes,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: and I'm the one who's obsessed with Israel.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: I don't see.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Amaker's job is defending the interests of a foreign government period,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: any government, including the ones that my ancestors come from.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: So that's my position. That does not make me an
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: anti Semite. And shame on you for suggesting otherwise. And
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: I mean that, and that's low and you know it's low.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: So why you just to answer my questions straightforward the
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: way you certainly have the IQ to do it, So
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: shame on you. Is cute, by the way, Tucker, it is.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: It's not cute. I'm offended. I'm obsessed with the Jews.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: You just told me it is sleazy to imply that
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I'm an anti Semite for asking questions about how my
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: government is.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: You want to count how many questions you asked about?
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: What about Jews? What about Israel? What about any you
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: if you're asked about the Jews I have. This has
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: nothing to do with the Jews, whatever that means.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: This has to do with a foreign government, and once again,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: shame on you for conflating the two. They have nothing
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: to do with each other. I'm talking about the influence
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: with you, all Jews are an attack on all Jews,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: which I am not nor would I ever be undertaking.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Now, I'm not attacking anybody, by the way. That's that's
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: who Iran wants to kill is all the Jews and
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: all the Americans. And I'm totally opposed to that.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, But now, because decisions need to be made, we
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: can talk about those decisions, and I plan too. But
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: I just want to get a sense of whether you think,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: having described yourself as an America first person who's only
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: criterion for judgment and foreign policies America's national interest, to
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: what extent you're influenced by a foreign government which gives
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: you a lot of money through its lobby, and you're
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: claiming this has nothing to do with foreign government. They're
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: not courting. Yes, you're spying on us, but doesn't bother you.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: And I'm sort of wondering, like, what is this? This
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: is the one of the weirdstarversations. Whatever had I'll tell
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: you what and I'll answer any question you like. But
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: let's try it.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Are you going to call me an anti semite again?
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Or no, Let's try to ratchet down the temperature a little.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: You're the one who went to motive. I'm asking honest questions.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: I'm just asking questions. Yes, that's it, that is what
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: I'm doing. Let's try to ratchet down the temperature a
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: little bit. Picture of the house to your dreams. Maybe
• 44:53
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• 44:59
  Speaker 1: what you you prefer, there's little doubt that an American
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: flag waving out front enhances the whole thing. What better
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• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Did you ever see an Eddie Murphy movie called The
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Distinguished Gentleman. It's a great movie. It's actually a fun
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: comedy about politics, and Eddie Murphy in the movie is
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: a con man who gets elected to Congress. And he's
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: literally a con man who the congressman dies, he has
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: the same name, and so he runs and they get
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: elected And there's a scene in the movie where Eddie
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Murphy is a freshman member of Congress and he's sitting
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: down with a sleazy lobbyist and he's asking the lobbyists,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: all right, what should my positions be on I think
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: they were talking about power plants and electrical transmission lines,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: and the lobbyists like, well, what do you believe? And
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: the Eddie Murphy is the comment said, I don't care.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: Whatever gets me the most money. I'll do whatever gets
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: me the most money. And the lobbyist says, no, no, pick
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: a side. It doesn't matter what you pick. If you
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: pick one side, we'll go shake down everyone who supports
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: that size and they'll give you money. If you pick
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: the other side, that's fine. We'll just go to the
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: other side and shake down that. That's a little bit
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: the way it works. And you often get leftists in
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: the media who say, for example, if you support the
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Second Amendment as you do and I do, well, you're
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: just bought and paid for by the NRA, And that
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: actually is backwards. I believe in the Second because I
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: believe in the Constitution. Now am I proud that the
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: NRA supports be sure, because people who care about the
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Second Amendment. Want to support leaders who fight for it,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: but it gets it backward. Look APAC, what I ran
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: for the Senate, APEC didn't support me. I supported Israel
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: before they supported me. I'm happy to have their support
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: because they share my objective. You're but not suggesting that
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: you're bought and paid for. I'm not saying that. I
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: actually want to go back to I want to go
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: back and take the transcript because you just said a
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: minute ago. Are you I'm slightly paraphrasing, but are you?
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Are you lobbying for a foreign government because they pay
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: you a lot of money. That's basically what you're said here.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: So you are suggesting let me, let me just be
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: clear about what I think your view seem totally sincere. Yes,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: you take money from people who agree with you. I
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: believe that I'm only I should take money from people
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: who disagree with me. I'm only trying to get to
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: the question of to what extent is the US government
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: influenced by other governments? And it's a lot of It's
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: hardly just Israel. It's hardly just Israel. I don't think
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Israel is the main one. There are lots of governments
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: in China is a massive influence on this city, and
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: it's a huge you know, I couldn't agree more. And
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: there are lots of other the UK, which is a
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: truly sinister place in my opinion as a ethnic britt
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: I can say I think it's that's my view. Maybe
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: you disagree. I think they're on the wrong path. I love.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Without even getting into that, I'm just saying I don't
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: think Israel's the only one, but it's the only one
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: where you're instantly called an anti semi for asking questions.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: And it's also the only government that no one will
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: ever criticize.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: And I find criticized Israel every minute of every day,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: like the only government that people will not criticize Rashida
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Tale just following Benjamin Yahu, a war criminal, Shita Tali.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: But no I said, no one will criticize.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about Republicans that I would vote for, including you,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: And I'm saying, you know whatever, I don't even like
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: talking about Israel. What I care about I never do
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: because it's not worth being called anti semi. It's from
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: impact recipients. But now we are on the verge of
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: joining a war, and I just want to be clear
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: about why we're doing this.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: All right, so and let's get into a ran momentarily.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: But you suggested it was a strange thing that I
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: said a minute ago that when I came into the Senate,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: I resolved that I was going to be the leading
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: defender of Israel. And what you didn't ask is why.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: So let me tell you why.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: No, you said I was obsessed with Israel, and you
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: had just told me that, like you're driving motive to
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: get to the Senate was to defend Israel. I don't
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: think I'm the one to obsessivel Okay.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: Tucker. Words matter, And you know that I said I
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: resolved to be the leading defender of Israel. You said
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: you're driving motive the reason you're in the Senate. You
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: want to be the leading defender of Israel.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: I would think if I ran for Senate, I'd be like,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: there are people dying of drug utes on the street.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: My driving motive is to fight for Texas and America,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: to fight for jobs, and to fight for the Constitution.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: And you played a very very careful word game.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Of a lie to the one who said it, not me,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: So you still haven't asked why. But I'm going to
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: tell you why, okay, and the reason is two full
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: number one.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: Is a Christian. Growing up in Sunday School, I was
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: taught from the Bible those who bless Israel will be blessed,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: and those who curse Israel will be cursed. And from
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: my perspective, I want to be on the blessing.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Side of things, of those who bless the government of.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: Israel, those who bless Israel is what it says, doesn't
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: say the government of It says the nation of Israel.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: So that's in the Bible. As a Christian, I believe that.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Where is that? I can find it to you. I
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: don't have the scripture off the tip of mine. You
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: pull out the phone and use it. It's in Genesis.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: So you're quoting a Bible phrase, you don't have context
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: for it, and you don't know where the Bible it is.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: But that's like r theology. I'm confused. What does that
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: even mean?
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: Tucker.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: I'm a Christian. I want to know what you're talking about.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: Where does my support for Israel come from? Number one,
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: because biblically we're commanded to support Israel.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: But number two, hold on, hold on, you're a senator
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: and now you're throwing out theology. And I am a Christian,
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: I am allowed to weigh in on this. We are
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: commanded as Christians support the government of Israel.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: We are commanded to support Israel. And what does that mean?
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: We're told those who blessed Israel be blessed. But what
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: hold on? Define Israel? This is important? Are you kidding
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: this majority Christian country? Define Israel? Could do you not
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: know what Israel is? That would be the country you've
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: asked like forty nine questions about.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: So that's what Genesis, that's what God is talking in
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: the nation of Israel. Yes, and he's so does that
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: the current borders, the current leadership. He's talking with the
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: political instity called Israel.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: He's talking about the nation of Israel. Nations exists, and
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: he's discussing a nation. A nation was the people of
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Israel is the nation to in Genesis? Is that the
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: same as the country run by Benjamin Netya who raised Yes,
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: yes it is. And by the way, it's not run
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: by Benjamin Netanya who is a dictator. It's it's a
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: democratic but he's the prime minister. Right. But just just
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: like you know, America is the country run by Donald Trump.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Not actually the American people elected Donald Trump the same principles.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Sicily, I'm talking about the political entity of modern Israel. Yes,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: and that is you believe that's what God was talking
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: about in Genesis.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: I do. But but that country's existed since when for
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: thousands of years now. There was a time when it
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: didn't exist, and then it was recreated just over seven.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: But I'm saying I think most people understand that line
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: in Genesis to refer to the Jewish people, God's chosen people.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: That's not what it says. Okay, it Israel, but you
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: don't even know where in the Bible it is.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: So I know, I don't remember the scriptural citation, but okay,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: I keep.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: Like Genesis sixteen or something like that. But yes, it's
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: in the earlier part of the book. But the point is, Tucky.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: It's important to know what you're talking about.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you're so you're saying, as a Christian,
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: if I believe in Jesus, I have to support the
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: modern state of Israel.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that. I'm explaining for me what my
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: vote motivation is.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: But okay, so I'm just trying to understand you said
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: God tells you to support the modern state of Israel
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: in the Bible, in some place in the Bible that
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: you heard about, but you don't know where it is.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: That's your theology.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: You're going back. Am I a sleazy feline again?
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you accuse me of anti Semitism again,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I will say that, but I don't think.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: You will try to be a little less condescending. I'm
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: trying to have a conversation.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Saying, you're throwing this to fout and it's my job
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: to figure out what you're talking about. But I don't
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: understand that you're not letting me. Okay, I'm sorry. I
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: want to be polite.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: That is for me a personal motivation, But I also
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: what I was about to say, I don't believe my
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: personal faith, not everyone who I represent as a Christian.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: It's not an argument for me to give that we
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: should do this because of my faith, and so as
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: an elected official, I don't give that as the reason
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: we should support Israel. That is a personal motivation for me,
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: but I don't think it is the reason we should
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: The reason that I am the leading defender of Israel
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: is because Israel is our strongest ally in the Middle East,
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: an incredibly troubled part of the world, and supporting Israel
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: benefits America. And the clearest illustration of that is what
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: is happening right now. Can you let me just make
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: this point and then and then allays ask what you mean?
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: That's it? Okay? Look Iran. I think the most acute
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: national security threat facing America right now is the threat
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: of a nuclear Iran. I think China is the biggest
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: long term threat, but acute and near term is a
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: nuclear Iran. Okay. And I think Israel is doing a
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: massive favor to America right now by trying to take
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: out Iran's nuclear capacity. And the reason I view Iran differently.
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: We talked before about Iraq. I posed the Iraq War.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: We talked about Syria. I posed military intervention in Syria.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: The reason for that is those did not pose a
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: threat to the United States. I think Iran is markedly different.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: Number one, the Iyatola is a religious zelotic zelot. He
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: is a lunatic, but a particularly dangerous kind of lunatic
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: because he's driven religious fervor. When he says death to
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: America and death to Israel, I believe him, and I
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: think Iran is trying to get a nuclear weapon because
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: there is a very real possibility they would use a
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: nuclear weapon. So you want to ask how to supporting
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: Israel benefit us? Right now, this tiny little country the
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: size of the state of New Jersey is fighting our
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: enemies for US and taking out their top military leadership
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: and trying to take out their nuclear capacity. That makes
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: America much safer.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: So the President has said repeatedly Iran cannot have a
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: nuclear weapon, Yes, and he will do whatever takes to
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. He said that
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: like a hundred times. He clearly means it. I think
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: he will use force to affect that if he feels
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: he has to. I think he's been really clear about that.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it seems that way. Do you
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: feel it. Do you think that's correct, whether he would
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: use force to stop a nuclear weapon.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: I think he has put that option on.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: The state suggest I literally it's going to happen. But
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: just reading his statements, he's made that really clear.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: So what he has been very clear about, and I
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: spoke with the President on Sunday, is he has been
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: very clear to Iran that if they attack us, servicemen
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: and women. There are real consequences, and I think very
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: serious military.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: By the way, this is a sidebar, but I just
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: can't resist. The Prime Minister of Israel said that Iran
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: tried to assassinate Donald Trump twice.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I read your newsletter this morning, and but you
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: believe that's true. Again, I think it was sort of
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: a word game. What is true is Iran is trying
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: to assassinate Donald J. Trump and they have hired hitman.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: Now you pointed out, no, he said that they tried
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: have tried twice to kill him, and I don't know that.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: I don't have any evidence that's true. But I sort
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: of wonder if that is true, why aren't we warreth
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: them already?
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Okay? And I read your newsletter this morning and I
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: thought it was it was playing word games to draw
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: a political point.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: How's that a word game? It's my president?
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: And can I tell you? Yeah? Please? Okay, you rightly
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: pointed out there's no evidence that this clown in Butler,
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: Pennsylvania shot the President was working for the Iranians. I
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: don't think he was. There's no evidence of that, although
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: I would like to know more about I agree he
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: was and what's going on. But I don't find it
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: plausible that he was working for the Iranians. So was
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: that caused by the Iranians? No? But what is true
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: and what your newsletter didn't acknowledge. Is it true or
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: false that Iran is currently trying to murder Donald J.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: Trump and has paid hitmen to do so. Well, that's
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: that's the question. And I don't know the Butler Pennsylvania thing.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Butler just put that aside. I don't know. So so
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: now missful poke when he said those two assassinations were
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: because of Iran. But what he was saying that is
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: right is they're actively trying to murder Donald is there?
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're aware of a plot to kill Trump? Yes,
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: that Iran is paying for. And by the way, when
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: when it has been over the last I'd say eighteen
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: months to two years in the United States. In the
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: United States, yes, they they And let me put out.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Has anyone been arrested, uh for the Trump attempted assassination? No,
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: But they are also so actively paying Iranian hitmen to
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: murder Mike Pompeo when he was President Trump's first secretary
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: of State the first term, rather than John Bolton when
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: John Bolton was National Security advisor to President Trump and
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: a got named Brian Hook, who was Assistant Secretary of
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: State during the Biden can go back.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: To Donald Trump because he's no, no, it's a big deal.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: What do you mean there when no one has been
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: arrested for these assassinations? Aims Trump. Yes, they've hired hitman.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: How do we know that?
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Uh? All right, let me let me break it down.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: People have been arrested. So the reason I brought up Pompeo, Boltman, Hook,
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: who are under active assassination attempts because of their service
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: of the first Trump administration under the.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Biden They say that I've never seen any evidence of it.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Can I give you the evidence? Well, let's just stick
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: with Trump.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, because these are interrelated. So let me
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: make a bloody point. Under the Biden administration, the State
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: Department was spending two million dollars a month providing security
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: for Pompeo, Bolton, and Hook, and they did arrest Iranian
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: hitmen at John Bolton's apartment complex who ran it I
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: think the apartment next to him and were actively trying
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: to assassinate him. And they went and arrested them so yes,
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: they caught Iranian hitmen. Now it so happens Iran. It's
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: not very good at it, and so they but they
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: are actively trying and.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: In fact Trump, he's the president if there'sn't a plot
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: to kill Trump by the Iranians. Okay, so that's you,
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: diskuwed that the Iranians are trying to kill Trump. Of course,
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: I mean that's the most important question. The Prime Minister
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: of Israel just said there have been two assassination attempts
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: against Donald Trump by the Iranians, and I think it's
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: a very fair question. Maybe you disagree to ask what
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: are you talking about?
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, and I agree with you that he misspoke. So
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: there weren't those two attempts. There were two attempts, but
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: the clown and butler Pennsylvania and the other guy on
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: the golf course were not nextams. That's the part that
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: he misspoke. But by the way, when you speak all
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: the time, occasionally, what he said that was accurate is
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: that Iran has actively trying to murder Donald J. Trump
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: and has paid hitman. Okay, but right, okay, that's fine.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: With the two I understand, I understand, but I just
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: want to pull that thread because it's so important. I
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: voted for Donald Trump. I can't paign for Donald Trump.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: He's our president and won the cusp of a war.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: So if Iran, if there's evidence that Iran paid hitman
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: to kill Donald Trump and is currently doing that, where's that?
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: What are you even talking? I've never heard that before. Okay,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: where's the evidence? Who are these people? Why haven't they
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: been arrested? Why are we not at war with Iran?
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: That's a great question to ask. How do you know
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: that that's true. We know that it's true because we
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: have been told that by the military at our intelligence
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: community for the last two years. We meaning who Congress
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: has in the public. I mean, I had multiple testimonies.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: I can send you test.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: You know the names of the people are where this
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: happened or what they tried to do to kill Trump?
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: We do not. We have not apprehended an Iranian hitman
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: trying to kill him. We know that Iran is trying
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: to do so in the United States. Yes, and and
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: by the way, like Iran, this just seems like a
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: huge headline and you're acting like everyone knows this. So
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that Iran put out a whole video
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: about murdering Trump.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: Right, but I've never heard evidence that there are hitmen
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: in the United States, I mean, trying to kill Trump
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: right now. We should like have a nationwide draggedad on
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: this and we should attack Iran immediately.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: If that's true.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Don't you think no, But they're trying to assassinate our president.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: They have been for two years, they are with them,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Well we are trying to Why don't we just knuke Tehran?
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: If they're trying to murder our president. There's nothing that
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: you could do that would be worse for the United
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: States than murdering Trump. And I just don't why you're
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: not calling for the use of nuclear weapons against the
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Iola right now.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: I'm serious. If you really believe there's a user of
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: nuclear weapons, whatever the problem of So mean, you don't
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: seem to take the allegation seriously. I do.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: If you believe they're trying to murder Trump, we need
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: to stop what we're doing and punish them.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Can I ask something? And I mean this sincerely? So
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: all right, twenty years ago, you were I think it's
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: fair to say, in the inter interventionist world, you were
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: a voting time, you were a vocal defender of the
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Iraq War. I was a promoter of the Iraq War,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: and you now and I just look, I think you
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: think you were mistaken. I think you were mistaken. That's okay.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: Let people change and learn, and that's that's part of
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: the journey of being human. Your views have moved, though
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: in my view, they've gone way too far the other end.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: And so I'm just totally confused that I'm saying, hold on,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: this is one of the worst conversas ever read. I'm saying,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: if it's true that Iran is trying to murder Trump,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: we need to move militarily against Iran immediately. That's not isolationism.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: That's the most act. That's a cult of violence, which
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: I am calling for. If we believe that Iran is
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: trying to murder our president, we need to strike Iran.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, but I say things like, well then just nuke them,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: which is what you did. Said okay, just kind of.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Because I'm upset because I'm taking you seriously. You don't
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: take your own statements.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: I take my statements very serious.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: So I've asked you where's the evidence this is true?
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: And you said, well, they're trying to assassinate Brian hook
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: or something, which I'm against. By the way, I'm against
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: hurting any American period, no matter. So you dispet it
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: that they're trying to murder, not disputing. I'm not disputing
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: the arrested the hitman with Bolden not. I don't know
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: why that's even relevant. I'm asking about the President of
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: the United States.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: But it's not relevant that are around now hitmen, the
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: murder cabinet members and Trump's administration. That doesn't go to
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: I've already that they're willing to spend money opposed to that.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: It's awful.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: I am against killing anybody, actually, and especially foreign government.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: I'm asking about your allegation and the Prime Minister of
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Israel's allegation that is.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Killing terrorists is a good thing. Killing people are trying
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: to murder Americans is a good thing because if you're
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: America first, you want to protect Americans. So taking out
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: killing Slovan Laden was a fantastic.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: But you don't believe that they're trying to murder Trump
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: or yes, yes, why aren't you calling for military action
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: against Tehran right now?
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: Because they're not very effective in terms of hit men,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: they're hitmen are not very effective.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: I do think so they're hitmen, but not the bad kind,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: the efficient.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: Cont What they're saying that they're a weak country who
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: is on its knees, and I think we need to
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: and why are we so afraid of them?
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Why are they the biggest threat if they're a weak
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: country that's on its knees because they're trying, I'm trying
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: to keep track, they're trying to develop. Be a little
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: less snarky. I know you're right, that is a problem
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: that I have. I'm sorry.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: They're trying to develop nuclear weapons. They're close to developing
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: nuclear weapons, and even a weak country with a nuclear weapon, Look,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: I believe there is a very real possibility if the
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Ayatola develops a nuclear weapon that he would detonate it
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: either in Tel Aviv or New York or Los Angeles,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: and that would be utterly catastrophic. And I don't know
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: what the chances are of that. Let me compare and
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: contrast Iran to North Korea.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: Can I sask one last question to ask a president
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: you sincerely believe you promise that right now the Iranian
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: government's trying to murder our president. Sincere right now, absolutely,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: And yet you were not calling for military action against
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: the government that's trying to murder a president. Can you
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: explain that? Uh?
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: I don't think they're very effective. I do think we
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: should by the way America is you're willing to take
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: that risk, I think we should protect the president and
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: we should take out our enemies. Is Israel is doing
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: that right now, But aren't they? Why would we? They're
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: trying question why are for regime change? That's a pretty
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: good example of why I'm for a regime change.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you're saying we should just go in and
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: take out the government of Rona or would we outsource
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: it to Israel if they're trying to murder a president?
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, youse? Not like the isolationist. What I'm saying on
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: any military judgment is there needs to be a cost
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: benefit analysis of what are the risks versus what are that?
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: What are the what are the benefits? In this instance,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: I think it is enormously in America's interest to do
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: what Israel is doing right now take out Iran senior
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: military leadership and take out their nuclear capacity. That is
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: benefiting America, and it is a good risk reward. I
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: would oppose invading Iran and putting boots on the ground
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: to topple the government. If the risk got severe enough,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: I would support that, but I think the relative risk
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: is not severe enough to justify that step at this time.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: What I would absolutely oppose under any circumstances is invading
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: Iran and then staying and trying to turn them into
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: a democracy. And part of where Iraq really went off
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: the rails is not only did we topple someone who's
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: fighting radical Islamic terrorists, who's a bad guy, but then
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: we tried the vision of interventionists. It actually overlaps with
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: the vision of a lot of democrats. Let's go promote
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: democracy in the world. And it is our military's job
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: to kill the bad guys to defend America. It's not
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: their job to defend international norms. It's not their job.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: So I have zero desire for the US military to
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: turn Iran into Switzerland. Look, would it be nice if
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: they suddenly became Switzerland.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: Sure if I could wave a magic wand great, but
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to send your kids or my kids
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: to be in front of guns to go make that happen.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: Well bless you for that. I think that's a That
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: is the lesson that I learned from Rock. I promoted
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: that war. Apparently, unlike you, I was dumber, and I
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: think you just articulated the main lesson of it, which
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: is it's hard to do that and we're not good
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: at it.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: But I will. And so we are agreeing on that.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: I will say as qualmently agreeing as a corollary, that
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that that horribly able dictators are okay. And
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: going back to Reagan and the Cold War, we have
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: lots of weapons. I am happy to highlight the brutality,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: the oppression, the human rights abuses of regimes, even though
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: I don't want to invade them, because I think the
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: bully of American leadership is really powerful and I think
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: dictatorships are terrified. So I've spent thirteen years in the Senate.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: One of the things I do frequently is highlight dissidence
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: in Iran and North Korea and China. In Venezuela, people
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: are being tortured. Miriam Ibrahim in Sudan who was sentenced
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: to one hundred lashes and then to be killed for
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: the crime of being a Christian, and I repeatedly went
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: to the Senate floor and shined a light on the
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: government of Sudan. It was corrupt, it was evil. I
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: practically begged Barack Obama say her name. Ultimately, I felt
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: that way with the JA six prisoners look yes, and
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: we look. There is power to speaking out. And ultimately
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: the international Obama never did say her name. He would
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: not say her name. Ultimately, there was enough international condemnation.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: The government of Sudan let her go. And so she
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: is not executed. And I actually I met her. So
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: she had a two year old son, Martin, and she
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: gave birth to a little girl named Maya, and she
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: was in leg irons in prison, waiting for the death sentence.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: They were not going to kill her until she gave birth,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: and they told her, we will not kill you if
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: you will renounce Jesus, and she refused. And I met her.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: She was in d C speaking at a conference after
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: she was released, obviously, and I asked, she's she's a
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: tiny woman, very small woman. I asked her. I said,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: when you were in that prison cell with your kids,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: how did you have the strength not to just give
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: into despair? I mean that you know I've never been
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: threatened with murder unless I renounced my faith. And she
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: just said to me with a real peacefulness. She said,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: Jesus was with me, and it I mean it. Thankfully
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: you and I have not faced that circumstance. But I
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: do think that there is a responsibility. There's still there is,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: and I hope we don't. And actually I'll use another example,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: John McCain, who you and I disagreed with on a
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: lot of issues. I respected and admired him for his
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: service and time as a prisoner of war. I think
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: his policies I disagreed with vehemently and fought against them.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: But the man fought for America, and he was thrown
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: in prison, and he was tortured by the by Vietnam,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: and he was given the opportunity to be released early,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: and he turned it down because he thought it would
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: be dishonorable to lead before his fellow service bet and women.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: And when I first got here, there were no women there. Okay, man,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: we're righting that when I first got here, McCain hated
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: my guts and and and he actually referred to me
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: and Rand as wacklebirds. I remember, I have up on
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: the shelf, I have a baseball cap that a grassroots
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: supporter gave me with a picture of daffy duck and
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: labeled wackobirds, which I liked and laughed with. But when
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: he did that, I went to the Senate floor and
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: I gave a speech praising John McKay. And it was
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: the day he had like attacked me publicly, and it
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: happened to be it was the fortieth anniversary of his
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: release from the Hanoi Hilton, and I was consciously. I
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: just talked about what a privilege it is to serve
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: with someone who suffered for his country, who served and
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: I didn't get into where we disagreed on policy on
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: that speech. I just said, you know, the man is
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: an American hero, and I'm proud to serve with him.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: But that was meant to be a statement as that
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: if you attacked me, I'm going to praise you, not
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: for things that are not praiseworthy. If I disagree with you,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: I will not be shy about saying it, but for
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: things that are praiseworthy.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: I remember that it was twenty thirteen, yeah, and I
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: felt the same way. I went to his cell at
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: the Hanoi Hilton and I, oh, wow, I agree, I
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: agree with you about McKinny. I just want to end
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: by asking you specifically about what's going to happen next
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: in Iran and what should happen next. So you've called
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: for regime change. You said you don't favor the US
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: military participating in any kind of regime change. You said
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: you don't think and bless you for saying this, that
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: the US military should try and turn it into Belgium,
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: thank god. But there is a third option where it
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: turns into Syria, where it's this open wound and it
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: causes massive migration and further destroys Europe as Syria has,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: and that's a huge cost and where lots of people die.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: And we're just when always get murdered in Syria again?
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: Are you worried about that?
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: Sure, and listen that lots of bad things can happen.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: But going back to what we talked about the principle
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: of defending America, I agree with President Trump that Iran
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: with a nuclear weapon is an unacceptable risk to America
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: and we need to stop it. I agree with President Trump,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: and I'll make a point, but he's not for regime change.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: He's not, so he and I disagree. Look, I think
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: he thinks it would be better. He has not seties
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: for it. And you know what, Look, it is consequential
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: when the President of the United States says I'm for
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: regime change, So I understand why he hasn't. What he
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: has said is he's drawn a red line and said
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: Iran will not have a nuclear weapon, and the only
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: acceptable outcome is complete dismantlements. They have centrifuges, they're enriching
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: uranium right now, they're trying to develop a nuclear weapon.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: He said they must have complete dismantlement. I led fifty
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: two senators, Republican senators in a letter where we said
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: we agree with President Trump. That's the red line, complete dismantlement.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: I agree with President Trump. I agree with him supporting Israel,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: taking out Iran's military leadership, taking out their nuclear capability.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: And I'll point out, look, if you look the first term,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: I am hard pressed to think of a single foreign
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: policy decision Donald Trump made the first term that I
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: disagree with. And that's not entirely accidental because I spent
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of time the first term in the Oval
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: office with him. And what happened in the first term
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: often is you would have in the administration, you had
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: interventionists in the administration, you had isolationists, and they disagreed.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: They would fight within the administration, and often what it
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: would give is an opportunity for me to come in
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: and say, hey, there's a middle path here. That President
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: Trump agreed with frequently, and it's worth noting in the
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: first term, he most assuredly was not an isolationist. Look,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: he took out General Solimani, which I emphatically agree with,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: and in fact, I introduced a resolution that we voted
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: on the Senate floor commending him for taking out General Solimane,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: who was the leader of the IRGC and who was
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: responsible for killing over six hundred American servicemen and women.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: When Trump came in, Isis had a caliphate that had
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: grown up under Obama that was about the size of
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: the state of Indiana. And Trump came in and utterly
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: decimated them. He killed the terrorists, took away their caliphate
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: and defeated them, and he took out bag Daddy, the
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: head of ISIS. I mean, those are not the accents
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: of an isolationist, but at the same time, an isolation
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: is it's just a slur designed to control. I mean,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: I've never been an isolationist. Don't even know what that means, okay, Rand,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: Paul is my colleague. Rand is an isolation and Tucker,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: you've become one. And I don't mean it as a slurg.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: You consistently say you have said. Actually, I want to
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: read from your newsletter because if you ask what an
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: isolationist is your newsletter a couple of days ago you wrote,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: Iran cannot have a nuclear bomb, and we're hoping to
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: get back to the negotiating table, we will see there
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: are several people in leadership in Iran that will not
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: be coming back. Trump said following the strikes, it's worth
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: taking a step back and wondering how any of this
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: helps the United States. We can't think of a single way. Okay,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: That to me is the essence of isolationist. And let
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: me just ask you when when the Iatola chance death
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: to America, I believe him? Do you not believe him?
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: Do you think he doesn't mean it when he says
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: death to America? I think he hates America for sure,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: and I'm opposed to that. And do you think he's
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: willing to act on it. It's not just hate America.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: He also is leading a country and trying to.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: Gunner certain circumstances for sure. So the question is do
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: you act in a way that makes that more or
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: less likely? And that's a that's a tough call. It's
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: something that you can debate. One of the ways you
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: shut down debate is by calling people names like isolationists,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: pretending they're like pro Nazi or something, or as you did,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: claiming I'm an anti Semite. That's not a way to
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: get to a solution or have a rational conversation. That's
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: what he make people be quiet, and I'm against that. Okay,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: So if you don't let the label isolationist, how would
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: you look Rand? And I serve with Rand. Rand is
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: a friend of mine. But Rand opposed every military action
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: in every circumstance. Don't oppose every military This whole thing
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: is infantile, and you know that it is. It's a way,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: it's a way to call from military actions. Do you
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: support and make sum and make them be given me
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: another name? If you don't like that, I'm not kinded.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: Have you be quiet me an hour and a half.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: I'm asking if you don't like the name isolation is,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: what would how would you describe it?
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: I would I would describe myself in the same way.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: You falsely described yourself in this conversation. Falsely, Yeah, false?
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: What did I say? False?
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: You said that the only thing that matters in a
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: foreign policy decision is whether it helps the United States.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: I didn't say the onlyest of the predominant, but that's
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: what I understood. So let me revise what you said
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: and apply it to myself and say, the only thing
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: that matters is whether or not it serves the United States.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: And I feel very stung by what happened in Iraq,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: if I'm being honest, possibly because unlike you, I guess
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: I supported it, and I saw us get drawn into
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: it in a way that nobody anticipated. And I saw
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: the cost just about three trillion dollars, and the cost
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: on so many levels to the United States was just
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: so profound, and I was fairly amaz Gosh. It reminds
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: me of Kaiser Wilhelm in nineteen fourteen saying my men
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: will be back by the time the Yves turn, and
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: of course that destroyed Christian Europe. So it's like, you
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: don't really know where these things are going once the
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: shooting starts. That's my only point. And calling people names
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: anti semi isolationists to get them to stop talking is
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: not the way to serve your countries.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: That's so I'm trying to have a real and serious conversation.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: And look, a lot of this has been contentious. I
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: wish it had not, because, as we started out by saying,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: you and I agree vehemently on eighty percent of the issues,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: this discussion is focused on the twenty percent where we don't.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: You know, I will say, look on Iraq. You look
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: at the twenty sixteen presidential campaign where you had seventeen
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: Republicans running. If you set Rand aside and his views
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: are on one side, there were only two candidates on
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: that stage that opposed the Iraq War. Me and Donald
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: Trump were the only two. Everyone else thought the Iraq
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: War was a great thing. I think it was a disaster.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: So you and I agree on that as well. In
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: my view, you went, I think your four policy has
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: gone too far. So I mean, let me ask you,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: is there a military action Trump has undertaken that you
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: agree with? Because I've not heard anything military. Look, I
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: would say it's really simple. I believe in self defense.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: That's why I keep firearms at home. I think it's
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: morally justified to defend yourself, your family, your property, your nation,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: and so to the extent that you can deter a
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: threat through violence, violence always being the least appealing choice,
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: violence always being if I can finish, always being a tragedy,
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: I think you can justify the use of violence and
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: self defense. That is my personal view, and that applies
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: to me and to the country that I would know.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: Those are my views. That's not an isolation his view.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: It's on ance Israel view, it's on anti Semitic view.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: With apologies, it is I think a pretty common sense view.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: But my problem is that lawmakers in Washington are light
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: on detail with these things, and they speak, as you do,
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: entirely in moral terms. These people are bad, these people are.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not speaking entirely in moral terms. I'm interested in
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: killing people who are trying to kill us if we
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: had that's different.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: Are you are you now?
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: Because you told me that the government of Iran is
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: presently trying to assassinate Donald Trump and then said, then.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: Disputed, there's literally nobody.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: Then why don't you say military action right now against Iran?
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: We are engaging in military action right now. Why don't you.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: Why don't you support offensive military action.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: We're bombing the craft out on Israelis and we're supporting
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: them israel Is, Okay, so.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: Why shouldn't the US military defend its own president. I
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: don't understand that. Look, and it goes back to because
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: you don't really believe it's true. That's why everyone nobody
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: disputes it.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: Tucker on the Moon? What other conspiracy? Do you not believe?
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: It was nine eleven in inside Job? I mean, like, what,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: so where I've asked you the names of these people?
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know, because the US military and the intelligence
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: agencies have testified before Congress or and what did they say?
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: Iran is trying to murder Donald Trump and as hired hitmen.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: Do I know the name of the hitmen? No? I'm sorry,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: and I don't think we do either, because we would
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: apprehend them if we knew their names. Then why don't you.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: Take it seriously enough to support killing the Iyatola in
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: response to protect our president?
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: But you don't.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: This doesn't make even make any sense, and you're calling
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: me an isolationist. If I believed so it's true, I
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: would support military action against the government of Iran.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: Okay. That's interesting because there is literally kill our president.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: Out of five hundred and thirty five members of Congress,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: I am not aware of one who disputes that Iran
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: is trying to murder Donald J. Trump. That's not even
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: the loneius Democrat doesn't dispute that. So, so I don't
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: you're saying if you believed what, what is I think
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: a fact that they are trying.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: You think it's a fact. What is the fact exactly what?
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: They've hired them in the United States? Yes, Americans. Yeah,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: he's not in Iran, so they haven't hired hitman. Are
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: the hitman American?
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay, I'm telling you what And by the way,
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not the CIA, I'm not the Department of Defense.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you what they have told us.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not disputing it. I'm merely saying we are. I'm
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: not I'm saying the logic train has a massive hole
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: in it. If you believe that's true, then you should
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: by definition support killing the people trying to kill our president.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: But you don't support that now, Tuckery. So I'm wondering
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: what's going on here, Tucker.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: You took offense to the word isolationists, and I genuinely
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: don't mean it as a pejorative. I disagree with it.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: But if you don't like that term, I don't know
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: how else to describe what is a coherent foreign policy
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: that says, I believe it's surrounded by two giant nations.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: And by the way, isolationism has long been a school of.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: Believe in self defense. I'm not okay, but not into
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: the slurs, the anti semi stuff.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: I just don't like that.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you what I believe. So, but is there
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: a single military action Trump took that you agree with?
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: So? Do you agree with taking out General Solmony? Oh?
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: It turned out better than I thought. I mean you
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: said at the time it would like lead us to
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: World War three. I thought I was worried about it.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: I've seen that it weppened, but that proved not the case.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: I was wrong, as I have been many times. Did
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: you agree with taking out the ISIS Caliphate? But my well,
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: if we took at the ices calife, why are they
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: running Syria right now?
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: And you're for that? Why is that?
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: What?
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: What do you mean? I didn't say I'm for that.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: You don't obviously have a problem with it. I did
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: Isis is now running Syria? You're like, I will see no.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know why, but by the way, I
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: know why a topp it's hilarious, you.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: Know, but no iOS run Siri. But that's that's fine.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: We'll just kind of wait and see. On isis not
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: a big deal. You know what a big deal they're
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: trying to kill tral on a second. I want to
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: get back. You know why I don't care and why
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: and you do your like trademark smirky laugh.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: I know why you don't even talking about what? Why
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: don't I care?
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know why you tell me because you think
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: it's okay because they're not making angry noises or something.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: But by your own standards, their Isis is so immoral
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: that they must die. But now they're running Syria, and
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: you don't think that we should take military action against
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: the government of a because why they're isis what.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: I said is, I don't know how good or bad
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: it'll be. Look, I wasn't pushing a sod out. He fell.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: He fell on his own in part because he was
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: heavily supported by Hesbil, and when Israel took out the
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: Hesbel of leadership, he lost his basis.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: But the current ISIS leadership. You don't think is bad.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: You can't say it's terrible that ISIS runs a country.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: I am concerned about it, concerned, aren't you horrified? I
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: want to see what they do.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: But they got to wait and see attitude on ISIS
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: now on the government of Syria. They are not actively
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: that I am aware of trying to murder Americans. And
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: that's a real dividing line. Are you trying to murder Americans?
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: Are just saying it's a little weird that we wag
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: just wre against ISIS, and now they're running a country
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: in the Mediterranean. I think that people would be very,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: very upset about that.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: That you don't see it by the way they did
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: you agree with Trump taking out albag Daddy the head
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: of ISIS.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: I'm totally opposed to ISIS and what I care about
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: his results actually, And if taking out the head of
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: ISIS ends ISIS, I guess I'm for it. But now
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: ISIS runs seriously, but I'm wondering if I.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: Mean my point is or at the time.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've taken so many different positions over the years,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: some of which have been wrong. I really do my
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: best to be honest and correct if they are and
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: admit that I was wrong. I'm not one of these
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: people whos like I've always been consistent. No, my views
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: change all the time because the facts change all the time.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: You're not going to get consistency for me. You're only
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: going to get sincerity. Well, look, I will say this,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: and look, I believe you're sincere.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm odd. I'm just some guy watching trying
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: to figure out the right thing from America. And I
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: think because you believe you are mistaken, and I agree previously,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: I think you've over corrected, over corrected.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: I'm worried about turning this mess in Iran into a
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: much larger mess.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: That's the concern.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: And that's a reasonable worry. Look, I know it's reasonable.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: And I know you've been like you're like ready to
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: call me all these names for asking you're just asking questions.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: Yes I am.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: So here's my question to you. If the Iyatola is
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: killed in Iran and he very yeah, very sure. I
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: have just read in the paper this morning that Israel
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: try to take him out twice and Trump told them
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: not to.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: I have read that. I don't have in the confirmation
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: one way, do you think that they should take him out?
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: So I actually talked about it. As you know, I
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: do a podcast every week, Verdict with Ted Cruz, and
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: I actually talked about it in the latest podcast, and
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: I said, look, I've seen the reporting that says that
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: Trump asked them not to take out the Iatola, And
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: what I said the podcast is, I think it's reasonable
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: for them to decide not to try to take him out.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: What they've done is targeted just about the entire top
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: level of the military, the people that actually conduct the war.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: I can see an argument that taking out both the
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: head of state and a religious leader could make him
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: a martyr and could cause more problems than it's worth.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: And by the way, if you take out the Iotota,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know if the next guy isn't just as bad.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: And so I am what happens to the country. I
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: don't know. But you mentioned before, and I want to
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: go back to this. You said something like you, like
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: most other politicians, are in aged in moral terms, and
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: let me be clear, I am talking about national interest.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: I am talking about protecting America. So there are bad
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: guys on planet Earth that I don't think we should
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: take out even though they're bad guys. I'll call them
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: bad guys, but I'm not willing to use US military
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: force to take them out. In this instance, what Israel
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: is doing is taking out their capacity to build nuclear weapons.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: Why because they judge, judge the risk is too high
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: if they've done the nuclear weapons. I understand that.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: I mean I understand that. I think it's in progress.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: I think it'll probably be achieved, probably with US military support.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: Who knows, but the President said he's for that.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: And by the way, where the military support is most
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: needed is Fordah, which is the under It's a bunker
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: that's under a mountain, and Israel's taken out most of
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: the rest, like the Tons which is their big and
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: Richmond's site. They bombed the hell out of it. Fordah
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: was deliberately built deep into a mountain so that Israel
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: couldn't take it out. And there's an active discussion because
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: the US has bunker buster bombs that are big enough
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: to take out ford thirty pounds, yes, and Israel dozen so,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: so the one military piece nor the aircraft to fly
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: them too.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: Right. But here's I guess what bothers me is that
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: I said two weeks ago. The real goal here is
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: regime change in Iran. It's not I think that's Trump's goal,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: and it's your goal, it's Israel's goal. I'm not attacking anyone.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's important to be honest and not
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: lie and not attack people for telling the truth.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: So I believe I've been assiduously honest in this. But
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: words matter. You said the real goal here is regime change,
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: and it's your goal, and I want to be clear.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: You said it was your goal. I want to be
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: clear because words matter. Do I support regime change? And
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: what I like a government that doesn't hate American isn't
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: trying to kill us in Irani? Yes, that's a good outcome.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: Is that the objective of these military strikes, I don't
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: think necessarily. I don't know if it's if it's Reel,
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: it's not my objective US.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: If Israel decides we're going to decapitate the government and
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: try to foment an uprising against it, should the United
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: States participate in that operation in any way?
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: Look, I have not called for killing the Iyatola, and
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: there is Nations in war generally refrain from attacking and
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: killing heads of state. Now the Itola doesn't. He's trying
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: to kill Trump. We talked about that, but we shouldn't
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: punish him for it. Look, there has been a long
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: standing nations in war have refrained from killing heads of state.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: I have not publicly called for killing the Iyetola. What
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: I've called for is doing whatever is necessary to stop
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: him from getting nuclear weapons. In the first Trump term,
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: what that meant was maximum pressure. So in the first
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: Trump term, I spent a lot of time urging the
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: president to withdraw from the disastrous Iranian nuclear deal that
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: Obama had. President Trump agreed with me. He did that,
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: and then I urged him to end the oil waivers
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: and to sanction the hell out of the country, and
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: it ended up crippling their economy. So Iran at the
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: time was selling two million barrel of oil a day
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: or one million barrels I'm sorry, one million barrels of
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: oil a day. When President Trump ended the oil waivers,
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: it cut their sales to three hundred thousand barrels a day.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: At the end of the Trump term, the Iranian economy
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: was in shambles. They had massive inflation. I think the
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: regime was teetering. I think it might have fallen. I
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: would use economic sanctions and I would use moral suasion
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: to try to effectuate.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, see top of the Reguman by whatever means? What
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: happens then? How many people living around? By the way,
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know the population at all. No, I don't
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: know the population. You don't know the population of the country.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: You seek to topple.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: How many people living around? Ninety two million? Okay? Yeah,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: how could you not know that. I don't sit around
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: memorizing population tables.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: overthrow of the government.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: Why is it relevant whether it's well because ninety million
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: or eighty million or one hundred million.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: Well because if you don't know anything about the country.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: I didn't say I don't know anything about Okay, what's
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: the ethnic mix?
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: So off, I'm wrong. They are Persians and presuminantly Shia. Okay,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: you don't know anything about Iran, So okay, I'm not
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: the Tucker Carlson on Iran. You're a senator who's calling
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: there the one government, the one who about the country. No,
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: you don't know anything about the country. You're the one
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump. I'm
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: not saying that.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: Who can't figure out general soon you believe they're trying
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: to murder Trump? Yes, because you're not calling for military
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: strikes against them in retaliation. And if they really believe
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: that carrying out military strikes today, who said Israel was
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: right with our help?
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: I've said we Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: Well, this you're breaking news here because the US government
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: last night denied the National Security Council Spokesmanlex Fiffer denied
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel's
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: behalf in any offensive capacity.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: We're not bombing, then Israel's bombing. Then you just said
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: we were.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: We are supporting as you're a senator if you're saying
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: the United States government is now we're with Iran right now,
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: people are listening.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: We are not bombing them. Oh, Israel is bombing them?
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: And why do you do the snide Oh okay.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: You mean because it's this is super high sticks stuff.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: It's this is a huge country that borders a lot
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: of other important countries. Of all the world's energy comes
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: from there, so we have let me don't want another disaster.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: You don't want the Iatola refers to Israel as the
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: little Satans, America as the Do you believe him when
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: he says it's the great Satany? Do you think do
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: you think if the Iatola could murder both of us
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: right now that he would? I did I believe it? Okay?
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: I assume no good faith in the part of the Iatola.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: And if your implication is like I'm pro Iotola or something, no,
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: it's not good faith.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: It's that just saying if.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: You're a lawmaker, you're a powerful person in Washington. This
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: is the most powerful country in the world. If you're
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: calling for toppling in government, it's incumbent on you to
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: know something about the country and to think through the
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: consequences of that.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: And you haven't, and you don't. And I'm saying that right, Okay,
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: you are you engage in reckless rhetoric with no facts.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: And to be clear, I'm not calling you the other letterman.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: You are put out a newsletter attacking Donald Trump and
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: calling him complicit Donald tru Yes, you have and and
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: by the way, pained for Donald Trump.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, this is like after anti Semitism, this is the
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: last refuge. You're an antisemonin and you hate Trump.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have Trump, I will read you put out
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: a whole newsletter saying Trump is a rand in America first,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: and here's what Trump said in response. Well, considering that
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: I'm the one that developed America first, and considering that
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: the term wasn't used until I came along, I think
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: I'm the one who decides that for those people who
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: say they want peace, you can't have peace if Iran
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: has a nuclear weapon. So for all of those wonderful
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: people who don't want to do anything about Iran having
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: a nuclear weapon, that's not peace. That was directed at you. Man,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: this is you got me busted. No, I'm just saying, Okay,
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: I'm my views.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: Look, I like Trump. I can't paign for Trump. I
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: know Trump. I talked to him last night. Not against Trump,
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: and you know that I buttolic. I think that we
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: should be very careful about entry bring into more foreign
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: wars that don't help us when our country is dying.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: When you say our country is dying, look, yes, focus
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: on our country.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: I'm all for it. But the naivete you don't even
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: know how much money this costs.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: See, you don't know anything about the country, who's government
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: you want to throw overthrow, and you're calling me reckless.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: I want to stop a lunatic who wants to murder
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: us from getting nuclear weapon there could kill millions of Americans.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: You say, I can't see how that benefits American anyway.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: That is bizarre and by the way, isolationism. Your foreign
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: policy is the foreign policy of Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama,
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: and it doesn't work.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: I'm a big leftist. This is so silly, and now
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: I'm Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama. Okay, let me just
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: see one less thing.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: So how is your foreign policy different from Jimmy Carter's? Seriously, please,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: but I I asked that question seriously. I don't even
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: know what you're talking about, Jimmy Carter. So what century
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: is this?
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: I am the product of the last twenty five years
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: watching carefully being involved in the periphery, and I see
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: an unending string of foreign policy disasters that have impoverished
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: in unending string. So unending string, they would include Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria,
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: and our inability to stop the hoo Thies, by the way,
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: in Yemen, which exposes us as we can.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: I grieve over that.
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: So these are failures you helped preside over some of
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: them as a member of the Senate.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: Of what failures for policy failures have I presided of?
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: Well, we were unable to beat Russia in the war
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: that you supported against Russia. You've been spending the last
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: three years telling us that Vladimir Putin is evil and
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: we're going to beat them with other people's children, and
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: a million of those kids are now dead.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: You've never apologized for that. But by the way, look,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: the level of number of falsehoods you lay out just
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: in one statement are rather you haven't supported the war
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: against Russia, are rather stunning. So the war against Russia
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: was caused, which I had explained at great detail by
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden's weakness. But the war, if you want to
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: talk talk Russian Ukraine, I'm happy to talk about it.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: Do you think that's been a success. No, it's been
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: an absolute disaster. Okay, But you supported it. Shouldn't you apologize?
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: No, you should apologize. I'm not going to engage in
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: the demanding of apologizing. So I'm gonna I'm.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: Gonna I'm like, that's my point, is all. No one
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: ever says I'm smarter? Do you just throw out like
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: you if you want to talk, we can talk, Okay.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: I do I want to know why that seems like
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: a true disaster for the United States. You have supported it?
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: Do you believe Joe Biden's weakness caused the war in Ukraine?
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: I think Joe Biden's aggression caused it. His aggression aggression.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: She demanded that Ukraine join NATO. How does that help
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: the United States? Uh?
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: It is a terrible idea and I have vigorously opposed
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: Ukraine joining NATO. Okay, so that's what caused the war? No,
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: it's not. Do you want to know what caused the war? Look,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: you do the dismissive. You're not actually interested in facts.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: You're like, okay, Okay, tell me it seems super You're
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: absolutely right, And I'm sorry that is a tick of mine.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: That is wrong, and I mean this was sincerity. I'm
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: sorry to do that to you. I just think it
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: seems so obvious that sending Kamala Harris to the NOO
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: Security conference to say you're going to join NATO is
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: what triggered the invasion days later?
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: Okay? So can I get this will take a few
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: minutes to lay out because It's complicated, but I think
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: the facts matter. I think two things caused the war
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: in Ukraine. Number one, I think Biden's incredible weakness and
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan. Now, I believe we need
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: to leave Afghanistan, but not with the incompetence that involved
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: that led to thirteen servicemen and women being murdered by
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: terrorists there. The way Biden did that was disastrous, and
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: I think our enemies looked to the commander in chief
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: and said, this president is weak. And when when that
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: withdraw was so disastrous, I said publicly at the time,
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: the chances of Putin invading Ukraine have just risen tenfold.
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: But secondly, and this is critically, I agree that was awful,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: the withdrawal, and it was a major cause of all
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: said hey, this president is weak, and so it invited
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: And by the way, look, I despise war, and I
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: think weakness and isolationism produces war because it invites aggression
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: from our bad guys. It's why I agree with Ronald
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: Reagan's peace through strength. The best way you avoid war
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: is being strong enough that your enemies don't want to
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: mess with you. But let's get back to Ukraine and Russia. Look,
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: Putin didn't wake up two years ago and decided he
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: wanted to invade Ukraine. He's wanted to invade Ukraine for decades.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: Putin has referred to the collapse of the Soviet Union
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: as quote the greatest geopolitical disaster of the twentieth century,
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: and Putin has long been explicit his desire is to
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: reassemble the old Soviet Union and in fact reassemble the
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: Russian Empire that was even bigger than that. If you
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: want to reassemble the Soviet Union, the natural place to
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: start is is Ukraine.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: Do you really believe that Putin has territorial designs on
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: Eastern Europe?
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, what countries? He has said that you can go
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: and read his hold on I don't want to lose
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: the narrative of what happens, so we can go back
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: and do that. But I don't want to lose telling
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: the story first, So let me explain this, and then
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: if you want to go back, we can take all
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: sorts of digressions, but just give me a couple of
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: minutes to lay out the facts of what happened. He
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: has wanted to invade Ukraine a long time, and he's
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: done it before. In twenty fourteen, he invaded Ukraine, invaded Crimea.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: When Barack Obama was president, he invaded the southern portion.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: He did not invade the rest of the country. Why
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: and the reason is the principal source of revenue for
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: Russia is oil and gas, and the natural gas pipelines
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: are on right through the country of Ukraine, and he
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: didn't want to jeopardize his ability to get gas to Europe.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: So in twenty fifteen, Putin started a project called Nordstream too.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: Did anything happen in twenty fourteen in terms of what
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: wasn't there a coup in Ukraine run by the Obama administration.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: Let me finish telling that I told you we'll take
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: lots of digressions in a second, let me finish telling
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: the narrative. Twenty fifteen, Putin began building Nordstream two. Nordstream
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: two is an undersea pipeline that runs from Russia to Germany.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: The entire purpose of Nordstream two is when it was
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: completed and turned on, it would let Russia circumvent Ukraine
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: and get its gas straight to Europe. In twenty nineteen,
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: Nordstream two was almost complete, and the conventional wisdom in
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: Washington was this is terrible, but there's nothing we can
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: do about it. I didn't believe that, so I drafted
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: sanctions legislation that was targeted to stop the pipeline. My
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: legislation passed the Senate with overwhelming bipartisan support, It passed
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: the House, and Donald Trump signed it in law.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: Why would Kais ask, why wouldn't you want Germany to
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: have cheap.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: Energy because it empowers Russia? And I believe in making
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: our enemies weaker and our friends stronger. Has blowing up
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: nord Stream made Germany stronger. Not being dependent on Russia
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: has made Germany stronger. Just so you think Germany is
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: stronger now than it was four years ago, I think
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: not being dependent on Russia Germany has all sorts of problems,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: and many of them are domestic to their own politics.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: Hold on, let me finish. I'm trying to you know,
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: but what.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: You're saying doesn't Germany seem so much weaker now that
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: its energy costs have spiked and the manufacturing sector is
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: collapsing because of that.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: Let me finish. I'm focused on America's interest. I don't
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: want Russia stronger because I believe Russia is our enemy.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: You and I disagree on that, we can talk about that.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: But I want our enemies weaker. I don't want to
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: go to war with Russia, but I want our enemies weaker.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: I don't want Europe dependent on Russia. I don't want
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: Putin rich with oil and gas revenues and able to
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: invest in a military and pose a threat to America.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: So the sanctions legislation that I authored, it passed. Putin
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: stopped building nord String to Literally the day that President
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: Trump signed my sanctions legislation in law, he signed it
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: h if I remember, right at seven pm on a Thursday.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: Putin stopped construction at six forty five pm. So the
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: sanctions legislation worked, and it killed the pipeline. The pipeline
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: lay dormant for over a year, just to hunk of
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: metal at the bottom of the ocean. Joe Biden came
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: into office. He was sworn in on January twentieth, twenty
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: twenty one. Putin resumed deep sea construction of Nordstream two
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: four days later, January twenty fourth. He did so because
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: Biden had foreshadowed weakness on this issue that foreshadowing was accurate,
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: because several months later, Biden formally waived the sanctions on
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: Nordstream two and let putin complete the pipeline. In January
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two, I forced a vote on the
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: Senate floor to reimpose sanctions on Nordstream two. The week
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: of the vote, President Zelenski and Ukraine publicly called on
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: the Senate please pass this sanctions legislation. It is the
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: last best hope of stopping Russia from invading Ukraine. At
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: the same time, the government of Poland put out a
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: formal statement from the Foreign Ministry to the Senate calling
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: on the Senate to pass my sanctions legislation and said,
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: if you do not putin will invade Ukraine. The day
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: of the vote, Joe Biden came to Capitol Hill. It's
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: the first time in his presidency he had done that.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: He went to the Democrat senator's lunch and he personally
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: lobbied them on this issue, not any other issue. This
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: was his number one issue that he came to lobby
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: them on. They came out of that lunch every Democrat
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: had voted with me twice against Nordstream two. Forty four
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: Democrats flipped their vote. They voted in favor of Russia,
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: in favor of Putin, and four weeks later Russia invaded Ukraine.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: That was the direct cause of the war. And if
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: Trump had been president, there would be no warr.
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: Mean, I asked, I, of course disagree with your analysis completely,
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: but I want to be respectful, So tell me what
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: you disagree with. It's such a long conversation. I've spent
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: the last couple of years on this, and I just
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: respectfully disagree with with your analysis. But I don't doubt
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: your sincerity that you believe that Putin is our enemy,
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: that it's Western Europe should not be allowed to use
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: Russian energy. I mean, you seem to really believe these things.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: My question is about results, because I think it's relevant
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: to what we're seeing now in Iran. You look back
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: after having you personally voted to send billions and billions
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: and billions of US tax dollars to Zelensky to support
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: a civil service in the war against Russia and all
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: this stuff, can you say that what you did.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: Worked? So I can say what I did personally sanctioning
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: Nordstream two worked and prevented a war. And if Trump
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: has still been there. If the sanction had been in effect,
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: there would be no war. I'm in favor of avoiding wars.
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: But once the war broke out, you voted to fund
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: it to the tune of billions and billions of billions, and.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: To be clear, and did that work? Okay? To be
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: clear what I voted for. I voted for the initial
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: targe of funding, and then I voted against the subsequent ones.
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: So it hasn't worked. If I've been in between, I
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: haven't been on the full Ukraine, full throat at Hawkside
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: or the anti from day one. I voted for the
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: initial trancha funding because I wanted Russia to lose. I
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: think the Biden administration administered it in a horrible way.
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: I think they wasted a ton of money, and I
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: think what they did was actually incoherent because they were
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: funding both sides of the war. I mean, I was
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: very vocal and among other things flooding one hundred million
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: dollars to Iran, which was used, among other things, to
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: help the nuclear program, but also to make drones that
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: Russia used to fund. So here's my concern.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to defend the Biden administration really did
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: a lot to erect the United States. Yeah, did the
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: most damaging and thatstration where we sit now, Russia is stronger,
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: it's closely allied long term with that.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: Russia is stronger. I don't think that's right.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: I think it's pretty obvious that it is. But it's
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: certainly not destroyed, and it's allied long term with China.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe that look that, there's no doubt Biden's foreign policy
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: drove Russia into the arms concerning they also have a
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 2: long history of Adamosa.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: Western Europe is weaker and more in debt. The United
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: States is weaker and much more in debt. Look hold on,
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: So I agree, we're agreeing, we're agreeing.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: Here's my question.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: Have you questioned any of your previous assumptions? Did you
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: play any role in this at all? Are you responsible
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: at all?
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 2: Of course? And like you, you said, what if you learned?
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: Like you you said, you've changed your mind. Yeah. I
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: voted for the first funding of the Ukraine War, and
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 2: I voted against every subsequent funding stream because it wasn't working.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: And I looked at what was happening and said, this
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: is not working. And had the money been spent in
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: an intelligent way? And not wasted. And had it been successful,
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: I might have been willing to fund more, but it
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: wasn't successful, so I voted no. And the war's going
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: to end. Look, President Trump campaigned on ending the war.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: I think he's frustrated because Putin has been less than
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 2: eager to reach a deal to end the war. But
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: it's going to end. You're not going to see another
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: dotting zoning from me. He wants to end the war.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: I think Zelenski has behaved horribly. I think his Oval
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: Office meeting will go down in history as the worst
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 2: Oval Office meeting of any leader that has ever come
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 2: to the Oval Office. I think he behaved like a
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: pompous ass, and I think he is unrealistic. I think
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: Zelenski spends his time with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: in the New York Times, and he believed he was
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: going to the Oval Office as a resist figure. And
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: I think he's doing real damage to his country. Right.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: You described him many times as a hero, Uh do you?
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: I don't believe. I don't recall ever using the word hero.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: I will say, Look, I'm not as zelenski cheerleader, and
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not in the business of saying everyone we support
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: has to be a say to everyone we opposed has
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: to be a villain. I'm not in the morality game.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: I'm in the US interest game.
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: Why did I want Nordstream to stopped because it would
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: strengthen Russia and Russia's our enemies.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: It's entirely US interest.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: Did you support the industrial sabotage against it blowing it up? So?
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: I think you believe America did that? Is that right?
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: Of course? Okay?
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: I think the chances of that are zero. You think
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: Russia did it? No, I think Ukraine did it?
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 2: Okay? Do you don't know? So, I don't know who
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: did it.
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: In terms of the theories that have been put out there,
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: the idea that Russia blew up their own pipeline never
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: made any sense to me at all.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 2: That that just I can't even articulate why they would
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: do that.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: The idea that Biden did that, Look, I could see
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: it being in US interest to do that, to blow
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: up Doorstream too.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: I just think Biden was too weak. I don't believe
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden.
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: But are you?
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: And I guess you?
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: And so that leads the Norwegians, the the Ukrainians, NATO
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: whatever Loo looks me too.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: You know who benefits, and it leads me to think
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: either the Ukrainians blew it up or Ukraine's allies. I
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: don't think Biden did, because I just Biden was so weak.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: I don't think he would give the order, right, I
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 2: find that implausable in favor of it. Look, I was
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: in favor of stopping it. I think I think blowing
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: it up is a was a good thing. So so
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm supportive of that, But I don't think America
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: did that. I don't think Biden gave that order, but
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: in general Trump giving that order, but he wasn't in office.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you think that the largest act of industrial
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: sabotage in history helped our allies in Western Europe or
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: other native.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: Fellow NATO members, I gotta say, I don't understand for
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: some reason, you are really invested in defending Russian I
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 2: don't get that. I'm not attacking you with that. I'm
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: genuinely like, I don't get why you're you're so passionate
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: about defending Russia.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: Actually, I was defending Western Europe, the home of my ancestors,
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: and that you know, tripling their energy costs and destroying
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: their industrial No not no, not like you just accused
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: me of being an anti Semite and isolationist in a
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: Russian actia. I've not called you in neocon once, which
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: you are, but I have.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: That's absurd. I yeah, those neocons that opposed the Iraq,
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: But like that's.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: That's okay, okay, But I haven't called you that because
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: you you just called called me that you just did.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is you're triggered because I
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: use name calling.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: I was triggered when you call me names. And I'm
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: triggered once again that you're calling me a Russia defender
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: when in fact I'm defending Western Europe.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: And I don't think that.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: Do you think, well, well, he's literally our enemy. You
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: are funding a war against him. Do you think he
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: is you're saying where his enemy? Do you think Putin
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: is our enemy? I think it is a tragedy that
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: your policies, your policies specifically yours, helped drive Putin into
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: the arms of China, forming a block that's larger than it.
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: So you won't answer that question. I don't he is
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: literally our enemy right now. That is a tragedy for then.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: But you're saying, but you won't say he is our enemy,
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: and look like.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: You know, in what sense? I don't want to be
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: enemies with Russia. It doesn't help us at all. It
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: may help some people in the United States, but in
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: general to be I.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: Don't want to be at war with Russia.
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: I don't think it is in our Interestsia with Russia,
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: with China, that's but.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: Listen, no doubt, and I want Russian China attention. So
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 2: I agree with you there. But but I think Putin
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: is a KGB thug. I think he is a bad man. Now,
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: I don't want to go to war with him over that, okay,
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 2: But but I'm not naive and like I watched You're
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 2: a bad man, He's a bad man. Okay.
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: Look I watched your episode where you went to the
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: Russian UH grocery store, and I was that disloyal?
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: Do you think it was just weird? It was like
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: a promo video for Russia. I don't understand. I'm well,
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: I mean if sacking you when I ask why, because
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: I'm genuinely like, I don't like when you called me
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: and mean, you weren't attacking me. You were just noticing. No,
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: But may I ask you a question too?
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: Here, Well, let me just answer yours by saying, the
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: United States, the bien deministration, with your helpful support, began
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: this war on Russia in response their invasion in Ukraine.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: And one of the things there was they kick Russia
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: out of swift off, you know, national financial system. And
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: my first response was, this is going to really hurt
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: the US dollar, which it has, and I hope someday
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: we can have a conversation about that. It's really really
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: hurt the one thing that we needed, which was to
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: retain dollar supremacy. So I was interested in the in
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: the economic condition way. That's a reasonable point and a
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: serious conversation. I'm aware, I'm aware, and I was like,
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: I can agree with you like like no, no, But
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: I was accused of being I think it's weird that
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: you went to a Russian grocery store and said it
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: was prosperous. No. My point is it looked like that,
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: It looked like a commercialist, wonderful. It was an argument
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: against the efficacy of sanctions, sanctions against Russia, which you
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: casually and enthusiastically imposed, scoring a little moral victory every
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: time had no material effect that helped the United States.
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: Russia is backstop by China, and when you and I
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: recommend that you go there and see it, it is
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: way nicer than Washington, DC, way nicer. To me, that's
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: a tragedy. I was horrified and angry at my leaders,
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: including you. It's like, I want to live in a
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: country that's nice, low food costs, and no homeless people.
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: I don't understand why that's too much to ask. So
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: do Did I get worse with a run?
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: I just want lower food costs. How's that?
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: So?
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: Look, it's a weird argument that you do often, which is, listen,
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: things are crappy in America. Liberal liberals have done bad
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: things to America, so we shouldn't worry about any liberals.
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: Republicans send Republicans don't care about us. They're focused on
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: other countries. You wrote that our country is dying and
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: you don't care because you're focused on.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: So you believe that I don't care about America. I
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: guess you believe Donald Trump doesn't either, like nobody cares.
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: I believe that.
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: Your focus is way too on other countries. It's way
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: too focused outward. The money that you send abroad could
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: be used here and should be what money that I
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: send abroad? By the way, at emphatically agree with with you.
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: You don't even know. I emphatically agree with with Donald Trump's,
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: for example, dramatically slashing USAID. I think the only reason
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: we should be deploying that is to benefit US interest,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: national security interest, and keep Americans safe.
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: And so, how much did you vote to send to Ukraine? Look,
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: you were in about eighty billion dollars eighty billion, Yeah.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: So you're in.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: You love just giving these broad characterizations that are not accurate.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm genuinely puzzled. Look, I don't want to go
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: to war with Russia, but I don't think there are
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: our friend. I think Putin I agree. I think Putin
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: is a murder I think he's a liar, and I
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: think he does not wish well on America. Okay, And
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: there's a difference between saying that, just like Reagan referred
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: to the Soviet Union as an evil empire and Putin
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: was in the KGB.
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: Look, my father was in prison and tortured in Cuba.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: I hate communists. It was actually Batista that tortured my dad.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: My aunt was in prison and tortured by Castro. I
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 2: hate communists. I think commune is evil, and so I
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: think there is a value to There is nobody who
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: stands up to communists China more in the Senate than
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: I do, because I think they're evil. Do I want
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: to go to war with China? Of course not, that
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: would be ridiculous. But I think we have all sorts
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 2: of tools to stand up to our enemies. And I
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: think China is engaged in a thousand year war against
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: the United States.
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: They're trying to defer, so all over the map where
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: you're a family, imprison in Cuba and China, all this stuff,
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: I just.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: I agree with you.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: I'm totally opposed to communism, always have been. I don't
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: think that Putin loves us. I'm distressed by the moral
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: condition of most leaders around the world. Most of them
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: they all kill people. I'm against that.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying I wish to focus here when I
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: say something. I actually don't agree with that statement. They
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: all kill people. There's a moral relativism. So I don't
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: think Donald Trump is a murderer. He doesn't kill people.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 2: We don't have constant Donald Trump.
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: And you just said world leaders all kill people, and
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: there's a moral relativism.
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 2: I'm hardly a moral relative.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: You are?
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: You just that statement was the estimated semi and isolation
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: and moral relativists.
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, No, do you just say world leaders all killed,
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: saying I'm against killing people in general, so and hyperventilating
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: about how Putin was in the KGB or whatever. I
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 1: just want to serve American interest in pushing him to
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: China's not in our interest in it. And you helped it,
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: and you haven't apologized. And by the way, you're the
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: cheerleader I helped drive him into China is an elite lie.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: The war against him. No, I authored the legislation that
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: shut down North Stream too, that prevented the war. And
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: if Trump had still been in the White House, we
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: would have had the war. And look the comment you made,
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: the reason things like moral relativism are so dangerous. Oh,
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: everyone kills people. No, there is a difference to the
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 2: United States relative. We don't have concentration camps. We don't
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: torture and murder people. You look at China where they've
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: got a million prisoners in concentration camps. You look at
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: Putin where he's got prisoners in Siberia, he tortures and
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: murders his political opponents. Donald Trump doesn't do that. America
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: doesn't do that. And by the way, what countries don't
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: do that? I see the game. It's like the rest.
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: I'm distressed. Now I'm responding with facts you don't like,
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: the facts.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: That I don't even know what facts you're talking about.
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that Trump puts people in concentrations. I
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: can't pay for Trump. I love Trump, so did I. Okay,
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: so this is something with Trump. I'm merely saying some
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: more emphasis on what's happening inside the country.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: That's it. Is there a moral difference between America and
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: our enemies in America? And what is it articulated? Its
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: valuable to say, why? Why are we a better country
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: founded on better values than China?
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you about and I know because the whole
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: purpose of America is to protect the God given rights
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: that each person possesses by virtue of being created by
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: God and by being human. That's the point of our
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: founding documents. And no other country articulates that in the
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: way that we do. And that's that's what I love
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: about America. My family's been here a long time. I'm
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: never leaving. So I we love the country, despite going
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: to a Russian grocery store, despite asking questions about a pack.
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: I love America is the truth, and I love Trump
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: so but I just want more emphasis on America.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: That's it. I emphatically agree with America first. I think
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump does as well, and I think his foreign
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: policy has been vigorously protecting that. And I agree with
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: the president.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: Good well, I appreciate your taking all this time, sure,
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: and I know you didn't mean it when you call
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: me those names.
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you, senator.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: So it turns out that YouTube is suppressing this show.
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 1: On one level, that's not surprising, that's what they do.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: But on another level, it's shocking. With everything that's going
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: on in the world right now, all the change taking
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: place in our economy and our politics, with the wars
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: on the cusp of fighting right now, Google has decided
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: you should have less information rather than more, and that.
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: Is totally wrong. It's immoral.
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: What can you do about it, Well, we could wind
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: about it. That's a waste of time. We're not in
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: charge of Google. Or we could find a way around it,
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: a way that you could actually get information that is true,
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: not intentionally deceptive. The way to do that on YouTube,
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: we think, is to subscribe to our channel. Subscribe, hit
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  Speaker 1: the little bell icon to be notified when we upload
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: and share this video. That way, you'll have a much
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: higher chance of hearing actual news and information, so we
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: hope that you'll do that,