Latest / The You Project / #1835 What's Your Sh*t Threshold? - Dr. Jodi Richardson

Transcript

#1835 What's Your Sh*t Threshold? - Dr. Jodi Richardson · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Doctor Jody, Welcome back to the show.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me back.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Craig, how are you.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm actually really good.
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, I'm not like it's I'm good today.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: A couple of days ago had a bit of an
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: incident that really threw me for a six But generally speaking,
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: most days I'm coping pretty well, feeling pretty fit and healthy,
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: and feeling like I'm getting on top of most things.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: So I've just become more accepting of the fact that
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: I have so many things that I have to leave
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: unfinished when I move on to something else and just
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: try to get done what's most important. And that has
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: helped with kind of my headspace because I used to
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: just struggle if I couldn't tie off loose ends all
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: the time.
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  Speaker 1: Could you give us without divulging state secrets or anything
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: you don't want to, but I like this. I don't
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: think we've spoken about this, the idea of leaving leaving
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: things that are in complete or like for right now,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: we can't put a bow on it, so we've got
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to move on. Can you give us an example, even
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: if it's a hypothetical.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I can Oh, you.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Know me, Craig I'm always happy to talk about what's
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: going on. Oh, how many examples do you want? There's
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: a lot of loose ends. I'll give you an example
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: from today. So I am working on just updating my
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: speaker kit so that it is representative of where I'm
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: at with new presentations and testimonials and all of that
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: sort of thing. And I've had it graphically designed, and
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: now I'm in the tweaking phase. I don't know if
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: you're into a bit of tweaking when you get something done.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: And I had a client call, so i was just like, oh,
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: just get this done. I'll just get this done on
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  Speaker 3: just get this done. I'm looking at the clock, going
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  Speaker 3: there is no one I'm finishing this thing in the
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: next six minutes. I'm like, right, put it aside, get
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: prepared for your client call. Had a great chat with
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: a client, finished that about twenty minutes ago, and then
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: took a phone call from my mum, had a chat
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: with my daughter who's home, and got ready for this.
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  Speaker 3: And so when this, when we finish here today, I'll
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: go back and do another ten minutes on that and
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: then I'll be leaving again.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: So that's just one example, but there are many.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Is there? Does it if you have to leave things
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: somewhat incomplete temporarily or up in the air, is that
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: a source of anxiety?
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: It really is, like I can actually feel my heart
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: racing or just beating a little bit faster just talking about.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I really don't like it.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: But I was complaining a bit about it about a
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: month ago.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: It was just really bothering me.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: But when I spoke to a few friends who you know,
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: lived similar kind of lives, just sort of got the
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: impression that it was bothering me more than it was
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: bothering other people I talked to. And there's no real
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: solution for this. This is not something that you can change.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: When you work for yourself and you're a parent and
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: you try to keep yourself fit and healthy and well,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: and parents' appointments who might need driving somewhere, and kids
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: are getting braces, and all of the things that interrupt
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: kind of the flow. It's not like I'm sitting at
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: a desk, you know, or in a workplace where I
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: can solely focus. I have lots of other responsibilities, and
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: so I've got to the point where it is what
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: it is, and that acceptance has helped for the most
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: part because.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: Talking to Tiff yesterday actually on her potty, and I
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: think of it like sort of taking different hats, you know,
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: taking one half hat off and putting a different hat on.
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  Speaker 3: It's like, okay, what's going on now? The parent hat
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  Speaker 3: or the uber driving everyone everywhere hat, or the you know,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: the work hat, whatever it is, Frather, it'd be different.
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  Speaker 3: But I also love the life I live and it
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  Speaker 3: comes with a lot of highs and a lot of
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  Speaker 3: responsibilities and a lot of enjoyment, and so I wouldn't
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  Speaker 3: change it. But yeah, the loose ends do make me anxious, definitely.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I've got a question for you which I think is
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: broadly relevant. So we all get a bit anxious, we
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: all overthink a bit, we all get a little bit
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: distracted or distressed or a combination thereof and other things.
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  Speaker 1: But then a lot of us have to temporarily put
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: that on hold and then step into an appointment, a
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  Speaker 1: zoom meeting, a job, a responsibility. It's like, if I've
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  Speaker 1: got an appointment with you at one thirty, which I
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: do today, and at one twenty six, the ass is
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: falling out of my world. Bad luck, yes, bad luck.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: Ups.
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  Speaker 1: If I'm cracking the shits at one twenty four, or
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I'm having a bad time at one twenty two. I
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: have to do my very best, which wasn't happening today, thankfully,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: but it does happen, and then you know, okay, so
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  Speaker 1: at one twenty six, sorry, at one thirty today, for example,
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  Speaker 1: I have to step into this space with you and
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: do my very best to be present, to be interesting,
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  Speaker 1: to be relevant, to be mindful, and to hopefully create
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: something with you that is good for people to listen to.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: And I need to get out of my own bullshit
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: for a moment, right, So my question is is there
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  Speaker 1: a protocol that you have or that you can share
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  Speaker 1: with us, because obviously we don't want to. You know,
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  Speaker 1: it's like you show up for work and you've had
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: a bad morning with the kids or whatever. You don't
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: want to bring that to work. But also also you're
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: human and you feel what you feel, So good luck
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: answering that.
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  Speaker 2: Doc My gosh.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, Well, the first part of the question was, and look,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: you can I just tell you one thing, like it
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: is not just me, like it is all of us,
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  Speaker 3: Like what you just said, it is life. It's being
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: a grown up and sometimes I literally say to myself,
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: just grow up, just you know, like, because there's a
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: little part of me that's having a little tantrum because
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: I don't get to finish what it is I need
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: to be doing in that moment. And then I stop
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: and think, and this is this is my protocol that
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: I use. I think, right, what is the most important
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  Speaker 3: thing for me to be doing now? Not what am
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  Speaker 3: I going to be chipping away out? Because I feel
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: anxious about something being unfinished, and I ask myself what's
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: most important? And the other thing Sometimes when I find
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: myself spending time on something that like I'm presenting this afternoon,
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: for example, I'm doing a virtual presentation this afternoon, and
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: I'm all prepared for it, but on the day of
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: the presentation, all the day before the presentation, I'm always
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: going back to my notes, what deliverables I've promised on,
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: exactly what I'm presenting, you know, just getting in the moment,
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: getting in the flow. And when I was working on
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: the speaker it this morning, I'm thinking, right, when do
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: I have to have this done by? So it's those
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: two questions, what's the most important thing for me to
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: do right now? And I'll be thinking, right, it's not
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: what I'm actually doing. All right, When do I have
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: to have this thing I'm working on done by Okay? Conceivably,
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: it's quite okay if I have it done by Monday, Like,
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: that's okay, plenty of time between now Monday, right, So
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  Speaker 3: put it aside, and what's the next most important thing
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  Speaker 3: for me to do?
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  Speaker 2: And there's that discomfort in disconnecting.
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  Speaker 3: The minute I refocus on the next kind of task
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: and put myself in the headspace of what that is
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  Speaker 3: and who I'm.
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  Speaker 2: With, I actually feel a lot lighter.
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  Speaker 3: So it's kind of a bit like when you don't
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: wash the windows for three months and then you wash
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: the windows and you realize, well, actually that wasn't so
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  Speaker 3: bad and it didn't take as long, and I've spent
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: three months complaining and worrying about doing it. Yes, So yeah,
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  Speaker 3: did I answer the question? Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good. And also this is I mean a
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  Speaker 1: little bit of a side Andrew Huberman. You know who
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: he is, right, I do?
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  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: So have you heard him banging on about the anterior
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: mid singulate cortex. Have you heard him talking about that?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I'm familiar with some of its function, but I
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: haven't heard him talk about it lately.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, So he talks about how there's part of our
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  Speaker 1: brain IMCC where when we do hard things, hard things
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  Speaker 1: that we should do but don't want to do, but
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  Speaker 1: we actually do the hard thing, we go oh fuck.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm always doing this to myself where I give
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: myself these little tests all the time, where I like,
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  Speaker 1: for example, yesterday went for a big walk and I'd
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  Speaker 1: walked about ten thousand step seven eight k's and on
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  Speaker 1: the way home, I went into the cafe to get
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  Speaker 1: me it was about two to get myself a coffee,
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  Speaker 1: and they've got these really comfy chairs and I was
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  Speaker 1: just about to plunk myself in a comfy chair and
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  Speaker 1: then this little voice goes, don't sit down, bitch, stay
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  Speaker 1: standing right, And I'm like, I so wanted to sit down,
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  Speaker 1: but I just make myself be uncomfortable. For like, my
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: back was sore, and I'm like, just be uncomfortable. You're
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: going to be home in three minutes. Don't be a
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  Speaker 1: fucking baby. You know. I know this is by the way,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: everyone don't talk to yourself like I talked to me.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: This is definitely not a recommendation, but it's funny because
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I think the bottom line is when you
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  Speaker 1: and I'm not talking about being reckless, but when you
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: strategically lean into the uncomfortable things I'm talking about were
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: some degree of strategy and wisdom, and you know, like
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  Speaker 1: you're not doing dumb shit or silly shit, but you're
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: doing stuff that's uncomfortable. But there's a benefit to the discomfort.
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  Speaker 1: And then over time, the thing that was hard, even
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: though you're still doing the same thing, it's not hard
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  Speaker 1: anymore because you've built that muscle, so to speak. You know.
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  Speaker 1: So I don't know how I got there, but you know,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: I feel like that that ability to be able to
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: go right now, this is what I need to do
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: to be the best version of me. So what I
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: need to do in the next hour or ten minutes
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: or whatever it is.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Have you read or heard of Brian Tracy's book
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: Eat the Frog?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: I have, Oh so good.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I have not read that book, but I know of
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: him and I know of that book.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: And yeah, so that the concept.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: It's still the shit thing, first, is it?
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  Speaker 3: Pretty much?
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah? And there's a quote in the book, and i'ld
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: paraphrase it's it's something along the lines of the most
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: successful people are the ones that can identify what's most important,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: get started quickly, do it well. That's basically the ultimate
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: key to success. Now, you know, we've got to make
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: good decisions about what's important. But it is. There's so
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: much to be said for it because procrastination is not
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: a time management problem.
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  Speaker 2: Adam Grant was writing about this on Instagram today.
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  Speaker 3: To quote him, he said, it's an emotion regulation problem,
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  Speaker 3: and we feel uncomfortable and it's.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Just in our nature.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: I think probably a lot of people listening will be
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: nodding thinking, you know, I think we do. We put
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: things off that are uncomfortable, whether it's a conversation or
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: a project, or you know, asking for a raise or
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: doing anything that makes us feel you know, anything but
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: kind of good.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I like it.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: We'll put it off, but we have to ask ourselves,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: will you know I'll give you an example with our daughter.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: She she had a thorn in her foot, and we
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: have hawthorn trees. I don't know, if you've on our
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: property and they have some wicked thorns, creak like they're
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: all and they can go right through, right through a
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: thong into a you know, we shouldn't be walking around
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: in thongs. But anyway, she didn't like the idea that
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: it had to come out and was putting it off,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: and I said, right, let's agree it has to come out.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, okay, it can come out now.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Hang on. She had a thought in her foot and
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: she didn't want it to come out.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: She was anxious and frightened about what it would feel
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: to have it pulled out and removed.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, I would think it would feel great.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: Oh no, right, I think it was just really painful.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: And yeah, and she was possibly anticipating more pain. I suppose, right, right, right,
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: And I just said pretty calmly, look, I get it,
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  Speaker 3: I get you don't want this, but let's just agree
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: it has to happen. And whether it happens in the
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: next minute or in thirty minutes, it has to happen. Yes, yeah,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: let's just get on with it. But yeah, look, you
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: know it's good in theory. Depending there are a lot
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: of things that influence our abilities about to make those
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: decisions for ourselves.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, lots of things.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I think self regulation, I mean, self reflection, self awareness,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: self regulation. It's like the ongoing, ever present challenge, like
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I'm always obviously because of my research and stuff. But
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: when I say always but consistently and regularly thinking about
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: what is this like for the listener? What is this
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: like for the person I'm in a conversation with or
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: a negotiation with, or what's it like for Melissa to
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: work with me? Or what's it like for Jo to
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: be on the other side of this moment right now?
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: And that kind of self awareness focused train of thought
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I think is valuable. But then on top of that,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: when you have some kind of awareness or awakening or
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: you know, to then be able to self regulate and
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: self manage so that you can get the best out
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: of you in whatever the moment requires to be good
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: for you, but to be good for them. And this
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: is a long winded way of telling you that maybe
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: well for me. My ultimate example of this was back
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: in the day when I was a trainer on the
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: floor for decades, and in the early years, I would
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: literally do on a very quiet day jode, I would
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: do ten hours of PT on a quiet day, so
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: on a busy day when I you know, because early
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: days it was me and a couple of others, but
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I would regularly do regularly twelve hours PT and on
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: the a few exceptional days more, which is silly. But
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: the thing was, so you get up at I would
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: get up at four point thirty, I would train myself.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I would get to the gym. I would clean the gym,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: clean the mirrors, clean the toilets, vacuum the staff, wipe
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: the benches, because I was it. I was the entire
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: staff pretty much for a while anyway, right, And then
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I'd start training people at five point thirty or six.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: And then by the time you get to five o'clock
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: in the afternoon, I mean, your body is going, what
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: the fuck are you doing? Sit down, and your brain
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: is going sit down, lie down, do anything but do this.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: And also obviously your cognitive functions not at an all
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: time high, your emotions have changed. And that was such
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: a and I'm really glad for that time because then
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't always do it well. But and I used
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: to say this to myself, and I used to say
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: it to my team. I'd say, now, how many sessions
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: can you do per day? And keep them all at
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: a very good level, like, because if I'm training you
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: at six am or six pm, you should get the
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: same product. Yes, I can't say to you, sorry, missus,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: six pm I've been awake for fourteen hours and I'm
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: really hungry and my back's a bit sore, and you're
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: my twelfth client. So therefore you're going to get a
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: four out of ten, Craig. But that's just because you're
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: training at six pm. But if you want to do
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: at seven am, you'll get a nine out of Well,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: you can't do that because one, it's unprofessional too, it's
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: bad for all kinds of reasons. And three people are
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: paying the same dough irrespective of the time, and so
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: that and by the way, of course I didn't always
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: nail it, and of course I had better and worse
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: sessions and days, but that me thinking then and then
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: trying to get my team around. I would call it
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: performance threshold or shit threshold. So performance threshold, how many sessions?
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Like what's your number? And for some people, honestly, it
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: was four or five a day, which is cool, and
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I go, so that's your limit. You're not doing seven
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: or eight and it might build over time, but right now,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: you know, if you can do four great sessions with clients, fantastic,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: well done. Do four great ones and zero shit ones?
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Yes, Well, I'm thinking about what you're saying, and I'm
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: thinking that it's with you and the volume of training
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: that you did. It's really unsustainable to be able to
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: show up for every single one of those sessions and
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: be nine out of ten Craig or even eight out
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: of ten Craig, because you're asking too much. And so
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: I do. I like the fact that you were able
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: to talk to your staff and able to help moderate what.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Their workload was.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: But I think that we have to be kind to
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: ourselves as to how we can show up and what
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: we're capable of.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: And that is going to vary day to day. Yeah,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: that is that is.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Going to vary a lot, like for so many reasons.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: Have you been drinking the night before, how did you sleep?
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: What stresses have you got going on? Like just how's
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: your own you know, all of that kind of thing.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: And so the how long did you do that that
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: volume of training for and.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Is a lot?
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Why did you need to do so much?
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Originally? So it's funny as I talk, I'm thinking, I'm
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: picturing it in my mind. So my first studio was
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: eight hundred meters from where I'm sitting, Yeah, on Hampton Street.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: It was two two five nine A Hampton Street. It
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: was an upstairs, fifteen hundred square foot premises and initially
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: it was me and then a young trainer. By the way,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: you know, this is just a side bar, but interesting.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: So when it opened, when I opened the first Harpers,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: there was no personal training qualification, there was no personal
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: training industry, there was no accreditation, there was no insurance.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: So I was in an industry that doesn't exist, and
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: I was constantly coming up against barriers and hurdles. Of
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: course that would be broken down over time. But even
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: when I went to the council to get permits to
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: they're like, well, it's a gym. I'm like, it's not
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: a gym. There's no members We've got gym equipment, so
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: it's a gym, and I go, no, it is. I've
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: also got pictures on the walls, but it's not an
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: art gallery, right, So like people did not understand. I go,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I'm a consultant and I consult people. And there are
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: no classes, there's no mass. People can't walk in off
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: the street and pay for a membership or pay for
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: a session. Everything is you know. So but yeah, I
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: did that for a long time. I did that from well,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I started peteeing. I started in the fitness industry in
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: eighty two as a gym instructor, so I was eighteen.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: By the time I was twenty, I was running gyms
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, twenty two, I started peteing in other
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: people's gyms when no one knew what it was. I
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: was essentially really taking people through up program and getting
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: paid for it. But then rather than going on, here's
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the card, I'll take you through the card, then I'm like,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: fuck the card off, I'll just train you freestyle. And
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: that morphed into what we have now. And of course
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: it would have happened without Craig Carpet was going to
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: happen anyway, but I was just on the ground floor.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: And then you know, and then I opened my first
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: center when I was twenty six. But from when I
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: was probably twenty three or four, I would have done
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: at least fifty personal training sessions a week until I
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: was at least forty five, and I owned I owned
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: a gym, and Tola was about eight or nine years ago.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, but what sort of a toll did that take
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: on you?
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah? It was all right, I mean, like physically, I
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: will say I got lazier over the years, I will
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: say my effort and my focus over because I ended
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: up where I had three gyms, I had at any
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: given time at least fifty or sixty trainers across those
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: three gyms, two other businesses, and so my attention to
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: detail with some things wasn't there. And yeah, but it
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: took a toll. It took a toll. But also I
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: don't know, it's you come out the other side and
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: you go, yeah, look, I mean, here are some of
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: the costs, but the benefits far outweigh the cost. I mean,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: I learned how to punt of business. I learned how
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: to lead people. I learned how to perform under pressure
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and make hard decisions about hard things. I learned how
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: to resolve conflict. I learned how to navigate a million
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: different people and personalities. And I learned how to teach
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: and coach and mentor. And you know, you just like
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: at the coal face of building a brand and a
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: business and all of the moving parts, you know, technical
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: and human and professional and biological, psychological, sociological, et cetera.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Like it's way more educational than any course you can
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: ever do. It doesn't matter what the course is I
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: learned more in my first year of business than I've
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: learned in I'm now in my tenth year of UNI.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: So UNI is great. Yeah, but you really want to
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: learn fucking jump in the fire.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: You do.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: It's so true.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: The same was true with teaching when I'm back in
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: the day thirty thirty years ago. Almost not quite. Yeah,
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: you just because yep, you have to think on your
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: feet and the unexpected happens, and you have to be
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: able to, like you say, solve problems and lead people,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: answer questions and deal with all the balls.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: In the air.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: So are you now that it's funny? Like this is
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: not my podcast, but I just wanted to ask you
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: another question.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: It must have been hard to let go of all
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: of that.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: Because you've worked so hard, like it's something to be
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: incredibly proud of what you built, and it takes a
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: huge amount of courage to step up and say, yeah,
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: three gyms, lots of staff, you know, like to be
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: able to it must have been very very hard to
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: sort of start whinding it back or imagine perhaps you
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: sold the gyms. I'm not sure, but hard to step
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: away from something you've spent so much time on.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Hey, yes, and no, yes, in some ways very much,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: because a lot of my confidence and self worth and
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: brand was Craig the fitness industry, not but guru, right Craig,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: you know the personal training pit that guy. Right. Yes,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: I never saw myself, but I got introduced at fitness
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: conferences as that and all of that stuff that was
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: really nice and good. But I realized earlier, like you know,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: by the time I was thirty three or four, I'd
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: already worked in fitness for sixteen years. You know, that's
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: a long time. And so by the time I'm thirty eight,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I've been in for two decades and I'm still not old.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I'm only thirty eight, right, Yeah, And I realized that,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I mean for me, And again this is like I
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: think some people will do a version of the same
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: job for forty years and that's kind of good for them,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: and it kind of works for them, so there's no judgment,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: just acknowledgement. But for me, I cannot. It doesn't matter
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: how much money I'm making, Like, I can't do the
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: same thing the same way all the time. I've got
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: to be doing new stuff, for different stuff, for developing
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: stuff for So I got to the point where even
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: though I was pretty good with bodies and anatomy and
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: physiology and biomechanics and all that shit and nutrition and
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: energy systems and adaptation and progressive overload and all those
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: exercise science things. I realized that I wanted to learn
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: more about people. I learned I knew enough about bodies
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: for what I needed, but I wanted to learn more
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: about the people inside the body, And so I moved
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: away from I started, you know, I got a whole
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: bunch of managers for my gyms and eventually got out
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: of them. But like I didn't even go to UNI
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: until I was thirty six for the first time. But
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I realized that understanding anatomy and fears, et cetera. Was good,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: but it was really only a small part of the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: how do I help people really change forever and be inside?
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Had out different equation, So trying to and I'm still
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: you know, you're still learning. I'm still learning. It's like,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: of all there is to know about humans and human behavior,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: I know fucking nothing, right. So that for me was
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: a real kind of moment where I went, I'm going
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: to move away from being the fitness industry boften, I'm
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: still going to do stuff, but that's not my priority
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: or focus. Yeah, and then I just I started doing
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, I did my first paid speaking gig at
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: twenty six, the same year that I opened my first gym,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and I was terrible. It was terrible, but I realized
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: that I liked it, and I thought maybe I have
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: some potential despite the fact that I had no skill,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: no awareness, no miles on the clock, fucking you know.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: But it was terrible. Like, as a product, it was
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: pretty terrible, but the moment and the experience for me
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: was not terrible. Yeah, And so from there I just
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: went ah. And even now, like I think, I think, like,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: how good a podcast because it gives me and you
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to do this and talk to you know,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: ten thousand people, wow or whatever it is. It's like, oh,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: what else is there? You know? It's I'm always you know,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I'm really curious about just evolving and doing new things.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: And Yeah, but even if I'm doing something that I
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: really like, if I do it the same way day
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: in day out, eventually I won't like it. I need
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: some kind of left turn or right turn or expansion
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: or development or I need to keep learning and growing.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: There's no anxiety around that. But I also like people
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: think I'm a workaholic. I'm not. I but I am
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: somewhat obsessed with doing shit that I like doing and
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: that I'm interested in.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, tend to have a really good skill and capacity
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: to get other people to do this shit I don't
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: want to do.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: I hear. And I was doing some work on Sunday
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: at the pool. So our daughter has a gym membership,
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: the local sort of recreation center. It's huge, and I thought, look,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: rather than drop and go and come back and on
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: a Sunday the bus is running, I'll just take my laptop.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: And I forgot to put my parking in the in
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: the car, you know, pay for parking. And there was
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: a feller beside me. Oh gosh, I'd be guessing his age,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: maybe in his maybe sixty five maybe, And I just said, oh, look,
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: can you know I've just got to run out in
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: the rain to put a parking ticket in. Can you
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: just mind my stuff? And was halfway through a yoga
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: you know, just all the stuff you don't want to
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: pack up. And I came back and we got chatting
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: and he's like, you're working on a Sunday, like is
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: that what you're doing? And I'm like yeah, he goes,
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: gee whiz, you must be.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: You know, like love what you do.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: And I was like, well, actually, I'm like you, Craig,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: like any any type like I have to constantly. I mean,
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: I want to be a really present parent, you know,
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: at sixteen and fourteen, you know, nearly seventeen and fifteen. Actually,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: like the time is so like I always wherever possible,
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: I want to prioritize that time. But also I love
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: my work. Incidentally, this fella said to me, if I
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: wasn't married, he would have asked me to a dance.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Wasn't that so cute?
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: I haven't been proposition like that in a long time.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Wow, he would have asked you to a dance?
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Isn't that lovely?
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: And I hope you said, well, if I wasn't married,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I would have gone to the dance. No, I hope
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: you didn't say that because.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what to say.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: I laughed and said that's really lovely, thank you so much, and.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Probably a better response than me.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: But in light of what you were saying before, you
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: got me thinking, because you know, they are like there
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: are a lot of us over the course of our
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: careers who have kind of taken lots of different chans
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: and changed professions, and there'll be you know, listeners now
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: sort of maybe in the middle of that, like what
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: do I do? When do I make the call? And
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: how do I let go? And I distinctly remember because
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: I started as a teacher and I left to go
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: to work for Beyond Blue because in my last year
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: of teaching, I'd experienced major depressive disorder because of my
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: diagnosed anxiety, and I was sort of coming through that.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: I thought, I really want to work in this world
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: of mental health. I don't want other people to be
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: blindsided like I was. I left Beyond Blue. I won't
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: go into the details, but yeah, that kind of contract
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: of mine that shifted into State and I didn't want
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: to take up a different contract there, so I thought,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: I'm going back to UNI.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: And because I went back to UNI.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: When I finished my PhD, I actually started writing articles
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: for sports science magazines.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Did you know I did this, Craik, Have I ever
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: told you this?
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I did not.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I realized with my PhD, I really like writing.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: I'd never known that about myself and I love sports science,
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: and I love well being and I'm still writing to
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: mental health. So I started pitching sports science articles to
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: like Australian Motorsport, Rugby League Week, inside Cricket, you know, football,
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: inside football and anyway. I started to develop this career
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: as a journalist, I suppose, and I loved it so much,
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: variety and just I loved telling the stories of the
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: science and bringing a new kind of perspective to everyone
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: who loves this particular sports so they could learn more
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: about what's happening with their athletes. And I also wrote
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: about depression, interviewed Heath Evans.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: You know, I spoke a lot.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: I wrote a lot about mental health as well, and
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: one interview completely changed the course of my life.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: And it was a real.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: Recognizable turning point where I was kind of feeling like
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: I had a foot in two feet in one camp
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: and I was going to be would I be prepared
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: to let all that go and go in a new direction.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: And that was when I interviewed the head of the
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: AFL Players Association, Dr Joe Mitchell, and we talked about
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: all of the ways that as psychologists and leaders in
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: the AFLPA, they looked after the players and that's when
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: I got introduced to the science of well being and
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: acceptance and commitment therapy, and I was just like so
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: enamored with what she shared with me, and I just thought,
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: oh goodness, I think this is the direction I want
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: to go now.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: I want to know more, I want to learn more
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: about this.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: And I remember saying to her when I started going
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: in that direction, and it meant sort of starting to
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: leave behind what I'd been doing. She said, how long
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: have you been doing it? And I said seven years?
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: Seven years kind of writing and working as a freelancer,
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: And she said that's good for any relationship, isn't it.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: It's okay to say goodbye.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: And it was a really like I'll never forget.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: And it was kind of like just that pivotal moment
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: where you go, Yep, I've been working like I was
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: being interviewed, you know. I was regularly at the AFL headquarters.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: I was makespertise was shared during the drug scandal at Essendon,
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: like I had established myself, and I was just at
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: that point I just turned my back on it and
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: couldn't be like more proud of myself for making that decision,
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: because sometimes those decisions are.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: So hard and we don't know what's coming.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: But yeah, that was kind of like one of the
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: kind of daisy chains in my history. But I fully
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: believe nothing, nothing's ever wasted, that everything you do builds
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: on what you've done, even though out of context it
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: might not make sense to people. Yes, that's that's my
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: experience anyway.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: It's funny that we're talking about this, you know, stepping
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: out of something that we're good at. We know we're
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: good at. We've got recognition, we've got acceptance, we've got security,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: we've got familiarity, you know. And then but and then
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: to step into something that you don't have any of
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: that right, and you're stepping into, for one of a
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: better term, an unnus space or new territory near new
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: unfamiliar environment or whatever. Yeah, And I just finished a
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: podcast an hour ago with Tiff and Bobby, who's a regular,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: and we're talking about this idea which is worth revisiting
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: momentarily because it's relevant to what we're talking about. Yeah,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: which is this idea that I like. It's called starting scared. Yeah,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Starting scared, Yeah, starting scared, Starting insecure, starting unprepared, starting
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: not ready, starting with all your bullshit, starting with all
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: your self doubt, starting with all your just fucking start.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Of course you're not ready. Of course you're scared. Of
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: course you've got self doubt. Of course you of course
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: you're human. Like if you wait until you're ready, or
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: if you wait until you've got no fear, or if
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: you wait until you've got no self doubt, you're going
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: to wake up in a minute, and you'll be sixty
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: and you will have been living in a holding pattern. Yeah,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: and hating your life and hating yourself because you never
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: took a risk and you know, Okay, so you start
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't work. Cool, big deal, like life. You know,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: you get embarrassed. Also, fine, you lose a few dollars, Fine,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: you know, you learn a few things, You grow, you
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: revolve like we literally you know, cannot grow, I mean
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: grow grow in comfort. We've got to get uncomfortable to
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: adapt to improve. Doesn't mean comfort's not good. I love comfort.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I love lying on bed watching Netflix, chilling out. Like
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: somebody said the other day on my thing, nothing good
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: comes from comfort. I'm like, well, that's just not true.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: But we don't need comfort all the time, and we
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: don't need discomfort all the time, it's like finding that
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: sweet spot of let's do some hard shit, let's do
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: some silly shit. And also not everything needs to be
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: logical and strategic. Sometimes we just do stuff because it's
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: a fun fucking thing to do. There doesn't need to
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: be any deep philosophical.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Meaning, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's such, it's so good
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: to revisit it. And it's really what everything comes back to.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: And if we can do that hard thing, eat the frog,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: or start scared.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Or you know, feel feel the fear and do it anyway,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: Like it only gets easier when you do that and
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: then you rest. So you take you take that because
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: we need to. We need to manage the state of
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: our nervous system. We need we can't be because when
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: when there's a threat, when when there's uncertainty, it's threatening,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: we respond to that physiologically and we need to close
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: that loop, that that stress loop that gets opened and activated.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: We need to be able to close that and recover
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: so that we can do it all again the next day.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: The other thing I think for us all to be
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: really cognizant of is that when when because it is threatening,
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: our brain does detect a threat when there's uncertainty or we're.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Out on a limb.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: We are out on a limb, and we we want
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: to be where the limb takes us. We want to
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: be where the limb takes us. We don't want to
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: kind of.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Be on it.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: But in fact, that's the beautiful part of any of
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: these experiences, is what it takes to get there. But
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: it can for some people. The anxiety that when that
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: alarm sounds, the physical symptoms that can be triggered by
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: that are so intolerable. Yes, and look that used to
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: be me.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, it used to be me.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: I've been, I've been. You know this table I see
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: it in our dining room is my office, and I
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: remember sitting at this table thinking, I want to do
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: this when I feel better. When I don't, you know,
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: when the fear goes, you know, like what you were
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: saying before. Yes, And then my brother more or less
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: said to me what you were just saying. You and
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: Tiff and Bobby were talking about that. In fact, to
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: start my career as a freelancer, I've been given the
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: number of Julian Cribb, who he was an author and
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: a writer who was connected I was connected with and
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: I had his number, and it took me months to
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: pick up the phone and ring just to say, hey,
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: a mutual friend of ours is passed on your number
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: and recommended I get in touch and my brother and
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: I was just waiting. I was just waiting to feel
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: good about it, to feel calm and confident and secure.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: And on a phone call with my brother, He's just like, well,
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: that's not going to happen, and he said some really
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: wise words that prompted me to do it. Scared, but
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: I just really want to spend a moment just for
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: because I know that somebody listening out there is going
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: to be thinking, I know all this.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: It all makes perfect sense for me in my head.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: It's logical, I get it, but I just feel so
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: overwhelmed by my symptoms. I just feel like I'm groupled
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: by it. And if you are listening and that is you,
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: please please get extra help, because there's a whole world
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: waiting for you, and sometimes we need, you know, other
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: professionals to help us. Just you know, like just start
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: to get a little bit of momentum and then we
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: can take it from there.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that was that was.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: Kind of one of the things that jumped out at
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: me when you were saying what you were saying.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: It's so funny that, and I totally agree. Sometimes we
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: just need someone who kind of gets it and gets
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: us and can hold our hand for a moment. You
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: said you were catching your thought for a minute, right,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: And as you were doing that, I wrote uncertainty. And
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: then you came out and you said, because I wanted
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: to remember, I said to you, I want to We
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: had a little moment everyone that you didn't hear, where
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: we had a little ten second break. Yeah, and I said,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I've got something I want to talk about it. But
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: that was it, and then you started It's so funny
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: because like it's interesting how in tune people are sometimes.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: But I think that whole idea of you know, like
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: starting scared. You could also call it choosing uncertainty. And
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: all of us, you know, people with anxiety, in inverted
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: commas or not, we're all attracted to predictability and certainty
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: and familiarity because you know, our brain's always looking out
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: for us and all of those things are low risk
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: because we know what's coming. And I'd rather know what's coming.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: But sometimes the key is to fucking step into you
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: know what you don't know and what you can't see coming.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're exactly right.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: And one of the things that can help, I think
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: is going well, you know, I mean it's classic anxious thinking.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: What's you know, like catastrophic thinking going to the worst case.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: But with catastrophic.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Thinking, we're actually in the moment leaving that the worst
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: has happened. Whereas if we can in a measured way
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: ask ourselves, well, what is the worst outcome here? And
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: it could be that you are applying for a new
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: role you don't get it, Well, are you worse off
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: than where you were to begin with? Absolutely not, because
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: now you've got a cracking CV and you've had a
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: bite at the cherry, you've had more interview experience, you're
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: a bit closer to that next step. And whilst it
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: can be so devastating and disappointing when we don't get
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: what we want, and we don't always, one other thing
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: that can help is to go you know what. I've
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: probably been devastated and disappointed before and I got through it.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: I'll get through it again. But we've got no hope
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: of getting a step closer to our goals, our dreams,
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: our ambitions our Maybe it's a person in your world
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: who you want to, you know, approach, might this great
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: likelihood of rejection and that's a risk. Do you want
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: to stay close to the trunk and never know? Or
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: do you want to go out on the limb and
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: you know it's I often think, not that often, but
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: occasionally think about if I go tomorrow, Am I okay
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: with that? If you know, hit by a bus? What
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: would I be okay like? And I think the answer
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: to that is yes, still obviously want to spend How
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: old am I fifty?
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: What do you reckon? I've got, Craig, maybe another.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: You've got I reckon you've got about forty years of
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: really good operating and maybe you'll slide into about one
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: hundred and two. The last twelve months, last twelve months
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: could be a bit dodgy, but it.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Really could be, couldn't it?
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: And as hard as it is, I think, is it
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Tim Ferriss who said read the obituary?
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Is you know, make it a habit of reading.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: The obituaries, because you know, like we've all lost someone,
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: We've all, you know, most of us have lost someone special,
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: and we always sort of feel like it's most of
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: the time it was too short, not enough time for them,
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: and and you know, eventually our numbers up, and I
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: just sort of just sort of for me, you know,
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: and for the people that I get to connect with
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: in my orbit, I just want people to kind of
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: feel like, you know, I'm making in roads towards the
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: things that are important to me, and I'm not you know,
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: I'm not comfortable. I'm not feeling confident necessarily, I'm not
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: sure of what's going to happen, but I'm going to try.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's you know, there's this duality of you know,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: being human. Is there the stuff we know and the
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: stuff we feel. You know, I can simultaneously no, I'm
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I'm you know, I've got some skills and some competence
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: while feeling completely incompetent, like feeling like a fucking idiot,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: but knowing because I've got data and evidence to suggest, well,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: you're not a complete idiot. You know, You've done a
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: few things that would indicate a modicum of intelligence and
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: skill and competence, but that you know, when you you know,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: for one of the ones for me, not so much anymore,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: but sometimes is standing at the side of a room
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: you do the same thing as me. But standing at
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: the side of a room, especially if it's a big room,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: especially if it's a big stage, especially if there's lots
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: of people, and where I'm a little lapel fucking microphone
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: and some blow or girl that you don't know is
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: talking about you and doing your bio and telling everybody
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: how fucking incredible you're going to be, And I'm like, ah,
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: keep that down, will you. You know, let's set the
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: bar low, let's underpromise, let's over deliver, not the other
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: way around. Right and then and then, even though I've
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: done that literally thousands of times, now it's part of
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: me like, yeah, this is the day where you're going
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: to come crashing down and they'll all figure out that
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: you're not funny and clever, you're actually shit. And that's today.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: So enjoy that all the best.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: You should rewrite that introduction, just like lower the bar.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that'll help.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Here's Craig Harper could be shit, sometimes funny, often not.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Thinks he's clever not so much, but look he'll have
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: a go. I can't promise anything, and now here he is.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: Yay.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Poor people are like fuck, really, what are we budgeting.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: But it is funny where when you do a certain thing,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: it's like people think I'm an extrovert because I can
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: do this, and I'm not really a hard introvert. But
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: I'm definitely not an ex revert. Like I don't if
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: I'm out in a group or wherever. The last thing
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I want is to be the center of attention. Just
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: to be the center of attention, I have zero desire.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: I would much rather be in the background, like happily
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: in the background. Yeah, the need to get in front
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: of a group because I like being in front of
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: a group for the sake of it. No, I haven't
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: none of that at all. Yeah, you know so, but
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: it's yeah, so there's still that that. Yeah, you can
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: simultaneously have certain skills and capacity to do things in
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: front of a group or an audience or to host
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: a podcast. But also you know that it depending on
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: the situation. There are times when I'm not shy, but
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: I'm quite reserved. Like I'm like, no, really good things.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I get often asked at social things or at like
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: sometimes an event if I'd like to say something, and
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: I go no, definitely, I really don't. Thank you. It's like, oh, yeah,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: but you're you're I go, nah, I'm good, thank you.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Like at people's birthdays, big birthdays and shit, do you
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: want to say something? I go, nice, I don't, you know,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: if it's my best mate and he wants me to, maybe,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: but other than that, no, I have no desire to
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: just get up there at all.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: So yeah, you know, I get that. When Annie Jenny,
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: when Uneie Jenny died in October and we had her
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: celebration of life, then obviously well, I mean, maybe it's
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: not obvious, but at this particular event, which was not
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: a funeral, it was, you know, a gathering of people
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: tan coffee and afternoon tea and some people speaking about her,
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: and then there was kind of like open mic, and
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: I had I had thought about all the things that
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: I would want to say, but then I realized I
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: actually have said everything to her that I wanted to say,
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: because we were bedside for twelve days in the ICU
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: and she was conscious for a lot of it, and
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: I sort of had decided I'm not going to say anything,
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: which I think when I sort of told a few
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: family members, you know, I've decided not to say anything,
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: I sort of felt like I didn't feel the need
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: to do that. So I planned that. But then on
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: the day, after watching all those the photos and all
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: the memories and feeling so moved, I was compelled to.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's interesting, isn't it. Maybe the assumptions that
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: if you you know, I mean, it's they're fair assumptions,
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: aren't they. You've daily podcast and professional speaker, and so
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: surely you've got something you want to add.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I often in a room, I'll feel like I'm
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: the least interesting person. And I'm not saying that. I'm
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: not fishing like it depends. You know. It's funny. It's
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: all context dependent, isn't it. It's like I say this, often,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: depending on what room you're in, it could be the
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: smartest or the dumbest. You could be, the most talented
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: or the least. You can be, the most skilled or
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: the least you could be. You know, It's like, I'm
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: often in rooms with other people where I'm the least
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: interesting person in the room. I just want to listen
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: to you. I just want to listen to the others.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: You know what, I think the rooms to be in,
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: aren't they That's the best.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: I want to I always say to people, I used
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: to say this, and it kind of expanded from this.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: But you know, when I was really young and I
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: was training people or teaching people, I'd say, and this
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: is purely about you know, training and sport, I'd say,
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: train with people better than you like whatever you do.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: If you're a tennis player, play with someone better than you.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: If you're a if you're a want to be bodybuild
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: or a power left or just a gym junkie, train
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: with people that are better than you, better genetics than you,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: stronger than you like. Do that, you know, have debates
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: with people that are smarter than you, like whatever, you know.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, if you're the best in your group,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: then go get in another group.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: Yes, the ego can stand in the way sometimes, can't
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: it This willingness to sort of say, hey, I don't
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: I don't know, help me. You know, I remember saying
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: to Pete, We've we've got a couple of acres.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: And you know, righte on Moro and a handma and.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: Lots of you know, busney bits and stuff like that,
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: you know, the stuff that you sort of need. And
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: you know, originally, when something would break down, neither of
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: us had the skills to fix it, whereas you know,
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: we know people who can go, oh yeah, I'm just
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: out fixing the mara and would have I don't know
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: why I'd.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Made them sound like an old fellah, I'm pracked from
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: the maa.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: But you know the skills to do it, and and
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: you sort of get a bit down yourself and you realize,
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: I've never learned. I never learned. I never was interested
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: to learn. If I wanted to learn how to fix
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: them more, I'm sure I could. Peter could as well.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: He's actually taught himself a lot. There's a lot that
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: he can do now. But when we were in our
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: early twenties and just starting off no clue, and I
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: think we can be really hard on ourselves sometimes and
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: we're like, well, I don't know, I'm not one of
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: those people. I don't know how to do that kind
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: of stuff. And it's like, well, you never learned. It's
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: as simple as that, And if you wanted to, you could, Yeah, yeah,
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: just go.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: To a different room. Hey, Joe, always awesome your butte.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: And you know, if I hear about you whisking away
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: with a sixty five year old man from the swimming pool,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: I won't be surprised, poor Pete. Tell people how they
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: can connect with you, please and thank you.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: Ohwa's love chatting with you.
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: Craig. Yes, well, Hello Anxiety is my podcast, so come
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: on over and have a listen. And yes, also Instagram
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: a LinkedIn, and yeah, have a website as well, So yeah,
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: reach out, connect, say hello, and yeah look forward to
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: connecting back.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: You're the best. Well hello anxiety, best known for podcast
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: in the world. Well, hello Anxiety, see you next time.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Thanks her, see you next time.
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: Bye.