Latest / PCMA Convene Podcast / Interview: From Chaos to Calm: Pauline Nguyen on Self‑Leadership in Times of Change
Transcript
- Convene Podcast Transcript Convene Interview, ep. 21 *Note: the transcript is AI generated, excuse typos and inaccuracies Magdalina Atanassova: This is the Convene Podcast. Today we’re exploring what it means to lead with calm, clarity, and inner strength — especially when the world feels uncertain. My guest is Convening APAC keynote speaker Pauline Nguyen: best selling author, award winning entrepreneur, and owner of Red Lantern, the most awarded Vietnamese restaurant in the world. Having escaped Vietnam by boat and survived a refugee camp, Pauline has transformed profound adversity into a life devoted to self mastery, conscious leadership, and helping others rewrite their stories. In this conversation, we talk about tuning into the inner and external cues that shape our decisions, why emotional mastery is a leader’s most powerful advantage, and how presence and courage influence teams far more than strategy alone. We start now. Hi, Pauline, and welcome to the Convene Podcast. Pauline Nguyen: Thank you for having me. Thanks so much. I look forward to today's conversation with you. Magdalina Atanassova: Me too. And I want to begin with this. You often describe yourself as a spiritual entrepreneur. So for listeners who may be new to your work, how do you define that and how does it look like in practice day to day? Pauline Nguyen: Okay, so let us first define what it is to be spiritual. And so to be spiritual means that we source our life and our resources from the divine. What does it mean to be divine? The term divine means pertaining to God. Now, this does not mean religion. Spirituality has nothing to do with religion. It is religion that needs spirituality. So God is giving od the grand organized design, which to me is the universe, the intelligent expression of the synthesis and the synchronicities of all that is so understanding that we are a bigger part of the whole. So divine means to shine. And we're all on this earth to do, to know what we do really well and to amplify that so that we shine and so that as much as possible, we cultivate. And we express this through our thoughts, our words, our actions, the qualities of our relationships, our friendliness or the love and compassion towards others. And so that's what it means to be spiritual. We incorporate our hearts, our minds, our soul, our spirit, and we take all of that and apply it to the work that we do, to our businesses, to our relationships. So to be spiritual is to live your life in spirit and inspired and bringing that inspiration into our work. The most fulfilled people I've ever met are the ones who live their lives in spirit and inspired. And so when we are spiritual, we are opening our minds and our hearts to this greater wisdom, to this greater universal truth. And there's a whole lot of appreciation and gratitude and seeing things from a higher level of mind. And so people think that spirituality is this thing that you need, it's so far out of reach. But we need to take spirituality out of the clouds and put it back into our bodies where it belongs. And so spirituality is a very natural state of being. And so at its core, the spiritual entrepreneur, the way of the spiritual entrepreneur is this deep process, this deep journey of self realization, of self actualization, and then ultimately self transcendence, which in and of itself is a deeply spiritual process, is it not? And so it's a massive interrogation, self inquiry, self curiosity, getting really aware of yourself and where you're at. And so it's not about being in some higher realm. It's about the true expression of you, the unice of you, the universe of you. And so what then is an entrepreneur? An entrepreneur is someone who makes the invisible visible. And we are the eternal warriors of the world, as in W A R R I O R s, not, not W O double R Y I E R S. Right. And so we, we are of the greatest influence. And the. We have not only the resources, but the resourcefulness to make things happen. And so when you combine the two, the spirituality behind the entrepreneurship, and you combine the two, that's when magic happens. And that's what it means to be a spiritual entrepreneur. And so there is depth, there is meaning to everything that we do. And of course, there's a whole lot of play. That's the way of the spiritual entrepreneur. Magdalina Atanassova: I love it. You just made it seem so close to every one of us. Right. Because I think the first intention is to go exactly like you say out of you when you hear spiritual. I love how you brought it back to the being, to us, to playfulness, to creation. So when everything feels very uncertain, which is pretty much the times we live now, what's the first inner question you ask yourself as a leader? Pauline Nguyen: Well, it's the first to understand that the only certainty in this world is uncertainty. Yes. And so what do leaders do? If you're leading, what do leaders do? Leaders go first. If you are a leader, not a manager, a leader, you are a visionary, what do visionaries do? They see things different, differently. What do leaders do? They go first. What do visionaries do? They see things differently. And so when everything feels uncertain, we have to decide that we must lead by example. And so as a leader, it is first to understand that as a leader, we are always being watched. And so we have to lead by example, through self mastery, through self leadership, which is why as a leader, you have to do the inner work consistently, do the inner Work so that you can upgrade your operating system, so that you can show up with dignity, grace, poise, calm, courage, fearlessness, unshakability. You have to do the inner work to consistently build your internal empire, to fortify your inner core. This is what self mastery and self leadership is all about. Because when the **** hits the fan, not only is the leader responsible, we have to be response able. And so the leader, as a leader, it's our job to remain cool and calm under pressure. That's our job, yes, as a leader, to not freak out or play victim or complain about our perceived problems. So as a leader, in times of uncertainty or chaos, when the **** hits a fan, it's our response ability to extract as much positive value and then for ourselves and our team and the organization, extract as much value and then make as many empowering meanings as possible from any challenge that comes our way. And so how do we do that? We do that by keeping strong the gatekeepers of our hearts and our minds. This is what sovereignty and agency is all about. Because it is our internal ecology that will directly reflect and directly project up on our external kingdom, our lives, our businesses, our team members, our families. And so I, I'm of the belief that people don't have business problems, they have personal problems that reflect in their business. And so we always work first on the leader because the reality is your people will always follow the most calm and composed leader, not the one who freaks out and goes on to stress and panic. And so as a leader, it is our responsibility to use every obstacle, to use every challenge as a platform to master ourselves a little bit more. And then to demonstrate and prove to our people why we hold the position of leadership that we do. And so in times of certainty, in times of crisis, in times of change, because we have agency and self mastery and sovereignty, we become self leaders. We are in times of crisis and change, we are not only leaders of solutions, but also leaders of sanity. Because calm is contagious and so is fear. And as leaders, we're always being watched. And so the question a leader should always ask themselves is, how do I best lead? By example. Magdalina Atanassova: I hope our audience hears this, because especially when you're in the middle of an event and something goes wrong, and there are always things that go wrong, remaining calm is really the best resource you have. Pauline Nguyen: Yeah, you're always being watched. You're always being watched. Yeah. Magdalina Atanassova: And you talk about tuning into inner and external cues to guide decision making. So what are some of those signals that leaders tend to ignore sometimes? And what should they pay more attention to. Pauline Nguyen: So in my keynotes, I speak a lot to emotional mastery. That's what the spirituality that I teach, the conscious leader that I teach. What does it mean to be a conscious leader? Well, first, what does it mean to be unconscious? It means to be asleep. Yes. Like if you've knocked over the head, you've lost consciousness, you're not awake, you're not aware. And so to be a conscious leader is to be awake and aware. We're always. You're always aware, but how aware are you that you're actually aware? Right. We always have awareness. But a conscious leader has emotional mastery. So first of all, to be spiritual is to be in spirit and inspired. In order to remain in spirit and inspired, you have to have emotional mastery. I think it's important now to break it down because it needs to be direct experience. It needs to be directly lived. Right. Magdalina Atanassova: This. Pauline Nguyen: So let's make some distinctions. A lot of people speak to emotional intelligence, but let me give the distinctions. Emotional intelligence is not emotional mastery. So what are the steps to emotional mastery? So, first step is to become emotionally literate. You have to expand your emotional vocabulary. I do a whole lot of coaching teaching as well. Most people have a handful of emotions and feelings. That's all they know. And so the more emotional literacy we have, therefore, the more accurately we can describe the current state, our current emotions or whatever situation, whatever stressful predicament we find ourselves in. And understanding that state precedes your strategy. Your state is how you feel. How do you explain? How do you identify what state you're in? That's the first step. What am I feeling? Frustration, anger, resentment. Am I tired? Am I exhausted? Am I feeling remorse? Am I exasperated? Am I feeling tingly? Am I feeling disturbed, bored, wired? So when we can name the emotion and the feeling and. And we can identify it, then it has less of a hold over us. So that's the first part, the emotional literacy. And then after the emotional literacy, now comes the emotional intelligence, or, you know, the emotion. Let's go back to a bit. The emotional literacy also means that you have words for the positive. Right? Identifying how you currently feel so that it has less of a hold on you versus I don't know how I'm feeling, you know? And then with the emotional literacy, you can then ask, but then what do I need to do to feel the way I want to feel? This is the emotional maturity part. But first of all, do you have the literacy to express how you want to feel? I want to feel abundant. I Want to feel passionate. I want to feel grateful. I want to feel brave, courageous, influential, ecstatic. So that's what emotional literacy does. Emotional literacy gives you more options. It gives you more options on how you want to feel. And then that's the first step, emotional literacy. And so the next step is having emotional intelligence. Now, emotional intelligence is understanding the wisdom of the emotion. Are we stopping to be intelligent enough to understand the wisdom of the emotion? And so there's a whole lot of emotions. Let's just talk about the top five. Fear, joy, sadness, anger, and sexual feelings. Those are the top five primal emotions. And so emotional intelligence says, okay, I'm feeling fear at the moment. What is the wisdom of fear? And you can only understand the wisdom of it if you are in reflection versus rumination. If you are still in. If you've allocated time to get curious. If you're breathing into your diaphragm so you're activating calm courage instead. The wisdom of fear. Fear is a sign that your mind is trying to protect you. Yes. But not everything unfamiliar is dangerous. And so we learn to tell the difference between what's a real threat and what's simply a discomfort that will ultimately lead to our growth. And so when we understand the wisdom of fear, can we then then ask, will I use this fear as a tailwind or a headwind? What's the wisdom of joy? That something needs to be celebrated. Even the small wins. When you stop and celebrate something, even the small wins. What you're doing is you're subconsciously going to want to do more of that which you are currently celebrating. That's the wisdom of joy. Something needs to be celebrated. What's the wisdom of sadness? That there's something that needs to end. Sadness is your mind slowing down to catch up with what's actually happening. So can you let yourself feel sadness? It's not weakness. It's simply processing. That's the intelligence to stop. And so the wisdom of anger. Anger is energy that has a purpose. It builds when something challenges your values or disrespects your boundaries or disrupts your sense of justice. Anger tells you. The wisdom of anger tells you my boundaries have been crossed. It's time now to hold myself to account of what's going on instead of letting it take over. And so when we understand the wisdom of anger, we can turn to change. And what is the wisdom of sexual feelings in the workplace? In. In leadership? When you have sexual feelings, it's not a sign that you need a booty call. The wisdom of sexual feelings. Sexual Feelings is creative energy that something needs to be created, something needs to be brought to life. And of course there's a gazillion other emotions that we can understand the wisdom of, but those are the five primary emotions. Emotional intelligence is stopping to understand the wisdom of it. And now where emotional intelligence becomes emotional maturity is when you have consistently have the behavioral practices of the conscious leader. Conscious leader. The conscious leader is conscious. They show up with dignity, grace, poise. They're not hijacked by their emotions. They have absolute self sovereignty. What is self sovereignty? It's the idea that there is no power or authority outside of you, required to live your own independent life. You take full responsibility for your actions. And so this is slightly different to having agency. Agency is then becoming proactive and self directed and very enterprising in, in, in your role. And so agency is to just get it done. Sovereignty is the emotional mastery piece. So back to emotional maturity. Emotional maturity is the new paradigm of leadership, which is conscious leadership. The conscious leader says, I commit to feeling my feelings all the way through to completion. When my emotions come, I locate it in my body. And then I move, I breathe, I vocalize so that they release all the way through. Do you know how long it takes to process an emotion? How long scientifically proven, if emotion is energy in motion, Energy in motion. Take a guess how long it takes to process an emotion. Magdalina Atanassova: I'd say a minute, close. Pauline Nguyen: 90 seconds. That's how long it takes to process an emotion. But how many of us don't have the emotional literacy, the emotional intelligence and the emotional maturity to have it processed? And instead we hold on to the stories and hold onto the emotion for days, weeks, months, years, decades, sometimes even lifetimes. Hey, how many of us, I see it all the time. People fighting to hold onto their stories for dear life. And then they get addicted to the emotion. And so the conscious leader says, I commit to feeling my feelings all the way through to completion. Otherwise how are you going to show up as sovereign and skillful and intelligent as possible for your people? The emotions come, I locate it in my body and then I move, I breathe, I vocalize so that I can release them all the way through. And then I have the capacity to do what needs to be done. The old paradigm of leadership, unconscious leadership says, I commit to resisting, judging, apologizing for my feelings. I commit to repressing, avoiding, withholding them. And so you can have all the strategy in the world. But if you're holding onto a ****** state, fighting to hold onto your problems with a story, Then no amount of strategy is going to help you. And so we cultivate the practice of all those steps combined. Emotional literacy, followed by emotional intelligence, understanding the wisdom of the emotion and the emotional maturity. Being able to locate it in your body, doing what you need to do to process it. When you understand all those practices and can do it in an instant, that becomes emotional mastery. And so that's what it means to be able to tune into your inner and external cues to guide your decision making. Magdalina Atanassova: Can you give us an example? How do you personally navigate when you know there's tension? Like a real example from your day to day? Pauline Nguyen: How would it look like from my data? Well, let's talk about working in the restaurant, right? We are in the hospitality business. It is our job to be hospitable. They say that to be running a very, very busy restaurant with so many tables all on degustation menus is like working in an air control tower. There are so many cogs and there's just so much stuff, not to mention all the knives and the heat and the discomfort and, and the pressure. There's so much pressure. And likewise, if you're a professional waiter on the floor, it's needing anticipating. I know that a whole lot of event managers, all type A personalities. That's what, that's what fuels us, right? But then what is fueling you? What, what emotion is fueling you? And so, so many times when there's high, high pressure, we are always being watched. The first thing I go to is a breath strategy. How are you breathing? Most people are breathing into their chest. That's where their stress receptors are. Can you cultivate the practice of consistently belly breathing? That's where your calm receptors are. If you practice speaking slowly, you have more agency over yourself, more sovereignty over yourself. You're going to stress other people less. They think you're calm. And so because you're showing calmness, because you're practiced, and then your staff remain calm as well. And so in amongst all the chaos and all the confusion, my sovereignty comes first. If I can feel. Oh, what's that, Pauline? It's bubbling up. It's bubbling up in that in times of stress, okay, I have the capacity to compartmentalize that. I will look at the situation later, but I know that I need to breathe and have this process through my body, move through my body, otherwise I won't be able to do what needs to be done. That's the self mastery piece. I'm not shutting my eyes and ears to the vicissitudes of life. Or pretending that there's no reality, that that's not part of reality. The reality is it's stressful situation **** has hit the fan. But how am I going to show up? Magdalina Atanassova: I think we need to stop also here for a second. And what you said about practice, you're practiced. It's something we all can learn, but it needs practice. It doesn't just happen. And I feel sometimes people just assume people are like that. And they say this person is just like that. Oftentimes this person has just practiced being there, connected to their breath, like you said, and just being very conscious in how they respond in a situation. So it's something everyone can learn. So don't despair. Pauline Nguyen: That's the mastery piece. Magdalina Atanassova: Yeah. Pauline Nguyen: Someone doesn't show up as a professional tennis player just because they're put in the practice. You're not a champion swimmer unless you're put in the practice. That's why it's called self mastery, because you've mastered it. Why? Because it's a cultivation of a practice. But here's the thing, though. Most people don't want to do the work. You have to put in the work, otherwise you don't get the pay. Magdalina Atanassova: Yeah. And I think the Olympics just wrapped up. And many times you hear that from professional athletes who win big prizes and medals. It's not those that are most talented that win, it's those that put the most practice. Right. It comes in all facets of life. Pauline Nguyen: Little while ago, I gave a big keynote in Dubai. I spoke in front of 4,000 people. I made the mistake of checking my phone before I went on stage. I was communicating with some people in another country on other business. And I made the mistake of checking my phone. And I got news that one of my friends had passed away. But it is my duty because I'm practiced. I have the capacity to understand what needs to be done. I will process it. I will deal with it later. But I know that I'm able to process the wisdom of my sadness. And I got on stage and delivered a rocking keynote because that's my duty, but also I am practiced. And that's what capacity is. Capacity is the maximum amount someone or something can hold without crumbling. That's the mastery piece. Magdalina Atanassova: It's beautiful. If you thought of an event the way you think of your restaurant, the Red Lantern, as an energetic and emotional experience, not just a product, what questions would you want event organizers to ask themselves before they design or host anything? Pauline Nguyen: So I've created or curated and managed so many events in my lifetime as well, at the restaurant. And then of course, we take Red Lantern to other places and we create those events as well as being a part of a whole lot of events. And so from my lens, one of the first questions I would always ask is how do I want them to feel? Even as a keynote speaker, that's an important question. I ask my clients in briefing, in the briefing, how do you want your audience to feel? Not only after my keynote, but overall experience. And then how do you want to feel, dear client, what do you want them to walk away with? What do you want? What would you like to walk away with? And so even like writing a book, it's not about me, it's about the customer, it's about the audience, it's about the reader first. So those are some of the questions. What do I want them to feel? And then when I'm organizing the events, I always look at the human factor and all their senses. I'm sensorial. That's what happens when you go to a restaurant. You want to eat, you want to experience the vibe, you want to feel good. You're going there with your friends and your family. And so I think this is also very helpful when you're organizing events. How am I going to tantalize their senses and how am I going to tantalize them mentally? Is there intellectual stimulation? Is there emotional influence with the speakers, with the mc? What about their physical comfort? Is it too hot? Is it too cold? Are the seats too uncomfortable? What does the place smell like? One of the unfortunate things to me is I'm a Clairent, I'm very sensitive to smells. And especially in the last 10 years or so, most of the hotel foyers and event spaces, they pump out this terrible neurotoxic smell, this ubiquitous smell that you can smell everywhere. And it's like an air freshener. It actually gives me a headache. And. And I know that I'm not the only one. It's so piercing. It's the same smell you smell when you jump into Ubers and they've got that dangly air freshener thing. So the physical comfort is really important. And so what's the sound system like? What's the quiet music in the background like? And then of course, taste. Taste is so important. What's the point of having an amazing keynote speaker when you've got ****** food, terrible coffee, cheap things that I need to ingest, that's just all sugar. So I always bring my own food. I always bring just fresh cut vegetables, chopped up vegetables. It's actually not Hard people. Why are you so organized? I'm like, it's actually not hard. You just pull out the vegetables, give them a bit of wash, chop them up and put them in a box. Right. And so what's the warm welcome like from the staff? What's the greeting like? What's the goodbye like? What's the look and feel of your pens, of the paper, of the book? What's your brand story? As the event organizer, are you best representing the brand of the organization or the. Or the event that's holding it? And so to understand also that for us, Red Lantern, the most awarded Vietnamese restaurant in the world, we were 25 years in service. The customer experience starts well before they even enter our restaurant doors. What's the website like? What's your social media? What do you make them feel? How are your staff answering the phone? Is the booking experience super easy or is it just so difficult? And so the customer experience starts well before they enter our restaurant doors, and the customer experience continues well after they've left our restaurant doors. What's the follow up? What's the continued relationship? Are you delivering on your brand promise? Are you delivering on your brand bet? So those are some of the questions that, that I have front of mind when I'm organizing an event. Magdalina Atanassova: I think we need to stop as event planners to have people bring their own food at events. I hope there are more events out there that satisfy. Pauline Nguyen: It's not hard, just healthy stuff that is fresh and flavorsome. Magdalina Atanassova: Exactly. Don't feed the sugar monster, just feed the brain and the feel good feeling. Right. I was wondering, because when you describe restaurant feeling, I feel restaurants do much better job into balancing how a person would feel on the table while dining. But do you find events overstimulating? Is there anything in. Like you said, there's a smell in the, in the lobby in some hotels. But are events becoming lately so overstimulating to people? Pauline Nguyen: I can't answer for other people. For me, the answer is no, apart from smell and terrible food. But I can't answer for other people. But every event is different as well, right? Every culture is different. Personally, for me, I don't find events overstimulating. Sometimes it's more dull than overstimulating. Magdalina Atanassova: Okay, that's interesting. That's a good point. What was one belief you had to unlearn to become the leader you are today? Pauline Nguyen: What's one belief that I had to unlearn? You know, when I was a more amateur human being and I came into the leadership space, we're talking 25, 30 years ago, it was very mind centric. Mindset, mindset, mindset, mindset, mindset. And so I was a very unconscious leader. I was in my head worrying about what people think, worrying about am I doing it properly? And I think that's a very pertinent thought to have. You don't want to have people think that it's a terrible event or you're a terrible leader. But it's not to be so mind centric, our minds play tricks on us. I believe that I can validate and believe my emotions, but I don't believe my thoughts. The new leader is the heart led leader. Our hearts will be the barometer for our future. And when I say heart, I don't mean love and light and softly, softly. The French word for heart is le coeur. Courage. Courage. To be the courageous leader, the calm, courage leader, compassionate leader, the one that can do empathy and compassion, self compassion. And so that was one belief that I had when I first was starting my leadership journey that everything was of the mind. I know better now. It must be mindset, yes, that's important. But also heartset. How much do you love? How easily will you forgive? How kind will you be? How flexible, flexible will you be? And then of course, health set. Without your health, there can be no wealth. Put healthy food on the buffet. Do you practice stillness? Are you kind to your body? Do you do movement? Do you do rest? Rest is a weapon. And then of course, the most important of all, soul set of the spirit. What do I need to do to feel the way I want to feel so that I remain in spirit and inspired? So it's not just mindset, it's mindset. Heart set, health set, soul set. All areas must be encompassed. No area can be ignored. And so to be so mind centric is why so many people suffer. Stay in your head, you're dead. Magdalina Atanassova: If you could speak directly to the event organizer who is listening, probably on their commute, feeling very exhausted, under pressure. What is the one message you most want them to take away from how they lead themselves and others into times of change? Pauline Nguyen: Well then to be asking, hey, why am I exhausted? Why am I under pressure? Of course it comes part and parcel with being in a job and being in business. But there's extremes, right? When you have the capacity, which is the maximum amount that somebody or something can hold without crumbling, and then you realize, this is what I need to put up with in order to do what I need to do, to fill my job, to do my job. But is it so extreme that it's burnout. Is it so extreme that you're actually getting dis eased and diseased? And so that's the distinction. Is it part and parcel par for the course of your job? Or has it become so extreme that you're making yourself sick? And so one thing I teach my students and my clients is to understand that rest is a weapon. Rest is not just a nice to have, a should have, could have. It is a weapon. Can you integrate times of rest without the guilt? When we rest, when we practice stillness, when we practice breath work, it's not so that we call upon those things in the moment. It's so that when we need our agency and our sovereignty, it's always there. It's always there. And that comes with practice. And so I like to also teach that self mastery is about becoming the alchemist. It's a very scientific term. We are in the process of becoming the alchemists of our lives. How much alchemy do you practice and have influence over yourself? And so with alchemy, we become co creators instead of victims. So what is alchemy? Alchemy is changing the frequency of your thought, which alters the harmonics of matter. And then we apply the elements of love to create the desired result. That's alchemy. And so what chemicals do I want surging through my body? That's the alchemical question, right? To become the alchemist, what chemicals do I want to surge through my body in times of exhaustion, in times of feeling under pressure? Because chemicals are also contagious. Whatever you feel alchemically, you will influence your staff, you will influence your audience, you will influence your clients. And so changing the chemicals that surge through your body so that you're not hijacked by the chemicals you don't want. And so alchemists, they don't reflect unconsciousness, they absorb it, and then they transform it. So questions are, what do I need to do to feel the way I want to feel? What chemicals do I need more of? Serotonin, dopamine, oxytocin, norepinephrine. And so when we can understand this journey, we have more agency and sovereignty over ourselves versus living it by default. Because you cannot change your personal reality unless you change your personality. And so to understand this journey is to understand that personal development cannot happen unless personal disruption happens first. In those moments, can you personally disrupt yourself, asking yourself, what chemicals do I need right now? And doing all the things you do, that's a whole other discourse on how to activate what foods do you need to eat to activate serotonin. What actions do you need to do to activate dopamine? Who do you need to hug and hold and touch to activate oxytocin? What do you need? All those are you doing norepinephrine as a stress, a de stress or a eustress? And so the side effects of activating these chemicals, they change your biology and therefore change how you feel. They shift your state so that you can better execute the strategy. And so the alchemist does not wait for their healing to feel grateful. The alchemist knows that it is their gratitude that is creating the healing. The alchemist is not waiting for their success to feel empowered. The alchemist knows that their feeling empowered walks them further towards their success. So it's very much about will you live it deliberately by design or will you leave it by default? That's what it means to become the alchemist. Magdalina Atanassova: Pauline, where can listeners go to learn more about your work, your books, or to continue the conversation with you? What's next for you also? Pauline Nguyen: Oh, I've got lots of what's next, but let me tell you how you can communicate with me. I am on Instagram, Pauline N Speaks. I am on LinkedIn. I'm on TikTok. But you'll find all the different things that I do. My programs, my keynote speakership, my coaching on my website, pauline-win.com feel free to connect with me there and I'll put Magdalina Atanassova: the link in the show notes so people can quickly get in there. And what's next? You want to share? Pauline Nguyen: Oh, what's next? Okay. I'm writing a new book. It's the Year of the Fire Horse. It's time for precise, bold action. I am opening the gates to my next intake for my transformational program called Numinous in Transformational Growth Strategies for the Spiritual Entrepreneur. I'm opening keynote speaker at PCMA in Singapore. I'm really looking forward to that. And I'm also planning my next retreat for my clients, students, followers, and it's going to be in Vietnam in November. While I'm already in Asia, in Singapore for the PCMA conference, I'm also going to be doing reconnaissance with venues and eateries and all that. So it's going to be fun. My daughter turned 21 and so that little Vietnam trip will be her birthday, so we can spend that time together. Magdalina Atanassova: Oh, that's beautiful. Pauline, before I thank you, was there anything that we didn't mention? We definitely should. Before we wrap up, Pauline Nguyen: I'd love to encourage everyone that we are here on this earth, in this existence, to do three things. One, to evolve, to consistently do the inner work so that we can grow and become the best versions of ourselves, the best leaders we can be. You know, the credo at Red Lantern was to uplift the human spirit through the alchemy of flavor, hospitality, and heart. I don't know any other restaurant that has that credo. And so the first is to evolve. The second is to push our humanity forward. What are we doing in our lives to contribute to our species, to our humanity? Are we opening our hearts to feel such gratitude for this human existence? And the third part, which everyone forgets, is to do it with joy, to evolve, to push humanity forward, and to do it with joy. And so my encouragement would be, don't forget the joy part. Magdalina Atanassova: Yes, of course. I think sometimes we say don't forget to have fun, but I think it's much more important to have joy, not fun. Pauline Nguyen: Yeah, Joy. Fun oftentimes is a false excitement. Joy is very grounding. Joy is being able to almost cry at the beautiful blooming of a flower or how gorgeous it is to feel the wind caressing your cheeks. Joy is looking at my very old French bulldog, Archie and saying, geez, you're handsome, but geez, you need braces. That's Joy. That's Joy. Magdalina Atanassova: Thank you so much for your time and energy and wisdom that you brought to this episode. And I hope people really hear you. Not listen to the conversation, but really, really hear your message. Pauline Nguyen: So thank you so much, Magdalena. The Joy was mine. Magdalina Atanassova: Thank you. Remember to subscribe to the Convene Podcast on your favorite listening platform to stay updated with our latest episodes. For further industry insights from the Convene team, head over to PCMA.org/convene. My name is Maggie. Stay inspired. Keep inspiring. And until next time.