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Self-Employed Financial Advisers Who've Bought 5 Advice Firms | Arrowe Financial · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: And today on the Financial Planner Life podcast, we welcome husband and wife Mike and Jane Saunders.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: Their company's called Aero Financial, and they are part of the open work partnership.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: The fittest guys in the world, I'm gonna say.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing's gonna happen to me, I'm so fit.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And two months later, he went out for a run and was hit from behind by a car and spent 77 days in hospital on the life support machine, and what I'd set up paid out.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: We had three kids mind, you know, we had mortgage on the house, all the rest of it, so it's definite risk.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I said, no, we we've got enough faith in us, let's do it.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how it started.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: Today we go really into detail about acquiring businesses.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: They've done five of this year, and guess what?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: They're not slowing down, and today they're gonna tell you why.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: So, Michael, Jane, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Live podcast to share your career within financial planning.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's a um a special partnership episode.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: We have um a great relationship now with open work.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: What a fantastic network.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: And you are coming on to share your journey, really, and just to talk about your own personal experience, but also what it's like to be in that ecosystem of the open work partnership.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: Cool.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: All right, but welcome.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: First off, husband and wife.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Indeed.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, still.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: Still.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna ask you then, how long have you been running a business?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh 28 years.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Together?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: 26 years together.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: So there we go.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: See, my wife lasted about, I think it was just under a year until she wanted to kill me.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then she left.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, we're still in a relationship, though.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's a good thing.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: We are still in a relationship, but yeah, she couldn't couldn't stand working for me.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: And to be honest with you, and I hope she doesn't listen to this.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't stand working with her.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: She helps out now.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: She helps out mainly with the branding and marketing stuff, which is more Hakella fish.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, lovely stuff.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, great stuff.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: So, what's the secret to your success then as a couple?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think really just um being together, we've actually encouraged each other going forward um since literally from day one.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's been a bit like ships in the night, to be honest, Sam.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes when Jane's being on our appointments, I'm looking after the kids, and vice versa.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that has helped, to be honest, being ships in the night.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that was how it first started, anyway.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then we've just grown together, and yeah, everyone seems to enjoy working with us.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's what they tell us anyway.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um we sort of spark off each other, don't we?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um ideas and um silly things as well.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's it's not just all dead serious, it's it's silly things about sort of challenge you to do something or whatever.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um we sort of just spark off each other.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: We've got an enthusiasm of yeah, um and we are quite competitive.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's coming gonna come across during the next hour or so.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, tell us now then.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: Why are you say competitive then?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: Where's this come from?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think the way it was brought up, I think where it came from, you know, north end of Liverpool.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I genuinely think I was I was I wanted to succeed everything I did.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be better than I was the day before.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that for me definitely has made me competitive in in pretty much everything I do, uh, without exception.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: Jane, what about yourself then?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've got an elder brother.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up with all boys in the street, so I had to prove my worth on everything.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I've always wanted to sort of be the best.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just did.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: Do you do you bring that into your work?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, as a leadership, a couple you know who are leading a business, do you sort of instill a bit of competitiveness in the people that work for you?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's funny, we were discussing this on the train down here, and one of the factors that really stands out with our business is the people that work with us, the majority of the people that work with us, they do have that competitive edge and they do want to do things that pushes them outside of their comfort zone, which we're very keen on because we never want to be comfortable in that sense, we're always trying to achieve something or other.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that that's definitely come across with some of the guys in the business that do you know marathons, half marathons, stuff like that.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some have played at really high levels of rugby, now taking up golf instead.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we we have seen it as a constant thread through the business.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that yeah, there is a competitive edge.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: Do you both get stuck into fitness yourselves then?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Jane, what do you get to?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um at the moment, um, I'm into high rocks and deadly dozen.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um basically it's sort of fitness stations and with running in between.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: So in in high rocks it's about 8k of running and you've got eight stations.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and each of those stations you've got to sort of train for because if you don't train um well you and also you can't just sort of go into it like full steam ahead because you'll sort of run out of steam at station two.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, it's it's it's sort of a fine line of of being able to train for everything and also sort of just keep keep enough in reserve to get through everything else.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: So how do you find that helps you in your life and in work?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's about find finding the balances of things.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can't put all your eggs in one basket, but also sometimes you've got to risk it as well.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Risk it for a biscuit.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the reason being is sort of if you if you've got like two stations to go and people are ahead of you or whatever, um you know sort of that you're either going to kill yourself on the very last station, which is the wall balls, which I have to do.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh horrendous.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or you can sort of go, I'll I'll just take it sort of a little bit easier, um, and know that you can get through it.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there's a there's a it's just literally finding out how you can balance it for you.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: Do you love it?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I do love it, yeah.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: So how good are you with it?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I'm good.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so very humble there, isn't it?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Very humble, may interject.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Jane did her first uh event in Manchester and won her age group, which qualified her for the world championships in in Sweden.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um now Jane is at was at the top end of her age group when she entered that particular competition.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh she still came 24th out of 106th.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, however, if she'd been a month older, then she would have come second out of that higher age group, which Jane will now be in.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: Fantastic.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: So this is what you're now working towards.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: You're now in that higher age group.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: So what's the aim then to be number one?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Is this in the world or yeah?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: So she's fifth in the world currently.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm gonna for next year.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, fantastic, that's amazing.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: So taking that into work and being a female leader within financial services is very inspiring.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: Do you recommend High Rocks for kind of fitness and and mindset strength?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean the pair of us have have always been into sport.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um I before High Rocks I used to do triathlon.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Before triathlon, I just used to run, uh I say I just used to run run for the north of England.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I had three children to juggle as well at the same time.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think started off with dancing and bodybuilding and stuff like that.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there's always been something that we've well, that I've been involved in, and then when I met Mike, Mike has been involved in.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um and I've always tried to do it to the best of my ability.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see the point in doing something just to do it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to push yourself and really go for it.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: Do you do that into the work arena?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Always.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to do the best for my clients and I want to do the best for our business.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do the best for the people that work with us as well.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: It matters.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 100%.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: And might you're the same than I, fitness-wise.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Similar in in I don't do high rocks yet.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that's keeping me working and the fact that I won't retire for a few years yet is I've promised Jane that I will take up Hyrocks the day I finished work.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's keeping me going.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um no, in all realism, yeah.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Done triathlon, we've done triathlon for quite a few years now.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Prior to that, I used to play football, uh, running, etc.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: So similar, similar kind of background in that respect.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I did take a challenge on a few years back, um, specifically for two local charities for where we are, uh, Clare House on the Whirl and um Zoe's Place in Liverpool.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I did uh a challenge of 101 triathlons, sprint triathlons in 101 days, um, with the aim of raising as much money as we could through the Open Ware Partnerships Foundation because they they add an extra 50% of what you generate.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we we ended up, you know, fortunately creating£20,000 pot,£10,000 to each and going in to see those those charities and and what it meant to the people that are there.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was so amazing.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Powerful.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: So a very positive impact on the internet.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: But also it was really a positive with the team as well, um, because everybody got involved at certain stages um with it.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we we had a we had a team triathlon, didn't we, near the end?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was about the week before.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone, well, there were people that swam, there were people that went on the bike, there were people that ran.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was great.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was, and it really kind of got the team together and and a lot of them took stuff on after that.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also the spin-off effect was there were other people that we know, friends, clients, etc., relatives, that decided to do some sport because I'd done the 101 triathlons.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because we thought if he can do it, I can do it.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was almost that, you know.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think it really kind of had a a positive effect on so many different factors of of both of our lives and aero financial as well.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: So perfect.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it really did well.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: But it so it's part of the culture of the business.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Very much so.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm planning something else, which I'm not going to divulge today, but it still involves it involves triathlon.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but a little bit more than what I've already done.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I iron manager.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'll just give it a game away, have I?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: We're moving on.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: When did Arrow come about then?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, how long have you had Arrow as a business?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so 1998 is when we set it up, or when I set it up, should I say.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was working for Abbey National, which Santander as it is now, as a wealth manager in Birkenhead World.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, working so many hours, six days a week, five, six clients a day, just non-stop.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and this particular area manager booked in a meeting to see me.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know he was an area manager, called in and he said, Why are you doing this, Mike?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you working your guts out for Abbey National as it was?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you become a self-employed?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: You work your own diary and you make the money that you want to make.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: That really hit home with me because Jane and I couldn't see each other at weekends because I was working for Abbey National.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Jane was working for Barclays, we just couldn't see each other.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: We couldn't book summer holidays, all that kind of stuff, you know.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we said, well, actually, do you know what?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Life's about taking chances, let's do it.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: We had three kids mind, three kids under the age of seven, you know, we had mortgage on a house, all the rest of it.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's definite risk.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I said, no, we we've got enough faith in us, let's do it.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how it started.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: I've got to ask you at this stage here, then, because having the kids as well, you were both working crazy hours working for some of the big corporates, you were employed, you were like tied to the business, right?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: And you had three children.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: By then going down that self-employed route, everyone thinks, well, if I go self-employed, I'm gonna have so much time on my hands, I can do whatever I want, right?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: What was the reality?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: Did you get to spend more time with your kids?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: Did you work less, earn more?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: What was the reality of going from employed to self-employed?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've got to be responsible for your own actions with regards to that.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because yes, you can go and see, you can go and take the children to school, pick them up from school, um, you can sort of take time out for plays, you can you can do all of that, but you've got to be responsible as well to be able to say we've still got to put food on the table.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a holiday.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about time management and also being sort of excited about doing the work that you've got to put in.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: You've really, you know, it it it is that focus to be able to say, right, we need to get some nitty-grishy done now that the kids are in school, let's get this sorted, and and grabbing hold of the reins and running running with sort of some clear, really great business.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I just think I just think that that's that's really sort of how we ran it at first, yeah.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Being self-employed, you never switch off realistically.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's always something going on in the back of your mind.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: You may switch off physically and and you know, when you're not working, but in the back of your mind you are.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that helps us some of our best ideas is when we've been switched off from the business and thinking about working on the business as opposed to working in the business.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that genuinely works.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we sort of some really good ideas, and it's it's really we love it because it's evolved, it constantly evolves.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: We've never kept still.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're always taking chances of yeah, let's do another acquisition.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're working on our third, fourth, and fifth this year.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this year.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: This year.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we're absolutely full tilt because why not?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now is a superb opportunity.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: We believe there's a real opportunity in the marketplace with the backing of the open work partnership.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now they've had the the Bane capital investments as well.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: They really are pushing for growth.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that will help our business equally as well.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: Brilliant.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me about that then, because open work have supported you through this, through through being acquisitive as a business, right?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't something that was in your mind.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: You weren't thinking, right, I'm gonna go ahead and acquire loads of businesses.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: You probably didn't quite know where to start.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe can open work helping support you with that.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we've been on several different processes through the open work partnership.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think the one that stands out for me five or six years ago was called Capital Shift, that open work.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was a residential course.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: We went on separate courses and it really focused upon its mind, you it's your own thought process as opposed to letting outside things affect you.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's inside out thinking as opposed to outside in thinking.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and literally that changed my life without any exaggeration.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: How old were you then when that changed your life?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: That was just five, six years ago.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, I was about 57.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's wicked, isn't it?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: I something can change your life.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted all of our children to go on this programme because it was just so good.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Seriously, yeah.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me why then?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Why was it so good?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because it made you realise that you've got everything in your own control, within your own orbit, you've got absolutely tons of potential.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it doesn't matter what happens out in the world, if you let that affect you, then it will affect you.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't, if you think inside out, it doesn't matter, it's just the way I perceive things, then it gives you the power to get through everything.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it really has.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was one of the uh courses that we attended or programmes that we attended, and then the other one was partners partnering for growth.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so again, it was like-minded people that own businesses, but they they said, Yeah, we want to grow the business, we don't want to sit still or or farm the way we are, we want to grow the business, we want to really get stuck in.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they developed this program and they got us all involved, come down to London for regular meetings, and we fed off each other as regards to what we could do going forward, and I think that really inspired us to take it to the next level, and that's what we've done, you know, five businesses in the first few years.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and now, you know, as I say, I'm working on three, four, and five for this year alone.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: So potentially by the end of this year, we could have done ten acquisitions purely because of the drive that open work has instilled in us, yeah, and as well as our own drive, obviously.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: Beautiful.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: But they've realised that potential, you've realized that potential, they saw the potential in you, delivered you a blueprint for success within the network, off you go.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Now, what about those businesses you acquired?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: Were they within the network as well?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, four of the five that we've done so far have been.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: They were all ready to retire, but they hadn't got a succession plan.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now we've got a clear blueprint as regards to the way we perceive the business we will go going forward for a succession event.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we thought, well, let's bring these on.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: We'd known them for a long time, hadn't we, Jane?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: We'd known them for a long time.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we got on really well with them and we developed that relationship.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: They've come on board, the clients were delighted because we've got quite a young business, not just Jane and myself, but the business is young, and we could really help those clients achieve things that maybe they hadn't previously.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the advisors that we took the business or we acquired, they've now retired, and all of them are delighted that they've retired.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they've left the business in our capable hands.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: Did those advisors were they required to join your business for a set period of time during the buyout period, or could they retire because they were part of the open work network and you knew exactly where the assets were, etc.?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Again, Sam, what we do is we have a conversation with these people.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about their story about what they want to do.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them, yeah, stayed for a couple of years and they handed over clients, all the rest of it.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the others, well, one of them had to retire through ill health.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't a question of him being able to hand over to us.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: He was stuck in Australia, he couldn't get back, and he had to retire.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to be able to do that.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was sort of in COVID, wasn't it?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was during COVID times, yeah.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So so it it it it's horses for courses.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: If if it's right for the person to carry on and they want to work and they've got that that enthusiasm and the energy which again drives through our business, then we're delighted that they stay on.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't want to do that, that's fine too.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we've just done another one quite recently.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: He wants to finish, he doesn't want to work.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: And again, all we've done is all right, that's fine.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: You go and retire.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: What we may do is contact you by phone and just have a chat about various clients.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: But he's really happy because he's left his clients with us and we're running with it for him.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And all the feedback he's had from his clients has been positive to date.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's going the right way.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have to um sort of how long is the payout payment period then, for example?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're buying a business on an internal basis with open work, um, existing advisor or AR firm, um over what period do you have to do you have to to to to to pay that person?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's supposed to be as a maximum of five years, potentially seven if there's uh specific reasons for it.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um we've not actually gone down that road yet.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we've we've self-developed all of our purchases, uh acquisitions through our own money.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Through our own money.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, right.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um or borrowed for various other uh institutions.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: But we've not ventured down the open way partnership route as yet.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: But that that may be happening this year as we speak.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: Were you nervous, Jane, when you went down the acquisition route?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Was it something that you kind of made you feel a bit uncomfortable?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was, yeah.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it it did make me feel a little bit uncomfortable um at first.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: But then the thing is, if you don't explore these things, you you never know.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not that scared about it now because there's a process behind it.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we've seen how it works.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: But the f the first couple hours thinking to myself, oh we shouldn't be thinking about this now.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: We shouldn't but actually we should have always been thinking about it.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's just again that it's just pressing that sort of barrier, those lines of where you want to go.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody is nobody's ever gonna say, Oh, I'd I don't really wish to you know break the mile record or anything.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: They people do want to do it, otherwise they wouldn't they wouldn't be running.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: They wouldn't be running and they wouldn't be training that fast to to be able to break records.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: They want to do it.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: I can see a twinkle in his eye, and he's saying he's gonna have 10 by the end of the year.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think this man's gonna probably have about 20 by the end of the year, or he's gonna keep on going.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, what is that?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: What's the end goal?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't got an end goal as such.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know that the people I'm in conversation with right now, they're hungry to join us, yeah, and we're hungry for them to join us.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now, whether that hunger will still be there next year or the year after, who knows?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: But whilst we've got the support through the Open Ware Partnership, we've got Lisa Cook, who's our uh partnership development manager, we've got a really good uh Richard Holden, who is a technical and compliance manager.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: They give us really, really good support.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're like part of our team.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: We have regular team meetings every six weeks.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: They are part of our team.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: They are part of our team.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they come in and give us you know little tips and hints and all the rest of it, and really try and grow our business with us.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got the support, you know.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Open work are really trying to go places, they're trying to treble the size of their own um size of the partnership within a five-year period from last year.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: So all the ingredients are there for us to push that button and keep going, literally keep going.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So until that kind of tapers off and we lose the hunger to do so, I want to keep going, yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: Gonna keep going.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: What about technology?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: What about AI?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: Have you been implementing that and has that been helping you make decisions to acquire businesses?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so again, Saturn AI is the preferred choice through Open Ware Partnership.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we've we've embraced that.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's very much a tool at stay at this stage.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um It obviously can develop further than than we're using it currently.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we we're we're hoping that it we can adjust it and and run with it to help us not only in the wealth space, which it does currently, uh, but in the mortgage span and the protection space as well.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it'll be a really keen tool.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it's one of those things that again, a lot of advisors out there throwing their arms up and thinking, oh, it's the ends of financial advice, you know, AI is going to take over.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Not a bit of it.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's really exciting.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's a tool.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if we can embrace it, run with it, nurture it, it's gonna take us from where we are to maybe ten times our size, who knows?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the way we look at things, not the pessimistic way others may do.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: Must spend that cautioner on them because that's the that's that positive thinking, isn't it?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: So saying the Americans, they're sort of totally up for it.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this is gonna grow businesses, it's gonna give us huge amounts more opportunities.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: Why in the UK is everyone freaking out?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna lose this job, or that person's gonna lose their job.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, well, do you know that?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: You haven't got a clue.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: But if you think about it, sort of twent 20 years ago, people who are now in the job spaces, we didn't even know that those jobs existed.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna be exactly the same with AI.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we just need to be on the front foot with it all the time.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: It can help so many in so many ways.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the other thing is though, I will still still say people want to see people.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: We just need to use AI to help us do all of the back part of it because people do want to see people.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can't even think of one person that I've I've ever sort of one client that I've I've been with that has sort of gone, do you know what?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just go and do it on the computer because it's just not going to happen.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like they want to see people, they don't want to talk about a mortgage or know that they're pressing the button that's gonna be right or wrong, or is it this rate?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is it that rate?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want that.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: They want the person to make a decision for them.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think we've been sat behind computers for far too long as humans sat you know behind computers, mobile phones, iPads, you know, we're staring into these screens and we're sick of it, aren't we?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: And we want to connect again and we want to build connection and we want to feel good and release that oxytocin, smile and be happy and hang around with people and enjoy life and connect.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's exactly what's gonna happen to us.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna be more human than we've ever been, and the technology is gonna help us um give us time free to be able to actually do that.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the requirement and a need for those interpersonal skills that is the biggest thing, and that's the biggest worry a bit because you've got all these people that came out of university and he was like, right, be a programmer.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, you know, and they were considered to be like some of the most intelligent people out there.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: What are they gonna do now when all of a sudden they don't they can't program anymore?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you have to lean into the light, you have to lean into the ability to see round corners, you know, you've got to be like you have to be you know, your personality and your interpersonal skills, they are at the forefront of what people are gonna be looking for now, is how you're gonna connect.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: People often say to me, are you not worried about AI taking over taking over podcasting?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, what who's gonna want to watch a podcast knowing full well that it's an AI host.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's like it doesn't make sense.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think this this line, right?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: There's this line when it comes to content like what I do, right?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna talk about myself now.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: But there's this line, and I think there's there's pre-AI and there's post-AI.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: Now, whoever's built their brand pre-AI as a human, right?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: In the post-AI world, they're the ones that are gonna stand out.
• 25:21
  unknown: Yeah.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because everyone's gonna know that I know Sam Oak because he was he's always been there.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas post-AI, when the video is so incredibly good, people be like, well, I don't think that's AI or not.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: They're always gonna be gravitating back towards originality.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Who is the human here?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: We want to see and hear a human.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think that's the key thing.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I think now is a great time for everybody to be building out personal brands, yeah, you know, showing that they are who they are, because I believe as well in the AI world, you know, you'll have this is AI.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: I don't believe for a second you can just put something out and fool anybody.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: I just don't think it will happen.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I think um, you know, even if you see it now on a micro level, some of the slop that's out there in perspective AI, people don't want that.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: There is it's distinctly lacking the human element of it.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: It is, definitely.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so what about so that comes into growing the business then?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: So how many people you've got in your business?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: So 12 in total.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: We've got six advisors, the seven are joining us uh next month.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we've got a marketing team, so our son and his partner on the marketing team.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, we've got we've got a I think there's a dynamic kind of ecosystem within the business.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and to go into our offices, which literally overlook Arrow Park.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which is the lungs of the world, which is the wear of the lungs of the world, which is the leisure peninsula.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's great, you know, and and some of the guys go out for a run at lunchtime, or some go to the gym, which is literally just down the road the road from us.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: We encourage them to do that.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: We do so, yeah.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that's what we want.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: We want when people join us, they've got their own diary.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's not you've got to do this and that, the other.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: They have their own diary.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: All we ask is for is commitment to the best thing for the client, look after themselves, and look after the diary, and the business will grow.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, people with that kind of self-starter uh kind of um about them really does fit into our business because the self-starters, you've got to have that self-employed mentality, even if they're employed.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, and we don't want to have to micromanage them, you know.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to have to say, well, what did you do this day and all the rest of it?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: We want to say, yeah, go out, we've got enough clients for everybody to look after, and for the clients to get the very best from those advisors and support team.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just do it.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Combination of mortgage and wealth, yes, and specialist wealth as well, specialist licenses as well for wealth.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, like venture capital trusts, business relief, enterprise investment schemes, etc.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we do a lot of that as well.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: So you're working with businesses, yeah.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we work, I mean, again, our our client bank is quite quite scattered in the sense that it's fr from Edinburgh down to Kent.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um due to the acquisitions though as well.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, really, it's it's kind of through referral, through referrals and all the rest of it, and we'll go anywhere to see people.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, it's growing, and we see holistic advice, and I think that may be an overused term, but it is it's sitting down with someone and finding out what their story is and seeing how we can help them as a person to get to where they want to be, starting right here, right now.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we look at every aspect of their financial planning journey.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're both incredibly busy, right?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you are acquiring businesses, okay, and you wear a lot of hats.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: What hats do open work wear for you when it comes to one acquiring businesses, growing the business, hiring people, training development?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: Let's go into what support they're actually providing you to help you get to the next stage as well.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think again, you know, that the people the troops with the feet on the ground are Lisa Cook and Richard Holden.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're instrumental to the growth story that we're looking at.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, we've got open work at Swindon, which is the head office, uh, and they do all the training, they do all the qualifications through the business school.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: So they do so much heavy lifting for us.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: We just have to find the right people to put in front of open work, and it gets them from A to B.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some of the best success stories that we've had has been people that have come from outside of financial services.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: They never thought they were going to be a financial advisor.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: They've, you know, some have been a print printer.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um you never saw the light of day, really.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: He never saw the light of day.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he he said, No, I I want to I want to try this, you know.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we gave him the opportunity and he's he's knocking it out the park, and he loves it.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: His clients love him.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at our website, he's had so many positive Google reviews.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: He's embraced it, Tave's really embraced it and ran with it, and that's what we want to see all of the guys do.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Giving them an opportunity to change their lifestyle, change their their occupation, and sit take it on as a career, not a job.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's a key difference between the two.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: What kind of courses are they going on then under open work?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: Then are the qualifications?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: They're doing the business school and everything.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so yeah.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: So again, they do all the the uh formal qualifications, the RO qualifications through the open work business school.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they also do internal uh qualifications so they know all of the products that we deal with.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it's it's again we we tend to start them off as admin, then go into mortgage and protection, then go into wealth and pensions.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Why'd you do that?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: We do that really so they get an understanding of everything from the ground up, you know.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they get a real understanding, processing a mortgage application as to what we need to do to get a mortgage for a for a client.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it just develops and develops and develops.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's the reason behind it.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think sort of with financial services as well, there's there's sort of a lot of uh complicated jargon out there.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: And even if you knew a little bit before you came in, you're just not going to know all of the words, all of how it is.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you work on the admin side, you get to know in a really sort of friendly, gentle way of you know what documents are to be used, oh the phrases, the you know, the the people are just actually getting to understand it before they then go, yeah, right, okay, we're gonna do the exams.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: What's your expectation for people if they come and join your business then?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: And um you maybe they've got an expectation themselves to become a financial planner.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: What's the what's the time scale?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: How long do they spend in administration, mortgage, before they get to wealth?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: And do they have to do that?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Some people don't ha don't want to go to wealth.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um we've had people that just want to stop uh being a protection advisor, and that's great as well, because that's that's a really, really important role.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, and then there are other people that do the sort of uh like Sam at the moment, he's he's doing mortgages and protection at the moment, but he will want to do wealth.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he does want to do wealth, and he and he's uh he's such a high flyer, so he'll go through all of his his wealth exams probably next year.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think the book do you think the sort of route from mortgage advice into financial planning wealth management?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think this is going to be like a huge area for the growth of financial planning, seeing as there's such a small amount of advisors, 30,000 advisors?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: The average age is actually 48.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people think it's 58, it's 48.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: So the average age of an advisor is a little less than than what it brought what what people thought it was.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: But we're obviously in desperate need of new people coming in.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: There is 9,000 power planners out there, which a majority of those are women, so there's plenty of them that we can actually pull across from there, get those numbers up because only 16% are women in financial planning as well.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: But do you think mortgages is like a really strong area where we could start to dip into and put them into financial planning?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: I do because people want require mortgages, they definitely want to have a mobile.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want to have a mortgage, they want to have a house, they've got to get a mortgage to have a house.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they've got to go.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very proactive route for somebody to get their confidence and to develop those interpersonal skills when interviewing clients and and seeing how they can assist the client to get to where they want to be.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's a fundamental for them to do that.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's again, it's it's a piece of string.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: It literally is how good they are, whether they're comfortable in that space and want to remain in that space, that's fine.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: But if they do want to develop, Jay mentioned it, you know, we can get them into the wealth space.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: We've done it with several of our advisors, and every single one is doing really well as a result.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna go back to these acquisitions then.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: So when you're going through that that that journey, do you find that once you've done one, the next one's easier?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what's happened or are they all different as we go along?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think anything's easy.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh what what I've found is that I always want to get the next one under my belt.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not a question of getting uh doing an acquisition and then sitting on that acquisition until everything is just right.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's best to keep moving, keep moving and keep acquiring.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's why we're hopefully going to be up to five this year.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because you know, we've got the hunger, we've got the everything through the open work partnership is there for us to take it to the next level and then to take the next level again.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that for me is key.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's not do so many acquisitions and stay there, it's about keep moving, keep growing and keep evolving.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: What's your advice to anyone who's actually going through an acquisition for say from a um a buyer perspective?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: What would your advice be based on your experience?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: It can hurt, but keep going.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: In what way can it hurt?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Not everything is going to go according to plan.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because you'll do a blueprint, you'll do a you know an ideal process, a business plan, all the rest of it.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Things hiccups happen, things will fall off here, there, there, and everywhere.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's keep moving, keep going forwards.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: The support is there from again the open work and also believe in yourself.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you've started the process, complete it.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Don't give up.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: Do open work do the due diligence on it as well, then?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: Do they help you with the due diligence side, even if you're buying from say outside the network?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so with within the network they do.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if we get authority of an acquisition that we're going to go through with, they'll give us full in or full uh authority to speak to open work about their practice.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got all of that data.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we can get as much of that as we need.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that is always open.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: With the acquisition that we did, who who wasn't part of the network, he was an IFA.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: That was slightly different.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was quite a few years ago.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the circumstances surrounding it, open work wouldn't have been able to help us, really, I don't think.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because it was a separate entity altogether.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: And when you look at your business, like, you know, you don't sound like you want to stop working, and I love that actually, you know, that feeling of just wanting to crack on and carry on, like, you know, you don't really want to stop by the sounds of it.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: But it, you know, is there a point when when you you consider yourself you've you're done, you're finished.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: Are you selling or are you looking to sort of just um have a succession plan within the business and still be involved in it and have it running as arrow continually?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the ideal would be the four people that have been on the um route to principal course through open work, they will develop their skills and they will be our succession.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we've kind of built our hopes on.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now if that we can peel off.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we can peel off.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's the idea.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Once we lose the passion that we've got, then I think we will know and we will say, let's see, do you know what?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hands up.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's time we kind of exited, left.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um so that's the whole point of this roots principle for you, then is using that as that succession plan.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: Okay very much so.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: So let's just quickly just jump into the root principle again.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, talk about that then.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: What is covered in the roots principle um and why is that going to be part of your succession plan?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: So they give you the the kind of the nuts and bolts of how to run the business.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: They they insist upon business plans, they then test those business plans to see if there was a if there was another COVID situation, how would that business plan stand up?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: So evidence stress tested throughout that scheme.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it goes on for I think it's said either nine months or twelve months now.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um so the it's regularly, rigorously tested throughout to ensure that you know they would be able to cope as a principal of a business should anything happen going forward, that you know, any circumstance.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that we've seen with the advisors that have been on, they've got that robustness that maybe they didn't have prior to going.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: They used to be an advisor, but now they can see the way of a business evolves and kind of grows.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: They can see it, they they've got an appreciation of it, certainly.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think they know how many more cogs are behind the clock face of them being advisors.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are things that they probably didn't even think about that needs to needs to happen in the background.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's given them the fuel to be able to sort of say, you know, yes, this is what we want to do in the future, not quite ready yet.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's great to have that there, isn't it?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: When you're running a business, like you know, you're thinking you're cooking, you want to keep these people interested.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: So having like a root principle, having all these extra courses and programs that you can put them on, you don't have to come up with it.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: But in the background, somebody at Open Work is constantly developing the training and development and the courses.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's a real powerful thing to have because it takes that little bit of pressure off of you for having to motivate everybody day in and day out.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because a lot of the time people do turn to you and they do expect you to motivate them.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_03: But when you can kind of point them in the direction that it's ever evolving, get yourself over there, get stuck into this.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's tried and tested, you're going to improve.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, that over there is benefiting you.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: Whilst you can kind of give yourself that element of freedom to go out and start to do the things that you want to do, which is be acquisitive and build the business that way.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: What about the AUM at the moment then?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: Where do you sit currently?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: So approximately 75 on platform, another 35 off platform.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: If these acquisition acquisitions go ahead, which Twitchwood they will.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Of course they will.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're looking at 110 million assets on platform and 57 million off platform.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: So a major step in the right direction, I believe.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I would be looking to probably do in the region of 600 mortgages a year then.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: As a business.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: What does 600 mortgages a year as a business do in respect of income?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: I've not I wouldn't.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: About 900,000.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: About 900,000.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then on the top of that, protection business as well.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Protection business, yeah.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: So important.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: So again, Jane um is really focused on protection for clients.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we've had some as a business, we've had some really interesting claim stories.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, across right across the board.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we build everything on the basis of the correct protection for for our clients so that they can, you know, plan for their dreams and achieve them regardless of what happens for them and their family.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: So protection being the fundamental foundation of financial advice, yeah.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's so easy not to mention it.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's so easy not to mention it.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's I think it's hard to mention it and to sort of go go into sort of the the fundamentals of it.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: But it's got to be at the right time and you've got to have the right introductions, and then the per the clients actually got to see sort of the reasons why.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of digging around that needs to be done to unearth things from the client before a successful sort of introduction of where that goes.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's it's so important.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: And also, do you know?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we need to be more resilient on people having knockbacks.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when when people are like, Oh, well, I'll have a think about it.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what exactly are you gonna go away and have a think about?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: We need to re-examine what the client hasn't understood.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we need to be brave enough to sort of just go, well, what happens if because I could have quite easily done that with one of my clients.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad I didn't.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: One of the most the fittest guys in the world that I'm gonna say, he was nothing's gonna happen to me.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so fit, I'm really healthy.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um this guy did rugby, tri uh triathlon including Iron Man, you know, fittest guy ever.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he he sort of and I he wasn't gonna take any protect.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, he was gonna take half protection.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Look, you you your family deserves to have this.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: You you're in a great position, protect everything now.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're the main breadwinner.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, he did a little bit of effing and blinding and whatnot.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we sort of did a a few little sort of cuts and snippets here and there.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um and he did take it, and two months later he went out for a run and was hit from behind by a car.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus and spent 77 days in hospital um on a life support machine and what I'd set up paid out at that point.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: But if he'd had not done it, he just wouldn't have had anything.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: What did you set up?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: What was the point?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: I set up a life and critical illness.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Life and critical illness.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, with also there was an accident plan in there as well, because he was sort of doing sports, and it's it was just so invaluable to have that for him and his family.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: The thing is as well, that story, you can then use that in your next.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's so powerful.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's so powerful.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you can be the fittest person in the world, and I understand that.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: Perfectly.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you are fit.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens if someone else decides that it's not gonna happen for you?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: I used to work for Viva and I used to train out protection, and um it'd be the classic line was, Well, I'll be dead.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: What do I care?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: What about your what about your family?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I see comfort in the fact that if I was to die today, my wife and my child are all right.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: And there is a peace of mind, uh, and uh and it does have a psychological effect on you.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: It does make you feel way more happier and more confident um and calmer knowing that the people that I love the most are going to be protected if I was to to die or if I was to get ill.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's one of those crazy things we kind of push to one side.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why we just don't want to talk about it, do we?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Death is pretty horrible things to talk about.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: But I also think when people tend to be having that conversation about protection, they tend to be doing it when they're getting a mortgage.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: And when you're getting a mortgage, especially now, right, it's nine times your salary, like it's expensive, like you know, all your money is going into getting that house because you want that specific house that you because it's for your family, and you're thinking, well, you know, an extra hundred quid a month for life cover, I just can't afford it.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: So they tend to push that to the side on the hope that they'll get more money to be able to pay their mortgage, right?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's kind of can put people off a lot of the time and actually go, oh, I'll do that afterwards, don't worry, I'll get that done later.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: And also the mortgage buyer wants to get the mortgage free, get the deal done, because it's harder to sell mortgages at the moment.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, it's one of those crazy situations, but it's it's just about look, you know, it's it's almost kind of a necessity.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: You have to have it.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if you don't have it, you know, you know, bad things can happen.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: So that's what people need to understand.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: So a little bit of fear, a little bit of worry, I think, around things which is protection at the end of the day for their greater good and the greater good of their family.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just getting them to understand their situation because a lot of people just brush it off.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: I've got death and service at work, I'm okay, or what have you.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's the critical illness or it's the income protection, it's those key areas that we really need to let or get the client to understand that they require it.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: We know they need it, they don't.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's Jane especially was skilled at that in or is it that in teaching these people actually, yeah, I really do need critical illness, and do you know what I really do need income protection?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: I do a lot of coaching around the budget plan, uh, you know, sort of the income and expenditure of people of of what they like doing with the money, what do they do, where do they go, um, what do they buy, what makes them tick?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what would happen if they didn't have that money to buy their coat, buy their shoes, or go on holiday, or uh go to the gym or whatever.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's those type of things that I try and sort of encourage our guys to work around and have in having those chats with clients.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: Make people feel uncomfortable.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's important to do that because you know what?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: You'd be wrong if you didn't.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly that.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're doing them a disservice, right?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's the whole point of making that wrong.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I've done the right thing for them because if they didn't feel that uncomfortable, how are they going to feel when something goes wrong?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it really is uncomfortable.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: Listen, Michael Jane, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: I could talk to you all day as a lovely couple.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's nice to see two people as well, married, running a business, having fun, having success, keeping fit and healthy, building a business and leaning into the open work partnership.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds like it's a great ecosystem for you.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds like the next few years aren't slowing down, which is really nice to see.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm glad you're enjoying it all.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: And good luck with the high rocks, gonna be keeping in touch to see how you get on, and good luck with growing the business.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: But um, thank you very much today for sharing your financial planner life.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much, Jason.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.