Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / Agency, Hope, and AI: Keeping Human Connection at the Center with AI4MN

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Agency, Hope, and AI: Keeping Human Connection at the Center with AI4MN · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
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and let's integrate this. Welcome to the Integrate
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This at Tech podcast. I'm Jeremy Mikla and I'm
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joined by co -host David Berner. If you happen
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to be watching us on YouTube instead of just
0:50
listening to us on one of the podcast channels,
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which you might notice that instead of a three
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split screen here, we have a four way split,
1:00
which is. meaning we have two guests that are
1:03
joining us here today. We have Donna Roper and
1:06
we have Jen Hegna. Listeners might remember Jen
1:10
was on our program, I think it was last summer.
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And I know we had some great conversations with
1:16
her then, but we're excited to bring Donna on
1:19
as well. And I think one of the things that we
1:23
like to do with our guests is have them just
1:25
kind of give a little bit of their background
1:27
rather than hearing it from David and I, you
1:31
know, then it sounds like a canned intro speech,
1:33
you know, like people I think usually do better
1:37
when they can kind of talk a little bit about.
1:40
where they are and how they got here. But I think
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what I'd like to say about both of you here before
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I turn it over and let you do that is David and
1:48
I know both of you fairly well. Both of you are
1:52
from Minnesota. David and I are from Minnesota.
1:55
We've had the opportunity to speak with one another
1:57
at different conferences and in different Zoom
2:00
meetings and the like. And I think David and
2:04
I are coming from a place where I think I'd like
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to say at the outset that we really appreciate.
2:10
the work that both of you and the MNGAIA or AI
2:14
for MN organization is doing on behalf of education
2:19
in the state of Minnesota. So, you know, I think
2:23
both of us has definitely taken and borrowed
2:26
liberally from some of the work that you guys
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have kind of been blazing a trail with. And so
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we really, really appreciate that. And so I'm
2:34
going to kick it over to Donna first. Donna,
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why don't you give a little bit of background
2:38
here and then we'll give Jen a chance to do the
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same. Excellent. Well, thanks for having me on.
2:44
It's just an honor to watch even you guys grow
2:47
in this whole podcast as I've been following
2:50
it for I'd say now a year. So yeah, a little
2:54
bit about me. I think my day job really is about
2:57
measuring success for systems. So I sit in the
3:00
research evaluation and assessment and now AI
3:03
integration role with the Saint Cloud area schools,
3:06
which means, you know, I really get to understand
3:09
whether our students are learning and whether
3:12
our systems are working. and whether we're telling
3:16
that story accurately and equitably to our families
3:19
and staff and the school board. And so all of
3:22
that also means that the things that are happening
3:26
in our classrooms every single day aren't just
3:29
large scale assessments, it's classroom assessment
3:32
and it's also AI, right? And so here's what makes
3:35
the work really humbling and urgent for me is
3:38
that in St. Cloud area schools, we look like
3:40
the world, right? We have students from dozens
3:43
of countries. dozens of backgrounds and languages,
3:47
bringing in all kinds of lived experiences. And
3:51
so when we design and we evaluate and create
3:55
comprehensive, balanced assessment systems, we
4:00
have to have broader definitions of success.
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And so I know this is kind of a long way to get
4:07
to my point, but measurement actually has to
4:10
be worthy of the full humanity of the kids that
4:12
we serve, right? And this is actually what drew
4:15
me to AI. Because that same question that we
4:20
ask about every assessment, does it truly see
4:24
this child, is also the exact question we need
4:28
to be asking about every AI system and tool that
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is landing in the hands of our skilled users
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to move and improve and accelerate learning.
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That's a little bit how I got into this space.
4:45
And that's a little bit about my background.
4:47
We started from a technology perspective and
4:50
said, wait, this has to come from the learning
4:53
perspective first, followed by the tech and supported
4:57
through that lens. And so that's a little bit
4:59
my background and how I come into this space.
5:03
So we'll pass it to you, Jen. Sure. Jen Hegna,
5:07
I'm the Director of Information and Learning
5:10
Technology for Byron Public Schools in Byron,
5:12
Minnesota. And I have been doing this for a very
5:15
long time. My first PD session was how to use
5:20
email with teachers. And I remember that session
5:24
because it was the first time I ever designed
5:26
any kind of PD. And I remember a teacher saying,
5:30
well, when are we actually ever going to use
5:32
this? If you go back 30 years of how that started,
5:38
and today we're designing sessions around artificial
5:42
intelligence, just kind of shows the gamut of
5:45
my work. I also am very passionate about human
5:50
skills. And our district in the last eight years
5:55
have been working really hard on our profile
5:57
of a graduate. And those are the human skills
6:00
that are for me to bring to the table in this
6:04
AI era. And some of the professional development
6:08
that's happened within our district has really
6:11
improved the technology use. in the classroom.
6:18
So, you know, and I'm a big believer that, you
6:21
know, learning design, instructional design really
6:24
matters. And it's going to matter even more in
6:27
the age of AI, which we already are here. So
6:30
those are kind of my lenses. And I still, you
6:34
know, answer tech support calls and all of those
6:36
other things. But I'm really passionate about
6:41
professional development, learning, and how are
6:44
we going to make sure we prepare kids for this
6:46
era? Because it really is shaking up things on
6:50
the outside. So both of you have been in on the
6:54
ground floor of the Minnesota Generative AI Alliance,
6:58
morphing, I think, more into AI for Minnesota.
7:03
You know, was there a moment, do you think, that
7:06
caused you and the other members of the group
7:10
to say, hey, wait a minute, we need to come together
7:15
here in the state of Minnesota. Let's take AI.
7:18
Let's make sure we're applying a human lens to
7:21
it and move forward in a similar direction. And
7:26
what was that like? I can start. I would say
7:31
for me, just thinking about the value of this
7:36
group, I don't remember any time in the last
7:40
30 years where K -12, higher ed, and the workforce
7:45
were all kind of in the same spot. And to think
7:49
about how we have pockets of innovation in our
7:52
classrooms. We have districts that are leading
7:55
the pack in different areas. But this is really
8:00
a unified effort. to how do we make sure we prepare
8:06
these K -12 students for the workforce that they
8:09
are entering, to even those that are in the workforce,
8:13
how are they getting prepared? And I think that
8:17
was my moment of realization. Of course, it started
8:22
for me at the summit, and I'll let Donna talk
8:26
more about that. But then having people collectively
8:29
coming together from different areas, of how
8:33
to solve this problem was kind of the exciting
8:36
work that really led me to AI4MN. Yeah. Yeah.
8:42
And to just kind of piggyback on that, I don't
8:44
think that we originally thought it was going
8:47
to be about just the human -centered skills.
8:51
So three years ago, when this kicked off, it
8:54
was really about the what, the content. Like,
8:59
what should kids need to know and be able to
9:01
do? And the how is what Mingaya was started off
9:05
as was to kind of kick down that how pathway
9:08
of how are we going to use these tools? And it
9:12
wasn't really until a year in where we sort of
9:15
gathered team members in diverse perspectives
9:19
and momentum, and I think spent some time studying
9:22
and observing just how quickly AI was moving,
9:26
right? did we get to this point of the human
9:31
-centered, human -led skills being really, really
9:36
more of a focus, at least from my perspective.
9:41
So I think we started out as the action -oriented
9:48
group from the initial first summit of how are
9:52
we going to move these tools? Are we going to
9:54
make sure everybody has what they need? knowing
9:57
that districts are configured in very different
10:00
ways and that their access to resources and information
10:04
and just humans to help them move the work would
10:08
be really uneven. And there was this gap maybe
10:13
that we were seeing from the State Department
10:16
into districts. And so we were trying to fill
10:19
that hole initially. And it has evolved really
10:22
nicely over time towards more of a focus. Um,
10:27
but the Minnesota generative AI Alliance for
10:30
education, obviously as a Gentic and, um, agents
10:33
popped up, we all were like, Oh, Jenny, I is
10:37
not the only AI. Oh my goodness. We need to like
10:39
be considering a broader, um, range of AI tools
10:44
and just its impact. And so the AI for men was
10:49
something that we, you know, we were thinking
10:53
about early on, but not thinking to change Mengya
10:56
to AI for Men until we started realizing, well,
11:00
agents and, you know, this is just going so fast
11:02
and we've got to be all inclusive. So, um, yeah,
11:06
so I think really, and when I would say, Jen,
11:09
your contributions and many other of the Mengya
11:13
members who participated in some thought leadership
11:16
work in August, I think helped us get more clarity
11:19
around some of those human centered priority
11:22
skills that were. focusing on now? Well, and
11:25
I think, too, like, you know, as we think about
11:28
whether it's professional development or any
11:30
of those things, like keeping the people that
11:34
we serve at the center of what we are trying
11:37
to do is super important. The human centered
11:40
design approach starts with empathy. And, you
11:43
know, and that's, you know, there are human skills
11:47
that AI just cannot replace. And so I think it's
11:50
super important that whatever we are designing,
11:53
whether it's a thought leaders summit, a professional
11:57
development, any kind of policies, that we have
12:03
to go back to who it is we're trying to serve.
12:07
And we don't necessarily serve just one person.
12:11
We have a large range of people in Minnesota
12:14
and a large range of students from different
12:16
backgrounds and people with different resources.
12:19
And so when we come together, how do we level
12:23
the playing fields for everybody to participate?
12:25
And think of that while we design. And Donna,
12:29
I know you've had the opportunity to do a little
12:31
bit of traveling around to some other states
12:33
and definitely been able to talk to leaders in
12:36
other parts of the country when it comes to the
12:40
AI and education space. And I'm kind of curious,
12:44
from your perspective, how is Minnesota doing
12:47
relative to those other states? Or do you think
12:50
we're progressing, you know, with the ideas,
12:54
the policies, the guidance and putting our energies
12:59
in the right place as compared to other states?
13:01
Or do you think we're falling behind about equal?
13:05
Yeah, no, that's such a great question. And I've
13:08
had a lot of time to think about that one because
13:10
I frequently wonder like, are we behind? Where
13:14
are we? When I stop and think about how important
13:18
it is for us to get it right or at least be You
13:23
know doing the next step in a very wise fashion.
13:27
I don't necessarily feel behind When I go into
13:34
spaces that are nationally organized with other
13:37
districts that are in curriculum and instruction
13:39
I don't feel behind I feel like we actually have
13:43
had a lot more conversation. We may not structurally
13:48
on the books have policy or state regulation
13:51
like other states, for example, North Carolina,
13:55
or even Utah. But I do think that we have a network,
14:04
we've built a network through Mingaya that is
14:09
proving to be much more connected than what's
14:12
happening in other states. So you will hear when
14:15
you come to the AI Summit from Matt Winters,
14:18
who is a state leader from Utah, talk about what's
14:23
happening there. And he's created state cross
14:27
state collaboration, where we've been able to
14:29
go and learn what they're actually doing in those
14:31
states. And so from from where we sit with Mingaya,
14:36
I feel very confident that we you know, we aren't
14:40
behind. Let's just put it that way. Is it, are
14:42
any of us ahead? I don't know how you would quantify
14:45
being ahead in this space. I think the best we
14:49
can strive to do is be engaged, be thoughtfully
14:53
engaged and concerned and, and working towards,
14:58
you know, making things work sustainable, you
15:03
know, effective, impactful, those kinds of things.
15:07
Well, you do have to concede that we Minnesotans
15:11
tend to like undersell ourselves a little bit
15:13
here. So maybe there's a little bit of that going
15:15
on too. So yeah, I was gonna ask as you've kind
15:23
of as things have progressed and you brought
15:25
this up, Don, and this is a really good point
15:26
too that it's not really about like who's ahead.
15:30
Everybody is trying to work on something to make
15:34
things better or. to improve in different areas
15:37
and learn from each other, which I think is extremely
15:40
important. Can we just take a step back and look
15:43
at, so let's go back to like the beginning of
15:46
Mingaya. Who was in the room at the very beginning?
15:51
Like who was that core group that first started
15:53
out? So that's a great question. At the very
15:57
beginning, it started out with, you know, I would
16:02
say we had some policymaker people. We had higher
16:06
ed. We had some business and industry folks.
16:09
We had Massa. We had like the leadership organizations
16:12
in K -12 in a space. And the idea again was to
16:17
convene a group. We brought in some outside expertise
16:22
from the OECD to get educated on some of the
16:27
challenges. Really the curriculum was the big
16:30
topic of conversation was how are we going to
16:32
get to a place where we're defining educational
16:37
competencies that are going to be meaningful
16:41
in a world that's enhanced by AI, right? And
16:45
so through this sort of nine or 10 people representing
16:50
those sectors, we created the summit and we said
16:55
at that summit, we were going to have action
16:58
come from that summit. And we identified during
17:02
that first summit, two pathways. One was the
17:05
what, which is again, dealing with the curriculum
17:08
and the standards. The second was the how, and
17:10
that is how MNGAIA was sort of formed initially,
17:15
was through that action step out of that initial
17:19
one day thought leader summit the first year.
17:25
And then I think Jen, you were at that very first
17:28
one. So were you at the very first one? I was,
17:31
I wasn't part of any planning of the first summit.
17:34
I was actually in, I was just a participant and
17:37
it was fantastic. Um, I didn't actually come
17:41
on until probably year two. And again, I was
17:45
just more of a, like a participant in some of
17:48
the monthly Mangaia meetings. Um, and just, um,
17:54
found that I was becoming more and more connected
17:58
to what the possibilities and the opportunities
18:01
that AI for MN or Mangaia could solve for the
18:06
state. So I would say I was a little later in
18:12
the team, but I'm just thrilled to see what has
18:20
been. and more importantly, what opportunities
18:24
are to come. And I think, I just want to echo,
18:28
you know, some of the things that Donna said
18:31
about, you know, other states. And I think right
18:33
now there's an opportunity to go slow, to go
18:36
fast, to make sure we're really firm on some
18:42
of the things that mean the most, that we feel
18:44
mean the most. so that we can build the right
18:49
things and work with partners that are building
18:51
the right things for all of Minnesota. So that's,
18:56
whether you're K -12 or higher ed or in the workforce,
19:00
I think that's the thing that I look back to
19:04
and feel most connected. So Jen, Byron has done
19:09
some work in regards to AI as well as a standalone
19:14
district. as you kind of look at your connection
19:19
to Mangaia, and then you have also the work that's
19:24
being done internally at Byron, how does what
19:29
happens at the Mangaia level help in kind of
19:34
some of the things that you might do at an individual
19:37
district so that it's not like, you know, you're
19:43
just kind of on your own, but you're able to
19:46
use that? How would you say those two connect?
19:50
You know, I think a couple of things. You know,
19:53
I think it was St. Cloud who first came out with
19:57
their generative AI guidelines a few years back.
20:00
And that was a signal, you know, from definitely
20:04
from our district. you know, to I'm not going
20:08
to say it necessarily was Mingaya, but that was
20:10
definitely, you know, a signal to to get some
20:13
of that work started. And by the way, that is
20:17
excellent work to do with your districts. I know,
20:21
you know, you guys both are working with districts
20:24
in your regions to do that. And. because when
20:28
we opened up and published our generative AI
20:32
guidelines, which by the way was developed by
20:34
a group of teachers, it just opened the door
20:38
and people weren't afraid to talk about it or
20:42
weren't afraid to try things with students. So
20:44
that was something that was relatively connected
20:48
to Mingaya and all of the stories that come out
20:52
from our monthly meetings. and other strategies
20:57
that are happening throughout the state, kind
21:00
of as that ideation is something that I really
21:03
connect with as well. So there's lots of opportunities.
21:07
And I think this network of people that we're
21:10
starting to assemble, I think there's just opportunities.
21:14
If I have an ELA teacher. You know, or maybe
21:19
a Singleton teacher. I'm from a small district.
21:22
You know, we have Singleton teachers that they're
21:23
the only people. Well, this network could potentially
21:26
connect them with other other folks in the state
21:29
that are teaching the same thing. And, you know,
21:32
those kinds of goals. But there's also sometimes,
21:36
you know, there is also some challenges that
21:39
I was having in the district. And it's like,
21:42
you know, and. what opportunity are there to,
21:46
you know, fix those challenges or find ways to
21:48
overcome challenges? And knowing that, you know,
21:52
the way we've always done school, um, isn't really
21:56
serving, you know, what, what the new, what these
21:59
students are going to need. So, you know, are
22:01
those, are there people out there that have either
22:03
solved some of these problems or are there, you
22:07
know, other examples of ideas where we can reach
22:10
out to people that you know might be able to
22:12
help us solve those problems. And I think that
22:15
to me was another area that I was super excited
22:17
about as kind of a you know an inward but then
22:22
also outward that inward outward experience that
22:26
has happened within this group has I think is
22:29
to me the you know invaluable. One of the things
22:34
if you go to the AI for MN website is, and the
22:38
claim that's made there is very Star Trek -y
22:41
in my mind when I read it out loud, but I want
22:45
to say it anyway. It's boldly advancing Minnesota,
22:49
grounded in deep humanity. And I think as part
22:54
of that, and I've heard both of you speak to
22:56
this a little bit as well, is that... when you're
23:00
bringing this group of people together, you're
23:04
really trying to be representative of the entire
23:07
state. And then I think that you're even trying
23:10
to not just develop from, say, and if you're
23:15
familiar with Minnesota geography, the metro.
23:17
Twin Cities area. Neither of you really represent
23:22
the metro area of Minnesota, different parts
23:24
of the state. St. Cloud's a good sized city,
23:28
but Byron is rural out state Minnesota. You know,
23:32
and really, I think what you're trying to do
23:35
in the claim you make is design for the edges.
23:38
So is that part of it or what other types of
23:42
edges does that look like in practice? I think
23:47
you're hitting the nail on the head there, right?
23:50
We recognize that when we do design for the edges,
23:58
and I think Jen likes to call it the fringes
24:00
too, and that's a common word in this design
24:03
world, you are much likely to hit the mark. And
24:09
the state of Minnesota deserves to be at the
24:12
very least in the top five states. nationally
24:16
in education. Our education systems are strong.
24:21
And we we think when we design for the edges,
24:25
it will be even stronger. At least that's my
24:28
belief. So I don't know, Jen, what you would
24:31
add to that. Yeah, you know, I think it goes
24:34
back to even you think about like the Minnesota
24:38
report card and And this report card comes out
24:44
every year, and it's not as prevalent as it used
24:46
to be. But well -resourced districts were able
24:51
to do some amazing things. And I'm not saying
24:56
that, you know, no offense to them. I mean, that's
24:58
great. And some of these districts, they have
25:02
people who have people and they have just amazing
25:05
ways to do great things. And as I think of, you
25:09
know, where I sit as, you know, the small school
25:12
voice and we're still fairly large compared to,
25:15
you know, some of our more rural schools. You
25:18
know, that's not the same. Um, you know, and
25:21
right now for our school districts, you know,
25:24
there's a lot of budget cuts that are happening.
25:28
And so how do you, how do you progress the work?
25:31
How do you keep going under all of these different
25:34
constraints? And, and there's so many times even
25:37
working in the re working in the region here
25:40
in Southeast Minnesota, where sometimes these
25:43
things come through and they seem so unattainable
25:47
for small districts. that might not have a Donna
25:51
Roper or a Jen Hagna or Jeremy or David in their
25:55
districts. And so how do we progress everybody,
26:00
the kids down the road? And I think that's where
26:03
I feel that we have a real opportunity to collectively
26:08
work together and move everyone forward, even
26:12
though it might not be the perfect plan for,
26:15
you know, like every but at least everybody's
26:17
moving forward. And how can we connect and collaborate?
26:21
We say fiercely collaborate to really get that
26:26
work done. And whatever that looks like, you
26:29
know, that's what we're still uncovering and
26:31
more stories come out. And but that's that to
26:34
me is When I think about, you know, grounded
26:38
in, you know, deep humanity, we got to think
26:41
about the kids we serve, the districts, their
26:44
resources, so many other things that, you know,
26:47
and how do we, how do we bring everyone along,
26:50
not just, you know, those with, you know, more
26:54
people, more funds to do it, because it's not
26:57
going to wait for us. AI, that's probably the
26:59
biggest thing. AI is not waiting for us. and
27:02
it's progressing and these kids, their jobs are
27:05
going to look different. And how do we make sure
27:07
they're prepared for when they graduate? Prepared
27:11
for how to live in the world today. It's not
27:13
even really about graduation. How do we make
27:16
sure they're prepared for living in the world
27:17
that is today? Yeah, and I think that's definitely
27:22
something David and I relate to, especially from
27:24
the out -state perspective in the rural areas
27:26
like you talked about that are you know, underfunded
27:29
and, you know, don't have the capacity when it
27:33
comes to AI that many of the larger districts
27:35
around the state do. But one of the things that
27:39
I want to touch on here, as it relates to the
27:41
pillars that support that earlier statement here,
27:44
and one of them is responsible AI leadership.
27:48
And so my question is, what does that leadership
27:53
need to look like? Does it start at the top?
27:56
or is it something where it can be found in a
28:00
classroom teacher as well? Yeah, I would, well,
28:04
I'll answer first and then pass it to you, Jen,
28:06
because I think leadership is at every level,
28:08
right? The ones that are leading the change on
28:12
the front line, students and teachers, they're
28:14
leaders in a way, right? And I think responsible
28:18
leadership with AI is engagement. Everyone needs
28:23
to engage in the conversation. in the understanding,
28:27
growing your AI literacy fluency understanding.
28:30
Everyone needs to do that. That is responsible
28:33
leadership in my view. So whether you are the
28:38
superintendent or a learner in sixth grade, I'm
28:44
going to say we all have an obligation to like
28:48
build our collective AI literacy fluency understanding.
28:55
And that term, fierce collaboration, which is
28:59
one of Mengya's core values is not by mistake.
29:02
It is very intentional because it is going to
29:06
require us to collaborate across generation,
29:11
across job, role, task. You know, it's going
29:16
to require just a mindset of, you know, collaborating
29:22
as we go through this because that's really what
29:27
we're going to be going through in the next 5,
29:29
10 years, right? So. Responsible A leadership
29:33
is get engaged. Don't ignore where we're at.
29:38
As hard as it can be for some people, right?
29:41
Even for me, sometimes I'm just like, oh, I can't
29:44
even take it. Another new thing. This is mind
29:47
blowing, right? Just you just want everything
29:49
to slow down and stop for a minute and it isn't
29:51
going to do that for us. But we don't have to
29:54
own it. We don't have to know it alone. We have
29:57
to reach out to our collaborators and say, what
29:59
did you hear about that? We have ways to do this
30:04
together if we lean into that idea and just recognize
30:13
that leadership is all of us. I think Jen, I'm
30:18
going to direct you towards the next one here
30:20
and give you a chance to respond to that one
30:22
here. Professional empowerment. So what's the
30:26
difference between AI training and true professional
30:32
empowerment for educators? Yeah, well, I think
30:36
first of all, AI training is what you're doing
30:40
to your participants, right? So if you think
30:44
about a training that I've been in, there's really
30:48
not an opportunity to empower others to take
30:52
the leadership, to take on some of these things
30:56
that are super important. And let's face it,
30:58
leadership is probably one of the highest human
31:02
skills that a person can attain, judgment and
31:06
leadership. And whether you're a student, a staff
31:11
member, you can lead down, you can lead sideways,
31:16
and you can lead up. So there's so many times
31:19
where even listening to some of the teachers
31:23
in classrooms and sharing their stories and ideas
31:26
that they have, they have value. So I think that
31:29
when I think about professional empowerment,
31:33
it's that confidence. component, right? So sometimes,
31:38
you know, we need that beginner class just to
31:41
get people in. And yes, sometimes it does require
31:45
just a few little prompting techniques. But I
31:48
think you want to think about how you design
31:50
that to really get the understanding of the participant,
31:55
some sense making of the participant, ideas that
31:58
they have. And the biggest thing is what we've
32:02
noticed with AI is There's opportunities where
32:06
you can automate that part in your classroom
32:09
so that you can get to the stuff that really
32:11
matters like the one -on -ones or the small group
32:14
sessions with your kids or or you know visits
32:18
into classrooms or whatever that might be the
32:21
the more human side of our roles so I think that
32:26
you know and that takes some time you're not
32:29
going to go to a a one -hour PD session and be
32:33
like, I am empowered, necessarily. But it is
32:39
how you position it. I just did a session within
32:43
Byron just on our accommodations and modifications.
32:48
And one of the feedback pieces was I still feel
32:52
valued as a teacher. Well, if we're doing PD
32:55
that doesn't value the people that are going
32:58
to make all this work, then what is happening.
33:02
So training, yes, there can be training, but
33:05
we really need to think differently about how
33:07
we deliver opportunities for conversations, value
33:13
where people are. And I think that's what's empowering.
33:18
It's not just going to a training session on
33:21
prompting. I'm gonna throw you a little softball
33:24
and we'll get into the summit in just a little
33:28
bit here. So I don't want you to elaborate too
33:30
much yet, but the AI Thought Leaders Summit that
33:34
is coming up in St. Cloud in June, is it AI training
33:38
or is it a professional empowerment conference?
33:42
That is, I'll try not to go too far into it,
33:46
but. In my mind, it's all about human or professional
33:50
empowerment and recognizing that the 250 plus
33:55
people that will be in the room, we consider
33:58
leaders and wherever they are, in their journey
34:02
of AI, we value them and as they go back to their
34:08
homes or their organizations that they feel empowered
34:11
to take the next step, either within their classrooms,
34:15
within a conversation with a classroom down the
34:17
hall, whatever that might be. So thank you for
34:21
that softball. I appreciate it. So and Jen, just
34:26
a follow up to as you as in this is getting into
34:28
the human centered design piece of the pillars.
34:32
But what because of what you just mentioned there
34:35
with empowering people that are going to be part
34:38
of this event, but maybe in, you know, part of
34:41
other events or collaborators and things like
34:43
that. What is it that you think should that we
34:46
should make sure is never outsourced by AI? Well,
34:51
definitely human judgment. You know, that would
34:56
probably be the biggest one, especially especially
35:00
human judgment that impacts people. impacts,
35:05
you know, if it's one thing to decide, you know,
35:10
human judgment of whether I want to, you know,
35:13
a latte or, you know, black coffee cup, black
35:17
cup of coffee, right, like that. But if I'm if
35:20
there's something that actually is going to impact
35:22
people, that's something that I would never want
35:26
to to outsource. And sometimes you have to get,
35:29
you know, caught up in because even in my own
35:31
conversations, it's like, What am I actually
35:34
using AI as a thinking partner with versus like
35:37
how are they trying to you know? not they but
35:40
how how is it shaping what I'm thinking because
35:42
I always want to always want to take my own worth
35:45
and my own thoughts first before you know making
35:47
any kind of judgment plus my own experiences
35:50
things that you know have happened that Were
35:54
really great things and even those bad experiences,
35:57
you know, so that would be I was definitely say
35:59
human judgment for me Yeah Well, I would just
36:03
say, I would add judgment and I would say relationships,
36:06
right? How are we in relation with one another
36:10
and how we actually know each other? I think
36:15
we need to make sure that we are doing more of
36:17
that because as AI becomes more and more prevalent
36:22
in our lives, it is going to matter how how many
36:27
relations we are keeping. That's going to be
36:29
really important to just our humanity and our
36:32
health and our wellness. So I would like us to
36:35
see relationships as something we would not outsource
36:39
to AI. Yeah, and I think, like Jeremy said, we'll
36:44
get into the conference a little bit more, but
36:46
I think that that's one of the things that you'll
36:47
definitely see at your conference, too, is just
36:50
there is collaboration opportunities, and people
36:54
can talk with one another and kick around ideas,
36:56
and that's really great. As you start to look
36:59
at, so the fourth pillar here, the statewide
37:02
coherence and impact, as you look at Minnesota
37:06
broadly, and you know we have, you see a bunch
37:10
of different things going on in different areas
37:13
and interesting ideas that people are trying
37:16
with AI. What do you think statewide coherence
37:22
looks like being that we have so many different
37:25
things going on? And I wouldn't say, I don't
37:27
think personally, I don't think that, especially
37:29
with AI conversation, nothing really seems siloed.
37:32
I think everybody's been very open with the things
37:34
that they're trying and the things that they're
37:36
doing. So as you start to look at does it mean
37:40
that everybody's kind of doing a uniform style
37:46
of be it AI guidance or training or things like
37:49
that? Or how do you view coherence in that regard?
37:52
And maybe even drawing from some of the other
37:55
states that have more of a driven from the top
37:59
down state level to the various districts. But
38:03
speaking of Minnesota specifically, what does
38:05
that look like, do you think? the coherence statewide?
38:10
Well, for me, it's thinking about like, what
38:15
does it mean to prepare every learner in Minnesota
38:18
to be fluent, aware? And, you know, right now
38:25
I see like pockets, right? Pockets of great things
38:29
happening throughout the state, whether it's
38:33
K -12, higher ed, and industry. but there's pockets
38:38
of things not happening. And I'm fearful more
38:42
so for those folks that are not progressing or,
38:46
you know, are stuck, you know, because I have
38:51
grandchildren. They don't, they're not in the
38:52
district that I work with. And like, how do we
38:54
make sure that my grandkids are prepared or,
38:58
you know, my friend's kids or whomever that is.
39:01
And so, That is that to me is where the coherence
39:05
comes is you know, are there things that you
39:09
know could position us Signals that could better
39:13
position us. I know like MSBA has recently shared
39:17
their model policy Which is a great signal You
39:22
know the Department of Labor the US Department
39:25
of Labor has AI literacy Which is another good
39:29
signal, but it's still there there still are
39:34
fringes of folks that need that support might
39:38
not have be having those conversations. And I
39:40
think however that can happen to make sure every
39:45
you know, and how how can not just learn how
39:47
to use AI, but lead with AI. I don't know what
39:51
the workforce is going to look like. I honestly
39:53
don't and I can't even predict I used to be able
39:56
to predict things long time ago. Now I can't.
39:58
So like if we think about jobs, what are the
40:02
jobs of the future to be? Are they more entrepreneurial?
40:05
What are the opportunities for a kid in rural
40:08
Minnesota to come up with a new opportunity to
40:14
be able to make some money, raise a family? And
40:18
so that's kind of my thinking is how do we make
40:22
sure everybody's prepared, even those that might
40:25
not be well resourced, to be able to do that.
40:29
And Donna I was gonna ask you to it Along the
40:33
same same lines here with the statewide guidance.
40:36
Do you think that it's is there a benefit to
40:40
having a state -driven guidance or Is there like
40:45
for me? I kind of I do still really like the
40:48
idea of having it seems like With the different
40:51
areas doing stuff with AI or maybe even it's
40:54
a single district there's it seems like there's
40:56
a lot of innovation that happens because of that
40:58
and there are things that someone might try that
41:02
the rest of us can pick up on and benefit from.
41:05
Do you think that that can still stay that way
41:07
if we have a top -down approach? Let's say the
41:10
Minnesota Department of Education came up tomorrow
41:12
and said everybody's got to have this same policy
41:16
and things like that. Do you think that what
41:18
do you what's your opinion there as far as can
41:20
you do both or? Well, you know, I think if you
41:25
study how systems change, right, there are situations
41:31
where something coming from the top down makes
41:35
sense and would not hurt innovation per se, but
41:40
without it would hurt innovation, right? So like
41:43
when you think about safety, right? When you
41:46
think about things that... have less added value
41:51
at a local level that could be managed centrally
41:54
and bring great value. Those kinds of things
41:59
bring coherence without stopping innovation in
42:04
my mind. It's tricky though, right? Because it's
42:09
not, you know, oftentimes when we want to lead
42:12
from the top down, it's so... all or nothing.
42:16
It's everything or nothing, where it really needs
42:19
to be just some things, right? And not everything.
42:23
And so I'm trying to think of an example I could
42:25
give for that. That would make sense. Kind of
42:31
like the power standards. Right. Right. There's
42:34
a hundred billion standards. Responsibility to
42:39
help us be really clear, for example, on the
42:42
educational competencies, like that's Those are
42:45
things that I think, you know, can help us without
42:47
stopping innovation. But on the, on, you know,
42:51
answering this question about statewide coherence
42:53
and what I actually think will happen from the
42:55
summit or what I hope happens is that people
42:58
are going to come to the summit to have an experience
43:01
of this inward outward activity, so to speak.
43:05
This is going to be common language. It's going
43:08
to be a common experience. We have representatives
43:11
from all over the state, every corner of the
43:13
state, just about represented in this conference.
43:17
And in my systems change training at some point,
43:21
I learned a quote that just sticks with me and
43:24
I'm going to read it. So I say it exactly the
43:27
way it is because you'll appreciate this, I think.
43:32
And what it is is we kind of have a bifurcated
43:38
reality right now, right? We have people saying,
43:41
no AI, it's dangerous, it's bad, no technology
43:44
in the classroom, right? And we have people saying,
43:48
but we need to use these tools, right? And so
43:52
I think if we can understand that there are these
43:58
islands of coherence that are going to come from
44:01
the summit and through the tiny crack, of this
44:06
way or that way is going to be an opportunity
44:09
for us to build coherence across the state. And
44:14
so let me just find this quote briefly if I can
44:18
here. While you're finding that quote, I think
44:24
the signals it definitely helps, but I think
44:26
there needs to be flexibility. in how districts
44:31
are able to adopt, whether it be the policy,
44:36
which is a model policy, right? It's not in law
44:40
or anything like that. But it's interesting how
44:42
many districts have actually adopted that policy.
44:46
And so anytime that at the state level just kind
44:50
of points to the direction. I don't think that's
44:53
a bad thing. Give people the autonomy to decide
44:58
how they will get to the how to get to that direction.
45:03
But I do believe it would that. that would help
45:06
with some of that coherence. But I'm not all
45:09
about handing over all of these policies without
45:12
any mandates or dollars to help with them and
45:16
all that kind of stuff. But I do think it at
45:19
least shows that Minnesota is pointing in the
45:21
same direction. In Minnesota, all of our school
45:25
districts are numbered, right? And all of them
45:28
start with ISD. and of those three letters, it
45:33
tends to be the I that's most important in the
45:36
state and that's the independent part. Yeah.
45:40
So here's the quote. Small islands of coherence
45:43
in a sea of chaos have the capacity to lift the
45:47
entire system to a higher order. So we have pockets
45:52
of coherence that are going to come from having
45:57
common experiences. that are going to be, you
46:02
know, around the state in all corners, right?
46:05
That's my hope is that that's where the coherence
46:08
is going to really come from. Um but I will say
46:12
the policies are coming to the top down stuff
46:15
is going to come and need to be looked at and
46:20
thought well thought through and this is the
46:23
this is the thing is that it's easy to not not
46:25
want to do that. It's easy to just say, well,
46:28
let's just adopt the whole thing and then we're
46:29
covered kind of, right? And that's that's, you
46:33
know, unfortunately, that's going to happen,
46:39
but hopefully we will have enough pockets of
46:41
people that are willing to like sit thoughtfully
46:47
with with each of these. But again, you know,
46:51
safety. you know, everyone's going to agree on
46:54
the safety things. That's going to be easy, right?
46:58
There are going to be, there are going to be
46:59
pieces that everyone's going to be able to shake
47:01
their head and say, yep, absolutely. That makes
47:03
sense. Well, I would say, you know, the safety
47:06
things are going to be easy to say, but to articulate
47:10
and do like that's where the, you know, that's,
47:13
that can be challenges, challenging for, again,
47:16
districts with not a lot of resources. And, and
47:19
so, um, I would say it's easier to define, but
47:24
harder to maybe might be harder to implement
47:27
depending on what district you are. Well, I guess
47:31
I would agree with that. And hopefully the empowerment
47:34
and the agency that we're building through our
47:37
summit and through monthly conversations helps
47:40
us with that. Yeah. And it's those monthly conversations
47:44
I want to touch on here for just a moment. But
47:47
we'll make it brief here because AI for MN is
47:51
more than just a conference that's happening
47:53
at one point in a year. It's monthly meetings
47:56
that take place. from my vantage point that has
48:01
attended many of those meetings, and David and
48:03
I have actually the opportunity to share in one
48:06
part of the meeting a couple of months ago, they
48:10
operate differently than other network meetings
48:12
that I belong to. How would you describe kind
48:16
of their purpose, their flow, or what you choose
48:19
to focus on in those different meetings? Well,
48:23
you know, we always start with, you know, a voice
48:26
from Minnesota. So a practitioner, you know,
48:30
doing some amazing things. Usually it's like,
48:32
you know, to show what learning looks like in
48:35
the age of AI. And we've had folks from, you
48:39
know, higher ed share. And I think that that
48:42
is always it's like grounded in a story somewhere
48:46
in Minnesota, either in a classroom in a region.
48:49
I know you guys have done some things for us.
48:51
And it's, you know, really the storytelling of
48:54
of how this is starting to shape classrooms and
48:59
organizations in Minnesota. And then we usually
49:02
get into some conversations, somewhat facilitated
49:09
opening the door of that empowerment and sense
49:14
making. And then there's usually some kind of
49:17
a sprint where we're designing something, lots
49:20
of times using AI, most of the time using AI,
49:24
modeling AI. modeling AI that isn't working for
49:28
us. And I think that's the kind of the arc is,
49:32
you know, we start with a practitioner first,
49:35
have some conversations, breakout sessions, and
49:38
then, you know, in the end, design something
49:42
that either can be utilized for Minnesota or
49:45
for the self. And that's pretty much kind of
49:48
the same concept a little bit for the two day
49:51
summit. Did I miss anything? No, I can actually
49:55
see some of that here. But, you know, you've
49:57
also talked about how one of the neat things
50:00
about this organization is the bringing together
50:03
of K -12 higher ed and workplace industry. You
50:07
know, so if you were to say, like, if someone
50:10
were to ask, you know, like, what does higher
50:14
ed and industry not understand about AI when
50:17
it comes to the K -12 space, what would you try
50:19
to tell them? You know, I don't know if they
50:26
know what's actually happening. There's been
50:30
some pretty exciting stories of opportunities
50:35
that have happened. And sometimes I think K -12
50:39
gets this rap of like, oh, you can't go above
50:42
the bar. You can't like, here's your ceiling,
50:45
you know, and you just see all these pockets
50:48
of things, you know, going way beyond what anybody
50:51
even thought about. And so I would say that would
50:55
be one thing is not understanding what's happening
50:59
in K -12. I don't know. Do you have anything
51:02
to share? Yeah. Well, I would say, and I've said
51:06
this, that K -12 is sort of the epicenter of
51:09
everything because what happens right now in
51:14
K -12 is going to impact higher ed and workforce
51:19
in the next five years significantly. Right?
51:22
And so, you know, there is a common interest
51:28
if you're in higher ed or you're in workforce
51:31
to be in collaboration with K -12 and concerned
51:37
with how it's going to roll out because it's
51:42
going to have a direct impact. And you know,
51:46
it isn't the current workforce Jobs are not going
51:50
away quite like people say. I think there's tasks
51:54
that are definitely, you know, going away, but
51:58
still have quite a bit of human oversight. And
52:01
I really believe our our students in the K -12
52:05
space. I mean, they are the ones that are going
52:09
to really make make a big difference in how our
52:15
society evolves through this. intelligence revolution.
52:20
That's how I think about it. And I just think
52:24
that learning and teaching is really what we
52:31
do in K -12. In higher ed we research and we
52:35
teach, you know, and yes we do learning and teaching,
52:39
but workforce we do, you know, we don't... That's
52:45
not our core business, learning and teaching,
52:47
right? But yet that's what we're going to need
52:49
to do to re -skill and up -skill. So to me, I
52:52
think the K -12 level is the epicenter for me
52:59
with this AI movement. And I think it needs to
53:03
be for our kids and for our future. And I think,
53:08
like some of the application, the application
53:11
of AI, right? So some of the things that can
53:15
happen when you get past some of the cheating
53:20
conversations and you get into a place where
53:24
the teacher has their standards, they're checking
53:28
to make sure students are thinking, but the student
53:30
has this tool that could have more of an impact
53:35
not just on themselves but on their communities
53:38
and I think there's just an I don't know if that
53:44
would be my only question I don't know if higher
53:47
ed or workforce realize just how bright our stars
53:51
are in our k -12 classrooms and our in our teachers
53:55
to be able to do some amazing things And by the
54:00
way, they're going to need a lot of practice
54:02
at that stuff. Like that's also practicing a
54:05
lot of human skills that are just so critical.
54:08
But that's that would be my wonder is, is do
54:10
they know what is actually attainable? Because
54:14
for so long, it's been about test scores and
54:16
GPAs and all that other stuff, which by the way,
54:20
didn't serve for a lot of our brilliant students.
54:22
I think there's just a new opportunity of what's
54:26
attainable when when we get it right. So let's
54:31
take a little bit here to kind of preview the
54:34
upcoming summit. So this is the third annual
54:38
AI Thought Leaders Summit. And if you're listening
54:41
and you heard Mingaya and AI for Minnesota, you've
54:46
made the switch over to AI for Minnesota, right?
54:49
Just so that we're clear on that, but previously
54:52
Mingaya. It's scheduled for June 15th through
54:55
the 16th. It's at Apollo High School in St. Cloud.
54:59
So the first question about this is, who should
55:02
come to the summit and why? Well, I would say
55:09
anyone that represents K -12, higher ed, and
55:12
workforce and has an interest in preparing their
55:19
learners. for what's next, I think would be,
55:24
that would be my thought for sure. And if you're
55:27
a policymaker, this is the place for you to be.
55:31
There is no better learning for a policymaker
55:35
than this summit, in my view, to add on to those.
55:42
Yeah, and you had mentioned this to us as well,
55:45
but some of the, you'll have... folks from different
55:49
states, but also from bigger organizations like
55:52
Kosen and Keith Kruger will be in attendance
55:55
as well. And so it's a chance to connect all
55:58
those voices, which is really great. What do
56:00
you hope attendees leave with after that conference?
56:04
I hope I hope people come and they're empowered
56:07
and they have actionable ideas that they can
56:10
implement back in their organizations, whether
56:12
it's a classroom, a school, a district, higher
56:16
ed, workforce. workforce agencies. That's what
56:20
I would hope is because it's not just not just
56:23
a thought leader. We're not just coming to think,
56:26
but also also think about what we can do to improve
56:30
the experience back for the people we serve back
56:34
home. That's great. I hope they leave with a
56:38
lot of agency and energy and hope and make the
56:44
changes, know that the changes we need, they
56:47
they are the ones that can help us make them,
56:50
right? Everyone needs to feel that they have
56:53
a voice and an ability to move our education
56:57
system to the very best that it can be. And so
57:01
my hope is they leave with a really strong sense
57:04
of agency and hope and yeah. The only other thing
57:12
I wanted to add is, you know, day two is building
57:14
outward. And that's kind of where I get super
57:18
excited about that coherence piece is like, you
57:21
know, here we all are 250 plus of us representing
57:24
different organizations, different organizations.
57:27
And what are some common things as we think about
57:31
Minnesota and think about our own story that,
57:34
you know, could could help the whole, help the
57:38
whole state. And so that's something I'm super
57:40
excited about and getting those voices to be
57:43
part of that design. So and one of the things
57:48
too is you you know, the the core of the the
57:52
conference is You know, Minnesota folks, right
57:56
and those that are that are coming to the conference
57:58
from from Minnesota to offer insights and share
58:02
with others What about? You have two Featured
58:08
speakers at the event your spotlight speakers
58:11
Chris Agnew who's done some things with the Stanford
58:14
research that came out, and then Matthew Winters,
58:18
who Donna, you had mentioned, and works with
58:21
the Utah State and some of the things that they're
58:24
doing there. What was the choice? Why were those
58:27
two chosen or what were you hoping with that?
58:31
Well, I think our conference is leading learning
58:35
in the age of AI. Stanford has recently published
58:41
a lot of research of what does it mean to learn
58:46
in the age of AI. And I think sharing that strategy
58:50
or sharing those stories and that feedback is
58:53
super important so that as we go back and design,
58:59
instructionally design or design whatever it
59:01
is, that we really have a good understanding
59:03
of what does it mean to learn. There's been a
59:07
lot of things shifting. Back in the day, if I
59:10
had a power or a Google slideshow, that was an
59:14
artifact of learning. I think things are slowly
59:17
starting to shift and we have to think about
59:20
what is the current research? What is that base
59:23
and what does it look like? As we start implementing
59:27
tools and other things, what are the things we
59:30
need to make sure we want to adhere to or think
59:34
about? And yes, you could probably chat some
59:38
of this, but, you know, to hear what the research
59:41
actually says from researchers in the field,
59:43
I think is really important. And then Matt is
59:46
kind of, you know, the whole idea of a statewide
59:50
cohesive kind of model. And to hear what that
59:55
story looks like, they actually started with
59:57
human skills. They had a portrait of graduate,
1:00:00
like however many years ago, and now they have
1:00:03
the AI literate graduate, they have AI literate
1:00:08
teachers, they have AI literate workforce, and
1:00:11
maybe some other organizations. But it kind of
1:00:14
stemmed from the building of those human skills,
1:00:17
which are super important. And to just hear the
1:00:20
story, not that... We have to say that we want
1:00:25
Minnesota to copy exactly what Utah did, but
1:00:28
it is a story of statewide coherence that is
1:00:31
important to hear for the participants. Yeah,
1:00:35
and I think this conference as I look out the
1:00:38
the high level agenda for the day or each day
1:00:40
separately, right? But it follows a different
1:00:43
rhythm than that what I think you normally expect
1:00:46
in in a at least in an educational conference,
1:00:50
right? That there's time built in to help frame
1:00:53
what that day will look like To help explore
1:00:57
through different breakout sessions where where
1:01:00
you said you had over 70 different proposed sessions
1:01:04
which is really really awesome for a two -day
1:01:06
conference. Then a chance to converge and also
1:01:11
then to end the day and I like the term I know
1:01:15
Jen used it a sprint like a design sprint at
1:01:18
the end. So how does this framework for the summit
1:01:24
help produce more than just a conference focused
1:01:28
on, you know, new tools to explore or what's
1:01:32
a new idea, but rather, you know, maybe ways
1:01:36
to fully comprehend and apply the human centered
1:01:42
nature of AI. I'm going to do a short answer
1:01:46
and then let you talk about this, Jen, because
1:01:49
you've been working so much on making sure we
1:01:52
put together a really good experience for folks.
1:01:54
So this was the design of our first summit. It
1:01:57
was around action. And in order for a convening
1:02:02
of this sort to spur activity in our state, I
1:02:07
don't think there's any other or as likely to
1:02:13
succeed scenario than what I would say Jen and
1:02:17
the team that's building out the program have
1:02:19
put together. So, you know, we need action and
1:02:25
we need learning. We need action inspired by
1:02:28
the learning. And so to me, this is, you know,
1:02:31
going to be a beautiful event that helps us realize
1:02:34
some great activity afterwards. Yeah, I would
1:02:39
I would say, you know, that. If we go back to
1:02:43
human centered design, one of the strategies
1:02:45
is something called design thinking. And design
1:02:48
thinking starts with empathy. So instead of just
1:02:53
being in a place where it's like, oh, we just
1:02:56
need this, it's really starting with empathy.
1:02:59
And so while we're not doing a true design thinking
1:03:04
model, just because of the sheer not enough time
1:03:06
to do it, we are taking an approach. to make
1:03:10
sure that, you know, empathy is definitely part
1:03:13
of the experience, that we clearly define what
1:03:17
we need. And I think that too is, you know, sometimes
1:03:20
it's like, we need every student to be AI literate.
1:03:23
Well, who's responsible for that? You know, and
1:03:26
so really, really works through some things that,
1:03:29
you know, we're clear. And then the fun part,
1:03:32
ideating and prototyping, my goodness, like,
1:03:35
AI is awesome for some of those kinds of things.
1:03:38
and then coming up with some of the testing and
1:03:42
sharing these different ideas with each other
1:03:44
to get feedback. You can even do that with AI
1:03:47
too if you really wanted to. But I think that's
1:03:50
what I'm excited about with this approach is
1:03:52
it's taking the human -centered design approach,
1:03:56
not necessarily perfectly matched but darn near
1:04:00
a focus to it. and bringing that through line
1:04:03
on both days. And actually what you start with
1:04:07
on day one can be a great experience for the
1:04:10
final design on day two. Or if you're just coming
1:04:13
for day two, you'll still get that through line.
1:04:17
So I think that was the thing that our design
1:04:20
group has been working on is how can we make
1:04:23
it cohesive and very active and interactive.
1:04:30
Because too often there's a lot of times where
1:04:32
I've been to a conference and you just sit and
1:04:35
get and listen and you might have a couple of
1:04:38
of table talks, you know, which are great. But
1:04:41
that's where this is just going to be a little
1:04:44
different. We really want those ideas and opportunities
1:04:46
that we should be thinking about to come come
1:04:48
out in the conference or in the. Donna, Jen,
1:04:53
it's been great having you talk to us about all
1:04:56
these different concepts and about the work that
1:04:58
AI4MN is doing. Could you talk just briefly about
1:05:02
where folks can get the information for the event
1:05:06
and registration, the session breakdown, all
1:05:09
that type of thing? Sure. I would encourage anyone
1:05:13
in Minnesota or even the tri -state area to check
1:05:17
out AI4MN .org. That's AI, the number four. mn
1:05:21
.org. And there you can see all of our sessions
1:05:27
that have been published, the overview. You can
1:05:31
still register, so please join us. And I'm excited
1:05:35
for this opportunity and look forward to June
1:05:38
15th. All right, thanks again for joining us.
1:05:44
It's been great to have you on. For my part,
1:05:48
I'm super looking forward to the conference also.
1:05:50
I know David and I will both be there and we'll
1:05:51
both be presenting. Awesome. Thank you. Thanks.
1:05:56
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1:06:00
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