Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / The argument for a sampling program over paid Facebook ads & how to start a haircare company with Odele’s Co-Founder Lindsay Holden

Transcript

The argument for a sampling program over paid Facebook ads & how to start a haircare company with Odele’s Co-Founder Lindsay Holden · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  This is Lindsay Holden for Female Startup Club.
• 0:12
  Hey everyone, it's Dune here, your host and hype girl. If you're a long-term listener of the show and you get a lot out of these episodes, please do consider leaving us a cheeky five-star review in the Apple podcast app and sharing this on social media or with your friends. It obviously means a lot to me and it helps new ears find us, which keeps the lights on.
• 0:34
  In this episode, you'll hear my convo with Lindsay Holden, one of the three co-founders behind Odell. I learned so much in this episode when it comes to tips on launching into the likes of Target. We talk about how she pitched her manufacturer to get them to fund the entire development process, which blew my mind.
• 0:53
  why she chose a sampling program and shipped circa 5,000 samples out over performance marketing in the beginning, and the challenge that indie brands have when wanting to succeed in retail. Odell is a clean, inclusive, salon quality hair care brand that comes in beautiful packaging and is priced for the everyday consumer at $11.99.
• 1:15
  And before we jump into this episode, one last thing. By now you will know that the Hype Club has officially launched into beta. And if you're a woman building a CPG or D2C e-com brand and you don't want to do it alone, this is the community for you. Meet like-minded women building their brands like me and access mentorship from women like Lindsay to level up. Obviously, I'm biased, but this is so awesome and I cannot wait to see you in there. This is Lindsay for Female Startup Club.
• 1:46
  Lindsay, hi, hello. Welcome to the Female Startup Club podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here. I'm very excited to have you here. I always start by getting you to introduce yourself and tell us what your business actually is.
• 2:03
  Sure. My name is Lindsay Holden. I am one of the co-founders of Odell Beauty along with Shannon Carney and Britta Chatterjee. And Odell Beauty is a clean hair care line. We're available at Mass and it's meant, it's a line that's meant to meet your high standards as a consumer, but also enabled to share with whomever shares your shower.
• 2:25
  I love that. And I want to repeat the story that I was telling you before we actually pressed record. So for anyone listening, I have obviously been researching Odell. I was reading about the background of the story and I was like, gosh, this has actually happened to me recently. A few months ago, I was asking my friend who's very clued into beauty products and what we should be using and all that kind of stuff. And I always go to her as my resource for what I should be using.
• 2:52
  And I was like, what do I use for shampoo and conditioner? Like, what's the brand that doesn't cost, you know, $50 for a tiny little thing that runs out all the time? And so when I was reading about Adele, I was like, oh, this is for me. Like, I've experienced this problem. I want affordable, good quality hair care, but I want to be able to buy it in my supermarket. I want to be able to, like, get it off the shelves, like, really easily. Yeah.
• 3:17
  I mean, you explain it perfectly. I mean, we saw a white space, you know, to your point, we were looking at supermarket shelves, we were looking at mass, and we just couldn't understand why there wasn't something that addressed exactly what you're describing. To us, it felt like there were clean brands, but they were really expensive. There were salon quality brands, but they weren't clean. And then the truly like the few clean brands that were less expensive, like didn't meet our performance expectations. Yeah.
• 3:47
  And, you know, the result of this is like a very cluttered shower, you know, bottles everywhere. I'm a mom. I've got three kids in my shower. I had the fancy stuff for me, you know, the whatever kind for my husband and then the clean and safe stuff for my kids. And inevitably you turn around and your toddler is squeezing like your salon grade $50 bottle of shampoo and a boat to make bubbles. And so...
• 4:14
  Yeah, it was born from that need of just like, wait, I don't think that crazy good has to equal crazy expensive. And this is a space where I want that recipe. And so Odell was born. And you know what else I find funny about this is like, if you told someone at the beginning of this journey that you were creating a shampoo and conditioner brand, they'd be like, but why? It's so saturated. It's so noisy. There are so many options on the market.
• 4:43
  I bet a lot of women like me and like you have experienced this problem and it makes sense like in hindsight kind of thing, whereas in the beginning people would probably be like, but you're crazy.
• 4:55
  I know. I know it is. I mean, there are so many options out there. It is a really crowded space. And so, you know, we just really believed in this. And because I couldn't tell you why I was buying a really fancy salon kind for my hair, we set out to make that balance and hope that it would get noticed. Right. For that reason, it was important to us to keep the price point low.
• 5:16
  Yeah. Was it always hair care? I know you've just said you were looking in the supermarkets, you were thinking of building a mass focused brand, but was it always hair care? Yeah, it was hair care. I think for the reason of
• 5:31
  you know, the pain point of the high price point, but also thinking like we can do this for a lot less. We can make sure that we overinvest, you know, the proof is in the goop, right? And so that is where we started. I think it's also a much harder category to navigate. We saw differences between categories like hair is hair, right? It's like if you're using a men's shampoo versus a women's shampoo, a lot of times the difference is fragrances.
• 5:58
  And so we really wanted to make sure that the differences like we were leading with were benefit driven. We're based on like people's hair type and texture, not by their age, not by their gender, not by any other measure. It's what is your hair type? What is your texture? And then what are the common benefits thoughts?
• 6:15
  based on people who have those hair types and textures. And so we set out to develop that because we wanted to also simplify the process. Like we don't think you should need like a PhD to navigate like which shampoo is right for me. So we wanted to make a really kind of edited. Yeah, and it's something that you can tell right away. Is it working? Is it not working for me? And so we wanted to make that edited like, oh yes, this is why I'm using this one.
• 6:43
  And make that decision like quick and instantaneous, even if you're at the shelf in a store shopping for 10 other things. So totally. It was hair care. We do see legs in other categories. You know, we see, do you think about what's shareable, you know, kind of the most basic product? There was a lot of runway there, but hair, I think was the obvious place for us to start. I've got it. I've got it.
• 7:09
  And so if we think about where your story actually begins, where does the entrepreneurial kind of spark kick in for you? And when was that kind of decision to, you know, the three business partners are all going to join together and we're going to launch this brand. When was this happening? Yeah. Um, it's kind of, it was a really long time coming and then also like it happened really fast. So I say that I've always had the bug. I've always had the curiosity.
• 7:38
  Britta, one of my partners and I met about 12 years ago in business school, and we knew our skill sets were very complimentary. And we went on to each work for large corporations, gaining a ton of experience and awesome opportunities. But then five kids later, it's like, oh my God, it was a lot. And I think like I had a moment where I realized
• 8:05
  You know, my oldest was about to start kindergarten. My youngest was about to turn one. And I'm like, I want to be more present for this. And I want to remember like this.
• 8:15
  time. And, you know, I think the large corporation was never like a long-term goal or plan for me, like for the entirety of my career. And so there was always, you know, some churn. I think Britta and I, at one point actually were talking about starting and made moves to start a baby company for baby gear that looks good in your living room, as opposed to like big plastic, you know, there's been strides, but then we're like, then we need to have insurance to hold babies. But
• 8:42
  Anyway, it wasn't the right time, but I ended up leaving my corporate job and just taking a pause because there is no way I could be a mom of three while, you know, working 50 hours a week and figuring out what's next. And it was a few months into that, then Britta and Shannon, Britta met Shannon as a company she was consulting for. They took a company through a sale and it happened to be in the hair care space.
• 9:10
  And it was for a very, you know, it was for a natural hair care line. And we just kind of started looking at the category in total and moved really quickly when we felt like there was an opportunity for something that was premium performance, clean, long quality, really inclusive.
• 9:32
  to be made. And so within a few months, we started thinking about the execution of this brand, how we could bring it to life and hold the trigger. So 12 years, but really like a few months, you know, when we, when we had the idea and got excited about it and just started the ball rolling.
• 9:48
  And when you say you were in that like corporate career, your background, you were working for Target as a buyer, right? So you also had a lot of insights into where those potential white spaces and where those gaps in opportunities were. Yeah, I would say I was never in beauty. I was always a merchant. And I think you get...
• 10:09
  incredible experience looking at how do I continue to grow a bit this business that I'm running or that I'm driving as part of this bigger equation and so that yes 100 you look at a category and you say okay like how do we make meaningful change and keep building on what's working pull back on what's not but I love that about that job and so no matter the category I think it was great
• 10:38
  oh, okay, here's something that I feel like is not being addressed yet, but I really want it. And I think the benefit too is, you know, that's not always done for yourself, like as a consumer, depending on what it is you're buying or what role you have. But for Odell, it was so, it felt so natural and so easy because we're like, wait, I really want this. I can't find it. And so we went out and created it and it was, you know, a lot easier when you're the consumer as well.
• 11:07
  That's so true. Absolutely. It's like the product founder fit versus like market fit kind of thing. Totally. Totally.
• 11:16
  I read that you did, you know, circa 83 iterations of your formula until you landed on kind of like what you would go to launch with. And I'm wondering if you can share a little bit about those early days of developing the product and what kind of capital is needed in the hair care industry to get started. And I tweaked a moment ago. I tweaked.
• 11:38
  My ears sparked a moment ago when you said this industry is particularly hard to navigate. And so I'm wondering if that is kind of part of it. Sure. I mean, we love data. We love research. We took a look at like the whole population, right? We're like, what are the hair types and what percentage of people fall into each category? And so how people talk about their hair, is it fine, medium, coarse? Is it
• 12:07
  straight, wavy, curly, coily. And then what are the benefits that really people with those hair types seek? You know, everyone seeks moisture, but different levels, depending on how fine your hair is or how coarse, thirsty your hair may be. People seek frizz control. People seek volume, curl definition. And so we boiled it down to the most basic, right? Like what those key benefits were. And that's how we came up with, you can almost think of it on the spectrum of like,
• 12:36
  moisture, and like shape, right? So like volumizing regimens, smoothing regimens, and curl defining regimens. And, you know, we were lucky insofar as that Minneapolis is this little mecca for beauty. There's a lot of beauty brands that started there. And so when we were literally building this company over nap time, we had the benefit of like some of these
• 13:05
  Regardless of the category, we came, we found a manufacturer who was interested. And it was almost like, you know, it was a pitch. It was a sales pitch. And so we found a manufacturer. And a lot of times they have chemists on staff. And we sat down with them and we're like, listen, we have something here. We think we have interest. And here's what we would like to build. And it was almost their investment in us.
• 13:31
  to start to build these formulations against the objectives that we laid out. So we're like, for the volumizing line, we need it to address oil production and be very efficient at like, you know, have a lighter moisture load, not weigh hair down, and it's like the chemistry of it. And so we're like, here's our goal cost. Your other objectives like needs to be EU compliant. We need this to pass-derm testing. We need this to use 100% natural fragrance, and here's how it should perform.
• 14:00
  And so we started testing then their versions of the product objectives that we laid out. We then rolled it out to a larger group of people who also tested these versions and then a larger group of people. And then all of that feedback informed the iterations and got us to where we were today. But as far as capital for that, we didn't need any.
• 14:22
  And so our partner as the manufacturer, this was their investment in the hopes that this would come to fruition and we would get orders. And so like they're an equity partner, that's what you're saying. They're not an equity partner, but they have the promise of manufacturing, you know, should it become a reality and to them that business or then the agreed upon terms, you know, a few years, for example, was like their stake in it.
• 14:52
  that's a pretty good deal to have someone so committed to nailing this and being part of the journey. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I mean, we literally just hired our first person. So we're like, we've been the three of us founders since like day one. And a lot of what we've been able to accomplish is through incredible partnerships, contract support. And that's one great example of it.
• 15:16
  And just to dig one layer deeper for anyone listening, who's like, Hey, I want to do that. Did you set out with that intention of being like, we're only going to find a partner who's so committed to the cause that they're going to work through this process with us for the commitment of the future? Or did it just kind of happen like that? And what are the insights or the learnings that anyone else listening could potentially sponge from this conversation and take into their own? Yeah. Um, yeah.
• 15:45
  I think that was what you described was our optimal path. We are still small that a lot of the bigger guys aren't interested, right? And so we found kind of the right size partner at the right time in their business to capture their attention, you know? And it was like a reverse sell, just like you'd sell your product into a retailer. We were selling them on our opportunity, similar as like you go to investors, right? And so...
• 16:14
  I think that there's a lot of different ways that you can do it. You can get, if you want to own your formula out of the gates, you can work with a chemist who's free and then shop that formula around to different manufacturers who have different minimums in terms of what they're willing to produce. Because every time you kind of stop and start, that adds cost. And so I think there's a lot of factors to consider, like the volume you need made, you
• 16:40
  Do you want to own your formula out of the gates? Are you willing to partner with a certain manufacturer for a committed amount of time in order to not have that upfront investment? But they see a lot. They see a lot. And so it's really having that.
• 16:57
  selling that opportunity and, you know, believing in what you're doing and capture it. They were right there with you having that true conviction of what you could do. Yeah. And I mean, it's pretty crazy to me that you've only just hired your first full-time staff member because you guys are in like, you know, a thousand plus target stores at this point, something crazy as well as your D2C side. That's wild. Yeah. And I mean, I would say though, like we also didn't.
• 17:26
  You know, we launched a month before the pandemic. So we were there and we, you know, have all these plans. And then all of a sudden we're like, oh my God. Right. And so I think, you know, we're still working from our bedrooms, looking for some office space, but just figuring out like, what is this going to look like next? And I think that delayed our hiring, but it was, it was okay. Like we did, there's just so many great people out there who specialize in their
• 17:54
  fields of expertise and yeah, we made it work. Kept it lean. I love that. Yeah. Kept it lean. That's very lean. Well, I guess there are three of you as well. So it's actually, you know, that's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. I want to talk about the launch in that early time to understand what was really working for you in driving that initial momentum. And did you launch into Target or was that kind of as a result of your early momentum that they were like, okay,
• 18:24
  Yeah, no, we launched with Target. We launched into Target. And part of the equation of what I think makes Odell so successful is our price point. And we wanted to protect that low accessible price point at all costs. Our products are all $11.99. And we needed more volume in order to achieve it. And so we got that with being on Target shelves, right? Then we were able to kind of set with that volume as opposed to
• 18:53
  what I'm now learning too is a very slow growth, you know, for the D to C, at least in our experience. And so I think we really, you know, we're kind of old school in a lot of our marketing tactics. And I think we really, one, getting into Target's incredible. You know, they've got an incredible assortment and offering at store. And so that felt like a stamp of approval. But then once there, we also made sure we had
• 19:20
  our bottles themselves like make this beautiful brand block. It's like, okay, how can we get her to stop an aisle and pick us up? Right. And then once she picks us up, then how do we make it clear that like, this is great. This is a great option for you. And so everything from our packaging design, you know, and it was kind of a risk because it's very quiet in design. We made it look
• 19:44
  you know, we wanted it to look beautiful sitting in your home. People put so much into their homes. We're like design junkies. It's like, how can it look pretty in your shower? As opposed to something that, you know, screams at you for all the reasons to why to buy it on the shelf. And so I think like that helped, like our quiet design helped in terms of like getting it to pause. We really leaned into PR. We got some really awesome early accolades and mentions and supports from incredible publications, and,
• 20:11
  We started getting awards for items out of the gates. And I think, I mean, I'm of the firm belief that it's like, like I said before, like the proof is in the goop, like getting people to try it, like is our best way of like hooking them, getting people to continue to buy it. And so rolled out a sampling program or, I mean, just, I guess we invested in a bunch of
• 20:37
  minis, you know, and we sent them out to as many people as we could in like a beautiful box. And like how many? I think that was it. I think we did. Oh, my gosh. They're going to like check me later. But I want to say like.
• 20:53
  5,000 or something. You know, we made a lot of bots. But how do you even send out 5,000? Like, who are you sending 5,000 samples to? Well, I don't think we got through all of them. We got to finally do some donations. Like, where do you have a list of 5,000 names and addresses? That's a lot. Yeah. You know, we just ended up...
• 21:12
  It's constant outreach, right? And so I think like we started with friends and families, we're all about sharing, like sharing is in our name. Odell is our iteration on the Norwegian phrase, a deli, which means to share. And you should, you might, you may know this, right? So it's like, it's a shared, it's a shared product. It's a shared experience. And like, it's all about kind of like word of mouth. And I'd much rather you tell a friend about our product.
• 21:41
  set out, you know, starting close to home with these gifts. And we found some events of, you know, mom events, for example, put them in those bags. We, we said a lot of yes, right. Because it feels like a better investment than kind of some more of that, like paid ads or paid influencers. I'd rather a friend tell you about it or you hear about it, you know, based on how they used it. So a hundred percent.
• 22:10
  I read an article and I can't remember if it was you or perhaps Britta saying it, but either of you, one of you were talking about the struggle of indie beauty brands and the problems that they face in not being able to scale into retailers like Target. What does Target want to see? Like if you come to them and I know you have a background there. So of course you have a little bit more insight into how this works. But for those of us on the outside, if you come to Target and you say, Hey, I have this amazing product. It's
• 22:38
  you know, it fills this particular space that we've noticed you have on the shelves. It's the price point that's desirable for your customers. What do they want to see? And I mean, like, do they need to be like, hey, we need proof that you have the funding or the budget to be able to buy into inventory of 100,000 units? Or is it more negotiable or flexible? I'm kind of wondering what they actually ask for when brands come to them. Sure. I think it's important to know the cost of doing business.
• 23:08
  And that may be a harder part for some of the indie brands to scale. You know, there's a lot that goes into it. You know, we have a group that helps manage all the promotions, making sure our product gets there on time in the right place. And we support the promotions that they plan. We plan our own promotions. On top of it, all these things cost money, right? And so I think it's kind of familiarity with like how to be successful because the most important thing is making sure the shelf has product on it. And that's...
• 23:37
  Sometimes it's like harder than you want it to be. And I think ultimately though, it may depend on the merchant on the category, but it's how are you incremental to their offering, right? How does your brand support
• 23:54
  priorities that they may have for their total category, because they're always looking to make sure it's a balanced portfolio of brands that make it up. And so I think it's being able to articulate why you believe that's the case. It's knowing, you know, ultimately it's proof is in the sales and the velocity, right? Of course. But it's being able to make sure product gets on shelf and there's a lot behind ensuring your inbox as well.
• 24:21
  Got it. I have two follow-up questions to that. The first is, when you say you work with this team, is that like a team within Target or is that like a group that you go out and hire to manage the logistics for you? There's a third party involved usually. That's a middle man or woman to Target that helps you stay on track because there is a lot of
• 24:42
  information coming at you and requests. And so they help manage that. They handhold you through it. Yeah. And I think that saves a lot of time. It saves a lot of time to make sure that you're not dropping the ball because there's so many coming at you at all times.
• 24:57
  Yeah, gosh, I bet it's hard for me to even wrap my head around being stocked in a thousand stores and what that actually means in reality. I'm wondering when you say, you know, entrepreneurs need to understand like what the price of doing business is, not necessarily relating to you and your business and your situation, but just say like...
• 25:16
  Is there a ballpark number that you're like, hey, if you're looking to go into the likes of a Whole Foods or Target or one of these big box kind of retailers, what's the number that you need to be like, oh, I need to have this amount of money, you know, baseline per month ready to make these partnerships work? Yeah, that's really hard to answer. But I think because it depends on the category and the different margin expectations that each company.
• 25:44
  category entails. And you forget, it's like, what's really nice about these retailers is like, we get paid every time they're placing an order. So it starts to fund itself, if you have a solid business. And so that's the benefit. And I think it's just making sure it's like, okay, after, you know, there's my markup, right, there's the margin that I am offering our product to this retailer at, then what is the cost of
• 26:12
  the firm that's helping me manage the business? What's the cost of the promotions based on the frequency? Are they asking me for support in terms of education of their staff or do they want sampling programs? Do we need to help pay for POP on shelf? And so those are all little things that add up. And I think like, it's always great to,
• 26:35
  I found like the peer network, which I'm talking to you, you know, female startup club here, but like the peer network is such a wonderful resource. So finding somebody who may be in your category who can tell you and help you. And there's so many resources for you to then build like, okay, this is what it would feel like. And for us, we ended up raising capital to mostly just support our first inventory buy. Yeah.
• 27:00
  And so in our first round to set the shelves and then once that was in and then we started getting paid, like it's become more of a self-sufficient cycle.
• 27:12
  Got it. And because that's something that I, I mean, we talk about this often on the show, one of the biggest challenges in the CPG space and like FMG products is that you need the working capital to be able to keep that growing. But does that mean for you, it sounds like maybe you're not going to take the path of constant VC funding and you're taking the path of you raised initially, and then you might be good to go. Yeah, I think, you know, we've taken out a loan to help with. For example, first year we started in a thousand doors, now we're in
• 27:42
  1800 doors. And so again, to like, to leverage that in order for that bulk up. But yeah, I think like, we're not ready for that yet. You know, we see money just yet. I think we see so much more potential for growth, just like on the path that we're currently on. And it may be a time where it feels better when we're okay, like we've done, we're the, we're the like, needing to scale down the road, you know, with,
• 28:12
  more with more experts kind of in the business of scaling and more money and marketing and those kinds of decisions. So I think it's not an if, it's like, oh, it's a when and we don't really feel it yet.
• 28:25
  Yeah. And also, I guess like that's a great position to be in for you because it means you can retain more equity. You can go to these partners with a lot more leverage and credibility and proof that what you're doing has the potential to be really, really big and at a huge scale. Yeah, exactly. Oh, gosh, that's so cool. I want to know if there's someone listening who's in the hair care industry or in the personal care industry. Yeah.
• 28:51
  Are there any kind of critical to-dos and critical not to-dos, i.e. don't waste your time on this or waste your money on this, in the very beginning that you could kind of like put out there based on your own experience? Yeah. I mean, I've seen so many paths. It's so interesting to like look at other brands who may have started at the same time we did, and they look completely differently and they're like they're killing it.
• 29:17
  I think reviews are so important. And back to like my comment on sampling, like just getting your product out in the hands. I don't think you need to pay people to talk about your product. I think it's like, I think like just fostering and investing in like those authentic connections, those authentic relationships.
• 29:33
  sampling, you know, just focusing on reviews, because it does matter so much what other people are saying. And that's kind of that gut check, right? When people go and look and find you online, they're like, what are the stars? You know, how does this work? Yeah, totally. So I definitely think that that is super important.
• 29:53
  I think it's like, you know, be kind to yourself along the journey. There's just so many ideas and so many paths to take and it's impossible to do them all well at the same time. So it's OK to take your time like as you're as you're scaling and growing. But you're never going to feel completely ready. You just kind of have to start. Right. And then one thing begets the next. And like you.
• 30:17
  I would also advise, I mean, talk to people. I'm a collector of information. I've learned so much. And like, whenever you feel stuck, just reach out to a peer. And so many people are like, so willing to share what their experiences have been, what worked for them, what didn't work for them. And, you know, oh, reach out to this person when it comes to, hey, you know, it's been wonderful, like a wonderful community. So I would say also take advantage of that.
• 30:45
  Totally. I, um, when this episode actually comes out, it'll, it'll have already launched because it launches on Monday, but we, we've been working towards building our private network and community for women who are building indie CPG brands and to do all of those things that you're saying, like firstly, you know, build the network of people who are at the similar sort of phases you and who are going to be that next wave of really exciting brands in the industry.
• 31:12
  And two, to be able to access mentorship from women like you on the show to ask those specific questions that are kind of like not public information, but are able to be shared in a more private setting. And it just comes up so often on the show how important it is to have founders around you and how important it is to be able to ask the question that you just need to solve in that particular moment to get from A to B.
• 31:36
  Because, you know, you could spend days or hours or months trying to figure something out and what's the best direction here? Or you could just ask someone and be like, what's your general approach here? And they could be like, oh, it's just one, two, three, and then you're good to go. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 31:53
  Exactly. I'm so with you. I'm so with you. Always take the opportunity to plug the Hype Club, which is a logic really soon. Congrats to you. That's exciting. Thank you. We'll have to have you in there as one of our modern mentors. Of course. We finish every episode with a series of six quick questions, but always love to kind of get a sense of where the business is today. What fun, exciting things you want to shout about? What's top of mind at the moment for what's going on?
• 32:22
  there's always so many things going on. I mean, business is great. We're still exclusive with Target. You know, we're learning a lot about what it means to also be a D2C brand. And so I'm really excited for some new development that we'll be launching later this year. I mean, can't share too much, but maybe, you know, addressing other parts of your body.
• 32:47
  But also kind of unique reasons to also purchase on Adele Beauty. And so much of it is based on consumer feedback that we've heard so far. And so a handful of new products coming out. I mean, we're looking for office space so we can actually be together and collaborate. Damn pandemic. Yeah, we're in a good spot. It's so important to try to remember the journey.
• 33:13
  You know, as well as like where you're trying to go, because I've enjoyed it immensely. But I also have to remind myself sometimes like, no, this is enjoy this. This is totally about the day to day. You've got to enjoy the journey or else it's just not worth it. I don't think. Yeah.
• 33:31
  Yeah, gosh, it's really tough to get caught up in that, like working towards the goal, working towards the goal. But really, if you're enjoying the day to day, then you've already won. You've already hit the goal because you've created your dreams reality. Yeah, yeah, it's fun. It's ironic that we're like, okay, you know, we're going to do this. So it's more on our own time. And it's certainly on our own time. It's not less time. But there's a little more flexibility to that time when it's your own business. Yeah.
• 33:59
  For sure. Okay. Let's get started with the six quick questions. Some of which we might've already covered, but I asked them all the same at the end of every episode. Sure. So question number one is what's your why? Why do you do what you do? My kids. It's, you know, my kids. I make shampoo according to them. That's so cute. You know, I think they're some of my best sales people, but I think
• 34:28
  I don't know how to give anything less than 100%. And at the end of the day, I'm now grateful that it's something that I'm also, you know, building on my own terms, because it comes at the cost of spending that time with my family. But at the same time, I realized pretty quickly, like, I'm not good at spending 100% of my time. I also need my own kind of beef in the background, but it's for my family.
• 34:51
  Love that. Question number two is what do you think has been the number one marketing moment that's made the business pop so far? I mean, it's been such a collective burn, you know, like I don't know if I can put my finger on one thing. We've definitely
• 35:15
  I think, you know, being on shelf at Target has been incredible in terms of discovery. And they did an awesome job staying open this past year, which also helps with discovery because of the ways they were able to flex, fulfill orders and stay, frankly, stay open, you know, during the pandemic.
• 35:33
  But I really think it's a lot of like the PR accolades and support. We won like a Beacon Award for Best New Beauty Brand from Beauty Independent, which was awesome. And then I mean, the Today Show, we definitely see some pops. We were featured on there twice, which was awesome and really, really fun.
• 35:54
  Gosh, that's amazing. That's a lot of moments. I know. I was like, I don't know if it's just one, but it's really good ones. We just, I think, you know, like the consumer has to see your brand like seven, eight times right before trial. And so it's kind of being scrappy with how and where we can show up and sneak into the awareness zone. And that's been fun, but I think it's like a lot of the little efforts that add up to the
• 36:21
  the trial. Totally. That compound effect. Question number three is where do you hang out to get smarter? What are you reading or listening to or subscribing to that others would benefit from knowing about? I think fellow founders. I love the how I built this. I now have,
• 36:41
  a peer group of friends where you just call or text and be like, wait, who, you know, what are you, how are you handling this for paid search? Or what do you think is the right spend for that? You know, I think that's been the most valuable space for me, just to hear about people's experiences who are going through the similar challenges and more opportunities at the same time, or a little bit ahead. 100%. I'm so there with you on that.
• 37:08
  Question number four is how do you win the day? What are your AM or PM rituals that keep you feeling happy and successful and motivated? Oh, I think it's honestly like being just a reminder to be kind to yourself. I think we can be our own worst critics and that's just not productive. And so it is like a mental like note, like, it's okay. I didn't get to this or it's okay. That might,
• 37:36
  inbox is a little way too full right now. It's a like, I think, yeah, it's being, it's being kind to yourself and not being up on yourself for what you had yet to address. Cause you'll do it tomorrow. Some days you're going to be in the weeds someday. And if that gives you energy, great. Some days you're going to have to, you have to wear so many hats. Like some days you get to be strategic and talking to people and that, you know, I think like you kind of have to do it all. And some days are better than others, but, um, it's,
• 38:06
  It's just remembering to be nice to yourself in the process. That's so true. Question number five is if you were given $1,000 of no strings attached grant money, where would you spend that in the business?
• 38:22
  Sampling, handing out free product. I think. Counting the pavement. Just get it. Yeah. Literally pounding the pavement. I think that's, and then hopefully asking them to talk about it. If you're so inclined, we'd love a review or, you know, tell your friends. But I think, I think with the thousand dollars, that's probably money well spent. Amazing. And last question, question number six is how do you deal with failure? What's your mindset and approach when things don't go to plan?
• 38:52
  I think just learning from it, right? And acknowledging it and moving on. I think, you know, you making sure it informs your decisions moving forward, but I just not dwelling on what you can't control and really just controlling the controllables moving forward. Because all these experiences are what collectively led you to where you are today and what you can do and impact moving forward. So I think it's definitely part of the process.
• 39:21
  I love that. So true. Lindsay, this was so awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show and share all the ins and outs. I really loved learning about, you know, more of the target side of things and how that, how that really comes together. So thank you so much. Yes, of course. And I hope you come to the UK and the rest of the world. Me too. Me too. All in good time. Thank you so much. This was lovely.
• 39:51
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 40:15
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 40:38
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that. Thank you.
• 40:54
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 41:19
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 41:41
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.