Latest / Karl and Crew / Preparing Your Child’s Faith for College with Dr. Jonathan Morrow & Taking the Gospel Across the Street and the World with Dr. Samuel Naaman

Transcript

Preparing Your Child’s Faith for College with Dr. Jonathan Morrow & Taking the Gospel Across the Street and the World with Dr. Samuel Naaman · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced God, overcome
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  S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
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  S1: the truth daily.
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  S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
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  S2: and you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S2: that would make it worth it.
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  S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
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  S3: the life source, which is God.
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  S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
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  S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and Crew.
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  S2: It is back to school week, free and Freedom Friday.
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  S2: Oh boy. It has been such a great, great week.
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  S2: It has so many great professors who have given up
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  S2: their given up time from their busy schedules to to
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  S2: really help teach some of these lessons. And I've really,
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  S2: really loved it. We've talked a lot about the parables.
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  S2: We've talked about those school memories. You know, one of
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  S2: the school memories that brings both excitement, but also some
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  S2: maybe a little bit of pain is there's something that
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  S2: starts to happen in the high school years that depending
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  S2: on where you find yourself, can evoke a myriad of emotions. Okay. Okay.
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  S2: So I want you to think of all of the
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  S2: ways just in high school alone that people start to
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  S2: be separated, for example. I don't know if this is
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  S2: how it happens in real life, because I never made
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  S2: a sports team this way. But on TV, they always have,
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  S2: you know, the TV show, you always go and you
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  S2: check the list on the wall or on the coaches door.
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  S2: And you look and you you're running your finger down
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  S2: to see is my name on the list. So sports teams, yes,
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  S2: you go from my kids elementary school had no cuts.
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  S2: So nobody. And hey, I'm.
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  S3: I mean, I think in elementary school it's.
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  S4: Pretty.
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  S3: Reasonable. I was the same way with my sports.
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  S2: So nobody got cut. But then once you get to
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  S2: high school, people get cut. Yes. Yes. Not everybody makes
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  S2: the basketball team. Not everybody makes the cheerleading squad. So
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  S2: there's that sometimes painful process of finding yourself. Not on
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  S2: the list. Right. The school play.
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  S4: Yes. Number one.
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  S2: You try out. Some people make the play. Some people don't.
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  S2: I remember running for student government and they have a
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  S2: vote and they come on the loudspeaker, you know, like
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  S2: the intercom.
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  S3: System.
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  S2: Where you hear that little crackling noise and, you know,
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  S2: an announcement is coming. They're going to call somebody down
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  S2: to the office or, and they. And they started announcing
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  S2: who has won the student elections. And you wait and
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  S2: you see if your name gets called and if your
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  S2: name doesn't. I was grateful to have gotten elected for
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  S2: student government. National Honor Society is another one. I mean,
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  S2: think about it. When I really started thinking about this,
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  S2: I'm like, man, this gets this gets kind of brutal.
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  S2: If you are not a high performing athlete or academic
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  S2: or theater, what do you say? What did you have
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  S2: experiences where you were either made it or you didn't?
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  S2: Did you ever have to go through that?
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  S3: Yeah, totally. Uh, volleyball in middle school, I tried out
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  S3: for and there was cuts in that. And so I
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  S3: remember I was very excited about it. I thought I
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  S3: did really well in the practice. I was like, I
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  S3: think I crushed it. And so we went home a
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  S3: day later or whatever the the the sheet pops up online. So,
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  S3: you know, my dad's going to the website and looking
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  S3: it up and we start reading through all the names
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  S3: and mine's not there. And that was really tough. Tough
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  S3: to be like, oh man, I really thought I crushed this.
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  S3: How am I not making it to the next round of,
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  S3: of tryouts? And, and it does. I mean, it hurts
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  S3: a little bit. Of course, there's I mean, that's the
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  S3: way the world works. And so, but it's kind of
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  S3: the first time processing those emotions of like, not everybody
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  S3: gets everything.
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  S2: Everybody gets. Right. What are you about you?
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  S4: I, I think for mine, it was like the student
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  S4: government sort of situations. I mean, right, trying out a
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  S4: lot for plays. Maybe I didn't get the part so
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  S4: much I wanted, but I was still in it. So
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  S4: I was like, okay, you know, kind of check that
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  S4: one off. But I went out for a couple government
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  S4: student governments and didn't make it. And I was like, mm,
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  S4: it hurts, it hurts. It was absolutely, it was like, really?
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  S4: But you know, you're thinking like, really? Come on, you know,
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  S4: you know, back at it.
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  S2: To this day, I still remember the words that I
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  S2: misspelled that got me eliminated from the spelling bee. Still
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  S2: remember it? Oh, this I can't, I. This has been decades. Decades.
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  S2: I went and I did this spelling bee. I was
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  S2: dressed up. This was like. I think this was sixth grade.
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  S2: I had on a blazer, like a full on blazer.
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  S4: I remember the middle school. Middle school. Spelling bees.
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  S2: Special outfit. I show up, we had to drive to
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  S2: some other location for this particular round of the spelling bee.
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  S3: It was a big deal.
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  S2: I kid you not. They start going through the the
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  S2: the words everybody else gets words like this is round one.
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  S2: And it was you got it was a double. You
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  S2: got to miss two words. Okay. Round one comes. Words
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  S2: are like the buttermilk. Someone got buttermilk.
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  S3: Oh my goodness.
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  S2: They're getting words like buttermilk. Um. Fish school comes to me.
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  S2: Your word is shoal.
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  S4: What?
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  S2: I step up and I say, SHOLELA long strike one.
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  S3: Come on.
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  S2: Sit back.
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  S4: Down.
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  S2: Sit back down in my seat. Like, okay, it's all right.
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  S2: I got another round to come. Words keep going on.
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  S2: I'm computer. Then round two comes to me. Your word desecrate.
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  S4: Good grief.
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  S2: To this date, 25 plus years later. Desecrate DESSICRATE desecrate.
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  S4: OLE my heart. You're taking me back.
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  S3: That's so.
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  S4: Funny. I'm watching you live. You know what?
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  S2: I'm taking myself.
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  S4: There.
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  S2: I remember the pink blazer and my mom had sewn it.
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  S2: She sewed cuffs that when I turned the blazer and, like,
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  S2: rolled up the cuffs to be chic, it was a
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  S2: different checked print.
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  S4: Ellie.
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  S3: That's awesome.
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  S2: So desecrate. I switched out the I and the E.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S2: Desecrate is DESEE. Check me on that. I don't want
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  S2: to get it twice. I might not survive that trauma.
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  S2: I was the first one eliminated in this spelling bee.
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  S4: That's hard. Oh, man.
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  S2: I went I tried to sit down in the seat
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  S2: because my whole family had driven like 30 minutes away
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  S2: from our hometown to go and watch me in the
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  S2: spelling bee. I tried to sit down. I was so
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  S2: overcome with emotion I couldn't even stay and sit and
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  S2: watch the rest of the spelling bee. I made a
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  S2: beeline to the largest stall in the bathroom. I bawled
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  S2: my eyes out.
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  S3: Yeah, I understand that at that age, absolutely.
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  S4: Right.
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  S3: 100%.
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  S2: I mean, I was devastated, not desecrated, devastated. I felt
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  S2: like I had been robbed in the worst possible way.
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  S2: How could they have given me such hard words when
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  S2: everybody got easy? I felt like a failure. I had
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  S2: been eliminated. I did not win. Not only did I
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  S2: not win, I was the first one out.
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  S3: Oh.
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  S4: I'm sorry.
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  S2: Wow. It's Diana.
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  S3: Diana.
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  S2: It's okay. Mercy.
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  S4: I have.
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  S3: Your life has gone pretty okay after the spelling bee.
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  S4: Yeah.
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  S3: Didn't all fall apart there.
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  S4: She just took me there, and I'm like, oh.
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  S3: I know you're a.
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  S4: Mom.
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  S2: But isn't it wild, though? Because yes, I went on
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  S2: and did other things. I never in my life won
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  S2: a spelling bee, by the way. That was never my gifting,
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  S2: but I made, I got cut and made plays. I
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  S2: made sports teams, you know?
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  S3: Yeah. You make some things. You don't make other things.
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  S3: It's okay.
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  S2: But I still remember it.
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  S3: Well, I was gonna say, when you're a kid, it
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  S3: all feels like the end of the world. Like if
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  S3: you put me in a spelling bee now and I
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  S3: was the first one out, I would be just as embarrassed, like,
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  S3: you know, like I would be like, that would stink.
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  S3: But there's probably even a greater thing when you're a
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  S3: kid because it's the first kind of experience with that.
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  S3: And so it all feels like the end of the world.
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  S2: Regular and honors and AP classes. Thank you. 2184. Just
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  S2: texted in. Yeah, that's another one that starts to separate
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  S2: people out.
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  S4: Yes.
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  S3: Absolutely.
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  S2: And so there's a part of us that longs for
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  S2: a kind of everyone gets a prize.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S2: But if you notice though, that people that people hate
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  S2: that too.
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  S3: Yeah, absolutely. Well, there's a thing that, yes, it softens
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  S3: the blow of not of because there's two sides of this.
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  S3: There's the what's it, the, the glory of victory and
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  S3: the agony of defeat. They say in sports, there's, there's
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  S3: two different sides of the thing. Yeah. It does really
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  S3: hurt when you don't make the thing. But it's also
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  S3: really incredible when you do or when you win. And
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  S3: so yes, there's. Yeah, of course, it softens the blow
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  S3: of not making the thing when everyone gets a trophy,
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  S3: but it also lessens the amazing feeling of winning something.
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  S2: Yeah. And so we are hard wired because of these
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  S2: kind of experiences to look at things like merit, like effort, talent.
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  S2: And we develop sort of a system of moving through
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  S2: life that says, if I work hard enough, I can
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  S2: make the team. If I earn it, I should get
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  S2: the promotion. We feel robbed if we don't. Interesting thing
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  S2: about the Kingdom of God though. You know, we talk
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  S2: about the upside down kingdom. Two things are true. It
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  S2: is absolutely not the case that everybody gets a prize.
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  S2: Everybody gets a trophy. Everybody makes the team. No. But
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  S2: the other part of it, the beautiful part of it,
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  S2: is it has nothing to do with merit, with intellect,
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  S2: with athletic ability. It is not the case that the
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  S2: the prettiest girl makes the court the homecoming court. Don't
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  S2: even get me started on homecoming, homecoming and prom.
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  S4: Court. Another good example.
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  S2: The people paraded up front were the popular.
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  S4: Yeah, pretty.
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  S2: People and the rest of us sat back going, man,
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  S2: I wish I could be like that. No no, no,
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  S2: not so in the kingdom of heaven. Remember we talked
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  S2: about the last being first and the first being last.
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  S2: The kingdom of heaven is not like high school, except
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  S2: for the fact that it is very true. And it
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  S2: is clear throughout Scripture that there is a in and
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  S2: an out. Yeah. And Jesus could not have been more
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  S2: clear about it.
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  S3: Everyone's allowed in, but there's an in, in and out.
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  S2: But there's an in, in and out. Not everybody makes
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  S2: the cut, right?
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  S3: Yep.
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  S2: So let's talk about that coming up.
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  S1: It's Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
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  S2: Well, we have all felt the sting of rejection. And
• 11:50
  S2: boy oh, boy, a lot of it happens in high
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  S2: school because you made the team or you didn't. You
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  S2: made the play or you didn't. You were chosen for
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  S2: that special position or you weren't. When we look at
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  S2: Jesus parables, there are at least ten parables that emphasize
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  S2: that judgment is coming and that there will be a separation.
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  S4: Right.
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  S2: There's no getting away from this. And I will be
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  S2: honest with you, I wrestled with this last night because
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  S2: this is not a fun topic to talk about.
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  S4: No it's not. I was that other person. You know,
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  S4: there's always that other side.
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  S2: But when we look and we're I'm just going to
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  S2: give you just a couple of these parables where we
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  S2: see Sheep separated from goats and wheat separated from weeds.
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  S2: We see ten virgins. Five had oil and were prepared,
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  S2: five were not. We see wedding guests who were welcomed
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  S2: in and those who were excluded. Wicked versus righteous. Faithful
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  S2: versus unfaithful. Prepared versus unprepared. It's a theme. It's unmistakable.
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  S2: Jesus wanted to make it really pretty plain, very clear.
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  S2: So coming up, I'm going to focus in on one
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  S2: of these parables that deals with and. Too bad Karl's
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  S2: not here from this for this one, because as a
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  S2: former commercial fisherman, he would have helped me on this.
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  S2: But I'm going to try to tackle the good and
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  S2: the bad fish without him coming up.
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  S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to Carl and Crew.
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  S2: Many of Jesus's parables center on this theme of coming judgment,
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  S2: of a time where there will be a separation. It's unmistakable.
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  S2: And I want to take you to just one of
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  S2: those parables. One that maybe I don't know doesn't get
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  S2: talked about as much. It's in Matthew 13. It's the
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  S2: parable of the net. Anyone know the parable of the net?
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  S3: Parable of the net? The parable not by. Not by
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  S3: its title.
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  S2: This is this is the heading that's put in by
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  S2: in the ESV Bible that I'm reading from. So this
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  S2: is Matthew 1347. It says again, the kingdom of heaven
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  S2: is like a net that was thrown into the sea
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  S2: and gathered fish of every kind. When it was full,
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  S2: men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the
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  S2: good into containers and threw away the bad. So it
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  S2: will be at the end of the age. The angels
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  S2: will come out and separate the evil from the righteous
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  S2: and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place
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  S2: there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. I want
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  S2: to reiterate, when I sat with this last night, I
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  S2: tried to. I tried to pick a different parable than
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  S2: one of these. Not because I don't love the Word
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  S2: of God, but because who wants to talk about the
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  S2: fiery furnace and weeping and gnashing of teeth?
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  S3: Yeah, it's not fun to talk about.
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  S2: Not fun to talk about, but I didn't. When you
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  S2: look at the parables, to not address this reality would
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  S2: be to me, not faithful to the Word of God.
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  S3: Correct?
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  S2: That's ultimately what I felt like, the conviction.
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  S3: I mean, Jesus felt it important enough to conversate about
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  S3: quite a bit.
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  S2: Quite a bit. Just ran down a list for you.
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  S2: Sheep versus goats. Wheats versus weeds. The virgins who were
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  S2: prepared versus the ones who were not, the wedding guests
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  S2: who were invited in versus the one who were excluded.
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  S2: And that's just a couple of them. The takeaway for
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  S2: all of them being there, there are there's a division
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  S2: line that's coming. There's a separation that's unavoidable. And it
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  S2: has nothing to do with those same qualifications that put
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  S2: you at the top or the bottom of the high
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  S2: school food chain. It's not about being the most successful,
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  S2: the most popular, the most talented, attractive. All of those
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  S2: things don't matter. Which is the great irony because we
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  S2: spend so much time fixated on those things. How much
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  S2: money can I earn? How many titles can I achieve?
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  S2: It really comes down to do you know him or not. Jonathan,
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  S2: I want you to pull up Romans 517 for me.
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  S3: Okay.
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  S2: As we talk about this, because it's wicked or righteous,
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  S2: it's faithful or unfaithful, it's prepared or unprepared, and there's
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  S2: nothing in between. And I think that we live in
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  S2: a culture, especially in the Western culture, where we don't
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  S2: like to talk about this. And a lot of people
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  S2: would rather there be sort of a mushy middle. Well,
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  S2: I mean, I'm a I'm a pretty good person. Yeah.
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  S2: I'm better than most.
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  S3: Can't I just be okay enough?
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  S2: I wouldn't really say. I mean, I wouldn't consider myself
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  S2: like a follower of Jesus, but I'm definitely spiritual and
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  S2: open to spiritual things.
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  S4: Yeah. I'm so nice and kind in conversation.
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  S2: People automatically like to create a middle zone where. Yeah,
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  S2: I mean, I'm not I don't know if I can
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  S2: really go all in with you over there on that,
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  S2: but like.
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  S3: I try to do good and help.
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  S4: People.
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  S2: Yeah, you know, I give to charity.
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  S4: Yeah. I say kind nice. Hey, you.
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  S2: Know, I, you know, I want to I remember there's a,
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  S2: there's an associate I should, I would say I want
• 17:36
  S2: to be careful, but this is somebody who I would
• 17:38
  S2: spend time with from time to time. And it was
• 17:41
  S2: our kids were into some of the same kinds of things. And,
• 17:45
  S2: and so she would often talk about, you know, I
• 17:48
  S2: want to raise kids who are good, good, good kids
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  S2: who are they're happy, they're successful in life. And they,
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  S2: you know, they add value. And so there was a
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  S2: lot of language that would, that was close, but it
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  S2: was like, it was like there was she would subtly
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  S2: draw a line in the sand that is like, not, not.
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  S4: Quite it.
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  S2: Not quite.
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  S4: It. Yeah.
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  S2: Okay. Give me Romans 517. Jonathan.
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  S3: For if because of one man's trespass, death reigned through
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  S3: that one man, much more will those who receive the
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  S3: abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign
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  S3: in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
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  S2: Free gift of righteousness. So your ability to be declared righteous, my.
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  S2: My ability to be declared righteous is solely a gift
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  S2: given through Jesus Christ.
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  S3: Cannot be earned.
• 18:46
  S2: Can't be earned. It's. You don't want to stand before
• 18:51
  S2: God on your own merit.
• 18:54
  S3: Goodness, no.
• 18:56
  S2: I mean, think about that.
• 18:58
  S3: There's nothing scarier, in all honesty.
• 19:01
  S2: A holy, perfect God.
• 19:03
  S3: Yeah.
• 19:04
  S2: Where to even look upon him? People couldn't look upon
• 19:08
  S2: him and live.
• 19:09
  S3: Nope.
• 19:10
  S2: Think about that. Think about. Remember, we had the. They
• 19:13
  S2: have those solar eclipses sometimes. Yeah. And like, everybody wants
• 19:17
  S2: to kind of take it in. But there's so many
• 19:19
  S2: warnings like you need to wear these special glasses.
• 19:22
  S4: Right. You can't look.
• 19:23
  S2: At it because to look at the sun.
• 19:25
  S4: Straight on.
• 19:26
  S2: Straight on for even like a short amount of time
• 19:29
  S2: could be blinding to you. And that's just the sun.
• 19:33
  S2: Who created the sun? Come on. And so the good
• 19:39
  S2: news is, though, is that we get warnings like this
• 19:44
  S2: is not shouldn't catch us by surprise.
• 19:50
  S3: Oh, no, he tells us very clearly.
• 19:52
  S2: But for the enemy of our souls who would love
• 19:54
  S2: to keep us distracted and not thinking about it, and
• 19:57
  S2: to gloss over this very clear teaching in Scripture. So
• 20:00
  S2: back to the parable of the net. This separating out
• 20:05
  S2: of good fish versus bad fish, not a works thing.
• 20:10
  S2: The bad fish were ones that didn't have fins or scales,
• 20:15
  S2: and the good fish were the ones that did good
• 20:19
  S2: versus evil. Righteous versus unrighteous boils down to where do
• 20:23
  S2: you stand with Jesus today? Are you in or are
• 20:27
  S2: you out? And it's only one of those two.
• 20:31
  S3: Yep. No option for a middle.
• 20:32
  S2: There's no middle ground. You're a child of God. Or
• 20:37
  S2: you're a child of Satan. Again, not the most fun
• 20:41
  S2: thing to talk about.
• 20:42
  S4: Correct?
• 20:42
  S2: But every person who doesn't belong to God belongs to
• 20:46
  S2: someone else.
• 20:51
  S3: It's true.
• 20:52
  S4: This is tough.
• 20:53
  S2: But I want to appeal to you this morning. Just
• 20:58
  S2: that simply. Are you in? Has he declared you righteous?
• 21:04
  S2: When you hear about Jesus and you see a cross,
• 21:08
  S2: it all boils down to this. We live in a sinful,
• 21:13
  S2: fallen world. You were born into sin just like I was.
• 21:18
  S2: We weren't born good. And then somewhere along the way
• 21:23
  S2: became something other than what we were.
• 21:26
  S3: Right. There wasn't some in the middle of life kind
• 21:28
  S3: of corruption. It's from the beginning.
• 21:29
  S2: No, it's from the inside out. We're are born with
• 21:33
  S2: our back to God, which is what Carl likes to say,
• 21:35
  S2: which I think is a perfect way to put it.
• 21:37
  S2: We aren't born going toward him. We're born going away
• 21:40
  S2: from him, choosing our own way, our own path, our
• 21:43
  S2: own will. And only when we, by the power of
• 21:48
  S2: the Holy Spirit, see who we really are, that we're
• 21:52
  S2: sinners in need of a Savior and recognize that it's Jesus.
• 21:56
  S2: It's all about Jesus. That he went to the cross brutally,
• 22:02
  S2: brutally crucified. We. We clean it up when we have
• 22:06
  S2: like a nice shiny cross that hangs on a building
• 22:10
  S2: or hangs around our necks. We really, really sanitize it
• 22:14
  S2: from what it actually was. He died a horrific death,
• 22:20
  S2: but on the third day rose again. Yeah, it actually happened.
• 22:26
  S2: And historians will confirm it actually happened 100%. The evidence
• 22:31
  S2: of the resurrection. That's another topic for another day. But
• 22:34
  S2: it's there. It's there if you really start looking into it.
• 22:38
  S2: But the question is, do you believe that he is
• 22:40
  S2: who he says he is, that he did what he
• 22:42
  S2: said he did for you today. The invitation is there.
• 22:47
  S2: You are invited in if you will, but surrender, saying,
• 22:53
  S2: I am a sinner, full stop. Not a good person.
• 23:00
  S2: I could never stand before a holy God. But we
• 23:04
  S2: don't have to when we're in Christ. We stand behind Jesus.
• 23:09
  S2: He already took the punishment that we deserve so that
• 23:14
  S2: we didn't have to face death twice. We'll die and
• 23:17
  S2: our earthly bodies will die. But when we're born again,
• 23:22
  S2: that's the only time we'll die physically. But our eternal
• 23:25
  S2: life is secure. So if today you need to be
• 23:29
  S2: in that simple surrender, admit that you're a sinner. Cry
• 23:35
  S2: out to God. Have that honest conversation. The invitation is open.
• 23:39
  S2: Will you accept it today? I'm a sinner. I need
• 23:42
  S2: a Savior. And Jesus, it's you today. I surrender my
• 23:46
  S2: life to you. If that's you, I just want to
• 23:50
  S2: pray for you. Lord, I thank you that by the
• 23:55
  S2: power of your Holy Spirit, someone seeing something today that
• 23:58
  S2: they hadn't seen before and it's can be scary, but
• 24:04
  S2: thank you that the Word of God, that you've given
• 24:07
  S2: us your word to convict, to reveal, you're not trying
• 24:12
  S2: to hide this from us, Lord. So I thank you
• 24:15
  S2: for the person who's turning to you today, Lord. I
• 24:18
  S2: pray that you would allow it to be clear in
• 24:21
  S2: their mind that they would be resolved in their spirit.
• 24:25
  S2: Thank you that this is as real as real can be. Lord,
• 24:28
  S2: you are doing a new thing in someone today and
• 24:31
  S2: I'm grateful for it. Pray that you would draw them
• 24:35
  S2: nearer still to you. That you would send them people.
• 24:39
  S2: Send them to a place where they can flourish and
• 24:42
  S2: be surrounded by other believers. God, let this word, this seed,
• 24:47
  S2: fall into good soil, take root and produce fruit. Lord,
• 24:52
  S2: I thank you in Jesus name. Amen.
• 24:56
  S4: Amen.
• 24:57
  S2: If that is you, I want you to do one
• 24:59
  S2: thing for me when you can safely do so, just
• 25:01
  S2: text the word new and e w to 805 557898.
• 25:07
  S2: I'll go a little slower on that. Sorry, new to
• 25:10
  S2: 805 5557898. New. 805 557898. We have something we want
• 25:19
  S2: to send you. Read through it carefully. Welcome to the family.
• 25:23
  S1: She was trying to earn her way to God, but
• 25:26
  S1: God showed her. She didn't have to. Allie is in
• 25:29
  S1: the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 25:33
  S2: I am in that season of life where almost everyone
• 25:38
  S2: that I know seems to be either about to or
• 25:42
  S2: recently launched a kid. And by launched, I mean sent
• 25:47
  S2: them out into the world. Whether it's first year of college,
• 25:51
  S2: my Facebook feed is flooded with people dropping off their
• 25:54
  S2: kids at college. I am one year away from that myself.
• 25:59
  S2: And there are so many emotions that come along with
• 26:02
  S2: this season of parenting. Doctor Jonathan Morrow is joining us
• 26:06
  S2: right now author, speaker and professor. You've written the book,
• 26:10
  S2: among others, Welcome to College A Christ Centered Guide to
• 26:13
  S2: Lasting Faith. It is a interesting season of parenting. You
• 26:18
  S2: think that those little years where they're babies and toddlers
• 26:22
  S2: and you're exhausted, that feels like the challenge. And there
• 26:25
  S2: are challenges there. As you get older and your kids
• 26:29
  S2: get older, the season where you're preparing to launch them
• 26:32
  S2: out into the world, especially as a Christian parent, it
• 26:35
  S2: can feel a little bit intimidating. And you know this well, right?
• 26:39
  S2: This is your passion.
• 26:41
  S5: Yeah. This season is all the feels, right? You're you're grieving,
• 26:45
  S5: you're excited. You are thinking about things. You're wondering how
• 26:49
  S5: they're going to do. You are hoping that you've done enough.
• 26:52
  S5: You are hoping they meet the right people. You're hoping
• 26:55
  S5: they get in the right classes. Then you've got to
• 26:57
  S5: figure out, well, what do I do and what do
• 26:59
  S5: I not do anymore? And who's going to be influencing
• 27:02
  S5: them now? So all those things are coming together. And
• 27:05
  S5: that's why I think the conversation around what are we
• 27:08
  S5: doing in those years? Building up to it is so
• 27:10
  S5: vital because in some ways, what you're going to do
• 27:12
  S5: is trust that what you are doing is what's going
• 27:15
  S5: to last, and that the influence that you have had,
• 27:18
  S5: even though it looks a little different during the season,
• 27:20
  S5: is going to set them up well for this next
• 27:22
  S5: season when that ownership really kicks in.
• 27:24
  S2: So for Christian parents, I think there's maybe an underlying fear,
• 27:29
  S2: maybe too strong of a word, but maybe not. Is
• 27:32
  S2: this not so much? How are they going to do
• 27:35
  S2: in classes? It becomes, is their faith going to survive
• 27:39
  S2: these years of college? Whether you're sending them to a
• 27:42
  S2: Christian college or to a state school, you know that
• 27:46
  S2: this is a season of life where many of them,
• 27:48
  S2: for the first time, are going to have to have
• 27:51
  S2: a faith that stands without mom and dad. Speak to
• 27:54
  S2: that a little bit.
• 27:55
  S5: Yeah, absolutely. Because the number one question that every student
• 27:59
  S5: has to answer is, Is Christianity true and is it true?
• 28:03
  S5: And have they owned it because there's mom and Dad's faith.
• 28:06
  S5: There's a youth pastor's faith, and then there's their faith.
• 28:09
  S5: And for a lot of students, this is that first
• 28:12
  S5: moment where they're really going to be tested to go, oh,
• 28:16
  S5: not everybody agrees with me. How does that feel? And
• 28:19
  S5: what do I think? Those are the two big things.
• 28:21
  S5: And then the thing comes to, okay, has this been
• 28:24
  S5: a rational faith for them or something that, you know,
• 28:26
  S5: many times when we've talked about this before, you know,
• 28:29
  S5: a lot of students sometimes grow up and they're what
• 28:31
  S5: I would call Christian relativists. This is true for me
• 28:34
  S5: because I grew up in the church and a Christian family,
• 28:37
  S5: but it's not necessarily true for everyone. And that's going
• 28:39
  S5: to be tested day one. Because once the classes and honestly,
• 28:43
  S5: even in many Christian colleges where sometimes maybe there's even a,
• 28:46
  S5: a progressive professor in there or somebody who's going to
• 28:49
  S5: challenge their faith, they're going to have to figure out,
• 28:52
  S5: is this true with a capital T for all people,
• 28:55
  S5: all places, all times? Or is this just true in
• 28:58
  S5: how I was raised? And I want to be accepted
• 29:00
  S5: and I want to fit in and all of that
• 29:02
  S5: stuff's colliding. Day one for them. And so we can
• 29:05
  S5: talk about some things around that. But that's kind of
• 29:07
  S5: that key moment is, is Christianity really true? AM I
• 29:10
  S5: going to build my life on that?
• 29:12
  S2: You know, one thing that we do often on this show, Jonathan,
• 29:15
  S2: is we draw a clear distinction between nobody is born
• 29:20
  S2: a Christian, and it's amazing how many people with their
• 29:23
  S2: testimony will say, well, I was raised in a Christian
• 29:26
  S2: home as if to say that I'm a Christian because
• 29:30
  S2: my family is a Christian. And this is if Carl
• 29:33
  S2: were here, he would be he would be hands in
• 29:36
  S2: the air. So many people come to faith later in life.
• 29:42
  S2: And maybe they were they were it was cultural Christianity.
• 29:45
  S2: It was I'm around it. Maybe I've been in church.
• 29:48
  S2: It's all I know. But the part of people's testimony
• 29:51
  S2: where they're. Maybe describe it as. And then it became
• 29:54
  S2: real to me is almost always the point where they
• 29:58
  S2: actually became a genuine follower of Christ, that everything prior
• 30:01
  S2: to that. Not that it didn't matter, but it wasn't
• 30:04
  S2: genuine saving faith. And we have to grapple with this,
• 30:07
  S2: that just because kids were raised in a Christian home
• 30:10
  S2: does not mean that they actually are in Christ. And
• 30:14
  S2: that can be hard to take sometimes, right?
• 30:16
  S5: Yeah, it is, because sometimes, and this is where it's
• 30:18
  S5: really important that as moms and dads, we don't put
• 30:21
  S5: our identity in things that we can't control, meaning how
• 30:25
  S5: that child is going to respond. And sometimes we think, well,
• 30:29
  S5: is that a reflection on me? Did I not do enough?
• 30:32
  S5: That's a moment where we got to go. You know
• 30:33
  S5: what the most important thing is, is that my child
• 30:36
  S5: comes to know Jesus and is willing to follow him
• 30:39
  S5: for a lifetime. That's the most important. So even if
• 30:41
  S5: they might talk about it in different terms than you
• 30:43
  S5: might talk about it, you're like, well, I had them
• 30:45
  S5: in church, in camp and we went and had these conversations.
• 30:48
  S5: But in their mind, if it really clicked for them,
• 30:51
  S5: once they had that challenging professor or they saw the
• 30:53
  S5: video online, that really made them rethink, okay, can I
• 30:56
  S5: really trust the Bible? Is God real? What do I
• 30:58
  S5: do with these doubts? Like, what do I do with
• 31:00
  S5: my friends who believe differently? You know, what? AM I
• 31:03
  S5: going to get up and go to church? AM I
• 31:04
  S5: going to read my Bible? AM I going to actually pray?
• 31:07
  S5: Those kind of things are very different for them. And
• 31:10
  S5: so in some ways, we just need to be patient
• 31:13
  S5: with them as they're telling us what they're hearing and thinking.
• 31:16
  S5: But for many of them, they're coming to a point
• 31:18
  S5: of decision where they're like, okay, am I really going
• 31:20
  S5: to follow this? And that's why I wrote Welcome to College,
• 31:24
  S5: because it's really got a lot of opportunity for them
• 31:26
  S5: to kind of go, okay, what is real? What do
• 31:29
  S5: I do with doubt? Is it intellectual doubt? Is it
• 31:31
  S5: emotional doubt? Spiritual doubt? Maybe we can talk about some
• 31:33
  S5: of those different categories, but what's going on? When I
• 31:36
  S5: face tough questions about identity and performance in front of
• 31:40
  S5: who else is going to be asking me these questions
• 31:43
  S5: and all the things in between. And so that's why
• 31:45
  S5: I think as parents and moms and dads, it's challenging.
• 31:48
  S5: We need grace. And I want to give grace to
• 31:49
  S5: everybody who's listening right now because you got all the
• 31:52
  S5: emotions right. You're grieving something because because it's good. You're
• 31:55
  S5: launching a kid because that's the right thing and it's hard, right?
• 31:59
  S5: And you got to let go. And you've got to
• 32:01
  S5: trust that they're going to take those next steps. And
• 32:04
  S5: so all of those things are coming together. So I
• 32:06
  S5: love the way you're talking about that, because that ownership
• 32:09
  S5: piece from us to them is vital. And that doesn't
• 32:13
  S5: always look the same for each kid. But there are
• 32:16
  S5: moments that it's going to draw it out of them
• 32:18
  S5: and usually challenge. And that's why I would say one
• 32:20
  S5: last thing on this point. The earlier we can introduce
• 32:24
  S5: some challenge into their worldview formation in the high school
• 32:27
  S5: years and even late middle middle school years, the better,
• 32:31
  S5: because then we're going to start to see how they're
• 32:34
  S5: actually walking through those things. But unfortunately, sometimes in the
• 32:37
  S5: way we kind of design our churches with an entertainment
• 32:40
  S5: only mindset and some of those kind of things. And
• 32:42
  S5: I love the local church, by the way. It's not
• 32:44
  S5: that it's just we create this world in which they're
• 32:46
  S5: bubble wrapped and everything's fun all the time, so they're
• 32:48
  S5: never challenged. And if you're never challenged, you never grow.
• 32:51
  S5: And so if we never introduce any challenge along the way,
• 32:54
  S5: then we're not going to see how they're okay. What's
• 32:56
  S5: the pressure point? Maybe. Where do we need to have
• 32:58
  S5: a further conversation? What are you thinking about this. What
• 33:00
  S5: are you feeling? So I think those are some things
• 33:02
  S5: that are at play there as well.
• 33:04
  S2: So talk a little bit about some of the principles
• 33:05
  S2: in the book. What are the main categories that somebody's
• 33:09
  S2: launching out into? Let's just take college are going to
• 33:12
  S2: face the worldview. One is big. We know that there's
• 33:15
  S2: going to be questions about identity, about sexuality, about we
• 33:20
  S2: don't get political on, on this show, but they know
• 33:23
  S2: that those are coming. We know that those are coming.
• 33:25
  S2: What else are they grappling with?
• 33:28
  S5: They're wrestling with identity, sexuality. They're they're wrestling with kind
• 33:31
  S5: of ownership pieces. They're wrestling with where do I belong?
• 33:34
  S5: That's a massive one. C so the first category is
• 33:37
  S5: that is Christianity true? They need reasons for faith to
• 33:40
  S5: have a lasting faith. They have to have rational anchor points,
• 33:42
  S5: but they also need relational anchor points. And here's how
• 33:46
  S5: I tend to think about this. There's a small circle
• 33:48
  S5: which would be Is Christianity true for them? And they're
• 33:50
  S5: really big circle is do I belong? And both of
• 33:53
  S5: those are operating for a teenager. And what's happening in
• 33:56
  S5: the do I belong category is they're going to share
• 33:59
  S5: the worldview of the people they're accepted by. And if
• 34:01
  S5: they come to a tension point with their friends who
• 34:04
  S5: they're invited by, seen by, valued by, doesn't share their
• 34:08
  S5: Christian worldview, then guess what? They're more likely to go
• 34:11
  S5: in that direction because, you know, Proverbs 1320, he who
• 34:15
  S5: walks to the wise becomes wise, but the companion of
• 34:17
  S5: fools suffers harm. They're going to go in that direction
• 34:20
  S5: as well. They're also going to have to answer the question,
• 34:22
  S5: who am I going to learn from? Everybody learns from someone,
• 34:25
  S5: and that's the heart of being a disciple. But I
• 34:27
  S5: think the point that they've got to get to shift
• 34:30
  S5: during the high school and college and teenage years is
• 34:33
  S5: does Jesus really know what he's talking about? Not just
• 34:36
  S5: for heaven someday, which honestly, I can't do anything about
• 34:39
  S5: anyway because I have no control over that. But like today.
• 34:42
  S5: So my dating relationships, how I process social media, what
• 34:46
  S5: I watch on Netflix, how I show up to class,
• 34:49
  S5: what do I arrange my life around? I'm going to
• 34:51
  S5: learn from someone and I'm going to give somebody the
• 34:54
  S5: influence to speak into that in my life, and they're
• 34:56
  S5: going to have to deal with that. And they're also
• 34:58
  S5: going to need to have a grown up worldview. And
• 35:00
  S5: this is what you were really kind of alluding to
• 35:01
  S5: at the first part of this question was, you know,
• 35:04
  S5: I think about it in terms of a backpack. That's
• 35:05
  S5: the image that I use in the book. And if
• 35:08
  S5: you think about a backpack, if you're going to survive
• 35:10
  S5: in the wild for, say, three weeks and you know, Yellowstone,
• 35:13
  S5: what are you going to take with you? Well, you're
• 35:15
  S5: going to take with you things that do meaningful work
• 35:17
  S5: for you, like a fire starter and a water purifier.
• 35:19
  S5: You're not going to take a bowling ball, for example.
• 35:22
  S5: And so when a student goes into the college years,
• 35:24
  S5: they're very practically figuring out, am I putting my Christian
• 35:27
  S5: faith in the backpack for the next season? Or was
• 35:29
  S5: it only a sentimental thing that I have positive feelings about,
• 35:32
  S5: you know, growing up? Is this doing real work for
• 35:35
  S5: me in the real world? And that's, that's the grown
• 35:37
  S5: up worldview part, because many of them don't have much
• 35:39
  S5: more to go on than kind of a coloring book.
• 35:41
  S5: Jesus idea, because they had fifth grade coloring pages about,
• 35:45
  S5: you know, Joseph and the coat of many colors and
• 35:47
  S5: Daniel and the lion's den, but they did AP calculus
• 35:49
  S5: and they did AP physics, and they did AP history
• 35:52
  S5: and dual enrollment, this and everything else. And so has
• 35:55
  S5: their biblical worldview grown with sophistication as they've grown. And
• 35:59
  S5: I even love how you set it up, even not
• 36:01
  S5: talking about politics and all those kind of things. One
• 36:04
  S5: of the fascinating parts of our age, though, right now
• 36:07
  S5: is if you took two circles and they overlap right now,
• 36:10
  S5: all of the political questions are also deep, big worldview
• 36:13
  S5: questions at this particular cultural moment. So there's no way
• 36:16
  S5: to talk about identity in a way that doesn't eventually
• 36:19
  S5: affect our life together, which is a political question. Or
• 36:22
  S5: what does it mean to be human or what is
• 36:24
  S5: truth or male and female, and all of those things overlap.
• 36:27
  S5: And so in that regard, they're coming of age in
• 36:30
  S5: a time when all of those questions are not only
• 36:32
  S5: deeply personal, but they're very public. And, and so they've
• 36:36
  S5: got to figure out how all that plays out in
• 36:38
  S5: the classroom as well. But those are some of the factors.
• 36:40
  S5: And then the last one I would say is they
• 36:42
  S5: need a vision for life in God's story. And I'm
• 36:43
  S5: passionate about this. They've got to realize that they have
• 36:46
  S5: a part to play. If Christianity really is true, then
• 36:48
  S5: they have a mission. they have a purpose, they have
• 36:50
  S5: a calling. And have they stepped into that. So there's
• 36:53
  S5: a lot of things going on in Welcome to College,
• 36:55
  S5: because they're wrestling with answers to all of these things.
• 36:58
  S5: Not always in a linear sequence. Sometimes it's a circumstance,
• 37:02
  S5: sometimes it's a hard day. That's why they've got to
• 37:04
  S5: process that.
• 37:05
  S2: Lastly, I want you to speak directly to parents, grandparents
• 37:09
  S2: who are in this season. How can we best help
• 37:13
  S2: our child? It can be very disheartening, even scary. You
• 37:17
  S2: get a phone call from your kid and let's say
• 37:19
  S2: they're like, I'm not sure I believe this stuff anymore.
• 37:22
  S2: Mom or dad. You know what? I'm not going to
• 37:25
  S2: go to church for right now. And as a parent,
• 37:27
  S2: there's a lot of things that I think you're going
• 37:29
  S2: to want to say, but my guess is they're probably
• 37:32
  S2: your your gut instinct is to want to control, to say, no, no, no,
• 37:37
  S2: you need to do this. You need to do this and,
• 37:39
  S2: and that. It didn't work on me. And I don't
• 37:41
  S2: think it works on anyone. Coach up parents and grandparents
• 37:45
  S2: who want to be helpful in this season. That can
• 37:47
  S2: be a little bit tenuous.
• 37:48
  S5: Yeah for sure. So I would put people in two
• 37:50
  S5: categories real quickly. If you are still building up to
• 37:53
  S5: the launch point, then I would encourage you to grab
• 37:55
  S5: a resource like welcome to College. Be thinking and praying
• 37:58
  S5: and learning about the issues and challenges so that you'll
• 38:00
  S5: have something to say and a better question to ask
• 38:03
  S5: when those come up. That's kind of the preparation side.
• 38:06
  S5: If they're already launched and you get that phone call,
• 38:09
  S5: here's what I'd encourage you to do. I call it
• 38:11
  S5: the freak out rule. Freak out on the inside, not
• 38:14
  S5: on the outside. On the inside. You might be going,
• 38:16
  S5: oh my gosh, didn't we teach you better than this?
• 38:18
  S5: What do you like is everything and rather smile and
• 38:21
  S5: you can practice this. And whenever I teach on this,
• 38:23
  S5: I help parents do this and remind myself of the
• 38:25
  S5: same thing is, okay, that's a good question. Thank you
• 38:28
  S5: so much for asking. Trust me enough to ask me
• 38:31
  S5: that because here's what you did. In that moment. They
• 38:32
  S5: did something really scary. They invited mom or dad into
• 38:35
  S5: something that they were really having a question about, a doubt,
• 38:37
  S5: maybe even a disagreement with you, possibly about. And you're like, hey,
• 38:41
  S5: we're going to explore that together. Thanks for trusting me.
• 38:43
  S5: And you've preserved that relationship because if you do freak
• 38:45
  S5: out on the outside, honestly, guess who's the last person
• 38:48
  S5: they're going to come to? Next time they have that
• 38:49
  S5: big question about the challenging thing, probably you. It's not
• 38:52
  S5: that it's irredeemable, irredeemable. You can still ask for forgiveness
• 38:55
  S5: and work through that, but hey, invite them into it.
• 38:58
  S5: And then you've got a ready made platform to have
• 39:01
  S5: ongoing conversations. And they, if they're talking about sexuality or
• 39:04
  S5: evidence for God or whatever it might be, you've also
• 39:07
  S5: bought yourself some time. You're like, hey, can we talk
• 39:09
  S5: later this week? Or maybe we can, I can come
• 39:11
  S5: up and take you to coffee or we can go
• 39:13
  S5: get some chips and salsa or whatever, and we can
• 39:15
  S5: talk through these things. And you've got time then to
• 39:18
  S5: prepare with a good resource so that, you know, like
• 39:21
  S5: there's a chapter on evidence for God, or there's a
• 39:23
  S5: chapter on sexuality, there's a chapter on doubt, there's a
• 39:25
  S5: chapter on politics, there's a chapter on church or whatever
• 39:28
  S5: gospel in Welcome to College. And then you can go, okay,
• 39:31
  S5: I've got something meaningful to say. My encouragement, though, is
• 39:34
  S5: don't back the truck up and say everything that's possible
• 39:36
  S5: to be said in that moment. Listen. Ask questions. Tell
• 39:40
  S5: me more about that. Be curious, because the more they
• 39:44
  S5: process with you, the more ownership they're going to have
• 39:47
  S5: and the more clarity you'll see really where they're at
• 39:49
  S5: and really where the opportunity to maybe give some encouragement
• 39:52
  S5: or another way to think about that, that's hopefully true
• 39:55
  S5: and biblical you can step in with. So those are
• 39:56
  S5: some ways to think about that.
• 39:58
  S2: Fantastic. The book is called Welcome to College A Christ
• 40:00
  S2: Centered Guide to Lasting Faith. Text College to 800 555 7898.
• 40:07
  S2: Doctor Jonathan Morrow, our guest. Just text college to 805 557898.
• 40:13
  S1: Walking closer to Jesus every day you're listening to Carl
• 40:17
  S1: and Crew.
• 40:18
  S2: It's Freedom Friday and it's back to school week. We
• 40:21
  S2: have one more professor who's jumping in studio with us,
• 40:25
  S2: doctor Samuel Neiman, professor of intercultural studies here at Moody
• 40:28
  S2: Bible Institute, also vice president of call of Hope. Reaching
• 40:32
  S2: Muslims for Christ. Intercultural engagement is the course we're going
• 40:36
  S2: to talk about today, reaching people across different culture groups.
• 40:39
  S2: You know, it's interesting depending on where you have grown
• 40:42
  S2: up with norms, expectations. It's easy to view ministry through
• 40:47
  S2: the lens of how what you've experienced and what you know.
• 40:51
  S2: But that can be very limiting when we think about
• 40:53
  S2: a global church, right?
• 40:54
  S6: Yeah. Well, Ellie, good morning, everyone, and good morning to
• 40:57
  S6: our faithful listeners. Yes. You know, I mean, we are
• 41:00
  S6: called to make disciples across the nations. I think that's
• 41:03
  S6: part of the Great Commission. And the beauty is this
• 41:05
  S6: the gospel is good news for every culture. I always
• 41:09
  S6: use a term that we need to be passionate, to
• 41:12
  S6: take the gospel across the street and across the oceans.
• 41:15
  S6: And of course, that means crossing cultures. But the Bible,
• 41:19
  S6: the Word of God, gives us so much, so much material,
• 41:23
  S6: how we can prepare to be global disciple makers wherever
• 41:28
  S6: we are. And I think that's the beauty that we have,
• 41:31
  S6: and we do it faithfully by God's grace.
• 41:34
  S2: For our listeners who aren't familiar with your story, give
• 41:37
  S2: us a little bit of your background. Originally from Pakistan.
• 41:39
  S6: Sure. Born and raised in Pakistan, my dad was a
• 41:41
  S6: former Muslim, studied there, served there, studied in South Korea,
• 41:46
  S6: and then. And then the US. Our passion, of course,
• 41:50
  S6: is always reaching Muslims for Christ. My younger brother was
• 41:53
  S6: martyred in Pakistan. That kind of changed the trajectory of
• 41:57
  S6: our family, our ministry. And, you know, it has been
• 42:01
  S6: it has been a good journey by God's grace. And
• 42:04
  S6: when I see people coming to Christ globally in some
• 42:07
  S6: of the most difficult, most remote areas where we cannot
• 42:11
  S6: serve full time in many different ways as Western friends.
• 42:15
  S6: But the nationals are there with with the gospel. And
• 42:18
  S6: that's just that's just amazing.
• 42:20
  S2: You know, I love that you said that the gospel
• 42:22
  S2: is good news for every culture. Yes, everyone, every culture,
• 42:26
  S2: every people group, every tribe, every nation. What are some
• 42:30
  S2: of the maybe the preconceived notions that you have to
• 42:33
  S2: dispel for students when they first come in? And this
• 42:36
  S2: is their first exposure to world missions.
• 42:38
  S6: Yeah, I think, I think I, I personally remind them
• 42:42
  S6: that from the book of Genesis, we see the love
• 42:45
  S6: of God. And that is only the biblical message, the
• 42:49
  S6: word of God. The Bible basically clearly tells us, tells us,
• 42:52
  S6: and reminds us there that we are all beautifully and
• 42:57
  S6: wonderfully made in his image. When all of us are
• 43:00
  S6: made in his image, there is no, you know, better
• 43:04
  S6: or lower or upper or lower or bad or good
• 43:08
  S6: or black and white and all those things. And I
• 43:10
  S6: think that's where the gospel transcends all of these, you know,
• 43:15
  S6: values that we may have. And we communicate the Word
• 43:18
  S6: of God very clearly. When we feel that everyone is
• 43:21
  S6: made in his image, then everyone has to hear the gospel.
• 43:24
  S6: That's my that's what I feel. Yeah. Everyone has to
• 43:27
  S6: hear the gospel. And it may be with me or
• 43:30
  S6: through us, or it will be from the people in
• 43:34
  S6: that culture. And the beauty is this Ali, that we
• 43:36
  S6: have seen that God's love is present in every culture
• 43:41
  S6: in the most, you know, diverse backgrounds or difficult backgrounds.
• 43:48
  S6: God's love is always present. We just present the love
• 43:51
  S6: of Christ that basically fulfills God's love and and gives
• 43:55
  S6: them hope in many different aspects.
• 43:58
  S2: You know, it's interesting how I wouldn't say that this
• 44:00
  S2: is a new thing, but there's a growing trend of
• 44:03
  S2: people who believe that to try to impose my faith
• 44:09
  S2: on you is dishonoring is sure. And so I mean
• 44:14
  S2: that especially for younger generations, there's very much, even for Christians,
• 44:18
  S2: a sense of, hey, you believe what you believe. I
• 44:21
  S2: believe what I believe kind of never the two shall meet.
• 44:24
  S6: You see that that dispels the myth. It's a myth
• 44:26
  S6: that that somehow we give in to. Right. Well, I
• 44:29
  S6: don't want I want to respect everyone. I want to
• 44:32
  S6: respect every culture. I want to respect every belief. Surely
• 44:35
  S6: we do all those things, but we need to be
• 44:37
  S6: reminded that if people are not in Christ, and if
• 44:40
  S6: people have not accepted Christ, there's no hope for them. Yeah.
• 44:43
  S6: And it's not that ours is superior than others. The
• 44:47
  S6: question is this. I always remind myself, and the student
• 44:51
  S6: says this. Where does it say the full message of salvation?
• 44:55
  S6: Where does it state? In what book? It's only the
• 44:58
  S6: Word of God, the Bible, you see. And I think
• 45:01
  S6: in that that gives us the passion. Of course, our
• 45:05
  S6: posture is of humility. Yeah. Our posture is not super imposing.
• 45:10
  S6: That's why we walk with each and every one of us, right?
• 45:13
  S6: We walk with them, showing them our love and care
• 45:17
  S6: and compassion and prayer. And then in that process, they
• 45:21
  S6: see that we are different. What makes us different? What
• 45:23
  S6: makes Christians our Bible believing Christians different than anyone? And
• 45:28
  S6: I think that's where the beauty comes. People ask, why
• 45:31
  S6: are you different? You know what gives? What gives you
• 45:34
  S6: the hope in this most intense and diverse and miserable situation?
• 45:39
  S6: Why are you hopeful? And the hope is that we
• 45:42
  S6: have an eternal place. We love the Lord Jesus who
• 45:46
  S6: has given us our forgiven us our sins. And that's
• 45:49
  S6: the message that we take because we love them, as
• 45:52
  S6: I'm sure people have heard, we love you so much
• 45:56
  S6: that we want to share the gospel. It is not
• 45:59
  S6: that we want to impose our views. We love you
• 46:02
  S6: so much. We want to see you in heaven.
• 46:04
  S2: Yeah. We have another guest that we talked to often
• 46:07
  S2: named Abdu Murray. I don't know if you're familiar with
• 46:09
  S2: his work.
• 46:09
  S6: At all, dear.
• 46:10
  S2: Brother, but when he talks about how it's actually very
• 46:13
  S2: dishonoring to suggest that all of our religions, aren't they
• 46:19
  S2: mostly the same? I mean, and he said, that's actually
• 46:22
  S2: very dishonoring to everyone to suggest that these things, it's
• 46:26
  S2: a very different things, like kind of throwing them all
• 46:28
  S2: into the pot like some nice soup that. Yeah. I mean,
• 46:31
  S2: it's all leading to the same God, right?
• 46:34
  S6: Well, the point is this, which God, you know, and
• 46:37
  S6: I think I think you can say generally, well, all
• 46:39
  S6: of us believe in God, surely, but which God and
• 46:43
  S6: what did that God of other faiths, what did that
• 46:45
  S6: God did you know, what does he do for his
• 46:48
  S6: his followers, so to say only the biblical account. The
• 46:51
  S6: Lord Jesus Christ, the God of creation from the biblical account,
• 46:56
  S6: takes us from the book of Genesis through the prophets
• 47:00
  S6: in the Gospels and the revelation. That's the biblical account.
• 47:03
  S6: I don't see that, Ali, in other religions, but due respect,
• 47:07
  S6: you know, of course. I mean, you know that. Sure.
• 47:10
  S6: I mean, I have I have actually family that are
• 47:12
  S6: Muslims and I have friends that are that are Muslims
• 47:15
  S6: and Hindus and other things. I care for them. But
• 47:18
  S6: that doesn't mean that I have to agree with what
• 47:20
  S6: they believe in. Sure, I care for them. So much
• 47:23
  S6: so that I do, uh, present Christ crucified, you know,
• 47:27
  S6: in many different ways.
• 47:29
  S2: One thing that Carl has talked about is that we
• 47:32
  S2: have in the West, exported a version of the gospel
• 47:37
  S2: that kind of can stray from being biblical. That's maybe
• 47:41
  S2: caused some pain, where we've kind of mixed in biblical
• 47:46
  S2: truth with Western sort of customs. What do you say
• 47:49
  S2: to that?
• 47:49
  S6: Well, that's where I go back to my former comments.
• 47:53
  S6: The beauty of the biblical message is this it transcends
• 47:57
  S6: every culture.
• 47:58
  S2: Yeah.
• 47:58
  S6: Other religions don't. Let me just give you an example.
• 48:01
  S6: The Muslims all over the world pray five times a day.
• 48:04
  S6: They all have to face Mecca, right? Just just with respect.
• 48:07
  S6: I'm just saying that. But by God's grace for us,
• 48:11
  S6: we are not. We can worship God everywhere, you see.
• 48:15
  S6: And I think the gospel was brought to us in
• 48:19
  S6: the east, of course, or in the Middle East by
• 48:21
  S6: our Western brothers and sisters who sacrificed. But now it
• 48:24
  S6: is not limited from the West to the to to
• 48:27
  S6: the east, from the west to the west. It's from
• 48:30
  S6: everywhere to everywhere. Right. And I think that's the beauty
• 48:33
  S6: of the, of the, of, of the Christian message that
• 48:35
  S6: we have. And I think the students who come to Moody,
• 48:39
  S6: they come to Moody to be prepared. I mean, I
• 48:41
  S6: tell my students that every major leads you to be better,
• 48:48
  S6: wholesome disciple makers in your gifting, your teaching English, your linguistics,
• 48:52
  S6: your biblical studies, your children and family, your, your pre counseling,
• 48:57
  S6: your humans. Every major prepares us. It's not an intercultural studies. Yeah.
• 49:02
  S6: You know, we want to be better communicators of the
• 49:04
  S6: gospel in every and any measures that we offer. And
• 49:08
  S6: I think that's just beautiful to see students being on
• 49:11
  S6: fire for the Lord.
• 49:12
  S2: Do you have a story of a student that comes
• 49:13
  S2: to mind, who you've seen come through the program, maybe
• 49:16
  S2: one of your classes, or just at Moody in general,
• 49:18
  S2: who has gone on and served so many, but give
• 49:22
  S2: me 1 or 2.
• 49:23
  S6: Well, let me give you a story of Isaiah, which
• 49:26
  S6: I can use his name. He was here freshman years ago. And,
• 49:31
  S6: you know, just just regular freshmen kind of lost or whatever.
• 49:35
  S6: And over the years I have followed him probably almost
• 49:38
  S6: 18 years now. Wow. One eight. Isaiah has gone to Peru,
• 49:43
  S6: South America. Okay. And he immersed himself in the Amazonian
• 49:49
  S6: in that high up Highlands mountains. So much so that
• 49:53
  S6: God has enabled him. And now his wife, who is
• 49:57
  S6: a local believer, local believer from the from that tribe,
• 50:00
  S6: they have been translating the Word of God in the
• 50:04
  S6: local tribal dialect. And it is fascinating to see the
• 50:09
  S6: churches being planted, people being discipled. These are up in
• 50:13
  S6: the Amazon Highlands, you know, people being discipled disciples. Then again,
• 50:19
  S6: going planting other churches in many different ways. I mean,
• 50:22
  S6: when I see that, you know, it just lifts me up. Yeah.
• 50:26
  S6: And he was a simple freshman here, you know. You know,
• 50:29
  S6: I mean, with respect. Right. You know, just average American.
• 50:34
  S6: I don't think Ali, when he was here studying, I
• 50:37
  S6: don't think that he would have ever thought that God
• 50:40
  S6: will take him across, you know. And there are many
• 50:43
  S6: others who are serving in restricted areas that I cannot name. Sure. But,
• 50:47
  S6: you know, I mean, I walk with them, right? I
• 50:49
  S6: visit them, I walk with them, I visit them, um,
• 50:53
  S6: I communicate with them through WhatsApp or signal and all
• 50:57
  S6: those other other aspects. I hear their stories, I pray
• 51:00
  S6: with them. And by God's grace, the gospel is going
• 51:03
  S6: forth in an amazing manner.
• 51:05
  S2: What would you say? Lastly to the person listening who
• 51:08
  S2: isn't maybe not called to the global mission field, but
• 51:11
  S2: certainly have neighbors and friends and other parents at their
• 51:16
  S2: kids schools or sports teams. What are some things to
• 51:19
  S2: keep in mind when you want to engage across cultures
• 51:22
  S2: right here in the US.
• 51:23
  S6: I will say let's read acts chapter 17. First, God
• 51:27
  S6: in his own sovereignty shakes the nations. I believe God
• 51:31
  S6: is bringing people to our doorstep, our backyard, our doorstep.
• 51:35
  S6: If you cannot go overseas, you can go across the street.
• 51:38
  S6: That's why I always say, take the message, take the
• 51:41
  S6: gospel across the street and across the oceans. God is
• 51:45
  S6: bringing people here. So if you cannot go overseas, at
• 51:48
  S6: least be a soul winner in your neighborhood, in your community,
• 51:52
  S6: at your baseball game. Add to your basketball game, at
• 51:56
  S6: your little league. You can do that. Yeah, you can
• 51:59
  S6: do that.
• 52:00
  S2: Well, how?
• 52:01
  S6: Let me give you one example. Okay. My car is
• 52:03
  S6: having trouble. Yesterday I was at a car dealership. Okay,
• 52:07
  S6: the transmission is gone. Anyway, coming back, the loaner car
• 52:11
  S6: or the guy who drove me was a Latino brother.
• 52:14
  S6: Young fellow from Mexico. Okay. So I asked him. It
• 52:19
  S6: was probably ten minutes, only ten minutes from that card
• 52:21
  S6: shop to my house. What do you do? Yeah. I said,
• 52:25
  S6: are you do you go to church? Yeah, maybe once
• 52:27
  S6: in a while. So I kind of figured out, okay,
• 52:30
  S6: he's not a regular attender. I asked him, I said,
• 52:34
  S6: you know, do you have family? He said, yeah, I
• 52:36
  S6: have a girlfriend and a child. Then I told him,
• 52:38
  S6: I said, you know, there is a very solid Latino,
• 52:42
  S6: Spanish speaking church not so far from this car dealership.
• 52:47
  S6: And I will encourage you to go. And I'm a Christian.
• 52:50
  S6: I told him very clearly, you know, he was kind
• 52:51
  S6: of surprised. Well, he thought, I'm I'm I'm a Muslim.
• 52:54
  S6: A lot of people think that way. I said, I'm
• 52:56
  S6: a Christian from Pakistan and I teach at Moody. My
• 52:59
  S6: passion is to train young, young people to be pastors
• 53:02
  S6: and all that. He could understand that because I think
• 53:04
  S6: he was kind of a Roman Catholic. Yeah. But he said,
• 53:07
  S6: you know what, Samuel? I will check it out. I said,
• 53:09
  S6: for the sake of your. I said, first of all,
• 53:12
  S6: I said, you better get married now because you cannot
• 53:15
  S6: live like you're living. You have a child, I said. Secondly,
• 53:18
  S6: now let's say when you get married or your. Your
• 53:21
  S6: girlfriend has. I said, it will be good for your
• 53:23
  S6: girlfriend and your child to grow in a church. She
• 53:27
  S6: needs community, you know. Yes, both of us feel that way.
• 53:31
  S6: I said, how about you come to church on Sunday? Now,
• 53:34
  S6: what did I do? Just nothing. I just started talking. Right? Yeah.
• 53:38
  S6: So it's a common simple as people say, mundane conversation.
• 53:43
  S6: You start with a mundane conversation. How are you doing?
• 53:46
  S6: Where are you from? And then you bring the gospel
• 53:49
  S6: or you bring the testimony in that way. There's another testimony,
• 53:52
  S6: but we don't have time.
• 53:53
  S2: Doctor Samuel Newman, always such a joy. I want to
• 53:56
  S2: give you a link. This is going to link you
• 53:59
  S2: to the South Asian Friendship Center right here in Chicago.
• 54:03
  S2: Also call of Hope. I mentioned the ministry that he's
• 54:05
  S2: a part of reaching Muslims for Christ. Just text hope
• 54:08
  S2: to (800) 555-7898. Text hope to (800) 555-7898.