Latest / Curious Cat - where science & supernatural collide / Swimming in Liminal Waters with Daniel Rekshan

Transcript

Swimming in Liminal Waters with Daniel Rekshan · Curious Cat - where science & supernatural collide

• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Jesse, is that ever not gonna be weird?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Jen, do I look do I look like a little kid?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Look out.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look at me.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it looks it.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I look like the teacher and you look like the student that is in the naughty chair.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's because I'm having to use my other dumb camera because Oh, is that what it is?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it looks a web camera cuts out all the time.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what's I don't know what's going on with it.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you need to light some incense around it and and do some banishing on some of your technology.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm just gonna roll.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Just gonna roll.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, but before we introduce our our very special guest, which I'm so excited about, Jesse, you're probably so sick and be saying, Oh, I'm so excited, it's almost Friday.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love it.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love it when you get excited.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, um, this season because this is like our very first interview of this season seven, where we're just diving into the liminal waters.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're swimming in the liminal waters, man.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it the water is good.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Jump in, folks, come on in.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: The water's fine.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: You won't drown.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and if you do drown, you're supposed to drown, but it's metaphysical physical to drown.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll be fine.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, I feel like I'm gonna set back their soul journey because me, I'm gonna be like rescuing them.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be like, take that pool net thing and I'm gonna go grab it, grab it.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if they don't, I'm gonna dive in and I'm gonna like, you know how you grab people under their armpits and you drag them out of the pool.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I will do that for people.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, metaphysical floating.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's good.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the metaphysical noodle.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, today we have somebody that has been on my podcast.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a few years, and his name is Daniel Rekshan, and he is modest, first of all.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So he's not gonna tell you this stuff.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm we're gonna have to try to drag it out of him.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: But he's an artist, he's a dreamer, he's a hypnotist, he's a web architect, and he does a lot of other things in the world.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's a researcher, he is the chief dream officer of Dreamwell, which is this amazing, gorgeous, uh, very cerebral app that you can have to track your um your dreams.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's very simple and intuitive.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's also these tools that are plugged in that we can ask him about.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's also the founder, if I'm not mistaken, of D SETI, which is the dream study of extraterrestrial intelligence.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: He has, he's like us, Jesse, where he's written books on different subjects.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're like fiction writers, but um, I cannot wait to get into it with him.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so happy to welcome you to the show, Daniel.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm excited to be here.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: You've got such like a great energy.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I uh I I loved being on your podcast before and connecting uh a bit with your audience.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: So that was really uh super cool.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: And uh thanks for, I mean, thanks for uh reaching out.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm so glad you're here.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, and you know, not I don't want to swim in like waters that are difficult, but I have not seen you a lot of places recently.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you've been diving into maybe other places and it hasn't been as public-facing, but am I totally gone on that perception?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: No, you're a hundred percent right.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: So this is this is why I'm excited about it because for the last year and a half, I've gotten into like really weird spaces that are sort of uh for personally, they're they're moving towards the magical metaphysical kind of liminal space sort of thing, uh, taking my uh dream contact experiences very seriously.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, also some of the research I've been doing about UFOs, uh ET contact within the um kind of D SETI umbrella, the dream search for extraterrestrial intelligence.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's really I mean, that's a dark shadow thing in terms of the what's happening.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's a psyopy thing.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: It involves dreams so very in this liminal space so so importantly.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um so what ended up happening is I went on this whole shamanic experience, this dark shamanic journey thing.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they talk about dismemberment experiences and whatever.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I've been in the underworld and I know I've been in the underworld because I've actually been doing these, I've been doing podcast interviews with people for the last year.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: They have not seen the light of day.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm literally waiting to see will this podcast see the light of day or not?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because I've I've gone on podcasts, I've had interviews with people, they've gone, this has been the best I've done in a long time on this thing or whatever.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: It just doesn't get doesn't get published.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's because I've been in this sort of liminal space between what was before and what is after this kind of crisis or dismemberment thing or this journey.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm really uh happy to open up to the synchronicity of the moment to explore liminality, heter hetero, heteropia.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're just learning how to say it ourselves.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: We we we screw it up like every time, like every time I literally have it written on my arm like heterotopia.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I'm saying I used to have a cheat sheet here, but of course I clean my desk off.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, Daniel, what we're talking about, I feel like it so aligns, and I don't want to speak for you, but um, this liminal spaces, these in-between spaces, we have been indoctrinated in Western society that it's like pick a camp, uh, light or dark, evil or good, this or that.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And these in-between spaces, we are basically conditioned out of even noticing them.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Jesse brought up with me the other day that it's like even when we're driving, we get into this hypnosis where it's like, I remember point A, putting my kid in the car, going to school, or my dog going to the vet.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I remember point B where we got there, but what happened to the in-between?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we actually feel like there's so much gold, like soul work and gold to harvest in the in-between, but it's so fucking uncomfortable.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's really uncomfortable.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's messy, it's the messy middle.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if that aligns with what you've been going through, but that's some powerful stuff you've been going through, it sounds like.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it definitely aligns.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, all of my work is based on the liminal space between dreaming and waking.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: So that is that's really where it's at for me.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: I pay attention to that when I wake up from my dream.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I have a sometimes I have a dream journal practice, sometimes I don't.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I've I've uh I I am the chief chief dream officer of Dreamwell.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's sort of taking a back burner, to be honest, because of this intersection with AI and everything.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: How is how can we continue?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the technology and dreaming is a question for me too, in general.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm so proud of the work we did with Dreamwell.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: And yet there's this sort of when the rubber hits the road in terms of the actual business activity of bringing dreaming to the marketplace or whatever, it I'm I'm at a loss as to how to do it outside of just being who I am as a dreamer, that sort of thing.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: And that might not necessarily uh be technologized or with uh, or like AI, I'm sure you had a whole interaction.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't caught up on your most recent season, but I also had an interaction with it.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: So this is just to get back to the point that my work comes out of this liminal space between waking and dreaming.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm paying attention to it.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of my creative writing comes directly from that space.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'll wake up, I'll remember a dream, I'll think about that dream, and then I'll take some action based on that dream, which is oftentimes writing.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's oftentimes a lot of writing, is oftentimes art, or it's sort of a direction to go in, like reaching out to someone or something like that.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: So that's where a lot of my work comes out of, and it actually focuses on that space too, the liminal space, right?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: I've been focusing, I've been diving into the DSETI work.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: So that's dream search for extraterrestrial intelligence.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's really what guides me, the possible interactions we might have with intelligences that have been said to be non-human or demonic or alien or whatever.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: But we know that they're associated in part with this liminal space, right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: People use the words hypnagagia, sleep paralysis, entity encounters, hat men, shadow people, uh, old hag, um, space aliens.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um so that really shows up in that space.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: But what really I see constellated, whether or not I'm skeptical or credulous, is there are encounters that change people's lives that they testify about.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: This is more real than real.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's part of the thing they testify about, is oftentimes associated with like strong emotions and then also innovation, creativity, miraculous healing, right?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Shusha miraculous change of fortune, one way or the other.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like it could be negative or positive.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: Generally, I work with positive cases, I don't see a lot of like encounters that go super negative, but I'm really looking at people who are injecting a mindfulness, spiritual practice, and working with them.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: So um, and it sort of feels like as a culture, we're in a liminal space of waking up from certain dreams or nightmares into some other level of understanding, awakening or something like that.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: So um, I'm just focused on all of those things.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm happy to go in any direction you'd like to uh explore.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I feel like your um your approach, your mindset to dreaming is something that maybe we need to apply on a bigger scale.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we can like enact some sort of like a dreaming magic to um changing the trajectory of things in the world right now.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So to go back to that, how do you approach before you go to bed and being intentional with your your, I call it night swimming, but your, you know, your dream life?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, I will since since I have kids and it's busy, busy, busy.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: I have two, a two, a four-year-old and a 15-year-old.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just like crazy to think of meditate before bed all the time.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: Or like do these practices.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I will take certain times where I go, like, this is my practice.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: I am going to record every dream I write.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: I when I wake up, so I go to bed, I go like when I when I wake up, I'm going to record whatever impression I have when I wake up.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever it is, I'm going to use this dream journal.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: And just a regular dream journal, oftentimes now isn't enough for me to actually do that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm swimming in a fog of exhaustion or whatever.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really, I go, this is a special art book.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: I I do I call it, I give it a magical name.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, like the last last one summer ago was uh Lieber Oberon Magistar.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the book of the fairy mage.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: And then the one before that was uh Lieber Xenomanticarium's uh Libre Visionorum Xenomanticarium, which is like the book of magical alien visions.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: And for that one, I did I like went into lucid dream states to explore the ET contact phenomena.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: I would uh in that one, I I I studied uh crop circle geometry so much that I could construct it from memory, some of them, and I'd run through that geometry and use that geometry as a space of kind of connecting with whatever beings are associated with the crop circle.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: Now I have a very liminal interpretation of that phenomena that's neither white or black.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: Is it real?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: Is it aliens?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: Is it whatever?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's like my missing time hypothesis, the UFO hypothesis is dream and real.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: These these things in in with the crop circles, I believe that the sacred unfolding of the the putting up humans putting circles in crops is a magical ritual that summons the orbs that are associated with them.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, that that that that makes a lot of sense.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, it just blasted me right here.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that makes so much sense.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's literally what I was talking about, like using our dreams that liminal space to shape our actual world.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if it's um I had this dream that I feel maybe it relates.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I offer it in love, but it was so weird.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it happened a year ago, but it feels like I can tell you about it like I just watched the movie before we got on the call today.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: But in it, uh, my family was all gathered, and they were, you know, I have two older daughters, and we were all in this space.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it was this beautiful house.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like it was a verbo or something, and it was like a Frank Lloyd Wright type house, and it had all these gorgeous windows on one wall.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: There were all these built-in like uh couches and different things, and then there was you were looking out on a nature preserve, and I remember looking out at this like desert scaping, going, I want to go out and explore the nature preserve.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, in order to get down there, you go down these series of very low ramps to um stages of the house to get to these this door that leads you out.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: I go outside and I look around and I'm seeing the animals and the squirrels and the mirror cats and the things.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then I thought, it's a little hot.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go back into the house.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: I start going back to where the door is, and there was this tall, thin monkey man.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: He had short orange fur and he had this very pronounced tattoo on his head, and it was like to the side of his forehead, and he had his arms crossed and his like foot back, like he was a cowboy in a movie, propped up against the door.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he was looking at me with this look of like smugness.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't register it then, but I'm like, this is smug, and it made me feel uncomfortable.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I went in the house and I shut the door and I double-checked that I locked the door because he made me feel uncomfortable.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then as I was going past the first part of the house to go up to where my family was, I realized what I thought was a wine cellar to the right was actually prison.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was a prison, an old-fashioned like prison.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: It had these bars and I looked in and it was dark and there was no one in there.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I made a point to make sure that the door was open because I was like, I don't want anybody to be trapped in it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went up the next ramp and up the next ramp.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And all I could think about when I was with my family is I think we're in some other species nature preserve.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we thought we were in charge and we're not.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're not the shit.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, it stuck with me and I literally, it's like the weirdest dream.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the I can still tell you the look on his face.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I had to be up with my family when I registered.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: He was smug because he knew as I'm looking out at the little animals in the desert, he is like the the prison keeper of us in some way.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was so weird.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what to do with it, Daniel.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thanks for sharing.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I appreciate it.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: There's several resonances that I'd love to explore.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um first and foremost, I'll point to the year, the year marker, right?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: So you're like one year ago.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: I've been tuning into the dreams that actually show up uh on the year markers or the solstices for me.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah, it's nice.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's another synchronicity.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: I've been going back in on purpose in the last two weeks to a year ago.
• 16:36
  unknown: Wow.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: We are just past solstice.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: I've been uh I yeah, we are just past solstice.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: I had so uh a few years ago, I had a series of dreams involving a tall gray extraterrestrial uh that you know sort of speaks about the space that exists outside of time by which they like control things or whatever.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: So uh it never really talked to me about like the prison planet hypothesis, which is what you might you know call this, or like the the custodians from Dolores Cannon is a really appropriate book, I suppose, and that's perhaps what I'd more connect that with.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, but this this character uh I wrote a book about the interactions, uh, maybe since last we spoke, and it's called uh Galathog the Grey's Field Guide to Anomalous Geometry.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: I just saw it on a website today, and I was like, I have to buy this next.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: Cool.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's like the strangest book I've ever written.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and it's because of these these dream series that show up on on the year or solstice for a few years relating to this process of working with missing time, this liminal space, this liminal interpretation.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's both dream and it's real.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: It showed up in I dress as Galatog as a a dream character in the dream ball for the IASD once.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: I just like uh I'm I'm writing a blog post um about um there's a there's a there's a type of claim that comes up of that is related to body marks, right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: So this is all this is what I'm like the the the people wake up from these dreams that are like oh my god, like a reptilian was here.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's like oh my god, like if you you could have had that dream, you might have dreamt like maybe there was like a plugging in of like a tube, you might like wake up like exhausted, and then like in in the shower, your partner might be like, Oh my god, what's that on your back?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's a perfect grid of dust in a hexagonal pattern.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you go, like, oh, it wasn't there before.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know this dream.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: So um, that's what I've studied.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: Dozens and dozens of people have this.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: I had that, I had that experience, but instead of being like I was on a ship or whatever, I had this series of dreams where these entities would show up.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: One was the the the turtle that was the world, and it was a completely dark dream, but it was absolutely lucid.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: Then the next day, uh, it's like it's like a communication, like this is what lucid dreaming is is this sort of body awareness, the body sleeping, the warmth of the beds, the baby sleeping next to me, that's all in the field flowing in.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's this this whole world scape that that's happening that's not necessarily using these, and it's sort of jacked into different systems.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: And they were telling me, like, this is what lucid dreaming is.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: You think that lucid dreaming is flying around like Superman, uh, but it's not, it's actually being aware in this way, and it's a sort of people call it like by location or dual consciousness, or so they they use those sorts of sometimes it goes into out uh out-of-body stuff.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then the next time I had this dream that I remember in the liminal space, it was uh I was going through this long, long gray hallway of many, many doors, and I come back to the door that brings me right behind my eyes.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: But as I'm going through, I go like, I can't remember this.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: I can't remember this dream.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: Then I then the next thing that happened was I looked down and I saw this geometric body mark.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like a dot, a series of dots in a line.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then I went, oh my God, this is this is the marks I've been studying.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't, it wasn't the grid grid marks that I actually study, but it was something else.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then I had this memory of standing behind myself, kind of like doing a tattoo thing with this tall guy standing next to me, guiding the tool or whatever, sort of a scratch mark feeling.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: And it all happened all at once.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then I went, oh my god, this is geometry.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: This is a message from the other side, has come through.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Someday I'll be able to decode this.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: How do I decode this?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: I have no idea, and this is so weird.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: Let me just forget about it.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because I like was like writing, I wrote, I was finishing up the book Missing Time Found.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then six months later, to the day on the winter solstice, dream people showed up to me and they were like, I heard you want to be of service to others because I was doing Enochian magic rituals, angel communication.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, Okay, you want to be of service to others, do exactly what we say.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I go, Okay.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then so the next day I was like, okay, I'm supposed to do magic, I'll do a lot more magic.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: I got really serious about it.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: I took a break, I looked at like an ASMR video of a sacred geometry kind of like rock garden thing, and then I kept doing the magic.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: The next night in the dream, they were like, You did exactly what we asked you.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: You connected with geometry and art in a beautiful, relaxing way.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Now keep that up.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then they like, then they had a series of dreams where it was like mandalas were coming, but it was like like they would like take my baby, and then the baby would rotate around, and then there would be like 12 white Yetis that would come and dance in a form, and then I would like try my best to draw it out.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: I never did very well, but through that process, I ended up using ruler encompass geometry to interpret many of these body marks and crop surveys.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: And UFO formations in the sky.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so then it is a revelation or a communication that there is a tapestry of meaning here.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: That even if it's not like because a lot of these things will boil down to like someone sat on a bench or like there's bedbooks or like they scratch themselves, or they have they have one of the a dozen like psychosomatic body mark phenomena things that are documented but no one talks about.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um so that comes through, but that that's what this book, Gawathog the Great, is about, and that's what I'm connecting with your dream because of the kind of custodian theme that it relates to Dolores Canon, this sense of going down in levels through a portal to a space that I've been working this pre-cognitive dream I've had about going down, down, down into like this mountain portal space.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: So that's I connected that with your down through layers into a thing that's another realm.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And even the marking on him reminds me of what you were saying about the markings that people are reporting to you and that you had as well.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would be curious to hear about the tattoo.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you have any memories of that marking in the I I just remember dots and lines and maybe an arch and it was on one side of his face.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to remember as I came in, and it seems like I okay, um, you know, it was an awful movie, but Atlantis by Disneyland or Disney.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it so it was like blue, it wasn't black, it wasn't flesh colored, but I wonder if it was blue because it was in contrast, you know, it's a contrasting color to his orange fur that was super short and fuzzy all over his body.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I have it drawn.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have to send it to you afterward and see what your impression is.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I have it drawn in my my journal that I wrote it down in, but I just I don't want to end the conversation to go grab it because then my dog will follow me and God knows how long it'll take us.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I did have like this other experience when my dad died, I was so I almost became addicted to um because the veil was so close.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was like having such an ongoing conversation with him after he passed away.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was truly open to any experience and I was almost like craving it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was like a heroin addict.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, come to me if you're a gray alien, whatever the thing is.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I woke up one morning and there was a super tall gray alien standing over my bed.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I went, oh my God, I didn't mean in the house.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Get out of here.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was just gone.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: So the next day, or that same day, actually, it was in the morning.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: I went down and I was drinking coffee and my finger was hurting right here between the top joint of this like point pointer finger on my left hand.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what is in right here?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like there was like this little black stone in there.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, when did I get this sliver?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like freaking out because it kind of ached.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, get out of me.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I poked it out, and this thing came out of me that was this teeny tiny, it's like a guitar pick shape.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: So like that little teardrop shape, but it was teeny tiny, like a couple millimeters, and it was made out of carbon fiber.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, it was like a dragon scale, it was the weirdest thing that's ever happened to me.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, no one's gonna believe me.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And my college daughter was home, and I'm like, I gotta show it to Bryn.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I go grab scotch tape and I taped both sides of it up and I put it on a place where nobody would mess with it because I had to show Bryn.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then Bryn came down later because it's summer vacation, and I said, Bryn, you gotta see this thing that came out of me.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes, Mom, what happened to your finger?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I said, It's healing, but you got to see the thing that came out of me.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I go to find it and it's gone.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing in the scotch tape.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I had made this like little hermetically sealed pocket.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that was after my alien dream.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the only time I've ever had an experience with like a gray alien was when I basically ceded my free will to them, is what I felt like because I was so desperate to have one of those like things that happens to you that you're like, oh my God, life is worth living.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much more complicated and exciting and scary and fun and interesting than we could ever fathom.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, thanks for sharing that story.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's quite a quite a story.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um you were so not prepared for that.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, like the the story around implant, I mean, like, I'm so grateful for connecting about that.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: One of the one of the things I look for is um precedence for extraordinary phenomena, right?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like because that that that define the shape and size of the UFO abduction or the NHIET encounter phenomena, right?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: So people talk about implants or people talk about things showing up or disappearing or going places.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I go, I ought my my practice over the last three years has been to going, how can humans actually be the non-human intelligences in a way?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: So one of the things I think about in interpreting my own encounters and things like that is maybe that guide, Galathog the Gray, is actually some version of me moving through the dreamscape, coming back from eternity or something like that.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so then I start to interpret the body marks as communication.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: I go, how might I communicate with myself through these body marks?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then I go, oh, this is starting to make sense.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then I start to think, I start to look at people who have experiences like you, right?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like in terms of the there's a tall gray, not sure what's happening, there's a funny thing going on.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're you're like probably aware as to what kind of encounter that is in terms of like it's in your bad bedroom space, you're a dreamer, you're a visionary, you're tuned into that.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: But then there's also the physicality of it, which in my mind would point to the the phenomena of aports in part because it disappears.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: APort meaning like the spiritualists, they would bring forward cut gems out of their eyeballs or belly buttons.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: Are you aware of that?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is all new to me.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: This is a thing, yeah.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's the thing.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: So it's so the spiritualists, the spiritualist mediums, the like from the fox sisters and in Lilydale.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, um, they they would bring forward is like that in Santa's, they do ectoplasm too from their orifices, which is sort of like a cheesecloth type thing, it looks like uh it's in dark sand.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Delicious, I have nobody's eating right now.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a it was definitely a thing.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: They uh spiritual healers would say that they were ruining cancer from your body, and they would have like this ectoplasm in their hands and stuff like that.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh like like George Randy and a lot of those guys got it, you know, got into it, like try trying to see if those those guys were real or not, you know.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's all in the class of apports.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean the apports traditionally have been like cut gems, so they look like fake gems, they look like fake gems, they come through eyeballs or or like belly buttons.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: I believe personally, I believe that the phenomena is complicated, that it sets within an outer shell of hoaxing.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like there are hoaxes with this.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's definitely there's there's no question about it.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: Same thing with the abduction accounts, same thing with all these things.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's another phenomenon that's a little bit trickier that like actually exists beneath there.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm sure that's a kind of a liminal interpretation, right?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's both true and false.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because of people like you who have experiences, right?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: You you tell me about these things.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: I have experience talking to people that go like, I was in this room, then I was in that room after I saw one of them, right?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like that kind of thing.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: I was outside, my feet were dirty.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, Rama is like the like that kind of thing.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: So they're they're tracking physical examples of like teleportation.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: Traditionally, you might call that in the parasychology, it's like parateleportation, is the term associated with the teleportation with dreaming.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think that actually can account for a lot of the abduction evidence.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: The same thing with the implants, like the implants, like there's implants meaning the evidence of aliens that that are presumed to be it's presumed to be alien technology tracking you from these beings, right?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's what it's presumed to be at some level.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't, I don't know.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: There's a couple people I talk to about these things.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: I always go, like, wow, that's a really hard thing to study because you have to take it from someone's body or scan it in a in a way.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: The geometry of the body mark for me is beautiful because you can take a really fuzzy photo.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: I now have software that AI helped me write that just extracts it, does a process.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: So now I get it.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: The body mark just completely abstracted from the skin is a fuzzy photo as someone's already shared online.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, like the sh the the study of that's way easier than the implants, but yeah, I'm just I I'm just sort of grateful for that.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: The the sense of like it being in the tape and being gone before you communicate to a a second witness.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's interesting to me.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Were you saying, and I I I I could be wrong about what I think you alluded to this is that do you have a theory that potentially likes uh your your your character and and excuse me, I can't uh the the grade?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Galathog.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Are you sending messages to yourself with the markings?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like am I am I correct in that?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's correct, yeah, yeah.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh the best deduction I have is that in the future, in the future, I and others will have understood the phenomena of shared dreaming, the phenomena of uh like like precognitive dreaming or retrocausal dreaming, and will understand how the dreaming, the bodies uh the bodies by of which we inhabit in those shared eternal dream spaces, how that body interacts with the body of this world will have understood it, and then we're now causing the omens and the oracles to occur in this time now that compel our path forward, by which we as a group will then understand this telepathic precognitive retrocosmic.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: That is actually like that's something I'd never heard before.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Also, that makes a ton of sense.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it was McIntyre who said uh you'll know you've successfully created time travel because suddenly time travelers will appear all around you coming back in time to see the the first instance of successful time travel.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so you know what I mean?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's kind of that same sort of like weird, like or like uh it was like Prince of Darkness where he's sending himself messages back in time through like uh with tachyons or whatever.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, the and this reminds me, Jesse, you remember the dream I had last week.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I didn't know that this whole show is gonna be us interpreting my weird ass dreams, but here we are.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: I had this dream that I was in a grocery store and this young teenager came up to me and said, I just don't have the money to buy a bag of sugar.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know what they were gonna do with the sugar, but I said, Well, I'm a people pleaser and I'm a mom, so I'm gonna buy you a bag of sugar.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I grabbed the bag of sugar, I put it under my arm like a football, and because I'm a football fan, and I'm going to the cash register to pay for it.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden, this person comes over.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even register their face.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was so fast.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: And they grabbed my right arm and they held it out straight and they stuck this like bar scanner and they said, You don't mind if I mark you, do you?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they like shoved it on my skin and they poked, and it was like this hot poke into my skin of my forearm.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then they said, You don't mind if I mark you because you owe us$20 and get the bag of sugar, but you're on the hook for this um, this error, this errand, this favor you're doing for this kid.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not just buying a bag of sugar, there's more to it.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I woke up and I checked my arm.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, my arm was fine, and I'm like, holy crap! And it seemed so jarring, but I'm like journaling, journaling, journaling and going, you know, is it does it go back to that saying that like no good deed goes unpaid or whatever?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: You always like there's more to it when we make these um contracts with people, and it's like, or is it a way of telling me that it was like when you give, you have to be sure.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was even going down to the minutiae of like a bag that I have ready for the pet pantry.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I have no ties and tethers to this.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: All I wanted to do is bless the owners of the pets and the the pets themselves, but I have no ego.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have no, I want to cut all my ties and tethers to it as I give it to them because that's part of the gift giving.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know, but what I did know is I was like, I remembered at the very end when I was journaling.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I remember going, I'm not really comfortable owing you money.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I like grabbed a$20 bill out of my wallet and just gave it to the person.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Can you take the thing out of my arm now?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, No, it's not done yet.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it goes I'm suddenly convinced that you're sending yourself messages from the future.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm thinking.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, yeah.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: I am like literally in a constant hot flash right now because I didn't know what was doing with all your weird dreams, but like now that I talked to Daniel, I'm convinced you're sending yourself messages back.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Giving myself messages to me and reminding me to take back my energy when I'm doing these things.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because they told me it's called energy skimming.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: That was the other thing they gave me.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: They called it vampiric skimming or energy skimming if you don't take back your energy.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know those little skimmers that they're putting on like the um card readers at your gas station or whatever.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: They said you're unaware and you probably have thousands of them just out there, and the web is open, and they're no wonder you're always exhausted by nine in the morning.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought that was an interesting thing that they told me was energy skimming, because that really resonated with me.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it was me in a different form.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was kind of freaky.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was shorter, I must have been older.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was like Yoda short, and I'm already really pocket sized, like polypocket size.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I was really short and I had this little, and no wonder I couldn't see my face, Jesse, because there are lures about seeing yourself in a different time looking exactly as you are.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's all this lore about you don't want to break the space-time continuum.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what it is?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, whatever, something like that.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like it crashes the reality or something if two of you exist in the same place.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's a yeah, I think it's it's more a it might be an indoctrination, but it might be gonna be it's more a science fiction trope than it is anything else.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I wondered too.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, it's that's a good story trope, is all that is.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: This really does kind of uh relate to some of the themes I work with, right?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: Is like energy attachment, energy, because one of the things that I see is sort of like there in the interactions with the extraterrestrials or UFOs or that interpretation, there is a sort of oftentimes multiple layers of energy attachment thing, right?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: So one of the things that happens, and where I got to this understanding with this, this, this like myself from the future or ourselves actually, it looks collective to me.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: It does not look um particularly individual.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, why do we have kind of shared stories of the grays that look in these ways is because it's a shared story, it's not particularly individual.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: The little hairs, the like individual, like you know, that little monkey man, tall, tall orange monkey man.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if there's like tropes about short short-haired, tall monkey men with tattoos, but there are kind of that it is directly relatable to the custodian idea that's sort of um the question in my mind when I started interacting with these people in these spaces, because my practice has been I applied dream shamanism.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I I I started my practice with UFO abduction and missing time experiencers.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a classic alien abduction kind of idea, and then the derivative contactee experiences or the experiencer narratives.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: I work with those people, and there's I I one of my early cases was Sandra Newman, and that's available on YouTube.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: I had the whole regression, it was all about consent and gray alien abductions.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I worked from this perspective, because I didn't know necessarily how it was going to go as I first started applying the intuition of dream shamanism through regression hypnosis.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: It it started it basically that the understanding is that right with a dream, even if it's a nightmare, those nightmare monsters have wisdom for us.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: That if we interpret fully, we integrate the shadow, we move forward in life.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: Even if those sources are ultimately bad spirits, right, we have an engagement with it that we're vulnerable to at some level.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: They're pushing on our level levers.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: So we learn about ourselves in that.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: And if we return to the state of kind of understanding everything is love at a fundamental level, it's all fractaling out from source.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: We might see the negative dark things, the things that come from the outside and victimize us as perhaps something that we did, our higher self up there said yes to it, right?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: The question for me was how can we keep having these experiences against our consent and against our repeated consent?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: For me, I was like, okay, I don't consent.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: I would spend a long time writing out these kind of spiritual boundaries about how I work.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: I I mean I do meditation practices and stuff, and still they get through those gateways, right?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, you know, so either my gateways are bad and I just am completely deluded about everything I'm doing, or the things that sometimes seem like nightmares are actually guidance in some way, shape, or form.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: And if they are guidance and doing that to us, who else besides us at the most fundamental level could actually do that to ourselves?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that was the question I had.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: And like the openness of that thing.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then that's what brought me to this.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I mean, I am I'm by the way, by the way, by the way, I'm working with uh kind of a precognitive dream series about implants in my foot, about from from like right, like it's so it's like the and they in part are resolving, I hope, this this conflicted, this conflicted thing I was in about like doing these podcasts and them not releasing, right?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: Was like I'm on this shamanic journey that actually was going down these levels to a portal.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: It looked like going down into the um uh DC metro.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, except everything was black.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then scary there was a healing pool my wife was at, and my kids, and I go, Oh my god, they're there, but they're weeping.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: Everything is what she needs so much help.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I go, like, but she's in a healing pool, so everything's okay, like something.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I can heal the warts on my feet.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then I looked down, and instead of one wart, which I had at the time, it was three warts, and I started to pick them out, and as I pull them out, they the three warts became like uh they look like grasshoppers with with gray alien faces, like so it was like manic gray hybrids, and I started ripping them apart, and there were a sense of three.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: The three implants became three different segments, and as I ripped it apart, I was like, that and I I actually did have warts on my feet.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they finally did kind of remove, I used medicine for that, and then that corresponded with like synchronized, like around the solstice.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: I had another series of precognitive dreams that like guided me toward a shaman, like a shamanic path I'm exploring.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: The Pachakuti Mesa tradition that's like has a retreat center here.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: I just so happened to start like uh housekeeping at or whatever, because I've been in this funk.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: I've been in this shamanic funk.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because I go, like, I mean, like I'll show up and uh like all the podcast stuff I do, all the session work I do is all just like deeply meaningful and deeply for me, going like, you're on a journey, it's shamanic, it's resolving.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I go, like, God, I hope it resolves soon.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but these sorts of the the implant dream several years ago kind of pushed me to this moment to make a kind of decision to go, shall I lean into this path or not?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that really that really helped me.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I'm just sort of and now and now you reached out to me.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: A podcaster reached out to me in this, and I go, like, I hope you publish it.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, maybe that'll mean something.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's Jen will have this.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Jen will have this edited like this like in two hours.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then she'll be like it'll be on the schedule to like.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting that you're like, I'm on this journey.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: There is this stuff happening.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and like I I have been on this thing.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's been this kind of obsession the last couple of weeks because I've been working with the Morgan, um, who is this Irish um queen, uh, you know, goddess, kind of uh three in one.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everybody has their own interpretation who she is.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally was buying the book from a witch store in Denver, right over there.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the guy was like, it's no joke.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, working, are you are you sure you want to buy this book?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it is no joke to work with her.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: I go, I've been working with her for the last year and a half, and I didn't know her name until recently.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm just, I actually want to just like educate myself, like backfill my education about her.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: But how it relates is like, I have all these overlays of society saying there's all this darkness with her, she's this battle queen, she would like pick up the dead soldiers and they would be her shields, and there's all this lore around her.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, all that resonates with me is that she says that's the face everybody sees because they want to see that face of me.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: But when their belly is full of blood, they get to see other things, they get to see other faces of me.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, My belly is full of blood, and that is how I found you.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm seeing these other things.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: So just this week alone, I'm on a hike and I'm just like be bopping on my hike.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden, this lady stops me.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, Oh my god, right, are you going Morrison formation?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Yeah, that's where I'm headed.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes, There's this massive rattlesnake there, and I think it's dying all by itself on the mountain.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if this runner came past it.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: I saw him go past, and I don't know if he threw a rock, but he didn't kill it and it's dying.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Oh, okay.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Are you guys okay, you and your dog?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, We're okay.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden I just started bawling.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Whoa, emotional fire, you know, fire hose just happened out of the blue.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I was thinking about the snake dying on its own on the mountain, which is about to make me cry.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: And also how they were so close to that snake is dying.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so it could have bitten them just out of like an instinct, right?
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I went, okay, well, um, I will see what I can do.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I think I need a stick.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went looking in the brush for like a stick, and I'm like, how's a stick gonna help me?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know, but I grabbed a stick and I'm walking up and I got to this fork in the hiking path.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: I could pick the Red Rocks trail or the Morrison for formation.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I had wanted to go the Morrison formation when I set out, and that's where the snake was in the middle of the trail.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: She showed me a picture of it, it was massive.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like it, I could have put my arms around it.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was probably a 30-pound rattlesnake, huge.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and it's dying up there.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I do I need to be with this snake while it dies.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Am I going to help it cross over?
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is happening to the mountain?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're losing this guardian.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just so emotional and I was just bawling as I'm and I went, I'm choosing not to go the Red Rocks way to but to go up the other way.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I had this experience, and there was this couple, and he was like, I just got to keep people safe because I think it's dying.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, That's what I've gotten too.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: So he did the compassionate thing and he killed it.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm sitting here under my breath, just praying and letting it cross over and see the light, and I'm sorry for the mountains loss.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm still digesting what happened, but it really does relate to my studies with the Morrigan because in order to not romanticize war, you have to also be in the thick of it and say, I don't want that to be the be-all and end all.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: I need to picture what I want to happen.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Why did the snake die?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Why did those soldiers pass away during the battle?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: What are we building now?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I she was literally showing me that.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's been kind of this journey with me of seeing the dark and the light, but I've had this kind of angsty kind of energy this whole week.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can ask Jesse.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've been lighting up his texts with it.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they say that in order to enjoy or have the moments of lightness, you also have this counterweight of having a dark moment.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is that true?
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm looking for the truth of that.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Does that mean that like if something good happens to me, something of equal weight that's bad is gonna happen next to me?
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been my thing of like, is that true, or is it that a false dichotomy that you know, Western society has kind of been force feeding us?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying you have the answers, but you've been on this journey that's been so gnarly and angsty and interesting.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: It what are the fruits of it?
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, the the my journey, right?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I I worked with uh worked with missing or still do missing time experiencers, abductees, that sort of thing.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_03: And then I went to study it and the California Institute for Human Sciences, it's an online PhD program, and then I raised ethical issues about harmful false memories that the research kind of elucidated.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_03: I go, oh my god, there's a whole pattern of people abusing these victims, these powerful dreamers, and they're like harvesting their stories for profit.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and I go, this is an issue.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: It created biases that our contemporary uh academic academy is like perpetuating, harmfully.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_03: This is an issue.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I raised that issue in a kind of a book-length uh document, and I I didn't get a great response because lo and behold, three months ago I find out the president of the California Institute for Human Sciences, that's Jeffrey A.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: Martin, and the distinguished professor of consciousness studies, Deepak Chopra, are in the Abscene Files in a very condemning way, and that the accreditation and opening of this space of uh anomalous studies was in part, I believe, because of an extremely kind of gnarly, gnarly thing.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I go, oh my god, I'm swimming in this space of gnarly nightmare of society, right?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like Daniel.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I am actually very hopeful about I know it's this is why I've been in this shaman thing or the shaman darkness, because I'm like trying to process it.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_03: It came up.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: I've like try to tell people, and it's like it is you go, like, it feels like being um it's the worst I told you so ever, isn't it?
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's the worst victory lap ever.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, and like there's so many controversies or like you you know the 2017 New York Times kind of article about UAPs coming down, and then there's a series of stuff coming about about mainstream credibility of of experiencers, and it's like if you look at the actual people that they point to and track their histories, it gets gnarly.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's like like abuse of people seeking support by the people propped up by this institution.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I could write about it, but I go, who will actually listen?
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: Who will change because of it?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_03: What is what's the dream we're dreaming together as a as a people that will bring us to this hopeful thing or not?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I go, okay, my belly is full of blood here.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: I cannot hear about any more uh ethical violations or whatever, because ultimately those ethical violations and stuff like that that I've been wrestling with, the Epstein network infiltration of consciousness studies, noetic science, which is not brought forward because there's more important things in this world that people are talking about now.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_03: But actually, for those who are concerned with noetic science and consciousness studies, I would be highly skeptical and I would cross-reference all of my all of the people I read with the Epstein files, and it would be very illuminating, right?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: So um, which is what I did, and which is why I forgot academia is not it for me.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_03: Noetic science, no thanks, consciousness studies.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: Forget about it.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm going the shaman path, I'm going the magic way.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but it's also it it it's also reflected, and thank you for sharing with us about your your dream about your family being in the healing waters, and you're going down this dark path, and they're in the healing waters safe and sound, and you know it's all love and they're okay, but you're you're literally festering with these warts of like, what have I been walking?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: Who have I been walking with on this journey?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you're trying to, and and I was trying to warn people, but you did what you could there, but it's time for you to dip in the I'm not saying I tell you what to do on your journey, you're in your journey, but it's like take a swim in the healing waters with your family because you did everything you were called to do, and it wasn't your job to deliver the newspaper to every single person and do and make them read it too, look over their shoulder.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: You basically wrote a book bringing up all these concerns, okay.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like you, you, you, you did what you could, man.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's available for free on my website.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's called the Risk of Anomalous Retrocognition.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's acronymed, yeah, Risk of Anomalous Uh Retro Cognition.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I bet we know some more people who would be interested in reading that too.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I do too.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because that it is, I mean, you know, you're speaking also to authors, and it's like, you know, there's been authors that have been outed with this, and it's like my instinct was never to follow that author and to not even read their stuff.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I I don't know why, but I was like, I'm not gonna be in that camp or whatever, and it's not my vibe.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then this stuff comes out, it's like, uh, we have friends right now that are trying to make amends with I can I love the art, but he like really have disdain for the artist, uh, the actual person and what they were doing.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: These are this is a liminal space right now where we care, we care and we notice, and it's like me crying over the freaking snake.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: I come home and my husband's like, that snake could have killed you.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I know, but I'm still crying for it because the mountain lost a guardian.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: How many times did I walk past that snake?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it heard my it heard me covering, coming well coming, and it tucked into a boulder to hide from me, but it watched me pass, and we were friends, and I didn't even know it.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I someone needs to sit and mark the loss of it.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like as awful as these people being in the Jeffrey Epstein is, I'm just gonna say it.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have to find a way to say their higher selves are also going, What were we doing?
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if we're all one, then I have to care deeply about the flawed failure of a person that showed up in this lifetime that we're witnessing.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: I have to.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have to pray for the school shooter as well as the people of the school.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: I have to.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's not popular.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: People get pissed at me for it, but that's just who I am.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's this liminal space we're swimming in right now.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of sticky waters.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it is.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_03: I I I follow your kind of uh perspective of praying for the praying for the other side too and seeing the unity there.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_03: That for me is the the bodhisattva path and is sort of being of service to others.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: Not necessarily for me, I I turned to that path not because of uh like not because I had the heartfelt feeling or embodied feeling, but because logically I go, we are actually connected.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_03: There will not be a sort of enlightenment until that kind of happens.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so that that's the sort of philosophic resignation I have to that orientation.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: And it's been it's proven really well for me.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like I like I said, I will I'll say my prayers and vows from those that perspective.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_03: And then the other side or the the future selves or what higher selves, they show up, they show up in dreams that are like the outside coming in in a way, right?
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like like the dreams that help me cause the body marks, interpret the body marks, do all of these things.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: The many precognitive, I know about the precognitive dreaming because of the my tracking my own dreams and how they informed me about these people in the program, right?
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like I go, I wrote I wrote 300 pages of ethical concerns that really kind of make it very clear to me.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_03: I at some level defined my ethical stance, knew what was going on, but was completely unconscious about it because I precognized a lot of it.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like I would have a dream, and then I would like wake up and search the internet compulsively and then find the symbol I dreamt about and go, like, oh my god, this is a message.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it would be a direct message that I could incorporate in my writing.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so that for me is lived proof that's this kind of unity consciousness idea that we are all one, being of service to others in that way, and also working with our dreams as kind of dreamers who like you impact people through your dreams.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_03: Your dreams will share your shared dreams impact people positively or negatively.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: Your optimism or pessimism will ripple out just because you have a podcast, you you're you're exuberant in that way.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so we uh dreamers, we as dreamers have this responsibility in this liminal space to kind of navigate whatever's going on.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, I go, okay, whatever's going on could be really gnarly, but actually, in my lived experience and like working with people, there is a feeling of guidance, there is a moving forward, there is a capacity to tune more into this love and light and manifest it out, and there is a sort of choice, and that that path, when I actually see it, unfolds through this thing that seems precognitive, retrocausal, it sort of is a liminal space between eternity and time, right?
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's in between those.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I see as a society, because you talked about how we need to, as a society, do shared magic or whatever to move us forward.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_03: We actually are, we actually are.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_03: We've been seeing the time travelers or whatever from the 50s or 60s, the gray aliens, the abduction cases, the cases that have been really brought forward and popularized, if they're not outright hoaxes and actually do point to this what used to be defined as the UFO abduction syndrome, which is people who have dreams of aliens who have marks on their body and lights in the sky come visit them, more or less.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, those people testify to extended human capacity, is what I believe is happening.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_03: Can you imagine if we instead of thinking that aliens caused this, that we were actually capable of teleporting through balls of light we summon, right?
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like, which is consistent with which is consistent with a lot of like um indigenous stuff that if you kind of go like, is there a precedent for this?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_03: There's like, yeah, there's a precedent for it.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just us who haven't figured it out yet.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_03: We think it's space aliens or whatever.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I think in part there's this huge component in the political landscape that works with these stories that is kind of charged because in the future that part will kind of tune into its wisdom.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: That part of our society that is sort of like intelligence community, psyopy, kind of the UFO abduction thing or whatever.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that will actually wake up and go, Whoa, these are actually human capacities.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_03: Let's work it together in a way.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_03: And that in a sense will really create a different landscape, a different world to live in, just as AI has transformed computer world.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like it can you imagine, you know, just uh an internet connected population of eight billion people, probably some percent of them are active dreamers in this way, and some percent of those have these extended capacities.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's sort of like set in proportion because it's a skill people need.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_03: Some people need to be math heavy, math-oriented, some are like musical, some some just teleport accidentally because space dreams of space aliens visit them or whatever.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_03: And that could be useful to society in a way, and that really does give me hope because of the time travel aspect of this.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: I really love that, and you know, it kind of goes side by side with you know, people that uh believe it or not, they talk about like Bigfoot or Sasquatch as being like an interdimensional thing.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that that is us.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: What if we do like future us is has learned how to navigate these dimensions and and like when we look to um, you know, in times of we need some guidance, we need some confirmation.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna look out the window and say, I a hawk is my sign that I am on the right path, we're having the right conversation, the right person is is going to the podcast and going to be on.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's a hawk circling outside, for example, but that's like us playing also with the rules that us in this meat suit, this insold meat suit, are um setting for the game.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh before we close, I was just wondering if there's this aspect of um, and I don't know if it's like dogma from um spiritual gatekeepers, or if there's an aspect of that liminal space when you're waking up from a dream and you're kind of capturing the crumbs of the dream, the feeling of it, and you're keeping it for your guidance for the day.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything that you feel we need to like then close the door to that or cut cords to what we've been doing in our night swimming?
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any aspect to that or do we not need to worry about that?
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's a good question.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_03: I don't personally don't worry about it myself.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: I use sort of my my general spiritual orientation and vows to sort of serve as a as like uh protection in those spaces.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_03: I would say actually, we need to develop habits that create more openness and bridging.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so for me, that's having the habit of recording your dreams and stuff like that, but specifically the habit of taking action on your dreams, on those spaces.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_03: There's a message for you.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_03: Take some action, do a creative thing, be the type of person.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: This is really important to be the type of person that receives messages and takes action.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not the particular action per se in the morning that you need to worry about.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's just being that type of person, because then that builds a bridge between us and the the dreaming space, the the place where you go night swimming.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, there's necess you necessarily need to be hygienic, right?
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like, like if you if you like go to bed thinking about you go, like, I'm going to night swim to like this place, and like you're you're watching a horror movie, right?
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's not gonna work well.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's like dreams respond to set setting intention, attitudes, all sorts of things.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, really setting an intention and then developing the capacity to be that type of person that receives the messages, takes the action, that means you develop the strength of being able to mediate your own fortune.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: And that's actually really important.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, will you take an action, a precognitive message or not?
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_03: If you are the type of person, you'll get more of those messages.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're the type of person that does it for the people around you as well, like you're like, hey, I had this crazy dream.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_03: You were in this car accident, don't go, or like change your way or whatever.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like, there's a whole etiquette around sharing that and it responds to cultural beliefs and attitudes in part.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_03: But that that's actually, I think, what the other side, the dreaming side, the higher selves of us want us to do and need us to do at this moment is to really open the doors because we need some creative solution at this point.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_03: And dreams are a wonderful place to get that.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_03: I would say, like, prop open the door a little bit at this point.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I I'm gonna have links to um the your app, uh Dream Well, in the show notes, of course, and everything else, because I really encourage everybody listening to download it.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it is a pay as you go, you know, pay what your heart says to do um for the app.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it is so impactful because there's tiny little lessons and they're not preachy, it's literally intuitive, it's beautiful.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it the artistry behind it is is on point.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's also this dictionary that has that has be like evolved with the app as well.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I love the dictionary.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: You thank you.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's um this is one of the I mean this opens up a whole new door to conversation around using AI and things like that.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_03: That and so um I have many, many, many thoughts around in that.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for calling that out.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's one of the best work we've we've done, and it's like really, really impactful to look at a hundred uh two hundred thousand dreams and go, like what do people actually dream?
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_03: What does it look like and things like that?
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_03: So um in addition to the dream well stuff, I'd love to call out the DSETI work because I mentioned some books, and again, this is a pay as you go sliding scale donation thing.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_03: All of my writing that I've mentioned, the missing time found, all the books are now available as web web pages basically on the website dSETI.org.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you can still order them from Amazon and uh and get print copies like you have.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my wife did beautiful covers, so shout out to her.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: Gorgeous covers, they are all just stunning.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, and and you know, you know, we just came off the heels of an AI um uh season, and so it's so nice to see human-made art and also that like with the dream well with the dictionary that you don't use an LLM, you that's right, yeah, then that's intentional.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yep, yep.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_03: Everything I'm doing now, I use LLMs sometimes, but all my writing, all my stuff now is is is all me for better or worse.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I do want to I do want to say because we mentioned dreams and body marks, this happens to me a lot.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_03: Someone in your audience will likely have something.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like they go, like, can you like can you tell me about this triangle or whatever?
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I can.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm writing uh another book.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_03: The reason why I put everything out and I'm putting all my like is I'm writing another book about this to really explore the exact thing we're talking about, the kind of precognitive, shared dreaming experiment.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm looking at, I go, okay, if this was a message from me from the future, what if all of the marks I could collect and find on the internet are actually a shared message?
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like let's let's explore that together.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so the the way to kick that off is send me a message, Daniel at dCETI.org.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's email.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_03: You can get information on the website dCETI.org.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: And this is really where I'm focusing now.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_03: This is what I'm doing the the dream magics for.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, I I see because of the dreams you've shared, there's like correspondences.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_03: There's a correspondence with almost everything we said, even the Morgan.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I go, like, uh, there's something here.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that the bet?
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, we just we knew, I think, before we even hit record, but it still blows my mind because it was so funny.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: I asked my guides this morning, I'm like, what what extra prep do I need to do so that we show up, you know, for Daniel the way we need to?
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, you just need to lay on the floor and listen to a Tom Kenyon Hathar um channel chant.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I went, okay.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I just laid on the floor with my dog and did that.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and look at the conversation.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying it was just I have no preparation, but that's on purpose because Jen doesn't tell me uh ahead of time.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_01: On purpose, I don't know.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she doesn't tell me anything else.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, if I because if I would have known there was like a dream city, I would have been like, What?
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: What are you talking about?
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_01: What this is yes, what so yeah, this is the rest of Jesse's weekend ahead.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: DC now now I'm now I'm obsessed.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so yeah, that she she doesn't give me any forewarning.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: So uh you know, so my mind can be blown in during the conversation.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we we love you so much, Daniel.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_00: We I love the work that you're doing in the world, the path that you've decided to go down, and also just know you always have a home here.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: So when your next book comes out, not only are we gonna buy it, uh, but we would love you to come back and oh my god, yes, share it with us, please.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, perfect.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_03: Anytime I will.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_03: Anytime.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's such a such a blessing, such a such a beautiful connection.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you to your audience.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you to everybody listening and thank you so much, Daniel.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Have the best day ahead.