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Chuck & Buck 11-6 Hour 3: 12th Man Roundtable · Chuck in the Morning

0:23
Speaker 1: Friday o'clock hour Here on a Thursday, Ashley Ryan Bucky
0:26
Speaker 1: Jacobson is back with calloused hands after rescuing his family
0:31
Speaker 1: from a fallen tree yesterday.
0:33
Speaker 2: Lumberbuck is here to talk sports.
0:36
Speaker 1: After acting like a manly man, yeah for twenty four hours, well.
0:41
Speaker 3: Very manly for about eight hours, and then felt very
0:44
Speaker 3: old and injured, just almost You.
0:47
Speaker 2: Just got to get back into the habit of doing
0:49
Speaker 2: it every day. Not going to do that. Oh, don't
0:51
Speaker 2: want to be a logger. I know that, all right.
0:56
Speaker 1: Well, Chuck Powell here and of course every Thursday at
0:59
Speaker 1: this time on twelfth Man Roundtable where we talked from
1:02
Speaker 1: Seahawks football with our Seahawks experts, our Seahawks insider Greg Bell,
1:06
Speaker 1: and also our QB one top analyst around these yere parts.
1:10
Speaker 1: You Millan is with us here on Chuck and Buck
1:13
Speaker 1: in the mornings.
1:13
Speaker 2: Good morning man, Good morning.
1:15
Speaker 4: All right.
1:16
Speaker 1: Well, we've got news to discuss, and that is an
1:20
Speaker 1: NFL trading deadline that brought the Seattle Seahawks one Rashid
1:24
Speaker 1: Shahed this week. And so Greg, I'll just ask you
1:28
Speaker 1: first how all this came together and why Rashid Shaheed
1:32
Speaker 1: is a Seattle Seahawk today.
1:35
Speaker 5: Well, the Saints are one and eight, that's the first thing.
1:38
Speaker 5: And the teams that are one and eight with expiring
1:40
Speaker 5: contracts want to get draft picks before they lose them
1:43
Speaker 5: for next to nothing. And Rashid Shaheed has an expiring
1:46
Speaker 5: contract at the end of the season. He's an All
1:49
Speaker 5: Pro from twenty twenty three with kick returns and wide
1:53
Speaker 5: receivers only seventy catch season, but he had a great
1:56
Speaker 5: kick return season as well.
1:57
Speaker 4: He's going to do both of those things for Seattle
1:59
Speaker 4: as well. So they did it because they think that
2:04
Speaker 4: they are.
2:05
Speaker 5: On the cusp with something offensively, and we've talked about
2:07
Speaker 5: how this is not how they were designed to run.
2:09
Speaker 5: They were supposed to run the ball out more effectively,
2:12
Speaker 5: but they're still running in enough that teams are stacked
2:15
Speaker 5: in the box against him. They faced more stack boxes,
2:18
Speaker 5: meaning eight or more in the box near the line
2:20
Speaker 5: of scrimmage and any team in the NFL. So even
2:23
Speaker 5: with Smith and Jigba leading the NFL in yards or
2:27
Speaker 5: twenty yard plus catches with eleven, they're still seeing stack boxes.
2:32
Speaker 5: So now they're going to get a true blow the
2:34
Speaker 5: top off the defense. Guy that runs down the field
2:37
Speaker 5: his average targets yards to target is seventeen point six
2:41
Speaker 5: this season. That's two yards more than Smith' and Jigba.
2:44
Speaker 5: So they're going to send him over the top of
2:47
Speaker 5: these defenses that have been packed in the line of
2:49
Speaker 5: scrimmage with the hopes of eventually the single high safety
2:53
Speaker 5: coverage becomes too high safety, meaning Molly pull one of
2:55
Speaker 5: those guys out of the box to make it easier
2:57
Speaker 5: to run, to have those run lanes less clocked. That's
3:00
Speaker 5: a very simplistic answer to why Shaheed is here, and
3:06
Speaker 5: it's going to be interesting to see if defenses actually
3:08
Speaker 5: do this. Mike McDonald, defensive mind yesterday said, Wow, it's
3:11
Speaker 5: not quite that simple that if you add a deep
3:13
Speaker 5: guy that the defense is going to change. The defense
3:15
Speaker 5: is what it is, and they did the best ones
3:18
Speaker 5: do what they do. As he said, he'd throw their fastball.
3:21
Speaker 5: So the best teams they're gonna have to play. The
3:23
Speaker 5: Rams and the forty nine ers the rest of the
3:24
Speaker 5: way aren't suddenly going to junk their defensive schemes because
3:27
Speaker 5: they have Shaheed.
3:28
Speaker 4: But it's it's some.
3:30
Speaker 5: Of the other teams that they're playing in the meantime
3:33
Speaker 5: that will change.
3:35
Speaker 4: If they're going to start sending twenty.
3:37
Speaker 5: Five thirty forty yard routes to a guy who runs
3:39
Speaker 5: twenty two miles an hour down the field. That's the thinking.
3:42
Speaker 5: And oh, by the way, I've done a lot of
3:45
Speaker 5: these now for twenty plus years. I can't remember a
3:48
Speaker 5: guy who showed up in three hours after he first
3:50
Speaker 5: stepped in the building says this is my long term home.
3:53
Speaker 2: Wow.
3:53
Speaker 5: He hadn't even taken a practice yet, and he said,
3:56
Speaker 5: we're going to figure out the contract.
3:57
Speaker 4: I'm going to resign here and this is my long term.
4:00
Speaker 2: It is a beautiful facility. I'll give him that very well.
4:04
Speaker 4: A blowy rady forty yeah, yeah, day.
4:11
Speaker 2: All right here, what do we got in Rashicha? What
4:14
Speaker 2: are you seeing on film? Well, first of all, I
4:17
Speaker 2: agree with most of what Greg said, But Greg, you
4:21
Speaker 2: know the part about acquiring him to loosen up the
4:25
Speaker 2: heavy boxes. First of all, Mike McDonald was asking, Hey,
4:31
Speaker 2: are you trying to change how defenses play you by
4:33
Speaker 2: stretching the field with speaking Yeah. And and this is
4:39
Speaker 2: Mike McDonald's quote. I don't think we're trying to dictate
4:43
Speaker 2: structures or anything. It's as simple as this guy can
4:47
Speaker 2: really help us, and then he went on to say,
4:49
Speaker 2: we got assimilate him right. Then he was asked another
4:53
Speaker 2: question similar to that. Uh, and it's you guys have
4:57
Speaker 2: faced maybe the highest percent of loaded boxes can receed
5:02
Speaker 2: with his deep threat ability. Change that and right and
5:07
Speaker 2: so and this is available. You can just go on
5:10
Speaker 2: s X dot com and watch. This is for anybody.
5:13
Speaker 2: If my interpretation is misguided, he says. McDonald says, well, uh,
5:19
Speaker 2: I mean, and he's kind of like looking for and
5:23
Speaker 2: then he says yes. But he then says, immediately, I
5:27
Speaker 2: think different teams operate under different modes of operation and philosophies.
5:33
Speaker 2: And then he went on to say, you know, some
5:35
Speaker 2: teams are too high structures and then they mix it
5:39
Speaker 2: up with single high and vice versa. And he sums
5:42
Speaker 2: it up and he says, I guess what I'm saying
5:44
Speaker 2: is I think it's a week to week thing, meaning
5:48
Speaker 2: based on the opponent. So that's point number one, point
5:51
Speaker 2: number two. As far as the running game, now, look,
5:54
Speaker 2: there's different ways to First of all, if a heavy
5:59
Speaker 2: box is an eight man front, well, if you're running
6:02
Speaker 2: more twelve and twenty one personnel than other people, you're
6:04
Speaker 2: gonna see more of that, I prefer to think of
6:07
Speaker 2: it as a heavy or a light box, because sometimes
6:10
Speaker 2: a seven man front can be a heavy box based
6:12
Speaker 2: on your formation. And so when you go middle of
6:15
Speaker 2: field closed, that's that that would be the heavy box.
6:18
Speaker 2: The numbers are the yards per rush for the Seahawks.
6:23
Speaker 2: They're four point three against close. Now this is from
6:26
Speaker 2: the NFL staff portal on middlefold field open the splits
6:31
Speaker 2: safety defenses, their yards per rush is three point two
6:37
Speaker 2: less than a yard or more than a yard less.
6:39
Speaker 2: The rush success against the single safety forty. Rush success
6:46
Speaker 2: drops to thirty three point seven percent. So you've got that.
6:50
Speaker 2: And then the final I'm gonna go to Pete Carroll
6:54
Speaker 2: after the twenty twenty season, when asked about uh, he says,
6:59
Speaker 2: we have to run the ball better. Uh, not even better,
7:03
Speaker 2: we have to run it more. He says, we have
7:06
Speaker 2: to dictate what's going on with people and what they're playing. Frankly,
7:09
Speaker 2: I'd like not to play against too hot, too deep,
7:14
Speaker 2: two two deep looks all season long next year. So
7:18
Speaker 2: here was Pete Carroll saying saying, I don't want to
7:21
Speaker 2: have I want to invite a heavy box. And because
7:26
Speaker 2: he thought that, it opened up with the passing game,
7:27
Speaker 2: So I would say, caution what it does and unintended
7:32
Speaker 2: consequences having having heavy boxes that allow Sam donald to
7:39
Speaker 2: throw and get more one on ones on the outside
7:41
Speaker 2: and what have you. That's the strength of the football team.
7:43
Speaker 2: So so I think, uh, there's a lot too. I don't.
7:46
Speaker 4: I don't.
7:47
Speaker 2: I don't get any sense. Maybe others did. I didn't
7:50
Speaker 2: get any sense from Mike McDonald that that's the reason
7:52
Speaker 2: why they acquired him. He said, he said, quote, this
7:56
Speaker 2: is as simple as as a guy can really help
7:58
Speaker 2: us now to answer chuch question real quick. The guys
8:02
Speaker 2: five times ten and a half with thirty one inch
8:04
Speaker 2: arms and one eighty five that would scream to me
8:06
Speaker 2: slot receiver if that's all I knew about it. But
8:11
Speaker 2: this year he's been in the slot forty two percent
8:13
Speaker 2: of the time, and last year with Clint Kobiak, because
8:18
Speaker 2: a Saint he was, he was in the slot twenty
8:22
Speaker 2: five percent of the time. And his receptions are are
8:25
Speaker 2: pretty paralleling those those numbers. Uh, this is a guy
8:28
Speaker 2: that that has has really good speed and quickness you
8:32
Speaker 2: would expect at that at size they had to play
8:36
Speaker 2: with the Saints. They lined him up at tailback and
8:38
Speaker 2: just tossed him the ball as if he was Alvin Kamara.
8:42
Speaker 2: On a second and three he got four yr. You
8:44
Speaker 2: don't do that unless you have a high ability about
8:48
Speaker 2: AA guys running ability and be his toughness. As far
8:53
Speaker 2: as you know, I just think that what I see
8:56
Speaker 2: on tape, I think I think he does most every
9:00
Speaker 2: thing really well. I don't think he does anything great.
9:03
Speaker 2: You know, his best attribute is his long speed. I
9:06
Speaker 2: saw an eighty seven yard on a high corner route.
9:10
Speaker 2: His ball tracking in hands are okay, run after the
9:13
Speaker 2: cats decent. And I'll close with this against I filtered
9:18
Speaker 2: all number two receivers in the NFL based on targets,
9:21
Speaker 2: and he's he was the number two at Saints. The
9:25
Speaker 2: yards per game at fifty five, that's the ninth best.
9:29
Speaker 2: His snaps his fifth, he was fifth. Receptions game, he
9:33
Speaker 2: was third four point eight nine. Now EPA expected points
9:39
Speaker 2: that that falls down to twenty five, but that there's
9:42
Speaker 2: a quarterback component to that. In first downs he's six.
9:46
Speaker 2: So I think I think that he kind of slots
9:49
Speaker 2: as a middle of the road number two. And if
9:53
Speaker 2: you get that the depth and all the things and
9:56
Speaker 2: add a little bit of speed, concerns about Cooper Cup.
9:59
Speaker 2: Sorry that's a long answer, but I think it's quite
10:01
Speaker 2: a topic today, what's going on with Rashid Shaheed? And
10:05
Speaker 2: I got more on my notes. Yeah, Greg, what is
10:07
Speaker 2: the plan for the usage of him?
10:10
Speaker 1: I mean, because if I'm to read based off of
10:13
Speaker 1: Hughes comments and just what I've seen from the New
10:15
Speaker 1: Orleans Saints the last couple of years, I think previously
10:18
Speaker 1: he was just a deep threat and then maybe this
10:21
Speaker 1: year playing slot a little bit more based on the percentages,
10:25
Speaker 1: they wanted to get the ball in his hands more
10:27
Speaker 1: and it's led to fewer yards per catch by a
10:30
Speaker 1: long margin. So I mean Clint Kubiak was using him
10:35
Speaker 1: as in a different way than what Kellen Moore has
10:37
Speaker 1: been using him this year. So what would the plan
10:40
Speaker 1: be for the Seahawks and how they're going to use him?
10:42
Speaker 1: As far as you can tell, you've only been around
10:44
Speaker 1: this project for forty eight hours here.
10:47
Speaker 5: Yeah, I haven't seen him even run down the field
10:49
Speaker 5: yeah practice yet, but I will tell you the idea
10:52
Speaker 5: is that he's the deeper guy that Smith and Jigba
10:55
Speaker 5: who's getting about fifteen yards per target, and this guy
11:00
Speaker 5: Shaheed getting seventeen plus yards of target that they're gonna
11:04
Speaker 5: go with him as the deeper guy. That eighty seven
11:06
Speaker 5: yard touchdown against the Giants that you mentioned, he ran
11:09
Speaker 5: twenty one point seven miles an hour as the fast
11:11
Speaker 5: of week five. He's got two of the ten fastest
11:14
Speaker 5: time measured runs with the ball in his hands this season.
11:19
Speaker 5: So that's not what cup is. Cup is six point
11:21
Speaker 5: six average yards to target and Tory Horton actually leads
11:26
Speaker 5: its team right now with just over fifteen yards per target.
11:29
Speaker 5: And we have talked on this show that Hugh Millan
11:31
Speaker 5: has mentioned a couple of times how Tory Horton has
11:33
Speaker 5: been running free at times and they've not thrown Darnold
11:36
Speaker 5: has not thrown to him and thrown to Smith and
11:37
Speaker 5: Jigbit instead. So they have a intermediate guy. Intermediate in
11:43
Speaker 5: the sense of where his routes go now yards after
11:45
Speaker 5: catch for Smith and jig but turns into twenty plus
11:47
Speaker 5: and he leaves the NFL in those catches eleven of them.
11:50
Speaker 5: But I think the patterns are going to be deeper
11:54
Speaker 5: because he's faster Shahi, so they're going to run twenty
11:57
Speaker 5: plus routes rather than catch and run plus gains that
12:00
Speaker 5: they've had with Smith and Jigba. The idea would be,
12:03
Speaker 5: if you have him Shaheed running the deeper routes, there
12:06
Speaker 5: should be even more intermediate space, especially against zone coverage
12:10
Speaker 5: for Smith and Jigbu. Where Cup figures into all of
12:13
Speaker 5: this is interesting. The timing of this trade is when
12:16
Speaker 5: Cup has two leg injuries, one of which kept him
12:19
Speaker 5: out of the game last week, and it was a
12:21
Speaker 5: reminder when he was in It was a reminder when
12:23
Speaker 5: he pulled up lame in practice on Thursday with a
12:25
Speaker 5: hamstring issue on top of his heel issue. Why the
12:28
Speaker 5: Rams gave up on him at age thirty two? Right,
12:31
Speaker 5: he wouldn't even be a Seahawk if he hadn't had
12:33
Speaker 5: three years of injuries in LA that made him give
12:35
Speaker 5: up on their ninety million dollars contract they gave him.
12:38
Speaker 5: So is this a sign that they think Cooper Cup
12:40
Speaker 5: is breaking down halfway into his first season of a
12:44
Speaker 5: three year contract.
12:46
Speaker 4: If they re signed Shaheed, that would suggest that, wouldn't
12:49
Speaker 4: it be?
12:50
Speaker 5: Because Shaheed is six years younger, well five, He just
12:53
Speaker 5: turned twenty seven, and he's infinitely faster, and he doesn't
12:57
Speaker 5: have the injuries, although he did have a knee injury,
12:58
Speaker 5: and he missed the last ten games of the Saints
13:00
Speaker 5: last season last year. The Cup situation is interesting because
13:05
Speaker 5: if he does come back healthy, and he was not
13:07
Speaker 5: practicing yesterday, they had a very light walkthrough. If he
13:11
Speaker 5: comes back, where does he fit? Is he hath number three,
13:14
Speaker 5: a former Super Bowl MVP and Offensive Player of the Year.
13:17
Speaker 5: Is he a number three behind an undrafted a guy
13:21
Speaker 5: who just three years ago is undrafted out of over
13:23
Speaker 5: division Weaver State, which is what Shaheat is. Cup has
13:28
Speaker 5: been a team first guy from the start, but I
13:31
Speaker 5: could see how he might not go for that.
13:34
Speaker 4: So there's a dynamic there that they're going to have
13:36
Speaker 4: to massage.
13:37
Speaker 5: If in fact this Shaheed is the number two receiver,
13:39
Speaker 5: He's going to be number two as long as Cup
13:41
Speaker 5: is hurt.
13:41
Speaker 2: Help. Yeah, I think that there's some concerns about Cooper Cup.
13:48
Speaker 2: And I'm somewhat influenced by my experience with the thirty
13:51
Speaker 2: third team that think Tank and a guy named Mike
13:53
Speaker 2: getting Zuan's pro scout. It's literally a sixty year scouting business.
13:57
Speaker 2: Then they've got a lot of databases to compare in
14:02
Speaker 2: an actual areial sense in and his number one advice
14:06
Speaker 2: he doesn't do blogs and website for fans. He's hired
14:10
Speaker 2: as consultants to NFL teams and has they have been
14:13
Speaker 2: for sixty years. And he said the number one mistake
14:16
Speaker 2: that teams make is high is bringing on older and
14:21
Speaker 2: previously broke down players. And so the exact guy that
14:25
Speaker 2: he would caution against was Cooper Cup Unfortunately, so I
14:29
Speaker 2: don't know how this is going to play out. Greg's
14:31
Speaker 2: exactly right in terms of the use if you if
14:34
Speaker 2: you have let's say, let's let's look for this. Let's
14:37
Speaker 2: say you have Jackson Smith and Jigba on a deep
14:41
Speaker 2: crossing route and over Some people call it an over out,
14:44
Speaker 2: so call it a race. What call it what you want.
14:46
Speaker 2: But then you've got to clear out that area with
14:49
Speaker 2: speed on a post route or perhaps a go depending
14:53
Speaker 2: on the structure and the formation and the hats and
14:56
Speaker 2: all that. But having a fast guy that makes the
15:00
Speaker 2: defense turn just a little bit faster, get out of
15:04
Speaker 2: their back pedal and say, oh crap, I got heat
15:07
Speaker 2: coming on me. When when a quarterback sees that, when
15:11
Speaker 2: he goes play action and he turns his back, you
15:14
Speaker 2: don't want to see that deep layer kind of middling
15:17
Speaker 2: in in that middle ground. You want to see that
15:20
Speaker 2: deep lay. You want to see that deep layer of
15:22
Speaker 2: the defense. They've turned their hips, they're running backwards, they're
15:26
Speaker 2: not in their back pedal anymore, and you say, okay,
15:28
Speaker 2: there's no threat of them climbing top down on my
15:32
Speaker 2: intermediate cut to Jackson Smith and Jigban and then you
15:35
Speaker 2: let it rip. Now, Sam Donald's been really good at it.
15:38
Speaker 2: The idea that he could even be better with the
15:41
Speaker 2: vertical stretch is something clear. That is one of the
15:45
Speaker 2: boxes that the Seahawks think that he's checking a.
15:48
Speaker 5: Little bit of housekeeping. Chuck Donald said yes. Said when
15:51
Speaker 5: I asked him is he going to play? Is he's
15:53
Speaker 5: spun up enough that he's going to be able to
15:54
Speaker 5: play on Sunday, he said, I sure hope so, and
15:56
Speaker 5: even laughter that took that as an absolute yes because
15:59
Speaker 5: he knows Kubiak. And also we asked him, what's he
16:02
Speaker 5: going to be in the kick game? He did more
16:04
Speaker 5: punt return earlier in his career than kickoff return, and
16:07
Speaker 5: lately he's done kickoff return for the Saints too, And
16:09
Speaker 5: he said he's going to be involved in our return game.
16:12
Speaker 4: Sha.
16:12
Speaker 5: But he also said Tory Horton is still our primary
16:15
Speaker 5: punt returner. He didn't say for now, but back yesterday
16:18
Speaker 5: at the start of practice, at very beginning, Horton and
16:20
Speaker 5: Shaheed were back returning punts too, So that's another element
16:23
Speaker 5: they're going to use him.
16:24
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's interesting that every single snap I'm
16:29
Speaker 2: going to state the obvious, but let's try and get
16:31
Speaker 2: a little bit granule on it. Every single snap she
16:34
Speaker 2: Heed takes is taking a snap from somebody? And is
16:39
Speaker 2: it taking it from Cooper Cup? Okay? The Seahawks have
16:43
Speaker 2: been high in their use of twenty one and eleven personnel,
16:46
Speaker 2: well or seeing me, twenty one and twelve personnel. Eleven personnel,
16:50
Speaker 2: which is the most common in the league. That's one
16:53
Speaker 2: wide receiver, one tight end and three wide receivers. If
16:58
Speaker 2: they do more of that now, to have three receivers
17:01
Speaker 2: on the field, be it if you if you say okay,
17:04
Speaker 2: js N obviously, and then you you say Resid Shaheed, Okay, well,
17:08
Speaker 2: who's the third guy? Is it? Is it gonna be Cup?
17:11
Speaker 2: Is it gonna be Horton? Somebody's gonna lose reps. And
17:14
Speaker 2: then if you say, if we're playing more eleven personnel,
17:16
Speaker 2: because Clint Kubiak in all of his stops has been
17:20
Speaker 2: relatively low on that. Well, then then the twelve personnel
17:23
Speaker 2: is it a J Barner gonna lose reps?
17:25
Speaker 4: No?
17:26
Speaker 2: UH, is Arroyo who you spent a lot to get,
17:29
Speaker 2: you know, you want to keep developing him, He's gonna
17:32
Speaker 2: lose reps. Robbie uts you play less twenty one personnel
17:35
Speaker 2: because you need to have three receivers on. You're that
17:38
Speaker 2: he's losing rep every single time he's on the field.
17:42
Speaker 2: Somebody just lost a rep. And how to figure out
17:45
Speaker 2: what's the what's the best uh, you know in in
17:48
Speaker 2: you know, right in the moment in that drive and
17:50
Speaker 2: then in a broad sense of of of what's our
17:53
Speaker 2: overall UH game plan for that week or or or
17:58
Speaker 2: just a general as he said, modus them OPERENDI.
18:01
Speaker 5: My sense is they're going to go less two back
18:03
Speaker 5: and they're going to go fewer times in multiple tight ends.
18:07
Speaker 5: That's that seems to be what it is so far.
18:09
Speaker 5: You don't want to get alia ed a Cooper Cup
18:11
Speaker 5: in the after eight games into a season and say, well,
18:14
Speaker 5: you're now at number three and you're going to see
18:16
Speaker 5: the field forty eight percent of the time, So we'll
18:19
Speaker 5: see how it plays out. If you could stand the
18:21
Speaker 5: Robbie uts and perhaps Arroyo would lose time because you're right,
18:25
Speaker 5: Barner is balking in catching the bolot.
18:27
Speaker 2: Right, It'll be ten personnel. Sorry, sorry, you know which
18:30
Speaker 2: is no tridea and four wide receiver. Sorry, So no worries.
18:34
Speaker 1: Greg Bell Hugh millin our twelve man round table. Obviously
18:37
Speaker 1: a lot to talk about with NFL trading deadline, and
18:39
Speaker 1: we still have to preview the Seahawks game with the Cardinals,
18:43
Speaker 1: maybe even talk a little bit about that impressive performance
18:46
Speaker 1: over the Commanders.
18:46
Speaker 2: So a lot yet to do.
18:48
Speaker 1: We'll get to it next on Sports Radio ninety three
18:50
Speaker 1: point three KJRFM. The Seahawks coming off quite an impressive
18:55
Speaker 1: victory against the Washington Commanders on Sunday, got people across
18:58
Speaker 1: the country calling them the team in the National Football
19:01
Speaker 1: League for goodness sake, And now they get ready to
19:04
Speaker 1: take on the Arizona Cardinals on Sunday. Who will be
19:07
Speaker 1: starting Jacobi Prissett and not Kyler Murray in this game?
19:12
Speaker 1: I mean, Hugh, that's not like going from stovetop stuffing
19:15
Speaker 1: to mashed potatoes. That's like going from stovetop stuffing to
19:18
Speaker 1: like gummy worms.
19:19
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a big change in terms of your
19:22
Speaker 2: preparation for that quarterback. Yeah, it really is. And I
19:27
Speaker 2: think this is an interesting matchup. I always consider are
19:31
Speaker 2: are there some clear psychological discrepancies either favorably or unfavorably
19:37
Speaker 2: going in. I think this is going to be a
19:40
Speaker 2: matchup a little bit in terms of of who can
19:44
Speaker 2: handle success and prosperity. Because while the Seahawks had their
19:49
Speaker 2: overwhelming Sunday night game and everybody's throwing flowers at them,
19:54
Speaker 2: as you point out nationally and otherwise locally, same thing
19:58
Speaker 2: with the Cardinals. They had a incredible performance on Monday Night,
20:02
Speaker 2: just dismantling the Cowboys where the Cowboys are normally at
20:06
Speaker 2: least not the defense, but Dak Prescott, you know, he
20:10
Speaker 2: he he plays like Auto Graham in that stadium, and
20:14
Speaker 2: and and and so the Cardinals went in and and
20:18
Speaker 2: and and and so now they they they're trying to
20:23
Speaker 2: battle that success and what everybody thinks of it. On
20:26
Speaker 2: top of that, the the Joe Jacoby Brissett that could
20:30
Speaker 2: really be galvanizing for them. Because it's my contention just
20:35
Speaker 2: for you know, I could write reasons why. It's just
20:38
Speaker 2: kind of more gut and observation. I think Kyler Murray
20:41
Speaker 2: is the worst leader I've ever seen at the quarterback position,
20:44
Speaker 2: and over fifty years of watching football, I think he
20:48
Speaker 2: he can't handle. Uh, he throw you know, he throws
20:52
Speaker 2: players under the bus. He threw his coach under the bus.
20:55
Speaker 2: I think his body language is among the worst I've
20:57
Speaker 2: ever the worst i've ever seen. I think there's some
21:01
Speaker 2: leadership problems. I'll tell you what. When you saw Trey McBride,
21:05
Speaker 2: the Cardinals great tight end, interviewed on Monday night after
21:10
Speaker 2: that game, and he's and they were asked, you know,
21:14
Speaker 2: Scott Van Pelt said, look, I'm not asking a load
21:16
Speaker 2: of questions, just what does Jacoby Brissette bring to you? Well,
21:21
Speaker 2: the response that Trey McBride had where he was raving
21:26
Speaker 2: about Jacoby Brissett, there's messages and he's talking about how
21:31
Speaker 2: he works and he watches tape. Well, every quarterback should
21:34
Speaker 2: work and watch tape. Well that's been an issue for
21:37
Speaker 2: Kylerie Murray. And I look, I don't come on the
21:40
Speaker 2: station and I wouldn't mention missus Millan, my wife Michelle,
21:44
Speaker 2: but maybe once a decade on this show. But she
21:47
Speaker 2: was watching that and she become quite a football mom
21:51
Speaker 2: and a football wife. She goes, Kyler Murray's done. She
21:56
Speaker 2: read right into everything Trey McBride was saying nice about
22:02
Speaker 2: Jacoby Brissett, and she saw it as that is a
22:05
Speaker 2: big time slam on Kyler Murray. I read it as well.
22:09
Speaker 2: I think that they're going to be really excited about him.
22:11
Speaker 2: Now I've chewed up my time, so I can't tell
22:14
Speaker 2: you what he offers as a quarterback unless we revert
22:18
Speaker 2: the conversation. But I think Greg, that's a big factor
22:21
Speaker 2: in this game is how excited are the Cardinals based
22:26
Speaker 2: on beating the Cowboys and now the idea that the
22:30
Speaker 2: Jacoby Brisset, who in all likelihood is more respected and
22:33
Speaker 2: probably more like That's my theory. Can't prove it, but
22:37
Speaker 2: how does that team enter into this stadium on a
22:40
Speaker 2: high and ready to play their very, very best football?
22:44
Speaker 4: Yeah? How are the Cardinals feeling about it?
22:46
Speaker 5: Having a two hundred and thirty million dollar contact through
22:48
Speaker 5: twenty twenty eight with Kyler Murray? Right, that's what they've
22:53
Speaker 5: got and there's some guarantee money they can't get out
22:55
Speaker 5: of before that but yeah, they it was telling that
23:00
Speaker 5: Jonathan Gannon came out pretty early in the week, like
23:03
Speaker 5: as soon as they touched down in Phoenix from the
23:04
Speaker 5: win in Dallas, and said Brissett's our guy this week.
23:07
Speaker 4: And then further they well, actually Murray's going to be
23:09
Speaker 4: out a few more weeks.
23:10
Speaker 5: And yeah, I'm reading the same thing from Afar that
23:14
Speaker 5: Hugh is about the Cardinals quarterback situation. Brissett has come
23:17
Speaker 5: in here before with the New England Patriots and a
23:20
Speaker 5: couple other teams that he's played for. The Colts started
23:23
Speaker 5: a Sunday night game against Seattle at Luminfield as a
23:26
Speaker 5: backup quarterback. And we have seen backup quarterbacks for Chase Daniel.
23:31
Speaker 5: You named some journeyman quarterbacks who have come into Seattle
23:34
Speaker 5: and won in the last half decade. So this, as
23:38
Speaker 5: I've said many times, to see not good enough to
23:39
Speaker 5: say this is just a walkover. I will say this
23:42
Speaker 5: letter Williams, the Marcus Lawrence Jared Reed Byron Murphy would
23:46
Speaker 5: much rather face Jacobe Brissett than Kyler Murray. De Marcus
23:50
Speaker 5: Lawrence injured his quad chasing down Kyler Murray in the
23:54
Speaker 5: desert in September and missed two games. Brissett is a
23:58
Speaker 5: pocket passer. Murray is a wildcard that runs all over
24:01
Speaker 5: the place, sometimes to the detriment of his team and
24:04
Speaker 5: lack of structure. Brissett is a structured quarterback and he
24:07
Speaker 5: will stay in the pocket, which makes him more of
24:08
Speaker 5: an upfield rush target for Lawrence and Leonard Williams and
24:13
Speaker 5: the guys up front for Seattle. I think it plays
24:15
Speaker 5: into the strength of the Seahawks that they don't have
24:18
Speaker 5: to blitz as much if Brissett as the quarterback because
24:21
Speaker 5: he's in the pocket, and Seattle's front four has proven
24:23
Speaker 5: to have so much success the first half of the
24:25
Speaker 5: season rushing just four, I think this becomes a coverage
24:28
Speaker 5: game for Seattle more than the Washington game was, when
24:31
Speaker 5: they blitzed a lot more. They were blitzing Witherspoon. They
24:35
Speaker 5: were blitzed against Washington McDonald's blitzing Witherspoon, Tylecotta at safety.
24:39
Speaker 5: They were doing nickel blitzers with even worry. It was
24:42
Speaker 5: back to what they were planning to do at the
24:44
Speaker 5: beginning of the season that they had all their guys
24:46
Speaker 5: back again. I don't think this is the same game
24:48
Speaker 5: with Brissett the quarterback. I am interested you. I would
24:51
Speaker 5: see my time to you about what you see as
24:54
Speaker 5: Brissett as a quarterback and is really is about its
24:56
Speaker 5: fourth iteration of starting against the Seahawks over his career
25:00
Speaker 5: and what you see as the threat vis a v.
25:03
Speaker 4: Kyler Murray.
25:04
Speaker 2: Well, I think that, I mean, you nailed it pretty good.
25:07
Speaker 2: I mean he's a big pocket passer, six foot four.
25:09
Speaker 2: He will stand in there. You know, he's thick, so
25:12
Speaker 2: I think he handles the rush in his face more.
25:15
Speaker 2: Now teams when they when they defend Kyler Murray, you
25:19
Speaker 2: have to be more cautious as you approach. You have to,
25:23
Speaker 2: as the Seahawks said four as one you got an
25:26
Speaker 2: almost kind of two gap in your approach. And as such,
25:30
Speaker 2: Kyler Murray was only hit twenty five times in all
25:33
Speaker 2: of his starts. Jacoby Burssett, in far less time, has
25:37
Speaker 2: been hit thirty four times. Because I think you can
25:39
Speaker 2: sell out to the quarterback if you're on the backside
25:41
Speaker 2: of him. He's a right and a quarterback. If you
25:43
Speaker 2: want to take the loop into the B gap. Kyler
25:46
Speaker 2: Murray would say if he feeled that like I felt
25:49
Speaker 2: that he would, he would escape out the left hatch
25:52
Speaker 2: and he would get twenty seven yards on you, right.
25:55
Speaker 2: But Burssett, you can momentarily say, hey, I'll be I'll
25:59
Speaker 2: be unsound, I'll spin back into the B gap because
26:02
Speaker 2: he's not as as uh as mobile now uh he
26:06
Speaker 2: You know, I watched a fair amount of tape on Brissett,
26:10
Speaker 2: just u uh watching him throw those deep in routes
26:14
Speaker 2: where he just stands in there, stands tall and and
26:17
Speaker 2: throws anticipated what he will. I don't think he goes
26:20
Speaker 2: through his progressions at at a at ann elite level
26:24
Speaker 2: the way Sam Darnold does. He's more likely to lock
26:27
Speaker 2: on his guy on his primary and then just say
26:30
Speaker 2: let me give a chance. But he's got the arm
26:31
Speaker 2: to rip it in. Now you think he's you know,
26:34
Speaker 2: he better over the middle, but actually his comparative advantage
26:37
Speaker 2: over Kyler Murray has been to the outside. He's and
26:40
Speaker 2: and throwing deep comebacks and out routes. You know he
26:44
Speaker 2: did you know the proverbial what's the test of an
26:47
Speaker 2: arm strength? You know the deep out Well, he's throwing
26:50
Speaker 2: those and Marvin Harrison seven catches ninety six yards against
26:54
Speaker 2: the Cowboys. He had his best game, So that that's
26:57
Speaker 2: another factor but but yeah, I think the the mobility piece,
27:02
Speaker 2: you know, the aspects of Murray that we all know.
27:05
Speaker 2: And then now Brissett as a big, tall, great arm,
27:09
Speaker 2: you know, you know, he spins the ball great. But
27:13
Speaker 2: I think the opportunities to put the pressure on you know,
27:16
Speaker 2: rush yards Kyler. Murray as one hundred and seventy three
27:19
Speaker 2: on his six average, Brissett just fifty one on a
27:21
Speaker 2: three point four scrambles. On starts and completed games, Murray
27:27
Speaker 2: had fifteen for one hundred and thirty yards, Brisset six
27:30
Speaker 2: for forty yards. So yeah, the mobility piece, it shows
27:33
Speaker 2: up on the stats, it shows up on the tape,
27:35
Speaker 2: and I think, seeow's got a great chance of getting
27:37
Speaker 2: after this guy. I looked at his his career. What's
27:40
Speaker 2: his career record. I mean, he's twenty and thirty six.
27:44
Speaker 2: If you're talking about we can't sit here and say
27:46
Speaker 2: that the Seahawks have been called the number one team
27:49
Speaker 2: in the NFL by some some reporters and analysts. And
27:55
Speaker 2: then now with all of this, you know, relative health,
27:58
Speaker 2: everybody feeling good, but you can't let a twenty and
28:01
Speaker 2: thirty six quarterback come in and beat you. Period. Yeah, yeah,
28:05
Speaker 2: here John will be in a contender.
28:08
Speaker 4: John Wolford, Chase Daniel.
28:11
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I know, but it's got this appeared in
28:15
Speaker 2: the drop. This has to stop right now.
28:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, here Melling, Greg Bell with us. It's our twelve
28:22
Speaker 1: man round table every Thursday. Right here on Chuck and Buck.
28:25
Speaker 1: We have one more segment. Hu's final thoughts, Greg's keys,
28:28
Speaker 1: Bucky Score. Sports Radio ninety three point three kJ RF.
28:31
Speaker 1: M All right, final segment of the twelve man round Table.
28:42
Speaker 1: You Millan, this here, Greg Bell is here, Bucky Jacobson
28:45
Speaker 1: is here as well. Bucky get us started this segment
28:48
Speaker 1: of Cardinals versus Seahawks this Sunday.
28:51
Speaker 2: What kind of game you expecting?
28:53
Speaker 3: I'm expecting another hard fought division matchup. It doesn't really
28:57
Speaker 3: matter if if one team's flying high in the other
29:00
Speaker 3: kind of figure and trying to is somewhat rudderless. I
29:03
Speaker 3: still feel like these teams play each other tough. I
29:05
Speaker 3: think I think Seattle's just too good. I think that
29:09
Speaker 3: they will find a way to win this as long
29:11
Speaker 3: as they don't shoot themselves in the foot with something
29:13
Speaker 3: stupid late. I'm going to go ahead and say I
29:16
Speaker 3: think the Seahawks win twenty three to seventeen.
29:19
Speaker 2: Twenty three seventeen. I have a feeling.
29:20
Speaker 1: Greg Bell also thinks that, well, somehow, some way against
29:24
Speaker 1: the Arizona Cardinals end up close, Greg, what do you
29:27
Speaker 1: got keys of the game? Kind of result we're going
29:29
Speaker 1: to be staring at Sunday.
29:31
Speaker 4: Actually, I don't think it's going to be close.
29:34
Speaker 5: I think that Brissett, as I mentioned, plays into the
29:38
Speaker 5: strength of the Seahawks defense this year, which is their
29:40
Speaker 5: front four pressure and allowing seven to cover. And now
29:43
Speaker 5: that Witherspoon and even Worry are both playing, Josh Jo
29:46
Speaker 5: won't play. It looks like with the concussion still, which
29:48
Speaker 5: means Greek Woland will be the third corner. But I
29:51
Speaker 5: think that they are going to be playing into the
29:52
Speaker 5: strength of the Seahawks defense. With Brissette out of the pocket,
29:56
Speaker 5: there's no running game at all for Arizona. You mentioned
29:59
Speaker 5: one hundred and seventy three yards that Kyler Murray has
30:01
Speaker 5: rushing that leads the team through nine games. They have
30:04
Speaker 5: a leading rusher of one hundred and seventy three yards.
30:06
Speaker 5: That's not even twenty yards a game. So they are
30:09
Speaker 5: not running the ball at all. I don't care what
30:11
Speaker 5: their stats say that they're twentieth in the NFL and
30:13
Speaker 5: rushing per game. They're not running the ball because the
30:16
Speaker 5: only time they did run the ball was with their
30:17
Speaker 5: starting quarterback running playground plays. That also plays into what
30:21
Speaker 5: Mike McDonald wants to do with blitzing and tricks and whatnot.
30:24
Speaker 4: I think this is a boat race.
30:26
Speaker 5: I think the same I thought the same thing for
30:28
Speaker 5: kickoff in Washington. The Seahawks are in the boat race
30:32
Speaker 5: mode of their season. That boat race mode is going
30:33
Speaker 5: to end after Sunday when they go down to Englewood
30:35
Speaker 5: next week. But I think it's going to be twenty
30:38
Speaker 5: four to six with the Cardinals not even scoring an
30:41
Speaker 5: offensive touchdown.
30:42
Speaker 2: Wow, look at that. Look at that Greg belt turn
30:44
Speaker 2: over a new leaf.
30:45
Speaker 5: I've not done that many my twenty plus years are
30:48
Speaker 5: covering this team.
30:49
Speaker 4: I rarely call the Seahawks winning boat races. But I
30:51
Speaker 4: just a team that can't run with a static quarterback
30:55
Speaker 4: is playing in the.
30:55
Speaker 2: McDonald's When you have you're usually right.
31:00
Speaker 4: I can't you acknowledge that that happened in twenty years?
31:05
Speaker 1: All right, Hugh, where do we close out this show?
31:07
Speaker 2: What area you taking us too?
31:09
Speaker 1: Well?
31:09
Speaker 2: You know, Greg just asked me we were talking during
31:13
Speaker 2: the break, and he asked me a question. He said,
31:16
Speaker 2: what impresses me most about Sam Donald? And you know,
31:20
Speaker 2: I thought, I'm always so granular down in the trees,
31:23
Speaker 2: and so that forced me to kind of take the
31:25
Speaker 2: helicopter and and you know, get up at ten twenty
31:28
Speaker 2: thousand feet to kind of look down and and my
31:30
Speaker 2: summary would be, because you're going to see a similar
31:33
Speaker 2: type of quarterback in Jacoby Brissett, bounced around, you know,
31:36
Speaker 2: similar in stature, similar in athleticisms, uh and what have you.
31:40
Speaker 2: What what distinguishes Sam Donald from Jacoby Brissett. My answer
31:45
Speaker 2: would be that the top of the pyramid, if you
31:48
Speaker 2: think of like a wooden pyramid, the top of quarterbacking,
31:51
Speaker 2: in my opinion, is you got to throw it to
31:54
Speaker 2: the right guy at the right time, accurately. And I
31:57
Speaker 2: think that Sam Donald is doing that and what's helping
32:01
Speaker 2: him because throwing with anticipation is the hardest thing to do.
32:04
Speaker 2: To see the movie before it plays, he is manipulating
32:08
Speaker 2: with his eyes. A lot of times you think he's
32:09
Speaker 2: going through his progression. He's just intensely moving defenders into
32:13
Speaker 2: windows and then smoking the ball into those windows. He's
32:16
Speaker 2: throwing it with accuracy. And then and then the final
32:19
Speaker 2: thing that I mentioned. I've only seen three quarterbacks materially
32:24
Speaker 2: change their mechanics at the professional level. Aaron Rodgers is one.
32:28
Speaker 2: He used to hold the ball up by his ear
32:30
Speaker 2: at Cali, dropped it down to a more comfortable level
32:32
Speaker 2: at the professional level. Josh Allen used to have a
32:36
Speaker 2: higher elbow and his shoulders were more cocked on a
32:39
Speaker 2: vertical angle. He wants to have his shoulders more level, play,
32:43
Speaker 2: elbow a little bit lower. He's talked about that. You
32:46
Speaker 2: can see it on the tape. And then Sara Donald
32:48
Speaker 2: would be the third. When when he was at USC,
32:51
Speaker 2: watched him a lot. I know from my eye I
32:56
Speaker 2: could not stand his release. It was like watching Jim
32:59
Speaker 2: Furix golf swing. Now, Jim Fiurick is like a top
33:03
Speaker 2: five in the history of golf winning. He's won a
33:06
Speaker 2: major in terms of earnings and what have you. So
33:08
Speaker 2: Jim Fierick could play. But raise your hand if you
33:11
Speaker 2: think Jim fierix golf swing looks looks smooth or sweet,
33:17
Speaker 2: that's the same thing Donald was at USC. For me,
33:19
Speaker 2: he brought the ball way down to his thigh path,
33:22
Speaker 2: This big, gross, loopy release. I know he does not
33:25
Speaker 2: have that. Now he has a quick release, and he
33:28
Speaker 2: has an ability you know, Bucky, as you know, pitchers
33:32
Speaker 2: want to get that right soulder as a right hander
33:34
Speaker 2: over their left foot, you know, as a quarterback, that's
33:38
Speaker 2: generally what you'd want to do if you can. He has,
33:41
Speaker 2: he Donald has. I'm just watching the end zone copy.
33:44
Speaker 2: He can stop his shoulder halfway through and kind of
33:48
Speaker 2: slingslot the rest with and flick that thing. He can
33:51
Speaker 2: generate velocity. There's an arm talent there that I think
33:55
Speaker 2: his mechanics have improved a lot. I'm seeing this arm
33:59
Speaker 2: talent that that he's using at the right time to
34:02
Speaker 2: get the ball into intermediate winnows. Now, you can't throw
34:05
Speaker 2: that way and throw fifty sixty yards, but on a
34:08
Speaker 2: little sixteen yard curl, you can snap it like that.
34:12
Speaker 2: So he has as a twenty year old draft in
34:14
Speaker 2: New York, yet he has now as a twenty eight
34:17
Speaker 2: year old, He's learned a lot about the quarterbacking position, mechanically,
34:22
Speaker 2: the processing, the use of his eyes. As I said,
34:27
Speaker 2: and so we're getting the best Sam Darnold, and I'm
34:30
Speaker 2: with Gray. He is gonna bootstop this other journeyman in
34:35
Speaker 2: Jacoby Brissette. Enough of losing it home.
34:40
Speaker 1: Awesome stuff, gentlemen, Thank you very much, We appreciate it.
34:43
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you both tomorrow. Okay, all right, there
34:47
Speaker 1: they are our QB ONEH. Mellan will be with us
34:50
Speaker 1: for x's and o's tomorrow at nine o'clock. Also our
34:53
Speaker 1: Seahawks insider Greg Bell, you can follow at the Newstribune
34:56
Speaker 1: dot com all the Seahawk coverage and of course on
34:59
Speaker 1: Twitter at g Bell Seattle. And he'll be with us
35:02
Speaker 1: tomorrow at seven five as we give you last minute
35:07
Speaker 1: analysis of Seahawks versus Cardinals. Not really last minute, but
35:11
Speaker 1: the last chance we get to talk about it tomorrow.
35:13
Speaker 4: All right.
35:14
Speaker 1: Coming up next on our radio program, it is something
35:17
Speaker 1: that people really thought they would never see come together.
35:21
Speaker 1: Two titans of trivia meeting on common ground. One a
35:26
Speaker 1: Jeopardy champion, the other a guy who actually has a
35:30
Speaker 1: trivia game named after him. It's Bucky versus Levine. Next
35:35
Speaker 1: as Beat Bucky returns to our airwaves on Sports Radio
35:38
Speaker 1: ninety three point three KJRFM