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The Power of Change (And How Coaching Creates New Possibilities) · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women job board and community.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: In this show, I'm honored to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Shy away from the real talk?
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring ted talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cozy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: This is the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries, ready to find your perfect job.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Now back to the show.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Hello, welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like A Mom podcast.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Today I am chatting with Kate Rippon, who is the Corporate Affairs Director at a company called ID Birdie.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Kate did some coaching with me last year and she has since found her new role at ID Birdie.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be talking all about how to establish or re-establish yourself at work after having children, how to build your network, your approach as a leader and leaning into your point of difference, and why that is so important for success at work.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: And also we're going to be talking all about asking for part-time work I know Kate now works part-time and how to become more more family-centered rather than child-centered, and why that makes such a difference to everybody's well-being as well.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, kate, for joining us today now I'm really excited um to chat with you.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Um, so we've got loads of things to talk about, um, I guess rewinding so because obviously we spoke a little bit about establishing, re-establishing yourself at work after having children, do you want to talk us through what it was like when you returned to work after maternity leave?
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, um.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: So I've got two, two girls they're now five and three, um, my first daughter I had six weeks before the first Covid lockdown, so my first return to work was actually during the winter lockdown in 2020.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: And I remember that actually for me it was a positive experience going back to work, but also being at home in that environment as well and feeling like it definitely was a transition and still be able to be at home.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: My husband was still working at home at the time, so, um, so in a practical sense, that actually worked pretty well it was a softer landing, I guess.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah definitely, and I remember some of my younger colleagues sort of saying, oh my, you know, we're in the lockdown again and this is nightmare.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I was like this is what it's like having a small child.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: So I don't feel like a lot's changed for me actually.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Um, which was yeah, they were yes, yeah.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: so when I went back I I went back four days a week and I was supposed to be doing shorter days, so I was supposed to finish um at five rather than six and um and I did find that actually I I couldn't stick to that in the environment where I was working.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I was working for a consultancy where time's billable and it was just.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Although I did my best to put my boundaries in place, I found that really challenging and in the end, you know, in what way was it challenging?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: the end.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: You know in what way was it challenging?
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: I think it was that I I needed to log a certain number of hours each day that could be billed to clients and to to do that, not taking consideration you finished at five um, they had, so I wasn't being paid for that final hour of the day.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I'd negotiated that effectively.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: It was a half day spread across the week that I wasn't working, on top of having Friday off, um, but I just found that the nature of the work was really fast-paced.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: It was very demanding and you're getting a lot of emails, sort of after hours.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and there was, and certainly you know, in lots of jobs, and in agency particularly, you're expected to be really responsive, um and and that I found that really hard to manage and after having conversations with my boss, um, we agreed that I would be, I would get paid for that time, but I came away from that feeling I'm not actually that comfortable, in that I I had wanted to put that arrangement in place for a reason and to have that time, so I was glad to be so you were then working till six then, really yeah, well, so well, the way it was agreed was I had to work that certain number of hours, but I could do them however I needed to do, and in practice, that that might have meant I took a much shorter lunch break or I did a bit of work in the evening after my daughter had gone to bed, um, and yeah, and, and that for me, was something that I kind of took away from that experience of I felt I had been really clear with work before I came back about my expectations and what I was looking for.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: I, my team, was very supportive and really tried to do their best to make it happen to be able to finish it.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: You know, when I wanted to um and when I needed to to get to pick up, but, um, yeah, it was a good lesson for me that actually, I just think there are certain business environments where it's very difficult to make it work and and I needed to be honest with myself about whether actually that was the right place for me now that I was a working parent, um, so it was part of the consideration that then, when I went on to have my second daughter, um, and came back to work, I, I maintained the same, uh, working pattern as I'd got, but to me I felt like I knew that once I'd had my second daughter I wanted to find a new role, um, and I spent some time settling back into work.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: But that was the point when we met last year and I sort of took that time to really think about where I wanted to go next and what the right balance was going to be for me.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: And then talk through your experience then of looking for work and then finding a part-time role.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: So when I was looking last year, it was the first time that I had looked for a part-time role and I felt really nervous about that, and I remember we had, you know, a couple of conversations about when's the right time to to talk to a potential employer or a recruiter to say that you're looking for part-time work, and I would prefer to be really transparent about it.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Um, and and I did have, um, some advice from a recruiter not you, liz, um who who told me, like you can't ask for it, you can't ask for part-time work in the kind of work that you do.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: You need to go full-time and then, once you're settled in and you've earned their trust, you can, you can ask for a flexible working agreement.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: And I just completely disagreed and I just thought, well, that's, it's just not going to work for me.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: And working agreement, and I just completely disagreed and I just thought, well, that's, it's just not going to work for me and my family, so I'm not prepared to do that.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: And and I followed your advice and I I spoke to the recruiter, which it turned out was for the job where I am now and had a couple of conversations with them felt really interested in the role.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Um, and then when it, when we sort of got to the point where we were starting to talk about okay, well, how could we make this work and what's important to you?
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: I it was almost a, by the way, I don't work Fridays, how does that suit you?
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: And it just wasn't an issue at all.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: It was just kind of sure I said and actually you know, I do some freelance work around my role.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Can I finish, you know, an hour earlier.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: So effectively I'm three and a half days a week, no problem, it just it taught me that, yeah, sometimes you just have to ask and you might be surprised yeah, yeah, and I found that, now that I've started, the experience has been very different from that that I had when I came back to work, so I was going to ask about the boundaries.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Then If you feel you've got the boundaries now, then here.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and it's clear, yeah, that this is my working pattern.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Um, people know they can contact me if there's an emergency, and you know I work in communication.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Sometimes there is something that needs to be dealt with out of hours, and that's fine, um, but yeah, it's on me to log off at the time that I'm.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: You know, my pay stops basically, um, but everyone respects that and and I think also there are some other working parents who take a similar approach, and together we sort of parent loudly, as we call it, and, um, I really like that term which I which I heard from a previous boss that just being clear about what you need, um, to make things work for your family setup is really important.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: I agree and I think it's really you know somebody.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: If I was in a workplace and younger in a workplace, it would make me, you know, feel real sense that I would.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: That would be a good long-term workplace for me if I could see that they supported working parents.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: But what does work and what does parenting you know loudly mean in practice then?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: it means that I never apologize for leaving early or, you know, stopping work at a certain time yeah, and I think certainly you know when, when I'm working in the office and I have to go to go and do pickup, um, or I'm late in because I've done drop off, I'm always really clear where I've been and that I've done that um.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: I don't try and hide it.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: I think also it's.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: I took a period of parental leave last year to help my elder daughter settle into primary school and I didn't take it as holiday.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't say I was going on holiday, I said it was parental leave to help my daughter settle in.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: And, as you say, a lot of the younger members of the team came to me and said you know they really they thought that was really interesting, they didn't know that was possible, they wanted to hear more about it.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: So I think I think it's really important to show that you everyone's trying to make things work in different ways and as a parent, you may have some other needs and you're going to need a bit more support and and it works both ways yeah, it's like everyone's welcome yes, yeah, definitely, and you know I'm really fortunate that my, you know I have.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I have child care in place at start and end of day.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, my partner, um, my husband, is.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: You know, we're a team on it as well, and that's really important too, and I think it it's it shouldn't just be on the mum's parent loudly, it's on it's on both parents to do that.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, the more we can encourage that, the better.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: You spoke about how important it is to build a network throughout your career.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: What does that look like in practice and how has your network supported you?
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: It's a really yeah, it's something I'm really passionate about, because I remember at the start of my career being told you have to go and network and you know, go to networking events and industry events, and just walking into a room and thinking, oh you know, what am I trying to get out of this and who do I go and talk to and what have I got to say about myself that's interesting for them and and just it really feeling like um, a burden, and and what I found is actually my network is is my friends and my friends that I've met at work, and I think it's really important to to be your whole self at work, um, support each other and you just never know what other people have got going on.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: And so I found that over the years my network is, you know, a lot of the people that I was originally on the grad scheme on in my very first job, and then there's a group of us who all work together at Lloyd's a certain point in time and we all go on holiday every year.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: You know, still 10 years later and I think it just it just grows and grows and everyone you know understands career challenges that you might be going through and might have someone that they could recommend that you talk to and it and it's it grows really organically, um, and I love that.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: And I also really love sharing my network with other people, um, because I think it's really important to help encourage others to, to make those connections where I might have them and it could be useful.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think it's through through working and and day-to-day just really thinking about not necessarily who can help you the most, but just who do I enjoy being with the most and where do I get energy from?
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: and and I've found that that's brought me lots of positive things do you think you can build those deep connections with more people, like working remotely where you're not in an office?
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Because to me, as I look back in my network, a lot of my network, it's like you said, old colleagues that I would have sat next to um, I think it's harder.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: I think it's harder if it's entirely remote working, and certainly I'm someone that I do love being in the office and I find that if I work at home more than like two days in a row I start going a bit mad because I need to be around people, even if it's remote.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I think it's just taking the time to ask how someone is and really listening and and just having that bit of time to check in at the start of a meeting and just talk about what might be happening outside work or and just I feel like there was a period of time during Covid when it became, you know, everyone was understandably very stressed, very frazzled, and some of that got lost in in work meetings.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: In my experience and and I think it's really important to keep that focus and and certainly in meetings with with colleagues that I'm running on the agenda, I always I always have as the first point welcome and check-in and just so that there's a bit of space for chit-chat and you know if someone needs there's a bit of space for chit chat and you know if someone needs to have a bit of event, that's great too, like, yeah, it all just helps build that connection.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: So talk us through your.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: You know your approach as a leader, then, and what you think makes a good leader.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I think it's recognising where what you have to offer and what others can offer you and how together you can build something really exciting.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: And the reason I say that is that I've had, certainly, periods in my career where I've taken on a team that has an expertise that I don't have, yeah, but, but they've become part of the area that I'm leading.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: I don't have, but they've become part of the area that I'm leading.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: And for a time, I found that really challenging because I thought, god, you know they're looking at me, thinking what does Kate know about sustainability strategy?
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Or you know reporting, or you know any of those topics?
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: But it helped me appreciate what I could offer them, which was I knew my way around that organisation and I could help them engage with stakeholders around the organization better to actually get things done and have more impact, and that they would find that more fulfilling, because I could see that had been a challenge for them previously, and and so we came to a good place that I really respected their expertise.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I wasn't trying to be an expert, although I was trying to to learn so that I could could understand more deeply the work that they were doing but, yeah, I wanted to help them grow in the way that would suit their expertise and help them thrive in that particular organisation, and so I think it's, I think it's that I think it's about also leading with with a lot of empathy.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: It's, I think it's that I think it's about also leading with with a lot of empathy, and and certainly I've had times personally where I've you know, I've put on whatever's happening at home.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: you go into work and you put a brave face on and inside you're just you're breaking um, and it taught me that you know, you just never know what someone's got going on yeah and and as a leader, it's not that you're trying to pry, but it's just to let them know that you just never know what someone's got going on, and and, as a leader, it's not that you're trying to pry, but it's just to let them know that you're there and that you create a space where you, you want to support them and they can reach out if they can.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: So I think it's.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I think it's about kind of yeah, bringing a feeling that there's a human being leading the team, rather than a sort of command and control or or someone who's just implementing what they're being told from above that's interesting, because sometimes there's a couple of points that I just thought I'd unpack, but doing the final one, implementing what you've been told from up above.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Sometimes there is an unpopular policy that may have been decided from further up the chain.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: I'm just thinking in certain organizations they've, you know, been ordered to go about five days a week, for example, and yeah, there'll have been middle managers communicating that message that won't have necessarily agreed with that message.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: It impacts them as well as more junior staff.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: How do you communicate something effectively that you don't agree with?
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: You're right, it's really hard, it's really hard and I think, personally, if I don't agree with it and I feel like I have a good reason not to agree with it I would see it as my role as a leader to to do what I could to challenge that decision, so to raise those concerns about the decision itself.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: But you're right, ultimately there comes a point where a decision may have been made and that's it, and so I think it's about doing it in a way that feels good for you actually to be honest and to position it with a team and say, look, we're all in this together.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I appreciate this is really difficult, it's difficult for all of us at every level, but let's talk about how we can try to make it work, and so I think it's showing that you're in the same boat as them, and I mean one bit of feedback that I have had that I was quite proud of last year when I was looking for roles, was I got turned down from two roles, um, and the feedback was that, um, sometimes we just have to do as we're told and we just sort of get the sense that you, you really like to think for yourself and sometimes we just have to go with what decisions been made.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: And I did.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: It made me laugh and I was quite proud of it, yeah.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: I'd have been proud of that one.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it made me think, actually, then that's probably not the organization for me no, they're robots yeah, yeah, so, um, so I think I think that's it.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I think it's kind of where you can actually make things better and make things operate better, before you then have to communicate a really difficult message.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: That's the best you can do.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Going back to the first point you talked about, about being a leader.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I'm reading a book at the moment.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: It's all about you know.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: It's a lot about how to identify your unique ability, how have you identified your unique ability, and how do you then identify it within your team?
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: and how do you then identify it within your team?
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Um, I I identified it, I guess, by by asking people, and I um had some coaching about five, six years ago and spent a bit of time going out to people who's who I really trusted and really valued and asked them kind of, what do they see as my strengths and what do I bring?
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: And, and the results were really surprising and a big thing that came through was that I'm really calm and that people, people feel that about me and actually in in the work that I do in comms, that's that's a strength, um, so so I think it's it's kind of getting to understand yourself, um, and that can be from other people's perspective and they might appreciate things in you that you don't.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: You don't necessarily see for yourself that much um and so.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: So actually, also, I think it's quite helpful as a leader to say that to your team and to say you, you know, what do you think of as your own strengths?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: And here's what I've heard about me what do you, what have you heard about yourselves?
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: And I think, just encouraging that openness and showing a bit of vulnerability that you're you also want to hear about.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: What are the things that you're not as good at, and how can everyone help you develop, and and vice versa.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: So I think it's showing that you're willing to have an honest conversation about how you can improve and that you're open to feedback and asking your team for their feedback on you and, um, that can be quite tough, but that's good and that's how we learn.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think being open that it's, it's the kind of culture where that's encouraged is really important.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Obviously in comms.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming that your industry is being impacted by AI.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Talk us through how you know your job, your department and the wider industry is being impacted by AI and what you predict for the future.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean hugely so, and I mean I was just reading in the paper this week that you know some new stats have come out about the proportion of entry level jobs in the market and how that's changing because of AI.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Already I mean in comms it affects everything, so everything from creative ideas for campaigns or Are you using AI?
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: yes, yeah, um.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: So particularly in consultancy, which tends, I've found, tend to be a bit more advanced in in picking it up at the moment.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: So I was working within a WPP agency which had invested a lot in AI, so there were tools already available to develop creative ideas, whether that was was design or, you know, or verbally developing a narrative for company.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: It was also very much around just being able to to understand a huge amount of information in basically no time at all, and when I started my career, I would literally have to monitor the paper, read the paper, highlight it with a pen, cut it out and then it would get photocopied AI.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Now, you know that just doesn't happen and that kind of work just doesn't really exist.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: In the same way, there are tools that I use at the moment where I can put into the tool what is if the audience profile is this.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: So, for example, someone aged 35 to 44 in Denmark who walks through a park on their way to work because that's relevant for the, the company that I work in, um, and they can, the tool can come back and tell me what they're likely to think on a particular topic.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's extraordinary it's more than just chatting beauty, then oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely, um and and I think it's you know, it's really interesting because I've got friends who are working in AI law and data privacy around AI and just how that has to keep up or try to keep up with how it's already being used.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Because it must be moving faster than they can.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Think of policies.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Think of policies.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, massively so, and certainly people embracing AI, which is great, but not necessarily being fully aware of the information that they're sharing.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Where does that then go?
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: How is that then going to be used?
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: So I think there's definitely that whole area to really think about pretty quickly.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: I know, obviously, a lot of in my industry, a lot of in-house teams are already using AI, but I'd say it's something that I've seen embraced more agency side at this stage and advising clients how to use it, rather than companies necessarily doing it themselves, although even now, the company where I work is starting to use it for doing a first draft of a press release, for example, and then having a member of the team to actually go through it and and redraft it, but just as an initial starter, ai is incredibly useful for a lot of the kind of tasks in comms that would be done at entry level so you can see why those jobs are reducing the entry level jobs
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, and I think are going to change massively.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's always, I think, in communications there's always going to be a need for human relationships and thinking about getting to know journalists in person and understanding what a specific real human journalist might be interested in who writes on a certain topic.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: So I think we'll see you know, at the moment is is where it's at and that's all everyone's talking about.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: I think there'll be clearly a period where there's not a backlash.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: You know we're not going to lose ai now, but I think there'll be a recognition that there are some really significant areas we've all got to think about pretty quickly, um and and sort of swing back to the value of.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I guess we haven't seen those big ai lawsuits.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Yet you know those lawyers.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they might have happened, but they've been reported, you know.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: So people maybe aren't quite aware of those implications yet yes, definitely, but I think I think the implication of you know, putting information into chat, chat, gpt or whicheverT or whichever tool, and that then being used to inform the model and you know that could potentially come back or appear somewhere different.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: You know it's pretty fraught when you think about the possibilities, but I mean it is hugely exciting.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: It also means you know in a very practical way where, for example, we used to think about the words that we use on websites from a search engine point of view, so that it would get picked up on google.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's still important, but it's it's the ai bots that need to pick up the site now.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: So, actually, what do they respond to?
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: and and so, yeah, we're seeing some very practical changes in how we work actually I actually follow somebody called neil patel and I'm on his email list and he sent an email, I think it was.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: It was definitely this week, it was yesterday or the day before, and it was all about how much website traffic has dropped, because obviously now, when you type something into google, yeah half.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: The first page is just basically an ai generated answer, so you no longer have to click on a website absolutely yeah what you want, the information that you need yeah, and I mean the, I think the thought that in you know, 10 years time will be explaining the concept of a website or google to to kids, because it just won't exist in the same way necessarily.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, you're right, it's changing so quickly so quickly.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I know, because that's probably been in the past year, that there those yeah the way that search result has been displayed, if not past six months.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and it's only going to grow.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah, the genie's out the bottle absolutely so.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Before we wrap up, you said something really um, pertinent before we started, hitting record about how all your decisions that you've made have been quite family-centered, you know with your partner rather than parent-centered about the type of parent again parents you want to be.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Talk us through what that means in practice yeah, I think it was that when we had our first, our first daughter, we we've had a conversation and made an active decision that we wanted to be family-centered rather than child-centered.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: And it was a bit of a reaction to seeing quite a few friends and family members just running themselves ragged um to clubs and classes and filling the weekends with activities, basically all for their kids, and we just felt that, you know, the reality is that we've both got pretty demanding jobs and that's, it's going to stay that way and we're happy with that.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: But we now have this human being and you know, we want to make sure that we've got great time together.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, we decided to be family centred, great time together.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, we decided to be family-centered.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: So for us that means there will be times when the girls can't do something that they might necessarily want to do, or or we don't offer it to them as an option, because actually it's better that together we have some family time.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: That means that me and my husband can decompress at the weekend.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: We're not ferrying kids around here, there and everywhere.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, we've, we've each got time to do some exercise because that's important to us.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Um, and, yeah, so far touch wood that's that's working well.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, it changes with with different kinds of pressure coming from the girls, you know, as they get older.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Certainly our five-year-old is now sort of saying can I do this, can I do that?
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: But but yeah, as a principle that we're, we want to be family centered rather than just focused on as long as it works for the kids, it, it works for everyone.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's the case, and I've certainly found that as a mum, and it's true, true, of dads too, of course.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: But everyone needs you to be okay because you're the one that's keeping this show on the road, and so you've got to keep finding those ways to keep that space for you and make sure it's working for you as well as everybody else absolutely.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I know what you mean, because I think that I remember my daughters.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: They were asking to do something like right here's the timetable is because our school is good.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: It has lots of things on after school yeah, if you want to do something, you can pick any of this stuff that's happening after school, at school.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: I think it's just that additional ferrying around that just adds even more pressure.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to often pressured parents.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and I think with us, the reality of my job and my husband's job is that we don't have regular days in the office, we don't have kind of regular meetings at a certain time where we have to be.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: You know, we know we have to be there at a certain time.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: It's just it changes week to week and that juggle can be really hard.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: So just having time to switch off from that and not have every minute of your day accounted for at the weekend is just such a joy.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Um, and then you can just see how everyone feels and what you fancy doing, and that's that's great, and I feel, particularly when the kids are so small, it's nice not to have the ties yes, yeah, definitely, um, and I think also it's it's worked for us because we don't have family around living nearby who can help out.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: So it's on us to make it work and in a way, that's quite freeing because we can make decisions about childcare and you know, I've got friends whose families are quite heavily involved and that's not always easy either.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think kind of just having a bit of a principle that we're family-centered and this is what it means for us, just helps us manage things that might move in and out thank you so much, kate.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: It's been a really really nice chatting to you.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: If somebody wants to connect with you on linkedin, are we okay, of course, to put your um, your linkedin handle there?
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Um, but I really do appreciate you coming on.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I think we okay, of course, to put your um, your LinkedIn handle there, um, but I really do appreciate you coming on.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I think we've had such an interesting discussion, so thank you so much for your time thank you so much, liz, great to talk to you thank you for listening to another episode of the work.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: It like a mum podcast.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: If If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.