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Free PMS for Airbnb Hosts | Game Changer? · Host Planet: Airbnb, Holiday Let, and Vacation Rental Insights

0:00
I think the recurring subscription for all property
0:02
managed software on a pair property basis should die over a
0:07
relatively fast time frame. And that means every property
0:10
managed software has the opportunity now to pivot towards
0:13
what is the best way to be generating revenue for their
0:16
host, for their property manager.
0:18
That was Pierre Camille Hamana from Hospitable, and in this
0:22
episode we're going to break that down because Hospitable has
0:25
just made a huge move launching a free property management
0:29
system for sure short term rental hosts.
0:31
So the big question is this, the moment the STR Tech pricing
0:35
model gets disrupted, Let's get straight into it.
0:44
Pierre Camille, thank you for joining us on the House Planet
0:47
podcast. Let's start here.
0:48
Hospitable is disrupting the industry.
0:52
You've announced a free version of your PMS. What's the thinking
0:56
behind that decision? And what does the free tier
1:00
actually include? Hey, James, thank you so much
1:03
for having me. I actually don't like the word
1:05
free to characterize this new plan.
1:07
I actually believe it's less than free.
1:09
The objective is not just to have a real property management
1:12
software with real challenge management integrations with
1:16
real messaging automation, with a real operation product with
1:20
real metrics, etcetera. It's actually to align the
1:23
incentives. Everybody is saying in the
1:25
industry that your property Madeline Software should give
1:28
you, should generate more revenue for you.
1:31
So we're taking it at their word.
1:34
We actually will align the incentives so that as you
1:36
generate revenue, we will generate some revenue as well
1:39
for the business. So that makes that offering
1:42
sustainable, even profitable for a business like hospitable.
1:45
But yeah, this is basically a a gap in the market that exists.
1:49
The problem, James, is that the PMS category is a bit, I want to
1:54
say lack lacking in terms of penetration in the industry.
1:58
Only 35% of listings, for example, in the US are software
2:04
connected. And that has profound
2:06
implication on how the industry is working.
2:08
For example, the relationship between hosts and booking
2:12
platforms. Because software connected hosts
2:14
have access to more booking platforms and therefore there is
2:18
more attention to support to the competitiveness between the
2:21
different platforms to the rate, the fees, to the exposure that
2:26
they're going to use for the kind of advertiser and my
2:29
listing Zone. And so as long as the software
2:32
connected hosts are less than 51%, the booking platform can
2:36
continue to follow a game that is fundamentally on having an
2:40
exclusive supply that's not going to be listing on other
2:42
booking platforms and not actually on rebalancing the
2:47
power with hosts themselves. So that's really is a long term
2:50
view. We want to have more hosts
2:52
connected to software so that we can rebalance around booking
2:55
platforms in favour of hosts themselves.
2:58
And the way we get there is basically with indeed a less
3:01
than three new plant, which is for real property minimum
3:05
software with top grades across booking platforms that basically
3:11
pays you. That's not just we don't want to
3:14
charge your credit card, but we actually will pay you as you
3:17
grow your business. Give me the elevator pitch, then
3:20
imagine I'm a host out there. I've been going a few years.
3:24
I've always resisted signing up with APMS. Why should I sign up
3:29
with you guys? So.
3:32
Hopefully that's not just about the cost.
3:35
The the idea is that you can have a greater breadth of of
3:40
messaging automation than you would have normally on your own
3:43
booking platform. Such As for example, you have a
3:45
guest portal that allows you to market your early check in late
3:49
check out hours. You can also sell trip insurance
3:52
directly to your guest and receive a part of the revenue
3:55
that generated. In this way, you can have more
3:58
ownership directly with your guest so that whenever they're
4:02
taking the next reservation with you, they're going to be booking
4:04
on the direct platform. You can start being captive with
4:09
one leading platform and start distributing your property on
4:13
another one. It doesn't have to be
4:14
complicated. When you have a property
4:16
management software, you can just publish your listing on
4:20
that next channel. That can be Airbnb, Verbo
4:23
booking, Google Vacation Rentals as well for for example, all of
4:26
that from a real property management software that is
4:30
preferred plus preferred owner on Airbnb, preferred plus on
4:35
Airbnb and Premier plus on booking on booking.com.
4:38
So all of those are basically the top grade property
4:42
management software integration that you can you can have.
4:45
Quick Pause This series is powered by House Fully if you
4:48
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5:02
Host Planet listeners benefit from 2 special offers, $500 off
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digital guidebooks for life. There's also a link in the show
5:12
notes to book a demo with Frank Bosey, who's a big friend of our
5:16
show. All right, back to it.
5:18
So Hospitable is now offering the the free PMSI know you don't
5:22
like that term, but we'll, we'll go with it to keep it simple.
5:26
Does that mean the traditional pricing model for STR software
5:30
is a bit broken do you think? I think it's not just limited to
5:34
short term rental software. I think it's really the case for
5:37
all software companies right now.
5:39
The world, the world that was all the rage a few weeks ago was
5:43
SAS, SAS Apocalypse, I think. So all the the software as a
5:47
service business model that basically get disrupted because
5:50
you can have vibe code a new product that's really going to
5:54
be catered to your needs. The short amount of software is
5:57
a bit like like, again, lagging behind from this trend, simply
6:01
because the core of the of the Java property management
6:04
software is those integrations with the booking platform
6:07
themselves that are not open, that are closed, that are
6:10
extremely expensive to be building and maintaining.
6:13
To be frank, on both sides on the booking platforms just as
6:15
much as they are on the property management software side.
6:19
But the the reality is that there's the the the consumer and
6:22
the customers are changing in their approach to all they do
6:25
software because those alternatives are going to be
6:27
exploding and, and, and in in the industry.
6:30
So you could have, we already have probably too many property
6:34
manual software, like hundreds. You could have you.
6:38
I don't think you're going to have a greater number, to be
6:40
clear, because this is controlled at this point by the
6:43
booking platform themselves. But if you basically have
6:47
multiple software that have more categories that exist, though,
6:50
you have an expectation that this would be changing as well
6:53
for property management software.
6:54
So yes, the software industry at large needs to reinvent itself
6:59
on delivering value to its customers.
7:01
That nod can no longer be a based on pricing per seats or
7:06
pricing per properties. It needs to be tied to outcomes.
7:10
So if I generate $1000 of extra revenue for you, I think there
7:14
is a greater business case to capture a little bit of that
7:17
revenue rather than basically charging you a flat fee no
7:20
matter what extra value I've delivered.
7:23
And so that's is something that resonates really well with
7:26
operators because this is software as this kind of fixed
7:29
cost that can hit their margin no matter whether that's going
7:33
to be a peak seasonality or not. And that's creates problem, you
7:37
know, you forecast your financials considering this can
7:40
be a very meaningful expanse for some other alternatives.
7:43
So this is, this is basically the way we want to align the
7:46
industry on is that the the the recurring subscription model,
7:51
there is room for it, but it probably should not be the
7:54
primary way that we want to have a greater market share over over
7:59
the industry. I don't mean for hospitable
8:01
specifically, but really for the industry to be able to convert
8:05
existing hosts that I've been using Airbnb or other booking
8:08
channels for years, but I've never connected to software
8:11
because of the operation of cost of complexity, the
8:14
implementation, the boarding, all of those are solved
8:17
problems. Now that you can actually go on
8:20
hospitable, you don't have to go through to a sales call, you
8:23
don't have to go to an onboarding.
8:24
We can offer you that if you want to, but that's not a
8:27
requirement. And you can use a property
8:29
manual software within 10 minutes without having to, to
8:34
basically go through more humans and more loops to to to set up
8:37
your account. So I think that that's how the
8:39
industry needs to need to change all together, yes.
8:42
Why do this now, and why haven't your major competitors got there
8:50
first? So why now is a very good
8:52
question. I got to be clear, this is not
8:55
responding to any particular event.
8:57
If anything, the first time that I heard that hospitable should
9:00
be free was about six years ago from a startup coach.
9:05
That tells me if you want to have any kind of of, of scale,
9:08
you're going to need to, to do it to, to go to go on a, on a
9:12
free path, which are like, wow, I, I barely make money now.
9:17
Thank you so very much for that useless advice that I'm
9:19
absolutely not going to be following.
9:21
But there is still something on the back of my mind like if you
9:24
it, because the premise is still right.
9:26
Basically, if you want to achieve scale, you're going to
9:29
have to completely change the go to market.
9:31
And that's the other part is why not?
9:33
Why not? Well, every, everybody's
9:36
following exactly the same go to market plan.
9:38
And I cannot say that it's been particularly successful over the
9:41
past decade for CRMS. Customer relationship management software
9:45
have 80% penetration. HR system have 80% penetration.
9:49
Accounting software or sophisticated, more
9:51
sophisticated ER PS have also 80% penetration.
9:54
It's not about the complexity, it's not about the depth of the
9:57
product. When you're dealing with an HR
9:59
system, you're not dealing with an easy product.
10:01
So property management software is just this odd thing where
10:04
there's not been a wide adoption for a very high value software
10:08
that can actually help you unlock more revenue.
10:10
So the go to market clearly for the past 15 years has not been
10:15
working really well in favour of those.
10:17
Now you were saying why now and why have competitors not done
10:23
that themselves? Well, you could imagine that
10:27
even for a company at hospitable saying you know what, we're
10:30
going to have this essentials plan.
10:33
It's not an easy conversation for any kind of founder and CEO
10:35
because it's forces change and forces to reinvent itself, to
10:39
reinvent ourselves. That was CE OS are for.
10:42
That's what founders are for. That's that's the only thing I'm
10:44
probably good at at this point. When you're dealing with other
10:47
alternatives, First of all, they're they have all been
10:51
acquired by private equity companies, which means the the
10:55
board is really the one running the companies.
10:58
There is a very different rationale.
11:00
It's no longer about the entrepreneurial projects.
11:03
It's there is a lot that goes into into defensive mode.
11:06
Those are very good businesses that are growing really well,
11:09
just like hospitable, but there is no particular impetus for
11:14
innovation and change. So that's why they've been, I
11:17
believe recently, more recently like laggards on for example,
11:21
rolling out more AI features that they are now pushing in a
11:25
like a last limit. But it's it's 2026 like inbox AI
11:29
is over. There is this is this is
11:32
basically something that you can do on clock card and your own
11:35
and your own API integration with your property management
11:37
software. To facilitate that, we also
11:39
release an MCP last week because we realized this is basically
11:43
the way to go and all users are going to be interacting with
11:46
that data probably in the in the next decade.
11:49
So let's get the the first one into doing that.
11:52
I think the, the change that is required to reinvent itself the,
11:55
the, the authority that you need to have is something that our
11:59
our competitors probably do not have today, simply because
12:03
that's not the particular strategic plan for the next two
12:06
to three years. It's not about winning the
12:09
market, it's about defending, defending their own market share
12:13
and not following the most a more aggressive path that which
12:16
may may result in net good for for us themselves.
12:20
You, you hit on a really interesting point there about
12:23
the way that property management software is marketed to hosts
12:28
like that connection between the companies and the people
12:31
actually running the properties and doing the work.
12:33
One thing I noticed when I entered the industry, excuse me,
12:38
was that it felt like all the tech companies, all the PMSS,
12:41
they're all going after the enterprise level property
12:43
managers who've got 50 + 100 plus thousands of properties.
12:47
But the vast majority of the industry, 80, probably 85%, is
12:50
people with one or two properties and they're being
12:52
completely ignored. Is this why we've got to this
12:56
situation now where there's been a bit of a switch?
12:59
It seems like PMSS are going after every host really.
13:03
A lot of them now have coming up with products where it's for
13:05
people with one or two properties or a small number of
13:07
properties. Do you think there's there's a
13:09
bit of a mindset shift here for the people building this app?
13:13
So I, I would not be able to tell about what my competitors
13:17
or alternative products are thinking.
13:19
What I see is that there is a continuously greater appeal
13:23
towards enterprise customers and basically accumulating this kind
13:27
of of deck of logos on, on the websites and that, that's a very
13:33
rational move. I mean, I, I absolutely do not
13:35
criticize that. We obviously want to go after
13:37
the segmenters ourselves. That is basically to serve the
13:40
leading companies in the, in the market.
13:44
It is those are very competitive deals.
13:46
There is 0 loyalty between property managed software.
13:50
So you could have a customer with a case study with one
13:53
property managed software and then two years later or less so
13:56
maybe even they're actually going to be switching to another
13:58
property managed software. And you know that because they
14:00
published another case study. So that's just, that's just a
14:02
bit weird. You know, in terms of vibes,
14:04
there is a reality of it. What we see with our our top
14:08
customers with hundreds of properties is that they are
14:11
likely on their 4th property management software.
14:15
So there is a lot of users that currently feel stuck for fear of
14:19
change. And the change management is
14:21
really a big problem in this industry as well, especially on
14:24
the the 30 plus property management companies.
14:28
But those that do do it very often, they they often do it
14:33
every year to basically have competitive deals and they
14:36
realize something that others probably have not, which is that
14:40
we are all integrated on the same set of APIs.
14:44
There is a very little differentiability
14:47
differentiation between PMS one and PMS 55 because we're all
14:52
integrated on the same ones. There.
14:54
There are some that are taking a bit more of an entrepreneurial
14:57
approach, a different journey to provide very more differentiated
15:01
services, but it's almost like the exception drowning in a sea
15:07
of absolute common software. So that, that that's the first
15:12
realization. So if you basically are all
15:13
integrated on the same, what matters is basically the quality
15:16
of the engineering, the culture of the company.
15:19
Pretty much everybody is struggling with all the other
15:20
parts anyway. So then it, it becomes, it comes
15:24
down to pricing. And I was working with a, a
15:27
salesperson with an alternative product a few a few days ago
15:30
telling me exactly just that is basically you, you can win a
15:33
deal with pricing. Actually the larger the number
15:35
of properties, the, the, the, the less you need to talk about
15:40
because it's really is all resulting to pricing.
15:43
So when you have everybody that's switching all the time
15:45
and only pricing is really the differentiating factor.
15:49
Well, there is no growth in the industry.
15:53
So I'm not sure I can talk to basically like incumbent
15:58
software companies that are looking into the the rest of the
16:02
industry. I think there are still severe
16:04
restrictions. I think I see the opposite from
16:06
frankly from my from my own, from my own field of view.
16:09
But you're right is that 85% of the market are owned that have
16:12
less than 7 properties. And that's not necessarily a
16:14
size where you manage other people's property at this point
16:17
that may be very well you own and you're very successful real
16:20
estate investors. So they don't want the bells and
16:23
whistles from owner statements and accounting software, maybe
16:26
some needs absolutely that's great and hospitable can support
16:29
them with that. But there, there is a there is a
16:32
need for a software that talks to them about their problem.
16:35
And it's not always about for example, owner, owner
16:38
communication. There are plans for that.
16:40
But this is basically a bit of a bit of a different product to to
16:44
be at. And that's where we believe that
16:46
there is really for the industry the largest bucket of growth
16:51
that that remains. And that has great implications
16:54
for every host in the industry. I don't want to sound like too
16:58
carnivore when I'm when I'm talking like this, but I think
17:01
ultimately the more the more hosts are software connected,
17:04
that means the the professionalization expectations
17:07
are rising up. The quality is raising, the
17:10
quality is being raised and the potential for distribution to
17:13
multiple platform is is happening and you increase the
17:16
competitiveness between booking platforms.
17:19
You will never have competitiveness between booking
17:21
platforms and attention to host if you do not have a way for
17:28
every booking platform to be making their case and win based
17:32
on their own performance. So I think that's that's what
17:35
makes it interesting frankly for us.
17:38
I mean, Hospitable works with thousands of hosts around the
17:41
world. What are the most common
17:45
operational mistakes that you still see hosts making when
17:49
they're managing short term rentals?
17:51
So, yeah, I, I think they're there.
17:52
So we're working with 20,000 customers as of today, a little
17:56
bit more so all over the world ended with an essential party
18:00
in, in North America on the, on the operational mistakes.
18:05
I, I think you know what I've learned to not to, to stop
18:09
judging because everyone has actually a very different style
18:14
of all they want to be operating.
18:17
And if that works for you, that's, that's great.
18:20
What I find has been a bit of the, the bane over of the
18:23
existence in the, in the, in the software companies is that some,
18:26
many of them have been created over by property management
18:30
companies themselves that have been successful, have been
18:32
running their a bit of a software arm.
18:35
And then later I've tried to to sell that to other property
18:39
management companies in a way that was opinionated also to
18:42
their operating model. So that's basically is a thing
18:47
that we're, we're having really in our product ourselves,
18:51
basically removing the opinions and having multiple paths to be
18:54
successful rather than dictating you or you should be running
18:57
your business because as long as you take all the accountability
19:01
for it, we should help you facilitate and automate your,
19:04
your different work flows. I, I can tell you for example,
19:07
on established automation there, there is a middle, we obviously
19:13
have been known industry for leading the way in the, on the
19:17
path of messaging automation. You know, universe and time when
19:21
booking platforms didn't have their messaging automation
19:23
product. The, I think there are some that
19:27
want to automate the, the, the, the, the minimum what really is
19:31
is compelling and the others that want to automate everything
19:35
without having the human touch. And I think there there needs to
19:38
be a balance. My own story as a host was that
19:40
I wanted to be automating the boring.
19:43
The the thing where I would be very challenged to find any kind
19:46
of extra value like if this, if this check in message is a five
19:49
star check in message, how can I make it a six star check in
19:51
message? How can I make it a seven star?
19:53
There is a point where it gets really difficult, but that I was
19:57
I was automating this part so I could so so so that I could
20:03
basically be present with my guests during, for example, a
20:07
beer testing experience where that I had as a living O.
20:10
So I wanted to be more present and to facilitate that I needed
20:14
the messaging automation to basically take over so I would
20:17
not be interrupted and I would be sending the booking for
20:19
permission and offering a really great booking experience.
20:23
Brigade first. Curt first contact.
20:25
So that, that, that really is, is one of those things there.
20:30
Yeah, there, there are probably a lot I would like to talk
20:32
about, but I think, I think I would rather keep it open and
20:36
not particularly judgmental on on host.
20:39
Let's let's flip it then. What do the most successful
20:43
hosts and property managers generally do differently from
20:47
everyone else? They know that special sauce and
20:50
they know what is it that they are unique in offering.
20:53
So basically same on my on my own, on my own story.
20:57
Yeah, that beer testing experience in Brussels, that's
21:00
something that's pretty, that's pretty unique.
21:01
So I'm going to try and push my advantage using that.
21:05
I think for for for many hosts and property managers, that is
21:08
really about that. I was talking with the host and
21:11
that was next to a very, a very famous hospital like the we had
21:15
the Mayo Clinic and basically offering literally like rentals
21:19
for families that were going that were probably having their
21:23
their kids, their children to be hospitalized in that, in that in
21:26
that hospital. That is a very different type of
21:29
hosting that you do. And so you really are involved a
21:34
bit emotionally in the story that that are occurring and you
21:36
want to be offering like all the, all the, the, the, the
21:40
package that basically comes with hosting those specific type
21:44
of guests and offering them a very humane experience.
21:47
She was using, she is using hospitable and you know, having
21:50
some, some check in messaging automation, but there is really
21:53
like an obligation to care beyond just that automation.
21:59
So I think in in general, that's really what is your specific
22:03
unique value, the bet you're willing to take on yourself, on
22:05
your business, on your short term mental operation and kind
22:08
of double down, double down on that to a point that is
22:11
obsessive. I think it's not about just
22:15
passing the bar. It's really about getting five
22:17
stars, 6 stars, 7 stars and or, or far along or more or much
22:21
many more. You can you can add to the to to
22:24
the experience that you're offering.
22:26
Definitely a knowing your nation and doubling down.
22:29
What's one thing hosts believe about the short term rental
22:34
industry that might be completely wrong?
22:36
I, I think I want to answer that it's all about the OTA, all
22:40
about the that is all about the booking platform.
22:43
I think that and there is, there is a lot of change going on
22:48
behind the scenes. There is a tidal wave that's
22:51
happening around AI where booking platforms are, I think
22:55
rightly concerned to a fair amount of being disinterminated
23:00
like in the in the in 2027, when a guest is booking a trip, will
23:05
they go to airbnb.com or to charge gpt.com or to cloud dot
23:09
AI and who is going to be taking care of the discovery of the
23:15
listing that's the most appropriate with your with your
23:19
needs. And they obviously those booking
23:22
platform have been investing billions into obviously becoming
23:28
very famous brands worldwide. And I won't say 10s of billions
23:32
into the best discovery algorithms for their, for their
23:37
platform. So there is a gigantic
23:40
opportunity for booking platform for for direct bookings to, to
23:46
basically come into play because if everyone is sharing the same
23:50
supply, you go for the agents, the AI agents, AI assistant have
23:56
should have a chance of booking direct because it should be the
23:58
place that is, that is, that is cheaper and where you have a
24:02
direct connection with the host. And you can yeah, you, you can,
24:07
you can have a better experience overall.
24:09
So I think we're this is probably I, I don't want to to
24:13
sign like an Oracle, but I there is a chance that 20262027 might
24:19
be the last years where there is the the booking platform.
24:22
I'm taking such a predominant room in the in the in the
24:28
industry. You can also turn it upside down
24:31
to be fine. I'm honest as well.
24:33
Is that yeah, sure. But that's also the case for if
24:36
you have an established direct booking site that maybe your
24:38
traffic is getting lower because your guest that would have
24:41
searched you on the search engine on Google would instead
24:44
type on ChatGPT. And that's might not be the best
24:48
platform for to, to be finding out your website.
24:52
So we're, we're also are thinking about that secondary
24:55
problem, which is very important obviously for the industry to to
24:59
basically find a way to to work that out and work directly with
25:03
AI companies to help with the discoverability of direct
25:06
supply. I mean, with the LLMS like
25:09
ChatGPT, Gemini, of course, various others, generally
25:15
they're recommending on trust and you've got to have a big
25:18
footprint. So my thinking there, as you
25:19
were talking about the direct booking websites is they're
25:22
probably not going to have anywhere near the online
25:25
footprint that Airbnb and booking.com have.
25:27
And to add on to that, we're probably going to get to a stage
25:31
where you can start advertising with ChatGPT as well.
25:33
And nobody, no direct booking site is going to be able to
25:36
compete with airbnbandbooking.com if you can
25:39
advertise on these models. So how might that switch the
25:42
goal posts? Yeah, the the difference is
25:46
basically like the the discoverability of the supply.
25:49
So you can the the the play in any case that's been going on on
25:52
direct bookings for a long time has been you can discover on the
25:56
booking platform, you search a listing title and then you find
25:59
on construction engine for the direct booking website.
26:02
I think over time the, the the air agents will basically
26:06
incorporate that as part of the default work for like if I'm
26:09
setting, if I'm set on this particular part, what what
26:13
exactly can I go? And I can, I can appreciate that
26:15
there is also plenty of counter arguments.
26:17
It's not, it's not necessarily the case has not been made yet.
26:21
Like it's still very much in flux and in motion.
26:23
And what I would like is basically a future where that
26:25
might happen more often than not rather than having the existing
26:30
booking OTAs that are just basically a competitive on the
26:34
same supply without having an any edge over on the guest.
26:39
If you want to learn more about what's actually working in this
26:42
industry right now, whether it's tech, revenue management, guest
26:45
experience, upselling or AI, the House Planet Roadshow is coming
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to Auk City near you. Tickets are just £40 each and
26:53
available now from our websites and they scan the QR code on
26:56
screen if you're watching on YouTube or hit the link in the
26:59
show notes to find out more. How do you see AI changing
27:04
things for property managers in the near term?
27:06
I mean, we're already seeing it, you know, guest communication
27:09
and in various property management softwares.
27:11
And it seems like there's a new AI powered tool that's coming
27:14
out in this industry every single day.
27:17
How is it going to affect things for your average host and
27:20
property manager? And then how is AI going to
27:23
affect the industry generally over the next year or so?
27:27
Yeah. So we've been talking about that
27:29
in particular. So I think there's really a big
27:31
angle on the, the platform disintermediation and what's
27:35
going to be the room for, for direct bookings later.
27:38
And that, that for me is really a lot of conversation with
27:42
booking platforms that we're having are really focused around
27:45
around that. So I'm just not making it up as
27:47
a as a software vendor. I think the the so I think this
27:52
industry is a little bit weird in that it's AI is still new and
27:57
there is a lot to, I want to say bring to market from when it
28:02
comes to to AI products. Whereas as I see ourselves as a
28:06
tech company and when we when we we buy a shit ton of AI, yeah, I
28:11
agree. That's the unit, it's metric.
28:13
But there there's really, there's really a lot that we do
28:15
and we're basically completely AI Centrix like a 90% of the
28:20
code is generated, 70% of customer support inquiries are
28:23
resolved by AI with the the actual feedback given by the by
28:29
the oils themselves. And there is a lot more that
28:31
basically is entirely running almost autonomously.
28:34
And this once it's there, it's basically accelerate
28:37
exponentially on the on the next iteration of model and more
28:40
importantly on the implementation of LVI.
28:44
And when you look when the reality is that when you look at
28:47
a property manual software website or ancillary vendors
28:49
website that there's nothing of the same scale.
28:53
So I think there is a fringe of users as today are basically
28:56
considering that they're, I mean they're developing their
28:59
property management companies on cloud code on other wizard coded
29:03
application that are absolutely stellar at this point in time
29:06
like we do many of that in Germany.
29:09
It it just yeah, for for them, they they basically are leaving
29:14
today. I think many operators in the
29:17
industry are leaving probably in the two years ago where
29:20
basically an inbox AI, for example, would be, would be new.
29:23
We, we have those features, we, we know, we know what they do
29:27
and they're absolutely amazing. But it is not nowhere near the
29:30
state of play of for the industry.
29:32
So that's why I was referring to us launching our MCP so that you
29:36
can actually directly build your workflows outside the hospitable
29:40
for refocusing us on the, I want to say on the connectivity
29:43
layer, the integration with the booking platforms and adding
29:46
layers and layers on top of that.
29:47
But basically, it's faster to be interacting with the product via
29:53
via an AI agent. And we're totally OK to embrace
29:55
that because that means more greater customer satisfaction
30:00
overall. And so as this industry is quite
30:03
proprietary, I think we're going to need to find like this, there
30:07
is going to be this kind of K curve where people that are not
30:11
adopting AI are adopting it in a way that's very proprietary, are
30:14
going to decline compared with others that basically are
30:16
opening up and really seizing the opportunity a lot more.
30:20
Back to direct bookings then and, and the OTAs like Airbnb,
30:25
booking.com, Verbo, of course, from from hospitable's point of
30:28
view, what's the smart strategy do you think for hosts today?
30:32
I mean, obviously, you know, potentially there's going to be
30:34
new people coming on board using your product because you've got
30:38
the, the freemium. Now what, what would be the
30:41
suggestion to them if they kind of get their direct booking site
30:44
for the first time? How should they be?
30:47
What should their strategy be? I should say that basically it
30:50
took me a long time to to like direct bookings and to really
30:54
consider what, what was really like.
30:56
My, my mistake, I think initially was that you would be
30:59
able to compete with the marketing dollars of booking or,
31:02
or Airbnb, and that's not really quite the case.
31:05
The rate the, the, the first world strategy is get a listing
31:09
out, get a direct booking website out.
31:12
Make sure the listings names are going to be the same because
31:14
that's remains a great way to be discovered as a as a host.
31:19
And then really use it as a way to market whenever you have a
31:23
guest returning, whenever you have a guest that's going to be
31:27
extending their stay. Because the reality of it is
31:31
that you don't need to basically drive more of those commissions
31:35
out of their the guest pockets and your pocket when you could
31:38
basically just just book them in a direct fashion.
31:41
I think that's really is the sound approach.
31:44
The, the, the more elaborate hosts will basically have an
31:48
idea of a persona and what exactly are they are they going
31:51
for. I know as a host I was really,
31:55
as I was liquidating in Brussels, I knew my guests were
31:57
basically transit between Paris and and Amsterdam, that there
32:03
was a lot of group of friends and that's what I wanted to
32:06
attract with my BA testing experience.
32:08
So then there was a lot of opportunity for who exactly is
32:11
travelling with that. Actually that's where a lot of
32:13
Americans, a lot of people from from Asia that would be that
32:17
we'll be travelling over there doing this kind of big travel
32:20
around Europe. So I, I didn't have a booking
32:23
website at the time, but if I had, I would definitely want to
32:26
advertise to, to traveller communities that are travelling
32:29
around that are planning for trips around Europe to basically
32:32
advertise specifically for that one unique experience.
32:36
And I think there is there is a good amount for of success in
32:38
that strategy. What would your advice be to
32:41
people who are thinking they want to start taking direct
32:45
bookings but they're not sure whether to build an all singing
32:48
all dancing direct booking website for thousands of dollars
32:52
or just use APMS version which automatically builds them a
32:56
direct booking website? What would your advice be to
32:58
those people? Yeah.
32:59
So it's basically the question like what do you do when you
33:02
have so much money that you don't know exactly where to
33:04
spend it? Well, that's, that's a great
33:07
motivation. I mean, is it a great motivation
33:09
to, to create? I, I don't think it is you, you
33:11
need to allocate a budget for everything.
33:13
We are bootstrappers. We sell the product before it's
33:16
built and then we before we sell the product that we sell the
33:19
product that we have before we have the product that we want.
33:23
And we iterate over that quickly over time.
33:26
So get your first booking, your direct booking website as less
33:32
is less a reflection of it. It's not a reflection of the
33:35
attractability of the property. So you want to present yourself
33:38
to the word that matters to you. Your guest wants savings there.
33:43
It's a completely misaligned conversation.
33:45
Your guests will book on direct if they have savings from what
33:48
they want to book on Airbnb. You are in competition with your
33:51
with your booking platform. You can present the fantastic
33:54
magazine, very well designed, very well crafted.
33:57
It's ridiculous if you didn't have basically the budget
34:00
warranted because you have previous direct booking
34:02
reservations, get a direct booking out, get get to a site
34:07
that can allow you to take a direct booking.
34:10
Then you can unlock more budget over that, over that, over that
34:14
particular channel. But you need to get to that
34:16
first direct booking before starting investing into
34:18
anything. Especially now I believe the
34:21
need for a website might go down simply because the discovery
34:27
ability is going to be might be done through LLMS, not via a
34:33
simple Google search. Google search and that means the
34:37
agent will extract all the information in any way in in
34:40
adjacent format in a free form. It does.
34:43
It doesn't care about the specific artifacts that you
34:46
have, the different images. It may actually interfere with
34:49
the ability that it may have to be reading the website content.
34:52
Although LLM models LLMS are fantastic this today.
34:56
So it just basically getting away to get a booking done where
34:59
the the AI agent can enter a credit card and get and get a
35:03
booking done that I think is probably most relevant in this
35:07
day and age. The PMS website will get you a
35:11
functional website at no extra cost that are being improved
35:15
that are being used by many users, hundreds, thousands of
35:20
users. They work we so we celebrate
35:25
across the hospitable host the the milestones when hosts are
35:29
reaching like 100 K, $100,000 in direct bookings, 500,000 year
35:34
bookings and millions of dollars in direct bookings.
35:37
And the number one performer on hospitable has been using for
35:40
years. A hospitable template actually
35:42
was legacy that we do not support anymore and we asked
35:46
them to please change. They made they took they took
35:50
one that 1,000,000 indirect bookings before they change it
35:54
the the template. So this really is a is a
35:58
telltale sign that if you are motivated, if you have a
36:01
strategy, if you have the channel, if you just like
36:04
continue to work on the system on I think the same listing
36:06
title, same listing names and and marketing with, you know,
36:10
for example, logos on all your property management companies on
36:13
picture like on broaded or pillows or TV with with a
36:19
particular logo. All those things that work, they
36:21
will be there will be bookings. You will be able to capture
36:24
demand that is created on on the Brooking platform and that's
36:27
what how it works. No, you don't need to have you
36:30
need to have the other thing that I want to say, please, if
36:34
you have plenty of of platforms that now allow you to create
36:38
your own website, you I can recommend replit.
36:41
This is the one that we've been using, Antony, that's absolutely
36:43
amazing. It can it can shoot at the right
36:46
booking website for you for 10. Yeah, $2020.00 I think.
36:51
And you can be the designer. You can have all the features
36:54
that you would like. You integrate the booking widget
36:57
from your property and admin software like hospitable and you
37:00
get probably something that would be invaluable to to anyone
37:05
right now. What I'm saying is that it's not
37:07
where you should be putting your energy.
37:09
Do the sale, do the marketing. The website is is a tiny part of
37:13
that. Very well said.
37:16
There are now hundreds of tools out there like we've been
37:18
mentioning, so many AI tools popping up.
37:20
We've got pricing software of course, cleaning apps,
37:23
messaging, automation and a lot more.
37:26
Even so, it was a company the other day reviewing all the
37:28
thousands of photos that you clean it takes to try and work
37:31
out what maintenance needs doing.
37:33
What do you think a modern tech stack for a professional host
37:38
should actually look like back in 2026?
37:41
So we integrate with all of them and we are competing with all of
37:45
them as well as a proper team and software.
37:47
So I think now we're especially there.
37:50
So there there, there is probably going to be a lot of
37:53
consolidation of features within property and software.
37:56
I was alluding before to 90% of code being created by AI at a
37:59
company like Hospitable. That means we're able to what
38:04
choose to take quarters, we can compress in two weeks.
38:06
What choose to take weeks, we compress in two in two days.
38:10
And all of that is basically to re reinforce the current
38:14
foundation all the time. But there is room also for, for
38:17
building some, some new features.
38:20
And so the, the general we want to be that super app that's able
38:24
to accommodate all the needs while at the same time having
38:27
the integration partners that if you want something special, we
38:30
make it, we make it available to you.
38:32
That's the case. For example, for dynamic
38:33
pricing, we we are integrated with all the dynamic pricing
38:36
providers, but we also have APMS offer where we are doing our
38:42
own, where we are doing our dynamic pricing and that is
38:45
easier to use that's directly embedded within a property
38:48
manual software. There is a lot less support
38:50
that's needed for because it's a product that's a lot more, a lot
38:53
simpler to basically drive the revenue of users that have no
38:57
familiarity with dynamic pricing software.
39:00
We've unveiled the same when it comes to cleaning software.
39:02
So we've unveiled our operations product with the checklist, with
39:05
the pictures, with the upcoming inventory management,
39:09
multilingual support, chat and payments so you can pay your
39:14
cleaners directly upon completion of a job.
39:17
We are also integrated obviously with Sterno and Brizway who are
39:20
leaders in operations. And the idea is that we can
39:24
offer based on the feedback that we receive, a differentiated
39:28
offering that is a bit different from market.
39:30
I mean, a simple dynamic pricing software doesn't really exist in
39:34
the market and it will never exist in the market because you
39:37
want to capture as a dynamic pricing software company, you
39:40
have an incentive to grow more complex.
39:42
You want to cater, you want to have all the long tail features
39:45
to be working for you because there's going to be that one
39:47
customer that that's going to that's going to make it so.
39:51
But in the dynamic pricing software module, dynamic pricing
39:54
module within a property manual software, we can actually keep
39:57
things simple. So yeah, our job is to have a
40:00
super app where you are able to to really start well until you
40:04
develop those very long tail needs, if I if I may say.
40:08
And then we can obviously use an integrated partner.
40:11
They are great to be working with.
40:14
But yeah. Looking ahead then, how do you
40:16
think the property management software space will evolve?
40:21
Are we going to see more consolidation?
40:23
It's likely we're going to see a lot more AI or something
40:27
completely different. Where on earth are we heading?
40:30
Yeah, I, I would love to know. I have, I have a stick in this
40:34
so I can, I can vote. I think the business model is
40:36
going to change. I think the the recurring
40:40
business, the recurring subscription for all property
40:43
managed software on a per property basis should die over
40:47
over over a readily fast time frame.
40:51
And that means every property managed software has the
40:53
opportunity now to pivot towards what is the best way to be
40:57
generating revenue for their host, for their, for their
41:01
property manager. So that, that is really one of
41:05
the big bets that we're having with essentials and with other
41:08
initiatives such As for example, introducing, introducing owners
41:14
to property managers and back and vice versa to help them grow
41:17
their, their business and while improving the quality of hosting
41:21
and definitely their their revenue and basically being
41:25
closer to the flow of funds so that we can basically maximize
41:29
the revenue. We have an incentive to maximize
41:30
the revenue being being generated all over.
41:34
I think the, the more AI is something that I think there,
41:38
there are more features on at hospitable that we've probably
41:41
killed AI features that we've killed and basically we have
41:44
allowed to release in the public because sometimes it just feels
41:47
gimmicky and it doesn't really provide a, a great opportunity
41:51
for us in the additional productivity.
41:53
So we believe in initiative like an MCP, we believe in some form
41:57
of agentic onboarding where you just basically tell us what you
42:01
want to do and we can shape the feature for you prepare the
42:05
feature, which is a big problem for a deep product like a like a
42:08
property on a software that frankly the, the value of a
42:12
listing description group click and you and it adjust is pretty
42:15
limited over time. You end up with something very
42:17
different than what you would like to market for your avatar.
42:21
The, the consolidation bit is something I'm curious about.
42:26
I think it's, it's, it's a private equity owned industry
42:31
there many companies, many private equity funds have been
42:34
making their bets, others are waiting.
42:39
So I, I don't really know all that what that would play out
42:41
because I do not believe this is the kind of thing where you
42:44
consolidate a lot more. What we've seen is more new AI
42:49
first providers arriving. So it doesn't mean that there is
42:54
basically a ton of consolidation happening Overall.
42:58
I, I, I think, yeah, that's basically they're the biggest.
43:00
The thing that I wish is basically a complete change of
43:04
of business model for property manual software that is aligned
43:07
in terms of incentives with the OS themselves.
43:10
So your property manual software should be making money whenever
43:13
you are making more money than what you'll be doing if you
43:17
didn't have a property software. It feels like that's a
43:20
fundamental conversation change, a fundamental sales call change
43:25
where rather than the PMS saying we're going to charge you X
43:30
amount a month, it's going to be we're going to make you X amount
43:33
a month. Yeah, extra money through direct
43:35
bookings, through up sales to ancillary income.
43:38
That is the job that a property manual software can do, getting
43:41
you listed on more ways on more channels so that you generate
43:43
more revenue. I mean, isn't that, isn't that
43:45
what what we're supposed to be doing?
43:47
I think it is. So the Essentials launch is a
43:49
way to reposition on that line. Fantastic, Pierre, Camille, it's
43:54
been a real pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the
43:57
Host Planet podcast. And thank you so very much for
43:59
having me. If there's one thing to take
44:00
away from this conversation, the way hosts use technology is
44:03
changing fast, and the gap between professional operators
44:07
and everyone else is only getting bigger.
44:10
If you want to stay ahead, you need to adapt, systemize, and
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