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Leadership Lessons from 22 Years in Construction with Natalie Jelavich - TLP168 · The Land Development Podcast with Ryan Glick

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've been in construction for 22 years and I've watched a lot of things happen.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: There are times when the wheels felt like they were coming off, you know, and when they felt like they were coming off, it was time to pause and regroup.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: When we were younger and we were doing this, I think we made a lot more impulsive decisions, like, hey, we're gonna go and do this because you're young and you don't have as much to lose.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, what's going on, everybody?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the Land Development Podcast.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Ryan Glick.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm excited to have Natalie Jelovich with me.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Natalie's the executive vice president at Marcus General Engineering.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Natalie, thanks for joining me.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me, Ryan.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's uh let's dig into your background uh right off the bat here.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I think just generally, how did you get into the construction industry?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I had kind of an unconventional start.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I um I was a art and design major in college, and I had a friend who had moved up to the Sacramento area and he was starting a construction firm.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he had asked me when I graduated from college if I had any interest in coming to work for him.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: He and his partner wanted to start a TV and Hydro Flesh company to support their operations, and they asked me to get involved, and I really didn't have a career path at the time coming out of art school, and so I thought, you know, jump into this and get a little experience.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I started with that.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: I learned a lot of administrative duties kind of along the way, and I learned how to start up a company.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that just kind of that was kind of the start of it.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I a few years after that, we had acquired a trucking company.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I took on that role as well um and started running heavy haul.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I had just I kind of spent probably 10 or 12 years um really doing those two things.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then our ownership group had decided to acquire a concrete company and they wanted to start um some wall work and different things.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: We, you know, we were GCing a lot of stuff.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I had taken on a role as VP of kind of all the ancillary companies and really did that for a handful of years.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then as our company grew in scale on the GC side, we decided to bridge all operations.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I fell into the role I'm in today, which is EVP of everything.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you, I mean, looking at your track record and everything and your history um in your career, it seems like you've always gravitated toward the leadership roles, right?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that you enjoy.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: What was it about that versus, you know, obviously we can go several different routes in our careers, right?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: We can be an individual contributor on a team, but we also can get into leadership.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: What uh was it about leadership that drew you there?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think it's funny.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think a lot of people would draw parallels to the creative mind and leadership.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I find leadership very creative.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um I, you know, I I solve a lot of problems day to day, and that requires creativity.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some people are kind of naturally born to lead.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't I don't know that I would classify myself as that as much as um I like to find solutions, and it it kind of ended up inherently, I just kind of fell into leadership because of it.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do you uh so you mentioned at the outset that your your major was art and design.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so you talk about the creativity side of things.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you really do you feel like that experience and kind of your background in that has helped you when it comes to your various roles throughout your career?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I think I look at things from a lot of different angles.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't, I, you know, I don't think a leader can get pigeonholed into one kind of train of thought.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um I I force myself to constantly look at things from a broad perspective.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it's weird, but you know, art school kind of pulls that out of you a little bit.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I so I I do actually apply that in my day-to-day life in construction.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: What type of, and this is I'm completely going off the the topic here, but what type of art do you enjoy doing?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, now I I do more interior stuff just for fun.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously super busy with what I do at Marcus, but um I do do a lot of interior stuff um for myself.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Back then I did a lot more studio art, so painting was my medium.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't, I wish I could say I did that.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's no time for that now.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not as much time.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, well, let's talk about uh Marcus uh general engineering, name of the company.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um can you, for those who don't know, could you talk about what the company does, uh what types of projects and everything, and then also where you operate out of.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, Marcus, we're a heavy civil GC.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we, I would say a lot, most people would identify us.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, on the private side, we do a ton of residential work and commercial work.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, we do do public works as well.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um we are we operate throughout California.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're also licensed and operate in Nevada and Arizona.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then with uh with your role in the company, what does your role and responsibilities look like there as far as uh, you know, a day-to-day or the types of things that you're um overseeing within the organization?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that will help kind of set the tone for as we dig into some other topics, you know, related to the industry and everything, what what does your role look like?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say that I'm I'm kind of the bridge between our CEO and the rest of the executive team.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um I report directly to our CEO and owner, and then I work directly with all of the VPs um at our company and and I I jokingly call myself the get shit done girl um because I I say my role is to basically take his strategy and filter it throughout the organization, make sure it gets done.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So something I was just thinking about as you were uh as you're talking about that, I wonder when you're so you're you're in the role you're in right now.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: You obviously have a number of people that work for this organization.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: You have a lot of people who are working on projects out there in the field and everything.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: How do you best make sure that you can relate?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because I think there sometimes there's an issue where, you know, you have the you have the quote unquote the suits, and then you have the people out there in the boots, right?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm not necessarily classifying you as that, but like how do you make that connection and make sure that everybody's on the same page?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think, I mean, my my start was I kind of did a little bit of everything.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I think in the beginning, I was probably more people would see me more out.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't want to say I've ever been a field employee, but you know, way back when, when we were smaller, I had a relationship with Foreman.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had um, you know, our all of our operators knew me that, you know, obviously as we've grown and scaled that that that space between um roles has I don't have that as much anymore.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I do think that when you look at what we do, we set the tone at the top, absolutely, but the people in the field are the ones that have to get it done.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, we do our best to kind of try and make sure that any decision we make, we make with them in mind.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our VPs are very active in the field, certainly more active than I am.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I would also say that our CEO, that's that's what he enjoys.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: He he grew up in a construction family, a family.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, his family did our type of work for years.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's all he knows.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so he was operating heavy equipment at a young age, and he was a foreman.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think he relates to the field a lot more than than I do, for instance.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that kind of helps keep keep that tone so that I can do what I do well and he can still do what he enjoys, which is being in the field, getting work.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: How how do you see things?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've been a part of organizations that have like grown and taken on, just basically spun up different branches of the company and everything like that.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like from a team member standpoint and trying to keep everybody pointed in the right direction, right?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: So people listening in, they may be doing one small project right now, right?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: But they have aspirations to do more projects where their team's gonna grow and they're gonna have more balls up and up in the air, right, that they're trying to juggle.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: What had what did that look like from your experience?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And uh how did you how did you keep things organized?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, there's a lot of trial and error when you grow.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think um we, you know, we don't have a crystal ball to predict all the problems.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say that my experience has been no different.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've been in construction for 22 years and I've watched a lot of things happen.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are times when the wheels felt like they were coming off, you know, and when they felt like they were coming off, it was time to pause and regroup.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think in a perfect scenario, knowing what I know now, 22 years later, I would tell you um when we were younger and we were doing this, um, and I say we just as an organization, I I think we made a lot of a lot more um impulsive decisions, like, hey, we're gonna go and do this because you're young and you don't have as much to lose now.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I the way I look at it, especially because as you grow, your risk grows.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think we all identify that the best way to do things is to really strategize, have a very strong financial um footing before you jump into things and really set that foundation up front because otherwise you're chasing, you're you're always chasing your tail.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been in both situations, you know, so I know what's success is more successful and and um, you know, I've I've chased my tail for sure plenty of times throughout the years.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I I I like that description of it.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think on the flip side of it, then I I'd be curious what you think on the flip side.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you avoid getting into the analysis paralysis phase of where maybe you start to over-strategize or maybe you're thinking a little bit too much about it?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do you are there certain things you do to make sure, like, all right, we have the pieces we need.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let's now take action.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think it's easy.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I see it every day with my team members.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I have some team members that are so analytical that they have trouble getting things off the ground.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you need those team members.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then I have other team members that are a lot more impulsive and maybe not as thorough, and and I think it's no different from at a corporate level, right?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that for like the and you have to be able to start something and get it off the ground and realize not everything can be perfect.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's you'll never really get anywhere if you can't do that, but you have to also be very calculated when you're making those decisions.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, uh from a risk standpoint, be calculated, understand what financial risks you're taking, and understand, you know, if things don't work out the way that you want them to, how do we come out of that?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um, because you don't want to take the whole ship down, right?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I look at our companies, we have multiple companies, and you don't want one bad investment or one, you know, bad decision to take take everything out.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think being very calculated, fine, the financial aspect of it is is key in construction.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then also knowing when something's good enough to get off the ground, because leadership, you're if you're always striving for perfection, you're never gonna get anywhere.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I wouldn't have a job if if everything was solved up front.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you never know what you're gonna come across.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can't anticipate everything.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that's a that's a big challenge for a lot of people who are aspirational developers and stuff too, because they're looking at deals from the sideline and seeing other people do deals and do projects.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And things are never just right to go do their first deal.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I think what you said is right.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to, I mean, you can be riskier when you're it's just a one-man show.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: But when you've got other people who are depending upon their paycheck to feed their families and send their kids to school and everything like that, you have to be a little more cautious and thoughtful in the actions you take in your company.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean it, yeah, it makes complete sense.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um when projects do get off the ground and uh you know your your company and your teams are working with um, you know, the owners of the projects or with uh, you know, contractors, projects, teams, basically everybody together, what tends to be the biggest, you know, challenge that they run into on some of these projects?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for for us right now, I would say engineering is is our biggest issue.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so a lot of the pre-construction process is really important for us because um one of the things I see a lot is that, you know, we're in California.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: We deal with regulations.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know where you're out of, but it's kind of crazy.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we have we have engineering issues all the time.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think getting in front of that and the cost impacts that come from that is probably our number one challenge to building a successful project.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm located in Iowa, so we we have our challenges.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we have as as many uh as much red tape as what you have out there in California.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that many states do.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um we've had others from California on before, and we we get into some of those topics and everything, but the you know, it's the the joke I've heard on here is that if you if you can develop in California, you can develop anywhere.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I believe it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: We do some FEMA work in other states.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'll I'll tell you that is like I don't want to say it's a walk in the park, but it's always kind of a breath of fresh air when we take on those kinds of projects because you know, something about getting out of California um and having a fresh perspective every once in a while.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I um those of you watching, you saw my my lights just completely turned off in my room here.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So give me just one second.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to I'm gonna go turn my lights back on.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why they just shut off in uh in here, so give me just one second.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was a first.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um what uh okay, so speaking of California and some of the challenges that you face, have there been certain things that I I guess I wanted I want to understand kind of both sides of it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Have there been things that have gotten more difficult?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then I also want to talk about are there things that have gotten easier um over the time that you've been been involved in the industry?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, oh, well, difficult.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, uh regulation is always gonna be an uphill battle for us.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we see a lot of we've got a lot of regulatory agencies that are involved in our processes, and and it's almost comical because it feels like they don't talk to each other and they have conflicting, you know, regulations.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's something we're always gonna deal with here.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it makes building very challenging, as far as as I see it.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it makes it challenging for the developers, for us as the GCs, and and I actually think it's probably more challenging for the agencies themselves too.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say that that's always gonna be an uphill battle.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um things that get easier, I don't I don't know that I would it I think for me, time like I I don't know.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't really think that things necessarily have gotten easier, but maybe with time and wisdom and whatnot, I feel like I'm able to roll things off my back a lot easier than I than they were 15 years ago.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a little tricky here.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, that's kind of what I was thinking.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking it would probably be less of the the environment got easier, but more so you over time have understood best how to navigate it.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's not necessarily easier, but maybe to the outside world looking in, it looks like it's easier for you, but you're still having to, you know, bang your head against the wall every once in a while trying to get things done.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one thing that I think, again, a lot of the the developers listening in, I think everybody has a certain level of sophistication to their, you know, how they manage their company, how they manage projects, how they manage their people.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it would be interesting to hear your perspective on some things that you've found to be beneficial when it comes to establishing some of those uh processes and putting those things in place.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because as you can imagine, I think most people probably don't have actual processes or they're not very sophisticated.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: They kind of go out, they do this project, and then they go do this project, or they have a few projects going on at once.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any thoughts on what that process for you has looked like getting some of these things set up to be a little more organized?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'll say for me personally, standardizing our processes has been key.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um we when you're when you're small, you it's much easier to have a pulse on everything.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: But as you grow in scale, the distance between where you, you know, like where I sit or where our CEO sits and a project becomes greater and greater.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And he can show up on a project one day and it looks good.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't have your pulse on, you know, on the financials and the quality and all these various aspects, I mean, the rails can can just go, it's crazy.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can derail fast.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think really standardizing and it is key because you don't want one employee operating to one set of standards and then uh, you know, if if ambiguity is kind of your it's it's not your friend in construction because everybody can perceive something differently.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: So um operating to one system is is really, really important from a growth and scalability standpoint.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so the process is that that's all part of it, but understanding what that means has probably been the most important foundational piece for us.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: How about getting buy-in?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think human nature is that like, I don't don't bring me this list of things that I have to do on every project.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know what I need to do, it's in my head.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: How do you get buy-in from team members to follow the new processes?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: You have to get them involved.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I in it at all levels.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's again, where I sit, it looks very different from the person that's doing the administrative work.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do much administrative work anymore.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I have to have the people that are in the weeds helping guide it.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And what I've noticed it through through that is that when I involve these team members that are doing more of that administrative work in the build-out of the processes, the workflows, the standardizations, and I get their feedback, everybody's more willing to take ownership of the outcome.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think something that fits into that also is the company culture, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, how how open are team members to holding each other accountable if they're not following what the process is and everything?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: How have you been able to, you know, build a company culture?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, if, and I'm assuming with the company you're at now, um I'm actually not sure how long you've been there, but maybe there was a culture when you came in, and and what has that looked like, I guess, through all of your experience as far as trying to shape a culture within a company and and have people hold each other accountable so everybody's you know rolling in the same direction.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been with these companies for 22 years.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been there for a while and I've watched the culture evolve.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you 22 years ago, um, it was the Wild West.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we were just a bunch of cowboys.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't consider myself a cowboy, but I would tell you that it felt like we were a bunch of cowboys, you know, putting pipe in the ground and doing all these different things.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's changed.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you that one of the things that's been important for our culture is maintaining that more personal relationship with our employees.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we really try hard to continue to do that.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but as we've grown and we've had to put more processes into place.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: It, you know, people will inevitably complain that it feels like it's getting too corporate.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, so I don't know if you're ever in a win-win situation there.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think again, when you get them involved and you have to tell people the reason why we're trying to achieve this.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if it's a quality control measure that we're working on, why, you know, what what was the outcome that led to us making this change?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when they understand the why behind things, they tend to be more apt to want to contribute to the solution than when you shove something down their throat.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, so we try really hard to not have that ever be the case.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how how do you measure success with some of this?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you make sure that, you know, things maybe don't need to be iterated on a little bit further to get them to a certain spot?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we try and when we build out a process, we try and build in measurables to that.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: So whether it's a financial measurable, whether it's a reporting metric, um, sometimes it's it's as simple as, hey, we need to make sure people are doing this.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're we're gonna follow up and see, you know, that they're actually partaking and getting this information back to us.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and other times it's a financial outcome.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: It just kind of depends on what it is, but but we always try and build that measurable um piece into it.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a milestone um or any of that.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have over the years, uh, whether you were directly or indirectly involved in it, do you have a project that has been one that's been your favorite or has stood out most that uh you know your company has worked on?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've been involved in so many things.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to say that I have one, and I'm probably kind of like a child in this aspect where whatever I'm working on in the moment feels like the the piece that's making me the happiest.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um because whatever I'm working on is typically solving a problem and it feels challenging and rewarding all at once.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, right now I'm working on, I'm really trying to bridge the gap between the field and the office and make the team feel a little more cohesive.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: So trying to create a bunch of measures that really make our foreman and superintendents feel more aligned and empowered with what we're trying to do at the, you know, and it's on the back end of things.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it that's kind of more of a quality control measure.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's getting all of our departments involved.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: So our, you know, procurement more with aligned with the field and estimating more aligned with the field.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Ops has always been aligned with the field, but you know, fine our finance department getting the team out there and in front of the foreman uh more.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I like that because again, you know, I don't think our for me, our field doesn't, we might go out and I'm just gonna throw numbers.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Say, say we're out there building a$20 million project.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: You have one person in charge of a$20 million project, like that project will be done in a year.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And if you think about the power that that holds and the, I mean, that alignment with the form and building and the success to not only ourselves, but also our clients is key.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it it feels like a very good place for me to put my efforts right now.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like it's something that can really impact change for the better.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna tell you that that's my favorite.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm sure if I think back hard long and hard, I could tell you I have lots of them.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure it's always tough.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's tough for people to come up with that, that one project, you know, because there are so many over the years.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, kind of shifting back to some of your personal career, you know, aspirations and everything, something I noticed is that you're pretty involved in professional organizations.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, why has that been something that's been important for you?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think making connections, um, I think it, you know, I I like to put my head down and work.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think without those organizations, I don't, I don't think I would get involved in the community as as much as I I do by getting being a part of those.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think it's really important to get out there.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: I also the older I get, the more I want to mentor.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that those organizations are really key for that.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't claim to know everything, but I think I've had 22 years of experience and I'd love to get this generation involved in what we do.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's really important.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, somebody's gonna have to take my place someday.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so who who are those people?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really this next generation.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: I really believe a lot in the young kids.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we've made construction super appealing or land development.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, a lot of these kids wanted to go into tech, and I I want to get people involved.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually a very exciting industry.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of things that we can do.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so so I like that aspect of getting involved in these professional organizations.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and one of those organizations you're involved in is Ladies in Land.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: What has that experience been like so far for you?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I what I really like about Ladies in Land is that it's an education first foundation.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that when we feel like we have the tools, we feel a little bit more confident and empowered.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that that's what Ladies and Land is out there doing.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I'm a very social person, so I have no issues.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I could go to a mixer.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Ladies and Land is different in that regard, and I think it's really good for especially there's here's the thing.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: I there's so much knowledge that I can glean from all of these different educational pieces that they're putting on.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and if I'm if I'm getting that after 22 years, there's a lot of other people that are really getting it as well.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's just a great foundation for young people to be involved in, people of my age.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's been really great.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm wondering too, you uh you had mentioned, you know, the this up-and-coming generation.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not as many people were necessarily coming up interested in getting into the the trades or getting into construction and land development.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And when you think about some of those younger professionals that you're, you know, you're now interacting with and maybe mentoring some of them, what do you think, you know, they need more exposure to?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just more people in the industry, or what is it that the the younger generation needs uh more exposure to?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think for me, the younger generation, like being well-rounded and learning different aspects is going to be so key to their success in this industry.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the things that I think is so great about the younger generation is they're they they're confident in their abilities, um, but they want to climb the ladder really, really fast.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I mean, I know I'm a little old school, but I also think that there's a wealth of knowledge that comes from taking your time.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I will I referred back, I'll refer back to the heavy haul company that I ran.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: To be honest, that was probably the shittiest job I had have had in 22 years.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Running iron up and down the state.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was up at two o'clock in the morning when somebody couldn't find a piece of equipment.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was, I mean, I I don't think my phone ever turned off.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was exhausted and I truthfully hated it.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I will tell you that that experience, I I I learned iron and I I could go out to a job site and I understand what it is that we do through that.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and that was the start of it.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so sometimes I I think that that's what this generation is missing a little bit, is they want to get to to that ultimate destination so fast.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I think when you do that and you accelerate at such a fast pace, you there's lessons along the way that you miss out on.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and when you want to sit in a leadership role, you have to be able to look at things from a 10,000-foot view and and you have to be able to think of the impacts.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't get to look at things, I don't get to have tunnel vision when estimating comes to me and says, hey, you know, I'm running into this problem and this is how I want to solve it.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have to think about the impact on finance or operations.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and when you don't have some of those experiences, you just simply can't think that broad.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's fine.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: You touched on so many things there that just uh um struck a chord with me because I, you know, I think about back in the day too.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just I feel like the the generation, and a lot of it's not necessarily their fault because they've kind of been like, that's their life.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's you get instant access to everything.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like back in the day, like you you had to go rent a movie.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if the movie wasn't there, you had to try to show up earlier the next night or whatever to go try to get one that was maybe still in the return box or whatever.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: You couldn't just go to Netflix and watch a movie instantly or go buy a movie instantly and watch it.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: We had like, I feel like we had built-in patience into our childhood that we had to do, and now everything is just instant.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we were talking, talking before we're uh recording, and it's like if we need something or I need something for for the show or whatever, I just can get on Amazon and I can have it there.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: I could have it there today.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like it could be, it could be here later today.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think living in that type of world, but trying to figure out how to also have patience in that type of world, I think is really tough.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I see it all the time with our teams and and I will be the first person to tell you my I think the most successful people we have within our organization are the people that we have kind of have they're they're our homegrown people.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're the people that have grown up with us.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I'm a huge proponent of that.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, this instant gratification that we've kind of created through everything is it's hard because we just these kids don't want to give themselves time.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I see it, I see it with my 12 and 15 year old.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, I'm like, you guys, time keep like this is you're only gonna get such a short period of time to be a kid.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to grow up faster um than than you really need to.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and so, you know, these kids coming out of college, they have so much talent.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I really feel like sometimes I want to tell them like it's okay to pump the brakes, and don't you don't have to seek a VP role at the age of 26 or 30, you know.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um sometimes and you don't want to go into something unprepared for it.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: You have to challenging, I I deal with challenging situations all the time.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the wisdom that I get, you know, gained 15 years back is what got me through that challenging situation two months ago, you know, and and so time is in your favor.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I have those same conversations.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: My oldest is 16, and so we talk about, you know, we talk about this stuff too of you know, slow down, like slow slow down with some of these things.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be so quick.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the other thing too, I'll add to this, is that social media makes it very challenging for people today too, because especially, you know, you're coming out of college and all you see, and whether it's your Instagram feed or it's your YouTube feed is it's all of the pictures or the videos with headlines that are going to get your attention and are gonna get people clicking, and it's people talking to you about how, you know, they just made$50,000 yesterday or they just did this, and then you're sitting there looking at it and you're like, well, I didn't do that.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: I must, I must not, I must have something wrong with me.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people look at that.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And even in our our world here in the development world and construction, you could have aspirational developers out there looking at other young developers who are posting stuff like that, and they think if they're not doing the same thing that one person is doing or those few people are doing, then there's something wrong with them.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality is most of the people that have success, they went through some stuff to get there.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't magic, and they didn't just nap their finger and boom, they had their first successful project.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's rarely, rarely do you see people have like that quote unquote overnight success.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: It just isn't real.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I think that's the problem is what they're showing people, that's all perception, and they're seeing one snippet of it.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the the whole picture is definitely um different.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: It just has to be.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm not saying that there's not people that have gone out there and had instant success and think all the chips have fallen where they may, but I mean, that's not life.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: It rarely does that stick either.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so, you know, my hope is that that these kids really remember that and they give themselves grace because gosh, I mean, that's that's a big part of it.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I took up the game of golf a few years ago, which is like an infuriating game.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't like to suck at something.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so I go out there and I'm like, gosh, I suck at this game.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was playing golf with my sister's father-in-law one day, and he told me about this book, The Four Foundations of Golf, and he's like, You should just read it.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it was such a good reminder because he in the book, the author said, you know, what we see on TV when we watch the Masters are the highlights.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing the highlight reel.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we see on social media every day.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, these golfers make bad shots.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would somebody like me not make you know, 10 times the I of course, bad shots, you know, these guys are making.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's perception is it's crazy with social media.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we all have to be able to bring ourselves back to reality a little.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, for sure.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'll get off my soapbox here in a second.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: The uh the, you know, it's my my middle child plays, he loves basketball.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's a we constantly have a conversation where, you know, a lot of you know, he wants to get better at something, right?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you try to explain that this isn't something that's gonna happen quickly.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if you do this thing every day or at least six out of seven days for, let's say, all summer, I think by the fall you'll be able to do that thing.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like you'll be better at it.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: And just the thought of having to put that much effort into it.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so it can be hard when people they think about that such long term, and it's like, well, you just gotta just, you know, uh, you just gotta win this one day.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do the things today that are gonna get you to where you want to go.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so you try to like shrink it down into small bite-sized things that make it less scary.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, yeah, I definitely see what you're talking about.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just not everybody wants to necessarily think about all the stuff that's gonna have to go in it, but you just gotta stay focused, I think.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's uh let's shift into the last segment here, which is the lightning round.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, got five questions for you.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, first question, and you kind of already answered this at the beginning, but we'll have you uh give the answer here as well.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: But what was your first job in construction?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I ran a TV and HydroFlush company.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Started it and ran it.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, we still we still have that company today.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a lot of great people that work for us.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right, second one.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: What's one thing younger professionals should be ma this is funny that this is a question I had here, but what's one thing younger professionals should be more patient about?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean I just want to tell them, take your time, take your time, guys.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Really climbing the corporate ladder.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: I get it, we all have aspirations, but don't time is in your favor.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: All right, third one.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: What's the best career advice you've ever received?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think to have confidence in myself.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes we all kind of feel like we have imposter syndrome.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I I question myself on the daily, am I qualified?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know, can I do this?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that I just there's times where, you know, I I don't trust I don't I might myself, I guess, or my my level of confidence.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I have to kind of sit back and say, hey, you can do this.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: I there's not many things that I I I'm always willing to take on a new challenge.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think you have to do that with confidence, calculated um risk, but um I think that was probably the best thing somebody told me is believe in yourself.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: All right, fourth one.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: What's a skill more people in construction should develop?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Attention to detail.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think that um I again not to be misconstrued with analysis paralysis, I you know, you have to be able to launch.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I think sometimes um we move fast, especially in my role, like it with our company, you know, we're that middleman between developer and engineer and all all that.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you wanna you wanna get the product built.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if you compromise detail, it's never good.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: So all right, fifth one.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: What's something you hope changes over the next decade?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see more of our youth get involved in construction, definitely.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're the next generation.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, it's it's gonna be a lot harder for AI to take over our jobs.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is the trades are so important.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's always gonna be buildings to build.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's a great career.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a great career for me.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: I never, you know, if you asked me when I graduated college, I would not have told you I'd be sitting in a construction seat 22 years later, but I loved every second of it.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Natalie, that uh brings us to an end here.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: What's the best way for people listening in to connect with you and to learn more about your company?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on LinkedIn.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Natalie Jelovich Day.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: I work for Marcus General Engineering.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: You can find me on LinkedIn.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can check out Marcus uh www.mge-ca.com.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, I'd love to love to connect.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've enjoyed this podcast.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: All right, guys.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you look down in the description for this episode, you will see a link there to the show notes page, and those links will be on the show notes page.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Natalie, again, I really appreciate you hopping on here and uh talking through your experience in the industry and talking through um also the the little uh back and forth we had there on patience, which uh definitely is is a big deal and something that I love talking about because it's so interesting.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, otherwise uh that'll bring us to a close, guys.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not already subscribed, please click that button.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to have you back for the next one.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, we'll talk to you all next week.