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Transcript

Season 7 Therapy Session · I Am All In with Scott Patterson

0:00
Speaker 1: I am all in.
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Speaker 2: That's just you. I Am all in with Scott Patterson
0:19
Speaker 2: an iHeartRadio podcast.
0:20
Speaker 3: Everybody Scott Patterson, I Am all In Podcast one eleven productions, iHeartRadio, iHeartMedia,
0:25
Speaker 3: iHeart Podcast. One on one interview with Jonathan Decker, who
0:31
Speaker 3: is an LMFT. He is a licensed marriage and Family
0:36
Speaker 3: therapist and the CEO of Cinema Therapy and clinical director
0:41
Speaker 3: of Mended Light. He is a movie buff who has
0:45
Speaker 3: started a YouTube channel of therapizing if that's a word,
0:50
Speaker 3: a TV and film. He's got some links to Laurele
0:55
Speaker 3: I and Emily Scenes, Luke and Laurel I Scene, all
1:00
Speaker 3: kinds of things.
1:03
Speaker 1: iHeart podcasts. Listen on the iHeartRadio app.
1:08
Speaker 3: Tell us a little bit about how you ended up
1:13
Speaker 3: analyzing films and TV shows and characters they're in.
1:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you for having me. I am a
1:24
Speaker 2: forty three year old late bloomer for Gilmore Girls. I
1:28
Speaker 2: missed it by a couple of decades and now I'm
1:30
Speaker 2: just adoring it and can't get enough of it. But
1:33
Speaker 2: I've gotten to psychology. I wanted to be a filmmaker
1:37
Speaker 2: or director or a therapist, and when I was in
1:39
Speaker 2: school that's I was leaning one way or the other.
1:41
Speaker 2: Finally some work with some Matris teenagers, kind of like Jess.
1:44
Speaker 2: It steered me in the direction of psychology and therapy.
1:48
Speaker 2: But my passion for film never left me. And you know,
1:52
Speaker 2: I'd love to use movies and TV shows to illustrate
1:55
Speaker 2: abstract concepts about when you're talking about. Because I became
1:58
Speaker 2: a family therapist, healthy relationships, unhealthy relationships, What do these
2:03
Speaker 2: principles look like? Applied? And I found that film and
2:07
Speaker 2: TV was perfect in classes and in therapy for illustrating
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Speaker 2: what I was talking about.
2:12
Speaker 1: So why did you choose Gilmore Girls?
2:15
Speaker 2: I chose Gilmore Girls. That was actually our fans. So
2:18
Speaker 2: I've got the two channels Cinema Therapy and then Mended
2:21
Speaker 2: Light and Men Died Light. We do more television breakdowns,
2:25
Speaker 2: and the fans on Mended Light. I was asking, you know,
2:27
Speaker 2: what should I do next? I covered a couple of things,
2:30
Speaker 2: Buffy the Vampire Schleayer, Euphoria, a couple of things, and
2:33
Speaker 2: overwhelmingly the demand was for Gilmore Girls, far more than
2:39
Speaker 2: any show that's airing now, I have to say, And
2:43
Speaker 2: I was in my twenties when Gilmore Girls came out.
2:46
Speaker 2: I was not especially interested at the time. I was
2:49
Speaker 2: super into twenty four and Lost in the Office and
2:52
Speaker 2: things like that. And what's funny to me now that
2:54
Speaker 2: I'm watching Gilmore Girls is Luke is a character who
2:58
Speaker 2: would likely not watch a show called Gilmore Girls.
3:02
Speaker 1: That's for sure.
3:04
Speaker 2: So I see it, but I see him. If I
3:06
Speaker 2: had watched it, then I really I would have realized, Oh,
3:08
Speaker 2: Luke is, in addition to being a wonderful character in
3:11
Speaker 2: his own right, strategically, he's the surrogate for the boyfriends
3:15
Speaker 2: and the husbands who might not take interest to are
3:17
Speaker 2: forced to watch this show with their girlfriends or their wives.
3:20
Speaker 2: And then and then they attached to Luke. You know
3:22
Speaker 2: that that Luke kind of keeps everything real, keeps everything dry,
3:25
Speaker 2: brings it down to earth.
3:26
Speaker 4: Uh.
3:26
Speaker 2: But and so I started doing reaction videos to talk
3:30
Speaker 2: about the relationships on Gilmore Girls, and they are far
3:33
Speaker 2: and away our most popular videos on the channel. People
3:36
Speaker 2: just can't get enough of them, which staying power because
3:39
Speaker 2: you know, it's been a minute since you've been on
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Speaker 2: the air, and people just revisit it and love it
3:43
Speaker 2: and share it with their their own daughters. And strangely
3:47
Speaker 2: I'm drawn into it.
3:48
Speaker 1: Let's get into the therapy of it.
3:49
Speaker 2: Then.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so we think laurla I moved too fast into
3:53
Speaker 3: a relationship with Christopher. What do you think was her
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Speaker 3: thought processing that was trying to use him to heal
4:01
Speaker 3: from Luke.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I listen. Having so a little bit of
4:06
Speaker 2: a quick background, I was part way through the fourth
4:09
Speaker 2: season when I got contacted about this podcast, and I
4:12
Speaker 2: have crammed for the Final Life so in the past
4:14
Speaker 2: week and a half binging gil Girls from season four,
4:17
Speaker 2: season seven, and so it's all very fresh for me.
4:20
Speaker 2: And I do think Loralai has always used Christopher as
4:25
Speaker 2: the It was the plan that she had in mind
4:28
Speaker 2: if he ever grew up right, if he ever got
4:30
Speaker 2: his act together. And I absolutely think she realized that
4:33
Speaker 2: Luke is her soulmate. I think she realized that Luke
4:36
Speaker 2: is better to her than anyone's ever been to her,
4:39
Speaker 2: and that wound is so fresh and so deep that
4:41
Speaker 2: she's going to go to what she's comfortable with, even
4:44
Speaker 2: though she knows it's wrong, right wrong for her. She's
4:47
Speaker 2: been down that road with Christopher several times, and the
4:51
Speaker 2: biggest determinant of that is not because Christopher has grown
4:53
Speaker 2: up in a lot of ways, but is where her
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Speaker 2: heart lies. And her heart absolutely lies with Luke. There's
5:00
Speaker 2: no ifs ans or butts about that. I was team
5:02
Speaker 2: Luke from the first episode. By the way, I'm not
5:07
Speaker 2: even brown nosing. I'm just saying, before I even knew
5:11
Speaker 2: that you had a podcast or that you and I
5:12
Speaker 2: were going to be interacting in all my videos, I
5:14
Speaker 2: just kept saying, if she doesn't lose, if she doesn't
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Speaker 2: choose Luke by the end, I'm gonna riot.
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Speaker 1: And riot we will.
5:24
Speaker 3: So the obvious advice would be for Laura I to
5:27
Speaker 3: give herself more time between dumping Luke and getting involved
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Speaker 3: with Christopher again.
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Speaker 1: But do you think that part of her wanted to.
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Speaker 3: At least try to see if it could work out
5:40
Speaker 3: to complete her own family dynamic.
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Speaker 2: She didn't want to live with it. What if. I
5:45
Speaker 2: don't know that she needed to take it all the
5:47
Speaker 2: way to marriage, but to always whether she ended up
5:50
Speaker 2: with Luke or not, should I close the door on
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Speaker 2: Christopher permanently or could it work out this time? And
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Speaker 2: I think she needed to explore that space in order
5:59
Speaker 2: to have to have closure, and for all she knew
6:03
Speaker 2: it was going to work out this time. Right, and
6:05
Speaker 2: she entered into it perhaps headstrong and perhaps on the
6:11
Speaker 2: rebound and perhaps hurting, but I think she entered into
6:13
Speaker 2: it with good faith of want I want to have
6:16
Speaker 2: this family dynamic that I've always wanted to have. And
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Speaker 2: what I love about the previous episode to the one
6:22
Speaker 2: we're talking about today, or at least I guess the
6:25
Speaker 2: past couple episodes, when she writes that letter for Luke,
6:27
Speaker 2: it's because she realizes that Luke has been more of
6:31
Speaker 2: a father to Rory than Christopher ever was, and he's
6:36
Speaker 2: in that sense been more of a partner to me
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Speaker 2: and in a lot of other senses as well.
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Speaker 3: M all right, so you know that Christopher really pushed
6:44
Speaker 3: her to marry him in Paris? Yeah, what would have
6:50
Speaker 3: been a different option to handle the forceful way Christopher
6:54
Speaker 3: was asking Laurel I to marry him.
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Speaker 1: What should Laurel I maybe have done?
7:00
Speaker 2: I think if there is one of one of loural
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Speaker 2: Live's weaknesses and one of her beautiful characteristics, honestly, is
7:08
Speaker 2: that she can be spontaneous and what she's feeling is
7:14
Speaker 2: what she runs with, and sometimes she regrets that and
7:18
Speaker 2: sometimes following her gut leads her down the path. Christopher
7:22
Speaker 2: pressured her, and she yielded, And I think she yielded,
7:27
Speaker 2: as you were saying, for all for other reasons you're
7:28
Speaker 2: talking about. I think she wanted to test this family dynamic,
7:31
Speaker 2: see that could finally work. I think the fact that
7:35
Speaker 2: if you have ever loved somebody and there's still goodwill
7:39
Speaker 2: between you, then that love is always there. It may
7:42
Speaker 2: change form, it may no longer be romantic, it may
7:44
Speaker 2: no longer be sexual, but the people that matter to
7:47
Speaker 2: us will always matter to us. And so it gets
7:50
Speaker 2: kind of hazy. So what could she have done? She
7:52
Speaker 2: could have asked for time. She could have said, you know,
7:56
Speaker 2: we're in Paris and I'm heartbroken and I don't want
8:00
Speaker 2: to end up alone, and so I don't know if
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Speaker 2: I want to say yes to you, Christopher. I don't
8:06
Speaker 2: know if that's Paris and my loneliness talking, or if
8:09
Speaker 2: that's because this is right and I've been through enough
8:13
Speaker 2: that I really want to make sure it's on stable footing.
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Speaker 2: So I'm not saying no. I'm saying, let me let
8:19
Speaker 2: me think about it, and let me let me examine
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Speaker 2: my heart and see what it is that I want
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Speaker 2: to do.
8:24
Speaker 3: What do you think of Christopher's he is he just
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Speaker 3: selfish or is he a narcissist?
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Speaker 1: Because it always seems to come back. I mean even
8:31
Speaker 1: when he's you know, it's always about him.
8:34
Speaker 3: He always makes it about him, and he has inconvenience
8:37
Speaker 3: and he was busy and I'm sorry I couldn't. You know,
8:40
Speaker 3: he didn't show up at the hospital in season seven
8:43
Speaker 3: for Richard because he was a little in a snit
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Speaker 3: over Luke.
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Speaker 2: I would say more selfish than narcissism. I mean, you
8:49
Speaker 2: can say there's narcissistic traits there. The key thing about
8:53
Speaker 2: you know, narcissistic personality disorder that separates it from ego
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Speaker 2: or self absorption is a lack of passion, is a
9:01
Speaker 2: lack of empathy. And Christopher feels genuine remorse when he
9:06
Speaker 2: hurts people. The issue with him is that he's so
9:08
Speaker 2: consistently he's the yin to you to Luke's yang, because
9:12
Speaker 2: Christopher so consistently puts himself first, and then he feels
9:17
Speaker 2: bad for hurting others for when he does that and
9:20
Speaker 2: Luke does the opposite. He consistently puts other people first,
9:24
Speaker 2: and then what's left for him, you know, And I
9:26
Speaker 2: think that's one of the reasons why Luke is so
9:29
Speaker 2: often unhappy and grumpy is because he gives so much
9:34
Speaker 2: because he doesn't know how to not give. And I
9:38
Speaker 2: love watching some of you know, Luke's journey to kind
9:42
Speaker 2: of a healthier self interest, right to finding that balance
9:50
Speaker 2: because the thing that I love about Luke all the
9:51
Speaker 2: way back to one of my favorite moments very early on,
9:54
Speaker 2: is he hates and mocks the whole we're going to
9:58
Speaker 2: go stand out in the snow and do the Revolutionary
10:01
Speaker 2: War reenactment, but he still brings the guy's coffee, right,
10:04
Speaker 2: and then when they ask for when they say can
10:06
Speaker 2: we get hot chocolate or apple cider instead? Instead of
10:09
Speaker 2: saying are you kidding me? He just goes and they
10:12
Speaker 2: starts taking people's words, Like Luke is always gonna do
10:15
Speaker 2: the selfless thing, and I think Christopher is the opposite
10:20
Speaker 2: of that.
10:20
Speaker 3: Well, let's move on to the breakup. Do you think
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Speaker 3: that Christopher could have changed his jealous ways when it
10:26
Speaker 3: came to Luke and because he displayed this kind of
10:31
Speaker 3: immaturity and jealousy. First of all, do you think that
10:34
Speaker 3: jealousy was justified? Do you think her behavior was in
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Speaker 3: any way antagonistic or disrespectful toward Christopher.
10:43
Speaker 2: Ah, if it was, it certainly wasn't deliberate, right. I
10:47
Speaker 2: think Loralai was coming from a place of sincerity. And
10:50
Speaker 2: the thing about Christopher is, we're watching someone across the series,
10:53
Speaker 2: and when all the characters are like this, we're watching
10:56
Speaker 2: a growth arc, right, We're watching people grow into maturity.
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Speaker 2: And Christopher has come a long way since we first
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Speaker 2: met him, but in other ways he hasn't, And especially
11:07
Speaker 2: when his insecurity is he I think wants to be
11:13
Speaker 2: He wants to be desired and he wants to be loved,
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Speaker 2: and that's fine, that's a human need. But the issue
11:19
Speaker 2: is if somebody else is desired and loved instead of me,
11:23
Speaker 2: is that a deficiency on my part instead of just
11:26
Speaker 2: simply this is who the other person chooses, you know.
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Speaker 2: And in defense of Christopher, they are. They are married
11:34
Speaker 2: and so he's not entitled. But I do understand that
11:40
Speaker 2: that would be a painful thing to recognize and realize.
11:43
Speaker 2: But the mature, the mature way to handle it is
11:46
Speaker 2: always if it's if it's truly love, I want you
11:50
Speaker 2: to be with me, but more than that, I want
11:52
Speaker 2: you to be happy. And if you're not going to
11:55
Speaker 2: be happy with me. If you're going to be happier
11:56
Speaker 2: with Luke, if you're going to be happier on your own,
11:58
Speaker 2: then I want that for you. And what I see
12:01
Speaker 2: with Christopher a lot is is not necessarily actual love
12:05
Speaker 2: for Lorli. The attraction is there, attack is there, even
12:10
Speaker 2: affection is there like and it's all genuine and sincere.
12:14
Speaker 2: But in order for it to be love, it has
12:16
Speaker 2: to be what do you what do you need for
12:19
Speaker 2: your happiness? And I want that for you?
12:22
Speaker 1: And he just wasn't willing. Well. He eventually did come
12:27
Speaker 1: around to that.
12:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know he was. He was afraid of
12:32
Speaker 3: losing hers. He was really just hanging on for dear life.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, And I think that's a very compassionate
12:38
Speaker 2: way to look at him. And the fact is we
12:39
Speaker 2: we tend to be very judgmental of people and their
12:42
Speaker 2: behaviors and just in general. And if you look at
12:45
Speaker 2: any Gilmore Girls fan forums, I mean there's people of
12:49
Speaker 2: all sorts of opinions and get fired up because they
12:52
Speaker 2: care so much. But the fact is, most of our
12:56
Speaker 2: most harmful behaviors, most of the things that we do
12:59
Speaker 2: that cause the most pain, come from a place of
13:02
Speaker 2: our own pain come from we want to Everyone wants
13:06
Speaker 2: to feel safe, respected and loved, and our worst behaviors
13:10
Speaker 2: are either efforts to be safe, respected and loved or
13:13
Speaker 2: reactions to not feeling safe, respected and loved. And so
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Speaker 2: I don't fault Christopher. I just feel like it's a
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Speaker 2: shame he lacks the maturity because if he could show
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Speaker 2: up with maturity, with selflessness, with integrity, and with accountability,
13:31
Speaker 2: he could have ended up with Laura Lai. There are
13:32
Speaker 2: several times while watching the show, I'm like, oh, I mean,
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Speaker 2: I'm team Luke, but I can I wouldn't hate it
13:38
Speaker 2: if she ended up with Christopher. I thought that several
13:41
Speaker 2: times during the show. But every time he did something,
13:46
Speaker 2: you know, out of his own self interest first and
13:48
Speaker 2: foremost before his daughter and the mother of his daughter,
13:53
Speaker 2: I fell back on your side, brom.
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Speaker 3: So, all right, so this, you know, it all ended
14:02
Speaker 3: between Laura and Christopher, with her saying you're the man
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Speaker 3: I want to want. Why do you think it took
14:08
Speaker 3: her so long to get there? Let's go to the
14:21
Speaker 3: end of the relationship.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
14:22
Speaker 3: So with Laura I and Christopher mutually agreeing that they
14:26
Speaker 3: should go their separate ways, she says, you're the man
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Speaker 3: I want to want.
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Speaker 1: Why do you think it took her this long to
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Speaker 1: get there?
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Speaker 2: I think the Gilmours are a passionate family. I look
14:44
Speaker 2: at Richard and Emily and for all their pretenses of
14:47
Speaker 2: high society and doing things the proper way, you look
14:50
Speaker 2: at any time they feel offended or slided, and it's
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Speaker 2: all passion. And it's a similar thing with Rory and
14:58
Speaker 2: with Laura. I it's hard to follow your head when
15:05
Speaker 2: you're just guided by your heart. And that's the thing
15:08
Speaker 2: about these these passionate characters, is Lorelai why did it
15:13
Speaker 2: take her so long to say this to Christopher to
15:15
Speaker 2: get there? Because of Max Medina, because of Luke, because
15:21
Speaker 2: of the things that she wants out of her life,
15:23
Speaker 2: because the times that she's felt hurt and had to
15:26
Speaker 2: protect herself, you know, from from a million things where
15:31
Speaker 2: it's hard to know what you actually want when you're
15:35
Speaker 2: focused on the feeling of the moment.
15:37
Speaker 1: Boy, is that that is the truest statement?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, people really get lost in the moment, don't they,
15:44
Speaker 3: And they just forget about the macro they do.
15:48
Speaker 2: And that's and that's one thing I always liked about
15:50
Speaker 2: Luke you know, and I don't want to be a
15:53
Speaker 2: such a Luke stand here that I can't admit his faults.
15:55
Speaker 2: But is Luke from the opening episode, Luke knows exactly
15:59
Speaker 2: who is. He loves his diner, you know, he tolerates
16:03
Speaker 2: the people in the town and secretly adores them and
16:05
Speaker 2: would do anything for them, but he's not going to
16:07
Speaker 2: let them know that, you know. And he craves a
16:12
Speaker 2: simple life and deeply he craves he craves connection. But
16:19
Speaker 2: you know, when when Richard's trying to get Luke to
16:21
Speaker 2: franchise uh and and Emily's basically telling Luke you're not
16:25
Speaker 2: good enough, it, it shakes him in it for a moment.
16:28
Speaker 2: But what Luke always comes back to is I know
16:32
Speaker 2: what I want. And I think Luke is the opposite
16:34
Speaker 2: of Loraai because Luke sometimes is too much in his head.
16:37
Speaker 2: I think he's too much what's here's the here's the choice,
16:40
Speaker 2: here's what I'm doing, here's my life. And you know,
16:43
Speaker 2: especially in seasons five and you see kind of lore
16:46
Speaker 2: Lie opening up more of that that heart side of
16:51
Speaker 2: Luke that he's kept buried. And that's why I think
16:55
Speaker 2: they're a good balance for each other because Luke is
16:57
Speaker 2: a stabilizing influence for Law overall, and Lorelai helps Luke
17:02
Speaker 2: to come out and to feel and to be presentent
17:05
Speaker 2: and not be detached and distant.
17:07
Speaker 3: Right, right, let's do a sidebar, yeah, because because I
17:12
Speaker 3: want to talk about a little bit about and then
17:15
Speaker 3: we'll get back on the Luke Laurelei Christopher dynamic. But
17:19
Speaker 3: since since it's so prevalent in season seven, but tell
17:25
Speaker 3: me about your thoughts on because the thing I always
17:29
Speaker 3: wondered and what I found fascinating about Laurel's character is
17:34
Speaker 3: how quippy she is and how clever she is, and
17:36
Speaker 3: how fast and funny she is, and how the humor
17:38
Speaker 3: is constant.
17:41
Speaker 1: And people often.
17:42
Speaker 3: Do that because they are uncomfortable in a situation and
17:49
Speaker 3: they know intimacy or they can't be intimate in that
17:53
Speaker 3: situation with loved ones or friends or whatever.
17:55
Speaker 1: So it's just like joke after joke after show.
17:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a defense makes it's a protective mask.
18:01
Speaker 2: This is something in our in our mended light reactions
18:04
Speaker 2: to Gilmore Girls that I've said is simultaneously endearing to
18:08
Speaker 2: Lauraai about about Loralai to me and drives me crazy.
18:14
Speaker 2: Is anytime there is an apology to be made, she
18:19
Speaker 2: leads with a very awkward icebreaker and further alienates the
18:25
Speaker 2: people that she's hurt. He sees then and then I
18:30
Speaker 2: remember there's a different episode where Rory does the same thing,
18:33
Speaker 2: and I said, yep, they are family. But that's just
18:36
Speaker 2: but that's just good writing. You know that that type
18:38
Speaker 2: of consistency, and it absolutely is this this fear of vulnerability,
18:44
Speaker 2: and I think she comes by that honestly. You know,
18:46
Speaker 2: vulnerability was punished in her family growing up. Declaring what
18:51
Speaker 2: you want, declaring your hurt was met with defensiveness and
18:55
Speaker 2: blame shifting and and Laurie, Laura, I was never allowed
19:02
Speaker 2: to just be real. And so this is how she
19:06
Speaker 2: learned to cope. And you see this with her parents
19:10
Speaker 2: all the time. Loralai is always throwing jokes towards her
19:14
Speaker 2: parents that her parents don't think is funny, but Laura
19:19
Speaker 2: doesn't care. They're not for them, for her, They're gonna
19:22
Speaker 2: help her. They're gonna help her to feel more comfortable.
19:25
Speaker 2: Like she's having a little one woman show and she's
19:27
Speaker 2: both the performer and the audience, you.
19:29
Speaker 4: Know, exactly exactly, Yeah, but you also see, speaking of
19:35
Speaker 4: character growth, when she's truly comfortable with a person, she
19:40
Speaker 4: doesn't feel the need to do that.
19:41
Speaker 2: There are times with Rory that she doesn't lead with jokes.
19:44
Speaker 2: There are times with Luke that she doesn't lead with jokes.
19:46
Speaker 2: There are times you know in this episode that I
19:49
Speaker 2: that we just watched a season seven episode fifteen, she
19:52
Speaker 2: has a beautiful conversation with her mother where she tells
19:56
Speaker 2: her mother that she and Christopher broke up and I
19:58
Speaker 2: wrote it down. I thought it was so f she says,
20:02
Speaker 2: we split up. I don't know, and then Emily says,
20:04
Speaker 2: I don't know what to say, and Laurai says, really,
20:07
Speaker 2: that's great.
20:08
Speaker 1: And that's great. You don't ever have to say anything.
20:10
Speaker 1: We don't have to talk about it, right, it's good.
20:12
Speaker 2: We're we're all good. Yeah. But Emily for the first
20:15
Speaker 2: time shows just not maybe not for the first time,
20:18
Speaker 2: but we're seeing late in the in the series, Emily
20:21
Speaker 2: more and more just being real and valuing emotion over
20:27
Speaker 2: over prestige or status or stat or or the norms
20:31
Speaker 2: right that she's supposed to fulfill. And when Lauraai feels
20:34
Speaker 2: comfortable with her mom, she jokes less m and then
20:38
Speaker 2: when LAURAAI jokes, it's not to protect herself, it's just
20:42
Speaker 2: because she's still She's still her, she still likes to
20:44
Speaker 2: amuse herself, right, but it's no longer a mask.
20:48
Speaker 5: Uh.
20:48
Speaker 2: And that's the difference, right.
20:50
Speaker 3: Would you say that with Laura l I there's a
20:53
Speaker 3: reservoir of anger toward Emily and even toward Richard because
20:58
Speaker 3: of the experience of being pregnant sixteen pretty much being
21:02
Speaker 3: banished for not yeah, you know, telling the Gilmore line
21:09
Speaker 3: as it were.
21:12
Speaker 1: Do you do you find that to be the case?
21:15
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, and we see that all throughout the series,
21:18
Speaker 2: that there are steps towards healing. But I like to
21:22
Speaker 2: tell people we have the wrong idea about forgiveness. We
21:25
Speaker 2: think forgiveness is a I forgive you and then it's done.
21:28
Speaker 2: It's like it never happened. But forgiveness to me is
21:31
Speaker 2: like exercise. You have to you have to do it
21:33
Speaker 2: consistently to see the benefits, and this family takes It's hard.
21:38
Speaker 2: It's hard to forgive because there's so little accountability. But
21:41
Speaker 2: whenever it does happen and steps are made, the pain resurfaces. Right,
21:48
Speaker 2: Those wounds don't just go away. So it's not like
21:50
Speaker 2: you forgive somebody and then the wounds are gone. I
21:53
Speaker 2: forgive every time the pain comes up. I forgive every
21:56
Speaker 2: time the offense happens, because that's how I have to
22:00
Speaker 2: deal with it. And so what we see across the
22:03
Speaker 2: entire series is a family healing baby steps, just these
22:08
Speaker 2: tiny little micro steps at a time.
22:10
Speaker 3: So it's your defining forgiveness as something that is to
22:16
Speaker 3: make a commitment too, because it's going to that forgiveness.
22:19
Speaker 3: Is that same forgiveness of that same issue is going
22:22
Speaker 3: to rise up time and time and time again throughout
22:25
Speaker 3: your life with that individual.
22:28
Speaker 2: Yes, And I want to make a caveat because forgiveness,
22:32
Speaker 2: forgiveness and trust are not the same thing. I think
22:36
Speaker 2: trust has to be earned, and in order for us
22:39
Speaker 2: to have close relationships, there has to be trust, which
22:41
Speaker 2: is why several times throughout the series you see Loralai
22:45
Speaker 2: withdrawing from her parents because there's no trust there, there's
22:48
Speaker 2: no safety there. It doesn't mean she hates them, it
22:51
Speaker 2: doesn't mean she doesn't love them. It just means she
22:53
Speaker 2: doesn't feel safe with them. Forgiveness is I'm releasing bitterness
22:58
Speaker 2: and anger so that I don't carry it with me.
23:01
Speaker 1: Right, So it's for you.
23:02
Speaker 3: It's almost a selfish thing, or it's a healing thing,
23:05
Speaker 3: a personal healing thing.
23:07
Speaker 2: It's a self healing thing, and we extend compassion to
23:10
Speaker 2: the person who gives offense by understanding where they come from.
23:14
Speaker 2: If Loralai were in therapy with me throughout the series,
23:18
Speaker 2: I'd be like, look, we can't control what your parents do.
23:21
Speaker 2: We can try to influence, we can try and help
23:23
Speaker 2: them have light bulb moments to see things differently, but
23:26
Speaker 2: they've shown their incredibly rigid so we can't control what
23:29
Speaker 2: they do. We can control what you do, and every
23:32
Speaker 2: time they hurt you when you choose to let go,
23:34
Speaker 2: not to condone and not to say it's okay, but
23:37
Speaker 2: to say, Emily's gonna and Emily's gonna Emily and Richard's gonna. Richard, Right,
23:42
Speaker 2: They're gonna do what they do. So how close do
23:45
Speaker 2: I want to be with them depends on how much
23:48
Speaker 2: I trust them. Not a lot Friday night dinners, Right,
23:51
Speaker 2: that's what we got. We're not much in each other's
23:54
Speaker 2: lives other than that because there's no trust there. But
23:58
Speaker 2: Loralai could be happier unless bothered by what Emily and
24:02
Speaker 2: Richard do by practicing forgiveness. Again, it's not because they
24:07
Speaker 2: deserve it. It's because this is how I keep my
24:10
Speaker 2: side of the street clean. It's how I heal and
24:12
Speaker 2: when we have interactions, it's how I keep things from
24:15
Speaker 2: going bad on my end, right, I help de escalate
24:18
Speaker 2: the situation.
24:19
Speaker 3: Interesting, forgiveness is a powerful thing. It is, yeah, a powerful,
24:25
Speaker 3: powerful thing.
24:35
Speaker 1: What do you think about the way.
24:38
Speaker 3: Luke and Laurel I communicate because it seems like it
24:42
Speaker 3: seems like, you know, we discussed in a nauseum about
24:49
Speaker 3: the April coming and seeing him wanting to spend time
24:56
Speaker 3: with her away from Laurel I, and he kind of
24:58
Speaker 3: shut Laurel I e out of that whole experience.
25:00
Speaker 1: What do you think about that whole arc?
25:05
Speaker 2: So as candidly, there's two parts of me. There's a
25:11
Speaker 2: part of me that is frustrated because it feels like, well,
25:16
Speaker 2: we don't have a finish line for the series, so
25:18
Speaker 2: we're creating some new drama when after all these seasons,
25:21
Speaker 2: I like a lot of people just want to see
25:23
Speaker 2: Luke and Loralei together and more or less happy, right,
25:28
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I don't think it's untrue
25:31
Speaker 2: to Luke. Luke and Lorali both strike me as people
25:35
Speaker 2: who've experienced what I call micro traumas right. We often
25:40
Speaker 2: in the psychological world we think of trauma. We think
25:42
Speaker 2: of near death experiences, right or abuse or some heinous
25:46
Speaker 2: acts of violence, or near or almost dying. But the
25:49
Speaker 2: fact is, like the little things can pile up and
25:52
Speaker 2: have the same response in our in our brains right
25:57
Speaker 2: where where we feel triggered, and then we want to
25:59
Speaker 2: with wrong, and we take actions to protect ourselves, and
26:02
Speaker 2: we lie instinctively because we don't want to be hurt again,
26:05
Speaker 2: or because we don't want to hurt a person that
26:06
Speaker 2: we care about. Was I frustrated that Luke didn't tell
26:10
Speaker 2: Laura Liaie for such an extended period of time. Yes,
26:13
Speaker 2: I think everybody was. I'm you you probably were. But
26:17
Speaker 2: at the same time, I don't think it's it's untrue
26:20
Speaker 2: to somebody like Luke who has had his heart broken
26:24
Speaker 2: a bunch of times, someone like Luke who has lost
26:29
Speaker 2: his lost his father, has had a rocky relationship with
26:32
Speaker 2: his sister, who took Jess in and completely gave his
26:37
Speaker 2: heart and soul to Jess. I mean the fact that
26:40
Speaker 2: he was you know, a bit of a bit of
26:42
Speaker 2: a punk about it the whole time is just Luke,
26:44
Speaker 2: but but he was, he was one hundred percent there
26:47
Speaker 2: for Jess. And how many times this man feels like
26:52
Speaker 2: I've done something where I screwed it up, because that's
26:56
Speaker 2: that's part of Luke's selflessness is he also takes responsibility
27:00
Speaker 2: for the happiness of other people, right, And so Luke
27:04
Speaker 2: having a daughter that he didn't know about, he now
27:08
Speaker 2: feels like I missed all these years where I could
27:11
Speaker 2: have been a dad, where I could have been there
27:12
Speaker 2: for her. I imagine there's a little bit of looking
27:15
Speaker 2: in the mirror, feeling like a failure of why didn't
27:17
Speaker 2: the mother tell me and involve me in this? And
27:20
Speaker 2: then Laurai has made it very clear several times like
27:24
Speaker 2: and and I know Luke and Lauray have talked about
27:26
Speaker 2: having kids together. But then there are also times where
27:28
Speaker 2: she thought she was pregnant, right, and she was, and
27:30
Speaker 2: she didn't tell Luke about this, But there's just biased
27:32
Speaker 2: from Laura. I'm like, oh, gosh, I don't want a
27:34
Speaker 2: baby right now, like oh to bring another person into
27:37
Speaker 2: their lives, and I think Luke panics, And so this
27:41
Speaker 2: is all listen. I don't want to be too big
27:44
Speaker 2: of a I'm biased, but I think therapy helps with
27:46
Speaker 2: these types of things. And that leads up, Oh, that
27:51
Speaker 2: opens up another avenue of how do you get someone
27:53
Speaker 2: like Luke into therapy because it's it's not his jam
27:59
Speaker 2: and I and I have to say, as a therapist,
28:02
Speaker 2: my absolute favorite Luke moment is when he's listening to
28:05
Speaker 2: the tapes and the and the whole time he's just like,
28:09
Speaker 2: this is such bull crap, and he's just he thinks
28:11
Speaker 2: it's so ridiculous, and that he has a light bulb
28:14
Speaker 2: moment that you know, of who do you choose? Who
28:18
Speaker 2: do you really want to be with? Who do you
28:19
Speaker 2: want to see?
28:20
Speaker 1: Who's face do you see?
28:22
Speaker 2: Right?
28:22
Speaker 5: Right?
28:22
Speaker 2: Who's face are you thinking of?
28:25
Speaker 5: Right?
28:25
Speaker 1: That that whole right and.
28:28
Speaker 2: Two things happen for Luke. One is on the much
28:32
Speaker 2: bigger important level, is that he realizes Laura lies. The
28:35
Speaker 2: one but two for me as a therapist is realizing, oh,
28:39
Speaker 2: maybe this isn't such you know malarkey after all.
28:44
Speaker 3: So let's move on to you know, some of the
28:47
Speaker 3: parental relationships in the show. You know, Laurel I not
28:55
Speaker 3: having a stable male figure in her life, either growing
29:01
Speaker 3: up or in the early part of her adult life.
29:04
Speaker 1: Other than Luke, I would say.
29:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you think this affects Rory going forward
29:13
Speaker 3: and Rory making her choices life partner?
29:21
Speaker 2: I think Rory has had a wonderful model in her mother.
29:25
Speaker 2: You know, you can say in a lot of traditional
29:28
Speaker 2: mom things, Lorlai is not that she's a very different person,
29:34
Speaker 2: but in what truly matters, the support and the unconditional
29:38
Speaker 2: love and the sense of belonging you know that she
29:43
Speaker 2: gives Rory. I think Rory knows that she can do
29:47
Speaker 2: it on her own because she's seen her mom do it.
29:51
Speaker 2: And so my hope for Rory and I understand there's
29:54
Speaker 2: a Gilmore Girls A year in the life again. I
29:57
Speaker 2: spent the past couple of weeks catching up on three
30:00
Speaker 2: seasons of Gilmore Girls to get up to where we
30:02
Speaker 2: are today. So I don't know what happens after this.
30:05
Speaker 3: All right, we'll have you back on after you watch
30:08
Speaker 3: the Netflix episodes.
30:10
Speaker 2: Okay, I would love that. Yeah, I would love that,
30:12
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, But I do hope for Rory that, Okay,
30:17
Speaker 2: I can do it on my own. So if I
30:19
Speaker 2: have somebody, it's because I want this person not because
30:22
Speaker 2: I need a man, not because I need a partner.
30:25
Speaker 2: It's because I want to share this experience, my life
30:28
Speaker 2: and maybe create starting a family or whatever with this
30:31
Speaker 2: specific person. And I think Rory has been a lot
30:35
Speaker 2: like Laura LII, and that Laura Liai knows that she
30:38
Speaker 2: can stand on her own, but she still really wants somebody,
30:42
Speaker 2: and sometimes she wants it so painfully that she makes
30:48
Speaker 2: not great choices. That's Laurali. That's also Rory right again,
30:53
Speaker 2: very passionate people, but you see them across the series
30:56
Speaker 2: grow more into Okay, I'm going to bring my my
30:59
Speaker 2: judgment up to my passion right that I'm going to
31:03
Speaker 2: I'm going to lead with my head and my heart
31:05
Speaker 2: when it comes to when it comes to relationships. And
31:08
Speaker 2: so that's my assessment of Rory. So we'll see what
31:11
Speaker 2: happens if I'm right or not.
31:13
Speaker 1: See what happens. What do you think of Season seven?
31:16
Speaker 2: So far? So good?
31:17
Speaker 1: There's some good episodes.
31:18
Speaker 3: There's some actually very very good episodes in season seven
31:21
Speaker 3: so far.
31:22
Speaker 2: I have gotten into the fan debate, and I know
31:25
Speaker 2: there's something for a lot of TV shows and a
31:28
Speaker 2: lot of my favorite TV shows there's like a five
31:30
Speaker 2: season curse. You have a really solid five seasons and
31:33
Speaker 2: then after that it's hit or miss. I think The Office,
31:37
Speaker 2: twenty four, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, these all shows that
31:39
Speaker 2: I like that that happens with. So here's my take
31:43
Speaker 2: on season seven. The writing isn't as sharp and it's
31:46
Speaker 2: not as consistent, but there are moments that make up
31:51
Speaker 2: for it.
31:51
Speaker 3: It's very well said, that's very well set. There's some
31:54
Speaker 3: big moments, very well set.
31:55
Speaker 2: This moment between Lorli and Emily in this episode we
31:59
Speaker 2: just watched, where Laurla is expecting her mom's judgment and
32:03
Speaker 2: disdain and just gets acceptance is beautiful, is wonderful. Frankly,
32:10
Speaker 2: I feel I don't know if you followed uh The
32:12
Speaker 2: Office all the way to the end, but their their
32:14
Speaker 2: final season reminds me a lot of Season seven of
32:16
Speaker 2: Gilmore Girls, in that, Okay, we're no longer in the prime,
32:21
Speaker 2: but we're substitute. We're trading some of the wit and
32:24
Speaker 2: some of the consistency for a few standout moments that
32:29
Speaker 2: everyone really wants and needs. You know, not not to
32:33
Speaker 2: get off the Gilmore Girls too much, but like if
32:35
Speaker 2: you go into the Office, Jim and Pam and their
32:37
Speaker 2: marriage is on the rocks and they reconcile, or or
32:40
Speaker 2: Jim and Dwight becoming friends instead of being enemies. You know.
32:43
Speaker 2: There there there are emotional bits of closure that are worthwhile.
32:48
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm finding with season seven.
32:51
Speaker 3: Interesting Jonathan, It's been a delight. There's so much more
32:57
Speaker 3: to unpack. We're gonna let's let's have you back on
33:00
Speaker 3: very interesting insights. Yeah, watch the episodes and we'll.
33:05
Speaker 1: Chat about it. Okay, I'll come back.
33:08
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, Thank you very much. I would love
33:09
Speaker 2: to be here. And for your listeners, if you want
33:11
Speaker 2: to see me break down Gilmore Girls, it's on mended
33:14
Speaker 2: Light YouTube channel and just go in there and search
33:17
Speaker 2: Gilmore Girls and you can you can watch just how
33:20
Speaker 2: much I gush over Luke as a straight middle aged man.
33:24
Speaker 2: It's kind of embarrassing. But here we are so.
33:29
Speaker 3: Appreciate your time and your insights, and uh, you know,
33:33
Speaker 3: hopefully we'll see you soon.
33:34
Speaker 2: Thank you.
33:34
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure, all right, Jonathan. Great meeting and
33:37
Speaker 1: great talking to you. Be well.
33:39
Speaker 5: Thank you.
34:08
Speaker 3: Hey everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at
34:11
Speaker 3: I Am all In podcast and email us at Gilmore
34:15
Speaker 3: at iHeartRadio dot com