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How to Show Up for Someone Grieving | Carol Richardson & Terri Gortnar · Behind The Village Podcast

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You're listening to the Behind the Village podcast,
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where we invite you to join us on a journey to
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understand how to live a life worth living. Our
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guests today are Carol and Terry, the co -founders
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of Compass Rose Floral Design. From corporate
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careers to business partners and everything in
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between, these women show up through some of
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life's hardest moments. We talk about the milestones
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that led them here, including the loss of Terry's
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daughter, Claire. and how that experience reshaped
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the way they think about grief, memory, and meaning.
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So, gosh, over a decade ago, I applied for a
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job and I was going to be working for Carol.
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And in my interview, I told her if she were to
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hire me, she would never regret it. And now...
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15 plus years later, here we are starting our
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own business together. We're now actually neighbors
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as well. So we always wanted to work together.
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So when we were thinking about as we both hit
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different transitions in life and milestones,
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we decided that what we wanted to do was work
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together and form this partnership around Compass
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Rose. And Compass Rose is really... you know,
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born out of, you know, I have a deep love for
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flowers. I always have since I was a child. And
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that stayed with me and floral design and design
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of all types, actually. The symbolism behind
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Compass Rose as a brand even is my husband and
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I were sailors and the Compass Rose is the navigation
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compass. But for us, for Terry and I, it also
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means navigating life's journey together. And
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we're going through this thing called life. together
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side by side so the rose is also important because
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I had a love of roses from my grandfather's garden
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in Scotland when I was a little girl so it's
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really how we brought Compass Rose together as
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a brand and the core meaning behind it is and
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purpose is that we're really looking to Tell
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a story through florals and capture those moments
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in life and memories through floral design. Carol
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and I have also always have this connection where
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we just work so easily together. Like we're opposite
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in so many ways, but the same in others. We're
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always on the same page on so many things. And
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so we just stayed. friends because we like doing
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the same things we were always out on the boat
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together we were you know we enjoyed cooking
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for each other during covid we had like friday
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nights where our family meals we were bubbles
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together and we still to this day six years later
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we have friday night dinners together um i wouldn't
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and i think covid was was one of the big reasons.
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Also with my kids' diagnosis, we decided that
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we didn't need to be in the city. And when I
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came up to visit Carol in this neighborhood,
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I just knew I wanted to be here. And it's been
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the best thing because it's also like this support
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system across the road. Carol was at my wedding.
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She was at my bridal shower. She was, you know,
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held by babies. They were in her boat at six
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months old. Like we've just always done everything
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together, which is why I think like having, you
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know, Compass Roses, we're on this journey together.
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They were one of the first people we told when
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the kids got diagnosed. So they've, her and her
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husband and, you know, with my husband, we've
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just had this really tight. friendship that goes
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like past friendship it's more of like a family
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calling it back a little bit you mentioned uh
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your diagnosis of your children terry and um
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in our previous episode when we chatted about
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that you mentioned that there had to be a shift
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so i was curious how that played its role um
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with the creation of compass rose and how the
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two of you what those discussions were in in
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creating the business that you have now well
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i My dream was to never be like a stay -at -home
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mom. I always had expected to have a big career.
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And that was why I was important about who I
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married, would also be supportive of that. And
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so, you know, when we had our children, I ended
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up staying home for... I think it was 18 months
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after my second one. And that's when my daughter
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had her first seizure. So we found out right
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before she was four and right before my son was
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18 months that they had this terminal disease
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called CLN2 Batten's disease. It's super rare.
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Our kids are like one of a few siblings in the
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world. I think there's 300 in the world. And
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so. And all of a sudden, you realize that nothing
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matters. Money doesn't matter. Making people
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rich doesn't matter. Like, all it is is that
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it's about experiences. And I had to, like, relearn
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my entire job. I wasn't a mom anymore. Now, all
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of a sudden, I had to be an advocate and I had
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to, you know, create a foundation. You know,
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with the help of my husband, we had to get on
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the media. We had to fight with Health Canada
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to bring a very expensive treatment to Canada.
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But you just do what you have to do. And then
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when you get through that. then you have to deal
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with this anticipatory grief. And that's something
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that we don't talk about a lot. And I don't think
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that we prepare ourselves for. And a lot of us
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will experience this, especially as our parents
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get like Parkinson's, dementia. People are getting
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ALS earlier and earlier. And you're watching
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the person you love slowly. lose their abilities
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in front of you and so you're not just grieving
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their passing I had to grieve when they stopped
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talking when they stopped walking you know all
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these little milestones and so those those are
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really tough things to have to grieve over and
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over and um I wasn't I had never knew anything
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like that before. None of this runs in my family.
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Like, you know, I didn't know anyone who had
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even a medically fragile child. And so what I
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did know was that I wasn't going to focus on
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that. I was going to focus on I only have these
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children for a little while and I'm going to
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be the best mom I can be and I'm going to make
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their life comfortable and whatever that looks
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like, that's what looks like. And that's when
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Carol, you know, was that support to me. And,
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you know, we made every moment we could special.
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And that included, you know, all the thoughtfulness
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of flowers and colors and smells. things that
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they could enjoy while they were here. I think
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that also being so close to Terry and her family
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brought that realization to us, like me in particular,
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because I'm a workaholic. I love work. I love
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business. I just do. But it also helped me realize,
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you know, where you prioritize, where you spend
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your time and how you create those moments. And
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it's, you know, showing up living life is what
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we really remember, right? And we see that through
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the remembrance of the people that we're celebrating
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as we get to know them and the loved ones we've
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lost. But you realize that, you know. When they're
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showing the slideshows and telling those stories
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about those individuals and every life has a
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unique story, you see, I see what's really important
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to them and what this, we call it this thing
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called life, what this thing called life is all
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about. And if we can find the present again,
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because we've lost so much of that through the
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digital age. But be present in the moment and
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be selective where we spend our time. But really
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understand who people are and what's important
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to them. And we do talk a lot about death and
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dying because it is a taboo topic. But we're
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confronted with it. But through that, you get
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to learn more about people, what's important
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to them. We learn things. When somebody passes,
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even though we might know them very closely,
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we learn new things about them because they have
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different personas. They have different aspects
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of their lives we're not intimately involved
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in. And flowers actually open up some of those
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conversations. Because if we capture who that
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person is and that personality and what's important
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to them through the story of storytelling through
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flowers, when people don't have the words. They
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don't know what to say in those moments. The
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flowers can do some of the talking and we end
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up learning something new about somebody as well
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that we can cherish. So it's really, you know,
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the impetus behind what we're doing and what
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we want to bring to families. What were initial
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conversations like when you started broaching
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this topic with each other? to move into a business
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partnership together? Because I think at this
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point you have been together for so long. You
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know, what was that point like? We just couldn't
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shake each other. We started to do things for
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our friends and our family. That's really how
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it started to be. Carol wasn't quite ready to
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leave corporate and I still like wasn't 100 %
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sure like I hadn't worked in so long would I
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be able to manage you know putting so much time
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into something when I do have a lot on my plate
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so it's something we wanted to gradually go into
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before we fully committed because if we knew
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we committed that we were going to be 100 % and
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we were going to be successful so it was a little
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bit of like you know testing the market doing
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things for our friends building that confidence
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and getting feedback and then The feelings that
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we would get doing those things, even though
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they're hard, made it worth something. And like
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it healed my heart almost to be that person that
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I needed at that time. And so that's when I knew
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we were in the right place. Yeah. And, you know,
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my corporate career. You know, over 15 years
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ago, when we first met, as my career evolved,
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every place I went, every role I was in, I wanted
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to hire Terry. I'm like, where's Terry? We've
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got the right person, but she's just not available
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right now. But we've got the right person. And
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so as Compass Rose started to come really into
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more of a reality, I wasn't ready to leave corporate.
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And as we did more and we got the feedback and
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what it meant to us and we put together our business
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model and was even on the boat, we came up with
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our logo. And so we incorporated to secure the
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name actually ahead of when we were ready. And
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then based on life's milestones, there was a
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culmination that made it the right time. My husband
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actually said to me at one point, like, I actually
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found an email in a floral design book from 2010.
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And I was the VP of a global of operations for
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a global company at the time. And I sent an email
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to my husband asking if he could buy me these
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three floral design books. And I said, don't
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worry, I won't quit my day job. And I found that
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email. I had printed it out because I use it
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as a bookmark in one of those design books. So
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I was like, oh, my gosh, look at this. And so
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it's something I've always wanted to do. But
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then, you know, that culmination of milestones,
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I got to a point to where this I had a very long
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off ramp for my corporate career and was really
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clinging with my nails. And my husband said,
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you know. You're going to have to pick. I don't
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care which one you do. You can do corporate or
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you can do florals, but you can only do one.
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And without a hesitation, I said, I pick florals.
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And and again, Terry's timing as such to the
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loss of Claire and that major milestone made
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it the right time for us to be able to formally
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launch Compass Rose. For those that don't. no
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compass rose specifically yet um but what is
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it that you guys do like we've talked about flowers
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and we talked about how you know all these things
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but what is it if you were to describe it to
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somebody that doesn't know uh compass rose yet
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you know how would you describe it well we don't
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just sell flowers we sell experiences we we want
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people to When they have an event, we approach
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it with how do you want to feel? How do you want
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to feel when you walk into that room? So that
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we can understand not so much their Pinterest
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board, but the memories that they want to bring
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home. And, you know, whether they want like...
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if sustainability is important to them if you
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know the the structures are important to them
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colors things like that but at the end of the
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day people aren't going to remember like this
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arrangement they're going to remember the feeling
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that it gave the wow the impact the color if
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if they're understated or or not like that's
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what they're going to remember and we're We're
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going to deliver on the vision. We're not going
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to throw you a catalog and pick A, B, and C.
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We want to know you. What's important to you?
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It's about personalization, right? And the experience
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and creating and capturing memories. And, you
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know, that's what differentiates us. And that's
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what we want to be doing. We don't create. floral
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recipes. We don't have a catalog with a number
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of catalog numbers, which is often what you'll
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find in a funeral home environment when you're
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asked to select the flowers. And you're doing
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that in a moment of great decision making. There's
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a lot of decisions that happen and need to happen
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in a funeral environment in a very short period
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of time. We're really approaching it through
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creating experiences and walking away with a
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feeling and a memory. And that's just not for
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funerals, it's for weddings too, right? And for
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corporate events, for any of those things, it's
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all about how do you want to feel? With funeral
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homes, many people don't know is they most often
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will have an arrangement with a florist. And
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that's why you get a catalog and you select from
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a catalog and they order by a catalog number.
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But what we don't know is there's options. You
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can request to bring in your own floral designer.
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You can do that. Terry did that. My mother did
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that. So you have that option, but most people
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don't realize that that option is even available.
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I think that's why I think it's so important
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to bring awareness around this because it's also
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something I, even though I knew that my children
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are going to pass, I wasn't thinking of the logistics
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of the funeral. And I wish I had been. And I'm
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so thankful that I had Carol, but I had not thought
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of a funeral home. I walked into one that had
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been recommended to me. I hated everything about
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it. They changed as much as they could to make
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it as kid friendly as it could be. But it was
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still, you know, but I didn't have time to think
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about that at that point. And that's why I why
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it's so important to me to have these discussions
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prior to that so that you're not thinking in
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in this. brain fog of grief. And then I would
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have missed out on, and I know I would have regretted
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having these generic things that don't mean anything
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to her. That would have, I would have really
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regretted that. And I'm so thankful that I, that
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I didn't have to. Well, even representing a child,
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right? Like if you look at what's available in
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the market when it comes to floral designs, These
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are typically designs that are more representative
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of someone that's lived a long life, not a child.
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And going through that experience, you know,
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we wanted to recognize Claire and who she was.
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And the important things to her and her favorite
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colors and the butterflies and her ribbons. But
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we were also thinking about her friends. And
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her friends are children. And they were there.
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And even the height of the flowers, even what
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they meant. And her brother, who loves flowers.
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He can't come to my house without going home
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with a flower. Even at Claire's funeral service,
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Joseph was carrying around a red rose that he
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had selected from one of the arrangements. He
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saw me. He gave it to me. He gave me his red
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rose. And, you know, and this little boy that
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can't see. So he smells. He has the texture.
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So it really, you know, made us realize, and
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we've written an article on this, on pediatric
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females and florals, is how to approach this
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for a young person. And we also did the florals
20:20
for a young man, a 19 -year -old. And, you know,
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we were able to bring in some of the things that
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were really important to him. His favorite color
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was blue. And we believe one of his last words.
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And, you know, so the florals were blue. There
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was a lot of blue. He had his favorite cars.
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And the florals represented the colors of his
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favorite cars. He lived in Muskokas and he loved
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his natural world and the water and the granite
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and the vase. Like when you think about the vessel,
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the vessel means something. And it was reflective
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of water and granite. And he was known as the
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warrior and it had metal. And so the flowers
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represented some of those attributes of him.
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So we worked really hard and we even do designs
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that... are carry forward so we have floral designs
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that help you know bring those stories into the
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environment but also can be gifted to friends
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and family and they're easily transported so
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we really believe in that carry forward aspect
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as well so you know these are the types of things
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that are deeply meaningful to us because I feel
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like I know him and I carry him now with me.
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Yeah. Yeah. But that's what I find really interesting
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is that the arrangements that you do are like
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just the way that you're describing. Everything
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feels thought out, like everything feels very
21:53
intentional. And that is something that is like,
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again, you don't you don't think about. Right.
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Because, again, you're you you pick out of a
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catalog usually and then that's it. But everything
22:05
has. thought behind it as to why this is a thing
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and that i find that really interesting yeah
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we well we really believe in thoughtfulness um
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and everything we do we we we do believe in in
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in thoughtfulness and um but we also believe
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in comfort and we want to take all of that off
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your plate we know you're going through a difficult
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time And I don't care if you're getting married
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or you're having a funeral. It's a difficult
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time. True. It is a lot to manage. So it's like,
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let us make these beautiful things for you by
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capturing your story, by knowing you, then we
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will deliver so that you don't have to think
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about all of that. Yeah, we take it from there.
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We take it from there. Yeah. Because it can be
23:03
overwhelming with the amount of options and choices
23:06
and all of that. But by us just having this conversation
23:10
and learning about your life, what you like,
23:14
what's important to you, then we can build around
23:19
that. And all you have to do is walk in and be
23:26
wowed by. the experience. Actually, what a lot
23:30
of people don't know is there's a lot of history
23:32
behind flowers. So flowers have actually been
23:35
used in, you know, funeral settings since the
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prehistoric times. And there's evidence. There's
23:42
evidence of that. What people don't necessarily
23:45
realize is some things become entrenched, but
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the flowers at the time started, like there were
23:52
lilies, which have a really strong perfume. All
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right. So really heavily scented flowers and
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those flowers we often still use today in these
24:02
traditional arrangements. And they're very heavily
24:05
scented. Like if you go into a funeral home,
24:07
you could you smell a smell. And it's usually
24:09
because those are the types of flowers that are
24:11
being used. But those flowers were selected for
24:15
a reason. And the reason is there was a body
24:20
that was decomposing because. We had not got
24:24
to embalmment. We had not got to cremations.
24:26
We didn't have these technologies. So it's even
24:30
where like a posy of flowers is often called
24:35
a nosegay. So in Victorian times, like again,
24:39
they didn't have a lot of, you know. perfumes
24:42
and bathing. And the nosegay is a little posy
24:45
of flowers that people would carry around to
24:47
put up to their nose to offset the scent of the
24:50
bad body odor around them. And that's where those
24:54
come from. So in a funeral setting, we have these
24:58
traditional big sprays. We have these traditional
25:00
types of flowers. Some of them have religious
25:03
contacts, and that means a lot. But they were
25:08
there. to actually offset the scent of something
25:11
that wasn't so pleasant. And we don't have that
25:14
today. So we actually have, again, a broader
25:17
opportunity to make different selections. And
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people just don't realize that that's the evolution,
25:27
that's the historical context. So we have this
25:31
predetermined notion of what it means to go to
25:34
a funeral home. And even working more with the
25:39
funeral directors and they're sharing their stories
25:42
with us. And, you know, they're like, obviously,
25:45
people don't want to be there. Right. You do
25:47
not want to go for all kinds of reasons. But
25:50
this predetermined notion of what it's going
25:53
to mean and what it's going to look like and
25:54
what it has to look like is what we're thinking.
25:57
But it does not need to be that way at all. There's
26:00
a lot of other choices and you can set that tone,
26:04
you can set that mood. You can decide if you
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want to have more joyful flowers. You can decide
26:10
if you don't want those scents, if you want something
26:13
else. There's more options that are available,
26:18
but that's actually the historical context behind
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it all. My earliest floral memories are rooted
26:24
in my grandfather's rose garden. So we would
26:26
go to Scotland to visit as we were children.
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And he had a beautiful rose garden that, you
26:33
know, I always remembered and became a place
26:38
of connection with my grandfather where we spent
26:40
some time. They made an impact on me. The colors,
26:46
the scents, the beauty, all that meant something.
26:50
And then, you know, we're really shaped by our
26:54
families and these moments that we have. And
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I had this little pic photograph. I have my grandfather
26:59
standing in his rose garden and I've carried
27:02
it with me ever since I was a young girl. And
27:04
anybody that comes to visit our studio, I show
27:06
it to them. And she said, you have to capture
27:09
that. And then I realized, too, when I left my
27:11
corporate career, people were surprised. Like
27:13
you go from this corporate career to floral design.
27:16
How does that happen? Right. And I was like,
27:20
well, actually, if you really know me. you'll
27:22
see that there's a very consistent thread here
27:25
since I was a young girl. And if you follow that
27:28
thread, you'll realize this isn't such a surprise.
27:34
I, on the other hand, never thought I would be
27:38
a floral designer or own a floral company ever.
27:44
But I did know when my children got diagnosed
27:48
that I wanted to do something meaningful. And
27:52
being an advocate for in the rare disease space,
27:56
especially in pediatrics, it's hard. I get really,
28:01
really, really attached to those families. And
28:04
you need your village when you're in this rare
28:09
disease space because not many people understand
28:12
what you're going through. What's hard about
28:15
your village is that you're all going to lose
28:18
your children. So you're not only grieving yours,
28:22
you're so connected to these families that every
28:25
time they lose theirs, you feel like you've lost
28:27
another part of you. And that's another part
28:32
of, you know, being in that space that people
28:35
don't talk about. either. But when you do get
28:39
a diagnosis of any kind, you do have to find
28:42
your village so you can understand how to navigate
28:44
that. But at the same time, you've got to learn
28:46
how to protect your heart. And so I was a little
28:52
worried when we started, okay, are we going to
28:55
do funerals, especially for pediatrics? But of
28:59
course, it brings up a wave of feelings because
29:02
it's You know, it hasn't been that long for me.
29:04
But at the same time, I'm just so glad to be
29:08
a person who understands what they're feeling
29:12
so that they don't feel alone. And the gratitude
29:17
I get back from those families make it so worth
29:23
it. So worth any challenge it could be at the
29:27
moment. I just want to, you know. be that comfort.
29:33
And I find that it's easier for me to connect
29:37
with families because I have gone through it.
29:40
It's easier for them to open up to me because
29:42
they understand that I've been through it. And
29:45
so those conversations do seem to be a lot easier
29:49
to have. Well, and you care. Yes, they care.
29:54
And they know you do. There's a connection there
29:58
where They don't even have to share words because
30:01
they just know. And they're able to create that
30:06
trusted relationship to open up to have those
30:10
conversations and even provide a level of mutual
30:13
support. Yeah, it's so important for me for families
30:19
to not shut down when they get any of those diagnosis.
30:25
To really stay in the moment, to not live in
30:29
that guilt and that anticipatory grief. And,
30:33
you know, to make any moments special so that
30:38
you can look back and have no regrets. I have
30:42
no regrets with my daughter, so I know that it's
30:44
possible. And I want to remind people that they
30:51
can live the same way. That's a point that reminds
30:56
me, there's something that I wanted to ask. How
30:59
do you guys deal with that being in grief, I
31:04
guess, with other people having to go through
31:07
that? And do you guys separate that or do you
31:12
guys carry that with you? We're able to sit in
31:16
the dark with them. we're able to sit beside
31:21
them in that grief because there are no words
31:25
but you just don't want to feel alone and so
31:29
of course we're going to remember those people
31:31
and they mean something to us and every single
31:34
arrangement we've done because it's so personal
31:36
is going to be carried on our hearts we don't
31:39
carry their grief but we are beside them through
31:44
their grief journey Is that hard, like to be
31:49
able to sit or having to sit in that grief consistently?
31:54
I don't I don't think so, because I find I find
32:00
comfort in being able to give back because I
32:03
know what it feels like to be alone in those
32:05
moments. And I don't expect anything back from
32:08
from them. I just want them to know that they're
32:10
not alone. And so it's not uncomfortable for
32:13
me to be in that space. And the more that we're
32:16
around it, then the more comfortable you become
32:19
because this is just a natural part of life.
32:23
You never become immune to grief. Right. And
32:27
nor should we. But we're also there to help them.
32:37
And we do laugh and we do cry. We feel their
32:42
pain. We feel their loss. But the more we share
32:47
stories and they're able to talk about the stories
32:49
and they're able to talk about these things,
32:51
that helps them as they go through that grieving
32:55
process. And, you know, our goal is to be able
32:59
to bring a small amount of joy through this really
33:03
difficult, difficult time. And if we can do that.
33:09
then we've helped them. Going back to the sitting
33:12
in the grief and experiencing that with others,
33:15
I was wondering between both of your experiences,
33:18
just personally and through your business, is
33:22
there a way that's best to approach and speak
33:25
to people that are moving through that space?
33:27
It's so important to say the person's name who
33:32
passed. Everyone is like, so they don't bring
33:36
up their name. You don't want them to cry, but
33:38
it's, it's so important to recognize who's passed.
33:43
Like, it's okay to say my daughter's name around
33:46
me, Claire, like she was my daughter. She's not
33:48
here anymore, but she was here, you know, for
33:52
nine years and she did a lot in those, those
33:55
nine years. I think a lot of people aren't sure
33:59
what to do, but one thing that. I think is don't
34:05
ask that generic question or leave that statement.
34:09
Anything you need, let me know. I'll drop food
34:15
off on Monday night. Okay, just letting you know
34:18
I'll have a hot meal for you. I'm going to come
34:21
by and just do your laundry. Like, you know what,
34:24
I'm going to vacuum for you so you can have a
34:26
nap. Do a click and collect. I'll grab your groceries.
34:32
just say that you're going to do something don't
34:35
put it on that person because they're like I
34:38
don't know what you're comfortable with doing
34:39
but you know what you're comfortable with doing
34:42
right and I think food is the biggest thing like
34:47
one thing I did not want to touch I couldn't
34:49
be in the kitchen for about I don't know, a month
34:51
after Claire passed. And my family still needed
34:54
to be fed, but people showed up with food. And
34:57
that was just a huge, huge help for me, even
35:00
like frozen meals, things we could heat up. And
35:03
it's just when people are in grief, when people
35:07
are struggling with diagnosis, when your life
35:11
is changing in all times, I think what the most
35:13
important thing to do is feed people. No, I think
35:17
that's like really easy and just, you know, cutting
35:21
their grass, weeding their garden. It's the simplest
35:24
things is showing up without being asked. That
35:29
means the world. Do you have any parting thoughts?
35:35
You know, for Compass Rose to really feel that
35:40
we've been successful, we don't really want people
35:43
to remember an arrangement. As much as we want
35:47
to have them remember a conversation that they
35:51
sparked, a memory that they shared through them,
35:55
and the feelings that they had when they celebrated
35:58
life. And for those feelings to carry forward
36:02
with them. So when they do see that favorite
36:04
flower, that favorite color, they're in that
36:07
type of environment, that's what they think about.
36:09
And, you know, Claire lives with us. Every day.
36:16
I have a clear garden. So for her celebration
36:19
of life, we had all the kids paint little garden
36:24
stones, one for us and one for them. And then
36:28
we had these giant stepping stones that were
36:31
painted purple and they had a butterfly on them.
36:35
And so I got everyone to put their thumbprints
36:38
on them so that I could put them through my garden.
36:42
I haven't quite got there yet, but Carol. So
36:47
Claire loved butterflies. Purple was one of her
36:49
favorite colors. And those stepping stones were
36:53
created and Terry gave me some. So I put them
36:57
in my garden, except I don't step on them. I
37:00
step, I step over them. And, and because you
37:07
love butterflies. All the flowers I've planted
37:10
in and around there are in the colors and attract
37:15
the butterflies and the bees and the things that
37:17
she loves. So that part of my garden is. And
37:21
actually, I have to admit, I never thought I
37:22
had purple stepping stones in my garden. But
37:26
boy, do I love them. Do I ever love them. And
37:30
I look at them every day. That conversation is
37:36
going to stay with me for a while. What sticks
37:39
with me is the idea of seeing grief as something
37:42
we shouldn't rush past, but as something to sit
37:44
inside of together instead. The thoughtful ideas
37:48
of how to show up for people who are going through
37:51
deep grief, how to interact with them, those
37:53
are tips that I've used already and will continue
37:55
to use throughout my life. What Terry and Carol
37:59
have built with Compass Rose isn't just about
38:01
flowers. It's about honoring people fully, in
38:04
their joy and in their grief. I'm so grateful
38:07
they shared their story with us. Thank you for
38:12
listening to the entire episode. All the links
38:14
and info you heard in this conversation will
38:16
be featured in the show notes on our website.
38:18
If you'd like to know more about anything we
38:20
mentioned in this episode, make sure to check
38:21
villagermagazine .ca. If you enjoyed this episode,
38:26
please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
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38:39
I'll see you next time.