Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP19 - Old Ways In Modern Days (feat. Matt from the Locking Horns Podcast)

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Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP19 - Old Ways In Modern Days (feat. Matt from the Locking Horns Podcast) · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:01
  Hello everyone and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:04
  podcast, where we discuss all sorts of things Germanic
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  Heathenry related. My name is Jesse and I am your
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  All right everybody Hale and welcome back to you all from all
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  across Midgard all over the world.
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  Thank you so much for joining me again this week and apologies in
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  advance for this little like in and out focus deal that I got
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  going on with this camera. Still trying to get the the the
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  sweet spot for the the autofocus thing going, but so apologies
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  for those of you watching that are nitpicky like me that are
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  bothered by the continuous autofocus Anyway, that's neither
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  But trust me they're there. So thank you to my patrons that
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  helped make this content possible.
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  Appreciate all your support. All the other ways you can
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  support me are going to be down in the description of the video.
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  For those of you watching or the podcast show notes for those of
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  you listening it's that link tree link that's down there at
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  the very top of of my stuff. So check it all out, follow me
• 2:46
  on all the socials. And Speaking of following and
• 2:50
  supporting we've got a guest coming on today who is also
• 2:53
  another podcaster in the heathen space out here.
• 2:56
  We're going to be joining here just a moment with Matt from the
• 3:00
  Locking Horns podcast. In addition to being the kind of
• 3:05
  the, the the the main person behind that podcast he is also
• 3:10
  affiliated with the Vikings of the Valley based out of Roanoke
• 3:13
  VA. So hope to hear more about them
• 3:17
  and and him and how he kind of found them and and his whole
• 3:20
  story and we're going to be talking about a bunch of things.
• 3:23
  You know the the episode title for this week was you know
• 3:29
  almost wish I had a an AI bot or something to help me write these
• 3:33
  titles. But old ways and modern days I
• 3:36
  felt was was fair and well enough because we've got a few
• 3:39
  things that we're going to be jumping into today.
• 3:42
  You know Matt shares a very you know interesting opinion or or
• 3:47
  focused opinion rather on the idea of Frith.
• 3:50
  You know, I've talked a lot about it throughout, you know,
• 3:54
  my various content of episodes, just not just the podcast but
• 3:57
  just in general the concept of Frith and what it means and you
• 4:01
  know, having it online versus not.
• 4:03
  So we're going to hear some thoughts about that from him.
• 4:06
  We're also going to be going into, you know, something like
• 4:08
  the the practicality applications of what we hear
• 4:13
  about in the Hoffa Mall and just our our general kind of take on
• 4:20
  the essence of the gods, You know, how they interact with us,
• 4:24
  how they speak to us, how we interact with them, et cetera,
• 4:26
  et cetera. So all of that and more is going
• 4:30
  to be on this week's episode of the podcast.
• 4:32
  If you do like it, please be sure to upload it, engage in any
• 4:36
  sort of way wherever you're listening or catching this and
• 4:39
  show your support to not just myself on my platforms, but to
• 4:44
  Matt and the Locking Horns podcast and and what he does on
• 4:47
  there. So without further ado, let's go
• 4:49
  ahead and bring Matt on and get him to explain more about what
• 4:53
  he does and where he's from and and all that fun stuff.
• 4:56
  So here we go. Hello, Matt.
• 5:00
  Good evening. How are we?
• 5:02
  Good. We are, we are, we are rocking
• 5:03
  right along here. I feel ready to get into some to
• 5:07
  some fun topics. Yeah man.
• 5:09
  Thank you for for being my guest this week.
• 5:13
  So you have your podcast called Locking Horns, right?
• 5:18
  Yes. Feels like, feels like a like,
• 5:21
  feels like what the deer do, even though they're antlers and
• 5:24
  they're not. Horns.
• 5:25
  That's that's an individual facet of the dice.
• 5:29
  Yeah, definitely. So locking horns was a concept
• 5:33
  that that I presented to a couple of my brothers who had
• 5:37
  their individual projects in the works.
• 5:40
  And you know, they pretty much said, hey, let's just try this,
• 5:44
  you know, I'll, I'll get a little bit of gear.
• 5:48
  We'll we'll set it up in my basement, you know, and if
• 5:51
  nothing else, just record the stuff that we talk about at
• 5:55
  random all the time anyway, Why are we not writing this down?
• 6:00
  Why are we not recording this? You know what I mean?
• 6:04
  So that was just like the original concept and you know,
• 6:09
  it's a project that that that was going to bring us together a
• 6:12
  little bit more often. Sometimes we get displaced.
• 6:16
  It happens, life happens. It's it's, it's part of it.
• 6:18
  But that was the original, you know, idea behind the locking
• 6:24
  horns project concept behind the name was when you come together
• 6:31
  amongst brothers and you have horns are filled, those horns
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  are going to come together many times through the evening.
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  It's just kind of tradition. It happens.
• 6:41
  It's what we'll do. Oh yeah.
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  I can't tell you how many times I've been at a thing.
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  And it's just, you know, you're always toasting to something,
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  you know, Right? So there was that piece.
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  The other piece was when a coming together of minds, you
• 6:57
  know, let's sit down and have a conversation, let's debate,
• 7:01
  let's discuss, let's pick a topic and just kind of see where
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  it goes. And the other part of it is, you
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  know, is is that, you know, that animalistic, defensive thing.
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  OK, I have my opinion. I'm going to stay in my ground.
• 7:13
  But I do want to hear your story.
• 7:17
  Yeah, so you're not afraid to kind of go into those spaces
• 7:20
  where differing of opinions can sometimes create a a bit of a
• 7:24
  heated debate? A little bit, yeah.
• 7:27
  I mean it. It makes it fun.
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  But you know, in the end of the evening if it's all just fun and
• 7:31
  games, But what have you learned?
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  What are you taking from this? You know, how have you been?
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  Have you been challenged, you know, in a way, or are you just
• 7:41
  kind of following along the, you know, whatever popular trendy
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  something at the time? The the things that we take from
• 7:52
  our parents. So my, my, I, I grew up in a
• 7:56
  Christian household, both my parents, and was on that path.
• 7:59
  But my dad was a career educator, right?
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  His job was to teach people in schools.
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  He taught like 7th and 8th grade for 30 years.
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  Wow. But he was very devout in his,
• 8:14
  in his beliefs, you know? But as an educator, his
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  instructions to his children was keep an open mind, educate
• 8:25
  yourself, but keep an open mind. And, you know, that's kind of
• 8:30
  also a piece of probably why I ventured towards Pagan practices
• 8:36
  from Christianity. You know, I don't like this set
• 8:39
  of stories. They don't set well with me.
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  It doesn't feel right. Something's lacking, you know,
• 8:47
  educate yourself on something else.
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  Does this feel right? Understand it.
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  And if that doesn't work for you, you know, don't limit
• 8:55
  yourself to just giving up when something doesn't work.
• 9:00
  Keep moving forward. Keep an open mind.
• 9:03
  Find a way, right? Find a way exactly.
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  Yeah, yeah. I I think a lot of, a lot of
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  modern heathens, not just heathens, but, you know, pagans
• 9:13
  too, if you want to kind of use the umbrella term.
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  But, you know, a lot of folks have come from that Christian
• 9:20
  background in some form or fashion, either their parents
• 9:23
  were, whether, you know, depending on how you know, maybe
• 9:25
  they weren't like devout, you know, going to church every
• 9:28
  Sunday. But you know, they grew up, you
• 9:29
  know, there was a Bible around, you know, this or that.
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  So there's always that influence that that sort of, you know,
• 9:37
  bleed over from being brought up in a certain way.
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  And like let's face it, whether or not the whether or not a
• 9:43
  family that is living in America today is overly Christian or
• 9:47
  not, most people I think, you know, have a sort of Christian
• 9:53
  worldview. It's it's it's everywhere,
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  whether you're Christian or not there there's undertones and
• 9:57
  there's there's things that are just kind of ingrained into the
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  American culture. You know, I mean like you know
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  so many stores are closed on Sundays you know and and just
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  just subculture of of of Christian doctrine is is
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  everywhere. So when you either grow up in it
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  or exposed to it throughout your life to, you know, if you're not
• 10:24
  really devoted to that path, I don't think you're going to be
• 10:27
  able to get really get anything out of it.
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  Just like if you're not devoted to any sort of, you know, study
• 10:34
  or homework of any sort, whether it's theological or or not, you
• 10:38
  know you're not going to get out of any.
• 10:39
  You're not going to get anything out of it if you're not putting
• 10:41
  something into it. Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
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  You know, you, you you don't, you don't get a horse just to
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  have a horse. You get a horse because it's
• 10:51
  going to have a job, but you have to teach it what its job's
• 10:53
  going to be. Yeah, you know, and you, you,
• 10:57
  you, you out, you're out and I think you said Roanoke.
• 11:01
  It's Roanoke's the the southwestern part of Virginia,
• 11:06
  Appalachian Mountains, Blue Ridge Parkway and the
• 11:09
  Appalachian Trail. And and Roanoke's just a a big
• 11:14
  city center Now. I live out away from the city.
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  I can't do inner city living. It's just not for me.
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  It's not for my mentality. It's not how I grew up and I'm
• 11:25
  not comfortable with it, but I live close enough to the city
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  that I, you know, works 20 minutes away, 25 minutes away.
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  And you know, it's it's obtainable.
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  But the fact that, you know, live out and up, away from the
• 11:40
  roads and in the middle of the woods is peaceful and it's quiet
• 11:43
  and you know, it's it's where someone of my kind of mindset
• 11:46
  should be anyway. Yeah, I definitely feel more at
• 11:51
  home there. I I grew up Christian as well,
• 11:55
  but the the the the community that I grew up in was very, for
• 12:01
  lack of a better term, it was a very tribally focused sort of
• 12:05
  living. We we interacted with outside
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  our community as little as we had to right the the bare
• 12:14
  minimum that we needed to interact with what was outside
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  of our community was that, you know, so we a lot of us, you
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  know, I grew up working on a farm.
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  We raised our cattle for beef. We everybody had gardens.
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  There was a big community sort of garden that you know people
• 12:29
  could come and and you know tend to and help maintain and and.
• 12:34
  And that is the stuff that the exact description of how I grew
• 12:39
  up. So I actually grew up in
• 12:40
  Delaware on the East Coast. I didn't move to Virginia till I
• 12:43
  was 24. But you know, growing up on the
• 12:47
  farm, you you, you, you bring a different kind of mentality to
• 12:52
  adulthood. Oh for sure.
• 12:55
  Yeah. No, I I use.
• 12:56
  I made a joke one time like you know just seeing how some like
• 12:59
  the the younger generation. I don't know how old you are,
• 13:03
  but I'll. Be 41 this month.
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  Really. I'll be 40 this year.
• 13:07
  I didn't know. So we're around the same age.
• 13:09
  We come from the same or the same generation, right.
• 13:11
  Right. So you know, people that are
• 13:13
  like, you know, the the, the Gen.
• 13:15
  ZS or whatever they call them now.
• 13:17
  I don't know, like the kids. I know, I mean.
• 13:23
  I I made I made a joke. I'm like you know some of some
• 13:26
  of these kids have never had you know to shovel shit in you know
• 13:31
  some freezing temperatures where they've never been run run down
• 13:35
  by a 1200 LB steer. And it shows right.
• 13:39
  But these are things that you know yeah they build character
• 13:41
  and and it and it kind of sets a tone for the rest of your life
• 13:44
  and when you grew I did it for like 10 years working on a farm
• 13:48
  you know and like that that that does it It definitely sets a a
• 13:52
  stage I adulthood. Pretty sure we had some form of
• 14:00
  livestock, whether it be sheep or swine or a couple of head of
• 14:03
  cattle, for since I was, we'll just say since I was 10.
• 14:10
  Yep. It's about the same time I
• 14:12
  started working on a farm was I was like like 10 or 11 the the
• 14:16
  the big 5 gallon buckets that I used to have to like slosh water
• 14:19
  from from here to there or whatever I was.
• 14:22
  You know, at that age the buckets probably weighed about
• 14:25
  half as much as I did, fully loaded up with water and like
• 14:28
  they're sloshing in my boots and I couldn't hardly.
• 14:31
  And then like a couple of years later, I'm over here like single
• 14:34
  handedly tossing bales of hay up into trucks and it was like
• 14:37
  nothing. You know you you you you get 2.
• 14:41
  The two most brutal jobs you will ever have to do on any farm
• 14:49
  is tossed bales of hay in the top of a barn in the middle of
• 14:52
  summer, Yes Sir, and manually pound fence posts.
• 14:59
  Have done both. Can confirm he's right.
• 15:03
  Stretching, stretching fence, stretching barbed wire.
• 15:08
  You know we didn't have we had tractors and stuff but it was
• 15:11
  all like from like the 70s and 80s stuff.
• 15:14
  It was old equipment it it worked enough to to get the job
• 15:17
  done but man we didn't have we didn't have you know augers or
• 15:22
  or post hole diggers that were run by gasoline.
• 15:24
  Everything that we did, whether it was digging up and post hole,
• 15:28
  it was a post hole digger, yes. Right.
• 15:31
  You know, if you had to fix the fence, you were out there, you
• 15:34
  know, didn't matter what time of day or night it was, 'cause I
• 15:36
  mean the the, the steers didn't care if if it was an empty hole
• 15:39
  in the fence, they were going through it.
• 15:42
  You got to fix it. Doesn't matter, you know, if you
• 15:44
  felt like it or not, or if it was snowing or raining or what
• 15:46
  it was so, but yeah, you know, it was a it was a lifestyle that
• 15:51
  definitely helped condition me to like when I found Heathenry,
• 15:56
  I was like, wow, this is like everything I've already been
• 15:59
  doing or had learned to do with a different religious,
• 16:03
  spiritual. Kind of approach.
• 16:05
  You take away church on Sundays. This is exactly the life that
• 16:09
  I've been living my entire life anyway, right?
• 16:15
  Yeah, yeah, I I, I would agree, you know.
• 16:18
  And and I'll say like, I mean my family is, is, is of, you know,
• 16:22
  the the Christian background. But like, I wouldn't change my
• 16:26
  upbringing for anything. Oh yeah.
• 16:29
  I needed to experience that. I needed to grow up through
• 16:32
  that, to realize that, hey, it's not right for me.
• 16:37
  Yeah. And I think it helps too with,
• 16:39
  or at least it has with me. You know, it has helped me with
• 16:45
  learning more about Heathenry in in that you know, you've got
• 16:50
  this, there's this like for some reason you know that.
• 16:53
  Well, I know the reason why. But you know the animosity or
• 16:56
  the enmity between heathens and Christians, you know what I
• 16:59
  mean? And and but not a lot of people
• 17:02
  know the other side of the coin. A lot of folks I think have just
• 17:06
  become like spiteful or hateful towards the other without
• 17:11
  knowing what the other one is really about or learning more
• 17:15
  about the others. I'm like, well, listen, I came
• 17:16
  from that side. I at least know the doctrine.
• 17:19
  I at least know what the scripture says or this or that.
• 17:21
  You know what I mean. And and a lot of it, if you just
• 17:24
  take away the the the the the the the the extreme side of
• 17:28
  things like a lot of it ain't bad.
• 17:31
  You know morally speaking. You know we talk about morality
• 17:33
  and ethics and things like that. Like there's there's plenty of
• 17:37
  of valuable ethical and and and morally good things talked about
• 17:42
  in in you know their the Christian Bible or whatever.
• 17:46
  We were we were we were talking a little bit before we started
• 17:50
  about you know Ragnarok has it happened and and and I was like
• 17:55
  to kind of put it you know into you know like linear timeline
• 18:00
  kind of thinking if Ragnarok happened and the remaining
• 18:07
  characters of the story started a new story.
• 18:11
  It's like the end of the end of the the the Heathen lore story
• 18:18
  at Ragnarok can start the beginning of the next story.
• 18:26
  Yeah, you've probably heard some of the, the the various views,
• 18:31
  you know Ragnarok, you know like has it already happened, which
• 18:34
  is again one of our topics for tonight and some, I think some
• 18:37
  people think that Ragnarok is cyclical like there isn't just
• 18:41
  one Ragnarok that there are like.
• 18:45
  Like if just like imagine hypothetically if the the
• 18:50
  section of time that the Viking lore encompasses of those gods
• 18:56
  and and and that theoretical timeline was prior to the
• 19:00
  Christian the Christianity timeline and its stories and
• 19:04
  it's in its time frame. Was the tale of the Norse gods
• 19:09
  the previous cycle, and was Christianity the current cycle?
• 19:13
  Yeah. Well, so much of what those the
• 19:17
  the the Norse myths or I mean we're talking from the Viking
• 19:20
  Age. So everything that Snorri wrote
• 19:23
  and some of the other skaldic poets of that time.
• 19:27
  And if you like, compare some of those things to Christian
• 19:32
  mythos, you see some, you see some similarities like you know
• 19:37
  it and it does, it echoes like an apocalyptical story of like
• 19:43
  this old dying in this new world, being reborn and what was
• 19:46
  that for the time, our, our. Origin story the OR with Ash and
• 19:52
  Embla. Oh, the creation.
• 19:54
  Yeah, exactly. Right.
• 19:55
  Yeah. And the Christian origin story
• 19:57
  of Adam and Eve, it's it's one of those subtle coincidences.
• 20:02
  Oh, sure, they both start with the same letter.
• 20:05
  Is there a reason why? Right.
• 20:09
  You know, it's it's one of those little short.
• 20:11
  You know, well, that's an idea. Yeah, you know, and then you've
• 20:16
  got, you know, when you know, the death of Balder, which is
• 20:20
  what kicks Ragnarok off in the. Midst let's Let's have another
• 20:27
  Jesus Christ story. Yeah, like the the the best and
• 20:30
  brightest of the gospel. Who does that?
• 20:31
  Sound it's it's the same play with different characters in
• 20:35
  some type of view. Yeah.
• 20:40
  And I think we see that in different cultures too, not just
• 20:43
  dramatic and Scandinavian. Oh, definitely.
• 20:46
  I mean, there are. Thoroughly studied other
• 20:49
  cultures to extent, but you know, not enough to say so
• 20:53
  anyway. But I definitely agree with you.
• 20:56
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 20:57
  There's there's always like a, well, I I think even I can't
• 21:01
  even remember exactly where but I I I think if if I remember
• 21:04
  correctly like even the concept of this, you know only begotten
• 21:08
  son born of a virgin concept of of of what we hear of in the
• 21:13
  Christian the store Jesus story. Right.
• 21:16
  You know he's he's the son of God and he's born with a virgin.
• 21:19
  Right. That's Well, that's that's AI
• 21:21
  don't want to say, like I don't mean this like to be mean but
• 21:24
  it's a regurgitated tale as seen in like Egyptian myths and and
• 21:31
  and you know and I think even Vedic stuff from like you know
• 21:36
  from India proto indo European stories.
• 21:40
  So it's like, again, you know, where did they get it from, you
• 21:45
  know? And what was the purpose for the
• 21:47
  stories even to begin with? It was, you know, well, we
• 21:50
  gotta, we gotta, we gotta put a name to something that we're
• 21:52
  seeing or we're we're what we're experiencing, right, so.
• 21:57
  We're we're happening. The the the whole part about
• 22:02
  keeping an open mind is I I totally understand that the the
• 22:11
  human created concept of religion.
• 22:15
  This is like you have to believe in something or what do you
• 22:18
  believe in and you and and and it just it's all oral history
• 22:23
  oral tradition and then you share that with with all of your
• 22:26
  people and all of your folk. But it's like my dad would say
• 22:30
  it's it. It doesn't really mean anything
• 22:32
  concrete until it becomes liturgy, until you write it
• 22:36
  down, until you record it in the annals of history.
• 22:40
  Yeah, yeah. And I mean that's that's a valid
• 22:45
  observation because what has what what are the things that
• 22:48
  have kind of stood the test of time.
• 22:52
  It's what you can go back and read from a book about.
• 22:55
  Right. A lot of the challenges that we
• 22:59
  face as modern heathens, especially here in America, I
• 23:03
  feel because you're in, I mean you're in Virginia, I'm in
• 23:06
  Tennessee. We're both not from those
• 23:08
  respective places. I'm from New York, you know,
• 23:10
  you're from Delaware, right? We we we're we're taking stories
• 23:18
  from other places of the world and kind of fitting them into
• 23:23
  our idea or version. Of heathen holding it into our
• 23:30
  humming. Yeah, making it 1, so yeah.
• 23:34
  Yeah sure. And there's there's I'm sure
• 23:36
  there's there's a desire or or a or a pull maybe towards you know
• 23:40
  an ancestral way where we've come from you know that that
• 23:43
  whole thing. But ultimately it's like we're
• 23:45
  here on on on American soil. The stories of and the myths and
• 23:51
  and even the world views of these pre Christian people you
• 23:55
  know come from a land that we're not on right.
• 23:59
  And so we're we're in in in in in America specifically right
• 24:05
  like this whole thing is is very relatively new existing as as as
• 24:11
  a as a movement per SE. You know, we're we're talking,
• 24:14
  you know it less than 50 years ago or somewhere in that
• 24:18
  ballpark. You know the we'll we'll we'll
• 24:20
  stay since the since 1900. The growth has been exponential
• 24:25
  from year to year, but the last 60-70 years have been more of a
• 24:32
  growth than any. Yeah, the also true thing, you
• 24:36
  know, like the what what that is, but and you know, have you
• 24:43
  seen 'cause you're, you know, you you mentioned or I think I
• 24:45
  may have mentioned earlier, we haven't talked about it yet.
• 24:46
  But you aren't just a a podcaster, right.
• 24:49
  You don't just have the Locking Horns podcast.
• 24:52
  You've also got a crown of grassroots group of people that
• 24:56
  you share in more than just stuff with, right.
• 25:01
  You were talking earlier about some of your brothers talking on
• 25:03
  and doing a podcast with. So you guys have that but.
• 25:07
  But what is your group that you're affiliated with?
• 25:10
  I think you said Vikings of the. Valley.
• 25:12
  Yeah. Vikings of the Valley is kind of
• 25:13
  like how I got my start. I moved from Delaware when I was
• 25:19
  24. That was, what, 2007, right?
• 25:22
  And just kind of wandering around trying to get my feet up
• 25:25
  underneath to me and and literally start my life over on
• 25:29
  my own. But a couple of years after I
• 25:33
  move here, I'm working at a store, gentleman walks in and at
• 25:37
  the time I'm wearing a pinnacle. I practiced Wicca for a good
• 25:42
  numbers of years after, for like from the age of 18 through the
• 25:47
  mid 20s. But he saw the pinnacle around
• 25:50
  my neck and sparked conversation and and that's really was it.
• 25:55
  It was a a chance conversation with a customer, a guy I've
• 25:58
  never met before. Simple as that.
• 26:00
  And he had a program, Vikings of the Valley, local group of
• 26:06
  people. But it was really just based on
• 26:08
  education and and sharing this, the history, sharing the story,
• 26:11
  sharing the lore, dress up like a Viking, going in the parades
• 26:16
  and just have a good time. Live large or you know, you know
• 26:19
  live large and laugh out loud you know just enjoy the moments
• 26:23
  and and it was just a way of well-being for oneself but you
• 26:27
  know sharing that with your extended community in some
• 26:30
  fashion. But I mean it really started off
• 26:35
  with like habemal discussions. 5 or six of us just hanging out in
• 26:39
  his basement sharing a bottle of meat.
• 26:41
  Simple as that. You know you do that you know a
• 26:43
  couple of times you know a month and and and you get to know
• 26:46
  people and you and you're literally just educating
• 26:49
  yourself through conversation of a topic.
• 26:53
  But you know Vikings of the Valley is just something I've
• 26:55
  been a part of for over 12 years now and like we do stuff like
• 27:01
  the Saint Patrick's Day parade. We have a a hand built Viking
• 27:06
  long shift that's like 16 feet on A2 wheel trailer that we pull
• 27:09
  through the parades and we just have a good time you know and we
• 27:12
  enjoy the moments. It's really what the the the
• 27:16
  core value of what Vikings of the Valley is just, you know
• 27:20
  have a look at you know our Facebook page and just see what
• 27:23
  we have done. And there's also just a store an
• 27:27
  absolute store of information on that page simply just in the in
• 27:32
  the files like 20,000 files of you know Norse culture related
• 27:38
  stuff. How they lived.
• 27:40
  How they cooked stuff of the you know it just random bits of
• 27:44
  information that can be found. The creator of that page and my
• 27:48
  brother and Gothi, Jeff he he's just a store of information but
• 27:54
  I got to know him built a friendship and you know we we've
• 27:58
  been brothers ever since. Simple as that.
• 28:01
  But he was the guy that opened the door for me.
• 28:05
  Here's the door. Go through it if you want choice
• 28:09
  of yours. And.
• 28:12
  You know what I mean? It's right.
• 28:14
  I wouldn't have had the door to Heathenry and that way of
• 28:17
  thinking and that belief system and that way of looking at the
• 28:22
  world if it hadn't been for the simple chance encounter of this
• 28:25
  guy. Simple enough, you know.
• 28:28
  So I found So it's a public group on on Facebook. 1 1/2
• 28:32
  thousand members, give or take. We'll link that.
• 28:36
  Down lies and centered around. You know this area, but you know
• 28:40
  various members from across the world.
• 28:43
  But it it's it's been like a Facebook thing since, I don't
• 28:46
  know, 15 years, but the group's been around since, you know,
• 28:51
  over 20 years ago at this point. And I just happened to come
• 28:54
  along at some point and I stuck around but built family around
• 28:58
  it also. Yeah, no, that, I mean look like
• 29:02
  one of the things and it's it's like we got you know we're we're
• 29:07
  we're we're hopscotching around all of the topics that we were
• 29:10
  going to talk about. No, no, it's it's great 'cause
• 29:14
  like I like how the the format is, it's it's a bit of this it's
• 29:17
  a bit of that. But you, you, you, you said
• 29:20
  something that made me key on it.
• 29:21
  You know billing, family and it. And it started with a chance
• 29:26
  encounter which then led to this Facebook group.
• 29:30
  And because of the interactions and and friendships and and
• 29:34
  connections that you made in an online space, that was like a
• 29:38
  seed that got planted to cultivate this extension of.
• 29:43
  You know, no, I I'll be honest, the the whole fact that it's a
• 29:47
  Facebook page is secondary because this was at you know, I
• 29:52
  I had his phone number. I knew where he lived, you know.
• 29:54
  Oh, I see. I got you got to meet the people
• 29:57
  that he knew. It was all personal introduction
• 30:00
  and you know, like the whole thing that it's a Facebook page
• 30:03
  is, like, completely secondary. So your involvement with them
• 30:07
  became through his interaction with you guys being close and
• 30:12
  then the Vikings of the Valley thing came after the fact with
• 30:15
  for you. For me, yeah, yeah.
• 30:17
  But he the creator of it, Jeff, he'd like, I said.
• 30:20
  He's been doing it for like 20 years.
• 30:22
  Nice. That's great, man.
• 30:25
  Yeah, it's it's just it's a good place to be.
• 30:27
  It's a good, it was a good family for me to do, you know,
• 30:29
  really to become a part of being said.
• 30:32
  I had moved away from my, you know, birth family.
• 30:35
  Simple enough. Yeah, yeah, well, that that's
• 30:39
  one of the things that gets identified and and seen by a lot
• 30:44
  of the my audience too. I'm sure you've seen it with
• 30:46
  yours that people are looking for their, you know, call it
• 30:50
  their heathen home, you know, people that they can interact
• 30:56
  with to to whatever degree, right.
• 30:58
  I want look for people of like minds, right.
• 31:00
  They're not necessarily blood kin or related to me, but
• 31:03
  there's this sense of this kin or this family which we as
• 31:09
  heathens might might look as the the the term Frith.
• 31:14
  Frith is something that gets circulated very heavily around
• 31:16
  kinship. So you want to talk about that
• 31:20
  for a bit? Yeah.
• 31:21
  So yeah. I have seen hundreds of
• 31:32
  different Heathens from different parts of the country
• 31:37
  come together in one space and naturally and cohesively exist
• 31:43
  together for over a week. OK.
• 31:49
  Couple of the events that I have been to, that's kind of the
• 31:53
  format. Hey, we're going to give, we're
• 31:56
  going to provide a place to sleep.
• 31:57
  We're going to provide you know a place to eat.
• 32:00
  We're going to have crafts and vendors and you know such and
• 32:02
  just so it's a big, you know, it's a renaissance fair for
• 32:05
  Vikings pretty much. But you know classrooms were
• 32:08
  discussions and you know debates and and bonfires to sit next to
• 32:14
  and horns to share and community to build.
• 32:17
  That's why it's there. That's why you should do it in
• 32:21
  person. I feel that there is a certain
• 32:26
  level of connection that can be gotten from online groups.
• 32:31
  It's plain and simple. It's a form of connection.
• 32:34
  But you cannot develop that personable, cohesive bond with a
• 32:41
  group without being within the group.
• 32:46
  If you're not there, you can't experience it, right?
• 32:51
  So what are the things that you're talking about besides
• 32:53
  just, I mean, yeah, it's great to, you know, sit by fire and
• 32:59
  share a horn or or whatever of meat even if you don't drink
• 33:02
  alcohol, but just be in the same presence of of people.
• 33:06
  Are there other things that you have observed or seen that are
• 33:12
  beyond just those kind of like feel good, you know, buddy,
• 33:15
  buddy type not to be back so. That there, there's another
• 33:21
  Kindred close by in the county near me.
• 33:27
  I'm not a member of that kindred, but I'm a friend of
• 33:31
  that kindred. So I'm invited to some of their
• 33:34
  public events. I'm invited to some of their
• 33:37
  private events. I'm I'm just, I'm a friend of
• 33:39
  the Kindred and I'm considered welcome.
• 33:43
  But there has to be a certain level of comfort with the
• 33:50
  entity, whoever it is, that's inviting you, that's opened that
• 33:53
  door for you, that the comfortable bond with somebody
• 33:58
  is like the the foundation of Frith, OK, in my opinion, you
• 34:05
  cannot develop a bond with someone or a group of people
• 34:12
  without doing it in person. Yeah.
• 34:19
  Do you think, sorry, you were going to say something else?
• 34:22
  Yeah the a couple of I I went to this event East East Coast thing
• 34:29
  for a good. Number we just talked about.
• 34:31
  I'm sorry to cut you off. That's funny, you mentioned it,
• 34:33
  'cause I just, I just had my my last guest on Eric.
• 34:36
  Eric, Yes, he's going to, he's I.
• 34:39
  Met Eric. I met Eric through East Coast
• 34:43
  thing. I've known him for, I think
• 34:46
  about nine years now. Really.
• 34:49
  Yep, I will. I will be seeing him at East
• 34:52
  Coast thing. He's doing, he's doing a
• 34:53
  presentation on his American Futh Arch.
• 34:57
  Yeah, sorry to cut you off on that, but.
• 34:59
  He's an interview of my own since I've done it.
• 35:03
  Yeah, yeah. Do it.
• 35:05
  Anyway, go ahead. But there's a There's a prime
• 35:09
  example. I I I would have never have met
• 35:14
  Eric or his brother if it hadn't been for this event of you know
• 35:20
  he he lives in a totally different part of the country as
• 35:22
  I do that interaction would never have happened you know
• 35:26
  what I mean. But when a a space is set aside
• 35:32
  for chance encounters and and and you can develop threat can
• 35:37
  be developed in in your local community and and how you
• 35:40
  interact with those people that you choose to keep around you
• 35:45
  those that you keep in your circle and even those that you
• 35:48
  have in your extended circles it's it's it's it's like a
• 35:52
  mutual respect a mutual want to assist if I can hey I'll do what
• 35:58
  I can. If I can, it's it's yeah, don't
• 36:04
  worry, I got the kids tomorrow morning, I have a couple more
• 36:06
  drinks. It's the the the subtle, simple
• 36:10
  nuances of a natural, cohesive blend of living together for
• 36:16
  extended periods of time. And if you have an event where
• 36:22
  you're camping together for a week, you're going to live with
• 36:26
  these people for a week, You have to extend a certain level
• 36:31
  of breath for the for it to even, you know, begin to make
• 36:36
  any kind of sense. It's and it's and it's again,
• 36:41
  back to the Golden rule. This is like do unto others as
• 36:44
  you want to do unto you. Well, if everybody does that and
• 36:48
  it just simply naturally blends together, it's not something
• 36:51
  that you have forced upon you. You know what I mean?
• 36:57
  Well, one of the things that I've seen happen is Frith gets
• 37:02
  the term itself gets misunderstood and misused to
• 37:08
  mean just a general sense of peace.
• 37:11
  Like, hey, let's all just be happy, let's all just get along.
• 37:13
  This is a safe space, that sort of thing.
• 37:17
  It's way deeper than that though.
• 37:18
  Yeah, like if if you could just simply square that, you know.
• 37:22
  Yeah, like. That group of words squared,
• 37:25
  it's so much deeper than that, and it's one of those things
• 37:29
  that, like I said, that is impossible to do in an online
• 37:37
  group. I agree.
• 37:40
  I agree that the the the fundamentals of Frith cannot.
• 37:44
  Cannot. Right.
• 37:47
  Yeah. Not just online.
• 37:49
  Now the there are, again, there's subtleties or nuance to
• 37:53
  what Frith is that makes an online experience with somebody.
• 37:57
  Like, you can get like a taste of it.
• 38:00
  Like you can feel certain aspects of Frith, but not what
• 38:03
  Frith truly is. Because one of the things that
• 38:05
  I've come to learn that what Frith involves is you mentioned
• 38:10
  such things as, hey, you know, again, I got the kids for the
• 38:14
  tomorrow, go ahead and have another beer or drink or
• 38:17
  whatever, right? There's this reciprocity,
• 38:19
  there's this obligation, the sense of responsibility to one
• 38:24
  another that has that, that happens when we talk about
• 38:28
  Frith. You don't get that long distance
• 38:33
  law online, you know, because who do I like?
• 38:35
  I don't know. You like that.
• 38:37
  You don't know me like that. Why would I entrust you and why
• 38:39
  would you entrust me? You know, when you're camping
• 38:43
  side by side with people, you're again, you're you have to rely
• 38:49
  on one another and there's that whole obligation thing.
• 38:53
  Well, if something if my tent decides to, you know if the wind
• 38:56
  comes by and takes my tent away. And you happen to be there.
• 39:00
  And I happened to be there like, or they happened to be there
• 39:03
  like I. Know like help me, the field
• 39:06
  that we used to camp in, that happened a couple of times and I
• 39:10
  can't. And every time, every time
• 39:11
  somebody's tent or a couple of different tents blew up out of
• 39:14
  the field, people were on it. Yeah, like everybody was on it.
• 39:20
  Like anybody that was willing and able and could run across
• 39:24
  the field to chase after somebody's tent was on it and it
• 39:27
  got handled. But that's exactly what you're
• 39:30
  saying. And you?
• 39:32
  Again, you're not going to experience that over long
• 39:34
  distance. You know, online you got, you
• 39:37
  might get a. Friendship.
• 39:40
  You can definitely develop a connection.
• 39:42
  You can you can get to know somebody to an extent, but until
• 39:50
  you have the opportunity for that in person interaction for
• 39:57
  more than just a few minutes and you give a little bit of time
• 40:02
  for your for your energies to mix and you get to know a little
• 40:07
  bit more about that person, then maybe just you know exactly you
• 40:15
  don't want to fall into the to to to the realm of well, is this
• 40:23
  going to be an issue. What will be done about it if it
• 40:27
  becomes an issue and how that is handled is another big aspect of
• 40:32
  Frith. You know there is the negative
• 40:36
  side of you know the opposing opposite of what Frith is and
• 40:40
  and how does the community handle a situation together to
• 40:44
  make something positive happen. Yeah, because you know you're
• 40:51
  you're and I realize I'm like for those of you watching this
• 40:55
  like Matt's over there just just rocking away and I'm like my my
• 41:00
  camera's frozen. So apologies for that.
• 41:04
  I'm just gonna I'm just gonna keep.
• 41:07
  I'm just gonna keep going and maybe it fixes itself Otherwise
• 41:11
  I I, you know I don't wanna like ruin a good thing.
• 41:12
  At least we got the audio. I might I might play with it a
• 41:18
  little bit as we go. But this is just kind of part of
• 41:20
  the whole audio visual experience guys.
• 41:23
  You know, technology is a thing and we just kind of roll with
• 41:27
  it. But yeah, to your point, Matt,
• 41:30
  like when we're talking about Frith again, it's not just, it's
• 41:33
  not all sunshine, sunshines and rainbows and you know, happy
• 41:37
  times and good times. Frith involves you know doing
• 41:42
  sometimes the the it's doing The Dirty work with with people
• 41:47
  right. Getting our hands dirty and and
• 41:50
  getting through some of the messy times.
• 41:53
  Because again ordeal is one of those things that I feel are are
• 41:59
  necessary to cultivate and breed worth amongst people, right You
• 42:04
  got to go through some shit, you got to be, you got to be tested,
• 42:07
  you got to be tried. There has to be challenged
• 42:09
  because it proves something right.
• 42:12
  It proves your grit, it proves your tenacity.
• 42:15
  It proves your worth, worthiness amongst your people to be able
• 42:19
  to handle something And if all you are is just, you know this
• 42:23
  this sort of like I don't want to I don't want to fight.
• 42:25
  I don't want to I don't want to be a bother.
• 42:27
  I don't want to be like no man sometimes it it it takes dirty.
• 42:32
  Yeah, it needs to be done. You know, and and those types of
• 42:37
  things are adage is no, go ahead.
• 42:43
  The old, yeah, the old adage of prove your metal and you know
• 42:52
  the human experiences is is simply that it's experiences on
• 42:56
  top of experiences beaten and hammered and forged into you and
• 43:00
  who you are and what you will make of yourself.
• 43:03
  What kind of beautiful pattern Damascus has your life become.
• 43:09
  Prove your mettle because you're right.
• 43:12
  Ordeal needs to be had in in one's life in order to grow from
• 43:17
  it, to to make make yourself stronger, get yourself more
• 43:20
  aware to make yourself a better person moving forward.
• 43:26
  Yeah. Can you still hear me?
• 43:30
  Yes, I can still hear you. OK, I'm playing around with
• 43:34
  stuff, guys. Yeah, it has to be.
• 43:37
  It has to be something that is proven through that.
• 43:43
  And and and I think in in my life I I I spent somewhere
• 43:49
  between 15 and 20 years in the martial arts before Heathenry
• 43:55
  came into my life. And I think the trials and
• 43:59
  tribulations of levels of ascension through martial arts
• 44:05
  kind of forged me into the makings of of a good heathen.
• 44:13
  Yeah, I would say that is another like we talked earlier
• 44:17
  about, you know, working on a farm or you know, kind of being
• 44:21
  raised in a community that helped the transition into
• 44:24
  Heathenry be seamless. I've, I've heard the same thing
• 44:30
  like you're talking about with members of the military.
• 44:34
  So anyone who has served in any of the military branches you
• 44:39
  know the they understand they know what it means to be
• 44:44
  responsible and and and rely on others in a unit in a in a you
• 44:50
  know and sure that might that might really lean heavily into
• 44:53
  like the war band culture of of of things which is you know it's
• 44:57
  a thing but. If you have to fight, are you
• 45:02
  prepared, right? Yeah.
• 45:04
  Have you gone through those trials?
• 45:06
  Have you gone through those challenges?
• 45:07
  Have you been tested? Have you been proven?
• 45:09
  I I know what it's. I know what it means to be
• 45:11
  beaten. Yeah, it's a very powerful
• 45:14
  statement. Right.
• 45:16
  And that's what you know, that's another thing that the the
• 45:19
  martial arts, you know, being exposed to that those sorts of
• 45:23
  lessons can teach similarly, right?
• 45:26
  Obviously not in. Maybe the same.
• 45:28
  It's definitely not the same like hierarchy background of of
• 45:33
  belief systems. It's not the same religious
• 45:35
  structure. No, No.
• 45:37
  Right when when you talk about spirituality and you know how
• 45:44
  you cope under pressure, yes. What drives you?
• 45:49
  What makes you keep going? Yeah.
• 45:53
  What's what source of energy? Sparks that flame.
• 46:01
  Do you think that the? Do you think that some of like
• 46:06
  the, I want to say like we don't really have sacred texts as
• 46:14
  heathens, You know it's not like a Bible or anything but do you
• 46:16
  think that some of what like the we'll just use the have them all
• 46:19
  as an example, right. Because it's it's pretty, it's
• 46:22
  it's practical stuff like it's it's common sense, like wisdom
• 46:27
  like do you think that? It's, it's, it's common sense.
• 46:31
  Yeah, A good majority of it is, is common sense when I started
• 46:40
  and I've read it before, but I haven't read it and dove into
• 46:45
  it, you know what I mean? HAVA Mall, yeah, I have, I have
• 46:52
  study the study HAVA Mall, which has three different translations
• 46:57
  plus the old Norse and then the same has a line for your notes.
• 47:04
  It's it when you look at various translations, the the work's
• 47:09
  been done for us is one piece of it.
• 47:14
  All right, cool. I don't have to go back and and
• 47:16
  and translate Old Norse. I don't have to learn a
• 47:19
  language, right. It's been translated for us
• 47:24
  historically and modern days with, you know, people like
• 47:27
  Jackson Crawford. For me, it started off as like a
• 47:30
  little bit of a hobby. All right, well, what can I get
• 47:34
  from this that makes sense today?
• 47:38
  What's works? And for a majority of it, it
• 47:41
  mostly still works. I I wouldn't suggest that the
• 47:50
  sections where Odin is attempting to court.
• 47:56
  Yeah, yeah. I don't think that those are
• 48:01
  appropriate in in in a modern in a modern day and age.
• 48:07
  And there are aspects of it that if you change one word from him,
• 48:16
  he to her, it can apply to both the male and the female
• 48:23
  attributes in a modern age. Now it can it it it probably
• 48:33
  wasn't so 1000 years ago, you know?
• 48:37
  Yeah, yeah, I mean like morals and ethics have have changed
• 48:42
  over time. And and I always lean, I always
• 48:44
  go back to when when people 'cause this happens in
• 48:48
  Christianity, you know as well. But like, people cherry pick a
• 48:55
  verse of scripture or something from the Bible, right, to fit
• 49:01
  what they're trying to push as an agenda.
• 49:03
  And I feel like the same thing can happen or has happened or or
• 49:07
  whatever with Heathens and the Hava Mall.
• 49:12
  What the stanza in this says is that.
• 49:14
  And they'll use that as like a justification of their actions.
• 49:18
  And I'm like you're, you're taking it out of context.
• 49:20
  Yeah. You're like, you know, realize
• 49:22
  what the world was like 1000 years ago or even longer.
• 49:26
  You know, and and. Regardless, it's one of those
• 49:29
  things of again, you know, but back to, you know, keeping an
• 49:33
  open mind about it is if this was written down and then
• 49:42
  subsequently translated by a bunch of people and those
• 49:50
  translations have been recorded for the past X numbers of years
• 49:54
  of our history, they probably mean something.
• 49:58
  And I feel like this is kind of like one of those pieces of
• 50:00
  history that was laid down in front of you to give you the
• 50:04
  opportunity to open up your mind.
• 50:09
  And just like these things can apply to your everyday life in
• 50:14
  some fashion. And it's straight from Stanza
• 50:19
  One. And yes, I'll quote but when you
• 50:21
  walk through the door, you look at the four walls around you and
• 50:25
  makes you aware of your space. You know it's.
• 50:29
  It's just simple words of wisdom.
• 50:31
  Common sense is a majority of it.
• 50:33
  A lot of it. And you know there's there where
• 50:39
  you know you have the section where O Odin is attempting to
• 50:42
  get the the meat of poetry and from Suitingler's Hall and his
• 50:53
  trials that he had to go through to do it.
• 50:56
  I don't think that these would be applicable today.
• 51:00
  But what I got from that chunk of of the story was if you if
• 51:07
  you value something above all else and you will grow from
• 51:14
  achieving it, who is to stop you from it trying?
• 51:23
  I think it goes, sorry, go. Ahead and and and and that's
• 51:27
  just like one of those we we talked about.
• 51:29
  You know you know the essence of the gods that's a piece of
• 51:33
  Odin's essence. Is that never ending?
• 51:37
  You know self trial to expand his knowledge and whatever it
• 51:44
  took to find what he needed to expand his knowledge to know
• 51:50
  more. Right.
• 51:53
  Yeah. That goes into you know
• 51:55
  understanding. Like again it it it it touches
• 52:01
  back on the like what I was talking with the context of
• 52:04
  things right. World views have changed.
• 52:08
  Ethics and morals have evolved. There was a, you know you want
• 52:14
  to you want to use like Odin as an example of of he, he's one of
• 52:20
  the gods that is written the most about that we have source
• 52:24
  material that we can you know read back on and be like, well,
• 52:28
  you know even if you just go based off of all the, the all of
• 52:33
  the names that he is called in various sources or he's known by
• 52:39
  his various names. I forget how many there are.
• 52:41
  But it's like you know in the hundreds.
• 52:43
  Yeah, it's it's a lot. And they all mean different
• 52:46
  things and they all cover various aspects.
• 52:48
  He's so diverse and he's so multifaceted.
• 52:50
  When you get down to brass tacks, he is diabolical, you
• 52:55
  know? And how does that apply to like
• 52:58
  if you want to emulate a deity, if you want to, you know use the
• 53:02
  the essence of a of a of a of a deity and and try to like
• 53:06
  exemplify their, their characteristics.
• 53:09
  Just all you know, personally speaking like Odin is, is
• 53:13
  probably the last one I would wanna emulate in terms of
• 53:16
  everyday sorts of things. You know what I mean?
• 53:20
  Certain aspects of a yes. And when I sit down and I open
• 53:24
  up a book with the intent of trying to learn what is on the
• 53:27
  pages, I'm inviting Odin into my life.
• 53:30
  I'm inviting that aspect that will to learn more, to acquire
• 53:34
  knowledge. I'm bringing that into my my
• 53:36
  life time. Yes, it's.
• 53:39
  Not staying forever I'll, I'll call on you again but you know
• 53:45
  it it's it's it's it's a worthy attribute to obtain.
• 53:51
  Real quick, I did have a have a thought.
• 53:53
  You talking about, you know, essence of the gods and stuff.
• 53:56
  Did you Have you ever had an experience that you'd be willing
• 53:59
  to talk about right now with regards to thinking of the
• 54:05
  essence of a God or maybe trying to emulate or invoke the the
• 54:11
  essence of of a God or goddess even perhaps that you didn't
• 54:15
  fully understand. That you didn't maybe fully
• 54:17
  understand in the moment when you were doing it.
• 54:21
  And then during that moment you kind of got schooled and you got
• 54:26
  like told a bit about the situation.
• 54:31
  Like you got, you got your ass handed to you in a way because
• 54:33
  you thought maybe there was, you know, oh, I I I'm thinking of
• 54:37
  this particular God or goddess in one way.
• 54:40
  And that's what I'm trying to emulate or or or invoke or
• 54:42
  perhaps, you know, you know, express or or or have an essence
• 54:47
  of. But during that process, you
• 54:51
  again kind of got like your ass handed to you in a way or you
• 54:53
  got schooled away in a bit to be like, you know what I'm trying
• 54:58
  to say? Like, does that ever happen?
• 54:59
  To you, I I I can't say that I've personally had an
• 55:05
  experience to the to that magnitude that I can immediately
• 55:10
  draw on. But what what I can say is that
• 55:16
  it's more of a actually, you know what?
• 55:19
  Yeah, I do, Yeah, I do. I I I I work retail, automotive,
• 55:25
  retail repair. That's my day job.
• 55:29
  Had a customer who was not happy that his car did not pass
• 55:37
  inspection and it was for a a window tint issue.
• 55:43
  It was lower than it was allowed to be.
• 55:47
  He, he was exchanging words with my manager.
• 55:50
  He was exchanging words with the technician and I walk over and
• 55:57
  just and I and I get involved, you know, and it pretty much
• 56:02
  ends up with this guy punching me right in the face.
• 56:06
  Was not happy about it and it's, you know, I I, I I have a bit of
• 56:12
  a dodge. I get out of the way just a
• 56:14
  little bit, but the connection's still made and you kind of stand
• 56:17
  back up and stare at them and there's like this moment for
• 56:19
  like 2 to 3 seconds where you're just in the eye contact or what?
• 56:23
  Yeah. Do I hit back?
• 56:24
  What am I? Yeah, like.
• 56:25
  What do you want to do? And and it's like in that moment
• 56:32
  everybody in the shop started kind of coming in behind him and
• 56:36
  the manager kind of got him and in between us inmate space.
• 56:41
  But you know that's a situation of you know, you want to
• 56:45
  retaliate but will you make the situation worse You know all of
• 56:51
  that flashes before your eyes for a moment.
• 56:54
  What do you actually do in the scenario?
• 57:00
  Personally, I, I, I, I try to surround my consciousness, if
• 57:06
  you would, with what we have as like describable attributes for
• 57:14
  the Norse God. Tear sacrificed his hand for the
• 57:17
  wolf, you know, to the wolf for the greater good.
• 57:19
  I mean there's there's three mentions of him that I think
• 57:22
  that we have in Norse lore right now.
• 57:25
  He goes fishing with Thor and then he disappears before they
• 57:28
  get on the boat. What happened?
• 57:32
  Where'd he go? But the biggest story that we
• 57:34
  have is, is that of, you know, is sacrifice so that the gods
• 57:40
  could live longer or that the the essence of chaos could be
• 57:46
  bound and put away for a little bit.
• 57:51
  It's it's the skill that you have.
• 57:55
  Listen, like I said, I've studied martial arts.
• 57:57
  Can I, can I hurt somebody? Sure.
• 57:59
  Do I want to know, right, Will? Will Will I unleash those those
• 58:05
  chains that bind my personal chaos and, you know, let that
• 58:10
  animal run free for its its stead?
• 58:16
  Yeah. How do I, you know be it, be it,
• 58:18
  be it be a bit more like you say you know tactical which would
• 58:23
  which would emulate you know what you would maybe perhaps
• 58:26
  think of someone like tear and old and even.
• 58:30
  I mean, Tear being like he said, he's a God of War.
• 58:33
  But I kind of, I mean, you know, think of him as more of a war
• 58:36
  tactician. He's counsel to the war.
• 58:41
  Yeah, I mean he's he's definitely in the war band like
• 58:44
  the the a seer tribe. But you know he's not Thor like
• 58:48
  Thor. Thor would have punched the guy
• 58:49
  right back. He doesn't think.
• 58:54
  He's not about thinking, actually.
• 58:56
  I said do it now, don't think questions later, right?
• 59:00
  You know, he's the grunt. You know what I mean?
• 59:03
  He's he's the guy that you want to get something done when
• 59:06
  action is needed to get it done. You know that that that sort of
• 59:10
  Urus energy, you know, that unbridled, primal power, right?
• 59:16
  He's definitely not thinking about the greater good.
• 59:20
  It's it's well, we've already thought about that.
• 59:22
  Now we need somebody to do. The problem now we're how do we
• 59:25
  move on from it? Right?
• 59:28
  Right. Yeah.
• 59:29
  I'm sorry. I make more problems.
• 59:32
  It's it's you know I'd rather he's the he's the guy that when
• 59:35
  you when you when you bring him up he's be like you know what
• 59:37
  it's it's it. I'd rather, I'd rather ask for
• 59:40
  forgiveness than get permission. Yeah, he's that kind of guy, you
• 59:45
  know? I did what need to be done.
• 59:48
  Yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, that's
• 59:52
  that's that's valid. You know what I mean?
• 59:53
  Like that that's. And, and and again there's like
• 59:55
  that another, you know, human attribute description that we
• 1:00:00
  can give a God is, is how many people do you know in your life
• 1:00:06
  that have that piece of personality.
• 1:00:11
  It's like my personal opinion that if you were to give a list
• 1:00:14
  of descriptive attributes of how you would describe the gods
• 1:00:23
  individually or as a whole. Do you emulate them in any way?
• 1:00:29
  How do you live your life to honor the gods?
• 1:00:35
  I'm not saying worship them, but honor them.
• 1:00:39
  Do you would think would be right in their eyes?
• 1:00:44
  Should they be watching you currently?
• 1:00:49
  That's an interesting question. You know, I think like thinking
• 1:00:56
  that way just off of, like, me thinking that way, like it, it
• 1:01:02
  almost kind of echoes like this. Like what would Jesus do
• 1:01:09
  exactly? What would the gods do?
• 1:01:11
  Right, right, right. And kind of.
• 1:01:14
  But, you know, it's it's it. Honoring a God might even be
• 1:01:19
  considered like some kind of form of, you know, flattery.
• 1:01:24
  You know, this was how he's described in the stories.
• 1:01:28
  I want to be like that. Yeah.
• 1:01:31
  Yeah, right. But like personally, my, I, I
• 1:01:36
  look at, at, at, at, at the simple, you know, sacrifice of
• 1:01:40
  you know, tears, sword arm, to to to bind, unbridled rage to
• 1:01:50
  bind unfathomable chaotic change, to hold that back just
• 1:01:59
  for a little bit so that we can see what happens with the rest
• 1:02:02
  of existence. Yeah, to keep order, you know,
• 1:02:09
  You know, there's like, jeez, I'm thinking, you know, that's a
• 1:02:15
  big, that's a big thing. You know, I think a lot of
• 1:02:17
  folks, especially newer folks coming into Heathenry from
• 1:02:20
  Christianity, carry with them this idea or this, this thought
• 1:02:24
  that they have to somehow be noticed by the gods on an
• 1:02:31
  individual level, you know, to do something that is worthy of
• 1:02:35
  their attention. And I wonder how much they're
• 1:02:42
  thinking. A lot of that and maybe
• 1:02:44
  neglecting something a bit closer to home, right.
• 1:02:49
  Their ancestors. Yeah.
• 1:02:52
  Are you living in a way that honor?
• 1:02:55
  And bingo, are you living in a way that honors the gods?
• 1:03:00
  That's the real question. And that Does that mean that you
• 1:03:03
  have to have, you know, phase or or or rituals set up on a
• 1:03:10
  routine basis? No.
• 1:03:12
  No. Do you have to have an altar in
• 1:03:14
  your house? No.
• 1:03:16
  No. But should you be carrying
• 1:03:19
  yourself and living your life in a matter that would be
• 1:03:23
  considered just and right and acceptable and respected?
• 1:03:28
  Honorable I think you know, I was talking to a guy, a
• 1:03:34
  gentleman not too long ago, who I had on my podcast.
• 1:03:38
  He is Robert Sass out to do Old Ways Saxon Heathenry you know
• 1:03:45
  and very reconstructionist I mean 100% a reconstructionist
• 1:03:51
  and and that's fine if that's the way you want to go about
• 1:03:54
  your your Heathenry. And you know so a lot of what
• 1:03:57
  Reconstructionist Heathens circulate around are you know
• 1:04:01
  when the holy tithes were held pre Christian times right based
• 1:04:06
  on the looming solar calendar and all this and that.
• 1:04:08
  And while that is there there's you know that's important And if
• 1:04:11
  that's your angle on things one of the things that came out with
• 1:04:14
  his and I recent discussion were how are you acting, how are you
• 1:04:19
  conducting yourself because by his observations by and large in
• 1:04:24
  the the greater also true you know Norse heathen communities,
• 1:04:28
  it's like a lot of people are just not acting honorably.
• 1:04:32
  So you you heard the whole? Thing leave, it's, it's.
• 1:04:36
  How you heard the old adage, I I I like your Christian God, but I
• 1:04:39
  don't like you Christians. It's like because they're you,
• 1:04:44
  you don't act the way his image is portrayed.
• 1:04:51
  Yeah, yeah. And if you can't carry yourself
• 1:04:57
  through everyday common existence, whether it be you
• 1:05:03
  going to work and and going and sitting in a cubicle, or if you
• 1:05:07
  go and work a retail job where you talk to 100 people a day,
• 1:05:12
  you know you interact with that extended community, the
• 1:05:16
  community of your life's existence.
• 1:05:18
  It doesn't have to be just confined to those that you know
• 1:05:22
  that are heathen, you know that might be your inner circle, but
• 1:05:26
  with the community that you exist with, there's that piece
• 1:05:28
  of it too. Do you carry yourself in a
• 1:05:31
  manner that would be fit of honoring the gods?
• 1:05:39
  Yeah, 'cause there's already this.
• 1:05:41
  I feel like there's already this underlying stigma placed on
• 1:05:46
  folks like us. You know why?
• 1:05:49
  Because of the misappropriation of certain symbols, of certain
• 1:05:53
  imagery. You know, you see folks that
• 1:05:57
  look like you and I wearing a hammer or wearing certain rune
• 1:06:00
  pendants or whatever. And what do automatically gets
• 1:06:04
  assumed by people is that, well, you're you're in the, you know
• 1:06:09
  you're you're not the right crowd of people.
• 1:06:11
  Well, that's an unfortunate misappropriation.
• 1:06:14
  So what are we doing and how are we behaving?
• 1:06:16
  So it's it's just like you you wearing your crucifix.
• 1:06:20
  You know, it's a symbol of identification. 1 plain and
• 1:06:25
  simple. It's a symbol of identification,
• 1:06:28
  but that doesn't determine the kind of person that you are.
• 1:06:34
  So. You know this?
• 1:06:36
  And I have this that I have around my neck.
• 1:06:38
  It's, it's it's made of paracord and it's the same diameter as my
• 1:06:41
  brow. So it's incredibly difficult to
• 1:06:44
  take off. I don't.
• 1:06:46
  I don't take it off. I may have taken it off at most
• 1:06:50
  five times since I made it eight years ago.
• 1:06:53
  It doesn't come off, but it's part of me.
• 1:06:59
  It's part of my path. I'm in the process of having
• 1:07:02
  tattoo work done which took me 10 years to decide if I even
• 1:07:06
  wanted to go down that route of getting ink permanently placed
• 1:07:11
  on my body as a representation of what I think.
• 1:07:14
  I what what I think of you know this this this structure.
• 1:07:18
  You know it's it's yeah. I was asked the question, what
• 1:07:22
  makes you worthy of such a piece?
• 1:07:25
  Are you living the life that represents what you're about to
• 1:07:29
  tattoo on your body? Yeah.
• 1:07:33
  And that statement alone, like, made me wait three years.
• 1:07:38
  Like I thought I was ready. He posed that question to me and
• 1:07:41
  I was stumped for another three years before I actually
• 1:07:44
  committed to a path, committed to a decision, committed to, you
• 1:07:49
  know, portraying that representation of myself.
• 1:07:55
  I think that's a really good approach to take, I'm sure.
• 1:08:00
  I guess I'd ask you like have you seen or have you encountered
• 1:08:03
  people that have the imagery that that wear the trappings but
• 1:08:10
  do so purely based on the aesthetic?
• 1:08:13
  Like they have no real, like, they like the idea of it.
• 1:08:17
  They don't follow the path. They just, oh, I like the way it
• 1:08:20
  looks or I like what it represents, you know, like, have
• 1:08:23
  you encountered people that? That's phenomenon started 1012
• 1:08:30
  years ago. The explosion happened when we
• 1:08:34
  had you know, the Vikings series on history.
• 1:08:38
  The explosion happened when you got video games like, you know,
• 1:08:45
  God of War, Ragnarok and Assassin's Creed, Valhalla,
• 1:08:49
  those kind of immersed, you know, experiences to maybe open
• 1:08:56
  the door. Oh, what if you never heard of
• 1:08:57
  Vikings before and you pick up Assassin's Creed Valhalla,
• 1:09:00
  You're going to know. You're going to have a taste of
• 1:09:03
  an understanding of what it's about.
• 1:09:06
  OK. But what that brought forth,
• 1:09:09
  what, you know, the TV shows and the series, I mean, Last
• 1:09:12
  Kingdom, one of my favourites. Oh yeah.
• 1:09:15
  It's just a a great in, in my personal opinion, portrayal of
• 1:09:19
  what life could have been like that.
• 1:09:22
  Is this a story? Like, I, I, I, I look at like
• 1:09:25
  The Last Kingdom storyline, like I would look at the Icelandic
• 1:09:29
  sagas, you know, sagas are written down.
• 1:09:33
  They just made a movie from a novel with that.
• 1:09:35
  But it's something that opened the door in the minds of
• 1:09:43
  millions of people that saw it, regardless of what it was.
• 1:09:48
  The video game, the video, the TV show, whatever said, oh,
• 1:09:53
  what's this really about? And then kind of from there,
• 1:09:57
  those millions of people had one way to one way to go or the
• 1:10:01
  other. They like it.
• 1:10:03
  They like the aesthetic, they like the garb, they like the
• 1:10:05
  clothing, They like the idea of it.
• 1:10:07
  It's cool to play, you know, dress up, cosplay, stuff like
• 1:10:09
  that. There's that group of people.
• 1:10:12
  Now there might be a a large majority of those people that
• 1:10:15
  also has begun their education on the history, the lore, trying
• 1:10:25
  to, you know, learn more about the gods and understanding them
• 1:10:28
  and educating yourself and keeping an open mind and
• 1:10:30
  bringing it all in and greatening your experience with
• 1:10:35
  the subject. But so yeah, personally the the
• 1:10:42
  haircut that I wear is 100% from the first first, you know,
• 1:10:48
  Viking show and you see Ragnar Lothbrok with his haircut this
• 1:10:51
  way. Yes, I.
• 1:10:51
  Yeah, the undercut, yeah. Yeah, I've had my haircut ever
• 1:10:54
  since like that. But again, it it's one of those
• 1:10:59
  things, it's it's a symbol of recognition.
• 1:11:02
  Socially, people kind of have an idea by how you portray yourself
• 1:11:07
  or what you wear, but that doesn't determine the kind of
• 1:11:11
  person that you are. So the other part of that is you
• 1:11:16
  have the people that didn't know anything about it.
• 1:11:19
  There's mention of the gods and goddesses throughout the series
• 1:11:22
  and they want to know more. Oh, that sounds interesting.
• 1:11:26
  And then they find out that it fits their life very well.
• 1:11:30
  And then there's that piece of the transition.
• 1:11:33
  So like, we have to thank, you know, modern technology, movie
• 1:11:38
  making, social media for all that's actually out there right
• 1:11:42
  now and the explosion of the rebirth of this belief system in
• 1:11:48
  America. Now bear in mind, we are not of
• 1:11:50
  those people. We are not from that place in
• 1:11:54
  time and we are not living or from that part of the world.
• 1:12:00
  We're not Vikings. Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:12:03
  No. No, we're not.
• 1:12:04
  Yeah. Like, let.
• 1:12:06
  Yeah, I'm, I'm sure you've heard it a bunch of times.
• 1:12:08
  Yeah, like you call yourself Vikings of the Valley.
• 1:12:11
  But like, let's be clear. Like, well, let's be real, you
• 1:12:14
  know, that's part of the history it.
• 1:12:20
  Yeah. Like, there were people that did
• 1:12:22
  it. Like, that's what it was.
• 1:12:23
  It was an occupational. Made them famous.
• 1:12:26
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:12:28
  Now, you know, rightly or wrongly, it is what it is.
• 1:12:31
  You know what I mean? Like.
• 1:12:33
  It's again, it's one of those things that's is that
• 1:12:35
  appropriate behavior or well or or way of being for communities
• 1:12:40
  to survive in modern Dimes? No, no it's not.
• 1:12:46
  You don't go steal and raid and and stuff from other people.
• 1:12:50
  'S their home life, right? Making sure that the building's
• 1:12:55
  paid for, making sure that the children have a place to sleep.
• 1:12:59
  Making sure that there's firewood stocked up for the
• 1:13:01
  winter, you know? Food with food all the.
• 1:13:07
  Different aspects of existing and living in what you have to
• 1:13:13
  work with and how you process and progress through life,
• 1:13:19
  providing for sacrificing for how you live your life.
• 1:13:24
  Again, it falls back to are you doing something that is deemed
• 1:13:29
  honorable in in the eyes of the gods?
• 1:13:32
  And it also has a bit of perspective to do if you don't
• 1:13:37
  look at Loki the same way that I look at Loki, we might have a
• 1:13:40
  couple of different views on what's deemed respectful in the
• 1:13:43
  eyes of Loki. And that's again hypothetical,
• 1:13:48
  you know? Yeah, yeah, that's a big thing
• 1:13:51
  too, right? Like, 'cause I don't know, I
• 1:13:54
  feel like the the modern American heathen Loki gets, Loki
• 1:14:04
  gets a lot of attention. Well, yeah, but like there's
• 1:14:07
  this, there's this divide, you know, Like I know people who
• 1:14:11
  have a very hard stance on Loki and that they will not
• 1:14:16
  incorporate or involve him in in in ritual affairs with the group
• 1:14:20
  because of reasons. And and then there's others
• 1:14:23
  where it's, you know, that they have their look on it and I and
• 1:14:25
  I see it from both sides, you know?
• 1:14:27
  I had. I had.
• 1:14:28
  He's. Down to it you have to into.
• 1:14:30
  Events where a Loki Vey was allowed on site and anything
• 1:14:36
  that need be done in in his presence at his sacred space
• 1:14:42
  within the community would be done there, you know.
• 1:14:45
  And the same thing was said with the Tier Vey and all of the
• 1:14:48
  other vey's of the gods that are scattered around amongst the
• 1:14:51
  events. But I've also been to events
• 1:14:53
  where we do not bring forth the names of deities of chaos or
• 1:15:00
  anarchy or mischief or or any foulness.
• 1:15:04
  And and they're like, well, why are you excluding some of the
• 1:15:07
  main parts of the story? Like you can't cherry pick?
• 1:15:12
  Like you can cherry pick on like what God you want to follow and
• 1:15:16
  why what God you choose and why. But you can't like cherry pick
• 1:15:21
  them being in your life or not. They feel like influence you in
• 1:15:27
  different ways at some point in time.
• 1:15:31
  Yeah, possibly right. I feel like there's a lot of
• 1:15:34
  that gets down to the respective groups custom or Thu.
• 1:15:41
  If you know law right like that's you know that's a thing
• 1:15:44
  that you you respect the law the custom of the Thu of that group
• 1:15:49
  that tribe that Kindred whatever.
• 1:15:51
  If you're going to align with them then if the if the if the
• 1:15:55
  law of the tribe is that there is no Loki veneration as a tribe
• 1:15:59
  then that's the law. If right exactly.
• 1:16:05
  I mean, so again, it goes back to the there's some nuance,
• 1:16:09
  there's some similarities across Heathenry that people can can
• 1:16:12
  jive with, you know, and and and feel at home with.
• 1:16:15
  And then there's other things that when you get down to the
• 1:16:17
  granularity of individual hearths, clans, tribes, kinders,
• 1:16:22
  whatever you wanna call them, when it when it gets down to the
• 1:16:25
  real heart of Heathenry, 'cause I feel like, you know, we talk
• 1:16:30
  about. Where?
• 1:16:32
  We really shines it shines at the hearth level, the the the
• 1:16:35
  grassroots level right in the homes with the people then
• 1:16:39
  that's absolute their their sovereignty with that.
• 1:16:41
  Like you don't mess with other people's way of doing things.
• 1:16:45
  If that's their way of doing things, then that's.
• 1:16:47
  You know, I'll give you an example of that in in my
• 1:16:50
  personal home, I have a something that was gifted to me
• 1:16:54
  many years ago. It's it's a section of driftwood
• 1:16:56
  that was painted in in the form of Fenrir.
• 1:17:02
  And it had a, a, a, a binding around it just like rope, rope
• 1:17:08
  tatters or else. But I redid these bindings with
• 1:17:12
  brass cable, and I have to recognize that I am somebody who
• 1:17:20
  has his own pieces of personal chaos.
• 1:17:23
  And you know, in the stories, the Pheneris wolf is that
• 1:17:27
  representation. So I have this bound pheneris
• 1:17:32
  effigy in my house, but it's in my garage.
• 1:17:37
  It's not within my living space, It's a part of my life.
• 1:17:41
  But it's like I have to keep it a bit to the side.
• 1:17:45
  I have to draw the line of where where those energies need to
• 1:17:49
  lie. I recognize the fact that I have
• 1:17:55
  that kind of influence upon my life.
• 1:17:56
  And I could say the same thing, you know, You know, Thor would
• 1:18:04
  have certain instances where he's had some kind of reflection
• 1:18:08
  on, you know, the instances that happened in my life.
• 1:18:11
  And you can you can go back and look and say, hey, this just
• 1:18:15
  makes sense. I've experienced the gods in
• 1:18:17
  many different ways throughout my life.
• 1:18:20
  How did I keep them in my life? But how do they also have their
• 1:18:23
  space within my life? What's their piece?
• 1:18:28
  I did a class last year at ECT, kind of an open discussion on
• 1:18:32
  the essence of the gods and I described it as if you could put
• 1:18:36
  a piece of energy inside a 20 sided dice and each side of that
• 1:18:43
  dice was an individual attribute that describes or emulates what
• 1:18:47
  that God is and is about. And then all of those facets
• 1:18:53
  face in to have a piece of that inner energy within the D20.
• 1:18:59
  So my head, that's kind of how I visually wrap my head around.
• 1:19:02
  It roll for heathenry just. Roll for heathen and we're
• 1:19:06
  rolling it When? What are we going to land on
• 1:19:08
  today? Let's hope we don't botch this
• 1:19:10
  one. Yeah, one of those interesting
• 1:19:16
  thought bubbles that you pull out of space.
• 1:19:18
  Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. And then and that's the beauty
• 1:19:21
  of it, you know, I feel like there's this multifaceted aspect
• 1:19:28
  of things and you can you can I I I watched the, I don't know if
• 1:19:31
  it was on a on a on a podcast episode of yours, but it was
• 1:19:35
  like a clip that you had shared about you know Heathenry and
• 1:19:39
  that it's like you know you're on this path and then you've got
• 1:19:42
  multiple lanes that you can be in or you can get off.
• 1:19:46
  Yeah. Yeah, you know, and I love that
• 1:19:49
  analogy. One of my one of my guests
• 1:19:50
  actually said it better. Then there's a clip of this out
• 1:19:54
  there somewhere, he says it your life experiences are much like
• 1:19:58
  the the roots of egosil. We're all going through life
• 1:20:02
  trying to climb the trunk of EGOSIL making our way up the
• 1:20:06
  tree. Like the roots of Igdrasil, we
• 1:20:09
  come from so many different places.
• 1:20:11
  Our paths to this faith have been twisted and turned in, and
• 1:20:17
  we nobody has the same story. Everyone's different.
• 1:20:21
  We are all the roots of Igdrasil trying to get to the trouble.
• 1:20:26
  Like. When we start intertwining the
• 1:20:31
  roots of the tree and our paths start intersecting with each
• 1:20:34
  other, their Frith can begin. Right.
• 1:20:40
  That's the I look at Frith as like a web because weird is a is
• 1:20:44
  a thing. Obviously.
• 1:20:45
  We we we, we are like, you're weaving your own threads and
• 1:20:48
  weird. I'm weaving my own threads and
• 1:20:51
  weird, and everybody's weaving their own individual threads of
• 1:20:54
  weird. When individuals interact with
• 1:20:57
  one another what ends up happening is those threads
• 1:21:00
  become intertwined. We we are now weaving our
• 1:21:04
  threads together and what happens is the the the web of
• 1:21:09
  weird becomes that much more intricate and in those
• 1:21:12
  intricacies and through that weaving we build bonds of of of
• 1:21:17
  connection. So Frith is being woven.
• 1:21:19
  I look at Frith as a web. So the Frith web you, the, the
• 1:21:24
  more you weave, yeah. The more you weave, the stronger
• 1:21:29
  it gets it. It almost becomes like an
• 1:21:30
  impenetrable, like armor in a way.
• 1:21:34
  So the stronger your bonds of Frith are, the less in the less
• 1:21:38
  likely damage could happen to like destroy that that that web
• 1:21:44
  you know through. Experience.
• 1:21:47
  Just to where if you look at it that way and and your your web
• 1:21:53
  of Frith and your web of weird and the interactions of your
• 1:21:56
  life you come across. Where you've had prior
• 1:21:58
  interactions that have come along beside you in the current
• 1:22:03
  time and and been that shield like your interactions from
• 1:22:09
  before may have influenced whether you have somebody having
• 1:22:14
  your back or not defending you. When you're not in the room
• 1:22:18
  doing what's right by you when you're not there to stand for it
• 1:22:20
  to begin with. You know and that that
• 1:22:26
  interwoven web of people looking out for you.
• 1:22:31
  It's like we're all going to the same path.
• 1:22:33
  We're we're all we're all going to the same destination.
• 1:22:36
  We're trying to get there. And when that web is woven
• 1:22:42
  tightly and the more interactions that you have the
• 1:22:46
  more connections, the stronger that bond becomes and the
• 1:22:52
  stronger your or log your way of being becomes.
• 1:22:57
  It's simply just your way. Which again reflects back to are
• 1:23:02
  you living a way that's deemed that would be deemed honorable?
• 1:23:07
  Yeah. Because again you're pouring
• 1:23:09
  into that. You're pouring into that or log,
• 1:23:11
  you know that that that that that sort of primal layer that
• 1:23:14
  you gotten dealt. You know you were you were you
• 1:23:17
  inherited that through your through your Osalo.
• 1:23:22
  Through through the. Yeah.
• 1:23:23
  Through yeah. You know Osala like the whole
• 1:23:26
  root system, right that that taproot, if you want to call it
• 1:23:30
  that, but you're still feeding it to this day.
• 1:23:33
  It's like, yeah. Absolutely.
• 1:23:34
  Just because it was what it was doesn't mean that it is what
• 1:23:37
  it's going to be. It's.
• 1:23:40
  My my personal path to Heathenry was this twisted long back Rd.
• 1:23:44
  through the states from Delaware to Virginia.
• 1:23:46
  You know that was my Rd. IT we can meet at the same
• 1:23:52
  destination, but we didn't come the same way.
• 1:23:58
  Yeah, yeah. We took different roads or
• 1:24:01
  different paths to get here. Right.
• 1:24:04
  See, I mean this is like this is, you know, this is a classic
• 1:24:06
  example, just, you know, right now obviously like you've been
• 1:24:08
  doing the locking horns about two.
• 1:24:11
  Years now 2 1/2. Years.
• 1:24:13
  And I've been doing Midgard musing since, you know, well, we
• 1:24:16
  just passed six years a couple of months ago, you know, and
• 1:24:20
  it's like you're out there doing your thing and now you know,
• 1:24:23
  we're doing our thing and I'm doing mine and this and that.
• 1:24:26
  But here we are in a way. Our threads have, you know, over
• 1:24:32
  long distance and again it doesn't.
• 1:24:34
  It's not to take away from the the understanding of of true
• 1:24:38
  Frith weaving, right being in person.
• 1:24:40
  But again, this is one of those examples like a, a, a, a, a
• 1:24:44
  sense of that. It's it's modern, modern take on
• 1:24:49
  it would be is is your networking.
• 1:24:51
  You're constantly networking constantly building connections
• 1:24:55
  with people within the community like and and that's you know
• 1:25:01
  it's community that's that's that that can be considered a
• 1:25:04
  tough one. OK.
• 1:25:05
  The people that I met through ECT, you know 200 different
• 1:25:11
  Heathens from across the States and and and we don't stay in
• 1:25:15
  constant contact but we know of each other.
• 1:25:19
  We see what each other is doing with their lives, trials and
• 1:25:23
  tribulations, whatever they post on social media, because that's
• 1:25:27
  a tool in place to keep in touch in some fashion, but it's not
• 1:25:33
  where you build Frith. Right.
• 1:25:38
  You know, the Frith was built, the Kinships was built, the
• 1:25:42
  friendships were built through the interactions.
• 1:25:45
  In person, yes. I'm glad to hear other people,
• 1:25:50
  you know, realizing this and advocating and and teaching this
• 1:25:56
  concept more because again, I feel, you know, the more that
• 1:26:01
  new people come into this, the more they're going to get this
• 1:26:04
  idea of, well, I'm just because I believe in the same gods as
• 1:26:07
  you that you're now my brother and sister.
• 1:26:08
  No, no. No.
• 1:26:10
  That ain't it. Like you.
• 1:26:12
  You say that and and I think of I'm real picky about who calls
• 1:26:17
  me brother. Same, you know.
• 1:26:20
  You haven't earned that, right? You're not my blood and you're
• 1:26:23
  not who I've chosen. And that's that's key.
• 1:26:27
  It's brothers kind of have to choose each other.
• 1:26:30
  The same thing can be said for the for the ladies.
• 1:26:32
  The sisters will choose each other, and I think that's just
• 1:26:36
  something that happens naturally through personal interaction,
• 1:26:41
  you know? That kind of bond can't be built
• 1:26:44
  online. No.
• 1:26:46
  Just there's no way. There's no, no again the but it
• 1:26:51
  it it, it goes back to Frith, right.
• 1:26:53
  If I don't feel like you've got my back and I've got yours and
• 1:26:56
  there's there isn't this true understanding of reciprocity, of
• 1:27:00
  obligation, of responsibility of trust, all of these things that
• 1:27:04
  you know, then then no. We we we can't share in titles
• 1:27:09
  of kinship to one another. And I'm sure you know if you if
• 1:27:12
  you have any presence online. I'm sure you've been given the
• 1:27:14
  thanks, brother. I love this shit, brother.
• 1:27:16
  Right. Like you've been given that.
• 1:27:17
  And I do too. And like.
• 1:27:18
  There's there's the the common slang that it that it is used at
• 1:27:22
  right. But when you are directed as,
• 1:27:29
  yeah, when you are approached as or.
• 1:27:33
  Man, dude, I had this guy one time.
• 1:27:38
  And I know this guy. Like, interpersonally, Like,
• 1:27:41
  we've we've been to events, we've we've drank together,
• 1:27:45
  we've we've shared an ritual together.
• 1:27:47
  You know, like we've been at the same place doing heathen things
• 1:27:51
  together with one another in person.
• 1:27:53
  But like, he this this one particular time at an event, he
• 1:27:58
  is just like, I want to call you brother and this and that.
• 1:28:02
  And I like, I kind of, like, took a step back and I'm like,
• 1:28:06
  what makes you think that I'm your brother?
• 1:28:10
  Right. And what makes you think that I
• 1:28:12
  want to call you brother? And he was like, well, man, I
• 1:28:15
  like your content. I think you're a great teacher,
• 1:28:18
  this and that. I'm like, all right, cool.
• 1:28:19
  Thank you. Like first of all like I'm not
• 1:28:21
  to take away from it but it was it was a moment of like what
• 1:28:24
  makes that measure up to the responsibility the obligation
• 1:28:30
  and everything that a brother should exchange between.
• 1:28:33
  You know what I mean? Maybe mentor or or like,
• 1:28:37
  whatever. Like there's there's other
• 1:28:38
  things that I was like but and and I I told him, I had to tell
• 1:28:42
  him like I want you to understand why.
• 1:28:44
  I'm not offended by you wanting to call me that.
• 1:28:48
  I think it's a a high. Honor, I'm actually kind of
• 1:28:51
  impressed and respects the fact that you would approach me about
• 1:28:54
  it. Right.
• 1:28:55
  However, think about what you're saying and realize that the
• 1:28:58
  ramifications the everything that comes with such a thing.
• 1:29:01
  And don't think about it so lightly just because you're
• 1:29:04
  enamored with somebody that you think you're awesome or this or
• 1:29:07
  that. Like.
• 1:29:09
  I I was fortunate to to grow up with a younger brother two years
• 1:29:13
  younger than me and an older brother 10 years older than me.
• 1:29:17
  And and I was given the opportunity to see and
• 1:29:23
  experience what I think, what I know a brother to be.
• 1:29:31
  You know the my younger brother lives 3 1/2 hours away from me.
• 1:29:38
  He calls me, I'm there. I'm on the road right now.
• 1:29:45
  How many people can I choose to to bestow that amount of trust
• 1:29:54
  into who were you that I would bring you into my life and bear
• 1:30:00
  you this burden if you would? This comes with
• 1:30:04
  responsibilities, obligations. These responsibilities are are
• 1:30:09
  both earned and and honored to have.
• 1:30:14
  I'm honored that I have people that act like my brothers that
• 1:30:23
  would do what my brothers would do for me, that would do what I
• 1:30:29
  would do for my blood. You know, there's blood family,
• 1:30:34
  and then there's chosen family. And sometimes I tell you what,
• 1:30:38
  that chosen family earns a stronger bond than your blood
• 1:30:45
  and you have to be able to separate the two concepts.
• 1:30:50
  But you have to earn that title. You have to be worthy of that
• 1:30:55
  title. And the same thing goes with you
• 1:30:58
  know, the ladies is is sisters can be taken very seriously.
• 1:31:04
  Those bonds are strong and they are powerful.
• 1:31:10
  It's it's that that level of of connecting with someone is is
• 1:31:18
  the strongest shield you could ever have is the strongest
• 1:31:22
  weapon you could ever wield, you know.
• 1:31:27
  Yeah, yeah. It goes back to those, you know,
• 1:31:30
  those the, the the old world views of of things.
• 1:31:32
  All right. Family was you didn't have, your
• 1:31:34
  family you didn't have. You know what I mean?
• 1:31:38
  If, if you were, if you were isolated, if you were outlawed,
• 1:31:42
  if you were, you know, kept away from that inter tightly
• 1:31:48
  interwoven group, you were just about as good as dead because
• 1:31:52
  nobody would come to help you. Well, and and and let's be
• 1:31:56
  honest, this the same kind of concept you see all over the
• 1:32:00
  place. You see it in motorcycle
• 1:32:05
  chapters, You see it in inner city gangs.
• 1:32:09
  You see it in prison, you know, it's that kind of structure is
• 1:32:14
  everywhere, you know, and it boils down to a simple facet of
• 1:32:19
  humanity. And that's we're looking out for
• 1:32:21
  each other. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:32:26
  I should be able to know like if if I'm having a rough time, that
• 1:32:30
  I have people that are going to have my back and then vice
• 1:32:32
  versa, right? If they're having a rough time,
• 1:32:34
  they should be able to rely on me.
• 1:32:36
  It's, it's it's not about what can I get from people, It's what
• 1:32:39
  can we give to one another? Reciprocity, right?
• 1:32:44
  Yeah. It and and and the the old Norse
• 1:32:48
  adage it. You know a gift for a gift.
• 1:32:51
  Yes that's concept right there falls into that aspect of
• 1:32:58
  brotherhood and sisterhood and the bonds that you build.
• 1:33:01
  I heard one one person say on that I came across that it can
• 1:33:06
  be considered a debt. I am extending to you a part of
• 1:33:11
  me and for that you are in. You have the same level of debt
• 1:33:17
  to me as a piece of community that at the end of the day that
• 1:33:24
  that debt has to be weighed out. Yeah.
• 1:33:29
  No, 100%. And again, you know, we, we, we
• 1:33:32
  look at such terms, debt obligation right there for some
• 1:33:35
  reason in modern times it gets a almost like a negative
• 1:33:38
  connotation associated with it to be though not in the ancient,
• 1:33:43
  not not in the, not in that context and not in those world
• 1:33:45
  views. It was, you know, I've been
• 1:33:48
  given this opportunity now I am in your debt to repay the gift
• 1:33:53
  that you've given to me and and there was honor to that, you
• 1:33:57
  know. Yeah.
• 1:33:58
  Definitely. It's like the honor system.
• 1:34:00
  You know I can't pay for this right now.
• 1:34:03
  No, that's fine. Just get me when you get when
• 1:34:05
  you got it. That sort of thing.
• 1:34:07
  But it was it was realized that if you didn't pay the shield, if
• 1:34:11
  you didn't pay the debt, then you were without honor.
• 1:34:14
  You know. So you're like you're everything
• 1:34:15
  was honor based. You were.
• 1:34:17
  Your honor was on the line, and that meant something.
• 1:34:20
  The honor in the scenario meant more than the money, right?
• 1:34:27
  Yeah 'cause your reputation. Doesn't have money anymore.
• 1:34:31
  Yeah, like everything was hinged on that.
• 1:34:33
  Like you were you were you know your reputation.
• 1:34:36
  Gefrain. I'm sure you've heard that
• 1:34:38
  right. Everything was on the line.
• 1:34:42
  So yeah, dude, this has been really fun.
• 1:34:47
  I know we're we're probably right around that time, but the
• 1:34:51
  the the whole gamut that we ran through.
• 1:34:55
  I mean everything from you know finding you know Modern
• 1:34:59
  Heathenry and it's it's applications now with with the
• 1:35:01
  HAVA mall and and finding context and and how it can be
• 1:35:04
  applied. I feel like we really touched on
• 1:35:07
  good, touched on good ground with that plus everything.
• 1:35:10
  Just going back to the whole, you know, what are you doing?
• 1:35:14
  The grassroots right? You know, preserving honor,
• 1:35:18
  living honorably, you know, living in ways that honor,
• 1:35:22
  whether it's, you know, your your perceptions of the gods or
• 1:35:25
  your ancestors, right? Living in a way that reflects
• 1:35:29
  positively, honorably representing this whole thing in
• 1:35:34
  a way that other people can be like wow, whether or.
• 1:35:37
  Not if if I wasn't say anybody that that that's looking to
• 1:35:43
  educate themselves on this set of stories.
• 1:35:49
  The the just kind of fall back on the conversation with my
• 1:35:53
  mother was a difficult one. I said mom listen I grew up with
• 1:35:57
  this set of stories. I just don't believe these
• 1:36:01
  stories as much as I believe these stories.
• 1:36:10
  And but you have to educate yourself on the topic before you
• 1:36:18
  can have that conversation. Every heathen I know has a stack
• 1:36:22
  of books that they've only gotten through one or two of
• 1:36:24
  them. You know, there's always more to
• 1:36:26
  read. There's always more to learn.
• 1:36:29
  I've got 10 books up here I haven't touched, but I have
• 1:36:32
  them. You know, hell man, how many,
• 1:36:35
  how many heathens do you know that don't even really know the
• 1:36:38
  Eddas? And I mean, and that's like
• 1:36:41
  almost basic stuff. I remember talking.
• 1:36:43
  Like, right next to me I have a I have a couple of printouts of
• 1:36:47
  of the Voluspa, The Wise Woman's Prophecy, that that piece,
• 1:36:52
  right. The Hava Mall.
• 1:36:54
  Honestly, diving into, it's been a year and a half process and
• 1:36:58
  I'm not done with it. You know what?
• 1:37:00
  And quite honestly, I don't foresee myself ever being done
• 1:37:03
  with it because I will always come back to it, crack it open,
• 1:37:07
  dive into the stanza, you know, open my mind up, you know,
• 1:37:11
  entomology of words. Where did this word come from?
• 1:37:14
  Who translated it? What were they trying to say?
• 1:37:16
  Really, you know, how does it apply today?
• 1:37:21
  You know? But if I was to say that there
• 1:37:27
  are three pieces of text to dive into the the Eddas 100%.
• 1:37:37
  The prose and the poetic, the habamas specifically, the
• 1:37:44
  velospa specifically. But as far the ettas, the
• 1:37:47
  Icelandic sagas, the Icelandic sagas are a tale of a people
• 1:37:52
  that's their family history. That's the tale of of the kings
• 1:37:58
  that that went to war against two and what fathers said no to
• 1:38:02
  the king and what the sons did on their behest in stories of
• 1:38:07
  families, how they lived, how they sailed, what they did with
• 1:38:10
  their lives. The the sagas is like core
• 1:38:15
  because that's the history of the people.
• 1:38:19
  Yeah. And you have to take that into
• 1:38:21
  context. You can't just like I said,
• 1:38:23
  cherry pick the Viking out of it.
• 1:38:26
  Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
• 1:38:28
  And there's so much even outside of, I mean, you've got, you've
• 1:38:33
  got regional folklore that that that establishes beliefs for
• 1:38:39
  people. I mean, there's the way, you
• 1:38:42
  know, the way that the, you know, Saxons did things were
• 1:38:45
  different than the way, you know, the Danes ended up doing
• 1:38:49
  things. Then the Swedes and then the
• 1:38:51
  Norwegians and then the Icelanders and then.
• 1:38:53
  And I'm not going to say that I am all crazy astute on the
• 1:38:58
  history. I couldn't tell you everything
• 1:39:00
  that happened and when and recited off to you.
• 1:39:03
  But you know, I've done dove into it.
• 1:39:05
  I've read on it, I have some understanding, you know.
• 1:39:10
  But like I say like that's part of the whole like how really how
• 1:39:13
  granularity are you going to get, How much information do you
• 1:39:15
  want to to explore? And and and and and let's be
• 1:39:21
  fair. We are so blessed in the common
• 1:39:22
  day and age to have Google. Yeah, right.
• 1:39:28
  Barnes and Noble, go and you know, you know a book.
• 1:39:31
  You want go and order it. You know, amass a library.
• 1:39:35
  I mean, you. You can have a library and and
• 1:39:37
  and read nothing and and you've accomplished nothing but a
• 1:39:40
  collection of books. But if you get into them and you
• 1:39:42
  start to read them, and you start to understand them, and
• 1:39:45
  you invite Odin into your life for a little bit and expand your
• 1:39:49
  knowledge, educate yourself on it.
• 1:39:54
  Know more about it. That will carry you farther than
• 1:40:00
  than anything else will. Because that will introduce you
• 1:40:03
  into so many other stories and so many other things that you
• 1:40:06
  need to try to figure out and ask questions about and learn
• 1:40:09
  more about. Yeah.
• 1:40:13
  Also I would say that the, the, the act of doing something, even
• 1:40:20
  if you don't know what it is exactly that you're doing, do
• 1:40:25
  that right. I feel like there's plenty of
• 1:40:28
  people out here doing, you know, it's better to do something than
• 1:40:33
  to do nothing, ultimately. And I feel like there's a plenty
• 1:40:35
  of people out here that are just waiting to learn more before
• 1:40:41
  they do something about it. I I, I, you know, put it put,
• 1:40:45
  put your get your feet on the ground, get your hands in the
• 1:40:48
  dirt, get out here and do something you know, and then
• 1:40:52
  you're going to learn as you go. But really the the lesson is in
• 1:40:56
  the doing. You know you can read everything
• 1:40:59
  you want, but if you're. Not I have an I have an example
• 1:41:02
  for you actually of of that specific instance I did this God
• 1:41:08
  plank 6 foot kind of wooden carving on a piece of two by six
• 1:41:12
  or two by 12 did this you know this wooden engraving you know
• 1:41:17
  painting and I took it to one of these events and because I was
• 1:41:21
  in charge of the Tier V at this event that time and this piece
• 1:41:25
  of art that I did was was recognized and appreciated and
• 1:41:29
  they have actually came to me and said do you want to invoke
• 1:41:33
  tear for the main ritual. We would like you to do that and
• 1:41:39
  I I, I I had not done this before but they're like what you
• 1:41:48
  have put into this represents what you can bring to the main
• 1:41:54
  ritual. So we would like for you to give
• 1:41:56
  it the attempt and you know for the rest of the day I kind of
• 1:41:59
  wrote down you know and and and tried to figure out how I was
• 1:42:02
  going to do this and what I was going to say.
• 1:42:05
  But to to to meet the the design structure of the ritual but talk
• 1:42:12
  about the the, the, the feeling of being honored, being
• 1:42:17
  recognized and being invited to do.
• 1:42:21
  Yes. That's that's the lesson.
• 1:42:25
  Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, you had to show up, you know what I
• 1:42:28
  mean? Yeah.
• 1:42:29
  It's like, oh, yeah, it ain't it ain't just me, you know It ain't
• 1:42:33
  just blowing smoke, right. This isn't just a a show like,
• 1:42:39
  oh, wow. You know, now I'm being, I'm
• 1:42:41
  being challenged to do right. Not just be about it, not just
• 1:42:47
  talk about it, but the be about it and.
• 1:42:49
  And and there's a couple of stanzas in the Hava mall right
• 1:42:53
  there that say you don't know what you're worth until you're
• 1:42:57
  tested. More or less, Yeah, it's rough,
• 1:43:01
  Rough, rough. Rough, you know, wrap around,
• 1:43:05
  you know. Well, there's the, the, the
• 1:43:06
  whole thing too, right? Like even if you're not, you
• 1:43:10
  know and there's a several stanzas that that take up this
• 1:43:13
  concept of you know, just because you're you're not 100%
• 1:43:20
  like just you know, the blind can still ride a horse, the the
• 1:43:24
  the deaf can still swim or steer a boat, right?
• 1:43:27
  I mean, like just because you have a thing that prevents you
• 1:43:30
  from doing one thing doesn't mean you're useless or
• 1:43:32
  worthless. You have a pen.
• 1:43:34
  You have a way. You have a.
• 1:43:36
  You have a. Yeah, there's exactly.
• 1:43:37
  You have something there. You.
• 1:43:39
  Carries worth. And it's a matter of finding
• 1:43:44
  where that is, right? Not everybody can be the goatee.
• 1:43:47
  Not everybody can be. Right, absolutely.
• 1:43:50
  This or the that. Like sometimes you just.
• 1:43:51
  Need I don't want to be the goatee that's that's that's the
• 1:43:55
  responsibility that I know that I am just not prepared for you
• 1:44:00
  know and you can and and and. That's good to know that.
• 1:44:04
  You have to know your limitations, but you also have
• 1:44:07
  to know where you can grow. Like you don't want to take the
• 1:44:11
  responsibility of Goti, you don't want to take the
• 1:44:14
  responsibility of of High Priest or High Priestess or whatever.
• 1:44:17
  And that's that's fine, but you have worth, and that worth will
• 1:44:24
  develop and contribute to the community in some fashion.
• 1:44:29
  Yeah. And that's where it's all about,
• 1:44:31
  you know, is, is finding where that is, you know, and you can't
• 1:44:34
  again experience that online long distance.
• 1:44:36
  It's how do you know the people in your community, what they can
• 1:44:39
  offer? Unless you're in the community
• 1:44:41
  talking with these people, right?
• 1:44:44
  Interacting with the right. You know, you can be the best
• 1:44:48
  beer maker, meat maker. You know, you can be the best
• 1:44:52
  seamstress, the best blacksmith, the best.
• 1:44:55
  Whatever. Well, great If I just hear about
• 1:44:58
  you, well, where's your worth being proven?
• 1:45:01
  It's it's inconsequential. Well, let's get together and
• 1:45:05
  let's, you know, show me what you got right.
• 1:45:07
  You can prove your worth there in that way, and the next thing
• 1:45:09
  you know, bam, you you're providing all of the utensils,
• 1:45:12
  all of the the tack, you know for the this, whatever the case
• 1:45:15
  may be, you've got, you've got a place, you've got worth, you've
• 1:45:19
  proven your worth in that capacity, you know.
• 1:45:23
  So I got into both as a result of going to East Coast thing.
• 1:45:28
  Honestly when when I went there the first year, it was just like
• 1:45:31
  awe inspiring and seeing everything that that can be
• 1:45:34
  obtained in a way. I met a guy who carved horns for
• 1:45:40
  a living. I'm like oh, I have a couple of
• 1:45:42
  horns. What do you, what tools are you
• 1:45:44
  using? I can do that.
• 1:45:46
  I can make my own designs and I kind of got into carving horns
• 1:45:49
  and for eight years that's a little just side hobby,
• 1:45:51
  something that I do for personal enjoyment.
• 1:45:54
  It's a hobby that gives me a little bit of income.
• 1:45:57
  You know, the same thing to be fit for is I've been making Mead
• 1:46:02
  and learning how to brew Mead, and I've been doing that for
• 1:46:05
  eight years, nine years. And that's been a process of
• 1:46:09
  learning and and developing skills and, you know, making
• 1:46:12
  something of yourself of worth. You know, Craftsman, plain and
• 1:46:18
  simple. Every single one of your Viking
• 1:46:24
  ancestors was a Craftsman of some kind first, whether they be
• 1:46:29
  a farmer, a blacksmith, a ferry or a Fletcher.
• 1:46:33
  A Bowyer name? A job they had to have, a skill
• 1:46:38
  to provide to the community. Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 1:46:43
  That's life. That was life back then.
• 1:46:45
  You couldn't just run the Walmart?
• 1:46:46
  That's life now. That's life now, mechanics.
• 1:46:50
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're right.
• 1:46:53
  That's, that's life. Now the, the, the, the, the
• 1:46:55
  definitions are different. You know, construction workers,
• 1:46:59
  mechanics, retail operators, everybody has a skill set.
• 1:47:06
  How you apply it in your life is is is of your own doing.
• 1:47:10
  What you do with your life and how you apply your skill set and
• 1:47:13
  and how you carry on is is of your own doing.
• 1:47:17
  Yeah. But there's not much difference.
• 1:47:20
  We we say it's like if you were 1500 years ago, living then and
• 1:47:26
  there in those times and those conditions, what would your
• 1:47:30
  skill set be? How would you live?
• 1:47:31
  What would you be doing with your life?
• 1:47:34
  And we're talking realistic. No, not everybody's going to
• 1:47:36
  Viking because that's not that, that's that's a job description.
• 1:47:39
  That's an after school activity, you know, hey, I'm getting
• 1:47:46
  together with the guys. We're going on a raid this
• 1:47:48
  weekend, you know, and be back in a few months, right?
• 1:47:52
  Yeah, that's a long week. Right.
• 1:47:56
  But it's the same, you know, realistically in a modern day,
• 1:47:59
  it's the same kind of concept, you know, Hey, I'm going camping
• 1:48:03
  with the guys for the weekend or I'm taking the kids to the go
• 1:48:09
  Kart truck. You know, it's like your
• 1:48:11
  contribution of skill set, what you are doing for your in house
• 1:48:19
  community, those that you live with on a daily basis, those
• 1:48:23
  that you work with on a daily basis, your extended friends,
• 1:48:28
  your extended community, how do you interact with them?
• 1:48:30
  What are you contributing? What's your skill set?
• 1:48:33
  What makes you worthy? What makes you valuable?
• 1:48:36
  What makes you a necessity? Yeah.
• 1:48:40
  Yeah. And and I think that's, that's
• 1:48:44
  the biggest piece right there, is like, what makes you a
• 1:48:48
  necessity? Why do I need you in my life?
• 1:48:52
  Yeah. What are you doing to
• 1:48:53
  contribute? I think is a big is is is the
• 1:48:55
  take away right 'cause it's it's not just I oh, I've done I've
• 1:48:58
  I've shown you what I can do and then now it's easy street all
• 1:49:03
  the way out. No, man.
• 1:49:04
  It's a constant. It's it's it's it's ongoing
• 1:49:08
  right like you're you're not just it's not just a one and
• 1:49:11
  done sort of thing you had to prove it but now it's now it's
• 1:49:16
  up to maintaining it. The Frith thing is not something
• 1:49:19
  that you just win and keep forever.
• 1:49:22
  It's a maintenance thing as well.
• 1:49:24
  You have to maintain that integrity of the Frith web.
• 1:49:27
  Keep weaving those spreads, keep strengthening it.
• 1:49:29
  Yeah, I have. A, a a a brother of mine and and
• 1:49:33
  he's he's been close to me for you know going on 10 years,
• 1:49:37
  moved out of his house that they were renting in town, built a
• 1:49:42
  tiny house and live an hour and a half away at 2500 feet on the
• 1:49:46
  side of a mountain. I don't get to see him all the
• 1:49:49
  time like once every few months maybe right.
• 1:49:54
  But the web that we wove together is so strong that if he
• 1:49:59
  needs me, I'm driving. And you know what?
• 1:50:02
  In the Haba Mall, it says. The way to a friend's house is
• 1:50:05
  short, though the enemy lives closer.
• 1:50:08
  It's a longer path. Yeah, that's the first thing I
• 1:50:12
  thought of when you said that, you know, I have relationships
• 1:50:15
  like that and I'm talking about people that are, you know, six
• 1:50:19
  hours away from me in Appalachia.
• 1:50:23
  If push came to shove and I needed help, I knew, you know,
• 1:50:28
  and like what? You know, vice versa.
• 1:50:29
  They needed me. Like we know who to call on.
• 1:50:33
  Yeah, that they're this can make.
• 1:50:34
  A difference? Well.
• 1:50:36
  Right. I like.
• 1:50:37
  I might not be able to show up personally, but we can make
• 1:50:40
  something happen. Exactly.
• 1:50:43
  Exactly. There's that reliance, You know,
• 1:50:46
  I know who I can count on. They know who they can count on.
• 1:50:51
  But all that had to happen in person.
• 1:50:54
  You can't do that online. Nope.
• 1:51:00
  Absolutely. Well, dude, I think this is a
• 1:51:03
  great man. I'm going to, I think we're
• 1:51:04
  going to wrap it up here so much, so much, so much.
• 1:51:08
  Good conversation tonight. I'm I'm so glad that you you
• 1:51:11
  were able to come on here and and share some of what you're
• 1:51:13
  doing, you know, locally but also on your podcast.
• 1:51:18
  Honor to be able to connect with you and actually make this
• 1:51:20
  happen, and hopefully we'll be able to further the connection
• 1:51:23
  later on in in our existence, in our paths.
• 1:51:27
  Yeah, absolutely. You know, like I say, you know,
• 1:51:29
  you're not too terribly far from me.
• 1:51:30
  And you know, who knows? But what might happen where we
• 1:51:33
  meet in person and lock a horn or two together, You know, you
• 1:51:37
  never know. Sit down, have a conversation.
• 1:51:40
  Share a horn. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:51:43
  We'll we'll keep in touch, man. I I enjoyed this.
• 1:51:47
  So you know, real quick before we do wrap things up, I will
• 1:51:50
  touch base with you offline after we're done recording.
• 1:51:54
  But for anybody that has listened and watched this
• 1:51:57
  episode, that wants to find out more about you and locking horns
• 1:52:02
  and and all that, where where can people find you?
• 1:52:06
  Locking Horns is on Facebook. Locking Horns Podcast on
• 1:52:11
  Facebook. It's on Instagram.
• 1:52:16
  I have uploaded audio files to Spotify and we are also on
• 1:52:22
  YouTube. That was kind of the main part
• 1:52:24
  and you know start So Locking Horns podcast is is found on a
• 1:52:27
  variety of of platforms and it's it's not something that I am
• 1:52:33
  100% consistent with. I don't have a schedule that I
• 1:52:37
  meet, but when the opportunity arises and I can have a guest
• 1:52:41
  and we can record it and we can have a good conversation and I
• 1:52:44
  can share that. That's really what it's about.
• 1:52:47
  Yeah, quality over quantity, right?
• 1:52:53
  Yeah, Well, all of your stuff will be linked down in the
• 1:52:55
  description for the viewers on Patreon that are watching this,
• 1:52:58
  but also for the listeners on the audio platforms, it's going
• 1:53:01
  to be LinkedIn the in the podcast show notes.
• 1:53:03
  So you know my listeners on Spotify, Matt is here as well as
• 1:53:08
  locking horns. So all of his stuff is going to
• 1:53:10
  be LinkedIn, the show notes. Do be sure to check them out.
• 1:53:13
  Show your support in any way that you can.
• 1:53:15
  You know, follow him on a social, subscribe to his stuff.
• 1:53:18
  Just show support in any way that you can, if you like what
• 1:53:21
  you heard today. And yeah, maybe we can do
• 1:53:24
  another episode. I mean, my, my, my schedule is
• 1:53:26
  open for future stuff too. I'm actually not having you back
• 1:53:31
  sometime. So yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll
• 1:53:33
  keep that. We'll keep that road open, open
• 1:53:38
  and stuff. We'll, we'll we'll keep the
• 1:53:39
  weeds worn down a bit on that one.
• 1:53:42
  So thank you Matt for for being my guest this week.
• 1:53:47
  And yeah, absolutely man, thank you.
• 1:53:49
  And so for everybody else that's listening and watching, hope you
• 1:53:53
  all enjoyed it. If you do, like I mentioned
• 1:53:55
  earlier in the episode, show your support in any way that you
• 1:53:57
  can. Follow me on all my socials in
• 1:54:00
  the link tree link that's posted down here or over there or down
• 1:54:02
  below and check out Matt and Locking Horns podcast and show
• 1:54:06
  your support there as well. So thank you all so much for
• 1:54:09
  your support. Until we talk to each other
• 1:54:12
  again, may the gods continue to notice you, and may your
• 1:54:16
  ancestors smile upon you. We'll see you in the next one.