Latest / Open Tabs / 🎧 Can Victoria’s Secret still sell the fantasy?

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🎧 Can Victoria’s Secret still sell the fantasy? · Open Tabs

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, guys.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to today's edition of Open Tabs,
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: our twice-weekly conversation where we talk about the stories,
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: taking up space in our tabs, our feeds, and our brains.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Melissa.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Megan.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Emma.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: Hello.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, happy Tuesday.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like the big moment news,
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: cultural news coming out of this weekend was the Victoria's Secret fashion show.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is still full like 48 hours later
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: all over my TikTok in particular.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: I can't.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know why that is.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, you keep going.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Quick question at the top.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Did you guys watch?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Megan, did you watch?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like this time or in general?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: In the past and this year.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be a Victoria's Secret devotee.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: I loved Victoria's Secret, the store, and Pink.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was a teenager when Pink was introduced,
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: so that was really my jam, and I used to love watching this.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: I remember in college,
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I went to a watch party hosted by the on-campus Victoria's Secret Pink reps,
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: and there was food and drinks, and it was an influencer event before.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Influencer events were a thing.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very well-versed in the Victoria's Secret universe.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: I did not actually watch this one, but it was inescapable to me.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was everywhere.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's my whole feat as well.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Where did it air?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: YouTube and TikTok.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: You can watch it on YouTube, yeah.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't on broadcast?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: They, um, it's interesting.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: They really went all in on YouTube in particular this year.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we'll dive into that in a sec.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I used to, in college, like, my roommates would host watch parties, so I'd watch it there.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like it was very, like, it was the, like, I started my freshman year in 2015.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it was, like, Candice and, like, all the, Triana, like, the big models.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it was pretty iconic back then, but I didn't watch it.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: My sister, my, oh my gosh, I had to take a beat for her age.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: My 25-year-old sister.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: No, 26.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: She just turned 26.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: My 26-year-old sister watched it live.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like very excited about it.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I did not.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: But like I said, still, my algorithm does not care.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's serving me all the Victoria's Secret content.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I watched, alternately, I watched the Savannah Banana 2027.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Lineup announcement on YouTube whilst in the car driving back from a soccer tournament.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I overheard it as it was being consumed live.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Was that their, like, draft?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, them announcing the players for the upcoming season?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, they're announcing, like, the upcoming, like, teams, like, the schedule, the game schedule.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, got it.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really hilarious to hear it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it was...
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're just geniuses over there.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was on ESPN2, I think, and then it was on YouTube Live.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: And they had each team come up and each player,
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: a representative player would say where they're going
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: and all these people are reacting.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then they also have added now,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: which is so smart to build up the fandom of the less popular teams,
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or the newer teams, I should say.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: They have these games that are going to be at football stadiums where all the teams are.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they're in Orlando and whatever.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you could go to them and get exposure to all the different teams without having
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: to be like, okay, whatever.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then they mixed up who the headliners are.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: So the game that we did last year where it was the Savannah Bananas headlined
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: at Petco down in San Diego.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: The team that they played there was the Coconuts.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so now the Coconuts are going to be headlining that game.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of interesting to see how they're sort of like shifting
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: the fandoms around and all that.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, Emma, continue.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Back to Victoria's Secret.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Great segue from Savannah Bananas to Victoria's Secret.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so YouTube, like Megan said, was the primary live stream destination.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: So there were over 3 million live viewers, which I feel like is a pretty strong number.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then this is up from 2.5 million last year.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: So up by half a million live viewers.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: And creators were a major, major part of the show.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: So Alex Kassani,
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: she's like a supermodel in her own right, but she is very, very social media savvy.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: So she, I think, is also considered a creator.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: But they also had Quen Blackwell, who is like fully just a creator.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Gabby, I'm forgetting what her name is, another content creator.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: So they had mixed content creators mixed in with their models on the runway.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course the like,
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: The big headline coming out of it was that Kylie Jenner wore the fantasy bra.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: And she is arguably the ultimate creator, having been on our screens since she was 10 years old.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: And she wore, I think it's worth $50 million, the fantasy bra this year.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a total surprise.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: People did not know.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Not until she Like, they had a ton of smoke machines.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then, like, all of a sudden, she emerges
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: from the smoke.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's Kylie Jenner.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And this is quite the turn.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Traditionally, the fantasy bra has been reserved for Victoria's Secret angel vets.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's, like, the highest honor among Victoria's Secret models.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: And this was the first year it went to somebody who's not a model for them
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: and has never walked
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: in a show.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, why wasn't it Kendall?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: She wasn't in it at all this year.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys think it was offered to her first?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Kylie, I don't think it was.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Kylie, Megan sent it to me, did a whole vlog.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Did you watch it?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't watch it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: I watched it.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was interesting.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: It had, when I watched it this morning, 2.4 million views having been up for 15 hours.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, it's crushing.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: And probably by the end of today, we'll have more views than the actual show itself.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: But she said they approached her months ago.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: And she kept saying, how can you turn it down?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't turn it down.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't say no.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it made me wonder.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, is Kendall, like, was there tension?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because on Keeping Up is a lot of tension.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're all very territorial over their brands that they work with.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: And she kept repeating it constantly.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if was this, like, screw their relationship with Kendall.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think, no, I think it's fodder for the show.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think that the Kardashians know that people want to see them have fights with each other.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that Kendall probably did feel some type of way about this
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: and they're going to lean into that.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be an episode of the show where they're going to talk about this
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: and have a heart to heart about like,
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know, modeling and it being Kendall's thing.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: But like people have resurfaced a clip from Keeping Up With Kardashians
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: where Kylie was really little.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And Kendall was starting to model.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then Kylie put together a book of her pictures and was trying to show it to Kris.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And Kris was not interested.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is very much being framed as an underdog story
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: of little sister finally gets her time in the spotlight in a way that is
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: so calculated that as soon as I saw it all playing out,
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is an episode.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: They're at the point where they're scripting their plot lines and their conflicts
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: because I think they've seen what happens when they don't.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: They have very real conflict between Kourtney and Kim.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think they're trying to lean into the more surface level conflict
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: that they can resolve in the course of an episode like this.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Ugh.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Where do I begin?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Just in general, I think this show was just so expertly strategized for social media.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, Melissa brought in the Cinevana Bananas,
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: which seems unrelated,
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: but I think is so related in that when you're trying to create spectacle
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: for younger audiences, Oh, yeah.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'll click on text for the show Megan's talking about.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Leading up to this Sunday's big runway show,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: they had a YouTube series called Angels Among Us,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: and they went to malls, specifically malls.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: They were very specific in their branding that Victoria's Secret is coming
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: to scout girls at malls,
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: and they had open casting calls,
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: and And it was very like America's Next Top Model without the abusive challenges.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it was split up over six episodes and girls got eliminated each episode.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was down to the final two.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: And the winner was revealed when she...
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Stepped out onto the runway on Sunday, which is
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: really smart.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: It creates a cliffhanger and incentive buy-in to actually watch the live stream
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: because you kind of want to see who's going to win this.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was similar to the process for like Angels Among Us was similar to what I saw in
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: the Cat's Eye Netflix stock about them building their girl group and that
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: While it was happening in real time,
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: these girls were posting to social media about the fact that they were trying out
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: for Cat's Eye and trying to get public support.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: So in the months leading up to this,
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was getting videos from girls who were on Angels Among Us about Wow.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So America's Next Top Model.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then for the during the actual event, they had influencers there.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the influencers are posting in their stories on their social media channels.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm going to this event.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was streamed live.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then the after,
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: like you said,
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: it's 48 hours later and we're still getting content about it
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: of unpacking different things and like seeing different performances
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: and playing those back.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think they just did a really smart job of I also just, like, love in my, like,
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: My own silo of consumption.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't know any of this.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I just think it's like so fun to hear you guys talk about it.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it is so smart,
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: especially from where, you know, these like legacy brands, like what do you do?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I feel like make sure a secret.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you asked me like before, like last week, I was like, I think it's doing mid.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really know how it's doing.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's just this like,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: how we talk about like what's old is new again or like the redefining of like,
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Gap, Olive Garden, like, you know, whatnot, Victoria's Secret.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think that these are just, like,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: really interesting examples to see,
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: like, the sort of redefining in real time kind of thing.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to, like, explore that.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I guess my other question is, and I wanted to get Megan to talk on this, too.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think you'll be able to weigh in as well, Emma.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: But just, like, what is it with Kylie Jenner?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the lore of Kylie Jenner?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, why?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, first, I guess, part A of this question is, like,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Has there been any negative sentiment of her doing this?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And like, again,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: she's just like one of those people right now where I'm like,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: is she like going to spread herself so thin?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like every time you turn around, it's like, well, maybe you should have Kylie Jenner.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: What was it?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Dunkin' Donuts?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: She's just like sort of the or then also...
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: What was it?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Aloe Yoga, I think.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: She just is kind of everywhere.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: I almost wonder, is she one of those people where there's never enough?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: The limit does not exist.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Even with Taylor Swift,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like after a while, we're all just like, okay, enough Taylor Swift.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: But Kylie seems to just be this kind of figure.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Carrie's lore,
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: as you said,
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think it has something to do with Emma,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: what you talked about,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: where it's like we've just seen her since the beginning and we feel so invested
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: in her.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: But if you had a budget for the big star to wear this bra, is it Kylie?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually think it's the opposite of this is something
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: that Kylie would have paid for more than it is something
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: that Victoria's Secret would have paid Kylie for.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think Kylie has more to gain from this moment than Victoria's Secret has to gain
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: from Kylie being part of this moment.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that this is them attempting to launch their version
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: of People's Sexiest Man of the Year,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: where I could see every year them having an influencer,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: not a celebrity,
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: an influencer who wears the fantasy bra,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: and they've charged that influencer in some way Like it's never as straightforward
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: as you're going to pay this much to get this,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: but like it'll be kind of like someone they're in business with
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: and there's something happening there that makes it symbiotic.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: But Kylie is the influencer's influencer is what we always say.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And she's also any girl who has any inkling of aspiring to be an influencer,
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: even just among her friend group, sees Kylie as aspirational.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's very much who the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show is for.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like the whole premise there that stayed consistent is like some women are angelic angels.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like they just essentially did that again,
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: but included influencers and content creators into the mix of all of this.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I saw in the reaction to Kylie, which part of me is like, is this a PSYOP?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because there were so many people who recorded their reactions to this and
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: then were like so excited when Kylie came on the screen.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: That I was like, I didn't know that people cared about her like that.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a little suspicious if that's even the case.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: But let's say that they are.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think from the people who are excited about it,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: they were excited for Kylie that she was having this moment.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was actually talking to Kylie about this because Ken Urich recently got
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: a write-up about how all of her ads are so great.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And Kylie was like, we should unpack this.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like,
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's a lot there there other than Ken has given herself over
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: to being parasocial so much that anytime she has success,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: you feel like, wow, my friend Ken got this brand deal.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, my friend Ken did this.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think Kylie for influencers is in a similar place where
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: when Kylie gets something,
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: even though she's a Kardashian and a billionaire,
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like that could be me in a very specific way that I think that's kind
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: of what they were excited about more than they were excited about being Kylie.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was like this is no longer some Brazilian supermodel who was born
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: into these genetics.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is a woman who has So
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's where a lot of the excitement is coming
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: from,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: not Kylie specifically,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: but the concept of an influencer who morphed herself into this product got to
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: the pinnacle of the most beautiful woman in the world.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: I totally agree.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: I have some thoughts I want to weigh in.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: I did see some backlash among the influencers,
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: to Megan's point, were all ecstatic about his decision for Kylie to go down.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: The people who I saw have negative reactions were OG Victoria's Secret fans who...
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Are obsessed with the Victoria's Secret angels and they saw this
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: as extremely disrespectful and like a disgrace to the fantasy bra and the prestige
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: that comes with the fantasy bra.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Which is interesting though like I think I am really curious to see, like,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: will this actually move numbers for Victoria's Secret or is this just going to be
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: a splash for this week?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because those girls that this pissed off are the ones
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: who are year-round making edits from past Victoria's Secret shows and are
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: the ones posting about their new drops.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, has Kylie ever posted about Victoria's Secret?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: Ever.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: No, she was posting about Skims,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: probably,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: a direct competitor to the Victoria's Secret,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: which that'll be interesting to see if that's talked about at all and keeping up.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure it will be.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then, Megan, I totally agree with your point on this being...
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Something they pull out a new influencer for each year.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Watched Kylie's vlog and she had Stassi Baby there who is her best friend.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Her basically like paid for best friend slash sidekick.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And she was backstage with her.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I do think Kylie,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: maybe there was some tension with some models about her being the fantasy bra pick
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: because And Stassi walks into her dressing room and she goes, what were they saying?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: What was everyone saying?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And Stassi was like, all the girls are so happy for you.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first thing she reassured Kylie with before she went on stage.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, that's interesting.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: But she kept saying,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: and this sounded so like brand speak to me,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: she kept saying, well, who else could it have been?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: You're the Gen Z fantasy.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: You're the fantasy girl of our generation.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: and I had a thought where I was like,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: is this going to be like the fantasy girl each year?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is this year's, who is this year's fantasy girl?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And Victoria's Secret is the, they crown.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: The fantasy girl every year.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: My prediction is Hayley Bieber is
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: next.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: She did a campaign with him, I think.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, totally.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think I have so many thoughts and reactions to this.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: This might take up our whole time, honestly.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's so interesting.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I just think I was also just hearing you guys talk about it.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, it's like, one, I think that...
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I also just think it's interesting that, like, Kim has Skims.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's also kind of crazy that that exists and that,
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: like, in this world, you know, like, Victoria's Secret is 100%.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they're in competition, you know?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just because Victoria's Secret is still a mall brand.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I could even see there being a collaboration there.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or, like, let's just
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: say maybe it's, Like they're in the same industry-ish, right?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just even think of like from if I'm Kim and I'm like weighing in on this
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: because I'm sure she weighs in on all these decisions.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm sure there's this like connect.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure she's thinking 10 steps ahead.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, and if Kylie gets crowned like this, it elevates Kylie's profile.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I also think that like strategically, you know, they have their like this You know, entourage.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like,
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think at this point,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: it's kind of like if there are moments to step up into the limelight,
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: someone's got to go do and get the attention, you know?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, okay, Kylie, like you have to be like, it's your turn, you know?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know, again,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Kylie also just being with Timothee Chalamet,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: it's just like,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: it's all so strategic,
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: like elevation of public profile and like attention and like, And all of that.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And like it does feel like just with how she's almost morphed
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: into this like brand ambassador
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: kind of job description.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it does feel a little desperate times for desperate measures.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't know if they're a little bit like this is you got to take what you can get.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that like.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think what you said, Emma, this idea of like the Victoria's Secret fashion show.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Also, it's like it I think.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: What's interesting with it,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: of the history of it, too,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: is that that first generation of supermodels that's still in it,
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: essentially,
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: what they always used to say back in the day, too,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: is that those guys actually couldn't be real supermodels because they were too,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: like, voluptuous.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's how they ended up being, like, Victoria's Secret fashion models.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: But they were, like,
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: it does give that, like, 90s era kind of, like, And it sort of touches on that.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just think it's sort of interesting that also in the show,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: there was a big celebration of women in their 40s looking better than ever.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: I also think it's notable that Kylie has had two kids and she's up there doing that.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm heartwarmed by that.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that is not what this was.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see what Barbara Pelvin said?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: So Barbara Palvin just had a kid with Dylan Sprouse.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, was she the one with her baby cheering at the TV?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Was that her?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Probably.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: So there's video of a woman that was like, yes!
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like holding up her baby.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, Barbara was in the show.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, okay.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Barbara walked in the show.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: she's not like quite as far back as like the OGs,
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: but she's like of a pre, this has gone down the drain era.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And she like had a baby like six weeks ago.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: She said someone asked her about that and she said,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: well, maternity leave in the U.S. is six to eight weeks.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really not doing anything that any woman in America isn't expected to do,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: which I really liked that framing from being like, how'd you bounce back so fast?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can't even tell to being like,
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm back at work six weeks after I had a baby because that's what you do
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: in this country.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like I thought that was really cool.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think the woman in the reactionary video that you're talking about was cheering her on.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, six weeks postpartum, oh my god.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And she's holding her baby, cheering her.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely like...
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's also this essence of how you guys said Kylie wasn't essentially born like this.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: She was kind of made.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it does have sort of essences of the American dream.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like she got herself there.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like people are more enthralled with the accomplishment of her walking
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: than they are at the bra's price tag.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like that always used to be the headline of this bra is worth so much that
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: that would be my advice for Victoria's Secret of like,
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: you need to make your bra interesting in a different way than just it costs a lot
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: of money because that's not the interesting part of this accolade.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's interesting, too.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know how they conceptualized this.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: They definitely were thinking of Ballerina Farm, too.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the process of Hannah when she had not her most recent baby, but the one before.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And she was 12 days postpartum and then was in beauty pageants right away.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it actually received a lot of discourse, part one.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I think As time has told, it was like overwhelmingly like positive.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like people are still in support of her.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just think that, yeah, like this era of like, it's not, it's still like perfectionism.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like we saw all sorts of body types up on that stage.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: But it is more of like,
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: A woman has,
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: it's like postpartum bodies and like women who are not,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know, again, talking about, you know, paid leave, like, right?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: it's just,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: it still feels like,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: I, the whole fashion thing, I mean, it's like beauty pageants in general, right?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's kind of like this weird world, you know?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like as women,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: we were all like conditioned to be like,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: you're the best, you're the prettiest, like whatever.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, how messed up is this?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And now you can parade around in front of us.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what I'm hearing you say too is that the tonality of this has shifted
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: and it feels less of an exercise in trying to achieve the optimal male gaze
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: and more aligned with like what women want for themselves and each other
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: the modern day.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like the audience was very much like girls and it wasn't to be sexy.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: especially in this wellness and fitness world we're into, like,
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: it was just sort of like, you can tell that they're working hard at their bodies.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, you know, sorry, Em, I was...
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: This is a bit more superficial,
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: but I do think it is a big part of the Victoria's Secret fashion show fantasy and,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: like, aspiration that it presents to its female audiences.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that is of the supportive, famous boyfriend.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: Who she is the one on stage in the spotlight while her gorgeous,
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: famous boyfriend cheers her on.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: And the cameras always make sure they have a cameraman dedicated.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: All the boyfriends and husbands are always sitting front row.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Was Timothy there?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, he was.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: He was front row.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: With a huge smile on his face.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Huge smile on his face that they made sure to catch on camera.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: They have a camera guy specifically for the boyfriends and husbands.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Dylan Sprouse is always a big one every year.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that also plays into probably why they picked Kylie,
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: part of it.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: They were like Jacob Elordi.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Jacob Elordi or Timothee Chalamet.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Jacob's gotta work a little harder.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think he probably—and I don't want to, like,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: discredit her or say,
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: you know, like,
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: this successful moment is because of her boyfriend,
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: but I think it was—it's part of the package in fantasy that she presents.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: And, yeah, I thought that was really interesting.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if they did it this year,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: but I remember all previous years they would have,
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: after the show, all the famous boyfriends and husbands walk the pink carpet.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: And they would film their reunions with their model partners as, like, them.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they usually had, like, in and out for that.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, they would make sure to capture all of that and storytell that, like, super heavily.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it was interesting.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: It was interesting to see that happening this year.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'll ask you guys a quick question, and I don't know this, but has Kim ever walked in it?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-mm.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I just wonder,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: it's just so interesting,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: because some of this is giving,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: even stepping back for a second,
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: are the Kardashians sort of recreating Kim and Kylie?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: The lore of Kim.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: and like in a different way because this does feel like baton passy
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: and like I was like I was like where is Kim in this?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like obviously it's probably like don't if I'm surprised she actually hasn't been
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: in it to be honest with you like I even in the past like eight years
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: but I just think it's like mismatched with timing and body type.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: She's really stiff.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, she doesn't do things live super well.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's like one of her Achilles heels.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I would actually guess that Kim feels some type of way about this more than Kendall does.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think that, yeah, I think Kendall is like, I'm luxury, I'm high fashion.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to be modeling for a mall brand.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's how she's telling herself.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think she actually might have a campaign.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: She is like the unattainable.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of, where Kylie does read more as Malbrand.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I feel like this is more playing in Kim's face, like to what you're saying.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: This does feel very baton passy of like Kylie is the new hot girl on the scene and
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: the one who's known for her body and makes a huge,
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: gets a huge reaction just for showing up and looking good.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's interesting you bring up Kim because I think she,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: have you guys heard of Citizen Kim?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody wrote a biography about Kim.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's Citizen Kim, like the woman who changed the world or something like that.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's coming out soon.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if she played a role in it, but it's coming out.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And she just...
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's so smart.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Zendaya is a genius.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: And he is basically a celebrity himself now.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he has
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: They've done a few looks together,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: and the most recent one is very 50s-inspired and honestly very mature.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: People were saying she looked matronly, and it was interesting.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: This is how she wants to present herself now.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was definitely not the...
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it was skin tight.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, it's skin Kardashian, but it was more mature and matronly and not overtly sexy.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and like, and I was like, hmm, maybe this is like Kim, you know, she's in her 40s now.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's part of like the baton pass.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like she is now.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: The rooms she wants to be taken seriously in have changed.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like she's now having a lot more board meetings and like talking to investors.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: And she probably,
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: like we were talking about with the tarot stuff, wants to be taken more seriously.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: And in order to do that, she can't be popping out in the fantasy bra.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like she needs to be seen as more professional and buttoned up if that's
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: who she's running with these days.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean,
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: I still,
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: it would be interesting to be in a room that,
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think she's at a really interesting moment with being a mom.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think that parenting
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: She has four kids that are all at very different stages.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's hard.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, obviously North also is sort of has like a budding career right now.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: That is a whole nother thing to navigate and to think about and be strategic about.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And she's doing it with Kanye.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: And like, also Kim actually, it was interesting now that we're talking about her.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: She did a really cool ad for Skims recently.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Did you guys see it?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: It came up on my feed.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: I should have sent it to you guys.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like a really high-end ad.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's like produced and it's cool.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like these really neat shots.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And she's wearing like this black like bodysuit.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, no, do it again.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like change it.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like whatever.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the whole thing is so well done.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a mini movie kind of thing.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: And half of the comments were like, clearly she's still working with Kanye.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's helping her with this.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is like.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just sort of interesting to see that was the reaction to it.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'll send it to you guys.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I think she's in an interesting moment
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: where it almost felt like she was tiptoeing into politics a bit.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if she sort of has retracted from that, right?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: She was kind of becoming the voice for helping people who obviously were like,
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: On death row or like whatever and like helping them kind of work through that.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I don't – I haven't heard her doing any legal work like
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: since she – Well, she's
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: All's Fair season two out now.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's very Kardashian to be all in on something for a couple of years.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: so like I just don't know what she – I feel like she doesn't necessarily know what
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: to – like and Skims is successful and like, you know, yeah.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I haven't – I think it's interesting.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about Kim and Kylie,
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: but at the end of the day, Kris Jenner is the mastermind behind all of this.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that their portfolio of brands,
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: the Kardashian-Jenners, but I also think that Kim has kind of broken off from the portfolio
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: and she's like her own thing.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's where we're seeing this kind of like uncertainty
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: because I think Kris Jenner is actually the strategic branding mastermind behind all
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: of this,
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: but she wants to do it in more a portfolio strategy way where it's like,
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: you're doing this, you're doing that, you're doing that.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like Even how we're like, Kim feels some type of way about this.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a conflict of interest here?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like as their brands have gotten bigger,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: it's harder to manage them as a portfolio because they have their own niches,
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: their own goals that might now start overlapping with each other in ways
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: that are harder for Chris to control.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you need CEO of Kim, CEO of Kylie.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's more complicated than,
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know,
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: if you guys watched Keeping Up a few years back,
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: they could always tell who the favorite sibling was based
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: on how Kris ranked their companies in her Instagram page.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: When I was working with Lumi,
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Lumi Cases,
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: they said, like,
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: they've had meetings and, like,
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: they're competitive with each other about business and,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: like, whose net worth is more.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, that's a very real dynamic in their family.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, my God.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be interesting.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: I have that problem.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, well, just have to wait.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: That, I mean, this is great for Hulu.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, now I'm definitely going to be tuning in to at least the,
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: like, whatever episode is Victoria's Secret-centric of the new season.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but thank you guys so much.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Such a fun conversation as always.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: And see you guys on Thursday.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.