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202. Healing the Subconscious · The Rochelle Christiane Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Emotional Mastery Podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I am your host, rochelle.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm a holistic human design health coach and this is a space for human design and spiritual journey.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: It's not about being a master of your emotions, rather mastering the tools to self-regulate, to awakening yourself and remembering who you are.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Human design changed my life about five years ago and I've been learning and teaching the system ever since.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: This podcast is human design meets spirituality, meets astrology.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: You don't have to have a belief system to be here, just an open mind and curiosity.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: This is a journey of meeting yourself and awakening to your infinite potential.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Now let the magic begin.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to another week, another episode.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: This week has actually felt really supportive, so May personally felt incredibly challenging, but the last, I'd say, like last week or so, has just the energy, has felt definitely more supportive.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I have been gaining a lot more.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I feel like self-worth, maybe just internal support, internal clarity.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: And coming back to that self-worth, I have been really confronted with my emotional landscape, my emotional world, and that's something we get into in this podcast episode.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: But the responses to my emotional reactions, I guess, or the reactions to my emotional responses to things, can sometimes feel really overwhelming and when we are in a trauma response, when we are activated emotionally, we tend to respond to our past experiences.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: So I've referenced this quite a few times, but it was something that really changed my mind and shifted the way I perceive things.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: But I had Ken Close on that podcast a year ago I think a year ago, may and one thing he had said was that by 30, we have every emotional experience that we will ever have, and so when those emotional experiences are triggered, when our emotions are triggered, we tend to attach those emotional experiences to the situation, to the emotions that are arising, and we tell ourselves these stories about what's happened in the past.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: And so, especially when you come from listen, my lesson in life is emotions, which is or relationships rather, which is really funny, because I have Aquarius in the seventh house, but I have nothing in the seventh house.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: I have my south node in Libra in the third house, which sort of makes sense, right, because Libra is the natural ruler of the seventh house, but my seventh house in general, there's nothing there.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: And so it's obviously not to say that there are no lessons there, because there are significant lessons there for me and it continues to come up, but I mean without going in depth into my chart, this has been a huge lesson for me.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I have had experiences, whether be it from this life or past lives, that my body, my DNA, my emotions are remembering, and I'm also learning the value of being in relationship with someone else.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: And I say that and I'll elaborate because I literally, if you asked me five years ago or even less than that, like, let's say, three years ago I even had this conversation the other day I have always said I hate dating.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I hate the process of dating.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: It is so unfun to me.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I really just the entire thing like getting to know somebody and then having to go through emotions and then, especially when you like somebody, it's just like it triggers so much and it's not fun.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: But recently I've really come to value the dating process in a way that when you are attracting or calling in people that are healthier, the ability for them to reflect your inner world, your challenges, is really actually beautiful.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I have talked about this on here before, but I am dating a reflector, which is really fascinating.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: It's been about seven months and it's been up and down.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Just I think part of it is I have gone through periods of self-sabotage.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I've gone through periods of wanting to run, which is my past sort of my past go-to I guess that fight flight sort of my past go-to I guess that fight-flight, the flight part of it.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: And yet through all of that, you know, regardless of what this becomes, I can value the fact that this person just being a reflector in itself is huge, because I'm constantly reflected back to myself, which is what relationships do in general, but I feel like it's intensified and being able to have conversations which shows me my feeling of safety in this dynamic and because of all of that, I feel like I'm able to come back to my self-worth and to value myself and to not get too caught up in things.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: There are certainly things in the dynamic that I feel as though I'm not receiving.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: We've had those conversations, which in itself is like whoa, you could actually have conversations like this with people and it not be an attack or not be anything, because that's all that I'm used to is just very unhealthy.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: But again, that ability to have those conversations and the ability to have a conversation with somebody who is confident in themselves and their worth and able to reflect things back A conversation we just had the other day around something that I've been asking for, and then this person gave me what I was asking for and then I was still not satisfied, and so that's kind of what came up was that you know, you asked for this and I gave it and yet there's still something.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: So I think maybe there's something there for you to look at, and it's true.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: And also it's just like a really big reflection period, but I'm not feeling chaotic about it, whereas in the past, with people, when I don't get my needs met or I feel emotionally activated, I tend to really react or cut people out or dismiss them or kind of play the victim, to be honest, like you're not giving me what I need and we're moving on, and so it's just been a really interesting reflection period, I think, and I've really realized that my chart in itself, like, is very intense and very serious.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: And so, having this one thing that I've noticed and I've heard from other people in relationship, whether it's a parental relationship, friendship, partner, whatever reflectors and this is my current experience they have this just like love for life, this excitement and enthusiasm and playfulness, and I have so much intensity in my chart and I've found that playfulness before with people with heavy Gemini placements and I really appreciate that and it's something that, again, because I feel like the work that I do and the healing that I'm doing is so intense and sometimes it's just like, oh my gosh, I need play, I need fun in my life and it's just like kind of a breath of fresh air to get that.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: And so it's just this balance which is really interesting, because this is so much what this new moon in Gemini is.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: So today, when this comes out, it'll be the new moon in Gemini, and Gemini is duality, right, it's the twins.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: It is this balance and, especially because it is the sun, moon and Venus are square, they're all conjunct at 16 degrees Gemini and they're square to Saturn.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: So we have this Gemini energy the sun, moon and Venus.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: So this is relationships, this is creativity, this is our inner world, this is our core essence.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Right, it's being activated by this very curious, playful, a little bit rambunctious, slightly distracted, full of ideas air sign right.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: And Gemini is an air sign.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: A mutable air sign doesn't necessarily like to sit and feel their emotions.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: They more so like to intellectualize their emotions.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Air signs don't typically feel in that way.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: They can have this ability to sort of detach so that they can see things from a more observer perspective.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: And it's also so we're having this really fun, light, playful energy, bringing in our relationships and our values and you know all these sort of things, that we have Mercury in there communicating and Jupiter is expanding and it's just like this really beautiful energy and it's all in its square to Saturn.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: And so when we look at the archetypes, the I can't remember what the book is called.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: The moon phase astrology calls the Gemini new moon to be the brother's moon and so in this archetype of the twins that is represented by Gemini, this specific the new moon in Gemini is sort of that brother, that if you're thinking of twins as like a brother and a sister, then this is the brother energy, right, where it is that rambunctious, it's that playful, it's a little bit, yeah, like that sort of distracted, curious, inquisitive, like let's get dirty and let's like jump on the couches kind of energy.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: And then if we're looking further at the you know archetype of astrology, then we have Saturn, which is the father archetype, right Like Kronos is coming in and it's asking us to ground a little bit right, to get to have a little bit right, to have a little bit of boundaries and maybe a little bit of discipline.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: When that rambunctious brother gets a little bit out of control, saturn is here to pull it back in.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: And so we really have this duality of all of these things, of the heaviness and the fun, the creativity and the structure, and it's really this balance of everything, and I think that's really what this energy is calling for.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: This new moon is finding that balance, and I noticed so much of that coming up in my own life, in relationships, which is, of course, so.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Gemini, or just so like this astrology is really hitting, and I have Venus and Gemini in my natal chart in the 11th house, and so all these themes are really coming up.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: And it is this interesting ability to sort of detach my emotions and to understand A it doesn't have to be all that serious and also, can I feel my emotions?
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Can I go through an emotional experience without making it super serious, right, without making it mean so much about me, without having to be bogged down with the intensity of what's going on, and to be able to look at it from that observer perspective, right, to have Gemini come in and just detach a little bit and just be like, okay, let's think about this, right, let's get a little bit logical about this.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Let's see what's going on on an intellectual level, and maybe we can process the emotion in that sort of way.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: And it's not about not feeling the emotion, and that's something that Lucas talks about in this episode.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: You know, what we don't feel now, we're going to feel later in a bigger way, and so, again, it's not about not feeling.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: And I think that is also the challenge of Gemini is can we feel in this moment and use our mind at the same time?
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: So, without this intro getting to be too long, that's just sort of what's been coming up for me.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I'm also reading the convoluted universe book too, and I'm like feeling this so deeply.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: So if you haven't read that book, I highly recommend it.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: It's just opening my mind and my consciousness to what is out there and I just feel so expanded in that way where it's like we make this life so hard and also there's so much more right, there's so much more to life and we are really creating a reality.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: And, mercury and Gemini, it's about our words, it's about our thoughts, and so, knowing that when we are using our words and expressing ourself in that way, we are creating our reality, right?
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: I think I might.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: I hope I don't butcher the saying, but the Kabbalion, right it's the all is mental, the all is mind.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: No, the all is mental, the universe is mind.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Or vice versa, the all is mental, the universe is mind.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Either way, right.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Our mind and our thoughts are so powerful and so using that to our advantage.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: But this episode I talked to Lucas Handwerker, who is a writer, speaker, subconscious guide and spiritual counselor.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: He spent 12 years helping people remove inner blocks, dissolve anxiety, resolve trauma, change habits and make all sorts of inner shifts.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: He helps people make a change at the subconscious roots.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: So no covering up symptoms or dancing around the problem, and he goes right to quickly and make a lasting transformation.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: He started his journey in hypnosis and I bring it up a couple times because I just find hypnosis fascinating, especially as I'm reading this book.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: But he does not use hypnosis currently, but his, his process and the way that he helps people heal is really beautiful and he shares about that in this episode.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: So you can find Lucas at Lucas handworkercom and of course it's going to be in this episode.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: So you can find Lucas at lucashandworkercom and of course it's going to be in the show notes.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at rochellechristiane R-O-C-H-E-L-L-E, dot.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: C-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n-e.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I've been doing a body reset in the chat and the DMs on Instagram and it's been really beautiful.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: We sort of dug into our human design body graph chart just like separating the body and human design yesterday, and I literally had two people who said it was like life-changing the perspective and being able to look at it that way, and I'm just like loving that feedback.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: And that's also something that we dive into in the Holistic Human Design Academy, which doors are opening June 15th.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: If you're interested in getting in there, if not, just head over to Instagram.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: And I'm considering making the Body Reset an actual program and I think it's good to go through your Body Reset every now and again, whether you decide to make changes in your diet or it's just like energetic.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: But I do think the body is such an important part of our holistic being.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: You know we came here as spirits having this human physical experience in this physical body, and so getting the body aligned is so, so powerful.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: So find me on Instagram, send me a DM, let me know what you took from this episode, what you resonated, reach out to Lucas, see how you can work with him.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Whether this is your first time or you always listen, I genuinely love you for being here, for listening wherever you've included me in your day.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: If you feel called to share this episode with a friend any of the other episodes with a friend rate review, subscribe Spotify.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Literally, it's just the five stars.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: It's so easy, just click it, you don't have to do anything else and it really does help the podcast.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for being here and I will catch you next week.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the emotional mastery podcast.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Today I have Lucas Handwerker, who is a writer, speaker, subconscious guide and spiritual counselor, and I'm really excited to have this conversation.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much that you do that I find so fascinating, and hypnosis is one of them.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: So I would love to dive into that at some point, but I usually always start out.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to hand the floor to you so you can share your story.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: You know any defining moments along the way that sort of got you to where you're at today and we'll take it from there.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, well, thanks for having me.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: It's a long story, not sure how much time we have to go into it, but well, it all started when I was five years old.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Now, what kind of did all start when I was very young and was always really interested in mysticism and magic and dreams and alternate realities and dimensions and things like that.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: So when I was really little I got into sleight of hand magic because for me it was that experience of wonder and astonishment and something kind of outside of the normal range of reality.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: So it was always something that was interesting to me, even from a very, very young age.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: And then just following my bliss, just following my interests.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: But I was also raised by two therapists.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: My dad's a therapist, my mom's a therapist.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: So I met in an ashram, like a commune type of environment that was more spiritually based and I was just raised around a lot of Eastern religion and those kinds of things and always had an interest in the mystical.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: And then through magic I got into mentalism, which is more about the mind and psychology Excuse me and then through that got into hypnosis, got into hypnotherapy, started seeing clients and then and that was now, that was 12 years ago and, just like anything, when you first do something, something, you kind of do it the way you were taught and then over time you develop your own approach, and so since then I've developed my own way of working with clients and helping people heal and I don't really practice hypnosis anymore.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: That's definitely how I got my start.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Um, that was the first modality that I trained in formally.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: I've trained in many others since then, but and I've also, just through a lot of hours of experience, just been developing my own approach, something I call core work, and that's that's what I do mostly with clients down, that's what I write about and and lecture on and do workshops on, and yeah, so that's so.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: That's kind of the short version.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I always find it so interesting when I speak to people who had such mystical experiences really young, because I think there's such a disconnect for a lot of us and maybe it was environment and that was more acceptable in like your home and as opposed to somebody who I mean that wasn't even a thing in my childhood, right, and I sort of like get envious when people have had those experiences so young, because mine was.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: It was like more of a fascination Right when I got into middle school with the Ouija boards and there was always like a draw to something beyond what was like normal in my household.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Um, but it wasn't until I got like much older that I was like, oh, wow, like we all have these skills, right.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: So it's so beautiful that it was something that you were able to cultivate like really young and sort of yeah, yeah, it's most of what I've known.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: It's interesting, though, because I grew up in a place that was super materialistic, raised by a family who were more spiritual and mystical, so I had that little respite, but when I left my house and when I was at school and out in the world where I grew up, it was not that at all.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: So that was always challenging.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: But but yeah, I know I'm definitely lucky and I also got into tarot really young.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: I got into tarot when I was like eight or nine years old and I didn't know not any kind of serious way, just sort of looking at the pictures and the cards and that kind of thing.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I definitely have been exposed to a lot and I guess have had I don't know, I don't know what isn't a mystical experience.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: I think everything is a mystical experience.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I think some of them can be seen more than others, and I think some people see them more than others, and I think some of them kind of hit you over the back of the head, but I think others are very subtle and quiet.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: But I'm always more interested in what is subtle and quiet and soft and unassuming.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: That's kind of the way that I help people heal.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: They heal little by little and over the course of a few months they just kind of start feeling different and behaving differently.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: And it's not dramatic and it's not sexy, but in the course of a few months they just feel like a different person and their life changes and it kind of sneaks up on them.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: They don't even really notice it happening until it's happened, and that's that's the kind of thing I've always been really fascinated with, not the kind of the clouds parting and the big moment, cause you know, for me it's always been kind of an easy come, easy go sort of perspective when it comes to healing, and so something that happens gradually over not even that much time but over a few months, I think is going to be more lasting and more real than something that happens overnight.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think sometimes even those experiences that you know, like you said, like the clouds part and everything, I think sometimes those experiences, at least for me, have been very gradual and it's sort of that aha right, where it's like, oh, wow, like I'm responding to this thing differently because of all the work that I didn't notice was so slowly happening in the background Right and it's like that moment.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Well, it seems like it's happening all at once.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: But there's this idea in chemistry called titration, which is this idea?
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: And you see, we see it all the time.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: It's like if you have a little drop of water and you add another drop of water, nothing happens.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: And you add another drop and nothing happens.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: But there's a certain point where titration happens, where you added enough water and the water starts moving from its own weight.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: But all those extra little drops, nothing happened.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: But it didn't seem like something was happening.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: But it was slowly building up its force until just that last drop sent it moving, sent that little stream of water down the table or whatever it was.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: But all those other drops had to happen for that final one to make it move.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: But it seems like that last one was the only one that did anything.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, absolutely.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's what a lot of us see.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: You know is that last one, and then we just think it was an overnight thing, but it really was a lot of work.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: The whole thing of the overnight success take takes 10 years.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah True.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: So what is your core work and how does how did that evolve from like hypnosis?
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Well, hypnosis is fundamentally a practice of working at the unconscious level, and unconscious is just a fancy way of saying what's outside of conscious awareness.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: So we know that our conscious awareness can only hold seven plus or minus two items at a time.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: It's limited, but our unconscious mind holds everything else.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: The example I always give is you know, think about maybe the face of your first grade teacher, or even your mother's name, and in those moments those ideas arrive.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: You are aware of your mom's name and the face of your first grade teacher, and it's not like those ideas were non-existent before.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: They were just unconscious and all we did was just bring it from unconscious to conscious.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: So your unconscious mind is most of who and what you are.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Your unconscious mind also controls your body.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Right now, your heart is beating your body, temperature is being regulated, your organs are functioning, filtering, your mind is processing.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: All these things are happening and you're not having to try to do any of this.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: You don't need to forget to beat your heart.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: It just happens, and that's unconscious.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: And so hypnosis for me was a way of learning how to navigate the unconscious mind, or at least understanding somewhat of how it operated.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: But from hypnosis I went into the core work, which I think one of the big differences is.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Hypnosis is mostly passive.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: You talk to the person you know, the client, tells you what they want to focus on and then they go into an altered state and you just talk to them for 30 minutes or more and that's very passive and it's also kind of formulaic in how most of the time it's approached.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: But, excuse me, the way core work operates it's under the assumption that underneath a lot of behaviors and emotions and thoughts is a core, a core feeling, core wound, and that's where we focus the work.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: It's still unconscious in that it is at this subtle, under the surface level, the same kind of level that intuition comes from.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: It's a very soft kind of knowing, but you're still aware of it.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: So it's not like you just close your eyes and wake up 30 minutes later and the session's over.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: It's much more interactive, it's much more connective and there's a lot of things that are different about it.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: But hypnosis was definitely kind of my entry point into healing people in an unconscious way, and to me hypnosis is also quite mystical, and at least when it's done properly, I think.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of what led me into it, but I've studied a lot of other modalities and I read a lot of different philosophies and spiritual perspectives and just kind of sample from a lot of different philosophies and spiritual perspectives and you know just kind of sample from a lot of different places.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Shamanism is something I've studied a lot Ritual magic so all that's kind of found its way into the way that I help people change and heal.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: And how does hypnosis like I always find it fascinating, because how are you getting them into that state?
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like I've never actually experienced it other than you know maybe some binarial beats or you know, like those sort of like meditations, but I'm still very conscious and aware, like I don't know, that I've ever had like that.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: So I'm always just curious.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: You definitely have.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Hypnosis isn't really the state of being.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Hypnosis is the tools that you use to help someone get to that place and also to help someone once they're in that place.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: But there are a lot of different tools to help someone once they're in that place.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: But there are a lot of different tools to help someone once they're in that unconscious place.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: But when you go into an altered state or a trance state or a theta brainwave state, you're in that state all the time.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: It happens all the time.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: People think of consciousness as like a light switch.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: It's on or it's off.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: You're awake or you're asleep.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: You're in hypnosis or trance or whatever you want to call it, or you're not.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: But it's not like that.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Consciousness is a gradient.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: It's always changing and flowing and moving.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: You're going from focused to distracted, to stimulated, to bored, to anxious.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Thoughts are coming in memories, you're zoning out while you're making a meal or while you're driving your car.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: So your consciousness is always moving and changing and flowing and the idea of using unconscious processes of healing is about accessing that place.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: That's sort of underneath awareness and it's a place that you have access to.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: It often happens you know.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: You're driving a car, you're riding a bike, you're going for a walk or something, and a thought enters your mind or an awareness of something, and it may even be something that's kind of uncomfortable.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: It may be a memory that you know is difficult, a traumatic experience, or it may be even just a realization about yourself, or you know, it may just be like, oh, I'm not, I'm not doing what I need to be doing, or not showing up the way I want to show up for the people in my life, and it's just a little split second of a moment and it's uncomfortable and it's a really soft kind of knowing.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: It's the kind of knowing that happens when you're dreaming or when you wake up from a dream, sort of there, but then you, you know, you pick up your dog's poop and you go and do the dishes and then it's gone.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: So that's something unconscious coming into consciousness and it's something that's happening all the time.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: And the goal of healing to me is just directing that movement, that path, and doing it in a productive way and not pushing.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: you can't push it or force it yeah, how do we know the difference between our unconscious coming, conscious or just the ego?
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Well, it depends how you define ego.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: That's a very loaded word, right?
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Well, I think in general, unconscious information arrives all at once.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: So when I'm working with a client and we ask their unconscious mind a question, we know it's an unconscious response.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: When it just arrives, it's like pops into their mind, fully formed, it's just right there.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: We know it's a thought.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: If there's sort of a path to get there, they go.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Let me think about that.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it was this and maybe it's that, but I'm not so sure.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Thoughts and conscious thinking are kind of labored, so they, they have a, an effort in them.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Unconscious thought is just arrives, it's effortless.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: And we've all had that experience of any kind of creative endeavor right, trying to write something or paint something, or what.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Have you anyone who's done something creative, where you sit down and you think I want to write a great poem or I want to paint a great painting, and then you try and do it and you're just maybe you do it, but it's a labor, it's a struggle.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: And then there's those moments where you're just doing something else and then an idea just arrives to you and it's fully formed and you're excited about it and all you have to do is just let it out and it's done and it's, and it's better than anything you labored over.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: And so that's the difference between conscious and unconscious thought.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: And so, um, you know, I have a friend of mine.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: The word he uses for ego is identity.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: It's like sort of who you think you are, um, which is in some ways more important than who you are actually is who you think you are, who you confuse yourself with.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: But I would say, you know, unconscious insight can still be coming from ego, but that's not to say that it's any less true or any less valuable.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's always interesting.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: It's good, though, I know, because, like sometimes, all you know have a download and I always think that it's that first thing, and then the mind is afterwards of questioning it and analyzing it and then, it kind of loses exactly.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: And then you're like, you know, making yourself not do the thing or not believe it, because you're like, oh, it wasn't anyway, you know, but it believe it because you're like, oh, it wasn't anyway you know um, but it's always interesting.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like following that, you know, sometimes.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just like magic right, like you'll get the, the unconscious thought, or download, or whatever you want to use it, and then, like you said, it's just like manifest into this beautiful, beautiful thing.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: And then sometimes you'll follow it and it's just like so it's like, I guess, sometimes it's like why, why did one and like not the other, you know, and I think our mind just makes it confusing.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll be getting our own ways.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: I think I think that's when I help someone change in a way.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I always break down what I do fundamentally into two categories.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: It's either you're feeling, doing, thinking being a way that you don't want to be and you want to stop it, or you are trying to think, feel, do and be a certain way, but you can't, you're struggling to be able to do it and you want to be able to do it.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: So it's usually one of those two things and often I find that when we're doing that work, it's sort of like planting a seed.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: You plant the seed in the right time of year and you put it in the right soil and you water it the right amount and make sure it has the right sun, but after that you have no control over its growth or the speed of its growth.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: But if you were to dig up the seed to check if it was growing every now and then, or overwater it because you want it to grow faster, you're actually just going to hinder its growth.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: So that's what unconscious healing is a lot about.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: It's just as much about not doing too much as it is doing the right thing, and that's kind of there's no other way to describe it, but in my experience it comes through feel.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: It's just by feel I can feel when we're pushing or when we're forcing it and when we're moving with the speed that the person's able to move, and everyone moves to different speeds, so some people can change a lifelong problem in a few meetings with me, and other people, need you know, need a month to do it or two months to do it.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: We can only move as fast as someone's able to, but and if you rush it, what happens is pain comes up, and so we just want to make sure we don't step on our own toes.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: It's really important.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, does pain normally come up regardless?
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Is that I mean part of the process?
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's these things.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I call them speed bumps and basically what happens in the course of the work is we make changes and you know, we go in and we start doing unconscious work.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: We get to the core, we work at that level, we start making changes and then we start seeing little incremental shifts in their behavior and their emotions and their relationships.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Even 5% here, 10% there just little changes.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: And sooner or later, as it's dropping, let's say it gets to like 50%, meaning half of the symptoms are gone or symptoms are reduced by half, and then we hit what we might call a speed bump, and so that would look like going from 50% to 60%.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: And then we hit what we might call a speed bump, and so that would look like going from 50% to 60%.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: So it jumps up a little bit.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: It'll never jump back to 100.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: It always just jumps a little bit, but that little bit of a jump feels like the end of the world, which is why I tell people that this is likely to happen before we even start working, so they can know what's coming and what speed bumps are.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: In my experience is there's just some aspect of them that's afraid of making that change, which also means there's some aspect of them that is benefiting from the problem and is afraid of losing something by changing, and you could also call this growing pains.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: And I find that the more we're rushing or pushing, the more painful the speed bumps are and the bigger they are.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: But if we're not rushing or pushing, speed bumps are 5% or 10% backslides and it's usually easy to work through.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: But that's definitely an important part of healing, because if you're not working through those speed bumps, which are essentially resistances to change, then you're not really making deep change.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I kind of equate it to like crash testing a car.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: If you're driving a car and they say, oh, it's a great car, it's never been crash tested, you probably wouldn't feel very safe in that car.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: So we kind of want to make changes that go through these iterations of backsliding and speed bumps, because each speed bump we hit we're finding a weak point in the change.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: We're finding a part of them that goes wait, but I can't do that, or a part of them that doesn't want to, and then we're incorporating that.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: And each time we hit a speed bump and we incorporate it, the symptoms drop again and then we've made an even stronger change, an even deeper change.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: And then we keep going and things keep reducing, symptoms keep reducing.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Sooner or later we hit another speed bump and what that's doing is pointing out another little crack in the change, a little corner we missed, and we incorporate that too.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: So by the end of the process, the change is really deep and robust and they can go out and live their life and have stressful moments and pay their taxes and, you know, have all the stress of life, and they can know that that changes is not just a change in symptom but a change in who they are.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: And that's that's really what we want.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: We don't just want to change a symptom, we want to, we want to change the person.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: It's really important.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and is it still like a gentle process, say, for somebody who has trauma?
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know we all have forms of trauma, but I work with a lot of people on trauma, yeah, so the way I like to work with trauma is unconsciously.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: So we work with traumatic experiences outside of conscious awareness, so there's no need to know what they are, there's no need to be aware of them, you don't have to relive them, it's nothing like that.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: So we work with those experiences outside of awareness, so you don't even.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: A lot of my clients don't even know what the memories are.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: The only time we would work with a trauma in conscious awareness meaning they know what it is is if it's the kind of situation where they already know what it is and it's just looping through their head again and again.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: As if it's the kind of situation where they already know what it is and it's just looping through their head again and again, like those kind of things we would work with directly.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: But a lot of traumas are repressed and so we don't want to open up that can of worms.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: We want to make sure that we work with that experience in a safe way, outside of awareness.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: And how are you doing it outside of awareness?
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Is it through hypnosis or, like your?
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: yeah, like how does that work?
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I don't practice hypnosis anymore.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: In my sessions I have my own approaches to working unconsciously.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Basically, when you close your eyes and you bring your awareness inside of yourself versus outside, you're already in an altered state of consciousness, and then there's different degrees of that.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: There's your thoughts, there's your emotions, there's memories, there's images, there's physical sensations in your body, and so all these things are different layers of your inner experience, and that's where we work.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: We work with memories, emotions, beliefs, values, needs.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: We work with a lot of different aspects of that part of a person, but I like to really work with the emotions as sort of the thread that we pull to take us to other places, because your emotions have a lot of information in them.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: One emotion could take you to 10 memories and could take you to a lot of thoughts and even influence behaviors, and so I like to work with emotions, but I like to work with them unconsciously, and we do that by sifting below the more reactionary emotions to get to the deeper ones.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: And once we get to the deeper emotions, that's where we can start to make some deep change.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: So you're just exploring the emotional experience versus trying to pull out the memory.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Well, the memory is in the emotion.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: So if someone walks around just feeling anxious all the time, there's a good chance that something scary happened to them at some point.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Um, and that doesn't even have to be, you know, a big dramatic thing.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: It could be your first grade teacher yelled at you, or it could be traumatic, and there's usually more than one experience.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: It's usually a handful, but in that emotion you can kind of use that emotion to take you to experiences.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: But again, we don't need to know what they are to work with them in this approach.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I mean hypnosis is how I got started.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: I I got trained and certified as a hypnotist when I was 18.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: Um, and then over the next 12 years I've just been exploring and working with a ton of people uh, I don't know how many.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm probably close to my 10,000 hours now of client work and just through experimentation, a lot of the things I've developed in my approach just came from working with someone and doing everything that I knew how to do and just hitting a wall and just being like I don't know how to help this person and then just using my intuition or experimenting or just listening to them really intently, and then something that they said kind of set off an idea and it sent me in a direction.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: And just doing that for 12 years, will you know, really teach you a lot.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Um and um I had.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: I remember I had a conversation with my mom, um, in that time and uh, I w I had.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: I was so busy with clients that I wasn't really I didn't have enough time to read and study.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: I like to read and study new approaches to healing all the time.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: I was talking to her about this and she said well, you're learning a lot just from spending all these hours with people.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: And I think that's really really true.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: I think you can learn a lot just from.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: I think you need that foundation, of course, but you kind of need to learn the rules, to break them and to forget them and to invent your own rules.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: And so that's kind of where I am now and I'm lucky because I get to train people in workshops and retreats and every year I do an apprenticeship.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: So once a year I take anywhere from two to four people in an apprenticeship and we spend the year together and I teach them this approach and it's immersive and intensive and so so, yeah, I'm lucky I get to do that.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: I use a modality called human design.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: I think we talked about that before, but I think it's very much like sort of what you're saying, that logical, like information, versus when you actually have sessions with people and learn their energetics.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: It's like letting them teach you right and integrating the knowledge that you have.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I think is a.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: It's just, it's like I don't know.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I feel like that imposter syndrome can kind of flare up sometimes.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Um, I don't know if you experience that, like like you said, when you hit a wall and you don't know how to help somebody.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: And then, coming back to that information, I don't know if that's something that you experienced.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: I definitely did in the first few years of being in practice I do.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I find I fluctuate.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: I think this is what learning is, and my experience anyways is vacillating between feeling like, oh, I know what I'm doing, I'm really good at this, and oh, I guess I don't know what I thought I did and I have a lot to learn and the bruising of the pride.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: But that's my experience of learning is, whenever I get to those points where I'm working with clients that are really hard or I don't know what to do or I'm at a loss that's usually right before I learn a lot.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: And then, when I've learned a lot now, then I started to feel kind of confident about what I'm doing.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: That goes on for a while until I get a client or situation I've never seen before, and then I'm stumped again and then I'm back to learning.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: But I think what happens eventually um, I don't know, I mean what's.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: What started to happen for me now is I'm more interested in the client and the process and the experience I have with them than I am in me being so smart or great or anything like that.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: I want them to do well and to change and heal in the way they want to.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: But if now, if something's going awry, I kind of get interested.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh okay, this is something I missed here, this is new and there's some discovery that can happen.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: It's kind of, you know, if every client you saw went through the exact same process and healed in the exact same way.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: A I don't think that that would be real because nothing living operates that way.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Not every person's the same, not every problem's the same, and B.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: I think that would be really.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's possible or real, but I also think it'd be kind of boring, honestly, if everyone was the same and everyone's problem was the same and everyone's problem changed in the same way.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: I think that's a very seductive idea, but I don't think that's reality.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: So that means when you get a client who has an experience that you've never seen before, or their processes, they're kind of growing in a different way.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like when you see those trees that are like bending and strange ways to get to the sunlight, um, it's really interesting and exciting and it's you get to explore with them.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Um, I think I think the heart, the big obstacle to that, is not getting pulled into their emotions and their experiences during the session.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: But I think that comes through just working with a ton of people.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: After a while it's just you kind of become a bit more impervious to it.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or you know yeah.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think if you're not like learning, you're not growing too Right.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely it's an evolution.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: I think it would be hard not to keep learning um I think you have to try not to learn.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: You have to just like close your eyes and just not not pay attention.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to stop learning.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Um, I think, anytime something doesn't go the way you thought it would, you, you're learning um that that happens a lot yeah especially in the process of healing yeah, well, I think a lot of people look at it as failure and it's like so like we have to reframe that entire.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: You know all everything that goes along with failure.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: You know, like even you know, I have my daughter's 13, my son is seven, but I watch them and she just like sometimes throws her hands up.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: She's like I can't do it.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: I'm like done and I'm like, but if you're, you're only done if you just literally quit, like it's always a lesson.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: But I think society teaches us that failure is like such a such a bad thing.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Well, it's painful.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I think failure can be painful, Um, but uh.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Carl Jung said there's no coming to consciousness without pain, which I think is true.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: The caterpillar has to dissolve to become the butterfly literally dissolves into a goo before it becomes the butterfly.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: So I think, I think, I think short-term discomfort is really important and a tolerance for it I think it's also really important.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: But we don't live in a society that encourages short-term discomfort at all, and so we have a lot of long-term discomfort because we don't allow for short-term discomfort.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: If you don't have short-term discomfort, it guarantees you're going to have long-term discomfort.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: It's one or the other Short-term discomfort is like going through the process of healing, or reading a difficult book, or going for a run or eating.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Well, again, I say this to clients all the time we'll be releasing an old emotion or we're going through a process and say this is really difficult, and I say well, you can either be uncomfortable for 20 minutes or you can be uncomfortable for the next 20 years.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: It's really your choice.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: I would always rather be uncomfortable for the 20 minutes, and that's kind of what failure is.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: It's uncomfortable for you know a little, you know it's uncomfortable for you know a day or an hour or whatever it is, but because of that experience you get to, you get to have a long-term gain.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Have you ever had someone, whether in your core work or hypnosis, that it's just like it doesn't work on, just from like their own resistance?
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Or I mean, I feel like if somebody is coming to you, they're willing to work on it, but You'd be surprised.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Some people come to heal.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a distinction there, because some people just want the pain to go away and other people want to heal, and those are different things.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Um, just wanting the pain to go away, that just means that that folks want the pain to go away and they're not necessarily interested in going through a process to heal.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: They don't want to feel the pain anymore and they just want to go away.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Um, and so people who come to me for that are not the people that I try to work with, and I tell people that upfront.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Um, but I kind of forgot your question.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Will you repeat it?
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: I forgot it.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Um, just if people, if you've experienced people who doesn't I'm air quoting like who it doesn't work on mainly from like their own, oh sure Sure.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Sure, or it's just the pain is too great, or I mean I it depends on how you define it Not working.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: I can't make someone close their eyes and go inside themselves.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: That's something that they.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: That's the bare minimum that someone has to be willing to do.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: If I've had clients who didn't want to close their eyes or go inside and we spent the first few sessions just talking and easing them into it and they couldn't even sit down and they were just pacing around and then we slowly got them to stop pacing and then we slowly let them close their eyes and then we slowly went inside and then things changed.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: So a lot of the time when people struggle like that, it's just a matter of giving them more time to go through the process.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: You know, some people just close their eyes and they take right to it.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Other people have spent a long time trying to avoid that inner experience and so to say we'll sit down and let's go there, that's really scary for them.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, everyone's experience of healing is different, so I couldn't say it just doesn't work for them.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Some people just don't want to do it, or it feels uncomfortable for them, or they're impatient.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: Those are two really big things I would say.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Fear and impatience are probably the two biggest hindrances to healing.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Impatience are probably the two biggest hindrances to healing.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: People either afraid that it won't work or, let's say, people make progress, they're afraid of losing it.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: They're afraid of losing the progress, or they're impatient.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: It's not working fast enough for them.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: That definitely can do it.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: I think a part of that is societal.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Part of that is people's expectations or even their tolerance level is a big part of it.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: But I'm of the mind that if you do something for a month and you feel 20% better, that means if you do it for five months you'll feel 100% better.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: So that's just how I think about it.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: If it's working, why not just keep doing it?
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: And it will keep working and you'll keep feeling better until you feel totally better.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Then you're done.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: But people don't think that way.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: They're one month in.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm only 20% better.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Let me go do something else.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Part of that is cultural.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: The other part of it is that they're afraid that they're not ready to go all the way, or they don't want to go all the way, or they don't wanna go all the way.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: They're scared to go all the way.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: I call those people modality hoppers.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: They'll do Qigong for a month and then they'll meditate for five days and then they'll do hypnosis and then they'll do the modality that you do and then they'll work with me and then they'll go see a traditional therapist and they'll go on medication.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: They're just in this feverish place where they're just so desperate to find an answer that they're not letting themselves actually move through a process.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Um, and those people are really scared.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: I find they're really scared and they're in this kind of feverish, chaotic kind of place.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, I was gonna say it's almost that it's like they just keep skipping because they are afraid to sort of actually see the results and do the work.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: You know, and I think like I don't know.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: That just makes me think of like new years.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: You know, everybody makes resolutions during this time and when we don't see these huge results within like the first few weeks, then a lot of times we just go back to the way things were.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, healing and change are kind of tedious and boring and um, but also very beautiful if done right.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: And I think again, this is really societal.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: I think people have an expectation that they could just go on one run once and they'll just be and feel different, and we can kind of thank our friends in marketing for that.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: That's just what we've been sold.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: We've been sold this idea that the only things that are good are things that are fast, easy, cheap, increased pleasure, decreased pain, with minimal effort or no effort.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: The more of those things that a product or an offering can fit inside of, the more people are going to want it.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: That's why pills are so popular, because it's literally almost instant.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: If you have insurance, it's relatively affordable, it takes no effort on your part, it increases pleasure, reduces pain.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: But I'm not saying that's a bad option for people, but it's definitely indicative of the society we live in.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: And so when you come in and say, well, we're going to move slow and it's going to be kind of hard or maybe hard at points, um, and it's relatively slow, you know, a few months is not a long time in the scope of your life, but if you compare a few months to literally half of a second of taking a pill.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: It's an eternity.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: And so part of the work of healing is to teach people what it is to heal and what that means.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: Because if you don't heal or change in, your symptoms, just go away.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: You're still the same person with, just without symptoms, but you kind of have to become a different person to not have the symptoms.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: That's really what needs to happen, and if you wanna not have them in a sustained way, otherwise all you're doing is you're repressing symptoms or you're just coping with them.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: Repressing symptoms or you're, or you're just coping with them, um, which is not the same as healing and how do we change that like mindset or how do we change people from going from the real quick?
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: You know results or you know perceived results I would say one person at a time.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: A part of the process of healing is teaching people what healing is, and that's part of it.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Not everyone wants to accept that, because while they're working with you, they're getting inundated with advertising and a lot of other things that are claiming to be instant and effortless and easy and fast and all these good things.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: So you may be explaining this to them and then they'll just jump ship and go somewhere else because it's easier and faster, but those things tend to get abandoned pretty quickly too.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: And then on to the next thing and it's just kind of a.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: It's essentially a cycle of consumption.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: You know, someone's just listening to the next podcast, reading the next self-help book, going and trying the next modality, and people are just kind of collecting them.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: And what can start to happen is if they don't actually experience a change.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: But maybe they experience these little moments of insight or these moments where they feel good they start chasing that.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: They start chasing that little, that high that they're getting from um, you know, from kundalini awakening, and there's all you know.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: There's all these sort of phrases or their ayahuasca ceremony that they did or, and all these things are good, but what happens is people just chase that high and then they move to the next thing, move to the next thing and they're just consuming and it's just a.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: It's like a product for them or it's like a bag of chips.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: You know, they're just're just taking it in because it gives them a quick hit of something and then, as soon as there's some effort or some need to kind of struggle through something, they pull away and go to the next thing where they can just consume it again.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: I think the solution is to explain this to people and say, hey, you could keep doing that if you want.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: It doesn't usually end very well or it doesn't end at all.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: It just goes on for the rest of your life.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: We have a term for people like that they're called seekers, spiritual seekers, which I always thought was a funny thing to call yourself, because seeking implies that you're not finding, you're just seeking.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: You haven't found, you're not a finder, you're a seeker and you're always searching and seeking, trying to find the next thing.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: So there's that.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Or you can get still go inside and kind of face the thing that you're scared to face and work with it gently and at a pace that you can move, and it doesn't matter if you move slow, as long as you're consistent and slowly you'll feel different and you'll be different.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: So that's the way that I like to work with people, and not everyone wants to work that way, and that's okay.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: But I find a lot of people who come to work with me are people who have already tried everything they possibly can and they're burnt out, they're fed up, they're exhausted, they think that there's no hope that they can't change.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: They're exhausted, they think that there's no hope that they can't change and at that moment they're ready to actually go in and do the work, which is often.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: What it takes is just someone just getting to a point where they they've kind of run out of options that's that's when, usually, when the pain of of staying the same outweighs the pain of changing, is when people will.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: that's unfortunate.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't, I don't like, I don way Um, but um, that's how it is for a lot of people and that's, that's okay, whatever brings them to the process.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: But my recommendation is, do it before it gets too painful, that's like.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: That's like starting to brush your teeth once they're falling out.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the beginning of my journey, I was very much that like I used to jump around to everything.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: It was like I wanted to like experience the most and like find the one thing that was like going to change everything.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: And there's like one tool that I would, you know, jump in and out of and never really saw results.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: But a lot of people did.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: And so I finally was like you know, I'm just going to commit you know three months to doing this every single day.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: And then it's amazing, when you actually do that, what comes out at the end of it.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: You're like, oh my gosh, like this subconscious belief is coming out.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Now I can work through this and it was always for me that actual cause.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: I think the action piece is so important.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: It's like if we've discovered a, like a subconscious belief, right, or we like no, we need to do something.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: It's always like the actual taking the action because it's uncomfortable, I always like shied away from, and then I realized, okay, you actually have to do the thing to tell your brain it's okay.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: And so when I actually started doing that, then I feel like everything changed.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you were applying it right.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: Just having the book on your shelf doesn't put the information in your mind.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: You got to pick it up having the book on your shelf doesn't, doesn't put the information in your mind.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: You got to pick it up, you got to read it.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: When you get five, you know I like to read, but even when I sit down to read, in the first five pages I'm I'm usually struggling, I'm like I don't want it.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: There's like this, like it's like moving through molasses.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: It's just like there's this, this, this muck that just every part of me wants to just shut it and put it down, and and then you move through that and then next thing you know you've read 30 pages and it's just you didn't even remember.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: You know you weren't even aware of it.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Um, I think that initial inertia is really common in in doing most things really.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: I mean even just like putting your shoes on to go for a walk or something.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: It's like like I don't want to, and then literally your foot gets out the door and you're happy that you did it you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's someone that I worked with, but she would always say, like, does it feel better to have done?
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: And I think that's the question I always ask myself when things like that right when, even if it's something like I don't want to go to the gym today and I'm like I know I'll feel better having done it, you know, or?
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: I don't want to meditate tonight.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: I don't want to meditate tonight.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: I know I'll feel better for having done it.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: And then it sort of like pulls me through that process or that like resistance of like actually sitting and doing the thing.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: But resistance is always worse than the act of doing it.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Um exactly.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Sure, you're familiar with the two minute rule.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: It's like if, when you become aware of something you need to do, if it would take two minutes, just do it the moment you're thinking about it.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: Um, because the the, the, the experience of thinking about it and knowing you need to do it but not doing it, is way more painful than just going okay, I'm just going to do it right now.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: I'm going to wash that dish or whatever it is, I'm going to take out the garbage or those kinds of daily things.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, absolutely, you know.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, do the thing, have the power.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: That's what Raffaldo Emerson said.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, and you mentioned tarot.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: Do you use that like within sessions, or is that just for yourself that you do?
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: I don't really use it in sessions.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: I find that tarot is like a great tool to learn how to read the symbolic world and learn how to access intuition.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: So I don't really use it formally anymore, but it taught me a lot and I do a lot of dream interpretation for clients and a lot of dream work with clients.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: But I find that reading a dream is very similar to reading the cards.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: I read the cards in a weird way.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: I don't use the predetermined meanings of the cards, I just let the images kind of work together and create an idea or a story.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: That's very much what dreams are, but I do really love the cards.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: I have them right here.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: I use these.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: These are the really old ones.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: They're old and ugly but I love them.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: I got these recently.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: they're just uh okay these are from the medieval times in france.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: Um, and these are, these are considered to be the kind of, you know, among the most original, the earliest tarot.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Here's the star okay and the fact that they're so simple simple is actually very helpful, because then you can do really interesting things with them.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is a classic example and I have a great teacher, if you're interested, he's a genius so this is kind of a classic example of what you can do with these kind of cards.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: This is just one example, and there's literally infinite of these.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Make sure, what you can do with these kind of cards.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: This is just one example, and there's literally infinite of these.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Let me make sure I'm doing it the right way.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, so you can kind of see here and this is just for fun, but you can see here in the Wheel of Fortune, here the wheel's turning and then if you look the handle that turns, the wheel is kind of um, going off the card.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: You can see it kind of flips over here kind of goes off the card, you can't really see where it's going yeah and let's say you pull this card next to it.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: Um, if you look over here, um, let me do it actually.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: No, it's over here.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: I inverted.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: The mirror image is messing me up.
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: Um, if you look yes, if you look here, this guy who has fallen over, if you look next to him, you see that red line yeah that's the lever of the wheel huh, that's cool so this, this guy falling out of the tower is turning the wheel that's sending this guy who's on top town, and this is, I mean there's like there's literally unlimited of the in here, and then if we even just try to make sure where this would be in for you Hold on Is this is this your left or your right?
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: That's my right.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, so it would be.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: It would be this one.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: So this is your left here.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, so here, if you look and you see her crown, it is the same as the top of the castle.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: And so you can see she's reading a book, and then her mind is opened.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: So there's so many ways to read these, but it kind of teaches you how to see things differently.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: It's a similar way of thinking and seeing as is in the unconscious mind.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: The unconscious mind operates through kind of a poetic logic almost like a childlike logic.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: It's not rational in the adult sense of the word If you're using that to interpret someone's dreams are you?
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: having them interpret it or them pull cards, or it's just like your own intuition with it.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: I don't use the cards to interpret dreams reading the cards taught me how to interpret dreams.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, so when someone shares a dream, I, I interpret it the way I would interpret, um, the images and the cards.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: But the images and the cards are not.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: You know, what I like about these early cards is they're not mystical.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: You have a woman in a chair reading a book.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: You have a building burning with people falling out of it.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: You have a woman sitting at a river pouring two vessels of water into it.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: These aren't, you know, these aren't extravagant or complicated ideas.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: You have a king and his throne very simple ideas.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: And so it kind of teaches you to take these simple ideas and interpret them in different ways and see how they change depending on their context, which is really what dreams are all about.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Right, if you're sitting in your first grade classroom and you are your six, your six-year-old self, that's a different dream than sitting in your first grade classroom as your adult self.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: So you're in the same environment.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: Nothing's changed.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: But the context has slightly changed because of your perspective of it in the dream, and so the meaning of it changes.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: And then, of course, it gets more complicated because characters come in and out and things happen and and.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: But it's definitely, yeah, it teaches a lot about unconscious thinking and how can?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: so?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: I, every single morning, when I wake up, I journal my dreams and sometimes I like look back and I try and interpret them.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: But I'm just like, I have no idea, Like it's just like they don't make sense and interpret them.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: But I'm just like, I have no idea, like it's just like you're just like your daughter they don't make sense isn't that just like your daughter yeah I can't.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know yeah, but I mean, I continue to write them down right, and I continue to spend some time with them, but I'm still, like you know, even especially if there's some that are like violent or I'm like whoa, what's my subconscious trying to tell me that I'm taken to this like extreme place that is so uncomfortable?
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: Well it's.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: In a lot of cases it's sort of telling you what's going on inside of yourself.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Your dreams are unconscious communications and so usually they are showing you how you feel, what you're perceiving and also, in many cases, in the context of healing, showing what needs to be worked on, what needs to be healed, but it can also show healing happening.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: I had a client once who had this dream where she was on a boat and it was on really stormy water and there was a storm out over the water and she was trying to hold on to the boat and she fell off the boat and drowned and that was.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: That was the end of the dream.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: And as we started working together and things started changing and she started to feel differently and sleep differently and her life changed in a lot of ways through the work we were doing, she started having a dream that she was on a boat and there was a storm, but she didn't fall off the boat.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: And then the dream became she was on the boat and there wasn't a storm and she was on the boat.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: And then there was a dream that she was on the boat and there wasn't a storm and there was a beautiful sunset and the water was still.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: And there was a dream that the water was still and there was a beautiful sunset and she was on the boat and she dove off the boat and went for a swim, and so that's kind of the same dream, but as you watch it progress over time, it shows a change inside of her, and so dreams kind of show you what is going on in yourself and you know it's the same with the tarot or with reading dreams or reading any kind of symbolic language.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: You look at it and there's that moment where you freeze up and you go I don't know what this is, and usually the answer is on the other side of that feeling and usually if you just stay with it a little longer, it'll become really obvious what it is.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: And what it means.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: It takes practice, yeah, that makes sense.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: I'm lucky, I've had a lot of practice.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll have to sit with my dream a few extra minutes next time.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just a couple.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I know we touched on emotions a little bit.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: I would like my final question, I guess, is like how do emotions tie into all this?
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: I know you said it sort of stores a lot of our memory within those like feeling tones and everything, but I guess, like how can we work with specifically our emotions when it comes to this work?
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a big question.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, how can we work with our emotions?
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: I think the first step is to not try to change them.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Don't change them, just honor them.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: Emotions are not to be solved, they're to be experienced.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: They're like messages, and so the best thing to do is to receive the message.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: And if someone's talking to you and they have something important to tell you, the less you listen, the more they're going to repeat what they're saying.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: And emotions are exactly the same way.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: So if you're listening to an emotion and you're trying to just change it or make it go away, or analyze it or judge it or whatever, you're not listening to it.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: And if you don't listen to it, it'll repeat itself.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: Usually just like with a person.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: If a person doesn't feel heard, they repeat themselves.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: But each time they repeat themselves, it gets.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: It gets slightly less nice, their volume goes up, they get start to get more irritated, they start to get kind of angry.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: Um, and that's kind of what happens to the emotions too.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: So that's a good place to start, which is very counterintuitive, which is really a lot of the things that I've discovered and developed in the last 12 years of working with clients is counterintuitive, which is that to change an emotion, the first thing to do is to not try and change it.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: That's a good place to start, but emotions are everything.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: I think emotions influence our behaviors and our thoughts and how we interact with others, and really everything.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: So it's a really important aspect of us.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: But a lot of emotions are bullshit.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: I call them I don't know if I can curse on here, yeah, you can I call them bullshit feelings, which are feelings that lie to us.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: They're not real, but there's truth in bullshit also.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard a spiritual teacher once say that emotions were just always lies, and I was almost so offended I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so emotional, but then I had to like so offended.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so emotional, but then I had to think about it because it's like in the moment I feel like in an emotional experience.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: It's hard to see clear right through that experience Some clarity in emotion.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I wouldn't say that all emotions are lies.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: That's not true at all.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: But I would again like when you get to that unconscious place, you can't deal in absolutes, you can't deal in definitives, because it isn't definitive, it's gray, it's foggy, it's amorphous, it's like dreams.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: So to say that it's always this way, it's just, you can't say that and it's even you couldn't even say that in regards to every single person is different.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: But then each time someone comes into a session with me, their experience is different.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: They feel different things.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: Different things come up.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: Even the way that their unconscious mind works with us is different.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: Sometimes their unconscious mind is kind of resistant, sometimes it's sassy, sometimes it's angry, sometimes it's despondent.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: So we're fluid, we're alive.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: So because we're alive, you know, so there's because we're alive.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: It means that there's no, there's no definitive, fixed answer, because anything that's fixed isn't living and so it can't be an answer for a living thing.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: So the answer needs to be just as fluid as the thing you're answering yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just having a conversation with somebody today and that's what it basically was like.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: There's so much like gray area and just like you know to think that it's like one or the other is is like it's.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: I can never wrap my mind around how some people just think it's just, it's just this way or it's just this way, I'm like, but there's so much in between.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, but there's so much in between.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all context dependent.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all context dependent and even meaning changes you know meaning changes like think about what a quarter meant to you, like like a coin, like a quarter meant to you when you were like eight years old.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: Now think about what it means to you now yeah the quarter hasn't changed yeah still 25 cents, but the meaning has changed because you've changed um.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's what healing's all about yeah, if you could leave like one piece of advice for anyone listening to either you know, start the work or be consistent, and you know, stick to it.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: What would it be?
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: um, start the work, or the work of healing.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: Um, I would say, be patient.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: I think being patient is a very uh, um, undervalued skill.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, be patient.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: And I also I believe that we're not.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: Healing is not the thing you do to get onto other stuff.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: Healing is what we're here to do.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: I think that's really what we're here to do, so I would try and have fun in the process, if you can.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: That'll make it more sustainable.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: Well, how can everyone find you?
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: How can they work with you?
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: I'll leave it in the show notes, but if you want, to let them know as well.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, um, I have a website.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: It's my full name, lucashandworkercom on there.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: My website is really bare bones, but it's just some testimonials, case studies type of thing, way to reach out to me and, uh, um, a newsletter.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: Um, if you want to just start to just kind of dip your toe in the water and sort of get to know each other, subscribe to my newsletter.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: There's a free option for it.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: That's where I send all kinds of writings and musings and just anytime I'm thinking about things or learning things, I try to write about that and share it.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: I'm still offering one-on-one work, so if people want to do that, they can set up a consultation call, which is basically a call for us to find out if it is a good fit to work together and iron out all the details.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: You can do that at my website.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: But the best place to start is the newsletter and then, if you want to take it further, we can talk and see if it's a good fit through the website.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, my newsletter is on Substack, but if you go to my website, everything's on there the newsletter, the way of reaching out to me, a little bit more information, some case studies.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good place to start.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: Perfect.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: Well, they can go.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: Click down below and it'll take them right there.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing your energy and this conversation.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: It's been a lot of fun.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks so much for having me, of course.