Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 217 - Kristen Wong - Partner Altitude VC

Transcript

Episode 217 - Kristen Wong - Partner Altitude VC · The BioHub - by Avetix

• 0:05
  So welcome back to another episode of the Bio Hub and
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  Avetix podcasts. Today I'm joined by Kristen
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  Wong, partner at Altitude Life Science Ventures.
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  Kristen brings more than 15 years of experience across life
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  sciences, having worked both large pharma and venture
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  capital. Before joining Altitude, she
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  held a series of roles at Bayer and today focused on investing
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  in emerging technologies. Altitude Life Science Ventures
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  is an early stage venture fund focused on backing innovative
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  life science companies. Now in this conversation, we'll
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  discuss Kristen's journey from farmer into VC, what Altitude
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  looks for in founders and technologies, the growing role
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  of AI in healthcare, and where she's the she sees the most
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  exciting opportunities emerging across life sciences.
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  Pleasure to have you, Kristen, How are you?
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  Hello, thanks so much for having me.
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  No, it's honestly it's a pleasure.
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  I just want to, before we get into altitude, I just want to
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  talk about your background because you now spend time both
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  operating inside large pharma and and investing in startups.
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  What originally attracted you to VC and also what did the
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  transition teach you? Yeah, so I studied biology at
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  Stanford because I really wanted to be close to like the science
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  and medicine in general. And I guess after that I started
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  working for Bayer for about 3 years because I really wanted
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  some like industry experience and just to really understand
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  how drugs were actually getting made and not just like read
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  about it 'cause I feel like I had been doing a lot about that
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  and during school. But I would say like pretty
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  quickly I kind of like noticed something like I was good at the
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  job, but I just didn't really feel like it was enough.
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  Like, not because like the company wasn't enough, just I
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  would say it's because when I felt like the scope was
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  enormous, but I just couldn't see like my edges in it.
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  So I just really wanted to kind of like see what difference I
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  was actually making. And back then, I think I was, I
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  was, I had a dinner with a couple of friends and I think
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  one of them said like almost in passing, like, have you ever
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  thought of venture capital? And at that point, I really
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  hadn't. But that question really stuck
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  with me. So I think what pulled me in
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  wasn't the finance side, like it was sort of the access, like the
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  idea that inside of like just like being inside of like a
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  company's pipeline where you could see like so many different
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  companies, like so many different founders, like a
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  putting like a ton of bets, like all at the same time.
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  And it was like really like the breath of it was the thing.
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  It wasn't like just like trying to like get the returned or like
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  prestige or anything like that. It was just like really being
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  able to have like real contact with ideas at the moment that
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  they're most alive before like anyone would even know that
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  they'll even work. And I think that transition
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  taught me was that like the operating experience gives you
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  something that I think like pure finance people like don't
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  necessarily have. Like I would say like I knew
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  what a functional lab actually looked like and like what
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  manufacturing looked like. And I knew what like a real
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  scientific program and like other manufacturing plant
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  actually required versus what just sounds like good in like a
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  pitch deck. And I think that grounding is
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  what I brought into venture that a lot of like analysts didn't
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  have at that time. So I wasn't just like reading a
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  slide, like I feel like I could evaluate the science and like
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  the process behind it. Yeah.
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  What? What do you think it was about
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  you that made that person recommend VC to you?
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  I think it was just, I think just coming from maybe just like
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  probably the Stanford and just like that side of things, I feel
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  like a lot of people just are. I think everyone just really
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  wants to be an entrepreneur. And I think at that time I was
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  always like trying to come up with like different ideas and
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  just like find like new things. Like, even though I was like
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  working for like a big pharma at the time, like I feel like I was
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  always like trying to come up with like something else or just
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  like always like look for new things.
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  And I feel like it's, I feel like I was always just like
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  trying to come up with, I don't know, just like, I guess a lot
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  of different ideas. But maybe because I always like
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  wanted to evaluate a lot of different things at the same
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  time. So I think it, maybe it was just
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  like me being kind of like ADD and just like wanting to do a
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  lot of stuff. And they're like, oh, maybe it's
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  like looking working for like 1 big company or even like one
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  startup might not be like the right fit just because I wanted
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  to like have like so many different like hands in like
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  different pockets at the same time that.
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  Makes sense. And then what?
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  What was the transition like from them big pharma into into
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  what is a small venture firm? Yeah, it was quite a big
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  difference because I feel like just it was because at the time,
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  like big pharma, you just see like one thing happening every
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  single day and you're doing like minor transitions.
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  Like it might be like one thing happens when you're doing the
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  manufacturing and you're like, wow, that just absolutely did
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  not work. Now we need to go and start
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  evaluating what went wrong during that that day of
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  manufacturing. And then you're just like
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  working with so many different teams at once and you're just
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  going through, it could be like the engineering, it could be
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  that those the people that are on the manufacturing floor and
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  you're just like really just trying to evaluate and just like
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  come up with like the different fixes for that.
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  And then you're going through the the whole bureaucratic
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  process of, OK, we need to make all these things we're changing.
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  SO. PS And then we're just, I would
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  say it's just like a lot of that every single day versus going
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  into venture where you're just like, I would say at the time,
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  like we're just like talking with so many different companies
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  at once. Like every single day.
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  It was like it could be different, like board meeting.
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  And I would always be if they're like listening it in on it or
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  going in and like chatting with the founders and just like
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  listening because at the time, like, like my GP, there was like
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  always like bringing me into these conversations and just
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  like letting me listen into everything.
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  So it's always just like hearing what all these companies were
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  just like, what do you want? What do you want to look like?
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  I guess when you're just growing and you're just like, what kinds
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  of experiments should you be doing to even become like the
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  company, like bear later on when you're when you're just like,
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  what does the the final like manufacturing really look like?
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  Yeah. And then I, you know, once
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  you've made your mind up about VC, that then comes the hard
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  part, right? Like, how do you break into VC,
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  which a lot of people aspire to do?
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  How do you think you did it? And then like, what?
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  What do you think most people get wrong when trying to break
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  into VC? Yeah, so I actually wrote about
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  this recently in my sub stack, Like I was always saying, like
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  there is no front door, like there's barely a side door.
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  And I think the people that a lot of people get wrong is that
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  they're spending all of their time looking for the door
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  instead of like trying to build a thing that makes someone want
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  to open it for them. So I'd say like the typical path
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  is like going to like a name brand school, like having like
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  the banking analyst seat doing and going to a really good like
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  MBA program. And then you move like laterally
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  into a fund. And that exists.
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  And it definitely works for a lot of people.
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  And I think that that part optimizes for credentials.
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  And I think when you're actually in the job, like the credentials
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  are not what the job requires. And so like for me, like I
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  didn't come from banking and I didn't go to like a name brand
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  like MBA program. Like I studied biology at
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  Stanford, worked for Bayer and then got into Venture because I
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  think I had like the three years of operating experience.
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  And I think that part really let me evaluate the science behind a
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  pitch deck. And I think that really mattered
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  more than like any credential on my resume.
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  And in general, like I think the job is forming A conviction
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  before the pattern exists. Like you're looking at a company
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  that might not work. And I mean, in venture, like it
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  probably won't work just based on like the percentages and
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  you're deciding to whether to back it anyways.
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  And I think that's like a completely different muscle than
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  what you can build like in like a banking seat or just like
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  studying this in like a case study classroom.
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  And you really can't necessarily teach it.
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  So you just build this through like proximity and just like
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  being close enough to like seeing like the real decisions
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  on just like seeing how they actually get made.
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  So I would say like, just like watching founders, like handle
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  the pressure and just like watching companies succeed and
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  fail up close. So in general, like I would say
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  like I always tell people to like stop optimizing for like 1
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  path and just like start trying to do like all of it at once.
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  Like apply absolutely everywhere.
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  So like if you're like in college or something, like
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  you're doing like a ton of like internships, I guess even like
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  in like high school too. But then like once you're
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  graduating, it's like get into like the operating roles, like
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  anything that like gets you into a like inside the company and
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  you're seeing like how like real decisions are getting made.
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  And like for me, like I applied absolutely everywhere.
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  And I also was like talking to everybody, like I was talking to
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  doctors, like buy and like buy and sell like a side analysts.
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  It was like talking to different startups, like and like
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  different lab techs. And I would say like the volume
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  matters because like every interview or like every
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  conversation, just like it teaches you something about what
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  the work actually feels like inside.
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  And I would say you like start to recognize where environments
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  fit before you've ever gotten the job.
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  And I guess also for like the VC, especially like in like the
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  life sciences side, like get the operational experience, like
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  work at like biotechs, like work in pharma, work in a startup.
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  Like it almost doesn't matter from like at the beginning just
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  because I think it's like more important to like see how the
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  different like I guess how did the different decisions get
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  made? So I would say like my years at
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  Bay are really like the reason that I even got considered for
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  this and not just the degree. And yeah, just like seeing how
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  like real scientific and commercial decisions get made.
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  And yeah, so I mean, in general, like if you want to show like
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  your judgement to someone with like the hiring power, then make
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  it. You could make it visible like
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  you can write your analysis of a company that you find
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  interesting. And I really think that's like
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  kind of like the layer on top, like it never would replace the
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  experience, but just like making the experience like legible to
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  someone who like hasn't actually like watched you do the work
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  before. So it's just like combining like
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  the operational like reps plus like some visible thinking.
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  And I think that's like what can really open like the door to
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  you. And like, either one alone, like
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  isn't enough. No, I agree like massively and I
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  think the other aspects of VC that people find really
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  interesting. It's just the the decision
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  making process with every opportunity We spoke about this
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  last time that you you talked about.
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  Can you just tell us what happened and how the decision
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  then shaped the way you then thought about investing in the
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  future? Yeah, yeah.
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  So a couple of years ago, I got really into like the whole DNA
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  like data storage side of things.
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  And I mean, the whole like, idea just kind of sounds like it's
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  made-up, but I promise that is real.
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  But yeah, so you, like, think about, you take like all this
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  like digital data that would fill up like different like
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  server racks the size of like football fields.
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  And then you can like store this into the size of like a sugar
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  cube and it can sit at room temperature like you no cooling
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  needed, no power and it doesn't degrade.
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  So it was like it was definitely like I always had a question of
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  like whether anyone could actually build it at something
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  that like runs at scale. So at the time I could found
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  this company catalog. So they had like real patents,
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  like real machines, like real progress.
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  And they spent a ton of time just like with the team and like
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  the science was sound and the opportunity was enormous.
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  And I genuinely like them but passed.
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  So I would say it was like, it wasn't like 1 disqualifying flaw
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  for it. It was just like the timing.
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  And just so like it had so many like open questions.
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  So like there were real like unknowns about like which
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  applications would prove out first.
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  And like how the technology road map would really like sequence
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  out. And the valuation at the time
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  had already like risen to a point where like the price of it
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  just like could no longer match like the amount of uncertainty
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  that I had at the time. So like, sometimes like a
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  company is good, but just like the moment and is just like what
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  I guess is still wrong. And the distinction I think
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  matters more than like what people think.
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  Like passing on a company that you don't believe in is really
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  easy, but passing on one that you genuinely admire just
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  because it could be like the wrong entry point or price or
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  just like too many questions at the time.
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  I think it's like the harder disciplines in the job.
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  And I think that's like where a lot of like the judgement
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  actually lives. So I don't know, I really
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  believed in the underlying thesis, so I kept just like
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  following it. And so like the DNA storage,
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  like you, it requires synthetic DNA produced at scale like with
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  like high accuracy and just like low error rates.
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  So I would say that capability. So it's like upstream of storage
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  and like a lot of like other, other like applications.
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  So while catalog was downstream, I started looking like different
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  companies that were upstream of this and on the production of
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  synthetic DNA. And at the time I was introduced
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  to a team that was, they were very scrappy.
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  They were like super technical and they're really good at
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  explaining it, what they were building and why it mattered.
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  So yeah, I back them and I would say like, that's definitely an
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  investment that I'm proud of. But I mean, the point is not
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  that I picked correctly, like we still don't know.
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  But I would say like the point is just like the judgement and
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  the job is not about like just like one company.
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  It's like about tracking a thesis over time.
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  And I would say like you figure it out like what you're actually
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  looking for. And then you might walk away
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  from a company that you like when the timing is wrong, but
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  you just stay like close enough to the space that sometimes like
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  the right entry point will come up where and it might be just
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  like something adjacent. But if you can recognize that, I
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  think that's like the muscle that you're working and like
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  over time. And I think that's not something
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  you can like build in a classroom.
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  And it's just like something that you can really just like
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  build over the years of like working in it.
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  Yeah. You mentioned sort of the
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  qualities of the people then as well, like that scrappiness,
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  Like what generally are you looking for in these founders?
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  Yeah, just like I would say like, well, definitely the
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  scrappiness and being able to just like pivot over time if, if
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  needed. But I would say it's also just
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  like the ability to communicate from, from the very first
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  conversation, like not just like being like whether they're
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  polished or anything like that, but it's like really being able
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  to explain like what they're building and like why it
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  matters, like what they need. And just like, and in a way that
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  it just like draws you into it and it makes you want to be part
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  of whatever mission that they're building.
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  So in general, like, I would say like the conversation isn't like
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  a soft skill in the job. Like it's really like the
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  mechanism on how like founders can like really like they raise
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  capital, they're bringing in talent, they're managing their
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  board and like, like aligning like the whole team.
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  And I would say like the founder who can't communicate clearly
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  will definitely struggle at all four of these things, like, no
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  matter how strong like the technology is.
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  So yeah, I would say like it's really, really important in life
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  sciences, especially like when the science is is genuinely hard
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  and it has to just like translate over like a bunch of
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  like different audiences. Like it could be like a really
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  like technical VC or could be like like on the tech side, or
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  it could be like on the science side.
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  And you just like like a brilliant scientist to who can't
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  make the company like legible to investors.
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  Like we'll definitely struggle and like one that can do both is
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  like really rare. And I would say like, definitely
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  like worth backing, let's say second is just like really like
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  the EQ under pressure. And just like the one that I, I
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  would say like this is like really hard to find.
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  Like like just like, because it's not something you can never
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  like see under credentials. So you could have like a perfect
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  resume and still like completely fall apart when something goes
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  wrong and something like always goes wrong.
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  So it's just like, what can they do when it does probably last?
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  But I would say just like being able to be coached, like not the
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  deference at all. Like I would say like you
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  definitely don't want a founder that who like agrees with like
• 17:53
  everything that a board says. But it's like being able to like
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  have their own view, like take input that take input that
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  challenges it. And it's like update it when the
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  input is better than like what their original position is.
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  So I'd say like founders who like treat every feedback as
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  like an attack is definitely unworkable, but the founders
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  that can like treat every like piece of feedback as an
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  instruction are also unworkable. So it's just kind of having like
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  a balance of all of this. Yeah, there's other aspects as
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  well, right, that are especially hard at the moment.
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  You take AI for example, that's become a big buzzword across the
• 18:35
  industry and there's a lot of hype.
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  How do you how do you then look at an opportunity that's talking
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  a lot about AI and say, you know, is this hype or is this
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  real sort of thing? Yeah, we're seeing so much of
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  this in our deal flow right now. And I would say that split is
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  like pretty clear at this time. Like there's a lot of companies
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  where AI is like the actual engine and like where the model
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  is like doing something that couldn't be done without it.
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  Like say like you're designing a novel protein from scratch and
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  like running thousands of experiments like autonomously.
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  And that's definitely real. And that's where we're we're
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  investing and they're companies where AI is like in the pitch
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  deck, but not necessarily in the product.
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  Like when you have like a machine learning team and they
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  have the language. But if you pull the AI out of
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  that and you see that the company still works like roughly
• 19:30
  in the same way. Like then you're saying, OK,
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  that's just a wrapper. Like you see, you see that quite
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  a bit actually. And that's like, definitely like
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  the fastest way to lose like VC, like attention in a meeting.
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  And like, I would say like the question that we're like trying
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  to ask is like, what can this company do that was like
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  literally impossible, like say like 3 years ago.
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  And if the answer is just like, oh, we're like designing like
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  what everyone else does. But it's just like faster.
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  Like I would say that's like just an incremental change.
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  But if like the answer that they're really giving is like
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  we're designing molecules that have never existed before, or we
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  can like run like thousands of experiments in the time that it
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  used to take to run like say, ten of these, I would say like
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  that's where like the real value is and like where we want to be.
• 20:20
  That's interesting. Yeah, that's really interesting.
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  You you've recently started writing more openly about
• 20:28
  venture capital, finance and and generally just some of the
• 20:31
  realities of the industry, which is why I was really excited to
• 20:36
  get you on. But like what, what motivated
• 20:38
  you to do that originally and what, what conversations do you
• 20:42
  think the industry still avoids having that you're you're being
• 20:46
  pretty open about? Yeah.
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  So I'd say like I would say like the honest trigger was just like
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  noticing that there was like a big gap between what I think and
• 20:56
  what I was like willing to say out loud.
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  And to see that gap was like getting wider the longer that I
• 21:01
  was like staying in industry. So like after like a decade in
• 21:06
  like I just had like a whole things that I just like, OK, I
• 21:09
  was like, OK, there's this is just like a choice that I was
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  making and not like constraint that anyone anyone was like
• 21:14
  imposing. And I would say that just like
• 21:17
  women in finance hedge constantly.
• 21:19
  Like we soften the opinion or we qualify the take and we make
• 21:23
  sure that like no one in the room really like feels
• 21:25
  challenged by what we're saying. And I would say that cost is
• 21:28
  really that like no one really understands like what you think,
• 21:32
  including like yourself after a while.
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  And I would say like writing was just like an exercise of like
• 21:37
  trying to reverse that and just like just saying like what?
• 21:41
  Just like saying what I really thought like in public and with
• 21:44
  my name on it. And just like, I wanted to see
• 21:46
  like what happened. And I would say, like, what
• 21:49
  surprised me is that what I was like most nervous to say got the
• 21:54
  strongest response. And I had this essay where I was
• 21:58
  saying that my firm paid for my MBA and I still really don't use
• 22:02
  any of it. And I think that got like over
• 22:05
  like 130,000 like impressions on LinkedIn.
• 22:07
  And and not because like the take was radical, but I think it
• 22:10
  was just because like, it was like something that a lot of
• 22:12
  people didn't want to say. I think one of the other
• 22:17
  conversations that the industry like avoids is that, or at least
• 22:22
  it was like, I would say it's like under explored is I would
• 22:24
  say like a founder transition problem.
• 22:27
  So I'd say like a lot of founders who start a company are
• 22:30
  not always the right ones to scale it.
• 22:32
  And it's definitely not like a criticism like whatsoever.
• 22:36
  But I would say, like some of the best founders that I've ever
• 22:39
  like met or like worked with are ones that I would say they know
• 22:42
  that about themselves, that they're like exceptional from
• 22:45
  like 0 to 1 and like say like after like 18 months or so, like
• 22:49
  they hand the company to someone else that can build the company
• 22:53
  from like the longer climb and just something new.
• 22:56
  And they're like professional company starters.
• 23:00
  And they're like, they're just great at that part.
• 23:03
  And I think it's like one of the most important piece of
• 23:05
  judgement that an investor develops.
• 23:08
  I think another conversation that people really avoid is how
• 23:14
  the industry talks about loss because like every VC has
• 23:17
  companies that didn't work and like hardly anyone wants to talk
• 23:21
  about just like the ones that just like that failed and no one
• 23:27
  explains like what they learn from this.
• 23:29
  And I would say the winds always get the case studies and the
• 23:33
  losses are silenced. Like they always like I would
• 23:36
  say like something I always say is like the the dead don't
• 23:39
  speak. And I would say like, it's just
• 23:41
  like the science makes the silence of that just like makes
• 23:45
  the whole industry Dumber because I think that's like
• 23:48
  really where the actual learning happens.
• 23:51
  So like I haven't actually written about like an essay
• 23:55
  about that yet, but I will. So a sub SEC is called like
• 23:59
  Kristen Wong and just my name. And I just try to talk about
• 24:03
  like the unhedged version of like how the industry actually
• 24:06
  works. And I would say like the thing
• 24:08
  that I would say, just like the learning that I would say is
• 24:13
  that everything that I'm afraid to say, it ends up like, it
• 24:17
  turns out that like other people were thinking like the same
• 24:20
  thing too. And just like waiting for
• 24:22
  someone else really just to go first.
• 24:24
  I. Couldn't agree with that more.
• 24:26
  If you're not following Kristen like it definitely do because
• 24:30
  you know, you come up with some some Nuggets that like people
• 24:34
  like you say, are generally thinking about but are too
• 24:37
  scared to say. But look, Kristen, it's been,
• 24:40
  it's been so good to have you on.
• 24:42
  This actually brings us to the final question, which is what I
• 24:45
  ask every guest. If you could have dinner with
• 24:49
  any scientist or innovator, past or present, who would it be and
• 24:52
  why? I would say, I would say one of
• 24:59
  the people that would I would have like dinner with, I would
• 25:03
  say it's probably like my biggest inspiration that I've
• 25:06
  had over like the last few years.
• 25:08
  It's not a scientist, but his name was like I guess was
• 25:13
  Alistair Urquhart. And I think a lot of people have
• 25:17
  not heard about him ever. And he was this like Scottish
• 25:21
  soldier that was drafted at like he was 19 and he survived like
• 25:26
  the death railway, like the sinking of like a Japanese hell
• 25:30
  ship. And then he was like five days
• 25:32
  alone on a raft and also survive like the atomic blast at
• 25:36
  Nagasaki. So I'd heard about him on the
• 25:40
  Founders podcast. And they say, like, listen to
• 25:44
  this when you're stressed. And I was like, OK, I did that
• 25:48
  like one of the days, like I was very stressed out.
• 25:50
  And I was like, OK, nevermind. Like absolutely nothing even
• 25:55
  close to this. But I think when they had
• 25:59
  interviewed this man, he's had said something that really stuck
• 26:04
  with me, where he said that he had seen two soldiers in the
• 26:09
  same condition and one would die and one would make it, and the
• 26:13
  only difference was willpower. And so I would say like, I keep
• 26:18
  thinking about this like when I'm evaluating founders and I
• 26:22
  guess also if I'm stressed out, but the ability to like keep
• 26:26
  thinking clearly when every condition like tells you to stop
• 26:30
  is really, I think the quality that separates like the ones
• 26:33
  that will make it. And so I'd say like, he's
• 26:36
  definitely the person I'd want to sit with.
• 26:39
  And because I think he like had held on to that belief for like,
• 26:43
  I think like 1300 days or something like that.
• 26:47
  And just I just would want to understand like just how I.
• 26:52
  Think that's such a good answer. Obviously not one we've had
• 26:55
  before as well, but like really good in terms of mindset to
• 26:59
  think about for sure. Lord, it's been an absolute
• 27:02
  pleasure. Pleasure to have you on,
• 27:03
  Kristen. Oh, thank you so much.
• 27:06
  It's it's always been wonderful. Everyone please like and
• 27:11
  subscribe to the Bio hub and and thank you so much again.
• 27:14
  Yeah. Thank you so much.