Latest / Adventure Sports Podcast / Ep. 1146: Sea Kayaking and Alpine Skiing with Chris Whittaker

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Ep. 1146: Sea Kayaking and Alpine Skiing with Chris Whittaker · Adventure Sports Podcast

0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for adventuring with us, as we discover what incredible athletes and outdoor enthusiasts are doing all over the world.
0:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Now here's your host, Kurt Linville.
0:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi friends, thank you for joining the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I have, as a guest today, someone that's been on the Adventure Sports podcast a couple of times before, 2020 and 2023, but it's been a couple of years since we have interviewed him.
0:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Chris Whittaker is the founder and operator of an organization called Global Shenanigans, where he guides people on adventurous trips around the planet.
0:44
[SPEAKER_01]: He was on episode 902, back in 2023, for C. Kaiak in the inside passage, and I believe we did a replay of that one a couple of months ago, so that might sound familiar to you.
0:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, in 2020, his episode was on the life of full-time adventure, and I think we're going to revisit some of those themes today, along with maybe a how-to.
1:08
[SPEAKER_01]: If you are interested in having a less conventional life path and experiencing life more adventurously and maybe more richly and fully, then that's what we're going to dive into today.
1:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Chris, welcome to the Adventuresports podcast.
1:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me on cut.
1:25
[SPEAKER_02]: A funny thing as you were just mentioning that I was thinking that the times that I've been on before actually what I'm doing right now didn't even exist at that time.
1:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't have global shenanigans the first time I came on so it's quite an interesting
1:39
[SPEAKER_02]: almost like history, I guess, sort of going back over those years and kind of hearing the topics that we spoke about.
1:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna have to go back myself and listen to some of the things I was talking about and seeing like what was I making any sense did it come true?
1:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it would be very, very interesting.
1:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I saw somewhere online that you've been guiding sea kayaking for much longer than that, even all the way back, was it 2012 something like that?
2:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I started in the Outdoor Industry in 2012, which was just after I finished high school.
2:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't go to uni, I started doing this as a gap year, and then I kind of fell in love with the outdoors, realized you could make this a career, and I suppose I'm still on my gap year now, and I've realized that there's a few other things to do instead.
2:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I got into Outdoors in 2012, specialized in sea kayaking, probably 2017,
2:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I started my own business in 2020 or maybe 2021 as obviously with the global lockdown 2020 wasn't the best time to start an adventure tour company, but yeah, that's been the progression from the beginning until now.
2:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So a 13 year gap year in counting.
2:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I'm going through it's pretty good.
2:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I have a feeling I might not be going to uni haven't sent any applications off just yet for 13 years Chris like I know there are a lot of people right now who kind of set up a little straighter and said really he's been able to do adventures instead of an office career path instead of uni and he's making a go of it and he's traveling the world and that offers a lot of inspiration I think for a lot of people.
3:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And one thing about the Adventure Sports Podcast, we're not encouraging people to quit your day job and go be a flanderer around the planet, but we do encourage people to live life more richly, more deeply, to get involved in an adventurous lifestyle for the sake of health and better living and mental soundness and
3:37
[SPEAKER_01]: community and, you know, it just all the things that can come from interacting in the adventure industry.
3:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you mentioned, uh, Gullish and Anagans didn't exist back in 2020 with your first interview.
3:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You hear the term adventure sports?
3:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of, it comes around all the time now.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It has a classification for all the various adventure sports.
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had never heard that term prior to the adventure sports podcast when we founded it 10 years ago.
4:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if we coined the term, or if it just wasn't popularized, Benel, if you say adventure sports, everyone knows what you're talking about.
4:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And this real this in a little bit before I ramble.
4:16
[SPEAKER_01]: What has it been like to have an adventure based lifestyle for more than a decade now?
4:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess an important point to note before we dive in, like you mentioned, is that I think the life I have or the lifestyle or the way I choose to live it and do it is at one extreme end.
4:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not for everybody going full-time for such a long time, however, as some inspiration for me, people that want to do it for a year or two, or maybe a more normal gap here,
4:52
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to go fully extreme the way I've done, but it is an interesting option maybe for people who
5:00
[SPEAKER_02]: want to experience something like that and maybe they aren't really sure what to do with themselves or they've never been that academic and going to universities, not being that realistic.
5:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And as long as there's anything wrong with that, I know a lot of people in the outdoors who have gone to uni and have got degrees and it's a good way of getting into the industry, but it's not the only way and that's kind of the point over this conversation, I think.
5:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So for me, I guess the the draw of this lifestyle is I really enjoy
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: the change I like going from season to season, I teach no boarding in the winter time and I have done for 13 winter seasons.
5:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I think going into my 13th and I could never imagine not doing that but I also love sea kayaking just as much.
5:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I love being on the beach.
5:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I really enjoy surfing and traveling.
5:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So I really like the opportunities that the outdoor industry and adventure travel
5:56
[SPEAKER_02]: has given me and has in front of it that there really is something for everybody.
6:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I just happen to like a lot of different activities, but if you're really into say sailing, you could quite easily live a life as a sailor and travel the whole world and do sailing-based adventures in whatever country you can get to really.
6:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So for me I really like the change.
6:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I like keeping things new and interesting and fresh and moving around has allowed me to do that.
6:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Where I get to the end of the winter season say and I can't imagine anything better than just going to a hot country and putting my bare feet in the sand and getting in the water and that's all I want to do.
6:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And then likewise midway through the summer I start
6:42
[SPEAKER_02]: fantasizing about all the tricks that I definitely can't land, but I just want to go and do that next.
6:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know, there's always some kind of drive for the next thing, or always looking forward to the next thing, which at the same time is important to, you know, enjoy where you are and what you're doing at the time, but I think I just always, I always want to do another thing, and I'm always looking forward to more and new adventures, and
7:06
[SPEAKER_02]: more travels, which I guess has kind of led to the work that I've ended up doing.
7:11
[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of a lifestyle does it feel like to you?
7:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people think of what you just described in its sounds kind of exotic, or, well, how does he make a living or a holy cow?
7:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Can he have a family and, you know, is a lifestyle?
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: What does it really like?
7:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It is definitely different and unconventional, but something that is quite fascinating that
7:31
[SPEAKER_02]: you don't really understand that to it in it is that you're not the only person doing this and there's actually a network of people just like you all around the world.
7:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So for the example of the skin history, I guess.
7:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I went back to Japan last winter for the first time since 2015.
7:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And I got there and I had nine or ten friends in the village already in the main town before even got there.
7:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So I knew they're going to be there.
7:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're bumping into people from
7:58
[SPEAKER_02]: seasons in Canada, seasons in New Zealand, friends from France came out.
8:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So it seems like it might be quite lonely and you're the only person because you're just going everywhere that how do you make friends, how do you make connections?
8:10
[SPEAKER_02]: But actually there's this worldwide network of people who do similar stuff and
8:16
[SPEAKER_02]: obviously it's sad that you get to the end of the winter and you say goodbye and you go separate ways.
8:21
[SPEAKER_02]: But chances are if they're a career instructor, you're going to see them again.
8:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a really good friend of mine.
8:27
[SPEAKER_02]: We've done five winter seasons together.
8:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Not even intentionally, we've just happened to have done them at the same places.
8:34
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been roommates a number of times.
8:36
[SPEAKER_02]: We've worked in
8:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I think free different countries, but you just meet people who are similar and you kind of have the same kind of transient lifestyle and kind of make it work that way.
8:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is kind of a side question, but since you've taught snowboarding in a lot of places, what's your favorite?
8:55
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a good question.
8:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say for work, my favorite place I've worked at would be Whistler in BC.
9:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not only you know a world class mountain, the biggest in North America, but it's it's really good for work because it's such a big ski school.
9:12
[SPEAKER_02]: You can really specialise.
9:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So
9:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I, in the last few years, specialise in private snowboard lessons and I mostly teach intro to off-peasts, tree runs, terrain park and that kind of stuff so it's allowing me to specialise in a very specific type of lesson so I get to do.
9:31
[SPEAKER_02]: What I'd probably do if I had a day off with my friends except before I drop into a run, I just tell the person next to me, hey, this is how I'm going to do it.
9:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to go this way and do this and that and then at the end of the run, I give them a bit of feedback.
9:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So, we're slowly probably going to my favorite to work out.
9:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And then in terms of actual number of amazing days in one season, it would be Japan.
9:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was working in the Seco last winter, I'll go back again this year.
9:58
[SPEAKER_02]: The Seco was incredible, but there's a lot of smaller results quite nearby that are just a short driveway, like Rasussu, Kuro and some others that get just as good snow about as big a crowd.
10:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So pretty whistle of work, Japan for the snow.
10:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I have knots.
10:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I've heard all about it, but I have not been that.
10:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was kind of curious what your thoughts might be since that's our local ski resort here.
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And for those who don't know, Crested Butte was, well, it's arguably the first ski resort to open extreme train in bounds.
10:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And they have a vast amount of extreme terrain, though you have to work to get to it, you know, you're going to be, uh, you're going to be hiking or skinning or, you know, traversing across a lot of slopes to get to some of this world class epic amazing terrain, but it's not known for or having the best snow in the world.
10:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It's known for having amazing cliffs.
10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, we have so much
11:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, back to the lifestyle.
11:03
[SPEAKER_01]: When did you make the decision?
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think I want to do this long term.
11:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually didn't necessarily set out with a plan to end up where I am and doing what I was doing.
11:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of been a lot of winging it and just figuring things out season to season year by year.
11:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember particularly in the early days, it could be quite stressful of every season ends you have to apply for another job and then it's just a constant six-month rotation of always job-seeking, always looking for visas.
11:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
11:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I was never totally sure I'd want to do it forever.
11:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I just was kind of riding it while I was still enjoying it and didn't really have a huge plan, but it's probably in 2017.
11:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Our 1718 is when I start to have the idea of building what came to be global shenanigans, which is my own adventure tour company.
11:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And I had that idea because I was working in Sicily as a cat guide for the summer,
12:00
[SPEAKER_02]: who is French lady and she brought her own groups and she just took all of our equipment and she did the tour that I've been doing all summer, but with her own French speaking group.
12:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And I asked my boss about her, like, who's this lady, like, how does she know where to go and all this stuff?
12:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And he explained she's a cat guide and she runs tours all over Europe and she takes people to,
12:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Sicily into Norway and wherever else.
12:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is what planted the seed of you could be a guide have your own groups and just go and do the best tour at every country and the world that you can think of and you get to do all the best stuff of the outdoor industry so the top tour you don't do time and time again so you don't get bored of it because it's always fresh noise new.
12:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can really just create your own schedule.
12:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So in that moment is when I wanted to make my own company, and that prolongs me in the outdoors, so I started working towards that, and started thinking about that, something that's a build on, and then,
12:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I suppose once I launch global shanigans and start against some trips, that's when I realized, you know, this is the next level.
13:07
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what can take me from kind of broke back packer, season air person who just does seasons, spends all my money on traveling and has nothing in the bank.
13:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So now this is a legit company, you can earn some like real person kind of money, you can actually create savings and build more of a realistic adult life, I guess, that's more than just kind of a like a ski bum traveling around doing stuff, you can kind of create more of a career.
13:34
[SPEAKER_02]: and a natural job here.
13:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there are many ways to make money in the outdoor industry and I've talked to a lot of people who say, don't make your fun your job because then your fun will become, you know, a job.
13:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But I've talked to so many other people who say, oh, no, no, no, no, no, that's completely wrong.
13:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
13:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Do what you love and be good at it and it'll turn into something.
14:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the the opposite of that is if you do something you love, you'll never work a day in your life.
14:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So I really kind of mean more towards that side.
14:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I do totally understand why you might not want to ruin something special by making it a job.
14:16
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think it's about the balance.
14:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I know plenty of people in the outdoors who are the best guides, so good at what they do, but they become burnt out because they work too much or they don't upscale
14:29
[SPEAKER_02]: or they don't change anything.
14:30
[SPEAKER_02]: They just go and do the same season at the same place, two, three, four, five years in a row.
14:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And then like, yeah, I'm done.
14:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to go do something else.
14:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna become a carpenter or a plumber or whatever it may be.
14:43
[SPEAKER_02]: and they've become burnt out, but I feel for me because I've always done summer and then winter and then summer and then winter and then I travel in between and I do some other activities as well.
14:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that has helped prevent burnout because I'm not doing back to back winters and I'm not doing back to back summacies and kayaking and I've done a number of different jobs in the outdoors, different activities and different countries.
15:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
15:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that is something that's helped at stay enjoyable that I'm also enjoying each area just in the same way that the guests are.
15:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's always a sign that I joke with guests when we're kayaking.
15:20
[SPEAKER_02]: When you see me or the other guides, when you see us take our phones out and take photos and take videos.
15:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's the sign that your guide is really enjoying what they're doing because they are still capturing the moment
15:37
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, whatever it may be, they're still, they want to take a photo just like you are because they want to send that to their friends or family or they want to just preserve that memory.
15:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that's something I find myself doing a lot like I've captured every trip.
15:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I just really enjoy it.
15:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm still in the moment and enjoying it.
15:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Just as as one of the guests and like can't believe I'm getting paid to be there.
15:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I looked at your website before we started to see what you were up to a little bit and I saw the list of adventures for 26 and a lot of them
16:06
[SPEAKER_01]: and you're going to have a variety of amazing places, just so people get a feel for the lifestyle.
16:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Not an advertisement, but what kind of places are you headed in 2026?
16:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's pretty mental.
16:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually can't believe it myself.
16:20
[SPEAKER_02]: It's taken quite a few years to build to this point, and this is the first time.
16:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Finally, the trips are selling out
16:28
[SPEAKER_02]: so far in advance.
16:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been a goal for ages is to have trips sell out the year in advance and now at least two, almost a third one is sold out a whole year.
16:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is crazy.
16:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't take it for granted.
16:42
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, a few of the spots ever a space camp.
16:46
[SPEAKER_02]: in May, Baha in May, as well actually, it's a Baha Mexico.
16:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Curgustown, which is a new trip, Croatia, Sicily, Kilimanjaro, and yeah, just like all over the place, really.
17:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So some of these are tricks, climbs, sea kayaking, what are you doing in these locations?
17:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly what you said.
17:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So there were multi-day trips kayaking in Mexico, Croatia, Sicily.
17:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So those ones are a pretty chill.
17:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I really enjoy those because it's a lot more relaxing.
17:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more about just hanging out on the beach, swimming, snorkeling.
17:21
[SPEAKER_02]: These are all six day tours, especially in Mexico.
17:24
[SPEAKER_02]: We're looking for wildlife.
17:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You get some crazy dolphin encounters, whales as well.
17:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's really fun, like a love wildlife, so that's definitely a favorite.
17:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the trekking tours, there's obviously a goal of where we're trying to get to.
17:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So Kilimanjaro trying to get to the summit in the pool.
17:39
[SPEAKER_02]: You're trying to get to Everest or Anaparna based camps.
17:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So those ones are actually a lot tougher.
17:44
[SPEAKER_02]: physically and mentally.
17:46
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's just a whole different type of fun, I guess.
17:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm sure people listening no type two and type free fun, all that kind of stuff.
17:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of covers the whole board.
17:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's say that, well, let me let me only ask this a different way.
18:01
[SPEAKER_01]: What advice do you have for the the 2012 Chris knowing what you know now?
18:07
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a good question.
18:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I would definitely not stress and not threats about what's to come, knowing that winging it and just figuring out as you go is perfectly fine.
18:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And now that I know more about the real world, I realize most people are just figuring things out.
18:25
[SPEAKER_02]: as they go year on year, but you don't need any kind of plan long time you can just do what seems best in the moment.
18:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I would also get started a bit quicker.
18:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I did two maybe free seasons in the UK before I left and started traveling properly.
18:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I was in a relationship at the time.
18:46
[SPEAKER_02]: and I guess I realized that the whole point of being in the outdoors was so I could travel the world so once that ended and I did this properly and started traveling you know really really got the the first for it so I'd probably just get into it a lot quicker, get into exhibition stuff a lot quicker but I mean I didn't know what I was doing, I didn't know anyone else that worked in the outdoors so for me at least it felt like I was figuring it out
19:11
[SPEAKER_02]: on my own or by myself, like I'm not from an outdoor background.
19:15
[SPEAKER_02]: My parents don't do any outdoor stuff, we never went camping.
19:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Neither of my parents ski, we never did ski trips or anything like that.
19:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So I got myself into this age 18 for some of stuff and then 21 for winter season stuff.
19:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's why I felt a little alone and trying to figure things out for myself.
19:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But for everyone else now, you know, there's so many resources online, there's so many options.
19:41
[SPEAKER_02]: From the comfort of your own home, you don't even need to leave the country, and pretty much everywhere.
19:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, no, everywhere I've worked, I've always had the job lined up in a different country before I've even left my home.
19:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a very structured, safe way of doing it.
19:56
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to turn up and just figure it out and a brand new country coming fresh off the plane.
20:02
[SPEAKER_02]: You can actually get your visa and your job and your whole season lined up.
20:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Long before, so there's a very, uh, dollar safe, comfortable way that you can find these kind of things and and see if it's for you.
20:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like he started with seasonal work, of course.
20:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the outdoor industry, that's usually what happens, because it's either summer or it's winter and the sports are related to those.
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But you found a way to have things to do year round.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And how important do you think that is for someone to succeed at this?
20:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's obviously important to be able to support yourself year round.
20:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't necessarily need to be in the outdoors all the time.
20:43
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people I know,
20:44
[SPEAKER_02]: who actually, they want to work in the outdoors, but the constant travel side of things isn't for them.
20:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Dispacing in one place and finding a different job in the off season, you know, that's probably what.
20:56
[SPEAKER_02]: 90% of the career instructors I know actually do is they will work, say, as a ski instructor in whatever resort all winter long and then in the summer they still live in the resort but they'll do something else.
21:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of people work in landscaping, a lot of people work in sort of construction that kind of stuff, slightly more high-paying jobs and that's what pays their bills and that's what earns them the money and then the winter season is kind of a bit more
21:26
[SPEAKER_02]: and you get to go ski plus 100 days a year.
21:29
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot more of a realistic way for people to do it.
21:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the way I go where I instruct all year round, that's actually...
21:38
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, quite rare, particularly to me, moving all the time.
21:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I think, you know, not being afraid to just have a normal job as well, or even whatever your career may be.
21:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, you can actually still do that plus outdoor stuff in the main season.
21:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So, a ski results, for example, they always hire more people during the holidays.
22:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of people, they just do holiday like Christmas, Easter and whatever public holidays, you get your free ski pass, you get a bit of money, you get an intro into the ski world, you can gain qualifications, but you can still do whatever it is your regular career is.
22:17
[SPEAKER_02]: at the same time and then you sort of dabble a little bit and decide which one you want to do or just be both.
22:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
22:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a lot of thoughts bouncing through my mind as I was imagining that lifestyle.
22:29
[SPEAKER_01]: One thought that I had is, and I see it where we live.
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: People go on vacation and they have a very unique experience doing something that they don't normally do.
22:39
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's so fresh and exciting.
22:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But then if you end up guiding it, doing it every day, that's going to be a different dynamic.
22:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was thinking about skiing as an example.
22:48
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people come to Colorado or whatever the resort is, you know, the location.
22:53
[SPEAKER_01]: A ski, if it's a bad ski day, maybe they knock off early and it's beer 30 already and maybe they find a hot tub or whatever the
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you're guiding, you're out there during the bad day when the conditions aren't very good.
23:08
[SPEAKER_01]: When it's way too cold or you're out there because you're caring for other people.
23:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So you don't really have a choice to make it easy on yourself.
23:17
[SPEAKER_01]: How did that change the way you felt about snowboarding?
23:20
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a tough part of it.
23:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously when it's a powt of day, you can pick any run on the mountain and it's going to be fantastic.
23:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes life very easy.
23:32
[SPEAKER_02]: People then realise what might surprise them is when they turn up to the session that they've booked, they're expecting the conditions to be rubbish, they've seen the forecast, they've heard the rain on their window at Lowe Mountain and they're only here because they've paid for it.
23:49
[SPEAKER_02]: but that actually gives you an opportunity to go beyond and for them to realize that you can actually have an amazing day on the mountain regardless, because you can find the secret stashes, you can find the nor facing aspects, you can kind of use whatever local knowledge you have, the secret spots, find the powder stashes like seven days after it's actually snowed.
24:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes you get people that have had the best of the other because they say literally as you did, they're like, if we hadn't paid, we would have stayed in bed and not even come up the mountain, but we've just had the most amazing day doing this and that and going here and there.
24:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm not saying that's possible all the time.
24:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Some days it really ish and you just have to admit that it's not a good day.
24:30
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's just kind of how it is, but a lot of the time you can actually still have a really fantastic day, just by going to those spots.
24:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Or I suppose another level is the guest service of it, is just accepting that you know, lower our expectations.
24:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to be the best day, but we can still, you know, set you up for the rest of the week.
24:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I still show you.
24:53
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, come back to this place in two days time when it's snowed and it is going to be really good or go here and there and you can kind of pass on some information to set them up for the rest of the week even if it's not actually doable in that moment.
25:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, it is still part of that there are days when, you know, you're in your head, you're just on the chairla thinking, you know, please just call it, please just decide to go for a beer, you know, like you, you're just as wet as I am, you know, we're all getting rained on.
25:22
[SPEAKER_02]: you're not wearing Gore-Tex, neither am I, like, we should be done soon.
25:26
[SPEAKER_02]: But it is what it is, you just kind of deal with it.
25:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all part of the fun.
25:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do actually quite like in a weird way, being out in the worst weather, from the biggest storms.
25:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And when it is, you know, like, minus 30 Celsius.
25:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit, but it's not too far from the sand.
25:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Similar.
25:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And so in those, like, real cold snaps, I'd actually prefer to be on the mountain working, because if I'm not working,
25:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's better to be up there and you're kind of in there facing it and
25:57
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you're in the arena, kind of figuring out we'll be able to have an instructor.
26:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know, I kind of enjoy it in a, in a way, by you mentioned by last my train of thought on that one.
26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me, let me come back to this one.
26:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people aren't people people.
26:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're going to be a guide for you're trying to give others a really great experience, whether it's in a sea kayak around the mountain and conditions can get harsh and people can get cranky, what advice do you have for people, how much of a people person do you need to do
26:27
[SPEAKER_02]: You definitely need to be empathetic and understanding of where other people are at.
26:33
[SPEAKER_02]: You need to be able to read the room and do things for them, not for you.
26:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I was just saying earlier, you know, sitting on the chair, if wanting to end.
26:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not the one that makes that call.
26:43
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to, you know, suck it up and just deal with it.
26:45
[SPEAKER_02]: If someone wants to be out because they've paid a lot of money to be there, you're just going to have to be there and still put on a, a smiling face and try and be positive.
26:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you definitely just have to accept whatever situation you're in.
26:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to sometimes hold your tongue a little bit when it comes to certain discussions.
27:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I've had people with strong political or whatever else ideas that might not be the same as mine, and you kind of just nod your head and just realise that you're not there to argue, you know, just let people people are entitled to their opinion, so let them have it.
27:23
[SPEAKER_02]: try and listen to people and sometimes you're a bit of a therapist, people are going to unload.
27:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's actually quite amazing how much people share with you because you're someone who they feel friendly with who doesn't know any context or any of their life, so you'll tell you about their family and their wife or their husband and all their stuff that they're going through, because you're the someone that's going to listen and you just have to be there to listen.
27:52
[SPEAKER_02]: really extraverted to do this kind of job and you need to be like so bubbly and loud.
27:56
[SPEAKER_02]: But actually, you know, I'd argue it's the opposite.
27:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm naturally an introvert and I think that works better because I'm happy to listen and I can say the minimum I need to say to get a conversation going and let people talk and I'll just kind of sit there and listen and let them go for it.
28:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I think sometimes the extraverted guides can almost be a bit much for some people.
28:18
[SPEAKER_02]: They kind of can't calm it down.
28:21
[SPEAKER_02]: See, you definitely need to be good with people, but what's good with people is different in so many ways and I guess the big part is as playing to your own strengths and your own personality and, you know, some people are better with kids, you know, me and not so much, but some people are so good at it and like those people should do lots of kids lessons because they thrive in that situation, they're real natural entertainer, wherever
28:46
[SPEAKER_02]: However, for me, I'm more of a, you know, I'm good at listening, I'm good at talking about a lot of topics and I can just let people chat themselves and just kind of go with the flow and be a bit more easygoing, I think.
28:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
28:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that, that was some unique insight.
29:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I kind of got a picture of what your days are like on the ski lifts.
29:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that in it, that's more meaningful to me because of so many times we hear people just talking about.
29:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I get to, I get to ski a hundred days a year and nissage radical and I go to these great places and then I meet all the greatest people in it, but the reality of it is that you're doing real life on the ski slopes.
29:26
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it, and a lot of the time is on the chairlift, if you think how many minutes you had clocked per day on a chairlift, and now imagine that we've come.
29:35
[SPEAKER_02]: that someone that was a complete stranger at the start of the day, as a long time to sit there in silence if you don't fill it.
29:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So you do need to find ways to talk and get through that and then you have a coffee break and then you have lunch.
29:49
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a big part of it is the personable skills that, actually, I even say that's the main part of the job is the personable skills.
29:57
[SPEAKER_02]: No one cares if you can do a backflip or
30:00
[SPEAKER_02]: 720 or you can spin on and off of a rail like it's not.
30:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not impressive to someone who's booked a guide, you know, they want you to give them the best day possible, not show off like how good you are.
30:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, it's fine, it's funny.
30:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess further in your career as a skill, so when instruct you do a lot of advanced ski and snowboarding on the mountain, but at least to begin with, you don't actually do a whole lot, you know, you're more kind of standing there, you do one
30:28
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the people that are actually skiing so well in the most of the people that work at the restaurants and the bars and the rentals they just go up in a free time they'd have ride hard all day long instructors are on the hill a lot, but you're not actually, you know, riding to your full ability, you know, maybe 10% 20% in the whole day maybe more than that with a high level group, but not a whole lot of actual like high level riding it's a lot more of a
30:53
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, personal skills and it's all about the guest, you know, that's the whole point.
30:57
[SPEAKER_01]: When I first moved to Colorado, I invited all my old friends, you know, come on up to Colorado and teach you how to ski.
31:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be great.
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll just, you know, we'll go skiing together.
31:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll show you how to do it one season.
31:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I had skied probably eight or nine days, maybe 10 days, and then it occurred to me.
31:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I hadn't skied yet.
31:16
[SPEAKER_01]: all I did to stand on the snow and try to help people learn how to ski and I loved it because I love my friends and it was a great way to be together, but it just the realization of this is not skiing, right?
31:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not what I do when I ski.
31:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So
31:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I got to Japan last winter, and I had a friend should be in there the season before, so I messaged her and said, hey, we should meet up, let's go for go for some laps, and you can show me all of your best spots.
31:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And this was like a month into the season and her second season there.
31:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, oh, actually, I was hoping you'd show me your spots, because I've been on the magic carpet all month, and most of our season as well.
31:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Only teaching beginners, so like she didn't even know the mountain yet.
32:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
32:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's something.
32:04
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a little different.
32:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what about pitfalls for this career path?
32:08
[SPEAKER_01]: There have to be things to watch out for that will cause you to wash out or to not succeed.
32:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess, you know, a big thing of seeing being used to being transient, being used to kind of doing your own thing quite a lot.
32:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I've always been quite an independent person.
32:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I've always been happy in my own company.
32:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's something I'm fine with and I can deal with, but for a lot of people, you know, kind of facing the world by yourself.
32:30
[SPEAKER_02]: time and time again as you move around can be tricky and I suppose the acceptance of change quite regularly you know the season changes all the time your best friends leave people you've been spending 24-7 with four to six months they go so for a lot of people that is actually like quite crushing and they do struggle with those moments and obviously you know for me as well like
33:00
[SPEAKER_02]: anyone who's genuinely your friend, you'll stay in touch with or you'll see again.
33:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not a big deal.
33:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess other kind of pitfalls or struggles might just be the overworking side of it.
33:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's probably a common one for a lot of people that they struggle to say no or they feel like they need to always do something so they are working working working and then the days off go go go as well.
33:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So this can lead to mental difficulties of just pure exhaustion, and then also physically high risk of injury.
33:35
[SPEAKER_02]: That's something definitely, I mean we've spoken a lot about the ski world, but that's where it's the most apparent is people getting injured and if you're injured too badly then that's it season's done and you have to go home.
33:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So for me I suppose
33:50
[SPEAKER_02]: As a younger instructor, it's always about, you know, I'm the learner, this trick, and this trick, and this trick, and now I see some goals, but now every season, the only goal that's get to the end of it, and that is the only thing that actually matters, being a one piece and realizing that I need my body to work, but this is my career.
34:09
[SPEAKER_02]: and after winter I go straight into the next thing so I need to be need to be able to do that I need to look after myself and you know some countries have better medical insurance than others there's some countries like New Zealand is a if you're ever gonna get injured get injured in New Zealand because if you if you get injured at work you get 100% of your pay until a doctor signs you
34:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you get injured outside of work, you get 80% of your pay until a doctor signs you back at work, regardless of how at home.
34:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you're going to get hurt to it down there, other countries can't get anything.
34:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have to be kind of mindful of that and it's something a lot of new people's industry don't even think about is, you know,
34:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, it's a great to learn a free 60 on to a rail, but if it goes wrong and you crack your knee and now you can't work, how are you going to pay your food, how are you going to pay your rent, like you're not, you have to go home now.
35:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just going to weigh in up those things and I think is a
35:09
[SPEAKER_02]: an older instructor, like relatively an older instructor now.
35:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of think about those things a bit more.
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So here's one for you that maybe a little bit more subtle, but I think it might resonate with the listeners if they think about it.
35:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's an example.
35:23
[SPEAKER_01]: My son is a really excellent guitar player and singer.
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And he started doing gigs in his mid-teens because he was good enough, you know, he could play the restaurants, he could play the bars, he could play venues, and he was wrestling with, well, that's easy money, and it's kind of an eight career path, but I don't know if to see him.
35:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's what he wants.
35:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what he's kind of like I'm not sure if this seems what I want and here's kind of the idea in a summary to put a cute bow on it If you spend your life in bars, you think the world is a bar, right?
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You spend your life where people are on vacation Then that changes your perspective on what life's about because everyone's there for a different reason than their other 50 weeks of the year
36:10
[SPEAKER_01]: they have expectations and a lifestyle perhaps that they're adopting because they're trying to be on vacation.
36:18
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you think that impacts you?
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you're the guy that's there with him and it's a you're not on a permanent vacation, but you see people on vacations permanently, right?
36:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a good way of phrasing it.
36:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it is quite an interesting thing because you're kind of joining in on people's high again and again and again.
36:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, though, that week is their highlight of the winter or for some stuff too, that trip, that character is the highlight of a summer and you're going from like peak to peak to peak.
36:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's an interesting thing because you also are also part of that
36:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And I find that having downtime between that stuff is really important as well and you know I find now my traveling has changed quite a lot that I used to finish a season and I go to a place and be like a normal backpacker where you want to go and do everything and see everything.
37:16
[SPEAKER_02]: But now I think my traveling is a lot more low key that I would prefer to just go to one place like a surf town and I just stay at that surf town and I don't necessarily care about seeing the whole country, I just stay there and I read my book and I have a lot of downtime and mellow time.
37:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's still obviously an incredible thing to do, and I love that, but I think you kind of try and enjoy the slower moments.
37:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not like chasing mountains so much in my free time, I'm not going on.
37:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Every time I have time off, I'm not doing some wild adventure that actually most of my adventures are work-related, and that doesn't make them any worse.
37:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually really enjoy them, and I love doing that.
37:56
[SPEAKER_02]: But I guess I just try and balance that out by having more of my own downtime and quiet time and this kind of doing other things aren't like massive peaks and becoming a huge adrenaline junkie and like base jumping off of skyscrapers and stuff.
38:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So, what about technical skills?
38:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously, if you're teaching sea kayaking, you need to know what you're doing.
38:18
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're teaching snowboarding, you need to know what you're doing.
38:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But I also noticed that you are a wilderness first responder certified instructor.
38:25
[SPEAKER_01]: You have other skills and certifications.
38:28
[SPEAKER_01]: How important is that and how do people acquire them?
38:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It depends on the job.
38:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of them are 100% vital.
38:34
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't work without them.
38:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And it depends on the country as well,
38:41
[SPEAKER_02]: individual insurance.
38:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So depending on what and where I suppose is what qualifications you need.
38:49
[SPEAKER_02]: but some entry-level ones are pretty vital and I think the most important out of any of them for everywhere is some kind of first aid, particularly for some of season stuff.
38:59
[SPEAKER_02]: But when to season interestingly you don't need first aid to work on most ski hills because they have ski patrol anyway, so you just find somebody.
39:06
[SPEAKER_02]: But you're having having appropriate qualifications is very important because you are there to look after your group.
39:13
[SPEAKER_02]: you need to have a higher level of knowledge for the area that you're operating in, and you need to know what is good, what's bad, and what to do, and things go wrong.
39:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And particularly, there's no one there to save you.
39:26
[SPEAKER_02]: For example, with sea kayaking, if you need to be rescued, you are your own source of rescue.
39:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So you need to be able to...
39:33
[SPEAKER_02]: get back in your boat yourself either by rolling or or doing like a cowboy rescue and getting back in.
39:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So you need to know how to do that yourself for a certain level of role at least.
39:44
[SPEAKER_02]: There are a lot of entry-level jobs or more assistant guides jobs where you don't necessarily need all of that stuff.
39:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can get in with a lot lower qualification, sometimes even just in-house training with different companies and then they can set you up, they can make sure you are safe and and they'll teach you the basic rescues and that because most companies they're not going to take groups out in, you know, adverse conditions, you're not really going to get in any kind of situation like that.
40:11
[SPEAKER_02]: However, the weather can change, which is why you need a lead guide that knows how to solve those things.
40:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I suppose outside of the qualifications and skills needed for the actual activities themselves.
40:25
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of the skills now that I find most useful for me, running my own business is a lot of photography and marketing and editing.
40:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like a whole different world of skills that,
40:39
[SPEAKER_02]: from other stuff, but for someone who's, I mean a lot of people that now find my Instagram and follow me are people who want a bridge from guide to what I'm doing, and I think there's a huge, huge range of skills that they've not even thought about, which is how do you market your tour, how do you promote your tour, how do you edit all the stuff, how do you build a following, how do you find the audience, and all these kind of things,
41:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, there's like a whole other level of skills for that side of things, but I did a few years before I start my own thing I was doing some freelance travel writing
41:16
[SPEAKER_02]: blogging and photography stuff as well.
41:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So I learned a lot of that during that time working for blogs that have, you know, half to one million visitors per month learning how they market themselves and how they need things written and all that.
41:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of combine the two things and eventually built my own out of all those skills.
41:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it's like a whole plethora of stuff needed if you want to do exactly what I'm doing.
41:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like you need to have a lot of flexibility and willingness to learn and be a self-starter and take the initiative if you want to be successful at it.
41:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you have to do a little bit of everything or hire someone that can do it.
41:58
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know whether I'm either a bit of a control freak or for whatever reason I've not hired out anything.
42:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Other than a bit of help from my brother on the admin side, but yeah, I've always struggled to get someone else to help, but I mean, that is obviously a solution for some people, but I kind of like doing all of it myself and I think that's actually a big selling point of the trips I do run is that people like that I'm the one they speak to.
42:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Any message and email they get me every post is written by me.
42:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all like first person.
42:31
[SPEAKER_02]: They know the way I speak and the way I share stuff.
42:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, my my business is very personable, but that's not how every adventure tool company's run.
42:40
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a lot of people have
42:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, small to medium size businesses with low to staff, which would make life a lot easier, but it's just something I've never really managed to do myself.
42:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Chris, I think we need to go into story time a little bit.
42:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate all the wisdom of experience that you've shared with the Adventure Sports family here.
42:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's I think it's very common.
43:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it was where my heart was for forever and ever.
43:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it still is that I wanted to have more of an adventure Focus lifestyle, but it was scary to take the risk.
43:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It was it was difficult to know how do you do it.
43:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Where do you start?
43:15
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you make it happen, right?
43:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And
43:17
[SPEAKER_01]: you've shared a lot of insights with us, and I think are very useful, but let's talk about doing the things that you do a little bit before we run out of time here.
43:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell us about some amazing experience where everything was just golden.
43:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like the perfect day.
43:34
[SPEAKER_01]: If every day could be like this day.
43:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the first thing that came to mind as you started talking about that would be in
43:42
[SPEAKER_02]: May this year, during the Baha character, we had, there's on a fifth day, so fifth day of six, we're getting to our last campsite, and as we're coming around the corner, I've got a pretty good eye by now that I can see wildlife quite far away.
43:57
[SPEAKER_02]: that's one of my special skills.
43:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I could see some splashing around and I knew those dolphins on the horizon.
44:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So I told everyone in the group, there's dolphins there.
44:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You probably can't even see them yet, and most people couldn't, but I just keep your eye on the horizon and there's the way we're going anyway, just look straight, look at the horizon, right at that land, which happens to be our campsite.
44:17
[SPEAKER_02]: and just just look.
44:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And we get closer and closer about 20 minutes of paddling and these dolphins are right in front of us and there's so many of them.
44:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean at least 50 that they're every side of us left right behind in front they're going under the boats.
44:33
[SPEAKER_02]: The water is so water is so clear that you can see them swim under the boats and they're so playful.
44:41
[SPEAKER_02]: They're jumping out the water they're surfacing by all of us.
44:46
[SPEAKER_02]: joyful, screaming and laughing and having such a good time and we're with them for about 30 minutes of this happening and we're right by our campsite as well so finally they give us a bit of distance so alright let's go to shore we pop the boats and then just as we're about to start setting up the tents they reappear
45:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And the same again, they're jumping and playing.
45:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And there was all night.
45:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It took about an hour and a half to set up a tent because the dolphins are just right there, meters from shore, like the beach just drops straight off.
45:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're right there by the shore.
45:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You can hear them breathing.
45:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And a couple of people stayed up until about midnight.
45:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're watching the stars and they're listening to the dolphin's surface right in front of them.
45:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just incredible.
45:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the next morning, just as we're about to pull off, they reappear.
45:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I assume it's the same part, I don't actually know, but I mean, it probably was.
45:36
[SPEAKER_02]: But as soon as we're about to pull off all these dolphins appear, once again, right in front of us and they're jumping and you see them under the water and we all had snorkels as well.
45:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So, put on a snorkel mask, put your head under and you just see them going by.
45:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So, just the most incredible
45:52
[SPEAKER_02]: way to end a character.
45:53
[SPEAKER_02]: It would already have very good luck in terms of wildlife on this trip, but to then get that for what must have been about 14 hours worth of dolphin encounter right there.
46:06
[SPEAKER_02]: At our campsite was just absolutely in mind blowing.
46:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I like the way you described that it's like the dolphins were enjoying you.
46:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It seemed like it.
46:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean they're so playful, they're so social and intelligent.
46:20
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no reason to assume they wouldn't be enjoying that encounter.
46:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, a lot of people like to put some kind of scientists survival theory on everything of like they must be doing it for meeting or food and like, no, I think they're just a playful animal.
46:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Having a good time, just like we are, and yeah, they were playing with our boats just as much as we're enjoying seeing them do it.
46:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's fascinating and a beautiful experience.
46:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, dolphins are magical creatures.
46:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
46:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
46:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be a perfect day.
46:50
[SPEAKER_01]: How about another story about when things were tough and what you had to do to get through it?
46:55
[SPEAKER_02]: One that comes to mind is, so this is not work related, which is nice to talk about, something that's not
47:02
[SPEAKER_02]: work.
47:03
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of my outdoor stuff is through work.
47:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So the last time I was on this podcast was when I attacked the inside passage from London, which next to Vancouver Island to Skagway in Alaska.
47:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a 72 day character in Alaska.
47:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of the hardest moments of that trip was two days before Juno when our gas stove stopped working and our backup stove also stopped working.
47:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Admiralty Island, and I remember that because Admiralty Island has the densest population of grizzly bears in the world with one bear every free miles on average.
47:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're on that island, and it was...
47:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Completely gray for the last like five days.
47:49
[SPEAKER_02]: It'd be non-stop rain.
47:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm wearing all of my clothes underneath my dry suit.
47:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is very cold.
47:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wake up that morning to try and put the coffee on and the stove is just not working.
48:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I have no idea why.
48:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't even remember if we figured out why if I'm getting new one.
48:06
[SPEAKER_02]: but it came to it that we had no way of heating anything, so there'd be no hot food, no hot water for the next two days until we got to Juno, so all we had was canned tuna and cereal bars and maybe a couple of apples, so we'd have apples or breakfast,
48:25
[SPEAKER_02]: can tuna for lunch and then snack bars can tuna for dinner.
48:30
[SPEAKER_02]: No hot drink all day long.
48:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Did that for two days and then yeah get to Juno and just so done.
48:36
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah that moment was it was tough because in that situation you know this is this is the scenario in front of you.
48:43
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what we have, which is next to nothing, but like, what else are you going to do?
48:48
[SPEAKER_02]: There is no choice, but to go and to do it, you just have to suck it up and try and see light, try and make a joke of it, so we try to laugh about it a little bit, but you know, as soon as you stop laughing at a sight miserable straight away.
49:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But your story cracks me up because Travis and I started the Adventure Sports podcast in part 10 years ago to sell 180 stoves, which was natural fuel backpacking stove that we had developed and marketed and that would have solved your problem that would have made a great backup.
49:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I'll back up.
49:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So we were using the Dragonflane Erdogan with like the pump gasping.
49:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was our main stove and then our backup was like a screw-top.
49:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think what happened was I bought the wrong screw attachment like it what the Fred was wrong.
49:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's why I backed up didn't work.
49:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I brought the wrong gas for the stove.
49:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why the primary one broke.
49:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, who knows?
49:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess like two months worth of salt damage probably did something but
49:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's interesting too because your story does illustrate how sometimes it's a small thing that we really look forward to like a hot drink on a cold day on a wet day, you know, something to put a little bit of life back into your bones and how miserable it can be when that one luxury is gone.
50:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I still remember, now this is almost, yeah, three and a half years later.
50:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I still remember that day.
50:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'd instinctively go and reach my firmest, which is on the deck of my pack, and I'll grab it, and I'll pick it up, and then realize it's empty again, and then put it back.
50:22
[SPEAKER_02]: For out the whole damn is grabbing it, because I'm just so used to sipping it throughout the day, and I just disappointment disappointment again and again.
50:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what advice do you have for people who just have never done an epic adventure trip?
50:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And they want to go maybe they they want to go with you, but what advice would you have for people who are just They've got to try it and they don't even know where to start.
50:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess a big thing to be to be realistic a reason if it's your first one, you're not sure where to start.
50:52
[SPEAKER_02]: you're probably going to want to do some research and that would make you feel a lot more comfortable.
50:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So the best way to put yourself at ease is find someone who's done something similar to what you want to do and just reach out to them and speak to them and they will give you a lot of advice and they will understand where you're coming from and why you've maybe been hesitant and you can put those questions to them and you can kind of figure it out.
51:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So, know a lot of people, they just tell you, you know, just do it, just buy the ticket, just go whatever, and like that advice only works for a certain kind of person.
51:25
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're not the kind of person to just buy a ticket and go and wing it, then that's obviously not going to be helpful to you.
51:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So, what is more helpful, I think, is actually finding someone in a similar situation as being to them, or if it's maybe like a guided trip, reach out to a company,
51:40
[SPEAKER_02]: or an individual that might be able to provide you with some information that can help you out and you can speak on the phone.
51:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, talking about the inside passage, I've had a number of people reach out to me who are planning to do that trip themselves and have subsequently done it by now.
51:55
[SPEAKER_02]: and I'm always offering advice to them, I'm always happy to share information, I send them my maps tell them where we've been, some useful stuff and there's a whole outdoor network of people and even though our sports and activities are quite individual in the actual practice of doing it, there's a big community of data sharing and information sharing
52:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And at the end of this, as people are trying to keep it to have a safe and try to help other people get the same experience they did.
52:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm always happy to talk to people about travel, because it's a way of like reliving your own adventures in all these different places.
52:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I guess that would be it really.
52:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Just reach out to people, speak to people, get some advice, do some research, and then you realize it's actually a lot more achievable and obtainable than you may be for and might even be a lot easier than you've kind of built it up to be.
52:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Chris, you mentioned that you're someone who likes to do everything yourself for your business and I was wired the same way.
52:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was always one of these people.
52:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I would want to try a new adventure sport.
52:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So that meant I'd get the equipment and try it.
52:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And finally, at some point, I got the wisdom to mention to people, you know, you're going to become better at it and enjoy it more.
53:07
[SPEAKER_01]: If you go with someone who already knows what they're doing because you can learn from their years of experience.
53:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's really, really worthwhile.
53:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can rent skis and go up the lift and get off and try to make it down the mountain.
53:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're going to have a much better ski vacation if you just buy a lesson on that first day.
53:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, but the same thing goes for your guided sea kayaking trips.
53:29
[SPEAKER_01]: People don't know the hacks, the little things, and make it so much more enjoyable.
53:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
53:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I get a bunch of people join characters that have their own coax and they've been doing it for years and I'll just give some, you know, throw away advice, maybe not even to them, but to the person next to them that I know as a beginner.
53:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And they'll hear it in the back.
53:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.
53:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, no one's ever told me that before.
53:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I've never heard that before because they've just been figuring out themselves.
53:55
[SPEAKER_02]: They've never come across anyone else who can offer, you know, some technique advice.
54:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, when people say that their hesitant to do lessons or
54:04
[SPEAKER_02]: for whatever reason it is, you know, always tell them that in Whistler, for example, there is instructor training every single day.
54:12
[SPEAKER_02]: It's optional, but a lot of people go every day.
54:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So think about that, that if you think you don't need a lesson or there's nothing you can learn, the people giving the lessons are getting lessons themselves every single day, and they're always constantly improving, you know, any
54:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Athlete any Olympian they have a coach that always they're trying to improve so they're so much to learn and it's not to say Everyone needs to you know learn that way or take it that seriously, but particularly for beginners You're gonna save yourself so much time and potential injury if you just get some on who can teach you Especially if it's a professional, you know You'll make might know how to ski, but they've never actually explained to someone how to ski so
54:56
[SPEAKER_02]: It will be a lot easier for everyone if you just get a professional to give you a one or two day lesson and you'll be a lot more comfortable and you'll be up the mountain enjoying it way faster.
55:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
55:07
[SPEAKER_02]: How can people reach you?
55:08
[SPEAKER_02]: As I'm on pretty much every social media, but Instagram is the main one at global underscore shenanigans and then all the other ones I kind of just repost up from there.
55:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So Instagram would be the main one and then my website is
55:22
[SPEAKER_02]: www.global-shenanigans.com or to scubel where we're shenanigans and you're finally.
55:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's fantastic.
55:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Chris, thank you for your time today.
55:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we most generally talk about adventures, but you're insights into, you know, how to have an adventure-based lifestyle where you can help other people enjoy adventures and then get to have your own adventures as a result alongside of them.
55:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate that.
55:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's something that's gonna be appealing to a lot of people.
55:54
[SPEAKER_01]: and I applaud you.
55:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You've built a life that you can enjoy and it's fantastic.
56:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for what you do and thanks for sharing.
56:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks very much.
56:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Have a me on.
56:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I've really enjoyed it as well.
56:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Cheers.
56:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
56:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And for all of you listeners out there, figure out what your thing is, get out there and have some fun.