Latest / Steve Price / Steve Price | 16 October

Transcript

Steve Price | 16 October · Steve Price

0:01
Speaker 1: Live, this is Steve Price.
0:06
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us. Steve Price with you for our
0:09
Speaker 2: Friday night catch-up on the news of the week. Seven
0:11
Speaker 2: days dominated by breaking news out of Canberra and the
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Speaker 2: latest from the Victorian state election, where things have turned
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Speaker 2: extremely nasty. Here's what's coming up on the program tonight.
0:22
Speaker 2: With six weeks until Victorians go to the polls, the
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Speaker 2: state election campaign has exploded, with Labor desperate for a
0:29
Speaker 2: record fourth term, throwing abortion into the debate, and then
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Speaker 2: the Coalition falls for the trap. and matches Labor. We
0:37
Speaker 2: will talk the politics of women's health with the Australian
0:40
Speaker 2: Christian Lobby's CEO, Michelle Pearce. Still on Victoria and elections,
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Speaker 2: breathtaking debt figures released yesterday for Australia's poorest state, including
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Speaker 2: this figure. Taxpayers are shelling out, and you will not
0:54
Speaker 2: believe this, $ 901, 826 an hour to pay just the interest
1:01
Speaker 2: on Victoria's debt. All borrowed money. Saul Eslake will be
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Speaker 2: first up tonight. and energy expert Saul Kovonek runs a
1:08
Speaker 2: ruler over the federal government's gas reserve policy and what
1:12
Speaker 2: that might do to investment in exploration for gas, plus
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Speaker 2: diesel costs continue to go through the roof, I don't
1:20
Speaker 2: need to tell you that, with near neighbour Bali even
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Speaker 2: running out of diesel. Could that happen here? And Friday
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Speaker 2: night regular Campbell Newman on maverick far north Queensland MP
1:30
Speaker 2: Bob Catter's idea that his part of the world would
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Speaker 2: secede from Queensland... and become its own state. Just how
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Speaker 2: would that work? And with our panel, what would your
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Speaker 2: response be if you won $ 100 million on your own
1:43
Speaker 2: in Powerball? A woman from Ballina who won last night
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Speaker 2: probably did and said what we would all do. But first,
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Speaker 2: in speaking of large amounts of money amid a national
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Speaker 2: cost of living crisis, figures released yesterday in the annual
1:58
Speaker 2: financial report for the state of Victoria reveal eye-watering debt
2:03
Speaker 2: as far as the eye can see. I shouldn't be surprised.
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Speaker 2: But the numbers make me absolutely depressed. It makes for
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Speaker 2: depressing reading. And whoever wins the state election in November
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Speaker 2: will have a Herculean job to clean this mess up.
2:17
Speaker 2: And unlike the financial crisis of the early 90s, an
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Speaker 2: incoming government has little in the cupboard left of state
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Speaker 2: assets to actually privatise to sell to retire debt. You
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Speaker 2: just wonder how federal governments, two terms of Labor and
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Speaker 2: the previous Morrison government, you can probably go back even further,
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Speaker 2: allowed the Andrews, Allen, Carroll governments to go on an
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Speaker 2: unrestrained spending spree, sending the state broke. You don't believe me?
2:44
Speaker 2: We'll try this on. The report released yesterday showed, according
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Speaker 2: to the Herald Sun, that expenses have blown out by
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Speaker 2: $ 1 billion just since May this year. Spending has surged
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Speaker 2: by a disgraceful $ 7. 9 billion in just 12 months. While
3:02
Speaker 2: we are all being urged to force to tighten our belts,
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Speaker 2: Ben Carroll, the new Premier, and his mates are doing
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Speaker 2: exactly the opposite. General government expenses hit a mammoth $ 112. 1
3:15
Speaker 2: billion last financial year. And guess what? That's $ 891 million
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Speaker 2: above official forecast in the last budget in May. How
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Speaker 2: could they get that so wrong? And where is all
3:27
Speaker 2: this money going? Well, a lot of it's going to
3:30
Speaker 2: massive pay rises in part to public servants. Employee expenses
3:34
Speaker 2: jumped by over $ 2. 3 billion in just a year. Now,
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Speaker 2: I know a lot of figures... That's a lot of figures.
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Speaker 2: But that takes the state paid employees' wages bill to
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Speaker 2: a mind-blowing $ 46.
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Speaker 3: 1 billion.
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Speaker 2: How the hell can this happen? And, of course, you
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Speaker 2: are paying for it. You all, every taxpayer... You're paying
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Speaker 2: for this and your great-great-grandchildren will still be paying the
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Speaker 2: debt long after you and I are no longer around.
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Speaker 2: I mean, any good news, you ask? Well, maybe. The
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Speaker 2: government did record a $ 2.
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Speaker 1: 4 billion.
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Speaker 2: boost to its surplus, well, how did they do that? Well,
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Speaker 2: the other politicians with their hands in your pocket, Canberra,
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Speaker 2: handed over more of your hard-earned money for the so-called
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Speaker 2: unlikely-to-be-seen-for-decades airport rail project, so that goes into a pile
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Speaker 2: of money considered to be a profit. GST payments from
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Speaker 2: Canberra went to Victoria, went up, and so did, of course,
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Speaker 2: the state government's taxes and charges and levies that we
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Speaker 2: all pay. Look, this debt, and I'll talk to Saul
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Speaker 2: Eslake in a sec, is so large, so hard to
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Speaker 2: get your head around, that I suspect many voters shrug
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Speaker 2: their shoulders and think, well, it's not my debt, I
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Speaker 2: don't have to pay it, so why should I care? Well, simply,
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Speaker 2: there's a simple answer to that. Next time you hit
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Speaker 2: a pothole big enough to swallow your car, next time
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Speaker 2: you bowl up to a police station and the doors
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Speaker 2: are locked, or call an ambulance and you spend half
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Speaker 2: the night in the back of it ramping, or your
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Speaker 2: kid's school is in such a bad shape they freeze
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Speaker 2: in winter and fry in summer, or your side wall
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Speaker 2: is covered in graffiti and no one cleans it off, well,
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Speaker 2: that's what happens. They are just some of the reasons
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Speaker 2: you should care. The other reason you should care is someone,
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Speaker 2: though maybe a lot of people, are to blame for
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Speaker 2: this financial collapse, and many of them think Dan Andrews
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Speaker 2: Jacinda Allen, Tim Pallis, Martin Pakula, to name just a few, well,
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Speaker 2: they've simply, most of them, except for Carol, walked away scot-free,
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Speaker 2: many of them on lifetime pensions. That doesn't make you angry.
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Speaker 2: I don't know what will. That's why when you vote,
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Speaker 2: you should care about the trashing of your state. Just
5:42
Speaker 2: before I go to Saul to get some sensible analysis
5:44
Speaker 2: of all of that, filling in for Chris Kenny last night,
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Speaker 2: I talked about what I consider one of the most cynical,
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Speaker 2: desperate moves by an incumbent government seeking re-election that I
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Speaker 2: have ever encountered, and I've seen a few. Victorian Premier
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Speaker 2: Ben Carroll chose the very day that he knew those
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Speaker 2: financial figures I just told you about were coming out
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Speaker 2: to introduce a hand grenade issue into the election campaign. Abortion. Now,
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Speaker 2: How he decided to do this is beyond me. How
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Speaker 2: sick is that? Playing with the health care of Victorian
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Speaker 2: women to wedge the opposition and, he believes, claw back
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Speaker 2: votes from One Nation by trying to portray that party
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Speaker 2: as anti-abortion. Now, it got worse, if that's possible. Today,
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Speaker 2: Ben Carroll wheeled out his wife to put a female
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Speaker 2: face to the idea by... Ben was making abortions free
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Speaker 2: in his state, so he needed a female voice. Here's
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Speaker 2: what happened today.
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Speaker 4: Jess Wilson yesterday morning did a press conference on top
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Speaker 4: of the statement she put out a month ago that
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Speaker 4: she would be making no changes to access to abortion.
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Speaker 4: And nothing would change. Nothing would.
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Speaker 1: No, nothing.
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Speaker 4: She said nothing would change. She was very clear. Nothing
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Speaker 4: would change under a coalition with the National Party.
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Speaker 2: She did not rule out.
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Speaker 4: What would happen under a coalition with One Nation?
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Speaker 3: The fact that they don't, you know, that both parties
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Speaker 3: are supporting it, I think that's a really encouraging sign
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Speaker 3: and I think that that's something that has moved this
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Speaker 3: conversation along and I think that's important for the women
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Speaker 3: of Victoria.
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Speaker 2: Unbelievable. Now, no-one, and I mean no-one, was even talking
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Speaker 2: about abortion laws before yesterday, which, by the way, are
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Speaker 2: the most radical in the nation, and it wasn't until
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Speaker 2: yesterday that this even became a debating point. Clearly someone
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Speaker 2: inside Labor's increasingly desperate political machine thought this might be
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Speaker 2: a clever way to wedge the female leadership candidate of
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Speaker 2: the opposition in this election, Jess Wilson. And guess what?
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Speaker 2: It did, with the Coalition sensibly yesterday morning saying nothing
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Speaker 2: in their policy would change.
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Speaker 5: I think Victorians know where I stand on this issue.
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Speaker 5: There will be no changes to abortion laws under a
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Speaker 5: government I lead full stop.
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Speaker 6: And I think it's incredibly.
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Speaker 5: Disappointing to see Labor playing politics with women's reproductive rights
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Speaker 5: five minutes before an election.
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Speaker 2: Reminder, that was yesterday morning. By 4.30 yesterday afternoon, as
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Speaker 2: I went to air filling in for Chris, it did change,
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Speaker 2: with the Liberals posting a statement, all but matching Carroll's plan.
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Speaker 2: I still can't understand why they did that, why they
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Speaker 2: fell for his trap. Today, the other intended target, One Nation,
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Speaker 2: made it clear... They were not changing the existing policy
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Speaker 2: that they have on abortion, which I suspect many One
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Speaker 2: Nation supporters might actually have a different view. Here was
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Speaker 2: the Victorian deputy leader in Victoria, Colleen Harkin.
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Speaker 7: Labor is lying. One Nation has no perspective on changing
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Speaker 7: the state-based abortion laws. They're engaging with really cheap American-style scaremongerings.
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Speaker 7: and we're just not entering into that game.
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Speaker 2: So Ben Carroll has now, without anyone asking, made women's
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Speaker 2: reproductive choices a cynical grab by an election issue. Now,
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Speaker 2: I'll talk to the leader of the Australian Christian Lobby shortly. OK, now,
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Speaker 2: for more on that massive debt in Victoria and more
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Speaker 2: generally the Australian economy beset by zero productivity, rising interest rates,
9:29
Speaker 2: and now a tick up in unemployment. A very nasty trifecta.
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Speaker 2: Let's get some informed analysis from independent economist Saul Eslake. Saul,
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Speaker 2: great to see you again. Interest rate payments for the
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Speaker 2: state of over $ 900, 000 an hour. When I read that
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Speaker 2: from that report yesterday, I couldn't believe it. Surely that's
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Speaker 2: not sustainable.
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Speaker 1: It isn't.
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Speaker 8: Can I say how pleased I am that you're having
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Speaker 8: two souls on this program, Steve? That probably doesn't happen
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Speaker 8: very often. But no, it's the price that is being
10:02
Speaker 8: paid for the debt that has been run up by
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Speaker 8: the Victorian government. Over the last decade in particular, their
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Speaker 8: first term of office between 2014 and 2018, they continued
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Speaker 8: the fairly conservative fiscal policies that Steve Brax and John
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Speaker 8: Brumby had implemented during their decade in power. But after 2018,
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Speaker 8: particularly during COVID, which to some extent was understandable because
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Speaker 8: governments all over the world.. let the purse strings go
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Speaker 8: during that period. But even harder to understand, in the
10:39
Speaker 8: years since the COVID pandemic was over, there's been an
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Speaker 8: enormous increase in government spending, largely funded by debt, which
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Speaker 8: has left Victoria with, we learnt yesterday, $ 5 billion less
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Speaker 8: than they had forecast a year ago, but nonetheless, relative
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Speaker 8: to the size of Victoria's economy, a bigger number than
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Speaker 8: Geoff Kennett inherited from John Kane and Joan Kerner. It's
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Speaker 8: not costing quite as much to service it. as it
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Speaker 8: did back then, because interest rates, though they've gone up,
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Speaker 8: are lower than they were 35 years ago, but they're
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Speaker 8: heading higher, and almost certainly an increasing proportion of the
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Speaker 8: taxes that Victorians pay will be going to meet those
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Speaker 8: interest bills rather than to pay for hospitals, schools, policing
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Speaker 8: and other services people look to their state government to provide.
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Speaker 2: Well, that was the point I made at the beginning
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Speaker 2: there where I said that, you know, if you think
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Speaker 2: it's not your problem, it's just the government debt and
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Speaker 2: it's not going to impact on you. And clearly it is.
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Speaker 2: I mean, no one can afford to start paying $ 900, 000
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Speaker 2: an hour off the interest. And to be clear, Saul,
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Speaker 2: that's not paying off any of the principal debt that
11:52
Speaker 2: we have, right? That's just the interest rate.
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Speaker 8: You cannot begin to pay down debt. Indeed, you can't
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Speaker 8: stop running up debt until you are running a cash surplus.
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Speaker 8: You know, state treasurers, including the current Victorian one and
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Speaker 8: his predecessors... like to talk about a so-called net operating balance,
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Speaker 8: and that was in surplus in the 2025-6 financial year
12:19
Speaker 8: we learnt yesterday. But the net operating balance is an
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Speaker 8: incomplete and in some ways misleading measure of the budget
12:26
Speaker 8: bottom line, in particular because it doesn't include capital spending,
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Speaker 8: infrastructure programs and the like, and they've been an enormous
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Speaker 8: driver of increases in debt in Victoria over the past
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Speaker 8: decade or so. And the most recent budget forecast that
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Speaker 8: the Victorian government would be running cash deficits of $ 7
12:45
Speaker 8: or $ 8 billion each year through 2029-30, that's driving the
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Speaker 8: increase in forecast debt up to, they were saying, $ 200
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Speaker 8: billion by 2029-30. And there's no way that that can
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Speaker 8: be turned around until the government runs a cash surplus fund.
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Speaker 8: which they're showing no sign of doing. And even though
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Speaker 8: Ms Wilson has been focusing on economic and fiscal issues,
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Speaker 8: she's saying that they won't get to a cash surplus
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Speaker 8: until 2031-32. That is, after not just the election that's
13:20
Speaker 8: coming up at the end of next month, but the
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Speaker 8: one after that. And I think Ms Wilson needs to
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Speaker 8: be a bit more ambitious about what she will do
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Speaker 8: to put Victoria's finances on a sustainable trajectory than she
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Speaker 8: has so far... so far been willing to spell out.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, she might, for a start, you know, she's both
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Speaker 2: the opposition leader and the opposition Treasury spokesman. She might
13:43
Speaker 2: need to divide that job up. I mean, you mentioned
13:45
Speaker 2: Geoff Kennedy. That would be a very wise thing to do, Steve. Absolutely,
13:49
Speaker 2: get a genius in... Get a genius in there to,
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Speaker 2: you know, work on this full time, 24 hours a day.
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Speaker 2: You and I lived through the Kennet era. He at
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Speaker 2: least had stuff to sell, you know, poles and wires
14:01
Speaker 2: and coal-fired power stations and a whole bunch of stuff.
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Speaker 2: There's nothing left to sell. There's nothing left in the cupboard.
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Speaker 2: I think the only thing left probably is Melbourne water
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Speaker 2: and that would, I don't think, politically be a very
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Speaker 2: popular thing to be flogging. That's right.
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Speaker 8: It's actually worth noting, Steve, that while, as you said,
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Speaker 8: Alan Stockdale and Geoff Kennett did embark on a very
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Speaker 8: large privatisation program, Dan Andrews presided over three of the
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Speaker 8: biggest privatisations that any state government has ever undertaken. That
14:32
Speaker 8: is to say, the Port of Melbourne, the Land Titles
14:35
Speaker 8: Office and the Motor Vehicle Registry were all very large privatisations.
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Speaker 8: And apart from Melbourne Water, there isn't much left, and
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Speaker 8: I don't think the Coalition would be well advised to
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Speaker 8: try and sell Melbourne Water. The privatisation of water authorities
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Speaker 8: in other countries, particularly in the UK, has not only
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Speaker 8: been politically disastrous for the governments that have done it,
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Speaker 8: but it's also not worked from the point of view
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Speaker 8: of consumers and people who have to pay water bills.
15:01
Speaker 8: So I doubt that that's on the agenda. What has
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Speaker 8: to happen, whoever wins the next election, is some politically
15:08
Speaker 8: difficult combination of cuts in spending and increases in taxes.
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Speaker 8: And there's not much scope for increases in taxes in
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Speaker 8: Victoria because it already has, by quite a wide margin,
15:19
Speaker 8: the highest taxes in the nation, both per head of
15:22
Speaker 8: population and relative to the size of the Victorian economy.
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Speaker 8: So some very difficult decisions are going to have to
15:27
Speaker 8: be made about spending. And, again, at the risk of
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Speaker 8: sounding like I'm giving gratuitous advice... to someone who will
15:34
Speaker 8: possibly be Victoria's next Premier. I think she needs to
15:37
Speaker 8: seek a mandate for difficult spending decisions. She doesn't want
15:42
Speaker 8: to be like Tony Abbott or Campbell Newman, who won
15:45
Speaker 8: office promising not to make spending cuts and then ran
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Speaker 8: into enormous political difficulty when they did what they probably
15:52
Speaker 8: knew they were going to have to do. They just
15:54
Speaker 8: hadn't told the people about it. You know, when Geoff
15:57
Speaker 8: Kennett was elected in 1992, he had been pretty clear
16:00
Speaker 8: that he was going to make some tough decisions, and
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Speaker 8: he did, and the people accepted that, and he won
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Speaker 8: the following election, unlike Campbell Newman, who tried to say
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Speaker 8: he wasn't going to do anything difficult, did it, and
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Speaker 8: lost by a landslide. I hope Ms Wilson isn't planning
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Speaker 8: to repeat that experience.
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Speaker 2: I've got Campbell on the program in about half an
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Speaker 2: hour and I'll say g'day to him from you, Saul.
16:24
Speaker 2: And I'll say g'day to that other Saul as well.
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Speaker 2: Saul Eslake, thank you very much for your expert analysis
16:29
Speaker 2: as usual. OK, so Premier Ben Carroll, as I mentioned
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Speaker 2: at the top of the show, desperate political gambled this.
16:35
Speaker 2: He's somehow been convinced to put abortion up as an
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Speaker 2: election issue, announcing in simple terms abortion, out-of-pocket costs for
16:44
Speaker 2: abortions would basically be free up to 16 weeks gestation
16:48
Speaker 2: at the cost to taxpayers. There's always a cost to
16:50
Speaker 2: these things, $ 30 million. The state already has the most
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Speaker 2: liberal abortion laws in the land, including late-term abortions. As
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Speaker 2: I said at the beginning, this is a cynical, desperate
17:02
Speaker 2: act by a government clinging to power with, as I
17:05
Speaker 2: showed you, the Premier's wife even being recruited today to
17:09
Speaker 2: sell the policy. Now, politically, you'd have to say it's worked,
17:12
Speaker 2: with the Liberals backflipping to join Carol's policy change after
17:16
Speaker 2: first up saying they would do nothing. One nation... have
17:20
Speaker 2: held their line on this issue. It has now become
17:23
Speaker 2: a political football. Joining us is the CEO of the
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Speaker 2: Australian Christian Lobby, Michelle Pearce. Michelle, thank you very much
17:29
Speaker 2: for joining us. One Nation today hit back at Labor's
17:33
Speaker 2: claims the party would attack existing abortion laws if elected.
17:37
Speaker 2: Here's what Harkin said today.
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Speaker 7: Labor is lying. One Nation has no perspective on changing
17:46
Speaker 7: the state-based abortion laws. They've engaging with really cheap American-style scaremongering,
17:54
Speaker 7: and we're just not entering into that game.
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Speaker 2: Colleen Harkin, of course. Michelle, until yesterday, abortion was not
18:00
Speaker 2: even on the agenda. Why do you think Labor's decided
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Speaker 2: to create this debate?
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Speaker 9: It really makes no sense except for it to be
18:10
Speaker 9: used as a political manoeuvre. And it is deeply saddening
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Speaker 9: that Labor would resort to this. And now the lives
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Speaker 9: of unborn children are at stake and the safety of women.
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Speaker 2: And this is a new low.
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Speaker 9: And it is surprising to see Jess Wilson backflip on this.
18:30
Speaker 9: She said that she won't play politics on abortion. But
18:34
Speaker 9: she has with agreeing to the same election commitment that
18:36
Speaker 9: Labor made to taxpayer fund, fully fund abortions. Now, many
18:42
Speaker 9: Australians don't know that there are about 100,000 abortions every
18:46
Speaker 9: year in Australia and abortion to birth is legal for
18:50
Speaker 9: any reason right up until birth. Now, no matter where
18:53
Speaker 9: people sit on the abortion debate, people agree that 100,000
18:57
Speaker 9: is too many and parties need to be doing what
19:01
Speaker 9: they can to support women in crisis pregnancies.
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Speaker 10: You know, we have a declining birth rate.
19:06
Speaker 2: In this nation.
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Speaker 9: Meanwhile, 100,000 babies are being aborted. So we need to
19:11
Speaker 9: be doing more for maternity services, for mental health support
19:16
Speaker 9: to support women that are facing pregnancies and are feeling
19:19
Speaker 9: pressure to have an abortion.
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Speaker 2: Would you say that, you know, with Carol saying to
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Speaker 2: young women in Victoria, look, if you get pregnant, don't worry,
19:31
Speaker 2: we'll pay all of your out-of-pocket expenses and your abortion
19:36
Speaker 2: will be free. How is that a disincentive for somebody
19:41
Speaker 2: who gets pregnant going and having an abortion? There's no
19:45
Speaker 2: disincentive now. None.
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Speaker 1: Exactly.
19:48
Speaker 9: It incentivises abortions. and no doubt with this incentive, the
19:52
Speaker 9: abortion rate will continue to grow. Now, we know it's
19:56
Speaker 9: very much underreported, but there are negative health impacts after
19:59
Speaker 9: a woman has an abortion. And because this is such
20:03
Speaker 9: a political and ideological issue... and not enough attention is
20:06
Speaker 9: put on that. We need parties that put forward policies
20:10
Speaker 9: that support women in crisis. Many women are pressured to
20:14
Speaker 9: have abortions. They don't want to do it, but they're
20:17
Speaker 9: pressured into it, and not enough attention is on that
20:19
Speaker 9: because it's such a highly contested issue. And I hope
20:23
Speaker 9: that this backflips on Labor and it won't be a vote-puller,
20:28
Speaker 9: but people would see through this that they would resort
20:30
Speaker 9: to this kind of discompassionate, very uncaring low, and that
20:37
Speaker 9: people won't vote for Labor because they're pushing this sort
20:40
Speaker 9: of agenda.
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Speaker 2: Michelle, in a sense, have they done you a favour
20:44
Speaker 2: that they have put abortion back as an issue that
20:47
Speaker 2: people are now... We wouldn't be talking about abortion tonight
20:50
Speaker 2: on this program if Carol hadn't done what he did yesterday.
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Speaker 9: I think people are waking up to say, we've gone
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Speaker 9: too far as a nation to have 100,000 abortions every year,
21:01
Speaker 9: to have every state and territory allowing abortion to birth
21:04
Speaker 9: for any reason, any reason, not just health reasons, any
21:07
Speaker 9: reason somebody can have an abortion for. It is an
21:10
Speaker 9: issue that we need to talk about. We're too scared
21:12
Speaker 9: to talk about these issues in our nation. But this
21:15
Speaker 9: is important. The declining birth rate is important and this
21:18
Speaker 9: has something to do with that.
21:21
Speaker 2: Note you're in Canberra. Allegra Spender, the MP from Sydney,
21:25
Speaker 2: her religious schools bill, you've been deeply critical of this
21:28
Speaker 2: proposed legislation. You see it as an attack on faith-based schools.
21:32
Speaker 2: Can you tell us, explain that to us, what you mean?
21:36
Speaker 9: It's yet another attempt to remove the existing protections that
21:40
Speaker 9: Christian schools have, to have a school that runs according
21:43
Speaker 9: to their ethos, to be able to hire teachers and
21:46
Speaker 9: all staff that share the faith of the school. Parents
21:49
Speaker 9: in their droves are choosing to send their kids to
21:53
Speaker 9: Christian schools. And this bill by Allegra Spender is a
21:57
Speaker 9: direct attack against parental choice. And Allegra Spender overuses the
22:01
Speaker 9: argument that she's trying to protect parents children from being
22:04
Speaker 9: expelled from Christian schools because of their sexuality. But the
22:08
Speaker 9: reality is, is that this doesn't happen. Kids are not
22:12
Speaker 9: expelled from Christian schools because of their sexuality. But kids
22:16
Speaker 9: receive the utmost compassion and care. Christian schools reject bullying
22:21
Speaker 9: and shaming of any kind. And that's why parents are
22:24
Speaker 9: choosing to send their kids to these schools. So this
22:27
Speaker 9: isn't a bill about removing discrimination on grounds of sexuality.
22:33
Speaker 9: This is a bill that removes the freedom that Christians
22:38
Speaker 9: currently have to create that supportive environment that's based on
22:42
Speaker 9: their biblical fundamental values of compassion and care.
22:48
Speaker 2: Shell Pierce, good to catch up with you. Thank you
22:50
Speaker 2: very much for joining us tonight. OK, coming up after
22:52
Speaker 2: the break, the latest jobs data paints a very bleak
22:55
Speaker 2: picture for the nation. We'll get into it with our
22:57
Speaker 2: Friday night regular, Campbell Newman. He's up next. Welcome back.
23:05
Speaker 2: Take you to London shortly. But now to Australia's labour market.
23:08
Speaker 2: We saw the unemployment figures go up slightly yesterday. But look,
23:12
Speaker 2: I mean, Ross Greenwood told me that over a two-year period,
23:15
Speaker 2: that means 120,000 Australians have lost their jobs, which is
23:20
Speaker 2: not great for anybody. And it's just feeling, isn't it,
23:23
Speaker 2: like a recession is coming around the corner. Former Queensland Premier,
23:28
Speaker 2: Friday night regular Campbell Newman joins us. I know you've
23:30
Speaker 2: just joined us from the studio. We had Saul Eslake
23:33
Speaker 2: on at the top of the program. We were talking
23:36
Speaker 2: about state governments cutting expenses. He's given you a whack,
23:40
Speaker 2: said you didn't say anything about it in the lead-up
23:42
Speaker 2: to your election and then you tried to do it
23:44
Speaker 2: once you won.
23:45
Speaker 11: Oh, look, I don't agree with that. And he also
23:49
Speaker 11: made a statement about... A landslide loss. Well, we lost
23:53
Speaker 11: with a primary vote of 41.3%. And the Christopher Lee
23:58
Speaker 11: government just won with a primary vote of 41.5%. And
24:02
Speaker 11: the polling now has that government down at 34%. So
24:07
Speaker 11: it was a very narrow loss in 2015. I acknowledge
24:11
Speaker 11: down from a very big, very, very big win in 2012.
24:15
Speaker 1: But the reason I'm making the point, mate, is that.
24:19
Speaker 11: It would be a big mistake, and it has been
24:21
Speaker 11: a mistake for Conservatives over the past 10 years to
24:24
Speaker 11: keep going, oh, the Newman government tried reform, it's too hard,
24:27
Speaker 11: we shouldn't try. Well, they've got to stand up, stand
24:31
Speaker 11: for something, and they will be rewarded, people on the right,
24:35
Speaker 11: if they actually can take an agenda to Australians or Victorians,
24:40
Speaker 11: wherever it is.
24:42
Speaker 1: To actually get us out of the big mess that
24:43
Speaker 1: we're in. And so to your point here.
24:46
Speaker 11: About the unemployment rate, I'm very concerned about where the
24:50
Speaker 11: economy is going right now, Steve. I work in funds
24:52
Speaker 11: management and property, and what I'm seeing, for example, is
24:57
Speaker 11: the smart money, people who are investors, retreating from making investments.
25:02
Speaker 1: They're sitting back.
25:04
Speaker 11: And I'm being told by commercial property agents that I
25:07
Speaker 11: deal with that, you know, property deals in the range
25:10
Speaker 11: of sort of $ 20.
25:12
Speaker 1: Million to $ 150 million are falling over.
25:15
Speaker 11: And fund managers who are trying to raise money are
25:18
Speaker 11: finding it very, very difficult to get money from investors.
25:21
Speaker 11: And that does not bode well. It's a lag effect,
25:24
Speaker 11: but it's coming, I'm afraid, Steve. There is a downturn coming.
25:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, you and I have the same whiff about the economy.
25:31
Speaker 2: You wouldn't think about it, though, if you're listening or
25:33
Speaker 2: watching Jim Chalmers in Question Time numerous occasions, insisting the
25:38
Speaker 2: economy is in good shape. Have a look at this.
25:41
Speaker 2: I mean, he obviously... I don't know if he doesn't
25:45
Speaker 2: understand basic economics. I mean, I'm not an economist, you're
25:48
Speaker 2: not an economist, but he seems to just be trying
25:51
Speaker 2: to bluff his way through and say there's no problem.
25:56
Speaker 1: Well, absolutely, Steve.
25:58
Speaker 11: And this is the problem. And it's not just the politicians.
26:03
Speaker 11: I fear that the Reserve Bank don't get it. I
26:05
Speaker 11: fear that the people in Treasury don't get it. They're
26:08
Speaker 11: so insulated. And there's also this sort of thing, it's
26:11
Speaker 11: almost denial.
26:12
Speaker 1: And what I'm.
26:13
Speaker 11: Worried about is what happened back in sort of 89...
26:17
Speaker 11: where they cranked up interest rates to such high levels
26:21
Speaker 11: to crush inflation that.
26:22
Speaker 1: They then had a very severe recession. This is the trouble.
26:27
Speaker 11: Right now, things like this unemployment rate are sort of
26:31
Speaker 11: the warning signs that.
26:34
Speaker 1: It's on, that employers have.
26:37
Speaker 11: stop to hire or are pulling back on hiring. And
26:41
Speaker 11: I've just said to you that investment decisions are being
26:44
Speaker 11: sort of postponed by investors.
26:45
Speaker 1: The smart money is sitting on the sidelines. That is
26:50
Speaker 1: not a good... That is just not a good place
26:52
Speaker 1: to be. And, by the way, in big measure, that is.
26:55
Speaker 11: Due to what, you know, for people who are investing
27:04
Speaker 11: and trying to create new companies and the jobs of tomorrow.
27:09
Speaker 2: And the regulations that all the state governments overlay everything
27:12
Speaker 2: on them, and it just becomes too hard for a
27:14
Speaker 2: lot of people. And people I know who are big
27:17
Speaker 2: investors have just said, I'm glad I'm out of the game.
27:19
Speaker 2: I'm not going back into it. I'm going to sit
27:21
Speaker 2: on my pile of money and, you know, I'm not
27:23
Speaker 2: getting involved again. Can I just talk about Bob Catter?
27:26
Speaker 2: I mean, we all look at Bob and we think
27:28
Speaker 2: he's You know, very eccentric. But deep down, he's a
27:33
Speaker 2: thinker and an extraordinary bloke. He's held onto that seat,
27:35
Speaker 2: which has been handed down from his father forever. You
27:38
Speaker 2: know Queensland. Should North Queensland, above the Tropic of Capricorn,
27:43
Speaker 2: as he suggests, become a separate state?
27:48
Speaker 1: OK, I'm going to really perhaps surprise you here, mate.
27:51
Speaker 1: I back it. I think it's really worth having a.
27:56
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely.
27:58
Speaker 11: And, indeed, I've got a few people out there who
28:01
Speaker 11: I deal with who are strong advocates, people from Townsville
28:04
Speaker 11: and Cairns, who are having a red-hot go again at
28:07
Speaker 11: all this.
28:08
Speaker 1: It's no accident, I think, that Bob's talking about it.
28:12
Speaker 11: And let's be very clear, the Australian Constitution provides for
28:17
Speaker 11: the creation of new states.
28:19
Speaker 1: And Queensland's a huge state.
28:21
Speaker 11: I mean, the flying distance from Brisbane to Cairns is
28:25
Speaker 11: the same as Brisbane to Melbourne, but it's only one state.
28:29
Speaker 11: And there's a heck of a lot more Queensland from
28:31
Speaker 11: Cairns to the tip of Cape York.
28:35
Speaker 1: So, geographically, it's quite feasible. And Bob's making the point,
28:39
Speaker 1: and it's an old chestnut, you know, in this state.
28:42
Speaker 11: You know, like, they don't care about us down there
28:44
Speaker 11: in Brisbane. Well, it's an ongoing sentiment. But, you know, seriously,
28:49
Speaker 11: there's a lot of wealth generated to the north. And
28:52
Speaker 11: I think, you know, the lefties in the south-east of
28:54
Speaker 11: the state would probably have to focus more on what
28:57
Speaker 11: really makes the state tick if they saw that mineral
29:02
Speaker 11: and royalty wealth disappearing to another state jurisdiction.
29:07
Speaker 2: Well, absolutely. All the mineral royalties will go straight into...
29:11
Speaker 2: Where would the capital be? Townsville or Mackay or Cairns?
29:14
Speaker 2: Where would you put the capital?
29:17
Speaker 11: Well, that would be a problem, mate. There'd be a huge,
29:20
Speaker 11: cuts out on TV, certain type of fight. Yes, there
29:23
Speaker 11: would be. Let's say a bun fight. There'd be a
29:25
Speaker 11: very big bun fight. I mean, yeah, and I'm not
29:28
Speaker 11: going to back a location on your show tonight because
29:31
Speaker 11: I have to deal with people in all those cities.
29:35
Speaker 2: All right, Campbell. Good on you, mate. I'll keep the ongoing...
29:39
Speaker 2: debate about rowing. I'll talk to you about it next week.
29:41
Speaker 2: Campbell Newman there knows Queensland as well as anyone else. OK,
29:45
Speaker 2: let's head overseas to London. Political leaders there are locked
29:48
Speaker 2: in a bitter row about the, can you believe this,
29:50
Speaker 2: the Chagos Islands. Adrian... First, I've got my Atlas out, Adrian,
29:57
Speaker 2: as Adrian joins us from the UK. I've got my
29:59
Speaker 2: Atlas out. Yes, Adrian, they still do exist. Where exactly
30:04
Speaker 2: are the Chagos Islands and why do they matter?
30:09
Speaker 1: Right.
30:09
Speaker 6: To correct you first, I'm in Norway.
30:12
Speaker 1: Today, not London.
30:13
Speaker 12: Very nice, too. The Chagos Islands, which, I mean, I
30:17
Speaker 12: know the Foreign Office official who used to look after them,
30:19
Speaker 12: and I know people who've sailed there. British territory in
30:24
Speaker 12: the ocean has been territory for 200 years or so. And,
30:27
Speaker 12: of course, home for the vital Diego Garcia strategic military
30:31
Speaker 12: base of the U.S. But there's an unholy row going
30:35
Speaker 12: on between parties. And I think they're missing the main point,
30:38
Speaker 12: which is what these islanders who lived there were forced
30:41
Speaker 12: to be removed in the 1960s and are now living
30:44
Speaker 12: back on there, a small number. And that has seemed
30:46
Speaker 12: to be ignored in this current rift.
30:52
Speaker 2: You don't want to be giving away anything. I mean,
30:54
Speaker 2: what the great British Empire has got to do is
30:56
Speaker 2: hang on to stuff. I mean, we've even got an
30:59
Speaker 2: argument or another discussion and debate about the Falkland Islands
31:04
Speaker 2: and whether... I mean, Labor in the UK doesn't seem
31:07
Speaker 2: to worry that, you know, hand it over to... to Argentina.
31:13
Speaker 2: But why would you do that after you fought so
31:16
Speaker 2: hard to hang on to those islands? Nigel Farage apparently
31:19
Speaker 2: has talked about it in a podcast. I mean, he
31:21
Speaker 2: doesn't want to give it up. Why would you give
31:23
Speaker 2: him up?
31:25
Speaker 12: Yeah, now the government, to be fair, have come out
31:27
Speaker 12: very strongly against President Milley of Argentina saying the Falkland
31:30
Speaker 12: dollar is in perpetuity.
31:33
Speaker 1: But I think.
31:34
Speaker 12: It's a case of the labor party have this this
31:37
Speaker 12: embarrassment about our colonial past and it's this decolonization um
31:42
Speaker 12: narrative which has sort of taken hold on the chagos
31:45
Speaker 12: islands um which is is rather as you said it
31:48
Speaker 12: was it's been british territory no one else lived there
31:51
Speaker 12: and the same the there's no rights and of course
31:53
Speaker 12: you can look at current conflicts around the world of
31:56
Speaker 12: territorial disputes about 300 or so so history is that
31:59
Speaker 12: it can be an unfair place but it's uh an
32:01
Speaker 12: unfair sort of uh a factor to judge it on.
32:04
Speaker 6: But you're right.
32:05
Speaker 12: The right of self-determination is what should count, whether it's
32:09
Speaker 12: the Falkland Islands or the Chagos Islands.
32:12
Speaker 2: Well, you should have never given away the greatest island
32:15
Speaker 2: you once had, Australia. You should have hung on to it, mate.
32:18
Speaker 2: Look how wealthy Britain would be now if you had
32:19
Speaker 2: all that iron ore and coal and uranium. You'd be
32:22
Speaker 2: the best place in the world, mate. Can I ask
32:24
Speaker 2: you briefly about this? Because I know you'll have a
32:27
Speaker 2: view on it.
32:28
Speaker 8: This.
32:28
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's now stopped this, but this idea that they
32:31
Speaker 2: were going to livestream the execution of this bloke who
32:35
Speaker 2: dreadfully murdered, I think it was, 13 or more American
32:39
Speaker 2: military personnel... I mean, why would anybody want to sit
32:43
Speaker 2: down and watch the public execution of anybody?
32:49
Speaker 12: Yeah, look, the death penalty, there's pros and cons on
32:53
Speaker 12: either side, and I think most people respect that. But
32:56
Speaker 12: the public live streaming, I think, would... It is something
33:00
Speaker 12: that goes back to sort of a very primitive past.
33:02
Speaker 12: Certain countries still do it, of course. So I think
33:05
Speaker 12: it's been right that it's been in call off, no
33:07
Speaker 12: matter how bad the Trump for live streaming. But you're
33:10
Speaker 12: surprised that I think there will be a lot of.
33:11
Speaker 13: People who would actually watch it, surprisingly enough.
33:15
Speaker 12: But no, I think it's the right decision.
33:16
Speaker 13: It's been called off.
33:18
Speaker 2: Russell Brand, just before you go, he's in court, obviously.
33:22
Speaker 2: He's been described in a fairly accurate way, I would
33:26
Speaker 2: have thought, that he was someone who was preying on women.
33:31
Speaker 2: He's actually reinvented himself. I think he's turned into a
33:35
Speaker 2: Christian now. But this court case is going to go
33:37
Speaker 2: for some time. His career's probably ruined, I guess.
33:41
Speaker 12: Yeah, and look, I mean, Russell Brand, for many people,
33:44
Speaker 12: pretty... a nasty character, sexual... addict, you know, various things, and
33:51
Speaker 12: he annoys people.
33:52
Speaker 1: However, this is.
33:53
Speaker 12: An ongoing case, so I can't, you know, judge what
33:55
Speaker 12: was right. This is a case of many, many years ago.
33:57
Speaker 12: I think, on the other side, I feel a little
34:00
Speaker 12: bit unsettled, sceptical, when these figures that are anti-establishment, there
34:04
Speaker 12: seems to be a lot of concerted campaign from the media,
34:07
Speaker 12: from the courts and the police to sort of silence them,
34:10
Speaker 12: whether you're Russell Brown, whether you're Tommy Robinson, Danny Tomo,
34:13
Speaker 12: various other, these cases. So, You know, I can't really
34:17
Speaker 12: comment on whether he did or not, but it was
34:20
Speaker 12: a long time ago. As you said, he has reinvented
34:21
Speaker 12: himself and got children, happily married, et cetera, et cetera. But,
34:26
Speaker 12: of course, you know, courts do go back many years
34:28
Speaker 12: to put rights to wrong.
34:31
Speaker 2: What mountain are you climbing in Norway?
34:34
Speaker 1: Actually here for work, believe it or not, yeah. So
34:37
Speaker 1: I'll be coming.
34:39
Speaker 2: That'll be the end of the year.
34:40
Speaker 12: That's when I come back to those sort of spheres.
34:44
Speaker 2: Good on you, Adrian. Adrian Hayes there. We'll talk to
34:46
Speaker 2: him in a couple of weeks' time. Coming up later,
34:48
Speaker 2: we'll have the Friday Panel Plus. Saul Kovonek will join
34:51
Speaker 2: me next to discuss why the government's protectionist gas reservation
34:55
Speaker 2: laws could actually be harmful. Welcome back. Rowan Dean coming
35:04
Speaker 2: up after us. I'm very interested in the federal government's
35:07
Speaker 2: new gas reservation laws. I just want to know whether...
35:10
Speaker 2: Will that bring gas prices down, as they claim? But
35:13
Speaker 2: what does it mean for gas exploration? I mean, we've
35:15
Speaker 2: seen what's happened in Victoria. No-one drills for gas here
35:18
Speaker 2: anymore because of what the Labor government did. Some analysts
35:21
Speaker 2: say the scheme is still riddled with uncertainty. Someone who
35:24
Speaker 2: will be able to pick their way through this joins us.
35:27
Speaker 2: He knows all about it. Let's bring in Saul Kovonek,
35:30
Speaker 2: Head of Energy Research at MST Marquee. Are we going
35:34
Speaker 2: to get cheaper gas or are we going to get
35:35
Speaker 2: less gas because no one's going to be bothered drilling
35:38
Speaker 2: for it because the government says you've got to put
35:40
Speaker 2: so much aside for the domestic market?
35:45
Speaker 6: Well, unfortunately, the government's domestic gas policy is turning into
35:50
Speaker 6: an unworkable embarrassment. Now, it needs to be said that
35:55
Speaker 6: there's widespread support for gas reservation on the east coast
35:59
Speaker 6: of Australia, and that's across all key stakeholders and the
36:02
Speaker 6: Australian public, I think. I think the problem we've got
36:06
Speaker 6: here is Labor is proving incapable of actually being able
36:09
Speaker 6: to deliver it. Now, if I could just give perhaps
36:12
Speaker 6: one example, is they've already had four attempts at this
36:17
Speaker 6: after working on it for 18 months, and they still
36:19
Speaker 6: can't even get the definition of exporter rights such that
36:23
Speaker 6: the legislation they've proposed doesn't even capture all the exporters
36:27
Speaker 6: in Queensland because of the way they've drafted it. Steve,
36:31
Speaker 6: I've advised a number of African governments in the past
36:35
Speaker 6: on policy very much like this over the years, and
36:38
Speaker 6: I'm ashamed to say that that we're seeing less professionalism
36:42
Speaker 6: and less competence from our resources and energy departments than
36:46
Speaker 6: anything I've seen in Africa from much less funded, underfunded
36:50
Speaker 6: and inexperienced governments. And so my concern here is not
36:56
Speaker 6: only are there massive loopholes that's still in place which
36:59
Speaker 6: could render this policy essentially meaningless, But it's also going
37:03
Speaker 6: to drive so much uncertainty where Minister Bowen as well
37:07
Speaker 6: as Minister King can make decisions on so many things
37:10
Speaker 6: that effectively this isn't a reservation policy like Western Australia
37:14
Speaker 6: where you have rules which everyone follows, but this is
37:17
Speaker 6: just a market dictated to by ministerial discretion which can
37:21
Speaker 6: change over time. And that means politicization, backroom dealing, and
37:27
Speaker 6: doesn't have the certainty required to have investment. And that
37:30
Speaker 6: net result of all this is likely to be less investment,
37:35
Speaker 6: less gas. And that's going to drive up prices, particularly
37:40
Speaker 6: from the 2030s onwards.
37:43
Speaker 2: It's what happens when you get politicians involved in things
37:46
Speaker 2: they know nothing about. I mean, just look at the...
37:48
Speaker 2: I mentioned Victoria. You had an energy minister in Victoria,
37:51
Speaker 2: Lily D'Ambrosio, who basically shut the gas industry down. There's
37:56
Speaker 2: heaps of gas under the dirt in Victoria, but no-one
37:59
Speaker 2: is willing to put their own capital in to pull
38:02
Speaker 2: it out of the ground because they don't trust the
38:04
Speaker 2: Victorian government.
38:07
Speaker 1: That's right.
38:07
Speaker 8: And it works.
38:08
Speaker 6: The government is showing itself incapable of delivering on its
38:12
Speaker 6: own intent. So the example of Victoria is, yes, they're
38:15
Speaker 6: very hostile to gas and drove that into the ground.
38:18
Speaker 6: But at the same time, they ended up then using
38:20
Speaker 6: secret deals to support coal-fired power generation, which is not
38:23
Speaker 6: what they wanted either. And so you're seeing a government
38:26
Speaker 6: which is actually... proving incapable of understanding the markets and
38:31
Speaker 6: industries that they're supposed to be regulating. And so we're
38:34
Speaker 6: getting all these unintended consequences and risks as a result.
38:38
Speaker 6: None of this is being intended by the government. It's
38:39
Speaker 6: just happening through sheer ineptitude. And that's why there always
38:43
Speaker 6: needs to be greater caution before you start making massive
38:47
Speaker 6: market changes. Because if you don't get it right, because
38:50
Speaker 6: you don't understand what you're doing, you end up having
38:52
Speaker 6: the exact opposite effect of what you're doing. And you'll remember, Steve,
38:55
Speaker 6: back in late 2022, The government introduced a gas price
38:58
Speaker 6: cap saying this will be the last of all the
39:00
Speaker 6: gas market interventions. We've fixed it now. That hasn't worked,
39:04
Speaker 6: which is why they're now trying to do a reservation.
39:07
Speaker 6: And the fact is they've learned none of the lessons
39:09
Speaker 6: from their failed policy in late 2022. And unfortunately, I
39:12
Speaker 6: think we're going to see another failed policy now. And
39:14
Speaker 6: that's going to mean we're going to be back here
39:16
Speaker 6: in 18 months' time. Gas buyers will be under pressure.
39:19
Speaker 6: Gas producers will be in a worse place. And they're
39:21
Speaker 6: going to have to change the market again because they
39:23
Speaker 6: can never seem to get this right.
39:26
Speaker 2: What am I doing if I'm sitting there in Japan
39:29
Speaker 2: with a contract? in my hand that says you've guaranteed
39:32
Speaker 2: you're going to supply me with all this gas? I mean,
39:34
Speaker 2: what's it doing to discussions in countries offshore about sovereign
39:38
Speaker 2: risk here?
39:40
Speaker 6: Look, I can't tell you how damaging it has been.
39:41
Speaker 6: So it was only last week that Treasurer Chalmers was
39:44
Speaker 6: in Japan assuring everybody that they will be protected. We
39:48
Speaker 6: are going to be a reliable supplier of energy. And
39:51
Speaker 6: the issue here is not even the reservation policy itself,
39:54
Speaker 6: because I think most of our trade partners can understand
39:56
Speaker 6: that we want to keep some of our Australian gas
39:59
Speaker 6: reserve for Australians. That's not really under debate. What the
40:02
Speaker 6: concern here is, is when the Japanese government and the
40:06
Speaker 6: Japanese industry and other industry participants come to the government,
40:10
Speaker 6: explain some of their concerns. The government says, we understand
40:13
Speaker 6: your concerns. We're going to fix this. And then the
40:15
Speaker 6: draft comes out and none of it's been fixed. And
40:17
Speaker 6: they're losing faith that Australia is a serious country where
40:21
Speaker 6: we keep our word. And that is doing a lot
40:23
Speaker 6: more damage than any one policy or one element of
40:26
Speaker 6: this policy mechanisms, which, you know, reasonable people can differ on.
40:31
Speaker 2: Straits of Hormuz doesn't look like being fixed any time soon.
40:34
Speaker 2: That war goes on and on and on. What's it
40:36
Speaker 2: going to mean ultimately for our supply of diesel in
40:40
Speaker 2: particular because of what that does? It keeps the country
40:43
Speaker 2: running and also other petroleum. The government keeps saying, oh, no,
40:47
Speaker 2: don't worry, we've got more reserves here than what we
40:50
Speaker 2: had in the beginning. Barley ran out of diesel the
40:52
Speaker 2: other day.
40:54
Speaker 6: Well, I think that barley example shows how vulnerable we
40:57
Speaker 6: can be.
40:58
Speaker 9: And....
41:00
Speaker 6: What we're seeing is ultimately that there's no clear line
41:03
Speaker 6: at the end of the tunnel for this conflict. In fact,
41:05
Speaker 6: we remain on an escalatory trajectory in the Iran theory,
41:10
Speaker 6: both for the Strait of Hormuz and for energy infrastructure
41:12
Speaker 6: beyond that, as well as in the Ukraine-Russia war. Diesel's
41:15
Speaker 6: the most acute product at risk. Now, thankfully, we've seen
41:21
Speaker 6: that deal between Europe and the US administration, which has
41:24
Speaker 6: seen Trump walk back from his threats to restrict diesel exports,
41:27
Speaker 6: which is very important for Australia because we are so
41:30
Speaker 6: vulnerable on the diesel supply chain. We actually account for 10%
41:34
Speaker 6: of the world's seaborne diesel demand because of our big
41:37
Speaker 6: agricultural and mining sectors. But we're not out of the
41:40
Speaker 6: woods on this here. And even modest disruptions now can
41:44
Speaker 6: threaten us and not just us but our Pacific neighbours.
41:47
Speaker 6: So we need to remember our Pacific neighbours use diesel
41:49
Speaker 6: to keep the lights on. We need to look after
41:51
Speaker 6: them too because if we don't, that's going to be
41:53
Speaker 6: an inroad for China. as well and so what this
41:57
Speaker 6: is a big reminder of is that energy supply chains
42:00
Speaker 6: and energy security is not just an energy matter or
42:03
Speaker 6: an economic matter it's a national security matter australia's dropped
42:06
Speaker 6: the ball we've gone from being entirely self almost entirely
42:09
Speaker 6: self-sufficient 20 years ago in oil and diesel jet fuel
42:13
Speaker 6: and gasoline and we're now almost entirely dependent on imports
42:16
Speaker 6: and that has to change. We have to stop being
42:19
Speaker 6: hostile towards developing our own resources, which just makes us
42:22
Speaker 6: more reliant on hostile actors like Russia and Iran for
42:25
Speaker 6: our energy. Be more self-sufficient again. And I hope and
42:29
Speaker 6: expect that our government's going to start acting on this.
42:32
Speaker 2: Always good to catch up. Thank you very much, Saul.
42:34
Speaker 2: Good on you, mate. Always good to pick your brain.
42:36
Speaker 2: And amazingly, Chris Bowen's COP meeting in Fiji and in
42:42
Speaker 2: Tuvalu was all run on diesel. OK, after the break,
42:45
Speaker 2: our panel. Just before we go to our panel, some
42:51
Speaker 2: breaking news in the last hour. The Herald Sun is
42:53
Speaker 2: reporting that a Chilean couple who had boarded a Jetstar flight,
42:57
Speaker 2: which was due to fly from Bali to Melbourne from Denpasar,
43:01
Speaker 2: have allegedly been caught with 4.59 kilograms of cocaine. Pretty
43:07
Speaker 2: dramatic stuff. We'll see it playing out over the next
43:09
Speaker 2: few days. Let's bring in our panellists, Joe Hildebrand and
43:12
Speaker 2: Jen Fleming. Great to see you both. I want to
43:15
Speaker 2: talk to you, Joe, our resident Labor insider, as you
43:19
Speaker 2: are cramped down there in the Newcastle airport. Does your mate, Albo,
43:26
Speaker 2: actually get on with Jim Chalmers? Give us the inside gossip.
43:30
Speaker 13: I think in politics, most relationships are transactional. I think
43:36
Speaker 13: Albo likes his treasurer. They work well together, but... Any
43:40
Speaker 13: leader is not going to want to have an obvious
43:43
Speaker 13: heir apparent waiting in the wings, because of course, that
43:46
Speaker 13: means that when things go a bit wobbly, it's all
43:49
Speaker 13: too easy for people to think, oh, well, we can
43:51
Speaker 13: just do the old switcheroo. So the PM is always,
43:55
Speaker 13: I think, at pains to observe that there is a
43:58
Speaker 13: wealth of talent on the front bench of the government.
44:02
Speaker 13: I'm not sure if all the News 24 viewers will
44:05
Speaker 13: agree with that, but that there are plenty of people
44:07
Speaker 13: who could do his job. And he has basically anointed
44:10
Speaker 13: Mark Butler, a factional ally, to be his successor anyway.
44:15
Speaker 13: That's the inside mail.
44:18
Speaker 2: Jen, I'm not sure anyone can do a worse job
44:19
Speaker 2: than Jim Chalmers, I must say, but there is a
44:22
Speaker 2: fair bit of pressure on there. I mean, there's still
44:25
Speaker 2: an election a long way away, 2028. What's your feeling?
44:30
Speaker 2: And I'll give you mine in a second. Do you
44:31
Speaker 2: think Anthony Albanese will still be our Prime Minister when
44:34
Speaker 2: we next go to an election?
44:37
Speaker 1: Well, who knows?
44:38
Speaker 10: But I think back to what Jo was saying, I
44:39
Speaker 10: don't think these guys are friends. They went from finishing
44:42
Speaker 10: each other's sentences to now correcting each other's statements. That's
44:44
Speaker 10: not a great place to be in any relationship. I
44:47
Speaker 10: think we've got to call it for what it is, guys. Like,
44:49
Speaker 10: come on, they're not getting along. And Jim's probably measuring
44:52
Speaker 10: the curtains up in the PMO, so is Mark Butler.
44:55
Speaker 10: I don't know whether Albo will be there, but what
44:57
Speaker 10: I do know is that small businesses and Australian people
45:00
Speaker 10: are not going to forget that they went to the
45:02
Speaker 10: election last time telling us they wouldn't change capital gains checks,
45:05
Speaker 10: they wouldn't introduce any changes to negative gearing. They wouldn't
45:07
Speaker 10: make it harder for small businesses. And here we are,
45:10
Speaker 10: 18 months in, with a pretty tough time for Australians.
45:13
Speaker 10: We're not going to forget that, no matter who the
45:14
Speaker 10: leader is.
45:15
Speaker 2: No, I suspect Dalbo will be at Copacabana Beach by
45:18
Speaker 2: the time we get to the next election. I want
45:20
Speaker 2: to talk about Donald Trump and his press secretary. Now, this... Obviously,
45:24
Speaker 2: she's got very big shoes to fill, the new press secretary.
45:28
Speaker 2: She's either a lawyer or she's not. I'm not quite sure.
45:33
Speaker 2: She's got herself into all sorts of trouble. She came
45:36
Speaker 2: out and made some comments not only about, you know,
45:40
Speaker 2: the economy and how Donald Trump was doing such a
45:42
Speaker 2: fantastic job. She said she used to work in China, Joe,
45:47
Speaker 2: and that apparently China lacks proper toilets. I've been to
45:52
Speaker 2: Hong Kong, not to China, but is that right?
45:56
Speaker 13: Look, I wouldn't imagine so. I would imagine that a
45:59
Speaker 13: country that's got nuclear weapons probably knows how to produce
46:02
Speaker 13: a toilet. Marcel Duchamp did it. So they've got very
46:05
Speaker 13: state-of-the-art toilets here at Newcastle Airport too. So I think
46:11
Speaker 13: she's a bit all over the place. And to be honest,
46:12
Speaker 13: I think this reflects worse on the administration than it
46:16
Speaker 13: does on her. There are so many kind of things
46:20
Speaker 13: that don't check out, you know, whether or not she's
46:22
Speaker 13: actually passed the bar exam. It doesn't look like she
46:24
Speaker 13: has at all. And obviously that first press conference where
46:28
Speaker 13: she's just started giving a speech and it just went
46:30
Speaker 13: downhill from there. How on earth anyone could have, you know,
46:35
Speaker 13: missed all those red flags or thought she was ready
46:38
Speaker 13: to hit the road, I do not know.
46:41
Speaker 2: Even Sean Hannity didn't seem to be too impressed with
46:44
Speaker 2: her legal qualifications. He ran her through that today and said, well,
46:49
Speaker 2: are you an attorney or are you a lawyer? What
46:51
Speaker 2: are you? Hey, Jen, I love this video today. I
46:54
Speaker 2: spotted it. An Australian guy, he's travelling around the world
46:58
Speaker 2: and he's been left gobsmacked by how much fuel costs
47:02
Speaker 2: in Iran. Have a look at this. Petrol in Iran
47:07
Speaker 2: is cheaper than water.
47:09
Speaker 4: 1,500 tomans.
47:11
Speaker 3: Which is like less than one Australian cent.
47:14
Speaker 5: Exactly. It's crazy.
47:16
Speaker 12: One Australian dollar gets.
47:18
Speaker 8: You 121 litres of petrol.
47:21
Speaker 6: That is incredible.
47:26
Speaker 2: Jen, I was at the petrol station this morning. I'm
47:29
Speaker 2: not getting it that cheaply. What's going on in Iran?
47:31
Speaker 2: No wonder they're still winning the war.
47:36
Speaker 10: Well, I'm not getting it that cheaply either, but I
47:38
Speaker 10: would rather pay $ 200 to fill up my Prado than
47:41
Speaker 10: lose my rights as a woman, which I would under
47:43
Speaker 10: an Iranian regime. So I think for me I will
47:46
Speaker 10: take the higher petrol prices, even though they are a
47:49
Speaker 10: tough pill to swallow, as opposed to what they're doing
47:51
Speaker 10: to women over there.
47:53
Speaker 2: Now, Joe, this is in your wheelhouse. Australian woman from Ballina.
47:56
Speaker 2: We love Ballina in New South Wales, northern New South Wales.
47:59
Speaker 2: Woke up this morning. The Powerball people were ringing up saying,
48:03
Speaker 2: you've won $ 100 million. The first thing she said was
48:06
Speaker 2: something I reckon most of us, the three of us
48:08
Speaker 2: on this panel, she screamed down the phone, what the F?
48:12
Speaker 2: Then she asked for eggs and bacon. I reckon with
48:15
Speaker 2: the $ 100 million, she could buy the poultry farm, buy
48:18
Speaker 2: the piggery and probably buy a local McDonald's and still
48:21
Speaker 2: have a lot of money left over.
48:23
Speaker 13: Oh, look, these days, Pricey, I think she'd be lucky
48:25
Speaker 13: to be able to afford a cup of coffee at
48:26
Speaker 13: Sydney Airport. So true.
48:30
Speaker 2: Jen, I reckon you'd say exactly the same if someone
48:32
Speaker 2: told you that you'd won $ 100 million. Thank you both.
48:35
Speaker 2: Enjoy your travels, Joe. Jen, thank you very much for that.
48:38
Speaker 2: I mean, absolutely incredible, those petrol prices in Iran. I mean,
48:43
Speaker 2: you can't believe it, can you? And if I won
48:45
Speaker 2: $ 100 million, guess what, folks? I won't be here next Friday.
48:49
Speaker 2: Rowan Dean's up next.