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How Parenting Eight Kids Forced Me to Harness Systems Over Emotions with Paul Voss · ABCs of Parenting Adult Children

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_04: What did this journey teach you about parenting that you didn't know before?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that you'll never figure it all out.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first thing.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I think when I was, you know, when she was born, I was like, I'm gonna nail this dad thing now.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: I've had seven, like we've learned all my mistakes and I'm ready to do it.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um the other really, like I think the one thing that I I maybe knew a part of but didn't fully understand is like no one's coming to save your kid.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: You as a parent know what's best for your child, and you have to always be an advocate for your child, whether it's with the school, doctors, anybody, you have to ask important questions and really understand, you know, what what's their desired outcome they're trying to get or or what is their goal and make sure it aligns with you your your goal as a parent.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: And if it doesn't, you need to speak up and explain why it doesn't align with what what your goals are.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the podcast ABCs of parenting adult children.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Please join us as we discuss parenting adult children and the unique struggles that it comes along with.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: I'm doing well.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: How are you doing?
• 1:30
  unknown: Good.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_04: Do me a favor and introduce yourself to the listening audience.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Paul Voss.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a dad of eight, five girls, three boys.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: I live in Connecticut with my wife.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I've recently put out my first book, Autism Sucks, Finding Hope in the Chaos.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I was really inspired to write it after my eighth child was diagnosed with autism, right around the age of two, really wanting to just share what we've learned and what has helped us maybe give some hope to other parents that are dealing with an autism diagnosis.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_04: So you're a father of eight, including a child with autism.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_04: Can you share a bit about your parenting journey and what has shaped your perspective?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um it, you know, having having seven kids, none of them neurodiverse, like you start to learn.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: I learned not to get too upset about delays because I'd always seen them kind of just catch up, right?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: So if one was delayed in talking, if one was delayed in being potty trained, I had become probably more laid back by the time we got to our eighth child.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: But with the eighth, I felt like I finally figured out everything to parenting, like all the tips and tricks, and like I was ready to be the perfect dad, which was not the case with the child on the spectrum because what they want is a lot different.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say I've evolved a lot.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Really, I I don't try to get upset over small things and really just worry about the bigger things because a lot of the small things just play themselves out.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Again, as an early dad, you know, they cut their hand.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was worried about it.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it's just, you know, going with the flow a lot, being patient is probably the biggest thing.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: You you just have to be patient because you're gonna have awful days, you're gonna have great days, and you just have to be patient and get through it because you're their parent and you're really, you know, the person that's supposed to look out for them and have their best interests in mind at all times.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: So you know what causes that, right?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Having eight kids.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: I did.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: I did, yes, figured it out finally.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_04: Some people say it's the water coolers.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_04: But you have you have a you have a a full baseball team, right?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: There you go.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_04: So you you said parenting eight forces you to think in systems, not just emotions.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_04: What does that mean in practical terms?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, really, it's about just systems all the time, right?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: You can't organize your life without systems, especially with eight kids.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's thinking ahead.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: What are we doing tomorrow?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: What time do we have to get up?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Who has to beware?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: What are we gonna have for dinner?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: And not only what are we gonna have for dinner tomorrow, what are we gonna have for dinner next week, um, trying to plan out as much as you can just to make it as easy as possible.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's hard no matter what as a parent.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was hard when we had one kid, hard when we had two.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard no matter what, but putting just structure and systems in place around like the easy things helps so when surprises come up, you know, you're running your kid to the ER unexpectedly or just random things that can come up throughout a day and a week, having just processes in place, any type of system will it's not going to be easy still, but it will make it easier for you.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_04: So when you're talking about systems, do you have like a planner or do you have you have a plan in place that you write everything out?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, what what age groups are you dealing with?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm dealing with um seventeen and then you know about an 18-month difference in between each, all the way down to six.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: So seventeen to six.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_04: Six.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: So we've tried using like Google Calendar and stuff.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: They don't really work for us.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we actually find it the best thing to do is just we have a big calendar that we hang up and put everything on it.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: That way it's easy.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone can look at it.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's in a spot where everyone walks by.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: They can see you know what's happening not only today, tomorrow, the next week.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: That that has really worked well for us.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: I do write a lot of things down, but more retrospective now.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: So more of like what happened in that day to kind of reflect on what I did well, what didn't go well, you know, what were the wins for the day, just so I I think that also helps because like I said, there's always days that are bad or where you feel like things aren't going well as a parent.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Having, you know, written down the things that where you saw wins can help whenever you're you're feeling frustrated.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_04: So do do you and your wife work outside of the home?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um my wife stays at home and also homeschools our youngest who was diagnosed with autism.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, gotcha.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: So with eight children, how does that how does that look as far as day-to-day activities and and how do y'all how do y'all manage that?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it it's hard.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, spring season and fall are the worst, just because our my kids play a lot of different sports, and some of the sports they play are like I would just say more intense, right?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: So soccer, football, uh, lacrosse, they tend to have multiple practices a week and you know, at least one game a weekend for football.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes lacrosse has two, soccer has two.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's funny because sometimes like every year we get their schedules for like spring or fall, and we look at it and we're like, we don't know how we're gonna do it.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of it is just you know, prioritizing what's important.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um we try to get them to everything, but you know, is it a practice that is for a certain game that's gonna be harder?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: We need to make sure they're there.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um did they already go to practice twice this week?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Could they afford to miss a practice?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Could they come with us to the other kids' event and you know, just practice on their own?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of it's just assessing the situation, like what's the most important thing that we have to do this day, and then building around it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: There are times where we might ask another parent if they can give a ride.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Fortunately, my oldest has started driving now, so she's another option.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how that's gonna work.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: This is kind of our first season of sports with that as an option.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that that's another option that we didn't have before, and I'm hoping that will help a lot as well.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Is that your 17-year-old?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_04: Correct, yes.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_04: Gotcha.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_04: And so did your insurance go through the roof?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: It did.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: It did.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh she she didn't have a strong interest in driving at first.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: She turned 16, I took her to get her permit.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: In Connecticut, there's kind of a long lag between when you get your permit and when you start driving.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it definitely went up, and then when we got a car for her to drive, it it definitely went up even more.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's ridiculous.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_04: Well, luckily she's a girl because boys are even worse.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_04: The insurance rates really go up when it's a boy.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm taking my young man.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm taking my 16-year-old boy to get his permit tomorrow.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: So ironically.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I will be dealing with that.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: It it'll be about a six-month process before I have to worry about insurance changes, but I I'm definitely not looking forward to it.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: So have you been teaching your kids how to drive?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I have been.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I started late with my daughter and I I kind of felt bad because I knew how to drive at a young age, like way before I was 16.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think it may have been more common than to just you know drive at younger ages when when I was like 12, 13, 14.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I have been so taking them to a parking lot and then um you know just practicing driving.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um started doing it with my son a lot earlier.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that that's been great.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's building memories and it's also scary, honestly, as a parent because you have no control, literally.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was a lot more stressful than I thought it would be early on.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I remember when I was growing up, uh my dad sucked at trying to teach me how to drive.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_04: And we had gravel roads back then.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_04: That was back in between 76 and 80, and we didn't not all roads were paved.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: The road in front of our house was was not paved, and so gravel roads are a little different to drive on.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_04: So you've shared that autism didn't just change your child, it changed your entire family.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: How did it change you as a father?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I it definitely made me a better dad.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it made me more patient, and I I really think it helped me have an appreciation for smaller things in life.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, I would always look for like big wins before, but really learn to celebrate small things and and even realize some of the things I'm looking for are not actually what I want.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, like an example is I talk about in the book, um, when we first figured out that it was right before she was diagnosed formally with autism, but we knew at that point it was likely that was going to be the diagnosis.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things that really upset me as a dad was the fact that she was non-speaking, nonverbal.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things I I was thinking right away is like, I may never hear her say I love you.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Fast forward, I finished my book, I'm literally about to put it out, and then I'm sitting in the kitchen with her and my wife one night, and she says, I love you.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then she says it again.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: And my wife's like, Did you just hear that?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Yeah, and it was just funny to me because it was something I wanted so bad, but then when I heard it, it wasn't even close to how she showed me she loves me.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's things like that that I've learned from her, like what real, you know, what love really is, because she shows it better than anyone could because she she can't say it, so she has to show it in other ways.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: That was just one example, but I've seen it impact my whole family in a positive way too.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: We also changed our diets as a result of the diagnosis, so we went gluten-free, dairy-free, and took out processed foods.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: My oldest son was diagnosed with ADHD prior to any autism diagnosis, and we had tried this traditional route.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: We put him on Adderall, and probably within a week and a half of taking it, he started talking about suicide.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we had a meeting with the pediatrician, pulled him off of it, and then I just started researching the side effects of it, and it's it's a known side effect.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: You you can see it, like there's a lot of stories out there of parents putting their kids on Adderall, and then unfortunately, their kids either talking about it or going through with suicide.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: We tried to manage the symptoms ourselves, didn't, didn't do that great, but then the diet changes that we did for our daughter actually benefited him.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: So he's no longer on any accommodation at school and he's an honor student, has has no symptoms of ADHD anymore.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: So like seeing things like that, you know, as bad as the diagnosis has been, just reminds me that there's a lot of good things that have come out of it as well.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: So at what at what point did you recognize or realize that there was an issue with your your daughter that has autism?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_04: What what were some of the symptoms and and how did you how did y'all pivot with regards to getting her diagnosed?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it started in January 2022.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: COVID hit our house.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: It hit me and my wife really bad.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: My seven other kids got it and they were better within like a day, so like running nose, and then but my youngest, she stopped sleeping.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um it just was like she wouldn't go to sleep until 10, 11, 12 at night.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: If we could get her to fall asleep, she'd sleep like two hours and then wake up again.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mentioned before, like seeing with the other kids, none of my kids were like particularly great sleepers, so we're like, oh, we'll get through COVID and then the sleep will fix itself.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a couple weeks later, still not better.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then we started to see some other signs.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: The eye contact started going away, some weird episodes where it was like she didn't recognize me or my wife, and then she still wasn't talking yet, at least consistently.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: She had a few words.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we decided to start speech therapy.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: And the first meeting we had with the speech therapist, she said, Have you gotten her tested for autism?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we obviously hadn't at that time, but based on that question, we decided we should go through with it.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a wait time, so you can't just say, Oh, I want to go get tested for it.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you have to find a doctor to do it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then unfortunately, with the rise in autism, I believe there's a wait list basically to get a confirmation.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: But we knew before the results came in that she had it just because you start researching on your own.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Admittedly, I I didn't know anything about autism.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: At first, I was like, let's get her diagnosed so we can you know fix the fix it.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea how complex it is, how much money it costs, how much time people spend.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, some people get positive results, some get none.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, they call it a spectrum, I think, for a reason, because it really is.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: You you don't know.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, every case of autism that I've seen is totally different.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, some some very few similarities on like maybe things that the kids do, but nothing else is similar there.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, uh you know, we got the diagnosis, we we kind of already knew at that point, though.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um we knew prior to that that we really wanted to go the natural route or as much as possible, just because you know, with our son, we had seen the fact that the the medication didn't really help him.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: And also with my mom, prior to any of this occurring, she she she had schizophrenia my whole life and was during COVID, things got progressively worse and she got COVID, she got removed from her group home.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Based on the confusion, she ended up fighting with a guard and ended up going basically to prison, which was ridiculous because she was just confused.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was it was I mean, everything was fixed because they you know, when you're in an you know, when you can prove someone's been in an institution slash group home for 20 plus years, clearly they're they're not capable of standing trial or really knowing what's going on.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: But uh one of the things that happened during that time, her her social worker sent me just a list of all the medications she was on, and I remember reading it, and then there was also a breakdown of like what she could or couldn't do, and she couldn't even like use a vending machine.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I just remember thinking, like, why is she on all this medication if she can't even do like a basic thing, like use a vending machine?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Something is not right there.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Ironically, around the same time, I was listening to a podcast and they talked about how the keto diet has been a really positive thing for people with schizophrenia.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I just remember thinking about my mom, and it's like we never even knew that was an option.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, could that could things have been a lot different if we had gone that route?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that was really like when when we got the diagnosis, we we thought, you know what, we're gonna kind of try every option and and do everything we can to help our daughter because we know she wasn't born that way, so you know we we don't we don't think it's permanent.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know some people do think autism diagnosis is permanent.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: We we don't believe that.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm sorry to hear about your mom.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_04: That's uh I'm I'm sure that's tough.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um I think that you may or may not agree with this, but I believe that the medical establishment I mean it's 2026 and we haven't cured cancer yet.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 19:47
  unknown: Yeah.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_04: And so even if we had the technology to cure cancer, I don't think the pharmaceutical companies would allow that to happen.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_04: Just like the petroleum industry is not going to allow EVs to take over or to get prominent in you know in in America, especially because, you know, we spend billions of dollars on on crude oil, right?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: And and I have heard that some doctors, not all of them, and there are good doctors out there.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: I don't want to I'm not dissing on doctors.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_04: We all need good MDs, general practitioners, specialists, and all that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_04: And we're fortunate in America to have access to uh a good uh medical care.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_04: Uh hopefully you have insurance, because if you don't have insurance, then you may be in trouble.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_04: You may not be able to get access to good medical care.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_04: But I think that I think our um especially in America, I think that doctors just tend to over medicate.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's like, you know, I'm I'll turn 65 this year, and it seems like every time I have a new ache or pain, or the, you know, it's like every day the check check engine light comes on and you know, some sort of system's failing, or every time I go to the doctor and like when I go to the cardiologist, he's always tweaking my medications, or if I go to my general practitioner and I'll tell him of something, he'll go, Well, let me put you on this.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, I'm on seven or eight pills a day, you know, or more.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, no, let's let's try to wean me off of some of this stuff.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I think I think the key thing that you said is is that is that processed foods suck.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_04: They're horrible.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: They're horrible for for us.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_04: And we we have an obesity problem in America because we're just eating all these processed foods.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_04: You know, they say always stay on on the outside outskirts of the if you go to the grocery store, all the processed foods in the middle, all your fruits and vegetables and and meat and chicken and stuff like that's on the outside of the of the store.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_04: And if as much as you can s you know, stay away from processed foods.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's good to to have that knowledge.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_04: And you being a father of eight, it's good that that you can implement a good diet in your children now while they're young and and so they don't get hooked on carbohydrates and sugars and you know that's not good.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_04: Definitely not.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_04: What other question can I ask you?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: So um I mean, how do you feel about the when you when you when you uh started going to to take your daughter to the doctor to get diagnosed?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: And ha what was your experience as a father with the the medical establishment?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the di the diagnosis part, I thought they were they were great.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll never forget, like, you know, as a parent hearing that news, it's crushing, right?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: When they tell you your your child is on the spectrum, even if you already know, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's just a confirmation.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: But what I appreciated about her when she told us, she she didn't tell us the level.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: So there's different levels, one, two, and three.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: My my daughter's level three, which is profound autism, right?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like non-speaking, nonverbal, has meltdowns, stims, everything.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: So the most extreme case that you that you can get, even there, there's a spectrum even there, but you know, it would be extreme autism or profound autism.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: The fact that she didn't tell us and said, I don't want to assign a level because she's young and things can change, they can improve.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think just as a parent not getting like she's level three diet, she's diagnosed level three at that time was probably helpful because I I think it would have been even worse.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: But after that, our experience with like just the standard American medical system wasn't great.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we had her, you know, we worked with a lot of specialists, and um, one of the things we had done was some testing on her, um, and they found that she had a genetic defect.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's called the MTHFR defect.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: And um essentially it it's the way your body processes stuff, it doesn't process it the same way as like I do.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: So if I get a vaccine, stuff might will come out of my body as normal.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: In her case, she can't get everything out.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so we wanted to have a meeting with the pediatrician just to talk about it.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: And basically she said, I won't talk to you about vaccines, I won't see you even if you're questioning them.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, it made it easy for us to know who we couldn't work with anymore because she didn't didn't even want to meet with us.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um but even on like the the natural side, I'll say like it it's been frustrating in some cases as well because you know it's not big pharma, but it's them pushing a bunch of supplements too.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I I don't think that's helpful either, putting your kid on a bunch of supplements, especially kids who are non speaking, nonverbal, they can't tell you what's happening.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: No one can really know what the impact is of mixing, you know, eight to ten supplements a day and giving it to someone.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Just like it's the same argument they use against vaccines, right?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're mixing all these vaccines together now and giving to kids, or even mixing together all these different pharmaceuticals, like they There hasn't been enough time to even study all of it and understand how people react.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: So my biggest frustration in general, both even working with the in the standard Western medical, but then also even with some specialists that, you know, are more natural.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's this desire to put a bunch put you on a bunch of stuff that I just don't think your body needs.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I'm more in favor of like, here's one thing.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, what's it doing?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Is it helping or not?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: If it's not helping, don't take it.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: If it's helping, okay, let's try something else.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: But doing it slowly and incrementally.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_04: I have I've had a lady on the podcast, her name's Mary Toko.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if you've ever heard of her.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_04: Uh she's called Maha Mary in in the vaccine circles.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_04: And she's been on my show several times, and she's done, she spent 40 years researching vaccines.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_04: And most of what she says is very alarming.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_04: Some of the some of the things that they put in these vaccines that has been and it's it's not just conjecture or whatever.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's like it's like medical professionals have actually studied vaccines over the years, and there's just a lot of ugly stuff in vaccines.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_04: And I know I know you know that's not really a debate I want to have on the podcast, but uh I think it's I think it's as a parent, I think it's our job and our responsibility to educate ourselves on you know what's being pushed, whether it be pharmaceuticals, whether it be vaccines, where whether it be over-diagnosing, you know, it's like when I was when I was being you know, when I was a kid and being raised up as a teenager or whatever, you know, kids today, my wife's a special ed teacher, okay, she's been doing that for 25 years.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_04: And some of the things some of the children that are being diagnosed with ADHD or some other things could be straightened out at home with with some good old fashioned parenting, right?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_04: Totally.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm I am certainly not against corporal punishment.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I got I got spanked on several occasions as I was growing up, and I think I've turned out pretty well, and I know there's a huge debate about that too, you know.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_04: Uh but uh you know the the bottom line is is parents have to educate themselves on on their their parenting methodology and all of that.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_04: So so it's funny you said the doctor said she's not she wasn't gonna she wasn't gonna debate vaccines with you or she wasn't gonna see you because you were questioning it.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I mean to that point, I mean, all my other seven kids were fully vaccinated.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we delayed on some of our older kids, but we would never like just not going to vaccinate them.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's funny because my stance has changed completely now.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like I would never give my kids another vaccine, or if I could go back in time, I would have never given them a single vaccine.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Not I wouldn't say anti-vax, but you know, I'm a former vaxxer.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_04: So well, I mean, look, we have a in America, we have a measles outbreak.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and they they had a measles vaccine, what, in the twenties or thirties or whatever it was, and pretty much eradicated it.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I I don't think that I'm not a health expert here, okay?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm just talking just having a conversation.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_04: But I don't think all vaccines are bad.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_04: And and again, it all boils down to having a good relationship with your primary care physician or the specialist you're talking to, and educating yourself and asking good, solid questions when you're in front of that, you know.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm not talking I'm not talking Web MD, I'm talking about researching, you know.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_04: We've got we've got a lot of technology at our fingertips to where we can dig into the information that we need to get so you can ask intelligent questions when you're in front of a medical professional, you know.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_04: And you don't it's not that you're asking those questions because you're trying to snub your nose at the medical professional, you're you're you know, you you don't trust them or whatever.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_04: Because uh you know, these medical professionals, especially MDs and such, the specialists, they go to school for a long time.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_04: And you would hope you would hope that they're learning some good stuff, some stuff that will help us.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_04: Because we're dependent upon them to to help us live this life to the best of our ability.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_04: What were the hardest parts of the autism diagnosis that no one warns you about?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Really the lack of sleep was the first one.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea that like sleep was something that you know it's it's hard and it there's no guarantee that it'll get better.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first piece.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think um the other one is like just going out in public and like the preparation you have to do as a parent to make sure there's not a meltdown, controlling the environment around her as much as we can, right?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: I can't control everything.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: I can't control if there's gonna be loud sounds sometimes where we go.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I can't control what other people are gonna be doing around her, right?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: If they have something she wants and you she can't have it.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then just the again, the complexity, like no one no one warns you about that.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I would also say the financial impact, it's expensive.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Insurance doesn't really cover a lot for autism.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it covers like ABA therapy, but for a lot of the other treatments, because it there's really not like a one size fits all thing that helps every kid on the spectrum for the most part.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, insurance doesn't doesn't cover it.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then for a lot of the just natural things like grounding was something we saw a lot of benefits from.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, it's not expensive either, but I mean uh the grounding, like you know, insurance just doesn't cover anything like that.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's all out of pocket.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: So what actually worked for your family when nothing else seemed to grounding was the first thing, and that that was really the first reason I wanted to write a book.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the concept that the earth has natural energy in it and you know walking around barefoot can help you.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it sounded crazy the first time I heard about it.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: You said grounding?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Grounding.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's also called earthing too.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: But you can also buy like earthing or grounding mats on Amazon.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: They're they're not expensive.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: And my wife brought it up to me and I was like, this sounds crazy.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's no way it's real.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds fake.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: I ended up reading a book on it because I was I was at least intrigued by it.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um because I think one thing I thought about it was like, oh, when I was younger and I walked around barefoot, like I always felt good.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um but um read a book, I was like, okay, this sounds legit.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: I want to at least try it with our daughter.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I bought a grounding mat on Amazon.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's like fifty bucks, threw it on her, you know, it's a grounding mattress pad cover, you put it on their bed, and I was blown away.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: The first night we put it on her bed, she slept six hours straight and continued to sleep six hours straight.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Never like, yeah, like it it didn't fix all the sleep issues.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: She still wasn't falling asleep on her own easily, but um we we consistently would get six hours or more of sleep every night since then, and it's been a couple years now.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: So like that was a big win, and I wish someone would have told me about it right away.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: So that was the first reason I'm like, I gotta write this.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and if if she's sleeping, you're sleeping.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_04: Totally.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_04: And mom is sleeping.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember when I we had four kids, and I remember, you know, when you first when they when they're babies and such, boy, you can just forget sleep.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_04: Sleep's just uh a luxury that's not available at that time.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_04: Especially when they're teething and all of that.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_04: Collic, teething, screaming babies all night.
• 32:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_04: And you think we would learn.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_04: After the first baby, you think we would learn, right?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_04: So how did supporting your autistic child end up helping you with your other kids?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think it it's helped in a couple different ways.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: So one is it's helped me be a better parent to them and a better teacher to them of um, you know, people are different, how to interact with everybody, you know, how to help others.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know, having a sibling for them that is on the spectrum, like they've definitely become more caring, not just for their their sister, but for other people.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's also just made me slow down a lot, honestly, and start to really make sure I spend quality time with them as well.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because as you can imagine, a lot of our time and resources go to her just because she needs a lot more.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really made me be a lot more intentional about carving out time to spend, you know, one-on-one or two on one with with them at a time and finding ways to just give them attention.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: One of the other things I think we did that that's worked really well is uh if we're going somewhere for therapy for her, is like incorporating something for them along with it.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, they get to do something they want to do and have fun.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and honestly, we're going to we you know we go to places that we wouldn't have gone to as frequently.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: So like New York City, a couple other places where we'll we'll plan a trip around it.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: We're obviously going mainly because of her therapy, but you know, we we try to turn it into as much of a fun family event as we can.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_04: What did this journey teach you about parenting that you didn't know before?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: That you'll never figure it all out.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first thing because I think when I was, you know, when she was born, I was like, I'm gonna nail this dad thing now.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: I've had seven, like we've learned all my mistakes and I'm ready to do it.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: The other really, like I think the one thing that I I maybe knew a part of but didn't fully understand is like no one's coming to save your kid.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: You as a parent know what's best for your child, and you have to always be an advocate for your child, whether it's with the school, doctors, anybody, you have to ask important questions and really understand, you know, what what's their desired outcome they're trying to get or or what is their goal and make sure it aligns with you your your goal as a parent.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: And if it doesn't, you need to speak up and explain why it doesn't align with what what your goals are.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_04: Why did you decide to write autism sucks, finding hope in the chaos?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: Initially it was really like, hey, we did these things.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I mentioned the grounding earlier, but there were a few other things we did, like CBD oil that had a major impact immediately.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: Removing screens also had a huge impact.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, okay, let me put together all the things that I wish I knew when we first got the diagnosis.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: And like, could this help one parent, right?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm I'm not making, I don't have a grounding pad business, I don't have a CBD oil business.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the book you can buy, but it's also free on Kindle as well.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: So you don't even have to buy it right now.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: You can download it for free.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what are things I can just share to help?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like I wanted to help one parent.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: If I figured if I help one parent, I'm good.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: But as I was writing it, I also started to realize like, wow, there's so many good things that came out of this.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: I should probably add that to the book because parents who are maybe struggling or feel like they're at their lowest point, like I want them to see that there are good things that have come out of this.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it was really those two reasons.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: One, let me help as many as I can with just what worked for us.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then also maybe just give some encouragement to parents that are going through the worst of it right now.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_04: That's awesome.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_04: What would you tell a parent who just received an autism diagnosis today?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: I would want to be very encouraging because I think they're going to hear enough negative stuff from others.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, the first thing is like, hey, there are good things that are going to come out of this.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: It might not be immediately, but you need to remember that.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing is I I would encourage them to really write down your small wins and make a big deal about it.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: Start appreciating small things because you're you're you're not gonna see like the big wins every day.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna see them every month.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: So you really need to start learning to just appreciate the small things you see.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing I would I would tell them is look into grounding immediately.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like we saw immediate impacts from that.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to tell them to read my book, but even if they didn't want to read it, I I would list out you know, grounding trying to limit screens.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: We took it away completely because it was causing meltdowns, and that helped.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, CBD oil had a major impact for us.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: I would I would recommend that.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then you know, using a sauna also helped us.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: I would also say change your diet.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that would be the other big thing I would say right away.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and do it incrementally.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, don't try to do it at once.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's hard enough changing incrementally, but you know, figure out ways to start changing it over time.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_04: So you talk about small wins and big wins.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_04: Can you kind of define that for me?
• 37:17
  unknown: Yeah.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: For us.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: So like I would say for me, the two big wins with my daughter are her speaking consistently and communicating what she wants and needs and being potty trained.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: She's six, she still isn't there yet.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, so you know, if I was uh if those were the only two measures of success for me right now, like I would be pretty unhappy.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been things like her putting on her shoes, small win, right?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um getting herself undressed for bathtime, small win, um, sitting with us at the table the whole time we eat dinner, because she used to run out of the room all the time.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, small win.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, those could you could argue are bigger wins in in some cases, but to me though those are you know small wins.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Her being able to walk around the block with me without wanting to be carried, small wins.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: So just a lot of things like that that you know are not, you know, it's not gonna suddenly make her not have autism or or even you know allow her to function on her own without me or my wife being around her, but still, you know, still things I want to celebrate that, you know, and I always I also put in the lens of like, would I have made a big deal about it with my other kids?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that that honestly I wouldn't have, right?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: But still kind of like, so I look at it as like it would be a small win for them, so it's really a small win for her, too.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_04: So are are there support groups available for y'all to uh get involved with that'll that help?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: There are.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's just hard because everyone on the spectrum is different.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: So there's so many kids now being diagnosed with autism and they're just all very different.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: But we've tended to like find specialists that we like and trust and work with them.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I know my wife has met a lot of other moms through that, um, which is great because a lot of them are on the same journey we're on.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's definitely groups out there, just it's harder to finding that right group, I think, just because again, every every child is so different.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, meeting other parents through you know the specialists you're working with has been honestly great, great for us.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure it is.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_04: If listeners remember just one takeaway from today's conversation, what would you want it to be?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: I would say if you know, as a parent, you know what's best for your kid and you really need to own kind of everything that happens to them or is being given to them, and uh just to ask a lot of questions and make sure you're comfortable with whatever you know either you're doing for your child or or a specialist doctor teacher is recommending for your child because again, you're the parent and and no one's coming to save your child except except for you because you you care about your kid more than anybody else.
• 39:53
  unknown: Right.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_04: And you're always going to be the best advocate for them.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: So where can listeners connect with you and learn more about your work?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: The book is available on Amazon.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: Is the Kindle version is free um right now because of Autism Awareness Month.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's a paperback version on there as well.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: The best place is on Instagram.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's at Paul, and then the letter V and then the number 055.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: So spelling out Paul Voss, just there's another Paul Voss, I guess, on Instagram.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I uh I use the numbers to spell it out.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'll put that in the show notes.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_04: Paul, thank you for sharing your wisdom and heart with us today.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_04: Our listeners, thank you for tuning in to ABC's A Parenting Adult Children podcast.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for the privilege of your time.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_04: Don't forget to subscribe, share this episode, and join us next time.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_04: You can also go to our website at parentingadultchildren.org.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks a lot, Paul, for being here, and to the listening audience, I'll say have a good night, and we'll see you next time.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Please tune in next week for another episode of our podcast on parenting adult children.