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Transcript

Courage & Connection After Divorce - Finding Joy Beyond Your Comfort Zone · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, a podcast covering all things relationships, separation, and divorce.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: How to create healthy, happy, fulfilling relationships without sacrificing any part of yourself.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: Supporting anyone feeling challenged in their relationship or marriage.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: These are confidential conversations for you if you're navigating separation, divorce, or reorganising life afterwards.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: Decide whether to stay or leave a relationship or marriage, divorce with less drama, and consciously choose what's next for you.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the War and Tree people of the Coolin Nation, and pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: I acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to this week's episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: And today I'm going to talk about something I know shapes you and transforms your post-divorce life more than any of the legal documents or the co-parenting plans ever can, and that is courage.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: The courage, particularly, to step into new spaces and what waits for you there or what awaits you there.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is actually inspired by a moment, an experience I had last year, and it was really one of those goosebumps kind of heart-expanding moments that reminds you just how much possibility still exists in your life, even after, right?
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Even after heartbreak, even after separation, even after divorce, wherever you are, there's still so much possibility.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: So today I want to talk about courage, connection, and how joy can find you, or you can create your own joy when you step into the unfamiliar.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Part of my work with clients as well as my own personal healing work and commitment to growth is about finding and consciously creating joy, choosing things, choosing people, places, experience, experiences that bring joy.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: And so back in January of 2025, I drove into a car park to then walk into a rehearsal space completely alone.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know anybody, and to be honest, I really wasn't sure what I was getting myself into.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: It was one of those things where it pops up on your screen on your phone.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: You think, great idea, I'm gonna sign up for this, and then as it gets closer, you think, What have I got myself into?
2:47
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I can quit, maybe I can pull out.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: So it took courage to actually walk into that space, but I'd made a decision, a really conscious choice to do things that were outside of my comfort zone for that year, and actually the year before that, too, after a breakup of a long-term relationship.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: It was also a conscious decision to do things that sparked joy, and so I had made a list of things I wanted to try, or of things I used to do that sparked joy, and I realised that singing, not just in the car or in the shower, or while I potted around at home, but with others, singing in community was one of those things that I'd done way back.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'd last sung in a group or on a stage, apart from the very odd karaoke stint, when I was at uni, so a really long time ago, and I'd always loved it.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: And I just had a feeling that stepping outside my comfort zone and following those breadcrumbs from that pop-up on my phone and that sign up on a whim, that stepping outside my comfort zone and following those breadcrumbs might actually lead to something pretty beautiful, and it did.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: And it was not just the music, it was not just the performance, but it was the connection because courage does that, right?
4:13
SPEAKER_00: Courage opens the door to connection, courage opens us up to new experiences, yes, and that leads to new connections.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: So every week I showed up, we showed up side by side at rehearsal, and something started to happen, right?
4:31
SPEAKER_00: We laughed, of course, we were singing, we were making mistakes, we were looking toward one another to sort of support us through our fumbling mistakes.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: We laughed, we shared stories, and we began then sharing a little bit more, sharing snippets of our lives outside of that choir space.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: And we created something together.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: And I was reminded in the most embodied way that joy isn't just passive, it asks something of us, right?
5:00
SPEAKER_00: It it requires sometimes, probably always, it requires participation, it requires presence to be experienced, to be felt, to be lived.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: I suppose joy requires your presence, it needs your willingness to take a step, even when you're not certain where that step will take you eventually or what it might open you up to.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And courage looks different when you're going through or coming out of divorce, right?
5:32
SPEAKER_00: It isn't always in those spaces or seasons of life, bold and big and loud or dramatic.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: It can be, but really often it's quiet.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: It's choosing yourself in moments when you've spent years choosing everyone else.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: It's daring to stand up, say no, advocate for yourself when perhaps you haven't done that before or haven't done it for a really long time.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: It's about willingness to say no thank you, set boundaries and hold them, whether that's with your ex-partner, your soon-to-be ex-partner, or other people who are commenting and and making noises about your situation, your separation, divorce.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: It really is about quietly tapping into who you are now, who you're becoming, and what you want and need, and really honouring that, right?
6:32
SPEAKER_00: Often it's that quiet courage.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: Divorce and reorganizing our life afterwards demands our courage.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, things that used to be really simple can become a little harder, a little more complicated, and so many decisions feel massive, loaded, and require a leap of faith, a little bit of courage.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: But after divorce, courage can look a little different, right?
6:58
SPEAKER_00: It might look like just walking into a social event by yourself for the first time in years, in a really long time.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: It might look like booking a class or a workshop, even if you're not sure, even if you're not sure what you're gonna find, who you're gonna find, whether you'll belong there, whether you'll like it.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: It might look like saying yes to something that scares you just a little bit, but might open you up, right?
7:27
SPEAKER_00: Might expand you a whole lot.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Courage after divorce might look like making a new connection, making a new friend, starting a new ritual, right?
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Letting go of some old ritual that used to be embedded in your couple relationship or your family as an entire unit, and now it needs to shift and change.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: So courage might look like letting go of that old ritual and starting a new one.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: Courage might look like even the simplicity of daring to dream again, letting yourself imagine a future that feels good again.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Courage after divorce is often invisible.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: Nobody sees that internal shift the moment you say to yourself, I can do this, whatever this is.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: Or when you realize you're ready, you want more than just surviving.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, I want to feel alive again, I want to live again, I want to get out of this fight, flight, freeze mode and really live.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: And making that conscious decision, making that conscious realization, even, is courageous.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: The courage to begin again, begin all over, to take a chance, to try something different, try something new, to dare to dream and to choose something that's outside of or beyond the limits that you once believed were yours, outside of what's expected of you, outside of the script that was handed to you, outside or beyond what feels familiar, you know, the quiet compromises you've made, the life you've grown used to and accepted as yours.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: That is often the most powerful kind of courage, but it's not always loud and it's not always visible to anyone else.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we don't even recognize it as courage in ourselves.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: Courage during or after a breakup, a divorce means whether you like it or not, whether you chose it or not, you are rebuilding.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: You're rebuilding a life, you're rebuilding a new version of your family, you're rebuilding yourself, you're rebuilding your hopes and dreams, and this time you're not starting from zero, you're not starting from nothing, but from experience, from wisdom, from a deeper knowing of who you are, even if that feels a little hard to grasp right now.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: That knowledge, that inner knowing of you, of yourself is coming.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: You're rebuilding from a deeper knowing of what you want and what you don't want, right?
10:06
SPEAKER_00: And what you will never settle for, accept, or tolerate again.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: You know what your values are, you know how to honour your worth, and if you don't know, you're starting to rebuild that, and that takes courage.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: And I want to tell you from experience, yes, my own, but also that of so many of my clients.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: Courage opens us up, expands us, and also invites connection.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Every single time, every single time we do something courageous, it opens us, stretches us, expands us, and that opens up and invites connection, right?
10:48
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes a breakup, divorce, separation leaves you lonely, even if you're surrounded by people because it shifts and changes you, your identity shifts, the roles you've played and the spaces you've filled shift.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Your rhythms and your routines shift, the rhythm of your days shift.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes your friendships shift.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, friendships evolve, circles contract, grow quiet.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: Friendships often are part of the shift of separation and divorce.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: So your sense of who your people are can shift.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: Your sense of belonging, you know, who feels like home, who feels safe, that shifts too.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: And in that shifting, there's an invitation.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: You're invited to choose again because your whole world feels like it's arranging or rearranging itself.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: And in many ways it is, right?
11:46
SPEAKER_00: And here's where you have choice.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: You have choice to isolate, to retreat.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: And for some, you might need to do that at least for a little while.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Go quiet, go inward, isolate, retreat, or your other choice is to reach.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: This transition is really tender, but it is where you get to choose again.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Who you let in, who you connect with, who you become, and who and what you reach toward.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: And in the space where things do fall away, there's room.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Space.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: There's room for new conversations, new connections, new experiences, new ways of looking at and moving through the world and new belonging.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: If you're willing and brave enough to step toward it, if you're brave enough to reach and step towards it.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: And that's why connection matters.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: That's why reclaiming, rearranging, redesigning your connections really matters here.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: Connection with like-minded people reminds us that we're not alone.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Connection mirrors back your worthiness.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: Connection helps rebuild confidence.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: And connection can soften grief.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: And even if you choose a separation, divorce, there's still grief, right?
13:16
SPEAKER_00: So connection with other humans can help soften that grief.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: And connection helps you understand and feel emotionally safe again.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: And it makes you see what's possible.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: That free, joyful, expansive life that's waiting for you out there on the other side of all the hard stuff.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: And here's something that here's a truth.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Something I know from guiding so many through it.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: That and it feels a little bit unfair, right?
13:52
SPEAKER_00: That you often meet your people after divorce, not before.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: You often find connection with people through the process and afterwards.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: You will deepen the connection with existing people, yes, but you will often, oh I find, there is often new connection made.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: Because now you're really choosing for you, just for you, right?
14:20
SPEAKER_00: You're not choosing out of obligation.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Your choices are coming from what's real for you, from what genuinely is important and to and interests you.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Not who you were as part of a couple, just you.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: So you're making connection from self-awareness, from a place of deep self-knowing, not from coupledom, not from quiet or even subconscious compromise, right?
14:51
SPEAKER_00: You're not accommodating someone else in all the ways.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: You're choosing from your own interests, your own values, your own knowing, your own desires and dreams and joys.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: You are choosing what brings you joy, not just you.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: And the people that you meet there, they fit the person you're becoming, not necessarily the version of you that existed inside your relationship or your marriage.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: And that's why sometimes friendships shift, change, get left behind, because a version of you gets left behind when you move out of relationship through separation, navigate divorce.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: The people you meet in these new spaces are often really deeply aligned with who you're becoming, not who you were in a past version of your life.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: And when you're in the messy hard parts of your divorce, the negotiations, the early days of reorganizing life and family, the idea of joy can feel almost impossible.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: Everything is unfamiliar, everything is heavy, everything is loaded and layered, and it's all you can do sometimes to just get through the day.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: Make the next decision, tick the next thing off the never-ending to-do list, ease your way somehow through the overwhelm.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: But there comes a moment when you are ready, when you're ready to notice and you're ready to allow yourself a little lightness, even in the middle of the mess and the chaos.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: It's about remembering that your life, yep, maybe even right now, even in the middle of upheaval, can still hold moments that feel good, moments that feel alive, moments that remind you of who you are beyond the loss, the conflict, the grief, the overwhelm.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: And that's a reclamation.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: Choosing joy, choosing to let joy become a conscious part of your day is a really radical act of choosing yourself.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: It's courageous, it's a bit rebellious.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: It's about believing your life still holds beauty, potential.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: It's about refusing to let the heartbreak, the overwhelm, the pain, the grief, the loss, the conflict to define you, to define your life or your emotional landscape.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: And while courage isn't always loud and overt, joy also doesn't have to be grand.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't have to be a grand gesture.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: It can be really simple.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, a barefoot walk on the beach or in your backyard, sitting on the grass with a cup of coffee or tea.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: It might be a meditation on your couch while your kids play or watch TV.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: It might be putting on some music, cranking it up, and dancing in your kitchen or your lounge room.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: It might be a catch-up with your favorite people.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: It might be signing up to a class that you join all by yourself.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: It might be a choir that you take a chance on.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: But there's also a deeper kind of joy.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: That kind you find in the things that nudge you outside of your comfort zone.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: Just enough to stretch you, not to add to the overwhelm, not to overwhelm you, but just enough to stretch you.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Because on the other side of that stretch is possibility, there's novelty, there's new, there's newness, there's connection, and there's your people.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: So in that stretch, there are people who really get you.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: There are people who love the same thing you love.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: There are people you meet in doing the thing together, and that thing is a connector.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: Those people who share your love of this thing you're doing together.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: And when you step into that space on the other side of the stretch, you don't just find community, ultimately, you find another version of yourself, or a deeper layer of yourself, or a more joyful version of yourself.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: And for a moment, I really want to speak directly here to the single parents listening, especially for those caring for kids a lot or all of the time.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: I know it's hard.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: I know it's harder.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: I know your capacity is stretched.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: And yes, I speak from the privilege of having young adults now.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: But when they were younger, I was stretched.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: And for long periods of time or long periods at a time, while their dad was FIFO, I still sought joy just in smaller pockets.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes those pockets involved my kids.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: In fact, we were talking about it just over the weekend, some of the really silly things we did, just the three of us, to create fun, laughter, joy, play.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: And some of that was because my kids needed it, some of that was because I really need it.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: So you might find it in in ways that actually include your kids rather than it being just about you.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: But build it in to your days, into your lives.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: You don't need necessarily a weekend away or a whole day or even a few hours, right?
20:16
SPEAKER_00: You need pockets, moments.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: You might take a 10-minute walk or a 10-minute dance, right?
20:23
SPEAKER_00: It might be a quick journal session or a coffee with someone who really gets it, who really gets you a small thing that feels like yours.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Courage doesn't require always those big leaps, and joy can come in the small little pockets of time that you can snatch between school drop off, pick up, work, all the things.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: Most of the time, it only requires those tiny, tiny moments, but regularly done on repeat.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: So here's what I really want you to reflect on today.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: Where can you be courageous?
21:03
SPEAKER_00: Even just a little bit more, and where will you seek or consciously create joy?
21:10
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's not for you in a big overwhelming way, but maybe it is in a way that feels like you reclaiming yourself, just a little bit of you, just a little pocket of joy that you can create for yourself or lean into or hold for yourself.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe think of one place, one person, one experience you've been a tiny bit curious about.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: One thing you might like to try, that's your invitation, that's your next step.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: Because the life you're meant for, the life you most want to create for yourself, won't unfold magically if you just stay where you are.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: And joy, that true expansive and sometimes unexpected joy is actually waiting for you in places that you haven't discovered or stepped into yet.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Thank you as always for being here with me today.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: If you're navigating divorce, separation, or rebuilding afterwards and you want support or strategy, you can always connect with me via the links in the show notes.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: If you want to be the first to know what's happening here at Reflect for 2026 and how I can support you to reclaim your joy after divorce, even during divorce, make sure you're on my mailing list, email list.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's not spammy.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm really irregular, I'm pretty rubbish at it, but there'll be a few things coming out soon.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: And if you want to be the first to know about those, make sure you're on that mailing list.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Again, there's a link in the show notes that you can click to join that mailing list.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: And finally, remember courage creates connection, and connection can lead to joy.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: The courage to step into something different from what you're currently living, something outside your comfort zone, even just a little bit, is the key.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: It opens the door to the life you get to build afterwards, a life shaped by choice, courage, connection, and filled with consciously chosen and created joy.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: If you know somebody who would benefit from listening to this, please, please share it with them.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: And if you would, I would love it if you would rate, review, comment, all the things on the podcast.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: It means we can get it into the ears of a whole lot more people who need to hear it.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: Go gently, go courageously, seek joy.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: Bye for now.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, divorce coach and strategist, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love or benefit from listening to this episode, please share it with them.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you would follow and review the podcast so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more people just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next week for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: Until then