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Life’s ups and downs with OCD (OCD)(Episode 13) · Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast

• Marc & Stacee: Hi there, I'm Stacey and along with my husband Mark, we want to thank you for living uncertain with us. We are on episode 13 and today we are talking about finding peace and a new norm amongst a diagnosis of OCD. Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. Marc & Stacee: Welcome to tonight's episode, everyone. Welcome. So one of the things that I want to talk about, hopefully you hear more from me tonight than Stacey. When you're like when when you're like as a spouse, when your life becomes more calm, which right now for us, I feel like we're in a more calm state. Opening: and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, Marc & Stacee: If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form. because certain pieces are starting to fall into place. ⁓ Our son's about ready to graduate hopefully next week. Which has been a stressor for you and I for quite some time and more me probably than you. ⁓ So that feels good and now it's into all the banquet stuff for him and so that's starting to fall into place. My work is falling into place, your work is coming to the close for the school year and Opening: I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc & Stacee: You know, so all of those different things start to ease out and less stress. And for me, I'm always kind of anticipating what could be the next stressor to bring up some of that OCD tendencies, because right now, you know, this past week, I don't think you really had any. No, I don't think I had any episodes where I felt like. my OCD was taking over or that my OCD was heightening in any way. I think it's an interesting idea that now that we're out of the intensive treatment of it all and it is no longer the focus of our household, it's no longer the center of what we operate around. Now we're finding other ways to manage my OCD and finding ways to get that ERP in there as well because we're finding this new chapter, we're finding a new normal. A balance. We are, yeah. So one of the things last week, during our bi-weekly now therapy sessions, ⁓ I went in by myself for a chunk of time, which I know you were like, what the heck is going on? you even said to me on the car ride home, She was my therapist first. I did. You know, and you've commandeered her. Nearly in jest because our therapist has become incredibly important to our whole family and such ⁓ a dear part of our weekly monthly life now that we come to ⁓ enjoy as part of our continued growth and healing, cetera. So I say this in jest. But of course, having OCD, one of the things that I need or feel like I need is control and certainty. And that's where I like to keep everything in little boxes. And so if I'm unsure or not certain of something that's going on, I'm certainly feeling my anxiety is heightened. My tendency is to want to engage in compulsions, especially mental compulsions. starts to ramp up a little bit because I don't know necessarily what's going on. And so to have you and she speaking and I wasn't present for that was different. Yeah. Because it was the first time. Yeah. Yeah. That, you know, as a family, our kids were going first and then I got pulled in at the end and you weren't. Which, you know, I think unintentionally caused a little bit of ERP. It did. In that situation. did. And those are the situations that I need to kind of bring me back into the ERP world to remember and remind myself to look down at my forearm and read what I have permanently tattooed there, which is live uncertain. And even in that evening, prior to, you know, our daughter went to the bathroom, which was outside down the hallway and stuff, which brought a little angst. You did? Into your world, to where you then, you know, like, she's taking so long. What's happening? You know, is she okay? These are those moments where I would check with you for the amount of time she was away from us. Do you think she's okay? Is she all right? What do think she's doing? Is she okay? Are you sure she's okay? And I would come up with a myriad, if you will, of ways to ask you the same thing to come to expect a response. Which I didn't. No. But then, you pick up your phone to potentially look at, you know, like 360. it would do is just show you a big bubble where all of us were at. Yes, I'm aware. So it wouldn't have done you any it felt like in the moment that it was going to do something for me. But that was one of those checks that you could do to help, know, instead of letting your anxiety go up. Right. You know, so those like when I went into, you know, the session with our therapist, you that was one of the things that I brought up and we, you know, we kind of talked about different ways that we can expose you. Yes. And this is where that trust piece comes into play. Oh, very much so. Because, you know, we, because you have, you're not in that heightened state really anymore. Like you have been because you've been through the intensives, you're on medication, know, life is Right now, settling. know, things are starting to come in line for us a little bit more. And so there's not that many more experiences. So, you know, her and I had conversations about different experiences that we potentially could do down the road, you know, and that's something that her and I are going to have to do, you know, and she's probably going to be sitting there going, ⁓ my goodness, you know. I'm telling you all this stuff, but I haven't told you anything, which you're the type of person that does not like surprises. No. And I think a lot of people that have OCD. would be really interested in that stat, if you will. How many people living with OCD have an aversion to surprises? I would really love that because that's something I knew early on in my life that I did not like that. And so I'd be very interested. I mean, even when it comes around to birthdays and Christmas and stuff, have to know the presents before you even open them up. it's like a compulsion thing. becomes a... There are occasions it becomes kind of an issue. And it has. And your birthday is coming up in a couple of months and we get to do a little bit of ERP with that. Oh, man. You know, and then after that Christmas will come around and there's some more ERP with that side of it. we have to come up and manufacture different ways for you to. test out your ERP. My resilience to it and my endurance. But in a safe way too. With it, Of course. That's one of that we talk about all the time is in a safe way. I know what I feel like I know what your limit is. You do. Yeah, so, know, I know what we're going to do next. I know that you'll be in a safe place to be able to do it. Absolutely. And this this is might be a good time to kind of insert this little aside thought that I've been thinking about as we've recorded several of these episodes before, which is we've talked on and off about trust and how our journey with the intensive ERP and what it meant for us to do it together. He, as my spouse, really being there every time, helping me at home. making sure that I was being held accountable, et cetera, et I think it's important to note, and especially because OCD can be so nuanced and because it can be so specialized in people who really understand what that means. And so finding the right therapist becomes so instrumental in this whole process. And that's hard to do. is, it is. And I feel like I got really lucky because I met our therapist prior to my diagnosis. She's the one that guided me on this process. She's the one that's been there for us through the darkest phase of it all into now this lightest phase of it all. And it really has established a modicum for me that I can trust her and my children can trust her and Mark can trust her. And we just got very lucky in that sense that we found someone who was well versed in OCD, who knew me, who knew my family, who knew that Mark was willing to commit to the exhaustion of it all with me, and who wanted to take that approach. And it was a very unique approach to take. And she was right there with us the whole time and still continues to be to this day right here with us the whole time doing it the way that we've chosen to do it. been incredibly instrumental in that for us. And so to find that therapist that you are going to A, connect with, B, you're going to trust, and C, you know has the experience, the education, the know-how as to how nuanced OCD can really truly be, that is a gift. And that is something that is so important in the process. And it may not be the first therapist. It may not be the second. But once you find that person, that's where what Mark is saying really rings true is I trust her implicitly at this point, and I certainly trust Mark implicitly at this point with my journey, knowing that I can put my trust in them and they aren't going to let me fall. That this is all to help. And ⁓ it's taken me a while to get there too, but I am. I joke now more about. ⁓ I want to know. have to know all the things I have to, you you have to tell me and ⁓ my gosh, the ERP. But in all honesty, even though it's hard, I really welcome the ERP. I want it now because I know how helpful it is. Because I know in the past with this kind of conversation and you knowing that there's potential surprising ERP moments coming down the road. You would hound me every day. Well, what is it? What is it? What is it? And it's like, you know, it's like that, you know, the river down the Grand Canyon eroding away at the rocks. You know, that's what you would do to me sometimes. It's like, what an analogy. Wow. I think, my goodness. You know, I just want to give it up and just tell you what it is. And that's what you would do with Christmas and birthdays and stuff. It's just like you asked me so many times. It's like, I'm done. Just here. Know it. Okay. And move on. And now, I know that we can go a month, two months, three months before that exposure might happen. Sure. And you'd be like, ⁓ okay. I'm hoping you'll drop it kind of as we leave. like I actually already have. Yeah. And that's the awareness piece too, is that my life prior to the diagnosis, but I still had all these symptoms of it and knew that something was there versus now that I know what it is and how to manage it. The awareness piece allows me that moment, even if it's just a moment to say, ⁓ that's your OCD, we're not going to go down that road, we're going to take that different path. then I can kind of veer myself in that direction. And this example is a really good one for that. Like, you're right, I would just try to get it out of you no matter how I could. I would check in, I would ask for reassurance, would, it's gonna be okay, right? I mean, it's not gonna be anything bad. Tell me it's not anything bad. Like, it's not bad, right? Like, those are the kinds of things I would do. And now I don't feel the need to do that. And if I do feel the need to do that, I know it's my OCD coming out and I wanna stop it in its tracks. And if you don't, I know how to stop it on my side. And there you go. And that's how we do it. Because I'm really not sure. Ugh, I hate that phrase, no. Ugh. I'm going to get that tattooed. Right. I'm not sure. I don't know. That's awesome. We'll do that with the palm of my hand. go. So anytime I... I'll just show you my hand. There you go. I'm not sure. But just that little phrase allows me the chance to break the cycle of compulsions. And then we get to live this, what we just mentioned before, which is this new norm, which means... Our life doesn't center around ERP anymore, but that doesn't mean that my OCD has gone away. It doesn't mean that Mark's heightened awareness of when the next shoe might drop is gone. It doesn't mean that I shouldn't activate my brain with ERP opportunities so that I can keep growing and healing. And I, you know, as we sit here and kind of talk about this, you know, today, I... I start to reflect on different times in our life. And in the past, prior to your ERP, even when it was calm in our lives, you would fabricate potential events, potential happenings. Wow. Yeah, you're right. Because calm is never good enough. Right. And it's not like you were looking for drama, but you were kind of looking for the next shoe to drop. Yeah, that's a good way to... And you were constantly looking for that next thing There was always a what if. There was always a what if this, what if that. And something new would crop up every day that would get into my head and force the looping of the what if. And sometimes I think you would... force those loops so much that you would actually almost even force the situation to happen. You know, and that's that's heavy. Y'all, that's heavy to hear that. And I could probably see that. And that's why, like now on this side of it. Now that things are starting to calm down in our life, even though next week is going to be a very busy week for us, you know, I've got, you know, three graduations I've got to do for work and plus our own son's graduation. And you're wrapping up your first end of the year school year in. 20 years almost. Yeah. Yeah. 18 years from the school setting. You know, wrapping that up and anticipating what summertime can be for you. know, I in years past, you would have probably manufactured something, especially like next week. You know, the of miles actually graduating and then what? I think you would probably created something like, well, what's going to happen that night after graduation and he's going to want to go out and we can't let him do that and do all those things. Good gracious. Let's not do that on air right now. If I say that it might happen, it won't happen. But I have for our son's sake, I have felt like you're right. Like that again, that is heavy to hear because not only was I always just looking for the next thing to be a worry because I was just so used to always having something in my brain that wouldn't shut off. I would probably be so wrapped up in it that I would force the issue and. something negative would happen or, or a lot of times, you know, fear, OCD is a lot of fear based too. And a lot of fears would get in my way. And I would, you know, well, I can't do this. That would just be flat out. I can't do that. I don't operate on that level as much anymore. The I can't isn't a part of my vernacular anymore, my vocabulary anymore. ⁓ I try to say different things to myself. And so that way I can pushed forward and even doing that has been ERP for me. Even to say, I would usually say, I can't do this, that's too much, that's too hard, I can't do that, ⁓ my goodness. And now I think, no, my OCD is telling you that, but what Stacey wants to say is different. And so I tried to reframe that. That's been a little personal goal of my own and a little way of giving myself a little I don't know. I don't know if it's ERP in that regard or what it is, but I am keeping myself accountable in that way. Well, your mental muscle is still fairly strong. Yes. You're continuing to work it out. you're feeling strong when you do those type of Not to mention that I feel like there's a whole lot of space that has opened up in my brain that can now allow me to think rationally about things? They can help push me outside of my box. And know you're going to be safe. And know I'm going to be OK. Or at least if I'm not going to be safe. I can't guarantee it. I can't control it. I can't. I have to have some acceptance of. The things that I have. To be uncertain about. Which, you know, last night we were out for a walk around the block. ⁓ my gosh. This is, you know, this is how... This is as raw and authentic as you're ever going to get an OCD journey, I'll tell you. Go These are some of those things that we were working with that we forget about. Yeah. You know, so one of the things that that Stacey would have a hard time with when we were walking is anytime a car would drive by. it would freak her out. Not to the point to where I would necessarily recognize that it freaked her out or anything like that, but in her mind, she was constantly freaked out when a car drove by. Which then caused me to check. So I would look behind me or forward, depending on which direction the car was going, until I could no longer. I would watch it, I would keep looking behind me checking until I could no longer see it. And those are things because what were you what were you anticipating something that would happen? And this this goes right back to your original. So one of my biggest original fears, which I've done a lot of extensive work with, is death and my fear around death, specifically my own. And so I would have this intrusive thought that every time and this is only at night. Every time a car would pass us, they perhaps had a gun or some sort of weapon and they would kill us. And that was the interest of thought. And when she says, means her. It was about her. it was nicer than to say us. It is about us. Come on. I would be... It would be horrible if something happened to you too, babe. would never want No, no, I know that. But... But it would... I would have these intrusive thoughts of... They would have a weapon. They would shoot me or kill us or something would happen. And so in order to keep that from happening, because that anxiety was creeping up and I couldn't... I couldn't stop the anxiety and I couldn't stop the looping... thought, except that I could watch it, check on it, make sure that it left our line of vision. And then as soon as it did, okay, I'm okay. And then maybe two minutes later, we're still on our walk and here comes another car. And I feel the panic rising and I feel that intrusive thought coming on again. And then in order to make it go away, I'm watching the car, I'm watching it, I'm checking behind me, checking behind me, making sure that I can't see it anymore. I don't do that. last night. So last night was kind of funny. Well, and so one of the things that in order to get her to walk at night that we had to do, was, you know, I had to buy some really bright flashlights that brought some comfort to her. That that we had to walk with flashlights at night. Now we're walking our puppy now, you know, he's. 10 months old, a little Australian Shepherd. shouldn't say little, he's about 50 pounds, he's a ball of energy. And he'll bark at anything and go after anything because he wants to do that, you know, right now. And so there's protection built in with the dog. That too, yes. So, you know, and we used to have a German Shepherd and we would walk the German Shepherd at night, but that wasn't enough. So I, you know, bought these flashlights and we would use them. and sense the ERP and you had to work on the cars driving by. That was part of your ERP that you had the anxiety rise and come down without doing the compulsion of checking or following it until it wasn't in our sight anymore. Yeah. I had to be very structured about it at first. But last night. But last night we were walking and a vehicle came by us and turned the corner. And it was something that I had forgotten that she had to do, which was check. And it's something that she had shared with me that, you know, in the past that, ⁓ that's, you know, freaks me out when a car drives by and, you know, and last night I'm like, did that bother you? that the car drove by and... And what did I say? You said no. I said no, it didn't bother me. But then I said, I said, and I just told myself, wow, you didn't even have to look back at that car. So I don't know, that's progress, but we'll see. I had to actually think. you didn't freak out about it. I think it was more like, oh, I didn't freak out about it. Well, that was really cool that I didn't do that. Now we're back to having to carry flashlights, but that's only because we saw a snake last night. know, and it so. Again, yeah, Arizona desert. Yeah, you find creatures. Everywhere you go and the coyotes that run, you know up and down our neighborhood, you know and it's more just for that that we're gonna be carrying the flashlights again not about your fear of a car driving by and Right now our life is in that calm zone. Mm-hmm And you didn't have to manufacture something Such as that. No, I don't feel like I Don't feel like that's a part of me anymore. I feel like I've I've let go of a lot of those tendencies. You can check that one off. You check that box, I'm done with that one. Yeah. Or even, yes, or the idea that... anticipating that there's another worry that's going to come up and not being able to just enjoy what's happening or stay present in the moment. Like there were so many ways that I would block myself from doing that. And I do feel like that's one of the biggest ways that I've made progress is that I don't feel that anymore. We'll see. ⁓ boy. Well, at least I have our listeners out there to support. We're going to get you out water skiing. No, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, there are just some things and this is it. If it's not going to impact your life, there are some things that you just don't have to worry about. Water skiing for me is is that very thing. In fact, most outdoor sports and activities are that for me. At my age and stage now. You'd rather be sitting there writing. Yes, I would. Reading. Yes, I would. So, yeah, the fun stuff. ⁓ But I think, know, right now for us, we're in the good zone. And I hope we remain in the good zone, but I'm always cautious. But I know with all the work you've done through the ERP and, you know, the past several, you know, even the past six months, that you are in a much better place, that my level of heightened awareness is more down. And my worry is down. Because I know you're in a better place and I don't think you're going to manufacture issues. Or try to some trauma in our life. ⁓ man, again, I hope not to do that anymore because that is... that's painful to listen to that I've done that and to recognize that that was something I've done. And I'm so proud that I don't do that anymore. ⁓ I'm proud of a lot of what we've accomplished on this journey. Since my diagnosis and the onset of the intensive, and I think that it is a, it's, you have to find your way back to a new norm. You have to find your way back to Not even back to, but you have to find your way of accepting. OCD is a part of your life while not accepting it all the way into your life. So the ERP still has to happen. The awareness of what is OCD coming through and what isn't has to happen. But we can still find our way to a new norm that's, like Mark has said, that's peaceful and calm and each day is a good one. Or with, you know, very typical work family stressors, but it doesn't send your OCD out of whack. And we're learning how to navigate that and how to manage that, but we're doing it. Once again, thank you for joining us. Yes, we want to help others do it too. We're continuing to build this amazing community and. Want to thank all the listeners that listen to us every week. We recognize that and we appreciate that. We're so grateful. And May, May is an important month. It is. May is Mental Health Awareness Month. So if you or somebody else that is struggling with it, know, recognize that. you know, that May is that month to acknowledge it and, you know, applaud people that are working through mental ⁓ I love that. That's so nice. Whether it's OCD, anxiety, you know. Or any other of the myriad of mental health disorders that can afflict people. Yeah. But there is hope, there is support, there is help. And We're excited to continue our journey and to continue building this community of others. We'd really love to hear from any of you out there listening that might want to share their experience and their story. Absolutely. Thanks again for living uncertain with us. Yes, as always, thank you.