Latest / Rooted & Real With Keenan / Living with Chronic Illness: Faith, Resilience & Invisible Disabilities | Heather Perron
Transcript
- Keenan: All right. Hey Heather, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to have a conversation. so one question I ask everybody right off the bat is just what is your story? How did you become the person you are today? What's your story? Heather Perron: So first of all, I want to say thank you for having me on the show. I really appreciate you giving me a chance to tell my story. so thank you for that. Well, it it's it's a story. it's a little bit of a long one, but I promise I will condense it down for everyone. let's start though by going back to the very beginning, because I feel like that is the most important. I was Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: born with a congenital heart defect. and I underwent four open heart surgeries before the age of seventeen. two when I was four and five. Yeah. By the age of seventeen, I'd had four open heart surgeries and and a multitude of other you know, medical procedures, but the open heart surgeries were the biggest. I was not supposed to make it. I guess I should back up even further, really, because I wasn't supposed to make it from the hospital where I was born to the children's hospital, which is about twenty, twenty five minutes away from one another. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: they pretty much gave my mom no no hope of me making it. Keenan: my goodness. Heather Perron: And then it was, well, you know, if she's here in in in six months we'll we'll see you, you know, three months, six months, whatever my appointment schedule was. I wasn't supposed to make it to the age of one. And I did. I wasn't supposed to hit all of the milestones, you know, talking, all the things babies are supposed to do. I wasn't supposed to be able to do that. And I hit all of them. I was a little late on walking just because I didn't have the strength, but I wasn't like crazy late. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: you know, as far as the time. Now I wouldn't be late at all because a lot of kids don't walk until they're a little older anyway. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: so I hit all my milestones like I was supposed to. I started kindergarten when I was supposed to. I did all of the things I've been defeating odds since I was born, basically. Keenan: Yeah, for sure. Heather Perron: that led to a life of living with childhood trauma from, you know, the medical standpoint. And that kind of led to a bunch of other stuff. we can almost trace back everything that's happened since then to my cardiac history. Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, which for those who don't know is kind of like a pain disorder. A lot of times they believe it's it's led through trauma. when you've dealt with trauma in your past, you can develop it. Your fight or flight response never shuts off. So your body always thinks it's in pain, even though it shouldn't be. I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis, which could be from all of the surgeries I had and, you know, all of that. And then I was also diagnosed with breast cancer in twenty twenty three, which I underwent surgeries and radiation and chemo and all of the things. We don't know for sure that was because of my heart, but because of all of the X rays and the radiation, you know, from all of that, it could be. I also have PTSD. So I have a lot. It's a lot to unpack. That is all of that has led me to here where I am an invisible disability advocate, a wellness coach for those with invisible disabilities to help meet them where they are. and Keenan: Yeah. Heather Perron: then I'm also a author and podcast host. So I know that's a lot to unpack. Keenan: Wow. Okay. So well, I mean, just the mere fact that they said you weren't gonna live very long is like that's right there. Like for medical professionals to say that is crazy. Like, Heather Perron: Yes. yeah. Mm-hmm. Keenan: what was that like? A, I'm trying I don't do you remember hearing them say that and then what was it like around your house when that news came out? Heather Perron: So I don't remember them saying that, which I think is a good thing. But I Keenan: Sure, sure. Heather Perron: will say that so my mom was a single mom. Her and my grandparents raised me. they never really treated me like I couldn't do things. So I think one thing that helped is they didn't treat me like I was fragile. Or like I was gonna break, like a lot of Keenan: Hmm. Yeah. Heather Perron: parents I think would. Which I mean is completely understandable. I'm not I'm not saying anything bad about parents who do that. But I I think it was good for me because I wasn't treated as if I was different. Of course I had limitations and they had to be careful, you know, with certain things. But they always encouraged me to find my own limitations. so that helped, but You know, it was kind of the never knowing whether I was gonna end up in the hospital, was my heart gonna start failing, you know, were were Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: all of these things gonna happen was traumatic, I think, not only for me, but for them as well. one thing I do remember my doctors telling me was when I was sixteen and I had two open heart surgeries within five days of each other. Because I almost didn't survive the third one. and so we had to rush me back in for emergency open heart surgery five days later. And I do remember after that one of the doctors that was on my team at that time, not my actual cardiologist, but just one that worked in the hospital, told me that I would probably never be able to have children of my own Keenan: Hm. Heather Perron: because of my heart. now, first of all, I'm not sure why you would tell a sixteen year old that who has just gone through two open heart surgeries and is recovering and is emotional, and you are not even her primary physician. so Keenan: Right. Yeah. Heather Perron: I don't know why they told me that. But that was that was rough. I I defied those odds as well though, because while my husband and I are a blended family and we have three daughters between us. I have two that are biologically my own. Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: and those pregnancies went really well. So I am constantly defying the odds that, you know, people are like, you can't do this. I'm like, watch me. Keenan: Yeah. Heather Perron: sometimes that's not always the the smartest thing on my part. But I'm just one of those people, you know, you tell me I can't do something and I'm definitely gonna try it. Keenan: Yeah, for sure. So I mean, where do you think that came from? I mean, this like you had every opportunity to like give up and just kinda be like, Well, this is it. Like, what was that like? Heather Perron: so a lot of it, first of all, I have to say, and I don't mean to make this, you know, a religious talk or anything like that, but I have a very strong faith in God, which is, you know, my faith. And I fully believe that that without God I wouldn't be here. But also my mom and my grandparents, Keenan: Sure. Hmm. Heather Perron: they, you know, kind of Pushed me to be who I wanted to be, who I could be. They've always pushed me to do you know, my best and be the person that I want to be. And they my mammal, who is my mom's mom, of course, is kind of one of my best friends. and she Keenan: Hm, yeah. Heather Perron: and my mom both are constantly telling me. If you set your mind to it, you can do it. and they've said that since I was a little girl. So I think that's where I get that, where it's like, okay, if I set my mind to this, I can do it. Even if you think I can't, I'm I'm gonna show you. now I don't always do the best there and sometimes I do fail at things. but I think that's life. But Yeah, I I definitely have a don't give up attitude. and I definitely I tell my clients, don't give up. You Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: know, you you you just gotta keep going, even when it's tough, find what motivates you and do it. Keenan: Yes, absolutely. Heather Perron: So yeah. Keenan: Yeah. So, you know, someone listening to this could be like hearing this and, Heather Perron: Mm. Keenan: you know, they're struggling with their own motivation, like figuring out what that is, what does that look like? What do you think like they need to hear Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Keenan: when they come to you, when they come with those questions? Heather Perron: Yeah, so that is a very good question. And I would tell them, and I actually have told someone this, it is okay to have those questions. It's okay to question what motivates you because I'll be honest, I've been there myself. Even at 42 years old, Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: there are still times I question, what is my motivation for this? Why am I doing this? And so the the one thing I would tell them, and there are a lot of things you can do, but the one thing I I tell them is to find the reason you want to do whatever it is, whether that's you know, lose weight, whether that's move more, whether that's drink more water, whatever it is, whether that's write a book, whatever. Find your why. Don't just say, Well, I want to do this because it's expected of me. Because nine times out of ten, when you say, Well, I want to do this because it's expected of me, or because they tell me to, or this person said I should do this, you're not gonna follow through. So really dig deep inside yourself and say, Why am I doing this? Why do I want to do this? Not why do they want me to do this? Not why does my doctor tell me I should do this, but why do I want to do it? And only they can answer that question. I can't answer it for them. their doctors, their family, nobody else can answer that question for them. They have to do that. Now I will usually guide them depending on what it is. And I will ask them questions that they can then ask themselves. and I tell them they don't have to answer those questions to me, but they should write them down and they should ask themselves these questions. and so the why is the biggest question that I ask them, you know, why do you want to do this? And I don't want to hear, well, my doctor said or my husband wants me to do this, or my wife thinks I should do this, or you know, whatever. No, I want to know why you think you should do it. That way we Keenan: Yes. Heather Perron: can move on from there. Keenan: Yeah, for sure. I love that you guide them into what motivates them because like as a therapist, if they can draw their own conclusions and kind of spend their time owning it. Then they can it'll be Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Keenan: more powerful. So I'd love that you do that. Heather Perron: Yes. Keenan: do you find it like is there like do you have to be this half glass full or half glass empty kind of mindset coming into like this time to figure that out? Or is it more like something else? Heather Perron: I think so the biggest thing I do is I meet them where they are. So whether they are half glass full, half glass empty, glass completely empty, glass completely full, Keenan: Sure. Heather Perron: I meet them right where they are. Now for me, I go into it, I offer everyone a a consultation before we ever get started. That way, one, we know if we're a good match. two, I can kind of figure out what they're wanting. We may not have it fully developed at that point, but I can at least figure out what they're wanting. And so I try to go into it kind of with my glass empty. And I know that sounds kind of crazy, but I found if I go into it. And I've got all of these preconceived notions of how this is gonna go. Nine times out of ten, I'm wrong. because Keenan: Hm. Sure. Heather Perron: excuse me, must be the day for interruptions. I I found that if I go into it and I don't expect anything, and I just let them guide kind of how they want it to go. Now, of course, I ask questions and you know I actually lead lead it. I don't mean they guide the whole consultation. But what I mean by that is they guide what they want to focus on. And then we go from there. and then I kind of set some goals and things like that. you know my my wellness coaching isn't about necessarily losing weight or anything of that nature, like a lot of wellness coaching is. It's Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: more just how to live with invisible disabilities. which is also what my podcast is about and, you know, what I advocate for. Because we're told so much all the time of how we need to lose weight and how we need to be doing this and how we need to be doing that. And half the people telling us these things don't live with them. So they have no idea what they're really talking about, other than they've got, you know, their medical degree. Which Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: I'm not saying is a bad thing, but unless you live with it, unless you know what it feels like to live in pain every day, it's kind of hard to tell someone, well, you should be doing this or you should be doing that. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. So do you feel like your experience i enhances like how you do things with clients? Or at least gives you a perspective. Okay. Yeah. Heather Perron: for sure. yeah, for sure. Because I know for myself there are days where I am in so much pain that I can barely move. Keenan: Yeah. Heather Perron: and if I had someone telling me, Well, you need to push through that pain, I'm probably not gonna react very well. so I know when I'm meeting with clients and they tell me, Heather, I'm in a lot of pain today. I know from experience that I can tell them, okay, today we're not gonna work on movement or anything of that nature. All I want you to do is get through the day. Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: you know, and that's just one example, but there are a ton of different things. I live the way they live. I may not have the exact diagnosis they have, but I know what it's like to deal with the brain fog, to deal with the pain. To deal with the exhaustion, the fatigue, you know, feeling like your body is failing you and feeling like somehow it's your fault, because I think we all go through that. Keenan: Hmm. Yeah, for sure. Heather Perron: so I understand I understand from the actual patient side of it, and I'm not just coaching to coach, if that makes sense. I'm coaching Keenan: Right. Right, for sure. Heather Perron: To actually help others. Keenan: Mm-hmm, for sure. Heather Perron: so living how I've lived for you know, my entire life and dealing with these invisible disabilities and then developing the fibromyalgia and all of the other stuff that I've I've deal with. I felt very led again in my faith to help others in the invisible disability community because the problem is a lot of times we're not believed. You can't see that we have an illness. So a lot of people think, well, there's nothing wrong with you. I can't see that there's something wrong with you. You were fine yesterday, but today now you're saying you're tired or you're sore or you can't do this or you can't do that. And so I wanted to find a way to help those in the invisible disability or chronic illness community know they're not alone. So that actually started with the podcast. And then it snowballed from there. a friend of mine actually suggested I become a wellness coach because I myself was looking for a wellness coach to help. And everyone I met with, they refused to really pay attention to my my medical struggles, my health struggles. And they would want me to do these exercises that I knew if I did would send me up into a flare-up. And I would be down for a week. and I'm not exaggerating either. So I wanted to start something where I could help others reclaim their health and their wellness, but on their terms and not be pushed into doing a bunch of physical activity that was just gonna end up making them feel worse in the long run. Keenan: Yeah, for sure. so I'm curious to know do you does this I mean, does living with chronic pain, is that like what's the word I want to use? How much of that would you say like impacts how you talk to people? Like is it like a like I'm going through it right now or Today's good. Like how are you both like taking care of yourself but also still being able to pour into other people? Heather Perron: That is a really good question. and I think it's one that does not get asked enough. So thank you for that. it is a balancing act. It is a tightrope, Keenan: Mm, for sure. Heather Perron: to be honest. One thing that I have found is that while I never want to just cancel on someone for no reason, I have learned that it is okay to say, Hey, I'm struggling today. I don't have the energy to do this. because if you're working with someone in the chronic illness community, they should understand what that's like. And I am completely okay if one of my clients was to email me or message me and say, Hey Heather, I'm not I'm not okay today. Can we reschedule? I'm gonna say a hundred percent. I don't care if they if they do it two minutes before. it's supposed to start. I'm okay with that because that's life and that's part of living with chronic illness. something that I do a lot is I know my boundaries, I know my limits. Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: And I of course have had years of experience learning those limits and those boundaries. so it is something that I do talk to my clients about. I'm like, you need to learn your limitations. You need to learn that it is Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: a hundred percent okay to say no, to say, Hey, I need time. and also learn what helps you recover. Keenan: Mm-hmm, for sure. For sure. So I mean, is this like it sounds like this is an ongoing for someone who is working through this? It's an ongoing process of learning like what Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Keenan: works and what doesn't work. Is that like, does that inhibit Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Keenan: people like from reaching out or just buying into the process? Like what what happens when someone gets frustrated with that? Heather Perron: Yeah, so it Keenan: Okay. Heather Perron: it can be frustrating, for sure. And I have had a couple people come to the consultation and we talk, we go through what it consists of, you know, what the program consists of, how many sessions they want to have, how often they wanna meet. I mean, I leave that all up to them. If somebody only wants Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: to meet once a month, we can make that work. Is it ideal, especially in the beginning? No, because you gotta you gotta develop the habits pretty early. But I have had people come to the consultation and then just never contact me again. and I don't know if it's because they get overwhelmed. Now, of course, that doesn't happen every consultation, but because if it did, I would then question my own skills. But I I think it is sometimes overwhelming. it can be frustrating because I think a lot of times people come into this and they think, Well, I'm gonna get a wellness coach, and in in two months, I'm gonna be a completely different person. And when you're living Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: with a chronic illness, that's just that's not realistic. so it's definitely there. it can be frustrating, and you know, it's frustrating for me too, and I've been at this my whole life. you know, there's times Keenan: Sure, sure. Heather Perron: where I'm like, I wanna be a different person, but it I think it's more learning to live with it and how to live with it but still live well. Keenan: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. So I mean, you mentioned a program. Like what are you kind of working on right now? Yeah. Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. So right now I'm more just doing the wellness, you know, coaching session by session, you know, individually. I am working slowly, slowly because I have to l stick with my own limitations, but I am working on putting together an actual coaching program that people can do on their own. so it Keenan: Okay. Okay. Heather Perron: would be a series of videos that they would you know it would be a one-time fee instead of you know by session fee and it is it's a program that's kind of in the starting stages. Like I said, it would be a sorry brain fog got me there again, but it would be just a series of videos on how they could overcome certain obstacles. again, living with chronic illness, and this is something that I want everybody to to really listen to, is with chronic illness, you are never gonna be the person you were before. That's just Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: that's the reality of it. Unless you have something that is curable, nine times out of ten, you are never gonna be the person you were before your diagnosis. what I wanna do is create a program and what I am working on, even with my one-on-one coaching, is creating a world where you are living with this diagnosis, but you are still able to live a life that you would want to live, that Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: you are able to work within your limitations, but still be able to do the things you want to do in your life. Because so many people get diagnosed with chronic illness and they just kind of give up on life. They just sit around the house and don't leave and don't, you know, and and I get it. Trust me, I get it. there are days where I'm like, I don't want to move off this couch. and there are days that I don't move off the couch. But that can't be your everyday because that's not fair to you. it's not fair to your family either, but it's not fair to you to miss out on the things. that you you so desperately want in life. I hope that made Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: sense. Keenan: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So someone, so someone listening to this, you know, dealing through chronic pain, and they're kind of like, man, I want some of that. Like, or I want to, you know, have a Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Keenan: have a full life. What do you think they need to hear right now as they're listening to our conversation? Heather Perron: I think it is important to, and I know we talked about this a few minutes ago, but remember your why. And I know that Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: that probably doesn't make a lot of sense to a lot of people, but let me explain. When you are going through chronic illness or invisible disabilities, and you are going through this pain and you are you are feeling so alone, remember why. you want to do the things you want to do. Say it's traveling. We'll use that as an an example. You want to still travel because you love traveling. But because of this pain, because of you know the brain fog, the fatigue, all of this, you you may think you can't travel anymore. Remember why you loved traveling to begin with. Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: And then seek out people who understand what you're going through to rely on them. if you are in therapy, talk to your therap therapist about it. talk to someone who understands and know that you are not alone in these feelings, but remembering your why and remembering why you want to better yourself. and I again I know that probably sounds silly. They're like, Well, you know, I I want to better myself because I still want to travel. Well, great. But remember that because on those days that you feel crummy, you feel like you are never going to be able to do anything ever again. Remember that you are still in there. The person who loves to travel, the person who loves to bake, the person who loves to do whatever it is you love to do, you are still in there and you still can do those things. You just have to learn to do them within your limitations. And it is a hundred percent doable. Keenan: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Understanding your why is is really good motivation for that. Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Keenan: and it seems like Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Keenan: having like a deeper like finding a purpose seems like that could probably tie into that. Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Keenan: it just it I'm I'm curious to know. Heather Perron: Yes. Mm-hmm. so they're kind of all over the place, as far as that goes. some of are still in the diagnosis process. They're they're not sure, Know because when you're living with a chronic illness, sometimes it takes years to actually get an official diagnosis because a lot Keenan: Sure. Heather Perron: of these things can't be found easily. There's a lot of these illnesses that don't have a single test to be able to definitively say, Yes, this is it. so some of them are still in that process of I think I have this, but I can't get anybody to believe me. So I help them with that as well. I have people who have just been diagnosed and they're like, I don't know anything, I need help. and then I've had people who have lived with something for years and they're just Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: like, you know what, I can't do this on my own anymore. I need help. so Keenan: Yeah. Yeah. Heather Perron: again, all over the place as far as that goes. Keenan: For sure, for sure. do you feel like I mean 'cause even in that aspect, it's like sometimes you need to reach out to somebody and sometimes you don't. Like would you say it's always better to reach out to somebody with that? Or is it more like at some point it's better to like I guess I guess how do you feel about that? Some people waiting so long and some people like finding out right on the right off the bat. Heather Perron: Feel like So I think a lot of the issue is there are not a lot of people out there like me. there are wellness coaches for everything, but there are not a lot of wellness coaches or health coaches or anyone really that specializes, I would say, Keenan: Sure. Heather Perron: in chronic illness and invisible disability. So I think a lot of it is a lot of the reason that some of these people have waited so long is because there really wasn't anyone to reach out to. Keenan: Hm, yeah. Heather Perron: and I feel like it would be better. I wish there was someone I could have reached out to. I still wish there was was someone I could reach out to at times because it's okay to admit you need help. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: doing this alone is is not easy, especially when you will most of the time your family, your friends, they have no idea what you're going through. And so it's hard. You know, when when you you are living like this, you feel very isolated. I would say if you are any stage is good point to reach out, but if you were thinking, you know, I might have fibromyalgia or I might have lupus or I might have MS or I might have this or I might have that, whatever it is. There are a ton of them. Keenan: Mm-hmm. For sure. Heather Perron: it is okay to reach out to someone. And it's okay to say, hey, I don't know what is happening. and how do I get my doctors to believe me, or how do I get my doctors to send me for more testing? I'm happy to answer those questions as well. That's less from a wellness coach standpoint and more from an advocate standpoint. but I feel like Having someone you know in your is in your corner and truly understands what you're going through is is something that you just you can't I'm trying to think of the word I'm I'm trying to use here, but it is just something that's very invaluable. It is very Keenan: Mm-hmm, for sure. Heather Perron: something that is is just very much needed for those in this community. Keenan: Yeah, for sure. Cause even like, you know, I imagine you get the diagnosis and you it feels isolating to understand like this is what my life could Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Yes. Keenan: look like and will look like. you Heather Perron: Yes. Keenan: mentioned earlier about God, and we talk a lot about faith and mental health Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Keenan: on this podcast. what role Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Yes. Keenan: does God play in all of this for you? Heather Perron: the ultimate role, pretty much. God is what leads me. I Keenan: Hmm. Absolutely. Heather Perron: am not the type of person that like when he first told me I needed to do a podcast, and of course it wasn't just like that, you know, it wasn't like do a podcast. It was you know, I needed to tell my story. I needed to, you know, I felt very led to tell my story and to help those in the invisible disability community. And I argued with him. I'm not gonna lie. I was like, nope, Keenan: For sure. For sure. Heather Perron: not me. Not me. that is not me at all. Public speaking is not my thing. And he's like, that's what you think. and so here I am. But Keenan: Yeah. Heather Perron: very much feel led in everything I've done. Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: by him I feel very much like it is what I am supposed to be doing. It is his purpose for me, is Keenan: Yeah. Heather Perron: to share my story and help others, however that may be. Keenan: Absolutely. For sure. Amen to that. Like for sure. That's you know, and I think that could be like a valuable piece of this is to really lean into who God has made you to be Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Keenan: and and and what his plans are. do you have people that you see that come in kind of upset with God? Like, why did he do this to me? Why did he make me this way? Why is this happening to me? Like I mean, what do you think they they need when they say those things? Heather Perron: I I have very much talked to people about that. Keenan: Mm, for sure. Heather Perron: I spoke with someone last week and of course I'm not gonna give any identifying details, but I spoke with someone last week and they they told me that they were very angry with God at that moment. And I I think what a lot of people need to hear in that situation is that that's normal. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Heather Perron: I think we we tend to we we tend to say, well, you shouldn't be angry at God and you, you know, you you need to glorify God and you need to worship God and you need to praise God, and all of those things are absolutely a hundred percent accurate. However, we are human, we Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: have human emotions, and Keenan: Right. Heather Perron: I fully believe it is okay to unleash your anger on God. He can take it. however, I also think that it is important to know that once you unleash your your anger on God, you need to also still lean into him and still Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: be faithful and still know that no matter what is happening right now, he will find a way to use you and ultimately you will be h healed, you know, even if that is once you're in heaven. Keenan: Right, Heather Perron: I've been angry with God. And Keenan: for sure. Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: I tell them that. You know, I tell them. They're like, you you seem like you have it all together. I'm like, I promise I don't. I promise that I fall apart a lot. And I've had other wellness coaches tell me, Well, you shouldn't tell your clients that. Why? It's part of living with chronic illness, it's part of being human. I've been angry at God. I have screamed at God before. And then Keenan: Mm. Heather Perron: I turn around and I still praise him for the good that he's done in my life. Both things Keenan: Yes. Heather Perron: can be true at the same time. And Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: I think the best thing to do is remember we are human. As long as we're not turning away from God, it's okay to show him that we are angry and upset. I think he expects that because again, we are human. Keenan: Absolutely. Yeah. I think he expects it. you know, I think he likes us communicating with him and expressing how we feel. So I I'm right there with you for Heather Perron: Yeah. Keenan: sure. Yeah. so a couple of questions I'd like to ask near the end. is like if you had everyone's attention in the whole world for one minute, what do you think they all need to hear? Heather Perron: so the most important thing that I think everyone needs to hear, no matter what if you're going through a chronic illness or not, is that you are not alone. There is someone out there, as far as humans Keenan: Hmm. Yes. Heather Perron: go, that is going through something, even if not the exact same, very similar to you. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: so you are not alone. But more importantly, Because of God, you are never alone. It may seem like you are, but he is always there with you no matter what. And once you're through this hurdle, you will look back and you will see where he was working. I know Keenan: Mm-hmm. Heather Perron: I have many times. Keenan: For sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I love that. I mean, look at where God is working, look at what he's done, acknowledge that for sure. we to also Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Yes. Keenan: talk a lot about mental health on this podcast. Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Keenan: somebody listening could be like thinking about getting therapy or reaching out to a wellness coach and they're on the fence about Heather Perron: Mm-hmm. Keenan: it. Like, what do you think they need to hear to get them off the fence? Heather Perron: I think mental health is something that is not talked about enough. and I I have people that disagree with me on that, but it's the truth. We see it as a negative. we see it as if we need help, we're we're failing. And I want them to know that. That is not true. That is actually quite the opposite. If you are on the fence about needing a therapist or a wellness coach, reach out to someone because I promise you that is not failing. That is a hundred percent the exact opposite. That is you taking control of your health and your mental health and saying, hey, I need help, and it's okay to need help because it is okay to need help. Keenan: For sure. Heather Perron: We all need help at some point Keenan: Absolutely. Heather Perron: or another. Keenan: Absolutely. Absolutely. so last question. Any good books, podcasts people can look up to do more research on the things we've talked about today. Heather Perron: So there are Keenan: Yeah. Heather Perron: well of course my podcast. I have to say that. But Keenan: Absolutely. For sure. Heather Perron: I I would say there are a couple of books. Jenny Handy has a book, and I'm trying to remember the name of it. Missing Hour Before. Now, this is a book about being the caregiver of someone with an invisible disability or chronic illness. However, I think it's really important for everyone in the invisible disability community to read. I read it as the patient. my husband is in the process of reading it, or well, he will be in the process of reading it, whether he knows it or not. As the caregiver. And I will tell you from the patient side of it, I was blown away. because we tend to get wrapped up in our own feelings. And she does a really good job about explaining it from the caregiver side. so I really love that one. That's the only one because of brain fog that I can think of right now, that would be a good one. There are other podcasts. I would just suggest typing in invisible disabilities or chronic illness into the podcast platform. because there are there are so many different ones. And I know if I say one and I forget somebody else, they're gonna be like, Why did you forget my podcast? but there are there are a ton of them out there that are really good and you can even find them specific to your diagnosis. Keenan: For sure. For sure. How can people find you and what you do? Heather Perron: so you can find me on Facebook and TikTok at Walking with Heather. Instagram is Walking with Heather1. Walking with Heather was taken somehow. and then you can also find me at www.walkingwithheather.com. my podcast is Living Beyond the Invisible, a Walk with Heather, and that is on YouTube and Spotify, Amazon, all of the major platforms as well. Keenan: Okay. Awesome. Well, Heather, thank you so much for sharing your story and just getting it to connect with you. I really appreciate your time. Heather Perron: Yes, thank you for having me again. I truly appreciate you giving me the platform to tell my story and kind of help others.