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AI, Pharmacy System Evolution & Emerging Therapies | TWIRx · Pharmacy Podcast Network

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1:21
Speaker 2: You are listening to the global network of podcasters dedicated
1:24
Speaker 2: to the pharmacy profession.
1:26
Speaker 3: Welcome to the Pharmacy podcast Network.
1:53
Speaker 4: This week in Pharmacy March thirteenth to twenty twenty six
1:57
Speaker 4: listening Yes, March Friday, March thirteenth, twenty twenty six, Twerks,
2:04
Speaker 4: we have a lot to talk about, all right, Keith,
2:20
Speaker 4: Keith Calamus is coming back from nested Knowledge. I don't
2:25
Speaker 4: know if you've listened to any of our other tworks
2:30
Speaker 4: where we had Keith chiming in on the evolution of
2:34
Speaker 4: artificial intelligence and impact on the pharmacy industry and how
2:42
Speaker 4: it's accelerating. It's getting crazy. It's fast paced, paced, extremely fast.
2:48
Speaker 4: Probably the fastest sector of innovation right now is tied
2:54
Speaker 4: into something with artificial intelligence. And we've had some support
2:59
Speaker 4: from TJ Labs and their knowledge and their guidance to
3:05
Speaker 4: the profession. The specific sectors of pharmacy and artificial intelligence
3:09
Speaker 4: has become extremely interesting. You have to pay attention to
3:14
Speaker 4: what Keith's doing. We're going to be talking about that.
3:17
Speaker 4: We're going to be talking with outcomes leu Ann Myers
3:21
Speaker 4: and the technology sector of pharmacy and supporting what needs
3:26
Speaker 4: to be done and plugging pharmacists into just about everything
3:32
Speaker 4: and more, especially with the rise of research and documentation
3:38
Speaker 4: and the FDA looking for pharmacists. This is big, so
3:44
Speaker 4: it's going to be a good conversation for infrastructure and
3:49
Speaker 4: technology to support that. Doctor Frank Gregory from Cardinal Health
3:55
Speaker 4: will be on. You aren't going to want to miss
3:58
Speaker 4: the updates to sell in gene therapy and also some
4:02
Speaker 4: touching touches on biosimilars and what this means for what
4:10
Speaker 4: this means for our profession and pharmacists becoming specialists. It's
4:16
Speaker 4: exciting to think of that. It's exciting to think that
4:19
Speaker 4: there are pharmacists out there right now who are going
4:21
Speaker 4: to become specialists in in very specific biosimilar medication management. Hey,
4:31
Speaker 4: but first up, let's go Twerk's news.
4:34
Speaker 5: Reporting from Saint George News from March thirteenth, twenty twenty six.
4:37
Speaker 5: Utah has launched a first in the nation pilot program
4:40
Speaker 5: allowing artificial intelligence to renew certain prescriptions, sparking debate across
4:44
Speaker 5: the healthcare community. The program, developed with health tech startup Doctronic,
4:48
Speaker 5: allows AI to approve refills for about one hundred and
4:51
Speaker 5: ninety common medications used to treat chronic conditions such as hypertension, diabetes,
4:56
Speaker 5: and thyroid disease. The AI system verifies patient identity, review,
5:00
Speaker 5: use medication history, and screens for drug interactions before sending
5:03
Speaker 5: approved renewals to a pharmacy, with uncertain cases escalated to
5:06
Speaker 5: a human clinician. Supporters say the technology could reduce physician workload,
5:10
Speaker 5: improve medication adherents, and speed up access to routine refills,
5:14
Speaker 5: especially in areas facing provider fotages. However, critics, including physician groups,
5:19
Speaker 5: warned that removing clinicians from prescribing decisions could create patient's
5:23
Speaker 5: safety risks and accountability challenges, emphasizing that AI should assist
5:28
Speaker 5: rather than replace, medical professionals. The results of Utah's pilot
5:32
Speaker 5: could influence how AI is integrated into prescribing and medication
5:35
Speaker 5: management nationwide.
5:37
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a tool, just like anything else. The
5:43
Speaker 4: calculator doesn't have the final say and what the decisions
5:46
Speaker 4: are around dozing.
5:49
Speaker 6: What's up to you.
5:50
Speaker 4: You're the pharmacist, You are in control. No one's taken
5:53
Speaker 4: your jobs. This is this needs to be redefined as
5:58
Speaker 4: what it is in information and resource. A calculator, a
6:02
Speaker 4: word processor that is extremely organized and has the ability
6:09
Speaker 4: to pull in massive amounts of data and an access
6:15
Speaker 4: to that data.
6:17
Speaker 6: And what AI is going.
6:20
Speaker 4: To do for the pharmacist is just incredible but it's
6:23
Speaker 4: not in a position to take over any of the
6:28
Speaker 4: any of the actions that are tied to your license
6:31
Speaker 4: as a pharmacist.
6:33
Speaker 6: Like, come on, that's not happening.
6:35
Speaker 4: But reach out to your state representative and just get
6:38
Speaker 4: them ahead of this because you don't want to be
6:41
Speaker 4: hijacked in your state.
6:43
Speaker 7: Ay.
6:43
Speaker 8: Next up, an opinion piece in pen Live Patriot News
6:47
Speaker 8: warns that pharmacy deserts are rapidly expanding across Pennsylvania, leaving
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Speaker 8: many communities without convenient access to medications and pharmacists care.
6:55
Speaker 8: The article notes that more than one thousand community pharmacies
6:57
Speaker 8: have closed statewide since twenty twenty, forcing patients, especially seniors,
7:02
Speaker 8: rural residents, and those without reliable transportation, to travel farther
7:05
Speaker 8: for prescriptions and basic health care services. The commentary calls
7:09
Speaker 8: on Harrisburg lawmakers to act quickly, arguing that policy changes,
7:12
Speaker 8: particularly reforms addressing pharmacy reimbursement and pharmacy benefit manager practices,
7:17
Speaker 8: are needed to stabilize community pharmacies and protect patient access.
7:20
Speaker 8: Without stronger legislative action, the author warns that additional closures
7:24
Speaker 8: could deepen pharmacy deserts across both urban and rural areas
7:27
Speaker 8: of the state.
7:28
Speaker 4: Shout out to Vicky Elliott Victoria Elliott, the executive director, sorry,
7:34
Speaker 4: the chief Executive Director CEO of the Pennsylvania Pharmacists Association
7:40
Speaker 4: for writing this piece. Take a look at this. We'll
7:42
Speaker 4: make sure that this is in the show notes for
7:45
Speaker 4: your access. This is a great story and I want
7:48
Speaker 4: you to share this with your fellow state Pharmacy Association
7:54
Speaker 4: and get all the heads together to repeat what Vicki
8:01
Speaker 4: is mentioning and writing.
8:02
Speaker 2: In about ainex up posted today from Pharmacy Times, the
8:07
Speaker 2: article reads Prevalence of Female Authorship in Pharmacy Publishing examines
8:11
Speaker 2: the representation of women as authors in pharmacy related academic
8:14
Speaker 2: publications and how it compares with the broader pharmacy workforce.
8:18
Speaker 2: The article highlights that although women make up a large
8:20
Speaker 2: proportion of the pharmacy workforce, their representation in scholarly publishing,
8:24
Speaker 2: particularly in senior or leadership authorship roles, has historically lagged
8:27
Speaker 2: behind Research. Examining pharmacy journals shows that women increasingly appear
8:31
Speaker 2: as first authors, reflecting growing participation in research and academia. However,
8:36
Speaker 2: women remain less represented as senior authors, a position typically
8:39
Speaker 2: associated with research, leadership, and mentorship. This gap suggests that
8:43
Speaker 2: while progress has been made in female participation in pharmacy publishing,
8:46
Speaker 2: disparities still exist in leadership and senior academic roles. The
8:50
Speaker 2: findings emphasize the need for continued mentorship, support and opportunities
8:54
Speaker 2: to help women advance in research and publishing within the
8:56
Speaker 2: pharmacy profession.
8:58
Speaker 6: Pooh, who's going to do the research to find out?
9:04
Speaker 4: Since women have eclipsed men within the profession of pharmacy,
9:12
Speaker 4: what attributes of the profession of pharmacy care of patient care?
9:20
Speaker 4: What attributes have from documenting from data, how can we
9:25
Speaker 4: show a difference in what the industry was like?
9:29
Speaker 6: Because from just my opinion.
9:33
Speaker 4: Observing the pharmacy profession now for more than twenty years
9:38
Speaker 4: and documenting it through podcasting for seventeen, there is an
9:44
Speaker 4: opportunity to become more clinical from slowing down and being
9:51
Speaker 4: a little bit more introspective to the sector of pharmacy
9:55
Speaker 4: that you're commanding and you're overseeing, whether that's rare disease
9:59
Speaker 4: or hypertension or disease or pediatrics or whatever it is.
10:04
Speaker 4: But women have an opportunity to take advantage of some
10:10
Speaker 4: of that first hand experience and women's health, women's health issues, pediatrics,
10:17
Speaker 4: as mothers. And I'm not trying to say that women
10:22
Speaker 4: need more health care, but in some ways they do,
10:25
Speaker 4: especially with the motherhood thing. But I think this is
10:30
Speaker 4: a huge opportunity for us to really start pushing women
10:36
Speaker 4: pharmacists that. But here's the truth of the matter. I
10:40
Speaker 4: think of let me shout out to doctor Jenna Quinn, right,
10:44
Speaker 4: so she builds the perfecting peds. They are now nationally known,
10:50
Speaker 4: they're making the news. They got Mark Cuban coming on
10:54
Speaker 4: their podcast too. We'll be broadcasting through and pushing that
10:59
Speaker 4: through the network so that you guys can hear it.
11:03
Speaker 4: But she doesn't have time necessarily to write a paper
11:08
Speaker 4: on something. Someday, I'm sure she will shed builds her
11:12
Speaker 4: team out, but I mean there's a lot of pressures
11:15
Speaker 4: on where that information is coming from, and if it's
11:21
Speaker 4: an inside academia. We just need to get more grants
11:25
Speaker 4: tied back to women's research, and I think there's specific,
11:31
Speaker 4: once again advantages that women would have to drill down
11:35
Speaker 4: into things that are not getting enough attention. That's why
11:38
Speaker 4: I'm so excited about doctor Daniel Plumber on the network
11:42
Speaker 4: focusing on pregnancy, becoming pregnant, dealing with pregnancy issues, post
11:47
Speaker 4: pregnancy issues. Why I'm so excited that doctor Nadilla Archimbas
11:53
Speaker 4: coming back our sex farm d specific issues that women
11:58
Speaker 4: in sexual health experience is that men do not experience.
12:02
Speaker 4: But guess what MEDEA is going to be jumping over
12:04
Speaker 4: into men's health anyway. I'm just saying that we need
12:08
Speaker 4: to do whatever we can to support women authors of
12:14
Speaker 4: information that can be pushed up through the exhausting process
12:19
Speaker 4: that is journaling, and I would love to sponsor projects
12:24
Speaker 4: to get them funding so that they can get published
12:29
Speaker 4: once again on specific issues that I think they have
12:32
Speaker 4: an advantage over a man in pharmacy, not necessarily in
12:38
Speaker 4: the totality, but definitely in the specifics. But I want
12:45
Speaker 4: to just shout you out. If you are doing research,
12:48
Speaker 4: if you want your research promoted, if you want to
12:51
Speaker 4: build something to get more attention around it, hook me up.
12:56
Speaker 6: I would love to be a part of it.
12:57
Speaker 9: A letter to the editor in the Tennesseean Post Today
13:00
Speaker 9: argues that CVS is using threats of pharmacy closures to
13:04
Speaker 9: protect its profits as Tennessee lawmakers consider legislation targeting pharmacy
13:08
Speaker 9: benefit managers. The proposed bill SB twenty forty would prohibit
13:12
Speaker 9: PBMs from owning or operating pharmacies, a structure used by
13:16
Speaker 9: vertically integrated companies like CVS Health, which owns both CVS
13:20
Speaker 9: Pharmacies and the PBM CVS Care mark. The writer claims
13:24
Speaker 9: CVS's warnings that it could close one hundred and thirty
13:26
Speaker 9: four Tennessee pharmacies if the bill passes are misleading, arguing
13:30
Speaker 9: the legislation would only require companies to divest their PBM
13:34
Speaker 9: or pharmacy ownership, not shut down stores. Supporters of the
13:37
Speaker 9: bills say the measure would reduce conflicts of interest and
13:40
Speaker 9: create a fairer prescription drug market, while CVS contends the
13:43
Speaker 9: policy could disrupt patient access to pharmacy care and jobs
13:47
Speaker 9: across the state.
13:48
Speaker 4: So I am a I'm going to admit I am
13:51
Speaker 4: not a poker player. I've tried it a couple times.
13:57
Speaker 4: I don't think I'm naturally good at it, but I
13:59
Speaker 4: think it's fun. But when you think of the cards
14:03
Speaker 4: and you think the strategies that come with poker or
14:08
Speaker 4: whatever you're playing, this is a card game at CBS
14:13
Speaker 4: Health and their parent company is now playing and We're
14:18
Speaker 4: calling them on their on their bullshit and and saying
14:24
Speaker 4: that this is going to be a threat to close
14:27
Speaker 4: stores and the lies to protect profits. And what's truth
14:31
Speaker 4: is that they are doing nothing but trying to protect profits.
14:37
Speaker 4: This is not about being a healthcare provider specifically, and
14:43
Speaker 4: it's it's the control you. All you have to do
14:45
Speaker 4: is give up those stores and divest and your insurance
14:50
Speaker 4: agent agency can Your PBM can grow, and your pharmacies
14:55
Speaker 4: they can grow too. You have every right to grow
14:57
Speaker 4: those businesses, but you have absolutely zero right to take
15:01
Speaker 4: tax dollars or funding or private funding for that matter,
15:05
Speaker 4: and build an advantage to your organizations in picking up
15:11
Speaker 4: more of that revenue on purpose by design that you
15:14
Speaker 4: can't give other opportunities for other sectors of pharmacy to
15:18
Speaker 4: pick up, whether that's our regional chains, our grocery store organizations,
15:23
Speaker 4: our independent pharmacies to be able to play into the
15:26
Speaker 4: opportunity to serve their communities. So, you know, f you
15:33
Speaker 4: to CBS Health for not backing down because PBM reforms
15:37
Speaker 4: coming no matter what. Now there's too much, too much
15:41
Speaker 4: of it has been put out there to the public.
15:43
Speaker 4: The public's finally getting smart to it, and CBS knows it.
15:50
Speaker 4: They know the end is coming to the way things
15:52
Speaker 4: are right now, and they're going to try to squeeze
15:55
Speaker 4: all of the revenue out rather than what if they
15:58
Speaker 4: took a step back in a pr opportunity to say,
16:02
Speaker 4: we're going to take we want to bring every pharmacy
16:06
Speaker 4: association together. We want a huge powwow, and we want
16:10
Speaker 4: to design a brand new payment system that reimburses pharmacists
16:15
Speaker 4: for what they know and treatment that they drive, and
16:18
Speaker 4: knowledge of therapeutic excellence and choosing the right medication or
16:23
Speaker 4: maybe a biosimilar or something else that's going on. Just
16:27
Speaker 4: really giving pharmacists the ability to practice their specific their
16:34
Speaker 4: specifics and get paid to do it, just like physicians
16:37
Speaker 4: and specialists that are physicians, and there's no difference, especially
16:41
Speaker 4: with the Board of Pharmacy Expansions. So shame on you again,
16:48
Speaker 4: CBS for trying to paint it a very insincere way
16:55
Speaker 4: to the public that you aren't telling the truth. You're
16:59
Speaker 4: not saying saying, hey, we don't want to give up revenue.
17:02
Speaker 4: As an insurance company, we own pharmacies and there's manipulation
17:07
Speaker 4: within that. I don't know why Stark Law isn't already
17:10
Speaker 4: slamming down on this whole thing twenty years ago, but
17:14
Speaker 4: it is what it is. I'm excited about what you're
17:18
Speaker 4: about to hear from from Keith Calmus and an update
17:24
Speaker 4: on resourcing information through the use of a very interesting
17:32
Speaker 4: a tool for resourcing, especially if you're in research. But
17:38
Speaker 4: I'm I'm excited about this. I'm excited about you listening
17:41
Speaker 4: in nested Knowledge. By the way, is the is the company.
17:45
Speaker 4: I want you to look up nested dash knowledge and.
17:51
Speaker 6: Take it away.
17:54
Speaker 4: Hey, welcome back to this week in pharmacy. Guess who's back.
17:57
Speaker 4: Keith is back, cal ill miss Keith is back. He
18:02
Speaker 4: is back, He's back. Well, I'll stop now. I always
18:06
Speaker 4: wanted to down deep inside to be a rapper, and
18:08
Speaker 4: it's never going to work.
18:09
Speaker 6: It's never gonna work.
18:10
Speaker 4: Keith, what did you want to be when you were
18:12
Speaker 4: when you were little and you wanted to grow up
18:15
Speaker 4: a physician at you were close kind of like an
18:19
Speaker 4: artificial intelligence physician.
18:22
Speaker 10: Yeah, by this way, I don't have to be in
18:23
Speaker 10: a hospital.
18:24
Speaker 4: Or get blood on you or somebody thrown up on
18:27
Speaker 4: you or something.
18:29
Speaker 6: Welcome back to twers. This is Keith Calumus. If people.
18:32
Speaker 4: If the listeners don't know, Keith and his brother and
18:35
Speaker 4: his team have built an amazing tool in the space
18:40
Speaker 4: of our pharmacy industry. I met you Keith at Asembia
18:44
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four, and you're returning for Access to Pharmacy
18:49
Speaker 4: twenty twenty six. I can't wait to see you there.
18:52
Speaker 4: But what do you like about going to a SEMBI.
18:56
Speaker 11: I mean, first of all, it's a great time to
18:58
Speaker 11: be in Vegas. It's not too hot, not too cold,
19:00
Speaker 11: and the outdoors around there is spectacular. With food grade
19:03
Speaker 11: Assembia specifically, it's a really interesting cross section of my
19:07
Speaker 11: conventional user base in the pharmaceutical industry with the people
19:12
Speaker 11: who are ultimately leveraging the data that heal economists at
19:15
Speaker 11: pharma companies are producing, right payers PBM's formulary, right people
19:21
Speaker 11: deciding what medicines patients should get. So in my day
19:25
Speaker 11: to day, I'm constantly just on the on the production line,
19:29
Speaker 11: if you will.
19:29
Speaker 10: But it's really nice to see.
19:31
Speaker 11: Where that data is ending up, who's making those decisions,
19:34
Speaker 11: and how they're making those decisions. So getting getting the
19:38
Speaker 11: full picture of health economists, getting the full picture of
19:41
Speaker 11: how decisions are made.
19:43
Speaker 10: It's just a really cool experience.
19:46
Speaker 4: All right, So when we go to Assembia Pharmacy Podcast Network,
19:50
Speaker 4: we're going to be there as press. We're going to
19:52
Speaker 4: be concentrating on three different categories of of topics, kind
19:57
Speaker 4: of the innovation of the industry. We're going to be
20:00
Speaker 4: concentrating on artificial intelligence impact on specialties specifically, and then
20:04
Speaker 4: women's health and how it's different than other components of
20:09
Speaker 4: health care per se.
20:10
Speaker 6: We're gonna have some representation for each of those.
20:13
Speaker 4: You're going to be part of the AI panel that
20:16
Speaker 4: we're going to discuss. You and I were talking about
20:18
Speaker 4: formulary management, and boy, I tell you what when I'm
20:21
Speaker 4: when I'm thinking of specialty that really that really aligns.
20:25
Speaker 4: Can you talk to our listeners about what you guys
20:28
Speaker 4: are doing with with formulary management?
20:32
Speaker 10: Yeah?
20:32
Speaker 11: Great, great question. The first and simplest would be what
20:38
Speaker 11: I would call horizon scanning. Horizon scanning, we have an
20:42
Speaker 11: API with Clinical Trials dot gov which would allow users
20:48
Speaker 11: to essentially automate with with good system accombination of good
20:53
Speaker 11: systems and AI knowledge synthesis for what drugs are coming
20:59
Speaker 11: to mark and that could be a novel drug that
21:02
Speaker 11: has some really exciting implications for you know, patients struggling
21:07
Speaker 11: with the rare disease too. There's a there's a patent
21:12
Speaker 11: cliff for a big drug. There's a lot of patent
21:15
Speaker 11: cliffs coming up in twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight,
21:19
Speaker 11: where there's going to be biosimilars that are that are
21:22
Speaker 11: going to end the end of the competitive space.
21:24
Speaker 10: And you know, you just think.
21:26
Speaker 11: With some of these larger health plans and PBMs, you know,
21:30
Speaker 11: they could probably save tens.
21:32
Speaker 10: Of millions of dollars.
21:33
Speaker 11: A day if they can, if they can certify clinical
21:39
Speaker 11: equivalents with the biosimilar and then get the lives they
21:42
Speaker 11: cover to switch over to that biosimilar versus the brand name.
21:46
Speaker 11: So really staying on top of that. Obviously it's a
21:51
Speaker 11: lot of work conventionally, but with good systems with AI,
21:56
Speaker 11: you can actually automate that. So you're going to know
21:58
Speaker 11: exactly what biosomone would be available when you'd have a
22:03
Speaker 11: really good understanding of preliminary readoubts, you'd be notified as
22:07
Speaker 11: new pieces of evidence or end entering a literature or
22:11
Speaker 11: new trialser going into into clinical trials talk up. So
22:14
Speaker 11: that's I think probably the most simplest and most exciting
22:17
Speaker 11: that I can that I can encapsulate. I did a
22:19
Speaker 11: build at a sembia the year I met you where
22:22
Speaker 11: someone asked me to do well. I'm in charge of
22:25
Speaker 11: horizon scanning. It always takes me so time, so much
22:27
Speaker 11: time that I built. I built her like in fifteen minutes.
22:29
Speaker 10: What what she was? Her job?
22:31
Speaker 11: So that was really fun. Another another interesting aspect is
22:37
Speaker 11: formula decisions. So how do you decide what what drug
22:42
Speaker 11: should be on formulary. There's a lot of evidence that
22:45
Speaker 11: has to go into that. Obviously, first and foremost has
22:48
Speaker 11: to be the clinical evidence. What is most benefits, but
22:50
Speaker 11: most beneficial for patients. That's that's why everyone's there, right,
22:55
Speaker 11: That's it. Ultimately it comes down to like making life
22:59
Speaker 11: longer or more palatable or more livable for patients. So
23:05
Speaker 11: what drugs work? That's the first question you have to ask.
23:08
Speaker 11: You also have to ask how many patients in in.
23:14
Speaker 10: Your covered lives might have that.
23:18
Speaker 11: That's that's an epidemiological question, and the incidents in prevalence
23:22
Speaker 11: of different diseases is quite variable in the US, depending
23:27
Speaker 11: on all the demographic and regional factors that are collected
23:30
Speaker 11: in clinical trials. So you know, if you're covering, if
23:36
Speaker 11: it's if it's a commercial group versus a medicare group,
23:39
Speaker 11: those are going to have very different incidences and prevalences,
23:41
Speaker 11: and bringing a new drug onto formula is going to
23:43
Speaker 11: have a very different impact. So having an understanding of
23:46
Speaker 11: the clinical having an understanding of the epidemiology, both of
23:49
Speaker 11: which can be derived from from literature, and that process
23:52
Speaker 11: can be helped with a I. The last piece is economic, right,
23:58
Speaker 11: so you need to know, Okay, we have this great
24:01
Speaker 11: new drug, We're gonna make it available to UH to
24:05
Speaker 11: our members. Ultimately, PBM's health insurance are are businesses and
24:13
Speaker 11: they you know.
24:14
Speaker 10: If they lose money and then they go out of business.
24:17
Speaker 11: So you need to model out how much the adoption
24:21
Speaker 11: that that drug is going to cost, and you know,
24:24
Speaker 11: weigh that against the clinical benefit. So that's the that's
24:27
Speaker 11: the economic component. So number one most important, clinical, epidemiological,
24:32
Speaker 11: and UH and economic all that really goes into the
24:36
Speaker 11: decision of what drug goes on formulay. What are the
24:39
Speaker 11: prior the prior authic conditions for what patients can receive
24:42
Speaker 11: that drug. It's all, it's all, it's all driven from evidence,
24:49
Speaker 11: and there's an increasing volume of evidence. But fortunately that
24:53
Speaker 11: can be synthesized faster than ever, again thanks to thanks
24:56
Speaker 11: to good systems and AI.
24:59
Speaker 4: And and it's the enhancer on top of that expertise
25:04
Speaker 4: that's in place, the person that you helped when you
25:07
Speaker 4: build out the AI model and the AI Assistance tool,
25:11
Speaker 4: Like you said, within fifteen minutes, there the expert. They
25:15
Speaker 4: take that it's Thor's hammer. You know, it's Thor's the
25:19
Speaker 4: god of Thunder. He is what he is with or
25:21
Speaker 4: without his hammer, but with his hammer he's like ten
25:24
Speaker 4: times more powerful.
25:25
Speaker 6: And I look, that's the way I'm looking at AI anymore.
25:29
Speaker 4: There's so many there's continued debate about where it's going,
25:34
Speaker 4: will it take jobs? And I'm like, listen, if you're
25:37
Speaker 4: worried about it taking your job, you're not working hard enough,
25:39
Speaker 4: you're not working strategically enough, you're not working as an
25:43
Speaker 4: expert in something. AI for me as a publicist, as
25:46
Speaker 4: a podcaster, as a content developer, has helped me to
25:50
Speaker 4: refine the expertise that are that are our guests are
25:56
Speaker 4: bringing and what they're saying, and then the show notes
25:59
Speaker 4: and and everything to make sure that what we're putting
26:02
Speaker 4: out as a publication is trusted information in it, and
26:05
Speaker 4: then it's checked. It's double checked to say, hey, is
26:08
Speaker 4: what was said correct? And kind of leads us to
26:11
Speaker 4: why we're partnered with nested knowledge and what we call
26:14
Speaker 4: evidence based podcasting is so that when someone's listening to
26:17
Speaker 4: a podcast on a jog or driving in their car,
26:20
Speaker 4: they don't have to wonder, who are these people talking
26:23
Speaker 4: and what are they saying? You know, is everything that's
26:26
Speaker 4: being said right now? Can I trust it? Or do
26:28
Speaker 4: I have to go read a journal article or do
26:31
Speaker 4: I have.
26:31
Speaker 6: To dive in?
26:32
Speaker 4: And by the way that information is there, nested knowledge
26:35
Speaker 4: has an engine that will pull all of the referenceable data. However,
26:39
Speaker 4: the listener can rest assured that when you're listening to
26:42
Speaker 4: a show that is truly evidence based podcasting that has
26:46
Speaker 4: the certification, it's being driven by the capability to identify
26:51
Speaker 4: patterns maybe errors. And that's the way that AI is
26:55
Speaker 4: driving a formula a situation. It's identifying patterns and medication errors,
27:01
Speaker 4: adverse drug reactions, providing valuable insights to potential maybe a
27:06
Speaker 4: systematic error or systematic issue. And as long as your
27:10
Speaker 4: tools are set and you have the expertise watching and
27:13
Speaker 4: managing it there and lies that the argument back that's
27:18
Speaker 4: saying no, it's not a threat to your jobs and
27:21
Speaker 4: it's not a threat to accuracy as long as your
27:24
Speaker 4: expert is driving the bus.
27:27
Speaker 11: Hey man, I think I think we are the meal
27:29
Speaker 11: there of have an a synthesis I.
27:34
Speaker 10: Couldn't agread more.
27:35
Speaker 11: We've actually seen two competing approaches in AI. For evidence synthesis,
27:43
Speaker 11: which is where you have effectively a chatbot that you
27:50
Speaker 11: put questions and it returns a literature review. I put
27:54
Speaker 11: that in air quotes because I take issue with the
27:58
Speaker 11: use of that.
27:58
Speaker 10: Term there.
28:01
Speaker 11: Versus human in the loop, which is what we are.
28:05
Speaker 11: I think we are the leading human in the loop solution.
28:08
Speaker 11: There's a lot of the literature based chatbots, and it's
28:13
Speaker 11: not that those are useless, it's that for someone who
28:16
Speaker 11: would be listening to your podcast Todd, an expert in
28:19
Speaker 11: the field, it maintaining that human loop is critical because
28:23
Speaker 11: AI hallucinates, it's wrong, it doesn't actually understand things. It's
28:27
Speaker 11: a word calculator. It's it's incredibly useful, but it's a tool.
28:32
Speaker 11: It's a tool, just like you know SEQL databases are
28:37
Speaker 11: a tool. And I would I would even say to
28:42
Speaker 11: your point, like AI's strengths are actually humans weaknesses, and
28:46
Speaker 11: humans weaknesses are AI strengths.
28:48
Speaker 10: So we talk about things like sensitivity.
28:51
Speaker 11: And recall when we're looking at accuracy in a in
28:56
Speaker 11: a evidence of this activity. So if you're a radiologist,
29:00
Speaker 11: sensitivity specificity right, and it turns out that humans are
29:05
Speaker 11: really good at discernment, right, you could call them very discriminating.
29:10
Speaker 11: They're very good at knowing when when records shouldn't go
29:12
Speaker 11: in what is irrelevant. AI is vastly overly inclusive. It
29:17
Speaker 11: just thinks everything is relevant because it's a work calculator.
29:21
Speaker 11: On the other hand, humans miss stuff all the time
29:25
Speaker 11: and AI is very very unlikely to miss stuff. And
29:30
Speaker 11: so if you think about that, if you map those
29:31
Speaker 11: two onto each other, that's actually complimentary. It's good for
29:36
Speaker 11: you know, I mean, the AI is good. It's going
29:38
Speaker 11: to help you not miss stuff. You still have you
29:40
Speaker 11: have to quality because it's going to throw stuff in
29:43
Speaker 11: that's totally irrelevant.
29:45
Speaker 10: But that's that's that's a compliment. That's not a that's
29:48
Speaker 10: not a competition.
29:50
Speaker 4: We're going to have an opportunity to bring more attention
29:54
Speaker 4: to the nested knowledge team and partnering with community long
29:58
Speaker 4: term care, but more specifically specialty pharmacy, where I think
30:02
Speaker 4: there's a lot more secret sauce application. Is there any
30:06
Speaker 4: other Is there any other pitfalls that are are creating
30:11
Speaker 4: obstacles of patient care in specialty space that nested knowledge
30:16
Speaker 4: is truly helping that specialty pharmacy to rise.
30:19
Speaker 10: Wow, that is that is a really good question. I
30:27
Speaker 10: would say it's it's more upstream.
30:28
Speaker 11: I would say, like faster, faster decision making for formulay,
30:33
Speaker 11: faster faster synthesis of evidence to support those those decisions.
30:40
Speaker 11: I don't think we're not really a direct patient care tool.
30:47
Speaker 11: Maybe like awareness, like I said at the beginning, like
30:50
Speaker 11: horizons getting like as new drugs come out, uh PBMs,
30:55
Speaker 11: payers pharmacies can just be aware of what's new to
30:58
Speaker 11: the market in an automated fashion, rather than having to
31:03
Speaker 11: rely on the manufacturers reaching out, having to rely on
31:07
Speaker 11: conventional manual human methods for recalling data.
31:13
Speaker 10: To know what's out there.
31:14
Speaker 4: So yes, but indirectly, well, I want the listeners to
31:20
Speaker 4: take a look at this and you can get started
31:23
Speaker 4: for free if you go to nested dashnoledge dot com.
31:27
Speaker 4: That link will be in our show notes. Another link
31:30
Speaker 4: that's going to be in our show notes is scheduling
31:32
Speaker 4: time with Keith and his team, the Nested Knowledge team
31:36
Speaker 4: at Assembia, just to get some time on the schedule
31:39
Speaker 4: to do a quick fifteen minute review of what you're
31:43
Speaker 4: looking to do, the challenges that you're facing, the definitions
31:47
Speaker 4: that you're trying to clarify, and how to institute artificial
31:51
Speaker 4: intelligence without it having to be a buildout, but something
31:55
Speaker 4: that's going to work day one, that's already been kind
31:58
Speaker 4: of developed by the Nested Knowledge Team team and and
32:02
Speaker 4: really delivering that that powerful tool as an accentuator as
32:06
Speaker 4: as as Thor's hammer of your expertise of a of
32:10
Speaker 4: a specialty pharmacist out there. I'm excited to see you
32:14
Speaker 4: guys again in Vegas. Keith, we have to maybe just
32:18
Speaker 4: get a drink and hang out or something.
32:19
Speaker 6: We're always working. We never just get time to chill out.
32:22
Speaker 10: I enjoyed work.
32:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, me too, we do nerd nerd out on the work.
32:27
Speaker 4: Thank you, Keith, thanks for being on Twitus.
32:29
Speaker 10: Thank you very much. Todd, It's always good to chat.
32:48
Speaker 12: Running a pharmacy means juggling a lot patient care, inventory
32:52
Speaker 12: and now compliance.
32:54
Speaker 10: That's where matar X comes in.
32:55
Speaker 12: Matt X is the online marketplace where independent pharmacies buy
32:59
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33:03
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33:04
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33:09
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33:13
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33:17
Speaker 12: Match our x, where pharmacy meets trust, compliance and opportunity.
33:21
Speaker 10: Visit matchurx dot com to learn more.
33:24
Speaker 13: That's matchrx dot com.
33:49
Speaker 4: Hey, welcome back to Twark's special guests on with Me Today.
33:54
Speaker 4: Vice President of Enterprise Pharmacy Leuan Myers, Welcome to Twerks.
34:00
Speaker 14: Thank you, schen. I appreciate it. It's no pit, but
34:03
Speaker 14: I'm glad to be here.
34:05
Speaker 4: Hey, we have to get what we get, and we're
34:09
Speaker 4: the only talk show. We're the only weekly talk show
34:11
Speaker 4: about the pharmacy profession. So I aspire to bring a
34:16
Speaker 4: lot more attention to what pharmacists are doing. You and
34:19
Speaker 4: I were both just talking in the green room. We
34:22
Speaker 4: say before starting about how pharmacists start getting a lot
34:26
Speaker 4: more recognition than what I remember when I entered pharmacy.
34:30
Speaker 4: Twenty some years ago and the pit which is an
34:34
Speaker 4: amazing program that's they're featuring. We just talked about that
34:37
Speaker 4: last week on Twerks and Technology. Wow, it's so changed.
34:44
Speaker 4: I remember when Sequel server was a big deal and
34:47
Speaker 4: now we're talking about how AI is truly moving the
34:51
Speaker 4: grandest of needles to get things done for our pharmacists,
34:55
Speaker 4: to give them a lot more a lot more time
34:58
Speaker 4: with patients and and you've seen this from a long
35:02
Speaker 4: time coming as well. Give our listeners a short overview
35:06
Speaker 4: of your role with outcomes and what you're excited about.
35:11
Speaker 14: Sure, so yeah, thanks skin tak Luanne Meyers. I'm the
35:14
Speaker 14: VP of Enterprise, so myself and my team we work
35:17
Speaker 14: with the large national chains as well as the regional
35:23
Speaker 14: chains in the health systems. So very excited to be
35:27
Speaker 14: here and do agree with you both as we were talking,
35:30
Speaker 14: and you had a great post the other day about
35:32
Speaker 14: really pushing things like this podcast as well as getting
35:35
Speaker 14: involved with legislation and really advocating for ourselves. So I'm
35:40
Speaker 14: excited about anything where we can put the focus back
35:43
Speaker 14: on the pharmacy and what they're doing in their community.
35:49
Speaker 14: And so that's one of the things I'm super excited
35:51
Speaker 14: about We've got some recent awards that we've put out
35:54
Speaker 14: for our network and some of their clinical.
35:57
Speaker 15: Work with their patients.
35:58
Speaker 14: So those are some of the things, as well as
36:01
Speaker 14: the new technology that's out in the field, and some
36:05
Speaker 14: of the things that we've got upcoming are really excitements
36:08
Speaker 14: that will continue to support who is Outcomes customer, which
36:12
Speaker 14: is the pharmacist.
36:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, the excitement for me is seeing how things are
36:18
Speaker 4: aligning for our pharmacists in all the spaces health systems,
36:21
Speaker 4: specialty or community independent pharmacies. And you and I met
36:27
Speaker 4: several times, but the last time it was a total
36:30
Speaker 4: store expo where our chains are also driving technology and
36:35
Speaker 4: leveraging how to get in front of customers and how
36:39
Speaker 4: to customize therapy and how to just be there. But
36:43
Speaker 4: I was so excited you gave a shout out to
36:45
Speaker 4: the awards because one of our clients, just like Outcomes,
36:49
Speaker 4: will be coming out with a new three part series
36:52
Speaker 4: on the Pharmacy Podcast Network. Cardinal has been one of
36:55
Speaker 4: our clients for a very long time. Matter of fact,
36:58
Speaker 4: they were their first corporate client that joined the network.
37:01
Speaker 4: Realizing that podcasting was completely underutilized in the pharmacy space.
37:07
Speaker 6: Way back in.
37:07
Speaker 4: Twenty eighteen, and they just received the top PSAO a
37:12
Speaker 4: lot from outcomes, So talk to our listeners a little
37:15
Speaker 4: bit about this.
37:16
Speaker 14: Yeah, well, not only did they receive it this year,
37:19
Speaker 14: this is the fifth year in a row that they've
37:22
Speaker 14: been awarded this and not just did they win it
37:24
Speaker 14: again this year, they had a seventeen percent increase in
37:27
Speaker 14: completed services. So thinking again about the PSAO, these are independents,
37:32
Speaker 14: they're in small areas. They may be the only really
37:37
Speaker 14: regular healthcare provider that these patients interact with. And you know,
37:41
Speaker 14: we saw this also with Ingles, also is a repeat
37:46
Speaker 14: year winner. Also focusing in small towns, you know, this
37:51
Speaker 14: means that these organizations are making a measured approach to
37:57
Speaker 14: say this.
37:58
Speaker 15: Is important to us.
37:59
Speaker 14: We're going to consistently provide for our patients and focus
38:02
Speaker 14: on clinical care and patient outcomes. And so you know,
38:05
Speaker 14: I just think about you know, those small towns and
38:08
Speaker 14: those patients. It really means a lot to them, and
38:11
Speaker 14: I just applaud that. And then you know, speaking for
38:14
Speaker 14: some of the larger chains, Albertson's as well has been
38:17
Speaker 14: our top chain ten years.
38:19
Speaker 15: In a row, and that's really just amazing.
38:22
Speaker 14: So those are ones that I think really call out,
38:25
Speaker 14: but there's also you know, some small there's also clinics
38:28
Speaker 14: that we're called, there's also LTCs, and I think those
38:31
Speaker 14: are you know, some new areas, especially for LTC that
38:34
Speaker 14: you know, also have opportunities there. So I think that
38:38
Speaker 14: was really interesting that we're seeing that progress as well.
38:44
Speaker 14: So they just often get the visibility that they deserve
38:48
Speaker 14: really providing these clinical services to the patients, and I think,
38:53
Speaker 14: you know, we want to make sure we're reinvesting kind
38:57
Speaker 14: of the attention back into the pharmacies.
39:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, the attention that we're finally putting on pharmacists pharmacy,
39:06
Speaker 4: and then of course internal to the profession really starting
39:09
Speaker 4: to say here's what's happening in our regional chains or
39:13
Speaker 4: here's what's happening in our independent communities or hospital systems.
39:17
Speaker 4: Going back to the challenge that a chain would have
39:23
Speaker 4: in comparison to a standalone independent is the organization of
39:28
Speaker 4: processes and data and checkups and treatment modality that's driven
39:34
Speaker 4: by a system that can give every single one of
39:37
Speaker 4: those locations the access to the tools and access to
39:41
Speaker 4: the processes. That's why the power of what outcomes has done.
39:45
Speaker 4: You know I remember Outcomes in a different light. I mean,
39:49
Speaker 4: I don't know listeners, if you're listening now, Outcomes dot
39:53
Speaker 4: com by the way, easy to remember. Amazing domain, by
39:55
Speaker 4: the way, I can't believe you guys got that domain,
39:57
Speaker 4: but outcomes dot com. But I remember when Outcomes was
40:01
Speaker 4: originally almost like a workflow system, which really was zero
40:07
Speaker 4: down on into treatment tracking to make sure that you
40:10
Speaker 4: were doing everything that was needed within that specific space,
40:14
Speaker 4: whether it's diabetes or hypertension or whatever it was. But
40:17
Speaker 4: now it's been fused with the entire pharmacy management system
40:22
Speaker 4: where it's inventory and it's it's formulary, and it's treatment
40:27
Speaker 4: tracking and it's the patient's needs. And now it's becoming
40:31
Speaker 4: such a customized platform where if you're a hospital system,
40:35
Speaker 4: you're a regional chain, you're a standalone independent, you're a
40:38
Speaker 4: specialty pharmacy. How is it that there's there's so many
40:42
Speaker 4: pharmacy systems out there. How is it that Outcomes has
40:46
Speaker 4: designed this system over the years to really become kind
40:51
Speaker 4: of an ability to play in all of those sectors.
40:54
Speaker 4: What's your what's your story that you can kind of
40:57
Speaker 4: tell us littlebout Outcomes?
40:59
Speaker 14: Well, I mean we We certainly have you know, services
41:02
Speaker 14: and abilities you know that are elevated for our own
41:09
Speaker 14: platforms RX thirty for sure. But you know, obviously we
41:13
Speaker 14: for the enterprise space that you know, my team supports.
41:15
Speaker 14: You know, they're often on their own proprietary system, and
41:19
Speaker 14: you know, people want to work and be proficient in
41:24
Speaker 14: the space that they're working in. You know, no one
41:26
Speaker 14: wants to do a lot of swivel chair. So I
41:27
Speaker 14: think we've just you know, are prepared to work, you
41:31
Speaker 14: know in where they you know, work most of their time.
41:36
Speaker 15: So we don't want them to you know, really lose
41:39
Speaker 15: out on you.
41:40
Speaker 14: Know, operational friction if you will. So I think that's
41:43
Speaker 14: really where we've you know, set up to be. Where
41:47
Speaker 14: can they be most successful in the environment that they're
41:50
Speaker 14: already at.
41:52
Speaker 16: All.
41:52
Speaker 4: Right, So what is exciting you when it comes to
41:55
Speaker 4: the application, not the confusion big difference between application and
41:59
Speaker 4: can fusion, but the application of artificial intelligence in the
42:03
Speaker 4: space and what space do you see doing the most
42:08
Speaker 4: with artificial intelligence and the pharmacy operations?
42:12
Speaker 14: Well, I think it's kind of funny. I think you
42:14
Speaker 14: need to be thinking selectively about AI. You know what's interesting.
42:19
Speaker 14: We've got a really big release that I think a
42:22
Speaker 14: lot of people would think AI might be the engine between,
42:25
Speaker 14: but we're actually not using AI to it.
42:28
Speaker 8: Now.
42:29
Speaker 14: That's not to say that we don't have lots and
42:31
Speaker 14: lots of things that AI is being used for for
42:34
Speaker 14: other things, but I think, especially when you think about
42:37
Speaker 14: like our sturdy and our independent platform, you know, we
42:40
Speaker 14: need to be good stewards of our customers, both their
42:45
Speaker 14: data and their money quite frankly, and so you know,
42:50
Speaker 14: one thing we're super excited about is automated data entry.
42:54
Speaker 14: And when you think about that, that's something that we
42:56
Speaker 14: hear a lot of flash about like we should be using.
42:58
Speaker 15: AI on that.
43:00
Speaker 14: But tod when you think about automated data entry, most
43:04
Speaker 14: of our prescriptions that come into a pharmacy today probably
43:07
Speaker 14: ninety seven percent of those are E prescriptions, So we
43:10
Speaker 14: already know who the doctor is, who the patient is,
43:15
Speaker 14: and who and what the drug.
43:17
Speaker 15: Is being dispensed.
43:19
Speaker 14: So you can really use a lot of things that
43:21
Speaker 14: you already have today that doesn't need AI. Does it
43:25
Speaker 14: need to go to an outside source and have a
43:27
Speaker 14: learning model where you might risk additional security risks to
43:31
Speaker 14: take that to an outside source, when really that might
43:36
Speaker 14: be something for say the three percent that comes in
43:39
Speaker 14: on a written record, and so that's something that we
43:42
Speaker 14: really look to say. You know a lot of people
43:45
Speaker 14: are talking about AI for this, but where we've seen
43:48
Speaker 14: our competitors that are accounting AI for data entry, you know,
43:52
Speaker 14: we're hearing you know that it's about a forty thousand
43:55
Speaker 14: dollars investment where we're seeing that you know, just having
43:58
Speaker 14: a PMS use the system that they have in place
44:00
Speaker 14: today for that function today, you know, at no added cost.
44:08
Speaker 14: So we want to make sure that our goal is
44:10
Speaker 14: to use technology where appropriate to get back the time
44:14
Speaker 14: uh and again using their financial investment that they've already
44:18
Speaker 14: given to us, and be good stewards of their data
44:21
Speaker 14: and their investment today so they can focus more on
44:24
Speaker 14: patient care. Now that's not to say, you know, AI
44:26
Speaker 14: is certainly applicable where you think thinking about patients calling
44:30
Speaker 14: in and AI UH or voice you know, for where
44:36
Speaker 14: they can say, you know, anything really in that conversation.
44:39
Speaker 14: So I think we need to be thinking about that
44:42
Speaker 14: more creatively and not just thinking about you know what
44:46
Speaker 14: sounds flashy that can be really again thinking about the patient,
44:52
Speaker 14: the patient and the customer's money and using the technology
44:55
Speaker 14: that we have creatively in a way that is respectful
44:58
Speaker 14: of what the investment is as they've already.
45:00
Speaker 15: Paid for.
45:02
Speaker 4: And the modules that outcome have built out and have
45:06
Speaker 4: interconnected with the rest of the system that helped to
45:09
Speaker 4: make more revenue. Are those systems that I want to
45:13
Speaker 4: bring more light to and more much more attracted to.
45:16
Speaker 4: And you know, because the the you know, you could say, hey,
45:20
Speaker 4: I have a pharmacy management system.
45:22
Speaker 6: It's working.
45:22
Speaker 4: I'm always asking the pharmacy operators and the owners. I'm like,
45:25
Speaker 4: but what are those systems helping you to make new
45:29
Speaker 4: revenues and is helping you to position your pharmacy in
45:32
Speaker 4: a different light than another pharmacy as a true healthcare
45:36
Speaker 4: hub where you're doing the vaccine tracking, you're doing pharmacy
45:41
Speaker 4: and giving your patients all of this flexibility of saying, listen,
45:46
Speaker 4: I'm seeing I got to meet you one time in
45:48
Speaker 4: the pharmacy we did kind of like this med review.
45:51
Speaker 4: Now of a sudden, I can actually extend my services
45:53
Speaker 4: if you can't get out of there, if you're home,
45:55
Speaker 4: if you're feeling sick, We're going to meet you where
45:57
Speaker 4: you are also reconciliation and making sure that you're capturing
46:02
Speaker 4: the money that's out there that you should be getting
46:04
Speaker 4: that you're you know, scrambling for to fined and then
46:07
Speaker 4: medical billing. Talk to us about maybe one of those
46:11
Speaker 4: that you're seeing starting to rise the top where it
46:14
Speaker 4: is bringing new revenue opportunities in well.
46:17
Speaker 14: Honestly, Tod, I think you know, there just really isn't
46:19
Speaker 14: one silver bullet for pharmacies anymore, you know it is.
46:24
Speaker 14: You know when you talk about joining, you know, starting
46:27
Speaker 14: this podcast years ago, you know, it used to be
46:29
Speaker 14: so much easier to be profitable.
46:31
Speaker 15: It was like you know, grabbing a fistful of sand
46:33
Speaker 15: and you know you made it.
46:34
Speaker 14: Now we're picking out every grand grain of salt of
46:38
Speaker 14: sand to be profitable. So I think you really have
46:40
Speaker 14: to be thinking about how do I work with employers
46:43
Speaker 14: in my area? You know we're seeing a lot of that.
46:46
Speaker 14: How do I work with clinics. You know, one thing
46:48
Speaker 14: we're seeing certainly a lot, is how do I free
46:51
Speaker 14: up the pharmacy's time to do more clinical work. We
46:56
Speaker 14: need to get them free again, like the automate to
47:00
Speaker 14: automated data entry. You know, we don't need texts to
47:03
Speaker 14: be pushing buttons to fill in the doctor and when
47:06
Speaker 14: we already have the scare strips ID. Same thing with
47:09
Speaker 14: virtual verification on the telepharmacy product. You know, that's something
47:14
Speaker 14: if we can free up you know, forty eight percent
47:17
Speaker 14: of the pharmacist time to be doing those clinical activities,
47:21
Speaker 14: you know, to check blood pressure.
47:23
Speaker 15: They could get forty dollars for.
47:26
Speaker 14: That activity versus walking to get a basket and looking
47:30
Speaker 14: at it, you know physically and stabling. You know, they
47:33
Speaker 14: didn't go to pharmacy school to learn how to stable pages.
47:37
Speaker 9: To a bag.
47:38
Speaker 14: That's not really what they went to school for. Let's
47:40
Speaker 14: have them look work at the top of their license.
47:43
Speaker 14: Those are things that we're seeing really help the margin,
47:47
Speaker 14: if you will, you know, kind of speaking on telepharmacy,
47:51
Speaker 14: I would say another thing that I'm really excited about is,
47:56
Speaker 14: you know, we've been working for a long time here
47:58
Speaker 14: to expand the states that have access to telepharmacy, and
48:04
Speaker 14: you know, we can't do it alone. We have to
48:07
Speaker 14: really rely on the experts in the areas, and we've
48:10
Speaker 14: been we just were speaking with nabp's Presidential Project. That's
48:15
Speaker 14: something they do through their Innovation and Research Institute, and
48:19
Speaker 14: we're very excited to work with them. They have agreed,
48:24
Speaker 14: They've accepted our proposal for their project to help really
48:29
Speaker 14: use data to educate the states that do not allow
48:34
Speaker 14: telepharmacy today to help them really create their own rules
48:39
Speaker 14: so that we can open up those states. I think
48:41
Speaker 14: you know, you're on the website right there. If you
48:44
Speaker 14: looked at the telepharmacy t have and looked at the
48:47
Speaker 14: states that were not open, I think you'd be surprised.
48:50
Speaker 15: A lot of the Northeast is still not open, and
48:52
Speaker 15: there's just.
48:53
Speaker 14: A lot of areas that are still rural that do
48:56
Speaker 14: not have access to telepharmacy. So I mean, I think
49:01
Speaker 14: you know, trivia question to you, do you know when
49:05
Speaker 14: telepharmacy was first allowed in the United States?
49:08
Speaker 15: Like, guests, do you have a guess of what year
49:10
Speaker 15: that was?
49:11
Speaker 6: I'm going to guess it was twenty eighteen.
49:15
Speaker 15: Two thousand and one toly Cow. Yeah, so two thousand
49:19
Speaker 15: and one.
49:19
Speaker 14: North Dakota was the first state to allow it, and
49:23
Speaker 14: you can see it's kind of filled in from North
49:25
Speaker 14: Dkota out.
49:26
Speaker 15: But looking at those Northeast.
49:27
Speaker 14: States, looking at Pennsylvania, I mean, there's a lot of
49:29
Speaker 14: rural areas there that could really benefit from, you know,
49:33
Speaker 14: keeping their community pharmacy up. And every day I hear
49:37
Speaker 14: stories from people saying, you know, I'm going to have
49:40
Speaker 14: to close my pharmacy if I cannot get a telepharmacy up.
49:44
Speaker 14: We heard a story of a family business who he
49:49
Speaker 14: is the second generation his kids that do not want
49:52
Speaker 14: to be a pharmacist. And he said, you know, if
49:54
Speaker 14: I can't get someone in here to be to take
49:57
Speaker 14: over this and it's a small town, you know, going
50:00
Speaker 14: to have to be a tele pharmacy, I will move
50:02
Speaker 14: because I do not want to be the face in
50:05
Speaker 14: the community who close the only pharmacy you know, within
50:09
Speaker 14: seventy miles. I mean, that's that's devastating to hear that.
50:13
Speaker 14: So really excited about NABP working with us to help
50:18
Speaker 14: expand the regulations, you know, to those states that are
50:21
Speaker 14: still kind of holdouts. And I think, you know, two
50:23
Speaker 14: thousand and one, I think it's kind of like AI
50:26
Speaker 14: right now, everybody's talking about it. I think the boards
50:28
Speaker 14: are a little bit concerned, you know, two thousand and
50:31
Speaker 14: one was it? You know, is this going to be
50:32
Speaker 14: skynet pharmacy everywhere? You know, we just need to you know,
50:38
Speaker 14: help with facts in the data. And there's a lot
50:41
Speaker 14: of data North Dakota, Idaho. A lot of these guys
50:44
Speaker 14: put out great data to show that's not the case.
50:46
Speaker 14: It hasn't you know, taken over. It's really been in
50:49
Speaker 14: communities that this is the only way that the community
50:53
Speaker 14: will still keep a pharmacy. I think another thing people
50:56
Speaker 14: don't understand is the US Postal system has closed a
50:59
Speaker 14: lot of regional mail facilities. So even when you are
51:02
Speaker 14: mailing to small communities, what used to take a day
51:06
Speaker 14: to be delivered via mail is now taking almost a
51:09
Speaker 14: week because they are mailing them back out to major
51:12
Speaker 14: cities and back in.
51:14
Speaker 15: So the access that they had to these prescriptions are
51:18
Speaker 15: not like it used to be.
51:19
Speaker 14: So we need to do what we can to keep
51:23
Speaker 14: the access to what maybe we know is the most
51:27
Speaker 14: trusted healthcare profession, but might honestly be the only healthcare
51:31
Speaker 14: profession in their community. So very excited about the help
51:35
Speaker 14: of ANAVP presidential.
51:37
Speaker 6: Project for this. So do want to shout out to
51:41
Speaker 6: the listeners.
51:42
Speaker 4: If you are in a state it doesn't have a
51:47
Speaker 4: telepharmacy ability authorization or there's issues, reach out to the
51:53
Speaker 4: outcomes team ask them what data that you can use
51:56
Speaker 4: to present to your legislators, to your state representatives, just
52:00
Speaker 4: to educate them. Because Mary Lou, I've I've gone to
52:03
Speaker 4: d C with with pharmacists a bunch of times. I've
52:06
Speaker 4: gone to pharmacies where we've invited state representatives in and
52:11
Speaker 4: every time they talk to a pharmacist about an issue,
52:15
Speaker 4: it's the clarification that all the lights go off that
52:18
Speaker 4: they're like, that's what I needed to understand because the
52:21
Speaker 4: PBM reform and telepharmacy and medication management, and it's like,
52:26
Speaker 4: unless you get in front of a representative of state
52:30
Speaker 4: rep and really talk to them and let them know
52:32
Speaker 4: how this is impacting their constituency, it's preventing access to medication,
52:37
Speaker 4: it's hard for them to formulate. I mean, pharmacy isn't
52:39
Speaker 4: a it's not an easy it's not fast food. I
52:42
Speaker 4: mean the commercial you know out there that you're just like, oh,
52:46
Speaker 4: you know, it's mail order and blah blah blah and
52:48
Speaker 4: just and it's like, no, we're not flipping burgers like this.
52:50
Speaker 6: People's lives in health.
52:52
Speaker 4: You need to slow down and we need to we
52:54
Speaker 4: need to think a little bit more personalization and telepharmacy
52:58
Speaker 4: can really fall in line with that.
53:00
Speaker 14: Yeah, and I think back to your original post we
53:03
Speaker 14: were talking about the beginning. I think pharmacy is really
53:07
Speaker 14: good at doing the work. We just have not been
53:10
Speaker 14: great storytellers and really emphasizing what is the impact of
53:15
Speaker 14: either doing or not doing something, And so we have
53:19
Speaker 14: to get involved. We have to push technology, we have
53:23
Speaker 14: to push you know, when there's asking for comments on something,
53:27
Speaker 14: when they're asking for feedback, because someone else will make
53:30
Speaker 14: those roles. So, you know, just like we saw with
53:33
Speaker 14: the utah Ai application for refills, which has left the
53:40
Speaker 14: pharmacist completely out of it. I mean, it's cool that
53:43
Speaker 14: the refill is going to happen, but you kind of think, hey,
53:45
Speaker 14: if we had been involved, would that have come to us?
53:49
Speaker 14: So I think, you know, to your point, you got
53:52
Speaker 14: to get you got to be listening and active in
53:55
Speaker 14: podcasts like these. When you see a post that someone's
53:58
Speaker 14: written that's got something that you're really passionate about, you
54:00
Speaker 14: should also.
54:01
Speaker 15: Be adding comments on there of what you've seen like that.
54:04
Speaker 14: Get involved with your state pharmacy association and to your point,
54:11
Speaker 14: you know, just make your voice hurt because someone else
54:13
Speaker 14: is going to.
54:14
Speaker 15: Make those comments for you.
54:16
Speaker 4: So yeah, exactly, Hey, if you're listening, and you kind
54:20
Speaker 4: of want to want to have a little bit more clarification.
54:22
Speaker 4: You want to connect with lou Ann. She's active on LinkedIn.
54:27
Speaker 4: Reach out to her. Put in Lou and two words
54:30
Speaker 4: lou and then Myers, VP of Enterprise for Outcomes, Leui.
54:36
Speaker 4: And you have to promise that we're going to maybe
54:38
Speaker 4: bring pharmacy operators, someone from the client base and really
54:44
Speaker 4: dig into some of these subjects.
54:45
Speaker 6: I love talking about it.
54:46
Speaker 4: This is my favorite subject, is anything and everything pharmacy
54:50
Speaker 4: and really clarifying it on and what's happening in this
54:54
Speaker 4: week in pharmacy.
54:55
Speaker 15: Yeah, I'd love to you.
54:56
Speaker 14: Yeah, I certainly have some rural pharmacy folks who would
54:59
Speaker 14: love to talk to you, who are kind of fighting
55:01
Speaker 14: this fight right now. You know, I've got somebody in
55:04
Speaker 14: Hawaii if you if you wanted to a remote session.
55:08
Speaker 15: I know that would be a burden to us all
55:10
Speaker 15: to go to Hawaii to uh hear the story. But yeah,
55:14
Speaker 15: same thing. He's got a rural location in Hawaii.
55:17
Speaker 14: He's really struggling to get the board to get caught
55:20
Speaker 14: up that he's going to close the store.
55:22
Speaker 15: But I mean we're hearing it every day that you know,
55:26
Speaker 15: that's the sad truth is we've got to help these folks.
55:28
Speaker 14: You know, it's outside of the products that we're selling,
55:31
Speaker 14: but it's really talking about how do we keep the
55:33
Speaker 14: community open.
55:34
Speaker 4: And accessible exactly. All right, Well, we really appreciate you.
55:40
Speaker 4: Can't wait to see you at the next conference. We're
55:43
Speaker 4: headed to ACEMBIA, We're headed to Idea Share probably maybe
55:51
Speaker 4: Sincora RBC, so yeah, definitely run into you out there
55:56
Speaker 4: and about for sure.
55:57
Speaker 15: Yeah, I know for our the RX thirty update for
56:02
Speaker 15: the automated data entry.
56:04
Speaker 14: They will be showing that at the Wholesaler Summer World tour,
56:07
Speaker 14: so people will be able to see that in person.
56:10
Speaker 4: It's awesome, all right, And if you're listening, hey get
56:13
Speaker 4: a get a demo from this. Just go to outcoms
56:15
Speaker 4: dot com ask for a demo on it. The team
56:18
Speaker 4: will reach out to you and and show you the
56:21
Speaker 4: new features and the r X thirty advancement. That's that's
56:26
Speaker 4: the platform. I remember the first platform I ever learned
56:30
Speaker 4: about in the community space was r X thirty, so
56:33
Speaker 4: it's a there's some legacy there.
56:36
Speaker 15: M hmm.
56:37
Speaker 6: Thanks so much for being on twerks.
56:39
Speaker 15: All right, thanks sat Hey, we'll.
56:41
Speaker 6: Be right back.
57:00
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57:04
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57:53
Speaker 6: Welcome back to works.
57:56
Speaker 4: This has been an exciting episode so far, at least
57:59
Speaker 4: for me. I nerd out so when we're talking about
58:01
Speaker 4: AI and Keith Kalmes has been on several times, I'm
58:07
Speaker 4: glad that you got to listen to what he was
58:09
Speaker 4: talking about in the access of data quicker, as well
58:13
Speaker 4: as the relevance and contextual and some of the new
58:16
Speaker 4: data that's coming.
58:17
Speaker 6: Out based on whatever you're studying.
58:20
Speaker 4: Check them out at nested Knowledge I think it's nested
58:23
Speaker 4: dash knowledge dot com. And once again it's an entire
58:27
Speaker 4: AI system for physicians and pharmacists to quickly access certain
58:31
Speaker 4: information pieces that may maybe around something that you're studying.
58:36
Speaker 4: And it opens up almost every journal that's out there
58:39
Speaker 4: and published and referenceable. So, hey, I'm not sure if
58:44
Speaker 4: you heard this week in pharmacy, there's big news in
58:49
Speaker 4: gene therapy and this comes from Fierce Biotech where Ultrogenics
58:55
Speaker 4: gene therapy hits co primary endpoint in phase three rare
59:00
Speaker 4: Z study, teeing up potential win and this is exciting.
59:05
Speaker 6: Think of this.
59:05
Speaker 4: This is a percentage of patients out there that cannot
59:09
Speaker 4: break down ammonia and this medication is going to enter
59:14
Speaker 4: into a big opportunity for those people suffering with that
59:19
Speaker 4: in eighteen percent lower than place Ebo, a statistically significant
59:23
Speaker 4: result that met one of the trial's co primary endpoints.
59:29
Speaker 4: Ultragenics reported just this week March twelfth, big news.
59:34
Speaker 6: Hey, this is a good time to bring in someone.
59:38
Speaker 4: I'm really excited to get on Twerks have been looking
59:40
Speaker 4: forward to this interview doctor Fran Gregory.
59:44
Speaker 6: Welcome to Twerks.
59:46
Speaker 16: Thank you great to be here.
59:48
Speaker 6: I'm not going to make it twerks, but thank you again,
59:52
Speaker 6: double things. I'm double hey, just for the audience to know.
1:00:00
Speaker 4: Gregory is Cardinal Health's vice president of Emerging Therapies selling
1:00:05
Speaker 4: gene biosimilars. Fran, if you were in pharmacy school, I
1:00:11
Speaker 4: don't want to say way back in the day, but
1:00:13
Speaker 4: I'll just back in the day and you heard that
1:00:18
Speaker 4: there was a pharmacist out there who became a vice
1:00:22
Speaker 4: president of one of the largest wholesalers in the world
1:00:26
Speaker 4: and now leading emerging therapies and selling gene biosimilars, Like,
1:00:31
Speaker 4: your mind would have been like, but what does that
1:00:33
Speaker 4: even mean?
1:00:35
Speaker 16: It truly would have been like what does that even mean?
1:00:37
Speaker 7: Because none of this existed back when I was in
1:00:40
Speaker 7: pharmacy school, and I obviously don't want to age myself
1:00:43
Speaker 7: too terribly much, but these treatments are absolutely, you know,
1:00:50
Speaker 7: life changing for patients and for the healthcare economy. When
1:00:53
Speaker 7: we're talking about biosimilars so and innovative therapies really both
1:00:57
Speaker 7: on the opposite side of the healthcare economy, one being
1:01:00
Speaker 7: extremely costly and one being cost savings. But when I
1:01:03
Speaker 7: was in pharmacy school, you could not have told me
1:01:05
Speaker 7: that my career would have taken this particular path. But
1:01:09
Speaker 7: I think one of the things that is cool about
1:01:12
Speaker 7: being a pharmacist and in healthcare in general, you have
1:01:16
Speaker 7: so many different roads that you can take in this profession.
1:01:20
Speaker 16: And just really thrilled that mine has led me here.
1:01:22
Speaker 7: And I definitely encourage pharmacy students if you're in pharmacy
1:01:26
Speaker 7: school or thinking about it, to think, you know, big picture,
1:01:29
Speaker 7: They're endless opportunities for you, and love love that this
1:01:34
Speaker 7: profession has opened so many doors for so many people.
1:01:37
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I just got back from the Pennsylvania Pharmacists Association's
1:01:41
Speaker 4: annual meeting. Several of the students blew me away with
1:01:47
Speaker 4: what they want to do and to be able to
1:01:51
Speaker 4: even understand what's coming, you know what. The expansion of
1:01:55
Speaker 4: the of the Medical Science Liaison is going to do
1:01:59
Speaker 4: research the application of AI and disease state management. There's
1:02:07
Speaker 4: huge opportunities ultrogenics coming out with that news just this week.
1:02:13
Speaker 4: The expansion of approved therapies one hundred and eighty three
1:02:18
Speaker 4: approved therapies and roughly sixty seven billion in sales by
1:02:24
Speaker 4: twenty thirty. That's right around the corner. It's kind of
1:02:27
Speaker 4: scary Cardinal Health's perspective, How significant is this moment for
1:02:32
Speaker 4: community oncology and especially care providers.
1:02:36
Speaker 7: Well, there was a lot in your question just now,
1:02:39
Speaker 7: but I want to start with the ultrogenics that phase
1:02:41
Speaker 7: three positive readout on their data just recently this week.
1:02:45
Speaker 7: You know, I think any good news in the world
1:02:48
Speaker 7: of sellinging therapy and advanced therapy is extremely exciting. The
1:02:53
Speaker 7: condition that this particular treatment addresses is not something that
1:02:57
Speaker 7: everyone's heard of every day, which is the case in
1:03:00
Speaker 7: any of these treatments that my company focuses on and
1:03:02
Speaker 7: works with daily. So it's really critical that we continue
1:03:06
Speaker 7: to push the science forward to support these manufacturers, which
1:03:09
Speaker 7: is a lot of what I do in my role
1:03:10
Speaker 7: at Cardinal Health is really supporting these manufacturers and bringing
1:03:13
Speaker 7: these products to market and increasing patient access to.
1:03:17
Speaker 16: Them when they're available. So we love seeing this good news.
1:03:21
Speaker 7: We hope that there's always success in sealinging therapies and
1:03:24
Speaker 7: beyond and that ultimately these get two physicians who can
1:03:28
Speaker 7: prescribe them for patients who need them. So what does
1:03:31
Speaker 7: it mean for community oncology providers. What does it mean
1:03:35
Speaker 7: for providers in general? I think that it means we
1:03:39
Speaker 7: all need to do our part to know and understand
1:03:42
Speaker 7: these treatments to be able to identify patients early who
1:03:46
Speaker 7: are candidates for these treatments. And this becomes very close
1:03:50
Speaker 7: to home for patients who are suffering with rare diseases
1:03:52
Speaker 7: and other conditions that could be addressed by these complex therapies.
1:03:57
Speaker 7: So if you think about the pipeline and looking at
1:04:00
Speaker 7: all of the treatments available, you mentioned our analysis on
1:04:04
Speaker 7: the pipeline and hundreds of treatments potentially coming to market,
1:04:10
Speaker 7: very high spend. You mentioned the spend of over sixty
1:04:13
Speaker 7: billion dollars on just these new treatments. We really want
1:04:17
Speaker 7: to make sure that if we're getting these treatments to market,
1:04:21
Speaker 7: and again Cardinal Health supporting these manufacturers step by step
1:04:24
Speaker 7: setting up the processes and the procedures and the logistics
1:04:27
Speaker 7: and the clinical and operational programs to help get them
1:04:31
Speaker 7: to market, that they do reach patients and they get
1:04:34
Speaker 7: to the outcomes that they need. We can't get that
1:04:37
Speaker 7: done in just academic medical centers that are located in
1:04:40
Speaker 7: large city hubs. We've got to get these treatments closer
1:04:43
Speaker 7: to the patients who need them, and we want to
1:04:46
Speaker 7: really work with those community physicians, community nurses and pharmacists
1:04:49
Speaker 7: to help understand the products and be able to identify
1:04:52
Speaker 7: again those patients who are candidates for them, so that
1:04:55
Speaker 7: we can really see that access improve in overall the
1:04:59
Speaker 7: outcome of the patient population to improve alongside.
1:05:03
Speaker 4: So Fran, I'm going to go back to something that
1:05:05
Speaker 4: you just said. I want to dig into this a
1:05:08
Speaker 4: little bit more. The cost variable of what's happening in
1:05:14
Speaker 4: the pharmacy profession, the play tectonics of what's happening in
1:05:19
Speaker 4: PBM reform. It's going to completely change how pharmacists are paid,
1:05:23
Speaker 4: what they're paid for. It's not going to be just
1:05:25
Speaker 4: about dispensing anymore. It's going to be about follow up.
1:05:28
Speaker 4: It's going to be about telehealth, it's going to be
1:05:29
Speaker 4: about disease state management, reporting back to the EHR system,
1:05:35
Speaker 4: or a whole combination of that. So, what role in
1:05:41
Speaker 4: biosimilar specifically in that jigsaw puzzle for lowering costs? What
1:05:46
Speaker 4: role can cardinal play in helping providers to navigate those
1:05:51
Speaker 4: financial and reimbursement complexities.
1:05:54
Speaker 7: So shifting over to similar, So the previous question was
1:05:58
Speaker 7: definitely more along the lines of vative therapies. Just so
1:06:01
Speaker 7: we're grounding our audience now, we're shifting to biosimilars a
1:06:04
Speaker 7: little bit. So biosimilars are kind of the opposite of
1:06:08
Speaker 7: that pendulum where we have advanced therapy, cell therapies, gene
1:06:12
Speaker 7: therapies that are ranging anywhere from five hundred thousand dollars
1:06:15
Speaker 7: up to over four million dollars per treatment.
1:06:19
Speaker 16: On the other side of that, we have biosimilars.
1:06:22
Speaker 7: So biosimilars are kind of really what I see as
1:06:26
Speaker 7: the one significant opportunity to lower healthcare costs and contribute
1:06:30
Speaker 7: to the sustainability of the US healthcare ecosystem.
1:06:34
Speaker 16: So biosimilars are critical.
1:06:37
Speaker 7: I feel biosimilars are financially critical to enable kind of
1:06:40
Speaker 7: that financial space and that financial leverage that we need
1:06:43
Speaker 7: in the healthcare.
1:06:44
Speaker 16: System to show the innovation into.
1:06:49
Speaker 7: To push forward the innovation that we want to see
1:06:51
Speaker 7: on the sealing, gene therapy and advanced therapy side. So
1:06:55
Speaker 7: what are we doing at Cardinal Health to ensure that
1:06:58
Speaker 7: biosimilars are taken up by payers, are utilized by prescribers,
1:07:04
Speaker 7: are accepted by patients. There are a million ways I
1:07:09
Speaker 7: could answer this question because we're involved in so many
1:07:12
Speaker 7: different components in so many different stakeholders along the way
1:07:16
Speaker 7: with biosimilar specifically, but I think the key things that
1:07:19
Speaker 7: we really look at are working with our healthcare providers
1:07:23
Speaker 7: to make sure they understand the value and the benefit
1:07:25
Speaker 7: of biosimilars, to make sure that there are no clinical
1:07:28
Speaker 7: barriers to biosimilars. I think it's been proven with millions
1:07:32
Speaker 7: and millions of patient days treated with biosimilars that there
1:07:36
Speaker 7: are no additional adverse events or other concerns from an
1:07:40
Speaker 7: immunogenicity perspective with biosimilars or with switching, So we want
1:07:45
Speaker 7: to educate and make sure there are no barriers in
1:07:47
Speaker 7: place there for a physician to be able to prescribe
1:07:50
Speaker 7: a biosimilar to a patient. And then, finally, I think
1:07:53
Speaker 7: really important where importantly is where pharmacists come in a
1:07:56
Speaker 7: lot of times we're the ones administering or dispensing that
1:08:00
Speaker 7: that treatment to the patient. We're kind of the end
1:08:03
Speaker 7: of the line. So it's really important that pharmacists are
1:08:05
Speaker 7: educated on biosimilars and understand what they are, what is
1:08:08
Speaker 7: the value, what is the patient value versus what is
1:08:11
Speaker 7: the bigger picture value to the entire US healthcare ecosystem.
1:08:14
Speaker 16: So I think there's a lot there again in your question,
1:08:16
Speaker 16: great questions.
1:08:16
Speaker 7: They're very, very detailed and deep, but it's really, you know,
1:08:21
Speaker 7: our mission in life to make sure are all of
1:08:24
Speaker 7: the providers who access their treatments through cardinal help that
1:08:27
Speaker 7: they have access to a broad spectrum of biosimilars, and
1:08:30
Speaker 7: that what biosimilars they choose work for them financially and
1:08:34
Speaker 7: operationally and fit into their systems.
1:08:37
Speaker 4: The whole kickoff of this in the interest, which is
1:08:39
Speaker 4: why I cram in so much into my questions because
1:08:42
Speaker 4: I don't get enough time with people like you that
1:08:45
Speaker 4: are leading these sectors of pharmacy. These questions are being
1:08:49
Speaker 4: are being pulled from the twenty twenty six Biosimilar Report.
1:08:53
Speaker 4: I'm going to put a link so that the people
1:08:56
Speaker 4: can can go to that landing page and get access
1:08:59
Speaker 4: to that report and kind of something that was also
1:09:02
Speaker 4: mentioned was the infrastructure needed that it will be expanding
1:09:08
Speaker 4: alongside of all of the all of the new therapies
1:09:12
Speaker 4: that are coming out like cold storage and technology and
1:09:16
Speaker 4: distribution models.
1:09:18
Speaker 6: So that's all part of that ecosystem.
1:09:20
Speaker 4: So when I'm thinking of that, how is Cardinal investing
1:09:23
Speaker 4: in these capabilities to support community based treatment settings.
1:09:29
Speaker 7: So I'm going to shift back over to advance therapies,
1:09:32
Speaker 7: sell therapies, gene therapies. These are the treatments that we're
1:09:36
Speaker 7: really looking at as kind of the future of where
1:09:40
Speaker 7: medicine is headed. So Cardinal Health has been invested in
1:09:45
Speaker 7: advanced therapy, selling ging therapies from the very beginning. Twenty
1:09:49
Speaker 7: seventeen was the first cell therapy launch in the world,
1:09:52
Speaker 7: and Cardinal Health was right there with that launch plan
1:09:55
Speaker 7: with that manufacturer launching selling gene therapies alongside, and provide.
1:10:00
Speaker 16: Resources and solutions along the way.
1:10:02
Speaker 7: So what we want to make sure we do within
1:10:06
Speaker 7: Cardinal Health is, you know, the we have the baseline
1:10:09
Speaker 7: services really off the shelf ready to go for these
1:10:13
Speaker 7: manufacturers these days. We have cold chain logistics, We have
1:10:16
Speaker 7: an innovation center where we can store cold chain products
1:10:20
Speaker 7: down to negative one ninety six degree celsius. We have
1:10:24
Speaker 7: cryo storage, We have the availability of logistics and shipping
1:10:30
Speaker 7: resources that can literally get a product to a patient
1:10:34
Speaker 7: within a window of minutes versus hours. So really making
1:10:38
Speaker 7: sure the product gets to that patient gets to that
1:10:40
Speaker 7: provider at the exact right time and the exact right hands,
1:10:43
Speaker 7: so that not a minute is wasted for these patients
1:10:46
Speaker 7: to get the treatments that they need. So we really
1:10:49
Speaker 7: have been again invested in this selling gene therapy space
1:10:53
Speaker 7: from the beginning, and we continue to evolve so so
1:10:56
Speaker 7: very quickly evolving space, and obviously we want to be
1:10:59
Speaker 7: on the very forefront of what we offer as solutions
1:11:02
Speaker 7: to our manufacturers, our physicians, and our patients ultimately, so
1:11:06
Speaker 7: we've also a couple of years ago launched what we
1:11:09
Speaker 7: call Advanced Therapy Connect, which is critical when we start
1:11:13
Speaker 7: thinking about it's an ordering platform for providers to be
1:11:17
Speaker 7: able to go into one place and order any of
1:11:19
Speaker 7: the selingine therapy products that we provide within Cardinal Health,
1:11:23
Speaker 7: which is the majority of them. So this is really
1:11:26
Speaker 7: important not only for those academic medical centers that are
1:11:29
Speaker 7: primarily ordering the majority of these products today, but if
1:11:33
Speaker 7: you think about those treatments making their way to a
1:11:36
Speaker 7: community provider site somewhere at Alabama or Texas or California,
1:11:43
Speaker 7: those providers don't have the operational infrastructure, they might not
1:11:46
Speaker 7: have the financial and the clinical infrastructure set up to
1:11:49
Speaker 7: be able to kind of figure out how to get
1:11:52
Speaker 7: that product order for the patient.
1:11:54
Speaker 16: So we really wanted to make it.
1:11:55
Speaker 7: Incredibly easy for anyone to go in, any provider that
1:11:58
Speaker 7: is servedvied to do so, to go in and order
1:12:01
Speaker 7: a sell or gene therapy product for the patient. Of course,
1:12:04
Speaker 7: that requires infrastructure, the clinical, operational and financial infrastructure.
1:12:09
Speaker 16: We also provide services around.
1:12:11
Speaker 7: Those three key areas for community providers as well, so
1:12:15
Speaker 7: that they can really be confident when they're administering their
1:12:18
Speaker 7: first cell therapy, their first gene therapy, and really advanced
1:12:22
Speaker 7: therapies goes beyond that. We're working with providers on products
1:12:26
Speaker 7: like bispecifics. Some of the other innovation out there is
1:12:30
Speaker 7: inclusive of what we call individualized antigen therapies or i
1:12:34
Speaker 7: T therapies, two more infiltrating lymphosite treatments or tel therapies,
1:12:39
Speaker 7: DNA RNA therapies are all these really cool new novel
1:12:42
Speaker 7: therapies and we really just want to embrace those, help
1:12:46
Speaker 7: the manufacturers, help the providers become educated, and make sure
1:12:49
Speaker 7: that the patients can access those medications.
1:12:51
Speaker 16: Closer to home.
1:12:54
Speaker 4: So a piece of this, once again going back to
1:12:58
Speaker 4: that analogy of a jigsaw puzzle is the changing payment
1:13:02
Speaker 4: models accessibility of bringing costs down. Innovative payment models were
1:13:08
Speaker 4: cited nearly eighty percent of industry respondents as a way
1:13:12
Speaker 4: to improve access and logistics. So when I think of that,
1:13:17
Speaker 4: like what kinds of payment or procurement models, what does
1:13:20
Speaker 4: that mean? What do you think is going to help
1:13:22
Speaker 4: to that of reshape that access.
1:13:25
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think it's really really interesting.
1:13:27
Speaker 7: And when you think about, you know, we are working
1:13:29
Speaker 7: towards getting these treatments closer to patients where they are,
1:13:33
Speaker 7: meaning we're trying to get them more.
1:13:35
Speaker 16: Into community settings.
1:13:37
Speaker 7: And when you think about getting you know, more community
1:13:40
Speaker 7: settings up and scaled to be able to administer these treatments,
1:13:45
Speaker 7: that equates to a higher volume, and higher volume equates
1:13:48
Speaker 7: to higher spend, and then payers start to think, you know,
1:13:52
Speaker 7: this is kind of a lot, and how are we
1:13:54
Speaker 7: going to handle this financially. So some of the solutions
1:13:58
Speaker 7: that are active in the market right now working through
1:14:01
Speaker 7: our manufacturers and you know, tying in payers and really
1:14:05
Speaker 7: thinking about how we make this sustainable long term. And
1:14:08
Speaker 7: there are a few different payment models that have come
1:14:10
Speaker 7: up which I'm sure you've heard of, and we call
1:14:12
Speaker 7: these innovative payment models or outcomes based models, and they
1:14:17
Speaker 7: can be anywhere from you know, basic consignment purchasing, which
1:14:21
Speaker 7: is kind of the easier end of the spectrum, all
1:14:24
Speaker 7: the way through outcomes based contracts where maybe a manufacturer
1:14:28
Speaker 7: is only paid for the treatment if the patient achieves
1:14:31
Speaker 7: a certain outcome er certain clinical milestone. And in between
1:14:35
Speaker 7: there we have payment models such as annuity payment plans
1:14:39
Speaker 7: or payment plans that are that can transfer from one
1:14:43
Speaker 7: payer to the next payer as that patient possibly leaves
1:14:46
Speaker 7: one health insurance system and moves into another one based
1:14:50
Speaker 7: on possibly their employer other status. So there are a
1:14:53
Speaker 7: number of these that have kind of crept up, and
1:14:54
Speaker 7: I think it's very timely. These aren't new, you know,
1:14:57
Speaker 7: we've seen these in the market five ten years ago,
1:15:02
Speaker 7: but it's really important for them to continue to evolve,
1:15:05
Speaker 7: like we're voting in other places, other places in this
1:15:09
Speaker 7: industry evolving so that we can kind of keep up
1:15:12
Speaker 7: with the science and technology.
1:15:13
Speaker 16: As it emerges.
1:15:17
Speaker 4: So once again, going back to this whole bigger industry
1:15:22
Speaker 4: and our profession and the profession within the profession specialty pharmacy,
1:15:27
Speaker 4: within pharmacy, it's it's its own little galaxy in the
1:15:32
Speaker 4: universe and one of the one of the most special
1:15:36
Speaker 4: times of the year is when we all get to
1:15:38
Speaker 4: get to get together at what I call the super
1:15:41
Speaker 4: Bowl of Specialty Pharmacy, which is Access to Pharmacy twenty
1:15:45
Speaker 4: twenty six Assembia, and I want to let the listeners
1:15:50
Speaker 4: know and have some questions for you, but you have
1:15:52
Speaker 4: a special presentation there.
1:15:53
Speaker 6: You're going to be doing a presentation.
1:15:56
Speaker 4: On April twenty ninth at nine am local time the
1:15:59
Speaker 4: evolution of advanced therapies, how specialty pharmacies and community providers
1:16:04
Speaker 4: are improving access to patient care.
1:16:08
Speaker 16: Yeah.
1:16:08
Speaker 7: I'm really excited about this session, and we have a
1:16:10
Speaker 7: great panel. I've got Lee Denny from JNJA and doctor
1:16:13
Speaker 7: Philip Marjon from our own Na Vista Secare organization.
1:16:19
Speaker 16: So we have a topic but I think is very timely.
1:16:23
Speaker 7: We're going to be talking about how community providers are
1:16:26
Speaker 7: really scaling up and stepping up to help, you know,
1:16:31
Speaker 7: help I think in a way enhance innovation opportunities for
1:16:36
Speaker 7: the academic medical centers by taking some of these treatments
1:16:40
Speaker 7: that they're pretty capable of administering by specifics cartes, some
1:16:45
Speaker 7: of the gene therapies and really allowing those academic medical
1:16:49
Speaker 7: centers to then focus on the new innovative, the clinical trials,
1:16:52
Speaker 7: the things that are coming down the pipeline, and then
1:16:54
Speaker 7: kind of, you know, gradually there's this pipeline of things
1:16:57
Speaker 7: coming through the medical academic medical center.
1:16:59
Speaker 16: Moving into the satellite and then moving into the community.
1:17:02
Speaker 7: So kind of that flow of complexity, which really benefits
1:17:07
Speaker 7: providers because they have new treatment options for patients and
1:17:10
Speaker 7: they can keep those patients in their own provider atmosphere.
1:17:16
Speaker 7: And then secondly, it's the best for patients to be
1:17:18
Speaker 7: able to do this. The patients need this care, they
1:17:20
Speaker 7: deserve the best treatment option that's available for them for
1:17:23
Speaker 7: their condition. And then finally, the manufacturers also benefit from
1:17:27
Speaker 7: this because they want to see their products be successful
1:17:29
Speaker 7: when they launch them to market. They're launching them so
1:17:31
Speaker 7: that patients can access them and patients can benefit them.
1:17:35
Speaker 16: So it's really a win win win across the board.
1:17:37
Speaker 7: But I think the real key part is what other
1:17:40
Speaker 7: tools and resources do these providers need to be successful
1:17:45
Speaker 7: in the community, And that's where we're really seeing specialty
1:17:48
Speaker 7: pharmacy step into the picture, because specialty pharmacies can kind
1:17:52
Speaker 7: of manage some of those complexities like the financial piece,
1:17:56
Speaker 7: some of the operational pieces around the prior authors, or
1:18:01
Speaker 7: some of the benefit investigation pieces. So especialty pharmacies are
1:18:04
Speaker 7: really stepping up and taking on a lot of the
1:18:07
Speaker 7: clinical and operational pieces that really enable those community providers
1:18:13
Speaker 7: to just take care of that patient and really worry
1:18:15
Speaker 7: about the clinical components and making sure that that patient's
1:18:18
Speaker 7: receiving the best treatment in the most safe environment. So
1:18:21
Speaker 7: really it is kind of this perfect where the stars
1:18:25
Speaker 7: are aligning perfectly around the patient and all of these
1:18:28
Speaker 7: different pieces are coming into play, and everyone truly is
1:18:31
Speaker 7: stepping up to do their part to help make this happen.
1:18:35
Speaker 4: So with your presentation, excuse me, with your presentation, with
1:18:41
Speaker 4: you probably having one thousand meetings, I always love Assentia
1:18:47
Speaker 4: always teaches me something, and I come off of that,
1:18:51
Speaker 4: come off of that gathering with knowledge, talking with Harry Travis,
1:18:55
Speaker 4: talking with people from Panther out of Pittsburgh or by
1:19:00
Speaker 4: the way, stop, let's stop for a second.
1:19:02
Speaker 6: Let's just clarify this. This is my argument.
1:19:05
Speaker 4: Harry agrees with me. Shout out to Harry Travis, Pittsburgh.
1:19:08
Speaker 4: Pittsburgh is the birth of the expansion and the really
1:19:12
Speaker 4: like the invention of specialty pharmacy.
1:19:14
Speaker 6: Do you agree or disagree?
1:19:16
Speaker 16: I tend to disagree or I tend to agree with
1:19:19
Speaker 16: that comment.
1:19:19
Speaker 7: I've had a lot of discussions on this in my
1:19:23
Speaker 7: past as well. And I will say I learned specialty pharmacy.
1:19:27
Speaker 7: And I'm not going to say what year I learned
1:19:29
Speaker 7: specialty pharmacy, but early on in my career, I definitely
1:19:32
Speaker 7: learned specialty pharmacy from some of those pioneers coming out
1:19:36
Speaker 7: of Pittsburgh. So definitely would have to put my vote
1:19:39
Speaker 7: on Pittsburgh as well.
1:19:41
Speaker 6: All right, back to Semia. You got a lot going on.
1:19:45
Speaker 4: We'd love to catch up with you hopefully and be
1:19:46
Speaker 4: able to come down to the press station in booth.
1:19:49
Speaker 6: However, what do you look forward to?
1:19:51
Speaker 16: What is it?
1:19:52
Speaker 4: What have you heard about percolating that's going to be
1:19:55
Speaker 4: shown or going to be talked about that or a
1:19:57
Speaker 4: session or something that you're like, damn, like, I have
1:19:59
Speaker 4: to go to that one because that was an interest
1:20:01
Speaker 4: to you.
1:20:02
Speaker 7: You know the best thing about Assimbia is it's the
1:20:06
Speaker 7: gathering of the minds. Right you mentioned it's the Super Bowl,
1:20:09
Speaker 7: and I feel like it's you know, everyone that is
1:20:12
Speaker 7: in this industry that wants to be on top of things,
1:20:15
Speaker 7: that wants to know what's going on, that wants to
1:20:17
Speaker 7: make those connections and have those relationships with decision makers
1:20:22
Speaker 7: in this industry are there. And plus it's a lot
1:20:25
Speaker 7: of fun, right, So people actually do have fun at
1:20:27
Speaker 7: this conference, which I love as well. What I am
1:20:32
Speaker 7: looking forward to or what I think I can learn
1:20:34
Speaker 7: this year, I always do try to pick, you know,
1:20:35
Speaker 7: a couple of things that I don't know anything about,
1:20:38
Speaker 7: and try to attend those sessions.
1:20:39
Speaker 16: But I think one of the things that I saw on.
1:20:42
Speaker 7: The agenda that I will try to attend not because
1:20:45
Speaker 7: I don't know about it, but because it's changing so quickly,
1:20:49
Speaker 7: are some of the government affairs government relations focused discussions,
1:20:54
Speaker 7: because I always appreciate different people's opinions on those matters
1:20:57
Speaker 7: and what they kind of see coming. Sure, sometimes that
1:21:01
Speaker 7: differs from industry to industry or from you know, one
1:21:04
Speaker 7: type of company to another.
1:21:05
Speaker 16: So I really always look forward to for this year.
1:21:08
Speaker 7: I'll be looking forward to sitting in on some of
1:21:10
Speaker 7: the sessions and hearing what some different opinions.
1:21:13
Speaker 16: Might might reflect.
1:21:15
Speaker 4: All Right, if you're listening and you want to connect
1:21:19
Speaker 4: with uh with doctor Frank Gregory fran is active on LinkedIn.
1:21:25
Speaker 6: Definitely go out there.
1:21:27
Speaker 4: I'm going to have a link in our show notes
1:21:29
Speaker 4: to your LinkedIn profile friends so people can follow up
1:21:32
Speaker 4: with you.
1:21:33
Speaker 6: Excited to potentially see you.
1:21:35
Speaker 4: I'll talk with your handlers there because you have people
1:21:39
Speaker 4: that probably help with your people. But yeah, I'd love
1:21:45
Speaker 4: to on the show and dig back into you know,
1:21:50
Speaker 4: the and and there me making the mistake, the non
1:21:54
Speaker 4: pharmacist mistake between the difference between the biosimilar and selling
1:21:59
Speaker 4: gene therapy and how the universes. But then again, there's
1:22:03
Speaker 4: like some overlap of information, so I definitely want to
1:22:06
Speaker 4: learn more. I'm sure our listeners would very much like
1:22:09
Speaker 4: to reach out and learn more as well. But I
1:22:11
Speaker 4: really appreciate you being on TRUXS today.
1:22:13
Speaker 16: I appreciate it. This was always fun. To really appreciate
1:22:16
Speaker 16: talking to you again.
1:22:17
Speaker 6: Hey, that's it for TRUCKS.
1:22:25
Speaker 1: Healthcare is entering a new era of treatment innovation. Advanced therapies,
1:22:29
Speaker 1: including car TE and other celling gene therapies are transforming
1:22:33
Speaker 1: how serious diseases are treated, and the pipeline continues to
1:22:37
Speaker 1: grow rapidly. In fact, industry projection suggests that by twenty thirty,
1:22:42
Speaker 1: we could see more than one hundred and eighty approved
1:22:44
Speaker 1: advanced therapies generating nearly sixty seven billion dollars in annual sales.
1:22:49
Speaker 1: But with these breakthroughs comes a new challenge making sure
1:22:53
Speaker 1: patients can actually access these life changing therapies. That's where
1:22:57
Speaker 1: Cardinal Health is helping lead the ways.
1:23:00
Speaker 6: The healthcare ecosystem.
1:23:01
Speaker 3: There is a growing shift to bring advanced therapies into
1:23:03
Speaker 3: community care settings, allowing patients to receive cutting edge treatments
1:23:07
Speaker 3: closer to home while improving care coordination and outcomes. Cardinal
1:23:11
Speaker 3: Health is working with providers, pharmaceutical manufacturers, and care networks
1:23:15
Speaker 3: to help make this transition possible. Through investments in cold
1:23:18
Speaker 3: chain infrastructure, technology, enablement, distribution models, and clinical support resources,
1:23:24
Speaker 3: Cardinal Health is helping community practices prepare for the complex, clinical, operational,
1:23:29
Speaker 3: and economic demands of advanced therapies.
1:23:32
Speaker 1: The goal is simple, expand access support providers and ensure
1:23:36
Speaker 1: patients can benefit from the most innovative therapies available without
1:23:40
Speaker 1: unnecessary barriers. To learn more about how Cardinal Health is
1:23:43
Speaker 1: supporting the future of advanced therapies and community care, visit
1:23:47
Speaker 1: cardinalhealth dot com,