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SMNTY Classics: Circe · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.
0:07
Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I never told you productuly iHeartRadio.
0:18
Speaker 3: I try not to do this too often where we
0:20
Speaker 3: bring back a ton of classics on entertainment because it
0:24
Speaker 3: feels like we're sort of shifting what the podcast is
0:28
Speaker 3: just being.
0:29
Speaker 2: An entertainment podcast.
0:30
Speaker 3: But there's just a lot of stuff going on right
0:32
Speaker 3: now in the world of entertainment. So I thought I
0:34
Speaker 3: would bring back this one. This book club we did
0:36
Speaker 3: on Circe Who if you don't remember, and the book
0:42
Speaker 3: is Turns Turns Men into Pigs.
0:47
Speaker 2: Yes it was.
0:49
Speaker 3: I remember it being a really fun read, but it
0:52
Speaker 3: was a longer, a longer book than what we normally choose.
0:57
Speaker 3: But I thought i'd bring it back because the Odyssey
1:00
Speaker 3: in theaters right now, and there is so much discussion
1:06
Speaker 3: about the depiction of women in it, but and seriously
1:10
Speaker 3: is one of the big ones because they kind of
1:13
Speaker 3: from what I understand, I haven't seen it, but I
1:16
Speaker 3: believe she's more in line with this depiction as sort
1:21
Speaker 3: of the vengeful witch as opposed to how she.
1:26
Speaker 2: Was in the original Odyssey.
1:28
Speaker 3: Of that being said, as we know of as a
1:30
Speaker 3: lot of us I've seen well a lot of talk
1:33
Speaker 3: about what particular.
1:37
Speaker 2: Version of the Odyssey you're reading.
1:41
Speaker 3: Because people translate it in different ways. So I just
1:45
Speaker 3: thought this would be an interesting one to bring back
1:48
Speaker 3: as all of that discussion is happening. Please enjoy this
1:51
Speaker 3: classic episode.
1:58
Speaker 2: Hey, this is Annymantha, and welcome to stuff. But I've
2:01
Speaker 2: never told your protection of iHeartRadio.
2:13
Speaker 3: It is time for our first book club of twenty
2:17
Speaker 3: twenty one, and my question today for you, Samantha is
2:22
Speaker 3: were you into Greek mythology I.
2:25
Speaker 2: Was a kid.
2:25
Speaker 4: I was.
2:26
Speaker 1: I really was really big into all of that. I
2:30
Speaker 1: had the encyclopedia stuff, you know how they had the
2:33
Speaker 1: story version of all of that. Oh, and I would
2:37
Speaker 1: read those all the times growing up. Of course, I've
2:40
Speaker 1: kind of forgotten them since then, so I kind of
2:43
Speaker 1: confused the names because there are similar stories obviously with
2:46
Speaker 1: different names. So I have a moment of like who.
2:50
Speaker 1: But I did really enjoy it. As in fact, recently
2:53
Speaker 1: which I love to see, we saw pretty much a
2:56
Speaker 1: battle of Xena Warrior Princess versus Hercules, and I'm pretty
3:00
Speaker 1: sure seen I want slash Lucy Lawless in.
3:03
Speaker 5: Their Twitter fight.
3:04
Speaker 1: So I just want to put that out there.
3:08
Speaker 2: You gotta put that out there.
3:09
Speaker 5: I'm just gonna put that.
3:10
Speaker 3: What do you think, Well, if you had been a
3:12
Speaker 3: goddess would have been the goddess.
3:15
Speaker 1: Of uh, some type of mischieff probably like I definitely
3:19
Speaker 1: would not have been like the beauty or the loved one.
3:21
Speaker 1: It's definitely as to cost some kind of mayhem every
3:24
Speaker 1: now and again. Like I'm I'm absolutely sure how you
3:28
Speaker 1: have put my dog Peaches in your dn D as
3:32
Speaker 1: the mischievous, kind hearted but really disastrous uh character in
3:38
Speaker 1: your thing. I'm pretty sure I would be somewhere along
3:39
Speaker 1: those lines, which is why I love it.
3:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that. I could see you that
3:47
Speaker 2: for sure.
3:51
Speaker 1: Because of course nothing really mean.
3:53
Speaker 3: Spirited, right Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Yeah,
4:01
Speaker 3: I was. I was huge into Greek mythology. I also
4:03
Speaker 3: had those uh like books with the like images and
4:07
Speaker 3: I would trace them out and paint them and I'd
4:09
Speaker 3: hang them on my wall.
4:10
Speaker 2: That was the kind of kid I was.
4:12
Speaker 3: Y And then I loved this show called Young Hercules,
4:18
Speaker 3: which I'll said it before. I was on the Ryan
4:21
Speaker 3: Gosling train before anyone else, because I was a nine
4:23
Speaker 3: year old writing him a very very embarrassing fan letter
4:25
Speaker 3: that I hope never made it to him, so that
4:29
Speaker 3: the eyes were dotted with heart, Samantha. It was a disgrace.
4:35
Speaker 2: But you can't get that show anywhere. And I taped
4:37
Speaker 2: them all like I would get it came on at
4:38
Speaker 2: three pm, I'd.
4:39
Speaker 3: Like run in and tape them. And so now I'm like,
4:42
Speaker 3: could I like turn to profit? Could I upload these?
4:46
Speaker 3: Because I got all taped.
4:48
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, daddy withheld, because you know, not
4:50
Speaker 1: all VHS's are in a great condition for viewing.
4:54
Speaker 2: Well.
4:55
Speaker 1: I did.
4:56
Speaker 3: The most recent time I watched them was in college,
4:58
Speaker 3: and there was some they were still you know, skipping around,
5:03
Speaker 3: and the commercials are still there obviously, but sometimes I
5:06
Speaker 3: would like fast forward through them, you know, and it
5:07
Speaker 3: would record that, Uh, it's all a pretty good shape.
5:12
Speaker 3: I don't have a VCR anymore, though, so I can't
5:14
Speaker 3: test it. Yeah, this is the issue.
5:17
Speaker 1: You need to get. Well, we need a VCR obviously. Yeah.
5:20
Speaker 1: I'm having flashbacks of me doing the same thing. I
5:22
Speaker 1: think I did that with Green and of Green Gables,
5:24
Speaker 1: except it wasn't commercials. It was just a long winded GPB.
5:29
Speaker 1: Here in the Georgia, they're fundraising because it's one of
5:32
Speaker 1: the only say it and I would pause, try and
5:35
Speaker 1: make it the perfect succinct movie.
5:40
Speaker 5: I failed. I'm pretty sure.
5:44
Speaker 2: I love it. I did that stuff to it. All
5:46
Speaker 2: of our young girl listeners are like.
5:47
Speaker 5: What you no, don't worry about it.
5:51
Speaker 1: As a kid, we rented our VCR from the Curtis Mathis.
5:54
Speaker 5: That's how old I am.
5:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:00
Speaker 3: I've been rewatching some old Seinfeld episodes and it's been
6:04
Speaker 3: the technology it has been given me a chuckle.
6:08
Speaker 2: But okay.
6:08
Speaker 3: Today we were talking about Madeline Miller's twenty eighteen novel Circe,
6:13
Speaker 3: which a few of you have recommended, and I actually
6:16
Speaker 3: I really really enjoyed it, so thank you for the recommendation.
6:19
Speaker 3: And this is a follow up to her previous book,
6:22
Speaker 3: The Song of Achilles, and she like knows her stuff.
6:25
Speaker 2: She has an ma in classic, so uh.
6:29
Speaker 3: The book gives the witch from the Greek myth the
6:32
Speaker 3: Odyssey Circe, a backstory that spans for thousands of years.
6:37
Speaker 3: And it was really fun for me because I've obviously,
6:39
Speaker 3: I imagine like most of us, I've read the Odyssey,
6:42
Speaker 3: but it was a long time ago, so like I
6:45
Speaker 3: would say, I recognize like half the.
6:47
Speaker 2: Characters, but I knew all of them.
6:48
Speaker 3: I was like, I know, I don't get the power
6:51
Speaker 3: of this moment, but I know that you're a character,
6:54
Speaker 3: and I should.
6:54
Speaker 1: Know what this means. Yep, feel the same way.
6:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, And Miller said she got the idea because as
7:02
Speaker 3: a kid she heard about like this witch you could
7:05
Speaker 3: turn men into pigs, and she was so excited to
7:08
Speaker 3: read it, and then the Odyssey it's like fifteen lines
7:10
Speaker 3: and she was so disappointed.
7:12
Speaker 2: So she was like, I'm going to give her a story.
7:14
Speaker 3: And yeah, if you need a reminder, that is Cyrus's
7:17
Speaker 3: role in the Odyssey. She was this witch that turned
7:22
Speaker 3: Odysseus's men into pigs. But he challenged her and kind
7:26
Speaker 3: of tricked her with hermes, and she changed them back.
7:29
Speaker 3: And then her and Odysseus become lovers for a while,
7:33
Speaker 3: and then she helps them when they leave. Oh and
7:37
Speaker 3: probably quick disclaimer, we did look up the Greek pronunciations
7:40
Speaker 3: for things, but it might be a bit.
7:42
Speaker 2: Of a mess and apologies in her vasis.
7:46
Speaker 3: So Miller's work in this book flushes out Circe's story,
7:49
Speaker 3: everything that brings her to that moment in the Odyssey
7:53
Speaker 3: and carries her after it, and it reimagines many of
7:57
Speaker 3: these heroic acts that we've heard in Greek mythology as
8:01
Speaker 3: orchestrations of Circe or like Circe had something to do
8:05
Speaker 3: with it. And this character is long inspired writers from
8:08
Speaker 3: Ovid to James Joyce to Margaret Atwood. Which is actually
8:12
Speaker 3: a theme in this story that that the men of
8:18
Speaker 3: these Greek myths told these stories. They they made themselves
8:22
Speaker 3: heroes in them, and then it was men who passed
8:24
Speaker 3: those stories on and because of that they were these
8:28
Speaker 3: men were painted as heroes when more often than not,
8:30
Speaker 3: you're kind of like, well, it seems like the lady
8:32
Speaker 3: here or.
8:34
Speaker 1: You have saved your life or sacrifice herself for you,
8:38
Speaker 1: so that seems.
8:40
Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, maybe you should mention that, I don't know.
8:45
Speaker 3: And yeah, there are a lot of cameos from famous
8:47
Speaker 3: Greek mythological characters like Daedalus, Icarus, Jason, Odsius, Hermes, Artemis, Achilles, Paris, Helen, Apollo, Agamemnon, Athena.
8:57
Speaker 2: Just it was a delight.
9:00
Speaker 3: And this book Ads of Now is getting an eight
9:02
Speaker 3: part HBO mini series anyway.
9:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we wanted to start with obviously the plot,
9:09
Speaker 1: so the story follows, circe a nymph, or uprised nymphs
9:13
Speaker 1: were called, but that is not really how the world
9:15
Speaker 1: saw us. We are an endless feast laid out upon
9:18
Speaker 1: a table, beautiful and renewing, and so very bad at
9:21
Speaker 1: getting away, great lines.
9:24
Speaker 5: So very bad at getting away. Just a little bit
9:27
Speaker 5: of almost.
9:28
Speaker 1: And she is the daughter of the god of the
9:30
Speaker 1: Sun and one of the most powerful titans, Helios and
9:33
Speaker 1: the nymph Percy. She is a witch who can use
9:35
Speaker 1: plants and words to cast spells. Her family is not
9:40
Speaker 1: kind to her. They treat her as a lesser. They
9:43
Speaker 1: describe her voice as frail, the voice of the mortal,
9:46
Speaker 1: obviously that she's weak and the weakest of the circles.
9:49
Speaker 1: She's not as beautiful, so therefore she's completely cast aside.
9:54
Speaker 1: Circey is one of many of Helio's children, including her
9:57
Speaker 1: cruel sister Passafehi and her brother and the younger brother
10:01
Speaker 1: that she helped raise eighties. Her family is not kinder,
10:05
Speaker 1: like we said before, and at one point Helios, her
10:07
Speaker 1: father burns her in punishment, and throughout the book we
10:10
Speaker 1: see most we see multiple instances of their cruelty uh
10:14
Speaker 1: and their desire for power.
10:17
Speaker 2: I still love it.
10:18
Speaker 3: I love Pacifa sounds like being pacified, and she's like
10:21
Speaker 3: the officer of us. And in early formative memory, seriously
10:30
Speaker 3: meets Prometheus just after he has disobeyed Zeus by helping
10:33
Speaker 3: mortals by showing them fire. So it's the night before
10:36
Speaker 3: he is to begin his sentence, chained to a rock
10:38
Speaker 3: for all eternity, each day his liver devoured by an eagle,
10:42
Speaker 3: only for the liver to regenerate overnight and the whole
10:45
Speaker 3: process to start all over again, which sounds absolutely miserable.
10:49
Speaker 3: Seriously witnesses him being whipped, and after everyone else leaves,
10:52
Speaker 3: including the furies, who also make a cameo, Uh, seriously
10:55
Speaker 3: brings him nectar even though it is forbidden, and the
10:59
Speaker 3: two have this six change you aided mortals. I said,
11:02
Speaker 3: that is why you are punished. It is Will you
11:05
Speaker 3: tell me what is a mortal?
11:06
Speaker 1: Like?
11:07
Speaker 3: It was a child's question, but he nodded gravely. There
11:09
Speaker 3: is no single answer. They are each different. The only
11:12
Speaker 3: thing they share is death. You know the word, I
11:15
Speaker 3: know it, I said, but I do not understand. No
11:18
Speaker 3: God can their bodies crumble and pass into earth? Their
11:21
Speaker 3: souls turn to cold smoke and fly to the underworld.
11:24
Speaker 3: There they eat nothing and drink nothing, and feel no warmth.
11:27
Speaker 3: Everything they reach for slips from their grasp. A chill
11:29
Speaker 3: shivered across my skin? How do they bear it? As
11:32
Speaker 3: best they can?
11:33
Speaker 1: As best they can? So. While Circe is not powerful
11:37
Speaker 1: in the traditional goddess sense, she discovers she has a
11:40
Speaker 1: talent for witchcraft, which we all love. And this is
11:43
Speaker 1: something she discovers in the Mortal Realm, where she falls
11:46
Speaker 1: in love with a young fisherman named Glaucos. She uses
11:50
Speaker 1: her magic to turn them into a god, but finds
11:52
Speaker 1: that becoming god has made him shallow and cruel. Surprise, surprise,
11:56
Speaker 1: he shows Sarce no gratitude and pretty much tosses her
11:59
Speaker 1: away she uses to give her any attention. She also
12:02
Speaker 1: uses her magic to transform a nymph and a romantic
12:05
Speaker 1: rival for Glaucos, named Scilla, into a monster to match
12:09
Speaker 1: her inner personality. Well damn, Silla becomes a behemoth twelve
12:14
Speaker 1: tentacles and six mouths, guarding a straight in the ocean,
12:17
Speaker 1: taking six or twelve men from any boat that tends passage.
12:21
Speaker 1: This is something that haunts Cerce over the years. The
12:24
Speaker 1: death of the mortals caused by circe spells and the
12:27
Speaker 1: mindless monster. She's reduced Scilla too.
12:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Silla was I forgot about Scilla so that
12:33
Speaker 3: I had to look up, Like, yeah, it's the backstory there.
12:37
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie because when I read, I just
12:39
Speaker 1: move on. I kind of didn't give us like a
12:41
Speaker 1: chick glance other than okay, great monster character next.
12:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I love this. I love the story behind it.
12:48
Speaker 3: Zeus feels threatened by Circe's power like King of the
12:52
Speaker 3: Gods is like.
12:52
Speaker 2: No lady could have this power?
12:55
Speaker 3: Uh, and commands her father to exile her. Of course
12:57
Speaker 3: he does, so he does to a small ice slated
13:00
Speaker 3: island named Aya. So I couldn't find a pronization for that.
13:03
Speaker 3: That's just get I like it on my part, so
13:07
Speaker 3: apologies if I'm way off.
13:11
Speaker 1: Here.
13:12
Speaker 3: Circe tames animals like lions and wolves. She grows plants
13:15
Speaker 3: and herbs. She works on her magic. She learns how
13:18
Speaker 3: to be independent, to braid her hair back and tie
13:21
Speaker 3: her skirts up so they wouldn't catch on twigs. She
13:23
Speaker 3: like learns how to carve and so and all kinds
13:26
Speaker 3: of things. While there, she encounters many famous figures from
13:32
Speaker 3: Greek mythology. One of the first to appear is Dadalus,
13:36
Speaker 3: who arrives via boat to summon her to attend to
13:38
Speaker 3: her sister's birth, and Circe is furious about this, but
13:43
Speaker 3: also wants to take the rare chance to break her exile,
13:45
Speaker 3: as first she knows it could be here her only chance.
13:48
Speaker 3: This journey, of course, required that they pass Silah. Dadalus's
13:53
Speaker 3: crew had already lost men on the way to the island,
13:57
Speaker 3: but with magic and with her wit is able to
14:00
Speaker 3: protect the rest of the career. This is also something
14:02
Speaker 3: that really annoys Sircey because she feels like her sister
14:06
Speaker 3: totally did that on purpose, that they had to go
14:08
Speaker 3: that way and sent the boat that way because she knew, like,
14:11
Speaker 3: you created this monster, here you go. So when they arrive,
14:16
Speaker 3: Circe learns that her sister, who is married to Minos,
14:19
Speaker 3: the king of Crete, has sired a monster with one
14:22
Speaker 3: of her and Circe's father's sacred white bulls. With Circe's help,
14:28
Speaker 3: she gives birth to the minotaur. Circe has a heated
14:33
Speaker 3: confrontation with her sister where sister lays bare how she
14:36
Speaker 3: sees the world and the golden cages of men that
14:39
Speaker 3: they both inhabit, the horrors and injustices they both had
14:43
Speaker 3: to navigate because of the men in their lives, and
14:45
Speaker 3: how she thought she and Sarce were alike, and how
14:47
Speaker 3: she was disappointed actually that they weren't close there as children,
14:51
Speaker 3: which I really loved that whole exchange and the argument
14:55
Speaker 3: shakes CIRs like the fact that her sister says that
14:59
Speaker 3: they have something in is like, oh.
15:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is that I don't like this. So Circe
15:04
Speaker 1: learns that Daedalus and his son Chris are in prison.
15:07
Speaker 1: In Daedalus and Sarce have sex, obviously, with Circe's help,
15:12
Speaker 1: he builds a mazed to trap the Minotaur, a creature
15:14
Speaker 1: meant to frighten the citizens of Crete and keep them
15:17
Speaker 1: under control. Now, Daedalus also gives Sarce with a beautiful
15:20
Speaker 1: loom that she takes with her back to her island,
15:23
Speaker 1: and later Circe learns that Icris died during their escape attempt,
15:26
Speaker 1: flying too close to the sun and destroying his wings,
15:30
Speaker 1: and Daedalus dies soon after from heartbreak.
15:34
Speaker 3: Supposedly, yeah, one of the next people to visit her
15:39
Speaker 3: island is Medea, her brother i e T's daughter, and
15:43
Speaker 3: her husband Jason. Medea begs Circe for a ritual to
15:47
Speaker 3: wash them clean of blood and crime, and they kind
15:48
Speaker 3: of do this before revealing who they are, so Circe does,
15:52
Speaker 3: but she learns the story of what brought them there,
15:55
Speaker 3: that in order to protect Jason, Medea had helped him
15:58
Speaker 3: accomplish several including stealing the Golden fleece, and as they
16:03
Speaker 3: fled her very angry father, she dismembered her brother and
16:08
Speaker 3: tossed him into the sea, knowing her father would have
16:11
Speaker 3: to stop in his pursuit to perform the rites for.
16:15
Speaker 2: Her deceased brother.
16:18
Speaker 3: Searcy tries to convince Medea that Jason Is people will
16:21
Speaker 3: not welcome her, that she will regret going with them,
16:25
Speaker 3: that Medea should stay with her, but Medea lais and
16:29
Speaker 3: to Circe, essentially calling her lonely and pathetic and trapped.
16:32
Speaker 3: Desperately trying to keep Medea trapped next to her. She
16:37
Speaker 3: also reveals the depth of it ET's cruelty, perhaps the
16:40
Speaker 3: only family member Sercey had a close relation to at
16:44
Speaker 3: one time, telling Circe that he hates women. Medea leaves
16:49
Speaker 3: with Jason the next day, and later Circe finds out
16:53
Speaker 3: that an enraged Medea killed her and Jason's children after
16:57
Speaker 3: Jason betrayed her, unwilling to let any one have them
17:00
Speaker 3: but her, and then returned to the realm of the gods.
17:05
Speaker 4: Uh yeah she lived along then Yeah yeah who uh
17:14
Speaker 4: And during all of this, by the way, Circe learned
17:17
Speaker 4: most of this information from Hermes, whom she had an
17:20
Speaker 4: on and off affair with for over one hundred years,
17:22
Speaker 4: So like she would learn about Daedalus from him or
17:26
Speaker 4: Medea from him.
17:27
Speaker 1: Uh.
17:27
Speaker 3: But he treated her like a game and she grew
17:30
Speaker 3: to detest him before ending.
17:33
Speaker 1: Mean, she didn't really like him either, but yeah, they didn't.
17:36
Speaker 2: Seem to like each other. It was just sort of
17:38
Speaker 2: a thing that.
17:39
Speaker 1: You're here, I'm here, okay, okay. Sure. So Circe's cut
17:45
Speaker 1: by Media's words, and she starts to open her island
17:47
Speaker 1: to lost sailors looking for food and rests. On one
17:51
Speaker 1: such occasion, the captain rapes her when he finds out
17:54
Speaker 1: she's alone on the island, and before the other men
17:56
Speaker 1: can do likewise, she kills the captain and turns the
17:59
Speaker 1: rest into pigs. She is so consumed with rage and vengeance,
18:03
Speaker 1: she turns any man who comes her island into a pig.
18:08
Speaker 3: Yes, so here we arrive at the big Odyssey.
18:12
Speaker 2: Yes, turning them into pigs thing.
18:14
Speaker 3: So this doesn't change her turning men who visit her
18:17
Speaker 3: island at the pigs until the arrival of Odysseus after
18:20
Speaker 3: Circe transformed his crew into pigs. Odysseus arrives, and he
18:24
Speaker 3: convinces her to transform his men back and allow them
18:27
Speaker 3: to stay for several months. Listening to that without reading
18:32
Speaker 3: the book, you might be like, but hell though, But
18:34
Speaker 3: then they kind of like immediately hit it off and
18:36
Speaker 3: had a conversation about it. So Circe and Odysseus become lovers,
18:42
Speaker 3: and he keeps lengthening his stay longer and longer, like
18:44
Speaker 3: maybe I'll just stay another month, maybe I'll stay in
18:46
Speaker 3: the winter.
18:46
Speaker 2: I don't know.
18:48
Speaker 3: And this is despite the fact that Odysseus is, in
18:50
Speaker 3: his words, happily married and the father to a son
18:53
Speaker 3: he hasn't seen in many years, and he speaks.
18:56
Speaker 2: Fondly of them.
18:59
Speaker 3: Eventually, Apolo gives Circe a prophecy about Odysseus, but grudgingly
19:03
Speaker 3: she shares it with him, and he and his men
19:05
Speaker 3: return home, and just as he's leaving, ciriusly realizes she
19:10
Speaker 3: is pregnant with his child old Row. Yeah, here's what CEUs,
19:14
Speaker 3: he thinks when she hears the stories and poems of
19:16
Speaker 3: her meeting with Odysseus later quote, I was not surprised
19:20
Speaker 3: by the portrait of myself the proud, which undone before
19:23
Speaker 3: the hero's sword, kneeling and begging for mercy. Humbling women
19:26
Speaker 3: seems to me a chief pastime for poets, as if
19:29
Speaker 3: there can be no story unless we crawl and weep.
19:32
Speaker 1: That speaks volumes, and the experience of giving birth is tumultuous.
19:38
Speaker 1: Is a tumultuous one that circe undertakes alone, and when
19:43
Speaker 1: she realizes something is preventing her child from being born,
19:45
Speaker 1: she cuts it from her stomach usual magic. She learns
19:49
Speaker 1: that the godess Athena is determined to kill her son
19:51
Speaker 1: Telegonus to prevent something he does in the future. Sarcey
19:55
Speaker 1: does not back down and instead uses extremely powerful and
19:59
Speaker 1: taxing magic toward the island so that no god or
20:02
Speaker 1: goddess can set foot on her island.
20:05
Speaker 3: Right and raising Telegonis proves to be a very arduous task.
20:10
Speaker 3: He is an angry, difficult child that shapes at her
20:13
Speaker 3: protection like he's always trying to run away and she's
20:15
Speaker 3: always like, oh, you're staying right here by my side, never,
20:19
Speaker 3: and he's constantly looking to the horizon for adventure. As
20:23
Speaker 3: he grows a little older, he does he mellows out.
20:25
Speaker 3: He becomes a sweet, curious child, but there's still that
20:28
Speaker 3: thirst to go to go somewhere, and Circe tells him
20:33
Speaker 3: these really sanitized tales of his father's adventures, which he
20:37
Speaker 3: just eats up and anything that isn't flattering, even in
20:41
Speaker 3: the slightest bit. He corrects her, telling her his father
20:44
Speaker 3: was noble and.
20:45
Speaker 2: Or heroic, he could never do anything wrong.
20:49
Speaker 3: When he's fifteen, Circe learns that, with the help of Hermes,
20:53
Speaker 3: which she's not happy about it at all, Telegonis has
20:57
Speaker 3: been constructing a boat in order to sail to the
20:59
Speaker 3: Kingdom of the Cut to meet his father Odysseus.
21:03
Speaker 2: Circe tries very hard.
21:04
Speaker 3: Convince him not to, reminding him of Athena's determination to
21:08
Speaker 3: kill him that he'll be leaving the protection of the island,
21:13
Speaker 3: but despite her terror, Telegonus is determined and naive, so
21:18
Speaker 3: she weaves spells around and protection spells, and she marches
21:21
Speaker 3: to the darkest, coldest, deepest depths of the waters to
21:24
Speaker 3: confront one of its deadliest creatures, challenging it for its
21:27
Speaker 3: goddess killing tail. It offers to give it to her
21:33
Speaker 3: if she would touch the poison and condemn herself to
21:35
Speaker 3: a life of eternal pain. She does so, but to
21:39
Speaker 3: her shock, the pain does not come. The creature informs
21:42
Speaker 3: her no one has ever passed the test before, and
21:45
Speaker 3: commands her to cut off the tail.
21:47
Speaker 2: She has won she can take the prize. She does so.
21:50
Speaker 3: She feels very uncomfortable, but she does do it, and
21:53
Speaker 3: she fashions the tail into a goddess killing spear, although
21:56
Speaker 3: it could really kill just about anything, that she gives
21:59
Speaker 3: to her son.
22:01
Speaker 1: It's a spear, Yes, they can. He leaves, but returns
22:06
Speaker 1: shortly after with Odysseus's wife Penelope and his son Telemachus.
22:10
Speaker 1: Turns out Odysseus went mad without war to distract him,
22:14
Speaker 1: killing subjects and any who would dare defy him. Surprise surprise.
22:17
Speaker 1: When Telgonus arrived, he mistook him for an attacker, and
22:20
Speaker 1: Telegonius accidentally killed him with the spear oops. As Odysseus died,
22:26
Speaker 1: Telegonus told him he was his son, and instead of
22:28
Speaker 1: staying on in Ithaca, Penelope and Telemachus wanted to accompany
22:33
Speaker 1: him to the island of his mother and of the
22:35
Speaker 1: lover the Odysseus had told him about. Circe is immediately
22:39
Speaker 1: suspicious that they want to kill her son, but after
22:42
Speaker 1: confronting them separately, she learns of odysseus poor treatment of
22:45
Speaker 1: his family, of his deterioration on Ithaca that impacted Telegonus
22:50
Speaker 1: and Penelope too, and Circe also learns that Athena intends
22:53
Speaker 1: to have Telemachus take Odysseus's place as her champion, and
22:57
Speaker 1: that's why Penelope brought him there so she could have
23:01
Speaker 1: time to repair their relationship, and Sarcey agrees to give
23:04
Speaker 1: them a few months only after ensuring an oh of
23:06
Speaker 1: protection from Athena for her son, which is appropriate. Time
23:11
Speaker 1: passes and Sarcey drops the protection. Athena offers Telemachus a
23:15
Speaker 1: chance to build a kingdom and rule, but he turns
23:17
Speaker 1: it down, so Athena turns to Telegonus is dead and
23:21
Speaker 1: he accepts even though it hurts, and she's scared, even
23:25
Speaker 1: though it hurts her, and she's scared, Sarcey lets him go.
23:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, And if you're curious, like uh, Athena was trying
23:33
Speaker 3: to prevent the death of Odysseus, who was her champion,
23:37
Speaker 3: and so she saw Telegonus was going to kill him
23:40
Speaker 3: with the spear that her Circe made to protect him,
23:44
Speaker 3: and all he wanted was to meet his dad. But
23:46
Speaker 3: now that Odysseus is dead, she really doesn't care about
23:48
Speaker 3: Telegonus are killing him anymore?
23:50
Speaker 1: Right?
23:50
Speaker 3: She wants Telemachus, But then she flips real quick til
23:53
Speaker 3: Marcus is like, nah.
23:54
Speaker 2: All right, then I'll go to tele.
24:00
Speaker 3: So after Telegana sleeves, Circe confronts her father and blackmails
24:06
Speaker 3: him to lift her exile. When he tells her not
24:10
Speaker 3: to bring shame to the family, she tells him to
24:12
Speaker 3: count her out of it. He's like, you are the
24:14
Speaker 3: least of my four children, and she's like, well, how
24:16
Speaker 3: about you just say you have three.
24:17
Speaker 2: Children and just leave me out of the whole thing.
24:21
Speaker 3: She teaches Penelope the basics of witchcraft and then journeys
24:24
Speaker 3: with tell Macchus. First to Scilla, where she uses a
24:27
Speaker 3: potion to turn her to stone and and her misery
24:30
Speaker 3: and her reign of terror. Then to the beach where
24:32
Speaker 3: she first found the plants that allowed her to turn
24:35
Speaker 3: Glaucos into a god, also her first foray into witchcraft.
24:38
Speaker 3: Really she picks them. Her and Telmachus become lovers, which
24:42
Speaker 3: was probably the biggest surprise in the whole thing to me,
24:45
Speaker 3: and they return to the island where Penelope has really
24:49
Speaker 3: taken to this witch thing and houses all wayward nip
24:52
Speaker 3: daughters that this was a bunch of thing, that a
24:55
Speaker 3: task that was put on Circe, but she shunned it.
24:57
Speaker 2: And refused to do it.
24:58
Speaker 3: After a while, Andelopie has picked it back up. Sirs
25:02
Speaker 3: plants one of the flowers on the island to see
25:04
Speaker 3: if it might grow, and then she imbibes the west,
25:07
Speaker 3: wishing to become a mortal. She sees a vision of
25:11
Speaker 3: a future with Telemachus where they love each other and
25:13
Speaker 3: have two daughters, that they travel, which is something they've
25:16
Speaker 3: always wanted to do. They go to seed Telegonus and
25:20
Speaker 3: that one day she dies, and that is the end.
25:25
Speaker 3: And here here's the quote overhead the constellation's dip and wheel.
25:30
Speaker 3: My divinity shines in me like the last rays of
25:32
Speaker 3: the sun before they drown in the sea. I thought
25:35
Speaker 3: once that gods are the opposite of death, but I
25:37
Speaker 3: see now they are more dead than anything, for they
25:40
Speaker 3: are unchanging and can hold nothing in their hands. All
25:43
Speaker 3: my life, I've been moving forward, and now I am here.
25:45
Speaker 3: I have a mortal's voice. Let me have the rest.
25:48
Speaker 3: I lift the brimming bowl to my lips and drink.
25:52
Speaker 1: Boom. Yeah's another Creek Also tragedy.
26:00
Speaker 3: A tragic tragedy, as they say, there were certainly tragic moments,
26:04
Speaker 3: but yeah, it was pretty powerful overall. But now let's
26:08
Speaker 3: talk about some themes. But first let's pause for a
26:12
Speaker 3: quick break for word from our sponsor.
26:27
Speaker 1: Am We're sponsor yup, and it's time for themes. So
26:31
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and jump into the power and obviously heroes.
26:34
Speaker 1: So recurring theme throughout is the idea of heroes and
26:38
Speaker 1: the people behind them and their stories. Again we talked
26:41
Speaker 1: about with Greek myths. There's many A heroes, many A villains.
26:45
Speaker 1: Again and again we learn that they are complex people
26:47
Speaker 1: with flaws. More than the gloss over legends we read
26:50
Speaker 1: growing up and more often than not, there was a
26:52
Speaker 1: woman or many women behind them.
26:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you see this especially with Odseus when we
26:58
Speaker 3: learn about him through the lens of those who knew him.
27:01
Speaker 3: So Telegonis had this beautiful, perfect story as head of
27:04
Speaker 3: who his father was, the one in the stories we've
27:07
Speaker 3: all read, and this is his mother was telling him
27:10
Speaker 3: these stories. But Telemachus, who had grew up with him,
27:14
Speaker 3: well no he hadn't grown up with him, but he
27:15
Speaker 3: had seen him when he returned, had this really unflinching,
27:20
Speaker 3: violent reality that he saw, as does circ although for
27:24
Speaker 3: her she interpreted it somewhat differently, coming from the world
27:27
Speaker 3: of gods and goddesses, and her interpretation changes when she
27:30
Speaker 3: hears the pain it caused Telemachus, which.
27:33
Speaker 2: Was a really interesting thing.
27:36
Speaker 3: So through them we see a more complex character who
27:38
Speaker 3: did have these amazing qualities but also was quite quite flawed.
27:45
Speaker 3: This character who needed these adventures, these one time experiences,
27:50
Speaker 3: as seriously calls them, to be like the first, to
27:52
Speaker 3: be as close to immortality as possible, to be the
27:55
Speaker 3: hero in these stories and is absolutely willing to hurt
27:59
Speaker 3: others to achieve it and paint that as a heroic act.
28:03
Speaker 1: And another thing woman throughout is power and what it
28:06
Speaker 1: can look like, abuse of power and the limitations on
28:08
Speaker 1: how people can achieve it, especially for women. Many of
28:11
Speaker 1: the powerful women in the book are limited by the
28:13
Speaker 1: men in their lives and punish if they transgress seriously.
28:17
Speaker 1: Was banished by our father after our Power's frightened the Zeus,
28:20
Speaker 1: her sister, tells of the depths of pain and sacrifice
28:23
Speaker 1: she's made to hold on to power and to please
28:26
Speaker 1: the cruel men in her life. Power in the thirst
28:28
Speaker 1: of it drives these violent, crueland or thoughtless gods and
28:32
Speaker 1: goddesses and many of the heroes in their orbit right.
28:38
Speaker 3: And another big theme in this book is loneliness and immortality,
28:46
Speaker 3: and I thought, I thought the author did a really
28:49
Speaker 3: good job of that because it would be difficult to
28:51
Speaker 3: write for someone who just has such a different perspective
28:54
Speaker 3: on what it is to be alive and not to
28:57
Speaker 3: have that fear. And I think the biggest for me,
28:59
Speaker 3: the biggest point of that where it was like, oh wow,
29:03
Speaker 3: this would be very strange experience for a goddess is
29:05
Speaker 3: when she gave birth and she's like, oh my god, anything.
29:08
Speaker 2: Could kill this child, Like she didn't really have to
29:10
Speaker 2: worry about that.
29:11
Speaker 3: But so let's talk about loneliness first, especially as it
29:16
Speaker 3: does pertain to immortality. Circe spends centuries alone and isolated,
29:21
Speaker 3: and it leads her to make choices. She later regrets
29:25
Speaker 3: her affair with Hermes, when she once treasured his slights
29:29
Speaker 3: as crumbs, letting down her guard around men that led
29:33
Speaker 3: to her rape, her absolute determination not to let her
29:36
Speaker 3: son leave her side. Her immortality also influences how she
29:41
Speaker 3: sees people, and throughout the book we see her mature
29:45
Speaker 3: and age over centuries and what I thought was a
29:48
Speaker 3: really fascinating way because she has just such a longer
29:51
Speaker 3: arc of time than we do, like we see her
29:56
Speaker 3: counsel media and telegonis, for example, on mistakes that she
30:01
Speaker 3: made in her youth only should be ignored, of course,
30:05
Speaker 3: and the mortality of those she loves terrifies her and
30:08
Speaker 3: saddens her. And yeah, you see that when her first
30:11
Speaker 3: her child is born and everything becomes really dangerous, everything
30:16
Speaker 3: is one heart beat less taking him away from her.
30:20
Speaker 1: On top of the loneliness, there's a layer of betrayal
30:23
Speaker 1: and abandonment, especially by the men in Sertuce's life, whether
30:27
Speaker 1: it's her father, her brother, her lover, and this is
30:29
Speaker 1: often after Sarce puts these men first. Male relationships take
30:33
Speaker 1: precedent over sisterly relationships or mother daughter of relationships. For instance,
30:38
Speaker 1: Cirrusly spends much of her time with her family, trying
30:41
Speaker 1: to please her father to care for her younger brother,
30:44
Speaker 1: and when she gets older, she learns that her sister
30:46
Speaker 1: wanted a relationship with her surprise. Although it's understandable why
30:51
Speaker 1: cirrus is shied away from her, yeah, because you know,
30:53
Speaker 1: they kind of hated each other. This is something that
30:56
Speaker 1: changes as seriously ages, and at the end she rejects
30:59
Speaker 1: her father, we evaluate her younger brother and comes to
31:03
Speaker 1: see at least a little bit of herself in the
31:05
Speaker 1: women Throughout. Many women who start as antagonists ends as
31:10
Speaker 1: something more.
31:12
Speaker 3: Right, and that brings us to attitudes towards women that
31:17
Speaker 3: we see in these books. In this book, the women
31:21
Speaker 3: are almost always the ones that are punished or the
31:24
Speaker 3: women lash out against men or women as a way
31:27
Speaker 3: to feel like they aren't in prison, there's a way
31:29
Speaker 3: to feel like they have some kind of power or agency.
31:33
Speaker 3: Women are seen as pawns for the men to dole
31:36
Speaker 3: out and chain in one way or another. There's a
31:39
Speaker 3: lot of slut shaming too, and also a lot of
31:41
Speaker 3: judging of Circe is basically a weird witch spinster. L
31:47
Speaker 3: Another thing we see a lot of is women fighting women,
31:49
Speaker 3: and I mean, like even in the beginning with Circe
31:52
Speaker 3: and Scylla, which Circe does kind of by the end
31:56
Speaker 3: of the book, that's like one of her final acts
31:59
Speaker 3: is the book end that she goes and tries to
32:01
Speaker 3: make that right. And most of the women who do
32:05
Speaker 3: succeed in this world do so through cruelty, like Circe's sister,
32:10
Speaker 3: are kind of by like Circe's sister, I just found
32:14
Speaker 3: her so fascinating because she kind of she didn't really succeed,
32:18
Speaker 3: but she was as close as I imagine you can
32:20
Speaker 3: get in this like really male dominated world. And that's
32:23
Speaker 3: why she was so cruel and cut you to the bone,
32:28
Speaker 3: because she had to play the game and she was
32:31
Speaker 3: miserable for like she said, she talked about all the
32:33
Speaker 3: pains she went through and the sacrifices she made, but
32:36
Speaker 3: she was also like, yeah, pretty terrible, and yes, these
32:44
Speaker 3: women were often cruel to other women.
32:48
Speaker 2: And I remember I wrote this.
32:50
Speaker 3: Down on a notepad when I was reading it and
32:52
Speaker 3: I just wanted to put it in here because there's
32:54
Speaker 3: definitely a vibe of lady, get married or you are
32:57
Speaker 3: nothing and if no one wants to marry you, you're nothing.
33:01
Speaker 2: Wow. It was pretty powerful. I mean throughout the.
33:04
Speaker 1: Entire book, all the women are definitely pandering. Two men
33:07
Speaker 1: that hired heroic man.
33:12
Speaker 3: Really again, they were the ones probably behind the whole thing,
33:16
Speaker 3: and take.
33:16
Speaker 1: Care less if they were there or not. So going
33:20
Speaker 1: back to that hero worship thing, we see so many
33:23
Speaker 1: men taking credit for women's work and making themselves the
33:27
Speaker 1: hero of the story. Is particularly exemplified in the marriage
33:31
Speaker 1: between Jason and Medea, after Medea had used magic to
33:34
Speaker 1: save him again and again and pretty much got that
33:38
Speaker 1: golden fleece for him. Yet when he tells the story,
33:41
Speaker 1: he's obviously the hero, and people remember him as the
33:45
Speaker 1: hero and pass that story on.
33:47
Speaker 5: It's written.
33:48
Speaker 1: She Medea was silent alone moment one of Jason let
33:53
Speaker 1: him be a hero. You are something else?
33:55
Speaker 5: And what is that?
33:57
Speaker 2: In my mind?
33:57
Speaker 1: I saw us already our husband together over the purple
34:00
Speaker 1: flowers of Aconite, the black roots of Molly. I would
34:03
Speaker 1: rescue her from her tainted pass, of which I said
34:06
Speaker 1: with unbound power, who need answer to none but herself.
34:11
Speaker 3: But Medea says me, and we're holding off about that
34:16
Speaker 3: more or later. Then there's the fact that Cirrus lies
34:21
Speaker 3: to her son about the acts of his father DC
34:23
Speaker 3: used to protect the child's image of him. And it
34:25
Speaker 3: really emphasizes, at least to me, that's saying behind every
34:28
Speaker 3: gay man, there is a woman. There's also many instances
34:33
Speaker 3: of women making sacrifices that go ignored for love, only
34:36
Speaker 3: to be discarded are otherwise punished. Also in that example
34:39
Speaker 3: with Media and Jason, Jason, even at this early stage,
34:43
Speaker 3: was clearly scared of Medea like in her power, and
34:47
Speaker 3: was already kind of trying to distance himself even though
34:52
Speaker 3: she'd gotten him that fleece pretty much. Here's another quote.
34:57
Speaker 3: The nymphs wafted around me. There's smothered laughter drifted down
35:00
Speaker 3: on the halls. At least I told myself it was
35:02
Speaker 3: not their brothers who would have bragged and fought and
35:04
Speaker 3: hunted down my wolves. But of course there was never
35:07
Speaker 3: a real danger. Sons were not punished.
35:11
Speaker 1: So there are so many tales of keeping wives in chains,
35:15
Speaker 1: of torturing them, of pretty much disposing of them keeping
35:19
Speaker 1: powerful women tamed in golden cages, making these smaller promises
35:23
Speaker 1: of false power, of men afraid of powerful women, keeping
35:26
Speaker 1: knowledge of magic to themselves, or punishing women for it
35:30
Speaker 1: seriously specifically to an island by ourself. And when describing
35:35
Speaker 1: her niece, the Demi goddess Medea, now that I knew
35:38
Speaker 1: who she was, such meekness looked absurd on her, like
35:42
Speaker 1: a great eagle trying to hunch down to fit inside
35:44
Speaker 1: a sparrow's nest.
35:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I loved that quote, which brings us to
35:51
Speaker 3: something we talk about a lot on this show, Women
35:54
Speaker 3: Getting But first let's pause for one more quick break
35:59
Speaker 3: for words. I'm a sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor.
36:16
Speaker 3: And yes, we are back with women getting revenge because
36:20
Speaker 3: there are so many instances of it and revenge in general,
36:23
Speaker 3: but specifically in this case, women getting revenge. Uh, You've
36:26
Speaker 3: got Circe's sister cursing her husband for cheating by turning
36:30
Speaker 3: his sperm into stinging insects that killed.
36:33
Speaker 2: The women who slept with Which sounds.
36:37
Speaker 1: Or which is really funny that it killed the woman
36:39
Speaker 1: instead of him? I guess it.
36:40
Speaker 3: Yes again again, women punishing other women and seeing disposable
36:46
Speaker 3: women is disposable. Then of course there's Searcy killing and
36:50
Speaker 3: burning the man who raped her and turning his crew
36:52
Speaker 3: into pigs. After that, she punishes any man who come
36:55
Speaker 3: to her island with the same which she turns into pigs,
37:00
Speaker 3: especially when they learned she's a one alone and they
37:02
Speaker 3: do not care that she is a goddess. Yeah, she'll
37:06
Speaker 3: she has like this whole wine set up. She puts
37:08
Speaker 3: some drug into wine and says the magic word fall asleep,
37:11
Speaker 3: turn into pigs. And she doesn't stop doing this until Odysseus,
37:16
Speaker 3: and later admits to herself that she almost lost herself
37:20
Speaker 3: to cold fury that she was turning men into pigs indiscriminately.
37:24
Speaker 3: And that is another recurrent theme in the book Regret,
37:27
Speaker 3: And that's one of my favorite quotes is do not
37:30
Speaker 3: take my regret from me.
37:31
Speaker 1: M M.
37:32
Speaker 2: I like that.
37:33
Speaker 1: So here's another quote, mistress. It was later again, when
37:37
Speaker 1: will your husband be home? We would toast such fine hospitality,
37:41
Speaker 1: I laughed, Oh, I do not have a husband. He
37:43
Speaker 1: smiled back. Of course, he said, you're too young to
37:46
Speaker 1: be married. Then it is your father. We must think.
37:49
Speaker 1: It was full dark outside and the room glowed warm
37:51
Speaker 1: and bright. My father was far away, I said, I
37:54
Speaker 1: waited for them to ask who he was a liplighter.
37:57
Speaker 1: That would be a good gest, I smelled myself. And
38:00
Speaker 1: perhaps there's some other hosts we should think, an uncle,
38:02
Speaker 1: a brother, if you would thank your host, I said,
38:05
Speaker 1: thank me. This house is mine alone. And at that
38:08
Speaker 1: word the air changed the room.
38:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this was a really like terrifying because he
38:16
Speaker 3: was trying to find.
38:16
Speaker 2: Out there's a man's probing.
38:17
Speaker 5: Yeah.
38:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that after that seriously is raped by the
38:25
Speaker 3: captain and then kills him and turns the crew into pigs.
38:29
Speaker 3: And then we see much later. Here's another quote, Mistress.
38:35
Speaker 3: The leader would say, do not tell me that such
38:37
Speaker 3: a beauty as yourself dwells all alone? Oh yes, I
38:40
Speaker 3: would answer, quite alone, he would smile. He could not
38:43
Speaker 3: help it. There was never any fear in him. Why
38:45
Speaker 3: should there be. He had already noted for himself that
38:47
Speaker 3: there was no man's cloak hanging by the door, no
38:49
Speaker 3: hunter's bow, no shepherd's staff, no sign of brothers or
38:52
Speaker 3: fathers or sons. No vengeance would follow after. If I
38:56
Speaker 3: were valuable to anyone, I would not be allowed to
38:59
Speaker 3: live alone. Yeah, and that's something that really hurts her too,
39:06
Speaker 3: is her father surely knew that this was going to happen,
39:09
Speaker 3: and did happen and did not come. Even though she
39:14
Speaker 3: is a powerful witch, she is a woman alone in
39:16
Speaker 3: the world and has to use techniques of self defense
39:19
Speaker 3: that all women can recognize.
39:21
Speaker 1: That.
39:21
Speaker 3: That's something else I liked about this book is even
39:23
Speaker 3: though it's like gods and goddesses, there are these themes
39:26
Speaker 3: that you're like, no I can relate.
39:28
Speaker 1: To her right oh man. Obviously. Another thing that we
39:33
Speaker 1: have talked about many a times is motherhood, specifically single motherhood,
39:39
Speaker 1: which is a big part of this book. When Circe
39:42
Speaker 1: gives birth, she is alone and terrified, more terrified than
39:46
Speaker 1: she has ever been. She can feel a goddess trying
39:49
Speaker 1: to hold her baby back to kill it, but she
39:51
Speaker 1: fights harder than she has ever fought, and after the
39:53
Speaker 1: baby is born, despite being a difficult baby that cries
39:56
Speaker 1: and fights, she realizes she would do anything to protect him,
40:00
Speaker 1: and she does. With her magic, she is able to
40:03
Speaker 1: keep Athena out. She walks to the darkest stepths of
40:05
Speaker 1: the ocean and accepts the deal given to her for
40:08
Speaker 1: unending pain in exchange for the god killing weapon to
40:11
Speaker 1: protect her son, the weapon that would later kill the
40:15
Speaker 1: father Odysseus when Telegani's journeys to meet him, causing her
40:19
Speaker 1: son great pain. And she describes raising her son as
40:22
Speaker 1: the most difficult of her life. That she's always exhausted,
40:26
Speaker 1: which I was about right, and her waking hours consumed
40:29
Speaker 1: with worry and work and letting him go is one
40:32
Speaker 1: of the hardest things she has ever had to do. Oh,
40:36
Speaker 1: and she finds so much strength in motherhood. She learns
40:38
Speaker 1: even she doesn't know just how powerful she is and
40:41
Speaker 1: just what she can do.
40:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I loved that too, of her trying to
40:46
Speaker 3: figure out again she's not mortal. So she's like, oh,
40:49
Speaker 3: I got to make all these diapers. This isn't enough diapers.
40:51
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's longer again, it's still fear.
40:53
Speaker 1: Oh no.
40:57
Speaker 3: So I wanted to end on this cue, which I loved.
41:01
Speaker 3: It is a common saying that women are delicate creatures, flowers, eggs,
41:04
Speaker 3: anything that may be crushed in a moment's carelessness.
41:08
Speaker 2: If I had ever believed it, I no longer did.
41:12
Speaker 3: And this is what Circe thinks after talking to a
41:14
Speaker 3: DC's wife Penelope and Yeah, that whole scene really drives
41:19
Speaker 3: home out terrifying being a parent can be in this
41:21
Speaker 3: single motherhood and the strength of women in these stories,
41:30
Speaker 3: which I loved because yeah, when you read those Greek myths,
41:34
Speaker 3: they are mostly about like the male heroes and then
41:37
Speaker 3: the duplicitous like female goddesses messing with things or the
41:44
Speaker 3: like really attractive young lady that caused.
41:47
Speaker 2: A war or something.
41:48
Speaker 3: Right, So it was good to get this different take
41:52
Speaker 3: fleshed out conflicts female characters.
41:55
Speaker 1: I loved it, right, they are usually side characters who
41:57
Speaker 1: just give birth to babies, have gods who oftentimes didn't
42:01
Speaker 1: have a choice, and being impregnated so.
42:07
Speaker 2: Either killed or osta size.
42:12
Speaker 1: Yeah.
42:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I highly recommend it, and we would love
42:19
Speaker 3: your recommendations for what on next book club pick should be. Yes,
42:25
Speaker 3: you can send those to our email, which is Stuff
42:28
Speaker 3: Media Mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can also
42:30
Speaker 3: find us on Instagram at stephone Never Told You or
42:33
Speaker 3: on Twitter at Momstoff Podcast. Thanks as always to our
42:35
Speaker 3: super producer Andrew Howard. Oh, thanks Andrew, and thanks to
42:39
Speaker 3: you for listening. Steffane Never Told You his protection of
42:42
Speaker 3: iHeartRadio for more podcasts from iHeartRadio visits, iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
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Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.