Latest / The Bold Lounge / Lorraine K. Lee: Bold Presence- Mastering Your Influence

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Lorraine K. Lee: Bold Presence- Mastering Your Influence · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Every week we'll hear from someone who has taken the lead or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they used to make things happen.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they faced challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Today I have Lorraine Kay Lee.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: She is a keynote speaker, best-selling author of Unforgettable Presence, Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career, and an instructor with LinkedIn Learning and Stanford.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: She is recognized as a LinkedIn top voice with hundreds of thousands of followers and has a decade of experience leading editorial teams at top tech firms.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Her insights have appeared in outlets such as CNBC, Bloomberg, and the Fast Company magazine.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Great to meet you, another fellow author and just having unprecedented success with her book.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really excited to jump into it and connecting it to personal branding and what we do.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: But let's start off with being bold.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: What does bold mean to you?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: What does it look like?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Bold to me means doing the scary things or taking the risk or doing the project, whatever it may be, even while scared and even when you're not sure it's going to work out.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so feeling the fear or feeling, you know, uneasiness of like, oh, I'm not sure.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then doing it anyway when it's it's not guaranteed.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a slam dunk that, you know, someone can say for sure it's going to happen.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So when's a time in your life where you did the thing scared knowing it wasn't guaranteed?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: A few times at this point.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, most recently, the book was one thing, but I'll go a little bit farther back than that.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of what kickstarted my interest in video and first steps I took to really push myself out of my comfort zone at work was at LinkedIn.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I was a founding editor there, which was a really wonderful, very cool experience.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we brought video to the platform to LinkedIn, and I decided to host a video series, even though I was terrified to be on camera.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's always a fun story seeing that then and then seeing that I speak for a living now.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: But that was like the first thing I really needed to do to push myself to realize that I could do it, even though I was scared.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually I think that was an important piece to lead me to where I am now.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it felt very vulnerable, it sounds like.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that's how I feel like when I do a video, I'm not a big fan of it myself.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it is what feels more personal, right?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Than some of the things that you can see more in a flat way, like written or um otherwise.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So when you did something innovative, like bringing video to the platform itself, you actually had to be part of that and video yourself and put yourself out there too.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: What did you learn about yourself in that moment of vulnerability or uneasiness that can happen with when we create our videos or those types of things that we do that put ourselves out there?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: One, I realized that we are often our own worst critics.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: So after you see the final video cut, I'm like, oh, I, you know, I can tell I'm a little nervous, but it's not as bad as I envisioned, or I wasn't as awkward or uncomfortable as I thought I was.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we're often our own harshest critics.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so to remember that it's usually the outcome is usually better than what we think.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then really it was what you said about being bold, like, oh, I I can do this thing.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you realize as you start pushing yourself through these things, and even if it doesn't work out, the fact that you do it gives you confidence.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then you build confidence through doing those scary things.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the more you do it, the more you realize, okay, I can do the scary thing, I won't die, everything will be okay, and now I can take on the next scary thing.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about that and connecting it to what you wrote about.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you wrote about, I mean, the title of your book is Unforgettable Presence.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Get seen, gain influence, and catapult your career.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about the trajectory to now, have you always felt unforgettable in the sense of how you approach your work, how you approach, you know, your social media, how you approach just the world that you are navigating?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Have you always felt like you're unforgettable and have that presence that someone can't forget?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: I wish uh I did not start off that way.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I mentioned I I was a founding editor at LinkedIn.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And in the book, I I, you know, talk about the introduction, about how I did feel forgettable and overlooked really while I was at LinkedIn.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I loved my job there, loved my coworkers, worked on high priority projects, worked really hard, uh, was uh, you know, always came to work with a positive attitude.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you would think that these things on paper would lend themselves to a promotion, to advancing within the company.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I was there for six years.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: So after the first year, I got promoted from junior to mid-level.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: But then once I hit that mid-level mark, it was really hard for me to make that leap to senior level.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's one of the hardest jumps to make in corporate.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, I learned after leaving LinkedIn and a lot of self-reflection and talking to mentors that I was leaving a lot on the table and I wasn't taking charge of my career and being proactive and intentional in the way that I needed to in order to advance.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized that a big missing piece of that was presence in terms of how I was being viewed.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then later on, uh with COVID and going virtual and all that, I realized, oh, presence is this magic formula of how you're seen, but also where you're being seen on platforms like LinkedIn, um, even which chat channels you're in, as an example as well.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: So presence is more of this all-encompassing thing that that I was missing, basically, to advance.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what an important point that you just made is something that you can develop.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if you felt unseen, or if you felt like I just can't do that because that's just, you know, too vulnerable, or I don't really want to talk about myself.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: There are ways that you can do it that feel aligned with you, it sounds like.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And additionally, I think there are ways that you can learn how to do more of it just by practicing it and doing doing it more often.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's really why I'm, you know, with this book, I'm I'm redefining what presence means because I think Lee, when we hear presence, we think, oh, executive presence, how I show up in the room.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's you know, so many assumptions and and people preconceived notions when it comes to executive presence, right?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: So how I show up in the room, I maybe have to have a certain personality look a certain way.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what I want people to understand and to hopefully feel empowered by is that presence is in this book more about those small moments that build up over time.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, the big moments are important too, and executive presence is one piece of that, but it's those smaller moments, those interactions that we have every day with small tweaks, we can up-level already the great work that we're doing.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, like it's learnable and it's something that we can strengthen over time.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like that because there's an analogy to I think being bold.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it is always something big and loud and one big jump.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: It is the steps every day that we take to do the thing that makes us nervous, or to have the conversation, or to try something new, or to say this isn't going to work.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do something different.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: It is those steps that we take that add up, right?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: To the ultimately, you know, feeling scene, being present, feeling like yourself, and you know, making those bold moves, but it's not always loud and big.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that that piece of it.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: When you think about your life, obviously LinkedIn is one thing professionally.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a moment of boldness earlier on in your life that you can remember, or something that you saw that you're like, wow, that's bold, and that's something that I think whether it's something you want to be or something you want to be like, or even maybe something you want to do.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Does anything come to mind?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would say in early, early years, I was pretty shy.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing that I comes to mind.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you said you're an introvert, right?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm introverted, shyer.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I did there were moments where I pushed myself in in school and in class, like you know, becoming editor-in-chief of the school newspaper and like even putting my hat in the ring.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was something that was uncomfortable for me.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of speaking in front of a group and having to motivate people and and lead people in that way.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, maybe that's like the earliest thing.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: I remember like student counsel, like going for student council BP or something like that.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you had Oh, that's right.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, put yourself out there and do the campaigning.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I I remember that was a little nerve-wracking for me.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: But once I did, I was like, Oh, this actually feels pretty good, and I get to talk to people, etc.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously I do a little bit of that now uh in my role that I have.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so again, those are moments that kind of add up.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: When you think about being seen from being shy or introverted, what does it mean to you now as an adult to feel seen and to feel like you are able to help others through your work or even maybe through things that you know you struggled with before and now you hope others don't?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: What does it mean to you now to be seen?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's so special and so meaningful.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think not just to be seen, but to know that I'm positively impacting people.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: We talked before we hit record and that, you know, the book launch has been so exciting for me because I'm getting messages from people who I don't know, I have no idea how they found the book.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: They're, you know, as far as Singapore, and they're telling me how the book has positively impacted them.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think to be able to be seen in order to help people grow in their careers and to hopefully not have to go through the challenges that I went through, I think that's a very powerful thing.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's why I do what I do.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about, you know, the book has a great layout, and we're gonna start to step into your book.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: What's one thing that someone can do just at the beginning of the process to get started or to get organized or to really feel like they have the ingredients ready to create on what may be the system and the process that they can use from your book?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing I would say is to work on the mindset piece, which I feel like connects very well to you know being bold.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of tactical frameworks in the book.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, intentionally, I'm a very tactical person.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: I want people to be able to take action and to feel more confident right away.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: But that mindset piece is so important, and that's why I start off the book talking about mindset to become the CEO of your own career, to lead with intentionality, to be proactive, and to not assume anything, right?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Let's not assume that because we've been at a company for a certain amount of time, of course, we're going to get promoted.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or let's not assume our hard work is going to speak for itself.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So the mindset shift of, okay, I have some control over the outcome.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: I am able to take things into my own hands.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I need to take things into my own hands, especially in this day and age where our manager is super busy, even if they want to help, right?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's just so much going on.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're spread across all over the world.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so to have that proactivity and that mindset going in, I feel like is very much the foundational piece.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think holds high achieving people back from owning their presence fully?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: One piece is that we don't get taught really about it.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Again, this is why, you know, I'm so excited about the book.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think I wish I there was a class or something, you know, earlier on in my career.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, unfortunately, it's just not something that we get taught.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: We have to go seek it out ourselves, or some of us never, never learn it.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we we feel stuck.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that teaching element or of just not having enough information out there.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then again, preconceived notions like what is presence?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I, you know, I have to be that really loud, extroverted personality.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: When we have those beliefs in our head, it stops us perhaps from even realizing or being open to the idea that in fact we can lead or we can have a strong presence in our own authentic way.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things you say is that being intentional, which you've talked about, you know, today and in the book, not just being a hard worker, but being intentional is the key to being seen and visible.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does it look like in real life for someone who might be stuck in the cycle of I'm doing the right things, but no one's seeing me?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm being overlooked for promotions or I'm being overlooked for projects.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think someone can say, oh yeah, that's me.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing that.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I need to change or I need to try something different so they can actually feel seen and be visible.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: The example I like to share is is with promotions.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So again, like we think a lot of us think hard work is going to get us noticed, and that hard work is what's going to help us advance in a company.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And hard work is really kind of the foundation, like the expectation, the minimum minimal expectation that's the right.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: The main ingredient, right?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you need to do good work, you need to work hard.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, how do we take it from there?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so promotion time.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: I remember my coworker at LinkedIn.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: She also worked very hard, super well liked by teammates, had been there longer than me.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd always wondered to myself, like, why had she never gotten promoted?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: It seemed like it seemed like she should have been.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then one day she comes into the office and then she got promoted.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I was so excited for her.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I go up to her and I ask her, you know, what happened?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like that you, I know you've been waiting a while.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And she said this thing to me that just blew my mind.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, I simply had to ask and let my manager know that I wanted to get promoted.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And as someone who's ambitious and who definitely wants to get promoted myself, I was like, oh my God, like you have to state that.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not just assumed.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that is the case.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not everyone does want to get promoted, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so to be explicit, I know it sounds so obvious and so simple, but to be explicit and say what it is that you want and what you're striving for, and don't just say it once, but you have to mention it multiple times in a non-annoying, tactful way.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's like honestly, like one of the best things that you can do.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: So again, it sounds like one of the themes will be just try, just start.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what definitely one of the things that I say with when it comes to our goals or taking, you know, a bold step forward is just start.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to have it all figured out.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be perfect.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a sense of um from all the work that you've done and everyone that you've interviewed, uh, even for the book and in your career?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a sense that people think it has to be perfect and without error before they try to put themselves out there to be seen, to be visible?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: I see this a lot, especially with LinkedIn.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And people when I talk about the book or when I talk about LinkedIn and do my training sessions, a lot of people say, Well, you know, I have these ideas, but I just I don't know if it's original enough, or I'm nervous about what people are going to think, or I'm like constantly tweaking and retweaking.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yes, I definitely see that as something that can be a blocker, especially with women as well.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes, right, when we're putting ourselves up for promotion, like we want everything to be perfect, we want to hit all the criteria, um, whereas men will not hit a majority of the criteria and still go for it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I see it in all different aspects of presence, but I would say LinkedIn especially people want it like in tip top shape because it's your professional self being put out there, right?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I get that, but um, to your point, Lee, like sometimes you just gotta do it and see what happens and experiment.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and just know that you'll get better each time you do it, right?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think success is really connected to someone that does things to take action to move forward.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's usually you don't just do something once and you know, you win the Oscar.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're in multiple films, you start in things that no one's ever heard of, right?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And like you may be in the field for over 20 years before you get seen.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just like, you know, one I'm just using the Oscars as an example of like someone doesn't usually win the Oscar on their first film, right?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things you start off, like you said, you have multiple uh frameworks and ways to approach the work that someone can choose in the book.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you start off with one, which is an acronym called EPIC.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about the EPIC career brand, can you tell us a little bit about that particular approach to a personal brand or someone's brand that they're creating?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'll take it a step back first and to say that a personal brand, or as I call it in the book, a career brand is essential.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people, when they hear the word or phrase personal brand, they get a little uncomfortable, right?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it sounds like maybe I have to be promoting myself or marketing myself all the time, or I'm not a brand, you know, I'm a person, brands are for companies.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: But what a brand is, is essentially your reputation.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I call it a career brand to help better explain your brand is meant to help you in your career.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if we go into that understanding that uh a brand is a reputation, then we realize, okay, we all already have a brand.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so we either can act on it and strengthen it and form it how we would like, or we can leave it the chance and let other people do it for us.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I came up with Epic because when we think about a brand, it can feel like kind of an overwhelming thing.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where do I even start?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: So epic are the four key ingredients to think about as you start formulating your brand and figuring out how you want to convey that to the world.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So E stands for experiences.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: This can be personal or professional life experiences that have gotten you to where you are.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: We have personality, so introvert, extrovert, maybe you're the more serious person, or maybe you're the culture champion.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are the soft human skills that make you you?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Identity, this can be your cultural background, but it can also be the values that you operate by and what people can expect when they work with you.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then the last piece, the C, is what a lot of people forget.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's the community piece.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: So is what you're saying about yourself, does that align with how others perceive you?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And also what are people saying about you when you're not there?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Are they representing you in the way that you want to be represented?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Are they even talking about you when you're not in the room?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to make sure that even if we see ourselves a certain way, it needs to be aligned with how our network sees us.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the four key ingredients.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So like it's a bit of a self-awareness of like maybe you think you're being seen a certain way.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or, you know, people understand what your values are, but it's more so what you're doing is making it very clear, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Through that framework, you're able to then develop potentially whether it's the pillars of your thought leadership or whether it's what you want to talk about.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Using Epic will help you get started of like, what is it that I'm actually going to be creating around, right?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Some people find it hard to actually write about themselves because they feel like it's bragging or putting it out there.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: How do we get comfortable with talking about ourselves or someone that might be shy about even talking about their accomplishments or things that they know?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: What's a step they can take there?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: When someone feels uncomfortable, I think it's always helpful to frame things in terms of, okay, how is what I'm about to share going to help people?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: So if I want to talk about myself and something I did, I might talk about a learning or a lesson or a story that other people can relate to.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Similarly, if I'm in corporate America, I might say, oh, instead of, you know, I did this thing, I might say, okay, here's what we learned doing this, and here's why I think that it might be helpful to, you know, team X, Y, and Z.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you can make it a little bit less me focused, I think for the people who feel uncomfortable, you want to make it a little bit more outward-facing.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: How can I help other people essentially and give knowledge away so that it doesn't feel like I'm it's just like the me show.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: But it, you know, it's important to remember like you do have to talk about your work.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want it to always be like, oh, I'm never going to kind of give myself a pat on the back or give myself credit.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, there's a balance as you sort of ease into it and get used to it.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things you talk about really throughout the book is, you know, your superpowers.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: What what's your definition of a superpower and what's yours?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love talking about superpowers, especially as it pertains to introverts, because I think it can really feel like, again, in a in a corporate setting, that it is not made for um an introvert.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Are you an introvert or an extrovert?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an introvert.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely power up in smaller groups.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I certainly can do all the things like you, but I think introverts get a bad rap sometimes.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, exactly.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I love talking about superpowers in terms of introversion because yeah, it can feel like, oh, it's just like the loud people get noticed and the loud people are the ones who get promoted.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: But when we can understand, okay, what are our superpowers, especially as introverts, I feel like it really unlocks a lot of doors and can hopefully build some confidence.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: So one of my superpowers, I would say, is writing.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I have a journalism background, so I thought, you know, entering the working world, oh, everyone can write.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not the case.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, introverts are really great at written communication.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so use that to your advantage.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you don't speak up in the meeting all the time, but you can summarize your thoughts, you can um, you know, connect the dots, add your own ideas with a little bit of time to process, and that's going to give people time to digest and really showcase your ideas, showcase your ability to summarize complicated information.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one thing.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Another untraditional one, or maybe a surprising one, is public speaking.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of introverts think they I get nervous.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's for the extroverts, but introverts are really great at connecting with people, being empathetic to those around them, and practicing and being really thorough.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And those are all the things and the ingredients that are needed in order to be a strong presenter.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another one where, you know, I hadn't realized that at first, but once you do, you're like, oh, I I can step into this and do this thing and really impress people.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you don't even know sometimes, right?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like you think you're just doing what you're supposed to do or working hard or doing the job that you were asked to do, and really you might be doing it better than anyone else or faster or more thoroughly.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you really just think it's what you do.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I know at times I'm like, I think everybody can do this.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just doing the job.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, people say, uh, no, they can't do that that way or that fast, or you know, in a way that you do it, that people understand it.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So don't underestimate the things that you do differently or better than everyone else, is really kind of one of the key points that you talked about.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: When you think about your, you know, this is a word that's overused, I think authentic, right?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you you want to make sure that what you're doing, whether it's in social media or speaking or in writing, that it is aligned and authentic to you.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um how do you know that it, even when it feels uncomfortable, that it's still authentic, right?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a difference.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: The way that I think is best to know is a lot of the times when we are trying to strive for something like or post on LinkedIn or you know, become that executive, it can be really easy to try to copy someone exactly.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Compare yourself to.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And there's definitely elements like you can copy elements, right?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Things that you admire and like, but when you try to emulate someone who's not you, it's gonna be hard.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's not sustainable.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think one of the best ways to know is even if it feels uncomfortable, is this something that can be sustained and something that I will get more comfortable with by nature of, again, like you said, like repeating it and doing it more often.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: If it is like I I spoke to Linda Tong, CEO of Webflow for the book, and she mentioned that her authenticity and the way that she leads, like she doesn't she says what she thinks, she's not trying to lead people simply with authority, she shows her personality, and I think that's what people appreciate most about her.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think personality is also a big piece of that.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, and sometimes you don't even know what you have.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, should you ask a friend if you're really uncomfortable?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Should you like maybe even do like some of the initial activities are really defining the things we're talking about?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we're really talking about the beginning of your unforgettable presence that you can develop and create and kind of define.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is it good to do it with a buddy if you're feeling too uncomfortable?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or what what would be your thoughts around someone who's like, I really don't know why I'm unique, or you know, because some people really do have to dig sometimes.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's always a great idea to get support.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: So whether it's a friend, whether it's a manager, whether it's family, right?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can ask anyone.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think actually it's a great idea to kind of do a little survey of everyone in your life and see because yeah, people do that some of the exercises you mentioned in the book, and they're like, Oh, like a lot of people were mentioning this skill, and I didn't even think about that as my strength.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or again, oh, I thought I was viewed as this way, and everyone's saying something else.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's actually very important to get that external perspective again from people who are close to you, even people who are maybe a little bit farther away from you.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: You have a whole chapter about turning video into your superpower.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I know video is one thing personally that not that I've struggled with, that I just don't want to do, honestly.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, I feel like I think I get into my perfectionist problem mode, and I'm like, oh, well, that doesn't look good, or I didn't say that the way I wanted, or whatever it may be.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's 55 takes.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: But doing something like this that isn't scripted, that isn't, you know, is much easier for me.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think when it comes to video.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, you know, that's not something I think everyone feels comfortable with.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think video is so important when it comes to our presence and uh maybe what we do in social media as well?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Video is is the main way we communicate.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Even when we're going into the office, there's going to be a need for video at some point, whether you are you happen to be working from home that day, whether you are meeting Zoom every day.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how many Zooms are we on each day?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And crazy temperature.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's got to be an average of at least two to three.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like more, yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it it it's just it's just a thing now that that we do.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so to ensure that you are showing up professionally, that you look credible, that you are giving off the vibe that you want to on video, that not just like aesthetically.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I talk about the team method, tech energy aesthetics, making sure all these things are put into place.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it doesn't have to be a complicated thing.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, we can create really fancy studios and have mood lighting and all that, but really tech energy aesthetics, these are the three factors I think that you need to think about.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes, like, we never meet someone in person, right?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: It is only on video.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: I just got through um some interviews making my first uh hire, and some people do not have the greatest video presence.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I'm an expert in this, so I'm maybe a little bit extra critical, but like subconsciously, if someone is in a dark room or their framing is not great, um, you're going to perceive them a certain way.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: On the flip side, if someone has a really nicely curated background, if they are making eye contact like we are with each other right now, they're using their hands and they're energetic, like that will create a positive impression.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: So again, like this is one of the main touch points that we have, and we should be being thoughtful and intentional about it.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: I still do a lot of trainings on how to communicate impactfully on video, how to present virtually.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people still haven't perfected their setups.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is a and that's amazing, right?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think that was one of the things I know when we did, you know, kind of the switch early on, and I was actually starting uh my company in 2020.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it was everything was just beyond wacky.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but trying to figure that out pretty quickly, and I was like, well, like, you know, I want the background to look good.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make sure my camera isn't fuzzy.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the eye contact's hard.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I try to do it really well and I try to, you know, look at the camera and speak and you know, do the things that I need to do so it feels more, I think, connected, right?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the point.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is there one thing you see people do to sabotage their credibility when it comes to Zoom or kind of the video conferencing presence that we that we want to achieve?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is there one thing you see that, you know, someone could maybe think about pretty quickly and maybe fix or or attune?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one thing I so I actually think all the things that I talk about in the book are pretty quick fixes, but you just have to like take it step by step and and don't get overwhelmed.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can get through all of them, no problem.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I would say a quick thing to fix is the removal of virtual backgrounds if you are using a virtual background.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason for this things kill me, you know, like your hair goes away, you know, it just looks weird, almost like you're in Star Wars or something.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you just like explain like why it's not good because it's super distracting.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so unless you have a green screen behind you and it's just very, you know, tight around the edges here, um, it's not going to be ideal, right?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime you move your hand or move your head, like things are popping in and out of the screen.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: On video, we are already working over.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Time to process what the heck is going on.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's like the slightest lag on internet.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're trying to interpret facial cues, all these things.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And when you start adding a virtual background and things are just popping in and out, and you're the other person's just distracted.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Their eyes are just gonna keep being drawn to whatever is happening, all the movement, and it's gonna be harder for them to focus.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it really reminds us that okay, we're not it reminds us that we are in a virtual setting, like we're not in person, and it just it unnecessarily emphasizes that, right?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're trying to create an experience where it does feel like as much as possible that we are in person and things are kind of natural and smooth and and we're connecting in that way.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: When you were writing this part of the book, did you remember some of the things that maybe you did in the past?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you feel like you always did this well?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was lucky enough that when I joined Prezi, that was at the end of 2019.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then so COVID happened a few um few months afterwards, and Prezi was building out a video product at the time.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like fairly early on, I I understood.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I also had this goal for myself to get, you know, getting speaking of public speaking, like to get better at public speaking, even though again it scared me.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so given what Prezi was focused on, and then me trying to do more public speaking, I the topic I spoke on was actually video presence and knowing how to communicate more effectively virtually.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so the two kind of tied together nicely that I I learned about it pretty quickly.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of taking what you did well and kind of taking to the next level and then sharing with others kind of what you have always done or what you've learned.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it wasn't always comfortable for you.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't sound like it.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it wasn't something you're like, hey, let me do a video and put it out for the world to see and comment on.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, not at all.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not like that either.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's good for people to hear that you don't wake up with that kind of in mind.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, you're it's a bigger meaning for what you're doing, which I think comes down to kind of something you talk about about using LinkedIn in the right way.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does that mean?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: What what is what maybe what's the wrong way, and what's the right way to use LinkedIn?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: The wrong way would be to only use LinkedIn as a job site or to only think that LinkedIn is a job site.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: And LinkedIn has really become our virtual water cooler, our virtual landing page, and really our ultimate virtual office.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, knowing that we want to be seen at the office.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And whether you are happy at your job, whether you're looking for a new job, it's going to be valuable to show up on LinkedIn.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: You stay top of mind.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that's a huge, huge, huge part of your presence.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: I've had many people, you know, eventually we we meet on LinkedIn and then we meet through video and they'll they'll say, wow, Lorraine, like you have a really strong LinkedIn presence.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's such an amazing thing to be able to influence positively someone's perception of you even before they've met you.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they'll never meet me, but they're still seeing me in a certain way.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so similarly, like we've all had that experience where someone um messages us, we're like, who is this person?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let me check them out.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you go first?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: You go to their LinkedIn versus trying to find a personal website.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's such a place where you can show your credibility, where people can learn about you and decide, like, does it make sense to connect?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: I really feel like if you have a strong LinkedIn presence, you can open up a lot of doors, meet a lot of people whom you might not normally have been able to get in touch with.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: In the book, you go through like some of the key things that you've seen, maybe as you know, errors or mistakes people could make on LinkedIn.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you kind of go through each of the sections like of your profile, of the about.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is there one piece of your profile or kind of that landing page where they come to that's more important than another, or maybe in the sense of it's a priority to get it, you know, honed in so that people can engage with you?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: I would say the top portion is the most important because that's what we land on and what we see first.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: So uh the headline, a lot of people don't realize that the keywords you put in your headline uh impact discoverability and searchability in the LinkedIn ecosystem, but also um on Google.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are looking to, let's say you're like a content writer right now, but you want to get into a data role, like definitely the word data should be in your profile so that any recruiters looking for someone related to data, you will pop up there.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then the the background photo, which I call really the billboard of your profile, a lot of people leave this one just blank.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: They use like LinkedIn's default image or they upload a nature scape.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: And unless you're the photographer who took that photo and that's what you do for a living, I really don't learn much about you.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's a really underutilized area, but I think um very powerful, right?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a huge visual at the top of our profiles.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so kind of getting getting the key information and this kind of first impression almost really is what that is.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just say, like, we got our profile set, we got the picture, we got everything in there that we need when we're thinking about our presence.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: There are ways to be presence outside of social media, right?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: So when we think about, you know, some of the spaces are places where, you know, we want to be seen and have that presence, what are what's one that LinkedIn can lead us to, or LinkedIn or through that, someone can learn more about?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: It could maybe go to your website or maybe go to, you know, what offerings you have.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: But what what do you see as some of the other spaces or places where someone can be seen or show up?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I would actually bring it back.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, yes, when you're really powerful or showing up well on LinkedIn, I think it translates really well back into the corporate environment.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people, this is something I didn't realize was going to happen, but you can really build a lot of confidence through posting on LinkedIn and practicing and getting your voice out there and and interacting with interesting people.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: And people's perception of you, if you're in a company, when they see you on LinkedIn, they they they think more highly of you, I think.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I've seen is that they're like, wow, like this person is willing to put themselves out there.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they're talking about things that they're an expert in.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: It just elevates your profile even internally.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and that translates, right?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: So when you lead a meeting, for example, like I would say meetings are one of the best places to build your presence, uh, not a sexy space, right?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Meetings, but again, like we were saying, like meetings, we have way too many, they are not done well.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: So the bar's pretty low in terms of what you have to jump over in order to create an even like meeting mildly better meeting, right?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I think you know, the the skills that you learn through LinkedIn, the confidence you build, um, the honing of your expertise, that will translate to meetings when you have to present or even in hallway conversations when you're passing an executive, like all that connection, it's like all again, like the presence, it's all connected in some way and it all works in support of each part of your presence.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's that was one of my favorite parts, honestly, posting more on LinkedIn and seeing like, oh, my profile's elevated within the company.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting tapped for some opportunities I might not have internally and externally as well.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then also I'm just a more confident leader.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: So consistency is a big piece of anything that we do, like whether it's our habits for working out and eating well and the things that we do in our life to kind of grow and learn.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's consistency there, right?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's also consistency when it comes to posting your message, what you're talking about.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, but it cannot be sometimes it's not very exciting to be consistent, or you might not see something happen right away.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think people sometimes expect that um instantly something will be seen by gazillions or whatever, like and then they stop, right?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's one thing around consistency that you think people need to hear and understand when it comes to their being seen and being present?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree with you that being consistent is so important.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: I interviewed uh Corporate Bro, I don't know if you're familiar with his work, but he's an um uh entrepreneur, super funny videos on Instagram.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And he said that, and I've noticed this as well, he's like, people will go to him and say, because he's has such a big following, like, oh, will you engage with my content and help me, you know, make this viral?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he will usually go back to that person and say, if you can post consistently for a few weeks, yeah, like maybe, maybe we can talk.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: And no one has ever come back to him because it's hard.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't see the results right away.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, people are not willing to stick with it.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I've noticed this too, like it is really hard to be consistent.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what people get wrong is okay, they think consistency means, oh, I have to be posting a lot, but consistency means that you're staying consistent with whatever schedule that you've determined for yourself.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: So LinkedIn actually recommends for new creators posting four times a week.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that's a lot, and it will quickly lead to burnout if you're not used to doing that.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I say is set the bar so low for yourself, you know you are going to hit it and you know that you can do more.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, my goal is I'm gonna post once this month.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that was so easy.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I did that.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Let me try twice a month, three times a month.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're at once a week, right?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you just have to build that muscle in such a way that is, you know, we want this to be sustainable.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: So to not necessarily shoot for the stars right away, but to figure out slowly but surely, okay, what can you actually maintain and what do you enjoy doing?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I've done differently, I think, than a lot of people is I focused on building connections versus followers first.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason that I did that was I wanted to know one, I felt very vulnerable being out in social media.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: This I had 80 followers before I started.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: So in 2020, I had 80.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm close to 24,000 now.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's a it's a slow build.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm okay with that, right?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because I really wanted to know who my followers were.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just I think that was just part of the vulnerability thing for me.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I focused on that first, but that also leads to, I think, deeper relationships or deeper conversations, or you can ask a question, or you can, you know, be available for someone too.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a thought about that?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Connections versus followers.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is one better than the other?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need both?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: You touch on touch on a really great point in that connections and the people you can meet on the platform.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's one of the best parts about LinkedIn.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: My call to the listeners would be be okay connecting with strangers.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: You never know.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, they're surely like a lot of them have become your friends now, right?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: And people that you've collaborated with.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it can be really powerful in that way.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's I I like that approach, um, and especially because it made you comfortable.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: It really depends what your goals are.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can have the most followers in the world, but if they're not your ICP or they're not people you would get along with or people you like, like that's not really helpful.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or that, you know, need your help or need your expertise, or you know, maybe in the same space, not the same industry, because I do think it's nice to interact with people who aren't in the same industry, but it's kind of you want both, right?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: You want people who know you in in your world, but also maybe you're being introduced to someone new, right?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people they they try to go for the virality play to grow their followers.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: But a viral post, it's viral and you get a lot of followers.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: But again, like if you're not consistent, it doesn't really matter.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you are consistent, like, are you creating content that is helpful to your audience, that is going to attract the right people to you?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: It might have gone viral, but maybe again, yeah, if it's like not anyone who you would want to collaborate with, if it's not the right group, it doesn't really matter as much.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it won't help as much, right?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Won't have as much impact.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think f you know, trying to go for more followers is great, but with thoughtfulness, intentionality, which is a theme of today.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I love, yeah, making those connections, and and that's like one of the best parts about LinkedIn.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: As we get to the end of our conversation today, one of the things that I think really is pervasive throughout your book is really being your own advocate, advocating for yourself, you know, speaking up in a way that feels aligned, authentic, and you and real, maybe doing the thing that makes you nervous or doesn't feel so good all the time.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: What's something that someone can do just to start today, just to start to, you know, get on that road to being seen, to having that unforgettable presence and being able to lift their career to the next level.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: How do they start it?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh, there's so many things, uh, so many ideas I have.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing I would say is, or I'll say say two things.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: So the first is the mindset piece.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: So understanding that you do need to be proactive, become the CEO of your own career, like I said earlier.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the second thing I think would really be to do an audit of what are your goals.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then once you have a better understanding of your goals, find the people to tell who are going to help you get there and just make sure the right people are in the know because we don't get to these places by ourselves.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about feedback a lot in the book and getting feedback from people and um having them uh you know watch our presentation or listen to us in the meeting.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's really helpful to help us make sure, again, that we are doing the right things and taking the right steps and being seen in the right ways, how we want to be seen, um, in order to make that happen.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: All right, wonderful.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: All the information about Lorraine, her book, Unforgettable Presence is down in the episode notes and learn more about having her speak and connect with you so that you can have that next lift and that next level of your career.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Lorraine.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability to taking the leap, you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.