Latest / Honey Badger Radio / Feminism is just like men's rights! Debating with FabianLiberty | Fireside Chat 244

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Feminism is just like men's rights! Debating with FabianLiberty | Fireside Chat 244 · Honey Badger Radio

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  All right, and we are live. Hello everybody, welcome to Honey Badger
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  Radio. My name is Brian and I am This is the Fireside Chat and
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  I'm joined today by a very special guest. Well, I only know you're
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  like online sort of persona, which is Fabian Liberty. So that's how I
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  you know, put your name on the screen there and you can check out
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  all of his links. I put them in the description of this video.
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  Fabian, thanks for coming on. Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
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  I you know, I had some people reach out and I mean it wasn't
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  super familiar with kind of like the the Honey Badger you know group, if
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  you will, But like people are like, hey, no, no,
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  no, like if you want to talk about libertarianism and talk about men's issues,
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  like these are some of the people to like you should absolutely have a
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  chat with. And I was like, okay, well, you know,
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  yeah, I'll reach out o DM, and you know, I feel like
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  it'd be a fun conversation. So I'm all here for yeah, yeah,
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  no, that's good. Uh you know, real quick, audience knows I'm
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  an anarcho capitalist. I am the end boss of libertarianism, if you will.
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  I'm I'm as libertarian as libertarian gets and that's mostly what my content revolves
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  around, debating and discussing libertarian philosophy or debating you know, lefties in the
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  online space. That's mostly what I do right right, And uh, that's
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  fine. Like I I, you know, have an cap leanings myself.
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  Frankly, I think that men's issues, like, you know, maybe we
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  should like define our terms before we start talking about this, because I think
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  that, uh, we get like as a in a kind of collective blanket
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  way, we get lumped in with all kinds of you know, other I
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  don't know people that maybe they have like louder voices, but they don't really
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  share the same uh principles. And so I guess, like what was the
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  comment? Just to refresh everybody and for people who don't know, what was
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  the comment to sort of spurred this conversation. Do you remember you on Twitter?
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  Way to remember? Okay, you made a comment on Twitter about men's
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  rights activists being just like feminists and yeah, and somebody that is a fan
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  of ours, I think or like they're support support you should Yeah, sick
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  Fox, that's right, and U Sick Fox made a he replied to you
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  I think it was him. If not, forgive me if you if it's
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  not, if you are the person, but you're not that person, just
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  clear it up in the comments and I apologize, but basically said, hey,
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  you should talk to these people because you know, we're not like I
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  don't know, it just doesn't fit in with our modus operandi as it were.
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  Yeah, so let me let me let me say so, so to
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  clear the ground. Right as you were saying, like, what what do
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  I think men's issues are? Right? I think there is you know,
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  deleterious effect towards things that that that you know, the consequences of how society
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  changes, you know, tend to affect you know, one gender one way
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  and another gender the other way because they're different, right, So I would
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  I would be very very vague about what I mean by men's issues. I
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  I you know, I mean, obviously we can get specific in discussions about
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  like you know, child's boored or you know, you know, marriage and
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  family, or about you know, men being able to be open about certain
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  issues, or you know, you know, whatever those things may be.
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  But ultimately I think that's what those are men's issues, right, And the
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  way that I see the manosphere. The people talking about it is kind of
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  all over the place, right. I think you have some men's rights activists
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  that are very whiny, unmanly if you will, and you can get mad
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  at me if you want about that, right, like you know, very
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  much bringing the bitch energy in complaining about being an in cell and things of
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  that nature. You know, it's it's it's doomor pilled, et cetera.
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  And then you have have like you know, red pill people, some of
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  which I think are trying to do well, well meaning, but are often
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  completely ignorant of like how science is conducted or what the studies they're referencing even
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  mean. Then you have grifters like Andrew Tate and people like that that are
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  just saying the wildest things, like you know, Andrew Tate recently said,
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  you know, just went on a whole rant about how you need thirty children
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  and the white race is doomed because you know, we're not cheating on women
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  and we're not like fucking everyone. You know, we don't have multiple mistreaches
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  that we have sex with no condoms and this is why blacks are superior.
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  It's like just just completely he says, Well, I think that not to
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  KT for Andrew Tate, because I can get into like why I think his
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  voice is his voice or people voices like his are more predominant than like,
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  say, ours. I think that there's an advantage that the you know,
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  the sort of delegated establishment. Yeah, it's like on purpose, I think.
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  But what I would say is I think that he would. I think
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  what he was, what what he's trying to do is be provocative so that
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  people talk about him fine engagement. Yeah that yeah, and it works.
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  It does because he's saying the thing that you know, feminists and the media
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  and politicians and academics and intellectuals. It's the stuff that they love to like
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  make what the manisphere is about, or make what you know, this this
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  part of the Internet is about. Well, at the same time, saying
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  what they're saying the quiet part out loud too, right, because they try
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  to be subtle about it. Well, who's they? What do you what
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  do you mean by that? Yeah? I don't mean the Jews just real
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  quick, no, no, no, I mean like I'm me when you
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  say saying the who's saying the quiet part out loud? That's what I know.
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  I honestly don't Andrew Tate is saying the quiet part out loud that I
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  think a lot of frustrated manisphere people or other people are saying that, are
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  you know, into the more polygamy aspect, like like that the the the
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  small group that he's highlighting, you know, like, I think a lot
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  of them are probably not. It's not so much that he's saying the quiet
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  part out loud in the sense that they're not saying it, but that it's
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  like it's it's out there now, right that there is a very very small
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  contingent that has an opinion like that. Yeah, I mean, I don't
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  know, I don't know. There are definitely frustrated, frustrated men out there,
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  and I don't think that them being frustrated makes them part of the manisphere.
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  I think that you can be a frustrated male feminist and you know,
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  end up like murdering your roommate because she wanted to be in a polycule.
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  And I am of the opinion that men should have like the equipment to be
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  able to sort of like understand and navigate the world as it is while we
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  try to essentially like make the let's say, the system more fair and just
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  to be clear on where I stand on that. I think that the comparison
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  to feminists is only fair insofar as perhaps there are some men that are in
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  those spaces that do a lot of complaining and winging and I and I get
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  it, that's true. That's but I can't control that. But our goals,
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  at least as you know here at HBr and the people who work here,
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  we don't all like have the same, uh necessarily the same political beliefs.
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  I think some people still, like you know, desperately grab on to
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  like some degree of leftism, and I reject it completely, but we all
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  are on the same page in terms of what we want. And ultimately what
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  that is is the difference between men's rights activists and feminist is the real important
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  difference is that feminists are statists and every solution. There is no such thing
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  as a libertarian feminist. There have been women like Hannah Cox who can,
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  like, look at her content online, she claims to be a part of
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  Reason, these Reason magazine or something like that. No they're not, but
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  I'm saying that she Yeah, but she brands agree with you that way,
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  right, Yeah, And she is obviously by nature of her being a feminist
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  she must be a statist. And what we want is not to use the
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  state to benefit men, because it can't benefit men. We want the state
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  to get out of men's way, to basically get out of men's lives.
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  But the problem where the struggle is at is that you know, women generally
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  are gravitating towards They tend to gravitate towards the state, with only some exceptions.
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  This is like an old problem, right, women value security over liberty
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  and men value liberty over security. You probably have seen this yourself, if
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  you are indeed the final boss of libertarianism, you have seen that it's not
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  popular with women in general. Right, Yeah, I mean so there are
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  there are incentives that are going to be stronger towards females than males. Right,
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  I mean. So one of the big, one of the big problems
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  that I think we have, and this is especially true in the manisphere because
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  this is really my goal in talking about men's issues at all, is I
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  have three basic goals, three things that I think we need. Right.
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  Number one, we need libertarianism as a political philosophy because we need the non
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  aggression principle because we're actually going to solve these problems. We can't use the
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  state. That's only going to be band aids that are going to cause more
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  problems. Number two, I think we need a return to conservative values,
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  not necessarily conservative relationships values, but values that are not dissigenic. We as
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  a society can't be openly super pro only fans and super openly pro prostitution and
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  degeneracy and hedonism everywhere if we expect to have some normalcy return in relationships as
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  a whole in society. And number three, and this is what I think
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  is I think makes the manosphere and men's issues particularly interesting is that I think
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  that the manosphere and what we're seeing in these issues is actually a symptom of
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  what occurs when trust in institutions is completely eroded, and when the science is
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  supposed to inform us and the science has abandoned us. I think the men's
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  issues in gender like I think that this woke kind of leftist feminist nonsense is
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  actually not as strong people think it's strongest in sociology or in legal or in
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  education. It's actually strongest in sex research, gender based research. That is
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  the strongest place that this is. And so what we are left with is
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  a dearth of scientific research and understanding, and so what you have, I
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  think is a bunch of manosphere people trying to understand science that they're not necessarily
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  trained in or that they haven't like spent their whole life in, and trying
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  to make sense out of what little there is to understand gender and sex and
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  relationship differences, especially as society goes the way of South Korea, where women
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  keep getting more and more feminist and men are starting to become more and more
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  traditional, and there's a lot of bad roadblocks ahead, especially with this lack
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  of science and lack of the non aggression principle being stated so deeply, and
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  then of course those conservativevalues. That's my opinion. Yeah, I mean,
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  like that's all stuff that we have said ourselves. The problem is is that
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  the incentives for women are so overwhelming, like this is the thing what we
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  see it. Okay, until women actually step up to the plate and take
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  a long, hard look at themselves and decide that they're going to essentially resist
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  the temptations for immediate earthly joy whatever you want to call it, right these
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  incentives, then things are only going to get worse. So, yes,
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  you're right that a lot of this sex, this feminist stuff begins in a
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  kind of sexual or like a sex education, but it bleeds out into every
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  single aspect of our society. It is in everything, and so are you
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  and women systems theory. I mean, I've I've I've heard, I've talked
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  to some people about it before. But what what do you want to say
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  about this? Well, no, it's just you know the kind of push
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  pull, right, the push pull institutions versus the individuals in society, right,
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  right, It's like the chicken and egg kind of comes to mind when
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  we when you discuss systems theory, because you're you're positing that women as a
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  whole need to kind of give up the carrot, right and and just stop
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  chasing the carrot, that that the institutions are forcing upon them, and and
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  in in a way that will change the institutions. And yet the kind of
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  the reverse is is often true too, right, which is, if you
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  got rid of the carrot, you know, so it was just an interest
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  that could be that. Yes, that could also be true, but there
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  is a problem with that. Is why I'm not saying that women have to
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  be the only ones. I'm saying they have to be a part of the
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  solution, right for sure. So and right now, like literally there is
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  like women have replaced men in their life with the state and they have been
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  convinced you can say, through propaganda or what or education. I think it's
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  a number of factors. Plus we are also kind of three generations in like
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  after the Great Society and all of these other socialist policies that have essentially paid
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  women to exclude fathers from the home. So we're like we're in the middle
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  of the story now, like you can't you can't put the genie back in
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  the bottle without essentially asking people men and women. But I think in particular
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  women, because I think men are generally ready to do whatever it takes to
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  like, you know, to accomplish their goals. I think most people come
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  into the world and they and this is just a simple thing that doesn't have
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  to be political at all, and it shouldn't be. They want to meet
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  someone of the opposite sex, they want to marry them, and they want
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  to have kids with them, and that's like the best like outcome you can
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  have for a society. But women are not incentivized to do that, and
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  men are starting to respond, you know, some of them retreat into like
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  online you know communities like the like the red Pill or the manspair because they
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  want to understand what's happening. Some of them go and become in cells and
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  and they kind of like go down this zoom or spiral. Right, Yeah,
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  Sigma bads, I go to the gym, I work out, and
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  I don't give a fuck about bitches. That's true. But but in the
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  long run, this is the problem that we're facing without I don't want to
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  go too much of under tangent here, but there is a problem with this
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  is that if people in the West like don't start forming families, like our
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  our birth replates, our replacement rates are low, and the borders are open,
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  and people who will make babies will come in this country and they will
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  like essentially like out popular the people who are here, and like that libertarian
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  dream is not going to happen, like we will be living under a caliphate,
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  like what's happening in in you know, the UK right now, right,
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  So this is the thing, like the the problem, the problem of
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  men and women coming together and forming families is the baseline for every other problem.
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  It comes first. It's where it's where life begins, right, there's
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  a there's another danger here, right, And I know this is a dangerous
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  topic because this book is very dangerous because of a specific chapter about race and
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  IQ. But setting aside, I don't have a problem with that at all.
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  Right, But nevertheless, you know, I don't know you were,
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  and I'm just I'm just saying that that's not really what I'm trying to talk
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  about anyways, Right, Sure is the Bell curve. The main main point
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  of the Bell curve, The actual thesis of the book, if you could,
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  you know, nail it down to one. Thesis is about i Q
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  drain in popular in demographics, right is right? The brain Well, not
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  just from other countries, but but because we used to live in you know,
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  small towns where people very rarely left a small town. No highly intelligent
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  well you know, well to do men would marry, you know, potentially
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  maybe the smart girl in town. But there wasn't this like this. Actually,
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  this is I want to back up just for a second before I get
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  in sure. One of the biggest problems that I have, and that is
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  really difficult with talking about these issues, especially when talking about sociology, is
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  that human beings don't have heuristics for two things. And this is really really
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  important as our society becomes technological more interconnected, as more data gets thrown into
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  things, and so what those two things are are. We don't have accurate
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  heuristics for deviation, standard deviation and standard distribution, right. We don't really
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  understand like logarithmic scale, Like we don't really understand for example, when someone
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  uses the term mid, right, that they're kind of referring to someone between
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  you know, a three seven, Right. But what we think when we
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  think average, we think ten twenty thirty forty percent of the population when a
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  standard distribution is really sixty six point seven percent, right, We don't we
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  don't really think that way because we're supposed to live in communities of like two
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  hundred, right, And and we don't really understand exponentials. We don't really
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  get that, and so I think it becomes difficult for us to deal with
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  things like online dating, for example, where thousands of people are are put
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  into your your kind of your local situation, and all of a sudden,
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  the effects of distributions become so much more drastic. And this is something that
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  is true too of what you're speaking about of not having children and and pair
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  bonding and IQ is that we're very because of this inability to understand the problem
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  with a with a simple heuristic, and because of the immigration, and because
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  of the kind of the lack of breeding, because we're no longer as much
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  of a high trust society. Men cannot trust a woman to marry them and
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  not fuck them and not end up in divorce court. We're losing trust in
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  our society, and that means where a birth rate is declining because of that
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  trust. What you have is a really scary situation where the low IQ immigrants,
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  and I'm not saying all immigrants are low IQ, legal immigrants actually tend
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  to be slightly smarter because of brand drain. When you're talking about seven point
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  two million people coming across the border in one presidency, and most of these
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  people being the poor, the destitute, the unsuccessful, you're talking more criminal
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  or criminal and so what you're dealing with is a situation where you're going to
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  have a very very very small breeding amount in the high IQ, incredibly high
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  IQ people that are moving away from a mass of low IQ breeding and the
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  very class issues that our society kind of tried to help saw by the creation
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  of a middle class and capitalism and markets and liberal democracy is going to disappear
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  because you're going to have you're going to have demographics of high IQ low population
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  and demographics of low IQ high population. And it's it's going to cause more
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  problems than than most of us I think are willing to admit because oh,
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  absolutely absolutely. Yeah, Well that's a distraction, right, we can't have
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  an honest conversation about like what will be the incentives? How does and I
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  mean we don't. I don't know that. It's like a bit of a
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  distraction to get on the topic of demographic change and the border. But yeah,
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  I mean, like I think that like there is a good there is
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  a it's definitely a factor. There's actually a good question to ask because women
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  overwhelmingly voted for this, and I think that Scott Adams he made a tweet
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  about this a while back where he said that women were voting they voted for
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  more men to come in because they wanted to open up like their odds of
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  breeding with an appropriate man by just letting all the men in. I know,
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  I don't know if I believe that. I don't know if I believe
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  that, but but like we are talking in some way, we are talking
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  a bit about hypergamy, which is totally real. So when when for most
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  of human history marriages were arranged, and it wasn't because of some like you
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  know, patriarchal control from the top down or anything. It was mostly about,
• 20:30
  you know, like you just married people that were in your vicinity.
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  So if you lived in a village, the woman the girl in the village,
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  would you know, date you or well, like you would meet your
• 20:40
  parents, or your parents already knew each other, and you were just kind
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  of set up and nobody really thought of it like as a restriction outside of
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  anything except for vicinity, you know. And then as technology technology advanced and
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  we industrialized, if we started going into cities, then it changed that a
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  little bit more. And I'm not even talking about like you know, the
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  aristocracy, which mostly married for like political reasons. And now that we live
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  in the modern world, no, no, that's that's another I'm saying,
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  that's a different thing. But now that we live in the modern world,
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  dating has become like globalized, right essentially, or all most globalized because we
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  all have the world at our fingertips and we can meet people from anywhere.
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  But what ends up happening is is that you do end up with things going
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  like women are constantly thinking about like, you know, are they is this
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  the right choice? Do I am? I? You know, getting the
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  best deal with the best bang for the book, the for my buck or
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  whatever, and they end up you know, swiping Like what is it when
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  you reject somebody? I don't do online dating? I'm married? Does it
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  swipe right on everybody that you don't like? And so, you know,
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  you get like these extremely skewed statistics and women's preferences are basically through the roof
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  because they have this idea, like this sort of overinflated sense of self and
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  most men are going to talk about yeah, I want to talk about that
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  and a couple other things because I think, I think this is a prime
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  example this This is a bit of a myth, and this is a prime
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  example of what has happened because science and researchers have abandoned this issue completely in
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  favor of junk pseudo scientific bullshit that the feminists put for There is this myth
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  based off of like tender and OkCupid studies, et cetera. Right that kind
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  of exaggerates the female experience of like whom they choose and whom they don't choose.
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  Right, So there are a couple of confounding variables when we look at
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  it. Number one is that some women are swiping left a bunch out of
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  a habit and because they have no desire to because they're looking for backups,
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  or because they're even though they're in a relationship so they're cheating, or because
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  they are because they need some type of validation. They want to see what's
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  out there so they're questioning, or simply because they're testing the waters even though
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  they don't have a desire to actually date. And these are things that while
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  yes, men do do these things, they do them to the much less
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  degree. So this kind of skews the data right, like the datas are
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  really controlling for these things. And then another thing about this data is,
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  you know, it's a you know, is that it always focuses on who's
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  doing online dating, right, so that already is selecting a specific type of
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  female versus other types of And there's like there's a bunch of other confounding variables.
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  Another one being that men get desperate and so they swipe often people that
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  they won't actually date. Then they'll be rude or disgusting towards those people because
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  they're frustrated. And then women kind of cloister themselves and become even more protective
• 23:45
  of themselves, so they become even more like you have to be perfect,
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  right, And it's less about women preferences in the dating market and more about
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  the kind of the fucked upness around the way our brains don't really work well
• 23:59
  with online dating. Yeah sure, I mean I'm not really like doing the
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  PUA thing. I'm just using this as an example of how the landscape has
• 24:10
  changed and what what what incentives women respond to in terms of like partners and
• 24:18
  also family and all this, like women are waiting longer to have children,
• 24:22
  women are like there was a do you know Tom Woods? I assume Tom
• 24:27
  Woods podcasts, Like so, yeah, he had a man on that has
• 24:32
  a website called natalism dot org and we and they did a whole show together
• 24:36
  and we covered it on our channel that talked about the declining birth rates and
• 24:40
  that the thing that I was taking anti natalism in my head, and I
• 24:42
  was like, no, no, no, it was called natalism because there
• 24:45
  yeah, yeah, it was pro natalist, but in there. What this
• 24:49
  is the thing that was the shocking bit of data because obviously I don't I'm
• 24:52
  not in the business of matchmaking, you know, like in terms of that,
• 24:56
  whatever you guys do, whatever you think is best. I think there's
• 25:00
  probably like better ways to find a partner than I definitely know it's better than
• 25:03
  online dating. I think you should just look in your community. But but
• 25:08
  what what I think is worth bringing up this is going back to the birth
• 25:11
  rates issue, is that the data that this guest on Tom Wood Show brought
• 25:17
  up and I'm sorry I don't remember his name, but the website's called natalism
• 25:18
  dot org show Native Americans and immigrants are like the only people that are even
• 25:23
  replacing themselves. Yeah, somewhat right, And and I think like in West
• 25:27
  Africa if you look at the Golden yeah, in the US. Right,
• 25:33
  So the the what what is discovered is this though, of the women that
• 25:40
  ended up not having children, only ten percent did not end up having children
• 25:45
  for either medical reasons like they you know, they're infertile, there was some
• 25:48
  problem, or they had some kind of like actual desire not to have kids,
• 25:55
  like they actually stuck to their guns and said I don't want kids.
• 25:57
  There are some women like that, just like they're are some men like that.
• 26:00
  And I wouldn't be the one to say that you have to have kids.
• 26:03
  But eighty percent or eighty five percent, maybe even higher than that,
• 26:07
  of women that did not end up having kids, it was not because they
• 26:11
  didn't want kids. It was because they a waited too long and then the
• 26:15
  window of fertility passed. It just didn't happen. They didn't find a man
• 26:19
  that was like, maybe there were some good men that they passed on because
• 26:23
  they were hoping for something better and it just did not happen for them.
• 26:26
  And it's it's actually very tragic when you look at how massive that is,
• 26:33
  because I think that there is like a very big push in our culture,
• 26:38
  in our in our social culture, to ask women to not see family as
• 26:44
  important, to not want kids, et cetera. And they're trying to do
• 26:47
  this with men as well. But the truth is most people, most people
• 26:49
  across the board, do want families and children. So what the effect is
• 26:55
  and there's a lot of factors we can get into as to why that's happening.
• 26:57
  I think that there is a push to reduce the population, and I
• 27:03
  think it's coming top down, and I think there's plenty of evidence to show
• 27:07
  that, Like there's you know, these climate alarmists and these you know,
• 27:12
  it's just kind of like a general anti natalist push and it's all in you
• 27:17
  know, I think it is having some effects and we're seeing this now,
• 27:21
  so that's kind of like what But but again, here's the thing I just
• 27:26
  want to say. As a men's issues advocate, I don't like to say
• 27:32
  rights because I think that's I don't like the word the word rights gets thrown
• 27:36
  around. I don't think it up plenty of right, Yeah, people call
• 27:40
  a humans. Yeah, But the the reason why we call ourselves men's rights
• 27:45
  activist is because it was used against us as a pejorative by feminists and we
• 27:48
  just kind of said, okay, then whatever. But like there are some
• 27:52
  things like I'm I'm against circumcision, for example. I think that's a violation
• 27:56
  of bodily autonomy and that is a right. But mostly I just say issues
• 28:00
  because a lot of this stuff does come from the state. It's things like
• 28:04
  the family courts and all of these you know, child custody laws and the
• 28:08
  welfare state and other things that I do think affect men in a lot of
• 28:15
  different ways. So that's you have a bunch here. Yeah, you have
• 28:18
  a bunch to talk about here. So you know, maybe setting aside the
• 28:22
  arranged marriage thing, I have a slight disagreement with you, but but I'm
• 28:26
  curious, you know, just sort of like a little bit back. I'm
• 28:30
  not promoting arranged marriages. I'm saying that's not enough history. That's what it
• 28:33
  was. Yeah, will you had you said this thing that there was like
• 28:36
  kind of like a feminist myth about this was done for patriarchal reasons, And
• 28:40
  I think I actually kind of disagree with you a little bit in the sense
• 28:42
  that I kind of agree with the feminists to a certain degree here that it
• 28:47
  was done for patriarchal reasons a little bits as the man and male of the
• 28:51
  head of the household, Because when you're giving over your fourteen fifteen, sixteen
• 28:55
  year old daughter to a twenty four to twenty five year old man, you
• 29:00
  are, in a sense transferring ownership of your daughter. Now, they wouldn't
• 29:06
  have been an ownership in slavery in the way that we would have, but
• 29:07
  it would be an understanding that your daughter is not a fully kind of a
• 29:12
  fully autonomous individual. That goes and goes out forthrightly on their own to get
• 29:19
  their own property, to build their own farm. Right Like, there is
• 29:22
  an expectation that she does need protection and that she does need a man,
• 29:26
  and that she does need someone that is willing to do the things for her
• 29:30
  in order for them to create a family, and there is a certain passing
• 29:33
  off of one. And I think that's kind of part of what people are
• 29:38
  missing in is kind of fucking up our understanding of sexual autonomy around age,
• 29:44
  because we're starting to see feminists now that are like, oh, you like
• 29:48
  women under twenty five. Did you know their prefunnal cortex isn't developed? And
• 29:52
  tell you know, somewhere between the ages of twenty four and twenty six,
• 29:55
  you like that twenty two year old girl, You're a fucking pervert. And
• 29:57
  I think there's actually kind of some truth to that as well, which is
• 30:00
  that, no, you're not a fucking pervert because you like a twenty two
• 30:04
  year old girl. But there is an understanding that, yeah, there is
• 30:07
  a certain level of autonomy that one gains over time and with the development of
• 30:12
  their brain, and that we did used to have a system might not be
• 30:17
  the best system but a system that counteracted this, which was you don't get
• 30:21
  to marry my daughter unless you prove yourself to the family that you're going to
• 30:25
  protect her, that you do love her, that you're going to work hard
• 30:26
  for her, and that you have the means of doing all of those things.
• 30:30
  Because I'm gifting my daughter to you. This is my most precious thing.
• 30:33
  Please protect her. Sure, well, what's okay? So what's the
• 30:37
  expectation on women in that scenario childbirth usually childbirth? And what's the expectation on
• 30:44
  sure, what's the expectation on men in that scenario? Protection? You know,
• 30:51
  finances? Would you say that those yeah, yeah, would you say
• 30:56
  that those things without getting into like you know, like how much or whatever,
• 31:00
  but would you say those things are relatively like, I don't know,
• 31:03
  balanced, Like does it mean I think it makes sense because men can't have
• 31:07
  babies and women are vulnerable while carrying children. I'm not saying that this is
• 31:12
  like, you know, I would say, I don't think. I don't
• 31:15
  think. I don't think it's skews in favor of women as much as people
• 31:19
  think. I'm not. No, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying
• 31:22
  that, but I think that I think that it is what it is.
• 31:26
  That's kind of like I'm not trying to, like, you know, say
• 31:29
  that this is better than this. I'm just saying this is just what it
• 31:32
  is. Like you know, I'm trying. I was just trying to answer
• 31:33
  your question, be real. Just no, it's okay. I just wanted
• 31:37
  to I'm just making sure that we know that like my position on it is
• 31:41
  to it is the nature of us as humans. It's just the way it's
• 31:47
  going to work out. And I think that the way that we've arranged marriage
• 31:51
  and family for most of our history, probably for the most part, is
• 31:56
  a decent model. And I think that this this thing that we're going through
• 32:00
  now post sexual revolution, I think that that's all very recent stuff. I
• 32:05
  mean, yeah, what boys and girls probably got married pretty early on so
• 32:10
  they can like you know, start families and and all that. And it's
• 32:15
  fine. Again, as my job here and like doing this channel is not
• 32:22
  about like telling people how they should live their life or arrange their families,
• 32:24
  but rather we are like it's to acknowledge that we do have a problem.
• 32:30
  We have a problem with the courts. I don't know if you saw that
• 32:35
  baseball player I'm forgetting his name. He was like a famous pitcher and a
• 32:40
  woman like did a false allegation, claimed that she beat that he beat her
• 32:45
  so that she can get a payday. And it was recently found out he
• 32:49
  had this whole fight. He lost his job. He had to like plays
• 32:52
  playing for a Mexican team now because he had to leave the country because everyone
• 32:57
  thinks he's a piece of garbage, right, And that's just funny. It's
• 33:00
  just funny that like he's playing was accused wife beater, plays for Mexico and
• 33:06
  they love him, saying he is machismo well to the max. No,
• 33:09
  no, no, even over there there are journalists saying, like, you
• 33:13
  know, hey, what about those things about you beating up that? But
• 33:16
  he's he's essentially like proved his innocence. He had all the receipts, kept
• 33:21
  everything, and the guy is like super rich. Right. But the thing
• 33:24
  is is that what we talk about is, Okay, this guy lucked out.
• 33:28
  But a lot of men go through stuff like this. They lose their
• 33:30
  kids if you look at you know, and it's always got involves the state,
• 33:34
  Like there's literal incentives from the government for women to distance their children from
• 33:39
  their fathers, and this is like one of the it's I mean, like,
• 33:44
  I'm from Chicago now. I live in Virginia now, but I was
• 33:47
  born and raised in Chicago. What two Oh you are? Oh, I'm
• 33:52
  in Roanoke. What part you want? Bye? I'm in Colonial Heights,
• 33:57
  Petersburg. Oh, okay, So that's cool. It makes sense a lot
• 34:01
  of libertarians out here. But I was born and raised in Chicago, and
• 34:07
  I saw how bad the crime is and I couldn't couldn't help. But notice
• 34:14
  that the number one statistic. And they want us all talking about race.
• 34:17
  They want us all talking about these other things because they're basically trying to push
• 34:22
  for socialist policies, not as a fix but just to like get something out
• 34:25
  of it. But the real issue is we're looking at destroyed families because fathers
• 34:30
  have been pushed out of the home because mothers, single moms were incentivized to
• 34:36
  essentially exclude men from the home. And this is impacting the black population by
• 34:40
  leagues ahead of everybody else. But all the other groups are catching up.
• 34:45
  And I'm like, well, this is the most basic men's issue, is
• 34:51
  father's rights? Now? Are there deadbeats? Of course I'm not saying that
• 34:53
  there aren't. But the thing is is that there are no there are no
• 35:01
  things in place to essentially cause women to make, you know, like educated
• 35:07
  decisions about who they choose to reproduce with. We have all these things in
• 35:14
  place, we have protection, we got abortion, we got all this stuff,
• 35:16
  and yet we still have this problem. And I think it's just like
• 35:21
  it's you know, yeah, engage with that, right, like, because
• 35:24
  we're talking about we're talking about crime now, and crime is its associated fatherhood
• 35:29
  and the incentive structures there. So not right, No, No, No,
• 35:32
  I didn't say it wasn't I was saying I was just descriptively laying the
• 35:36
  like what we're talking about. Yeah, so I would say that it's that
• 35:39
  is, without a doubt, a very a very big part of the equation.
• 35:44
  Right. Obviously we never want to do a univeraried analysis, but but
• 35:46
  I do understand what you mean that that is a huge part of it.
• 35:50
  Some of that goes away when you control for like poverty, right because obviously
• 35:54
  single mother is going to be poorer than a family, you know, under
• 35:59
  most circumstances, et cetera. But but yes, for the most like and
• 36:02
  we have unlike with most correlational kind of research. We do have the mechanisms
• 36:08
  for what we're talking about here, right, which is like rough and tumble
• 36:10
  play super important, especially in the couple of years early development. And also
• 36:17
  the problem is worse than the data purports. And the reason the problem is
• 36:22
  worse than the data purports is because the data doesn't very often we don't discuss
• 36:28
  school age children and the followlessness rates of children at a certain age, because
• 36:34
  what ends up happening is when you look at the followlessness rate as a whole,
• 36:37
  you're looking at men that are still in the lives of let's say a
• 36:39
  one year old or a two year old, and it's like that is important
• 36:45
  for development. As I said, rough and tumble play is important, right,
• 36:46
  But when we're talking about let's say, what's the followlessness rate of children
• 36:51
  in the inner city in a black community that's lower socioeconomic status for middle school
• 36:57
  and above all of a sudden, that percentage is actually ten fifteen percent higher
• 37:02
  than the general overall percentage. Right, So there are a lot of issues
• 37:07
  there for sure, and the incentive structure on those is is really problematic.
• 37:12
  I would also say that there are you know, Chicago's kind of a special
• 37:15
  case with like extra problems. Right. Oh yeah, sure, corrupt government
• 37:22
  and all that, But I'm saying the biggest one. The biggest one is
• 37:24
  that crime isn't necessarily correlated to poverty so much as it's correlated to relative poverty.
• 37:30
  Right, So when you're poor and you see someone next to you that
• 37:34
  has a lot of money, that tends to like influence crime. Whereas,
• 37:38
  like you know, poverty in the country, where everybody's poor together, they
• 37:43
  kind of have an honor system, there's a lot less crime. And so
• 37:45
  Chicago's special because they took all of the projects and to fix the problem,
• 37:52
  they spread them out throughout the entire city and it caused a massive spike in
• 37:55
  the crime and they still haven't recovered from it because they did the worst thing
• 38:00
  you could possibly do, which is spread poor people next to middle class and
• 38:05
  wealthy people because it just infuriates them. But yeah, no, I definitely
• 38:08
  see your point there. Well, I think like you made a point about
• 38:14
  evidence of what I'm saying about the science. We lack science to really understand
• 38:17
  these problems because there's no researchers that are really doing that. There's like a
• 38:22
  couple of men's rights people right that are writing books, But there should be
• 38:27
  like just as much as there's government money going to like trans the fucking Palestinian
• 38:34
  kids, or fucking government money to you know, just study the effects of
• 38:37
  a frog population in geothermal you know, you know, power plants to make
• 38:44
  sure that the temperature doesn't rise too much. Yet there's like no studies beyond
• 38:49
  feminist crap on families, on the effects of men on you know, all
• 38:53
  of these things. There's no good research out there. Well that's probably not
• 38:58
  an accident. I mean like yeah, I mean, like let's let's be
• 39:02
  real. We're talking about uh, you know, universities and uh, intellectuals
• 39:09
  there there's there is no interest to address the problem. Like most of the
• 39:14
  time when I get into an argument with feminists or just like normy types,
• 39:19
  which I think most most people on earth have some feminist leanings. They have
• 39:24
  some they believe some of the myths of this history, and so it it
• 39:30
  informs their opinions on other things. Uh, they will generally not care about
• 39:35
  that data. And I agree with you, there should be more of it.
• 39:37
  And yes, there are m ras and uh MRA adjacent folks writing about
• 39:40
  this stuff, but that just that just supports what I'm saying when I say
• 39:44
  that, you know, when when you go on Twitter and the loudest voices
• 39:49
  that have any like I don't know that are even even in the same ballpark
• 39:53
  as like what we talk about are guys like Andrew Tait and fresh and fit,
• 39:58
  And I can promise you that that's not an accident either, Like if
• 40:01
  you promote the craziest people that have the wildest opinions, that are saying the
• 40:06
  most like you know, easily, let's say, the most wild stuff that
• 40:10
  people can characterize as representative of everything that we've been doing for ten years,
• 40:15
  which has been looking at the data, looking at the studies, looking at
• 40:20
  where this comes from. Yeah, that is no surprise that some people are
• 40:22
  going to have negative opinions on all of us because they see what he's saying.
• 40:27
  But he gets paid because the algorithm favors that kind of content and it
• 40:31
  doesn't favor ours engagement, right, It always favors negative engagement because negative engagement
• 40:37
  keeps people glued in, because most algorithms are designed for advertisers. And it's
• 40:40
  very dumb. And I think we're probably going to see this go away soon.
• 40:45
  And the reason I say, I think we're going to see this go
• 40:45
  way soon. Is because I've been tracking corporate research, and corporate research is
• 40:50
  now pretty they're pretty well aware that the value of engagement is actually not that
• 40:55
  great because of the way that negative engagement next to an advertising campaign can actually
• 41:02
  cause people to have negative opinions about your brand as opposed to positive bitiness.
• 41:07
  Because most corporate you know, online branding is about touches, right, It's
• 41:13
  like I need my product to be seen six or seven times then people will
• 41:15
  think about my product. But if people associate your product with a negative video
• 41:20
  that they watched, even subconsciously, it can be really really bad, especially
• 41:23
  for brands like that are really innocuous, like toothpaste and things like that,
• 41:28
  right where people don't have any political feelings about Colgate. But setting all that
• 41:32
  aside, what I wanted to say is like, this is really what I
• 41:37
  want to hone in on, is is the science being so bad has caused
• 41:43
  this problem that I'm seeing where when I when I look kind of because I'm
• 41:46
  not a Manosphere person per se, I mean, I have some opinions I
• 41:50
  do online streaming, but that's not like my brand. If my brand is
• 41:52
  libertarianism and I have a mostly male audience, which you know, I will
• 41:58
  say that I don't think those two things are that far apart. Now.
• 42:00
  I mean, like, if you're seriously trying to address like the problems between
• 42:05
  men and women in society, yeah, yeah, you're yeah, you're gonna
• 42:07
  You're gonna head this way. The only problem is, I will say,
• 42:09
  and I'll let you finish, is that I think that a lot of the
• 42:13
  world is not ready for libertarian perspective. I think that too many people are
• 42:20
  status and it's gonna like take it's gonna take a lot. But I'm I'm
• 42:23
  I'm in generally in supportive. This means Fabian liberty because I because you know,
• 42:29
  the Fabian socialists that pushed the concept of socialism one policy at a time.
• 42:35
  I realized it's like, I think incrementalism is probably gonna be needed.
• 42:38
  I don't want it, you know, I'd love for it to happen instantly.
• 42:40
  But anyways, about the science, and this is kind of thing is
• 42:45
  that like what I see happen is is I see people really actually trying to
• 42:50
  understand the issues with big audiences and big voices, trying to understand things.
• 42:54
  But because they lack. I don't I don't want to insulting to all of
• 43:00
  the big manisphere people here, but hopefully you know they don't take it too
• 43:05
  personally. But they lack a foundation of understanding how research is done, what
• 43:09
  statistics actually mean, or how to implement them, and understand the difference between
• 43:14
  correlation and causation, which is like you know, elementary school shit, but
• 43:17
  like also like understanding mechanisms and understanding overlap, right, and so like for
• 43:24
  a couple I wanted to bring a couple examples because these are like really popular
• 43:28
  things. I think we can all like go yep, and then we can
• 43:30
  all go yeah, those are normal people talk about all the time. And
• 43:34
  then so body count being one, right, body count is something I see
• 43:37
  red pill people talk about often all the time, and they have no idea
• 43:42
  what the fuck they're talking about. They they talk about body count, and
• 43:45
  they talk about the science like they've read the science, right, And they'll
• 43:49
  talk about pair bonding. And this is a prime example of correlation and causation,
• 43:54
  because a woman's body count is a really good heuristic, right, Like
• 43:59
  if a woman tells you she had sex with one hundred people, it's a
• 44:01
  really good red flag that like, you're probably not gonna have a successful relationship
• 44:05
  with that person. And if she says she's had sex with under ten people
• 44:08
  and she's honest, right, that's a fairly decent curist. But people don't
• 44:14
  understand the mechanism that's occurring here. And so, like you can find this
• 44:17
  research on there's a Christian organization Families Foundation, I can't remember. You can
• 44:23
  look at their research where they tracked how many sexual partners, and what they
• 44:28
  found was like, obviously the number one best successful relationship was virgin, right,
• 44:34
  but then surprisingly one and two previous sexual partners tended to be worse more
• 44:40
  likely to divorce than three, four, five, six, seven, eight
• 44:44
  nine. And that's because they had something to compare it to. But they
• 44:46
  hadn't really tested themselves out there, right, So now they're kind of questioning
• 44:51
  the validity of the of the relationship that they're in, et cetera. And
• 44:54
  so I have yet to see this study, So this is just a hypothesis.
• 44:58
  But sure, there's there's no link between this concept of pair bonding with
• 45:05
  how many sexual partners you have. Instead, there's a correlation there. And
• 45:09
  so when I look at the research, I go, oh, well,
• 45:12
  what it appears to me and it seems kind of obvious honestly, is that
• 45:16
  what you're seeing is there's two types of girls, broadly speaking, a girl
• 45:22
  that will have one night stands and fuck random people, and then there's the
• 45:25
  type of girl who won't fuck random people, won't have one night stands,
• 45:30
  but will have sex with someone that they're in a serious, committed relationship with.
• 45:35
  And so often we'll look at BodyCount as like a number that like destroys
• 45:37
  the woman's psyche, and then we'll have red pillars talking about you need a
• 45:42
  virgin or you need as close to a virgin as possible, And then like
• 45:45
  you have women that have had sex with six or seven dudes who were all
• 45:49
  their boyfriends for longer than two or three months, and it's like that woman
• 45:53
  doesn't have an issue pair bonding, right like that that body count doesn't fucking
• 45:58
  matter there. Like what matters is like whether or not she treats sex as
• 46:01
  like something with someone that she loves in a committed relationship. And that's just
• 46:07
  like one example. Yeah, I mean again, I don't have a problem
• 46:12
  with that. I think that in general, like you know, it's not
• 46:16
  as simple as like what's your body count? But if it's really high,
• 46:21
  I think that is a red flag. I think that a man can still
• 46:23
  try try to save her, try to fix her if he wants. I
• 46:27
  don't think it's a good idea personally. But again, I'm not in the
• 46:30
  business of necessarily giving relationship advice. I've I've I've found my unicorn. I'm
• 46:37
  done, you know what I mean. Like, I'm not saying the relationship
• 46:39
  I know. I know I'm saying, don't be yes, don't be a
• 46:45
  don't be a simp. But and that's something that I do think. I
• 46:47
  think that Like, ultimately, again I can't I'm not going to answer for
• 46:53
  like what these Manisphere guys that are are the loudest voices say. I think
• 47:00
  that, you know, And again it is just another obstacle for us to
• 47:01
  overcome. I have I rolled with people like Warren Ferrell and Paul Elam and
• 47:07
  people who have written books some of the subjects. Yeah, I've read some
• 47:10
  of Warren Farrell's stuff. Yeah yeah, And these guys are not really good.
• 47:15
  He did really good work on Rough and Tumble play as I was mentioning
• 47:17
  earlier, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean you know he's Yeah,
• 47:21
  he's cool. I mean I don't agree with him politically, but I
• 47:24
  think that he's made you know, it's done work that you know, I
• 47:29
  can only have tremendous respect for. But again, this comes back to what
• 47:32
  the issue is is for us is you know, we we can't we're having
• 47:38
  trouble reaching people because our content, which is it's not necessarily positive. I
• 47:45
  mean, it's just like kind of like pointing out like this is how severe
• 47:47
  things are, and we will you know, rebut rebut like various you know,
• 47:53
  sort of like articles or studies will look at them, and a lot
• 47:57
  of it is crap because it comes out of academia, and academia is in
• 48:00
  bed with the state as well, and so these are things that just won't
• 48:02
  This is the problem, right, we won't get good studies because good studies
• 48:07
  cost money and it's very hard to build that foundation. It's just kind of
• 48:13
  like you know, wanting to lobby for men's issues on the political stage.
• 48:17
  That's that's it's it's a it's a it's a pipe dream, like nobody cares
• 48:22
  about men enough to like actually affect policy until you know, you get into
• 48:25
  a crisis situation, which we may be approaching. I think genetically speaking,
• 48:31
  that's a good thing. I do think I in a weird way. I
• 48:35
  do think it is absolutely good that men care more about women than they care
• 48:39
  about men's issues. I think that should be the case because women are like
• 48:45
  low you know, Doom comes to any society that doesn't venerate the female,
• 48:52
  especially the pregnant female. Simping is an important part of human society. The
• 48:59
  problem is kind of a similar situation with like immigration. Right, you can
• 49:05
  either have immigration or you can have welfare, but you can't have both.
• 49:07
  You can either have a patriarchal society that protects women and simps for them and
• 49:13
  believes them even when they're kind of bullshitting, but you can't give them fucking
• 49:16
  the ability to vote, and you can't give them the power. You can't
• 49:20
  give them political power and have that. You can either have one or the
• 49:23
  other. You can't have both. If you're gonna have a militarian society where
• 49:28
  women are given every opportunity, every everything that a man has in those regards,
• 49:35
  then at the same time, you can't be patriarchal. You can't sen
• 49:37
  Well, this is yeah, this is the this is the big conundrum.
• 49:43
  We're in right now is essentially well, let's just look at it as it
• 49:49
  is now. Okay, So decades of feminist or you could say, uh
• 49:57
  ginocentric policymaking from before the suffrage movement till today has essentially created a situation where
• 50:05
  men's obligations have not changed a women's liberties have right, So men are in
• 50:14
  the same position they were before World War One. And if we get to
• 50:19
  the point and like you know, they are starting to look that way,
• 50:22
  right, yeah, we will be conscripted and expected to die for a country
• 50:25
  that doesn't actually respect us. And this is going to be a problem because
• 50:29
  you can see, like the rejection of going to war is a good one.
• 50:32
  Don't get me wrong again, I'd rather we didn't have to do that.
• 50:36
  But the reason behind it being that they're like, why would I die
• 50:39
  for a country that hates me for what I am? Right? Because that's
• 50:44
  how bad it is today. But here's where the real issue is. You
• 50:49
  were just talking about this. In order for you to be able to protect
• 50:54
  something effectively, you must have authority over it. So and the the issue
• 51:01
  is is that men are expected to essentially be responsible for women, but they
• 51:07
  have no authority over women. So so just a quick example, very quick
• 51:12
  example, Carolyn An Harlows, who is a libertarian, big, big libertarian,
• 51:16
  right. I deeply respect her as as an LP individual. You know,
• 51:22
  she works in Colorado, they do amazing work, and she's one of
• 51:25
  the few people that protected mesu's caucus when there's horrible things going on within the
• 51:30
  LP, right, Like, she is a respected you know, former treasure
• 51:34
  She's very very respecting in the LP. But she she has this one weird
• 51:37
  feminist weakness where she keeps coming up and saying, you know, oh,
• 51:43
  you know, I was on the subway and there was this you know,
• 51:45
  homeless man accosting this woman and none of where were the men, none of
• 51:49
  the men. And it's like, and I don't want to tell her because
• 51:52
  I know she's not really part of the problem in voting for the things that
• 51:57
  did this, because she's a hardcore libertarian. But there's every part of me
• 52:00
  wants to shake her and yeah, but dude, not going to jail to
• 52:04
  protect you, like fuck off. Right, She's still a woman though.
• 52:07
  This is the thing that another thing that we got are like come to grips
• 52:10
  with like a lot of what we are experiencing does not simply boil down to
• 52:15
  like, you know, data and incentives, and there's nature going on.
• 52:19
  Women have a nature, and the most libertarian woman and the people who work
• 52:23
  here at Honey Badger Radio are some of the most hardcore libertarian like and cap
• 52:28
  women that I've ever known. But they are still women at the end of
• 52:30
  the day. There's a there is a nature that comes out that they have
• 52:35
  to fight against. My wife does it too all the time, and I
• 52:37
  mean she's probably more right wing than me on a lot of stuff. So
• 52:42
  I mean, I don't know, not by much. But if you're the
• 52:45
  mother of if you're the mother of my children and we're in a relationship,
• 52:47
  I extend that to what I extend to you, the same thing I would
• 52:52
  extend to my children, which is an extension of my legacy myself. There's
• 52:57
  an extension. Yeah, But like some random chick on the subway, I'm
• 53:00
  not gonna go to of course, I thought a homeless guy and then he
• 53:05
  ended up drying and then I go to prison like that. Fucking Yeah,
• 53:08
  Daniel Penny, Yeah for sure. Yeah. It's like you guys wanted this.
• 53:14
  You wanted a society where where the police and the state have ultimate authority.
• 53:20
  But but us as men can no longer live in even the slightest bit
• 53:23
  of well, that's not even the not even the comments have it like that's
• 53:27
  that what's going on in New York is as a definite byproduct of you know,
• 53:30
  a bunch of bat Yeah, so, and and again I think it
• 53:36
  is there is a Unfortunately, despite all of the laws and policy, et
• 53:42
  cetera, it boils down to there is a nature in men and in nature
• 53:45
  in women. It's it's being expressed. And I think that the reason I've
• 53:49
  said this too, and I don't know what your thoughts on this are.
• 53:52
  I think that in general there are two wings of politics because there are two
• 53:58
  sexes, and that that's how they are expressed. One of them is more
• 54:01
  status and I think that women tend towards that because there's more security in that,
• 54:06
  there's more at least that's the idea. And the other is more like,
• 54:10
  you know, liberty oriented, and I think that men want that,
• 54:14
  and I think that that's the reason why men vote more, you know,
• 54:17
  towards liberty and small government, and women tend to vote towards more big government.
• 54:23
  And except for except for This is actually an interesting thing. Women who
• 54:29
  are married and have children are more likely to vote in line with their husbands
• 54:34
  because they suddenly know, like where the taxation is affecting them, whereas a
• 54:40
  single woman or a single mother doesn't care because she's getting money from the state
• 54:44
  no matter what. Yeah, exactly, and they're involved. Right. So
• 54:49
  Robert Bella has a really good book. Robert bell Is obviously he's dead Harvard
• 54:53
  Press, and unfortunately he didn't get to finish the second But there's a book
• 54:58
  called Theory, and it's evolution in religion from the Axial to the Paleo or
• 55:05
  from the Paleolithic to the Axial age, and in it he discusses the psychology
• 55:10
  of from the very beginning of trying to understand where religions come from, right,
• 55:15
  where do the concept of spirituality and the evolution of religion, which is
• 55:19
  especially important to understanding our current religions. Uh, you know, understanding mono
• 55:23
  evolutionary monotheism and the Semitic religions, et cetera. But there is a you
• 55:29
  know, in the beginning he talks about, you know, trying to isolate
• 55:32
  what it is that makes the human species unique compared to other human species to
• 55:38
  other primate species other than just IQ and opposable thumbs, because something had to
• 55:46
  come before IQ and ipposable thumbs. Like why you know, like like all
• 55:51
  these other primates have opposable thumbs, but they don't have our IQ. They
• 55:53
  don't have what we have? What what? What was the spark? And
• 55:57
  as far as he's concerned, and you bunch researchers, primate researchers, psychologist,
• 56:01
  cetera, that there is, there is these things that are present within
• 56:06
  mammals, but only humans have all of them. And it's these kind of
• 56:08
  these four things. One is maternal instincts. The other is paternal instincts.
• 56:15
  Right, so many, many, many mammals will have maternal instincts, and
• 56:22
  some of them, even like Bonobo's, will have paternal instincts, but in
• 56:25
  most mammals, you don't have that, right, so you don't have a
• 56:28
  you don't have a desire for the man to care for a child and the
• 56:30
  woman to care for a child as a team collective together. And then the
• 56:35
  other two things are disposition to dominate others and then a disposition to resent domination.
• 56:43
  These are kind of the four unique evolutionary building blocks as far as he's
• 56:46
  concerned as to why we became humans, developed religion, developed society, developed
• 56:52
  culture, et cetera. And I think there's some truth to that in this
• 56:55
  concept that there is a there's a poll in there's a poll between these two
• 57:00
  seemingly paradoxical values, which is, I want to dominate the other and I
• 57:06
  want things to be in my favor, but I hate the idea of being
• 57:08
  dominated. And I think that's probably a better explanation for the two political systems
• 57:16
  of overly overly enlarged government for security and safety and then liberty. I think
• 57:23
  that those things are actually fundamental, not necessarily a male female. Now do
• 57:27
  I think that female tendencies and again this is that issue with humans lacking a
• 57:31
  heuristic see the distribution, Yea, I do think, yeah, I do
• 57:37
  think that women tend more, very heavily to favor this disposition to dominate,
• 57:45
  and I do think men tend to favor this resentment of being dominated, this
• 57:52
  disposition to resent the idea that I lack liberty. But I think I think
• 57:57
  it's a core fundamental thing, and it does. It does kind of vend
• 58:00
  diagram a little bit with maternal instincts and like, you know, because the
• 58:02
  family life is communist, right, it's everyone gets a fair share, everyone
• 58:07
  gets opportunities, everyone gets you know, it's it's the mother's One of the
• 58:10
  mother's most sacred duties in a family is to ensure that nobody is treated unfairly
• 58:17
  and that everybody gets a fair shake, everybody gets the same opportunity, everybody's
• 58:22
  voice is heard. Right, that the husband isn't too authoritarian with one child,
• 58:25
  right, That is, that is what it means to really manage a
• 58:29
  home. It's more than just having the kids and raising the kids. It
• 58:32
  also means controlling the man's behavior in the household. That's also part of a
• 58:37
  woman's duty. I think, yeah, sure, when you give them political
• 58:39
  power, that's when it becomes the problem. But that's it. But that's
• 58:44
  actually very useful for people, not political power, right, because they can
• 58:49
  use That's what I'm saying, Like we have talked about how on the show,
• 58:52
  essentially politicians have turned women into a voting block by essentially that's why,
• 59:00
  Like when you look at it, and it doesn't matter if they're Republicans,
• 59:04
  Democrats, whatever, even libertarians, they will appeal to women as that they
• 59:08
  make that a priority. Because they don't think that it works if you appeal
• 59:12
  to men, and in fact, if you try to make an appeal to
• 59:15
  men, women will become like resentful of that because they want to be the
• 59:20
  ones par it is it It's really just comes down to this, which is
• 59:24
  that there's one demographic that basically decides the outcome of every single election where it
• 59:30
  is a toss up. Right, So if you're in a purple if you're
• 59:32
  in a purple district, right, that is white suburban women. That's it.
• 59:37
  Yep, suburban women. Why because women that live in the cities and
• 59:43
  in the country are already decided. Men are mostly already decided. The one
• 59:47
  demographic of people that can change from Democrat to Republican Democrat or Republican Democratic Republican
• 59:53
  in any election is going to be suburban women, particularly white women, white
• 59:59
  suburban women. If you can get the middle class women right right, right,
• 1:00:02
  Well, it's well, it's the suburbs as a district where you know,
• 1:00:05
  you're not necessarily right wing or left wing, neither are your friends,
• 1:00:07
  right, and so yeah, if you can, if you can get middle
• 1:00:10
  class white Karens to vote for you, you win the election. And you
• 1:00:15
  see this with let's say Loudon County and Virginia. Where where we where The
• 1:00:20
  Republican won, you know, one over in Virginia, despite Bloomberg spending hundreds
• 1:00:25
  of millions of dollars again to try and swing the state blue. How did
• 1:00:30
  all of that money fail? And the Republican won. Moms for liberty and
• 1:00:34
  pissed off moms about what's going on in schools and critical race theory and queer
• 1:00:38
  theory in schools was enough to activate suburban white women to go, what the
• 1:00:43
  fuck are in these schools? That's crazy? An he won. That's how
• 1:00:45
  you win an election. It's will always be how you win election in America
• 1:00:49
  until there is significant demographic shift where the you know that that block is no
• 1:00:53
  longer as valuable, which probably will happen soon. But nevertheless, I mean,
• 1:00:57
  I mean, now, the way that you win elections might be,
• 1:01:00
  you know, bringing in a bunch of immigrants and then accidentally having them on
• 1:01:02
  voter ID rolls. But you know, well, you know I didn't say
• 1:01:06
  that YouTube. Somebody in your chat. I'm looking at your chat. Somebody
• 1:01:09
  said the name of the pit the baseball player, Trevor Bauer. It's going
• 1:01:13
  to give a shout out to Trevor Bauer hopefully you know like that girl.
• 1:01:21
  Yeah, yeah, for actually like well, shout out for recording everything,
• 1:01:24
  which is, you know, something that I guess most men wouldn't think they
• 1:01:28
  should be doing, but apparently they should be, especially if they're wealthy,
• 1:01:31
  and you know, because they're gonna draw kind of like snakes towards them.
• 1:01:38
  Also, I used to be a teacher. Somebody mentioned that the same thing
• 1:01:42
  about not having authority but expecting to be responsible also applies to children. I'm
• 1:01:49
  not sure about the home. I think that there you could work that out,
• 1:01:52
  you know, individually, But I know that in schools. I have
• 1:01:57
  done some teaching, and male teachers are so unusual these days. It's almost
• 1:02:01
  all it's like eighty five percent women, maybe higher. In the United States.
• 1:02:05
  Work environment for a male it is feminine male again, this is you're
• 1:02:10
  feminine. You know, it's different. But if you're a masculine male,
• 1:02:14
  it's toxic place for you to be. It's probably not You could probably get
• 1:02:15
  it. I could probably get a job. I was a drag queen,
• 1:02:17
  let's be real. So if I decided, you know, setting aside of
• 1:02:22
  your ability to get the job. I just mean, like, it's not
• 1:02:25
  it's not a welcoming place for a man to work. But anybody that's ever
• 1:02:30
  worked in a female dominated profession knows that you're walking on eggshells when you're when
• 1:02:37
  you're in that work environment. And like, they'll tell jokes about their their
• 1:02:39
  boyfriends and their husbands, and they'll tell jokes about penises and about sex and
• 1:02:44
  about all these things. And you know, as a man, don't you
• 1:02:46
  fucking get involved in this conversation whatsoever, Because the moment you say something in
• 1:02:52
  there that offends anyone in that group, your your life's over. You're gonna
• 1:02:55
  your life is gonna be ruined by a sexual harassment charge despite the fact that
• 1:03:00
  they're saying wild shit, because there is a there's a there's a bias there,
• 1:03:04
  And I don't necessarily think that that's a bad bias. Again, I
• 1:03:07
  don't think it's necessarily bad that we let women get away with telling dick jokes.
• 1:03:12
  And we're a little bit more careful about dudes saying sexual things to women
• 1:03:16
  when there are no other dudes around, right, Like, I think that's
• 1:03:20
  probably a good instinct. The problem is when they have power, it's right,
• 1:03:24
  like, you can't have the power and the protection. You can't have
• 1:03:28
  both. It's kind of like Spider Man, right, like with great power
• 1:03:30
  comes great responsibility, Like there is a responsibility if you have that power,
• 1:03:34
  but if you get rid of if you get rid of my power, I
• 1:03:37
  don't fucking keep the responsibility. It's insane. Yeah, I mean I I
• 1:03:42
  personally because I think this is all a problem that comes out of human resources
• 1:03:45
  departments and the over let's say, our tendency to be overly litigious about everything.
• 1:03:54
  I frankly think that women and men should be able to joke about whatever
• 1:03:59
  they want. I think that there is such a thing as, let's say,
• 1:04:01
  courtesy to like you know, know that you don't just say whatever around
• 1:04:05
  whoever. But I don't care if guys want to tell dick jokes. I
• 1:04:10
  really like, you know, like what because but I need to say it's
• 1:04:14
  very quick, like like I don't want. I think it is a good
• 1:04:17
  instinct that we think it's something's wrong with like a Don Draper Madmen work environment
• 1:04:24
  where you walk in to like go tell your boss about something real quick and
• 1:04:28
  he slaps you on the ass and calls you sugar dets right, like you
• 1:04:30
  don't want that environment for women, and so the way that you stop that
• 1:04:34
  environment is that you have to be you have to stop it before it starts,
• 1:04:38
  which means you have to be overly protective of the females in that environment.
• 1:04:42
  The difference is when the females run the HR departments and it's all the
• 1:04:46
  women that are the mediators in judiciaryas part of this process. You can't have
• 1:04:53
  patriarchal protection run by women because what you have now is a pseudo patriarchy that
• 1:05:00
  is actually a matriarchy masquerading as a patriarchy, that gives us all of the
• 1:05:05
  bad shit, all of the responsibility, and none of the ability to actually
• 1:05:10
  discriminate or be honest or engage in reality. There is I think that comes
• 1:05:17
  with other problems. I mean, I don't think men want to work in
• 1:05:21
  an environment like that. So you're because if they have to be on eggshells,
• 1:05:26
  and we just talked about that, it's not worth it, and HR
• 1:05:29
  departments and sexual harassment and stuff like that. That's what I mean. Yeah,
• 1:05:32
  reason WHYLLS is because women run it and there's that protective inside exactly exactly,
• 1:05:39
  so then we are we are essentially getting the results from what you know,
• 1:05:45
  what was perhaps started in earnest. But then that like brings in another
• 1:05:48
  question. Another thing that I advocate a lot for is that what men need.
• 1:05:55
  So we have this problem where a boy comes into this world and he
• 1:06:00
  probably gets circumcised, and then he is probably raised by a single mom,
• 1:06:04
  which means he is probably more likely to be exposed to abuse, which and
• 1:06:09
  then he goes into a school and all of his teachers are women, almost
• 1:06:12
  all of them. There are no men in his vicinity except for maybe the
• 1:06:15
  security guards if it's in a rough area, you know. And he goes
• 1:06:19
  to university and all this time he's getting a feminist education because public not just
• 1:06:24
  public education, all education is feminists, like all of it with charter schools,
• 1:06:29
  Catholic schools, private schools, it's military schools, all of it are
• 1:06:32
  military is feminists. I mean. So he is surrounded by this ideology,
• 1:06:38
  he's bombarded with it everywhere, and then he turns out to be kind of
• 1:06:42
  a mess. I mean, we can't really blame him, so we gotta
• 1:06:45
  what I what I what I say is that something there has to be something
• 1:06:50
  that we can bring to men, young men in particular boys as a kind
• 1:06:57
  of release valve, and that for me, this is what I advocate for,
• 1:07:01
  is that boys have their own spaces, and every time boys make a
• 1:07:04
  space, feminists invade the space because they don't want men coming together. And
• 1:07:10
  I have a I have an idea as to why that is, but I
• 1:07:14
  can get into but I can give you some examples. For example, there
• 1:07:16
  used to be men only clubs. There used to be boys club, the
• 1:07:20
  Boy Scouts. Women can join the Boy Scouts. Now you know all of
• 1:07:26
  these sort of you know male I was. I was part of a boys
• 1:07:29
  club as a kid, and it was good. You go on trips,
• 1:07:30
  you do, you learn skills, you know you you you have Bowling Alone.
• 1:07:36
  No, no, must read book. It's it's little dated. It's
• 1:07:41
  more of a history book now than an accurate book. But there's a lot
• 1:07:44
  of reasons those men's clubs failed, and it's not just feminists invading the spaces.
• 1:07:49
  That definitely did happen. There's there's a bowling. Bowling Alone by Robert
• 1:07:55
  Putnam is a seminal piece of work of sociology and understanding where this really started.
• 1:08:00
  And it's not really it's not feminists that started it. It's the isolation
• 1:08:05
  of men from those communities because of World War two and because of the GI
• 1:08:11
  Bill and the creation of the suburbs, and all of a sudden we started
• 1:08:15
  shopping, working and living in three different areas instead of living together as a
• 1:08:20
  community. And there's a kind of an anomey thing where man is separated from
• 1:08:25
  the community and separated from his labor because he's, you know, part of
• 1:08:29
  a machine, a cog. It's it's it's it's worth reading. You should
• 1:08:33
  absolutely read it. It's it's great. I mean, that's interesting. But
• 1:08:35
  again, men can form, like men are trying to form communities now,
• 1:08:40
  and those still get invaded and broken off, finist whatever, ye can't them
• 1:08:49
  anymore. But that men never said women couldn't join. It wasn't like a
• 1:08:54
  man only thing. It's just they let some women in, and some of
• 1:08:57
  them were enthusiastic, like you know, there are girl gamers and girl nerds
• 1:09:00
  that are legitimate. But then it becomes a bigger space because the men invest
• 1:09:04
  time and energy into it, and then it gets broken up because they're like,
• 1:09:09
  well, we're in here and we don't like any of this stuff.
• 1:09:11
  And I think there's another reason for it though. I think that the one
• 1:09:15
  thing that it seems like because we're not just talking about like activist groups and
• 1:09:20
  like you know meddling women that get involved. We're talking about government organizations.
• 1:09:25
  We're talking about the Department of Homeland Security, We're talking about the FBI.
• 1:09:29
  They go into forums, they go into you know, these male spaces,
• 1:09:32
  and they observe and they and they nudge and they like meddle with that.
• 1:09:36
  And I think the reason ultimately is and I think this should go in line
• 1:09:42
  because I believe this and I and I also have libertarian leanings myself, like
• 1:09:45
  pretty strong ones. The biggest threat to the government are into like independent men
• 1:09:55
  with families, like because those men who think for themselves, they are more
• 1:10:00
  like, they're more likely to want to have their own guns, they're more
• 1:10:02
  likely to be bro I do, I think. And and if they're married
• 1:10:06
  and they have kids, Firstly, they're invested in the future because they have
• 1:10:10
  children. Secondly, their wife is going to be on their side and they're
• 1:10:13
  gonna work together. I think that is like a man who is adamized and
• 1:10:18
  has no prospects right and has no future and is told that he's a piece
• 1:10:23
  of ship is dangerous for himself, but also for the people around him,
• 1:10:28
  because that's where you get like these kind of you know, suicidal, violent,
• 1:10:32
  self destructive, god bigger. I think those would be a bigger threat
• 1:10:36
  to the government than adomized family because I know, no, no, they'd
• 1:10:41
  be a threat to regular people, not the government, like to other families,
• 1:10:45
  they'd be a threat to both. I think I think that the there's
• 1:10:47
  a there's a there's a double side. There's a flip side to that coin.
• 1:10:51
  Right, I do agree with you that adomized conservative men are more likely
• 1:10:58
  to become activists, to engage, you know, in a peaceful resistance kind
• 1:11:02
  of way, and get together a larger mass of people and be able to
• 1:11:06
  change opinions and hearts and minds, et cetera. But there's a there's a
• 1:11:11
  there's a there's a double side. It's a double sided kind of situation.
• 1:11:15
  And the flip side would be that, like they have weaknesses, right,
• 1:11:18
  they have their family, they have their children, the desire for security.
• 1:11:23
  A man that has no family might be nihilistic. He might say, fuck
• 1:11:28
  it, take away my security, take away something put pressure on me,
• 1:11:31
  doesn't fucking matter. But if I've got a wife and kids, all of
• 1:11:34
  a sudden, I might shut my fucking mouth if they're if there's something some
• 1:11:39
  type of threat towards them, you know what I mean, I can,
• 1:11:41
  I can, I can use those things against you. Those are weaknesses against
• 1:11:44
  you. Whereas a lone wolf kind of guy that goes into a group made
• 1:11:49
  up of a bunch of other people is absolutely more dangerous to society than he
• 1:11:53
  is to the government. But I would still say he's probably also far more
• 1:11:57
  dangerous to the government than the than the Ape family. Man. I don't
• 1:12:00
  know, I don't know that. No. I don't mean an adamized family,
• 1:12:03
  man. I mean like a community of families that are intact and they're
• 1:12:09
  all like they're all talking to each other, like men, talking to each
• 1:12:12
  other, sharing ideas, showing each other skills and whatnot. That's that's serious
• 1:12:15
  stuff, man, I mean, I mean, isn't that basically the Founding
• 1:12:19
  Fathers where they just like a such of like chads like hanging out and like
• 1:12:25
  shooting at well, it's actually a bunch of teenage it's a bunch of teenage.
• 1:12:28
  Yeah, they're all like nineteen to like twenty four, but like yeah,
• 1:12:32
  but the thing is is that, like I think sometimes we kind of
• 1:12:38
  like anthropomorphize the state, we humanize the state. We give this state like
• 1:12:43
  this like Machiavellian kind of tendencies, that there's like the deep state, that
• 1:12:48
  there's this plan, right, and I think, I think more often than
• 1:12:53
  not, what it really is is it's a monopoly on power and violence.
• 1:12:58
  And it is kind of just how it's it's it's it's it's disassociated ideology that
• 1:13:04
  when put together becomes has a life of its own. I don't think the
• 1:13:09
  state. I don't know that the state is like I don't know that the
• 1:13:12
  FBI, for example, is like the biggest threat to the you know,
• 1:13:15
  to the corporate interests. Is like men discord service talking to each other.
• 1:13:19
  Right, But there's like this incentive structure where it's like the FBI is too,
• 1:13:25
  you know, validate their job, and so because they have to validate
• 1:13:28
  my job, I have to catch terrorists. Right, Well, how do
• 1:13:30
  I catch terrorists? Well, the way that I touch catch terrasts is I
• 1:13:32
  go andbed myself in communities and then I push and nudge them almost to the
• 1:13:38
  brink of action so that then I can stop that action. So I can
• 1:13:41
  go, look, I stop the terrorist because it's way way, way harder
• 1:13:44
  to track down the real terrorists that's already planning secretly. It's way easier to
• 1:13:48
  push groups and mentally ill people and things like that towards you know what I
• 1:13:54
  mean, Like it's it's a bunch of shit like that. So I think
• 1:13:56
  it's less about what is a threat to the state and more about understanding the
• 1:14:01
  incentive structures that that the cathedral as a whole, the media, academic institutions,
• 1:14:08
  you know, the the kind of like global organizations like the World Economic
• 1:14:12
  Forum, and our government institutions and the bureaucracy, what incentive structures kind of
• 1:14:17
  push them in certain directions. And then understanding that we have this blob with
• 1:14:23
  an insane amount of power and unlimited funds because they have the capacity and the
• 1:14:29
  means to tax, and then I think we get a better understanding of how
• 1:14:32
  the state operates. I think we too often try and humanize it because we
• 1:14:35
  need an evil thing and are visually we need an evil the idea of like
• 1:14:41
  an evil person with motives. The state doesn't have motives. The state has
• 1:14:45
  incentives. Yeah, well yeah, sure, it's got incentives to essentially make
• 1:14:53
  itself relevant, deep relevant, right, but this works on women? How
• 1:14:57
  does the state do that for women? Essentially, especially women on welfare.
• 1:15:01
  That's basically why there are women on welfare. This was all like I mean
• 1:15:05
  the plan of the great society right Lyndon Johnson and and but then like what
• 1:15:13
  is security too? Is? Is? Yeah, social security too and and
• 1:15:16
  all and like social securitymacare whatever it is? Well, yeah, with social
• 1:15:20
  security for example, people don't think of social security as a means of splitting
• 1:15:25
  up our families, but it absolutely is. Because if social security exists,
• 1:15:29
  then then there's no excuse for you not to be able to pay child support.
• 1:15:32
  If social security exists, then there's no excuse to you know, not
• 1:15:39
  be able to kick your grandparents and other people out of your community, out
• 1:15:42
  of your home, out of the grand out of the mother's suite in your
• 1:15:45
  backyard, and having a separate house for your mother. Social security is this
• 1:15:48
  is the very beginning of the social safety net that begins to destroy families because
• 1:15:53
  it gets rid of the grandparents, and then it gets it gets rid of
• 1:15:58
  the concept that you and I have to put our money together, save it
• 1:16:02
  together, invest in it together, so that we can retire together. And
• 1:16:08
  and and so social security really is the beginning of the destruction of the family.
• 1:16:11
  It's it's not even welfare and it's not even child sport. It really
• 1:16:15
  all starts with social security. Yeah yeah, well yeah, so then you
• 1:16:18
  know, I think, but yeah, I know, mean that's okay,
• 1:16:21
  I gotta go so soon too. I know you got another debate coming up.
• 1:16:24
  But that they that basically is in line with what I'm saying. I
• 1:16:28
  think that you know, you're right, if it breaks up the family,
• 1:16:31
  then it benefits the state, not because they're going after it, but they're
• 1:16:34
  just trying to get whatever. You know, essentially say, you need us
• 1:16:38
  because we give you social Security. You need us because we give you welfare,
• 1:16:41
  we give you food stamps, we give you housing, we give you
• 1:16:44
  a cell phone, you know, your Obama phone. Whatever. But then
• 1:16:47
  what that says is if there is a family that is intact and it's in
• 1:16:50
  a community, and there are you know, look at the Amish for example,
• 1:16:54
  right, like there's like massive extended families and they're very anti government.
• 1:17:00
  They're not necessarily the model that I would go, you know, but like
• 1:17:02
  they're they're a good example of how it can be done. And I don't
• 1:17:05
  think yeah, there is a Viewtube video called I think it's called like Dinner
• 1:17:12
  with the Amish or something like something close to that. She'd be able to
• 1:17:15
  find it. There is a misnomer and it is a lie that has been
• 1:17:18
  spread by the left. It is a It is a sneaky little fucking thing
• 1:17:24
  where people think of the Amish as Pennsylvania Dutch horse and buggy carriage. The
• 1:17:28
  overwhelming majority of Amish, Beechy, Amish and Mennonites are people that use cell
• 1:17:32
  phones, that have houses that have electricity for some reason, some of them
• 1:17:36
  don't have porches, like there are some weird shit there, but they are.
• 1:17:40
  They are the most libertarian, most conservative, haitless, most successful communities.
• 1:17:45
  And people go, well, you don't want to live like the Amish
• 1:17:46
  because you don't want to have like no electricity or right, It's actually no,
• 1:17:49
  you do want to live like the Amish. The beachy Amish is some
• 1:17:53
  of the greatest way that you could live in a community. You actually engage.
• 1:17:57
  Yeah, and they and they again right, and they don't like they're
• 1:18:00
  not affected by the incentive structure because they don't need it and they have it
• 1:18:04
  all figured out. And I agree with you. I mean, I shop
• 1:18:06
  in an Amish grocery store and I think it's in Blacksburg or Christiansburg, which
• 1:18:12
  is like nearby town. Yeah, and uh yeah, they use cell phones
• 1:18:15
  and cash registers and the Internet and all that. So but okay, anyway,
• 1:18:19
  Fabian, thank you so much. I don't know if there's anything that
• 1:18:21
  you wanted to say before, you know, we take off any like final
• 1:18:25
  words end the show. There, No, no, it's it's fine.
• 1:18:29
  Like I said, I have you know, I'm gonna go on here and
• 1:18:30
  you know, take a take a take a pe break and go debate against
• 1:18:35
  you know, lefties about whether or not Nazism is socialism idiot is spoiler alert,
• 1:18:41
  Yeah, we know, and right I got. I got, like
• 1:18:44
  I said, I got permanently banned from Twitter my account. I never got
• 1:18:46
  it back. It was when Jack Dorsey was still running it, and I
• 1:18:49
  said, I've never I've been yeah, something to the effect of Nazis and
• 1:19:00
  communism are all leftism, and people like they live like flipped out at me
• 1:19:05
  and I was like, dude, just just do the research, like just
• 1:19:09
  trust me. But yeah, if you ever want to talk in you know,
• 1:19:11
  hit me up or whatever, I'd love to talk about these issues or
• 1:19:13
  libertarianism or if you really want to get into like a you know, we
• 1:19:15
  can go into my sphere and really go into deep libertarian philosophy and stuff too.
• 1:19:19
  I'd love to talk with you about it too, you know. Sounds
• 1:19:21
  good. Thanks, yeah, thanks so much, appreciate it. And again
• 1:19:26
  I just want to say this, you know, for the record, this
• 1:19:28
  this is the level of discourse that we try to stay at when we talk
• 1:19:31
  about men's issues because we look at we're looking at a big picture here.
• 1:19:35
  This isn't just about like a guy trying to get a date. This is
• 1:19:39
  like way more than that. But unfortunately the stuff that you know, well,
• 1:19:46
  yeah, we with not a lot of women, but we do have
• 1:19:48
  some women over here. So anyway, thanks some boy, I don't care.
• 1:19:54
  Thanks, thanks so much guys for hanging out on the show. I'm
• 1:19:57
  gonna ask that you like, share, subscribe, and comment and we'll talk
• 1:20:00
  to you all in the next one. Thank you so much. Talk to
• 1:20:03
  you later.