Latest / Hell and Gone: Murder Line / Burns Park

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Burns Park · Hell and Gone: Murder Line

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: School of Humans. She was talking to somebody on Saturday
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: and had plans to meet with this person on Sunday
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: in the park. She was supposed to meet with someone
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Sunday in the park, So we still haven't figured out
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: who that was. Because I was kind of thinking. I
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: knew she had Instagram messages exchange with Eric Perry, so
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I thought, maybe's Eric Perry. But now we know obviously
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: that wasn't him. So was there a guy who she
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: was planning on meeting Sunday in the park. Could it
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: have been someone else? We're trying to figure that out.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Each person who we've talked to about Ebbie revealed some
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: new information about who she was and what she was
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: doing before she disappeared. We've found out that she hung
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: out with a lot of different people in groups, and
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: some of these people didn't even necessarily know each other.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: There was Danielle, her old friend from school who she
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: sometimes stayed with during the week. Then there was Eric,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: who Ebbie hung out with in a group with some
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: other friends and eventually dated. Then there were C and L.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Ebbie seemed to know C pretty well, while L was
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: more of a friend of a friend. But as we
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: dig in with each person, we keep finding more and
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: more circles of people, and we're realizing that there may
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: be people out there who we haven't found yet. It
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: seems like Ebby was going to meet someone at the park,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: and if we can figure out who it is, everything
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: might fall into place. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is hell
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: and gone. When I talked to Eric, he had a
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: theory about what could have happened to Ebby. When he
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: talked to Ebbie that last time on Sunday, Remember, he
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: said she sounded exhausted. She sounded impaired in some way,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: out of it and incoherent. I think you were saying
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: she seemed like she was out of it or she'd
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: been roofeed or something. Right, Yes, Like, that's why I
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: think she might have passed out at work up too,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: because of the sound. We know that Ebbie had smoked
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: pot in the past, and that at some point she
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: was on a couple of different types of prescription drugs.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: But could Ebbie have taken something else, even accidentally, that
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: contributed to her death. Yes, Ebbie could have very well
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: overdose phone drugs. She took drugs. That's the road thing
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: like and now was like around the time where Fedanar
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: was like, people didn't even know what fed was. You know,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: so is that's the very you got to understand why
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the police felate she could you know, this could have
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: happened to her. Like the rest of the nation at
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: the time, Little Rock was experiencing an increase of death
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: due to overdose. Fentnyl was making the news, especially after
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Prince's death, but back in twenty fifteen it was not
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: as well known as it is now in the region.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Fentnyl is a synthetic opioid, and it was developed as
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: a painkiller and anesthetic. Because it's so strong, up to
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: one hundred times stronger than morphine, the potential for accidental
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: overdose can be huge. Sometimes fentnyl is added to other drugs,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: so people can overdose on fentnyl and have no idea
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: that they overtook it. Based on how Ebby sounded to
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Eric and also what Trevor said about his call with her,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: it does seem like Ebby was in some sort of
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: very altered state. We talked to toxicology expert doctor Barry
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Guston about the signs of fentnyl overdose. Well, the first
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: thing you have to understand what the effects are on
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: the body when it's taken in a normal doses. The
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: normal doses between twenty five and fifty micrograms per dose.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: We're talking micrograms rather than milligrams. It's one thousand of
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: a milligram a microgram, so it's very small. So it's
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: effect on the body is the same effect as any opioid.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: You get pain relief, you relaxed, and it get s dated.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Some people might get a little nauseous from it. But
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: when you take an excess amount of it, the amount
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: it's an access will produce stupor cause the skin to
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: be called and clammy. The person might go into a coma.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: It causes respiratory failure, leading usually leading to death. And
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: in the fenel does something else that's interesting that no
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: other opioid does. It causes an abnormality in the chest
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: wall and the diaphragm. It causes what we call chest
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: wall rigidity. And what that does is it makes the
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: breathing very very difficult, because if you can't expand your
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: chest wall or your diaphragm, you're not going to be
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: able to breathe. So not only does it depress respirations
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: that you can have a respiratory arrest. It also makes
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: it very difficult to breathe because you can't have normal
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: excursion of your chest wall and your diaphragm. And is
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: it possible for someone who might be overdosing to pass
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: out and then wake up and then pass out again? Now, okay,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: so once they're out there out Basically, once they're out,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: they're out. Our case was back in twenty fifteen. Can
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: you just talk a little bit about was fitine present
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen? Oh? Yeah, Fentinel's been around along a
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: long time. And you have to think of it this way.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Opioid overdose deaths I've really become an epidemic in the
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: United States. It's a terrible, terrible scourge. And what you
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: have to think about is the opioid overdose death can't
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: come really three waves. The third wave began in around
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: twenty thirteen and we started seeing a ute spink up
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: and overdose deaths from these synthetic opioids and have been
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: number one culprit. There is fentyl. There's been counterfeit pills.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Heroin is laced with fentyl, Cocaine is laced with fentyl,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: And the problem is that these deaths that are occurring
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: are deaths when the individual doesn't know that they've been
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: ingesting fentyl. So the overdose victims are dying after unknowingly
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: ingesting the ventyl. That's the problem, right. They're more fentyl
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: related deaths now per period of time than cun and
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: automobile related deaths combined. So these deaths are no longer
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: being treated by the government as accidental death. They're being
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: treated as homicides. Well, my last question, and which you
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: partially already answered, really is what drugs do spentil appear in.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: I know you mentioned heroin, cocaine pills, what about marijuana?
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: About hot Yes, mentioned marijuana too, And I guess there's
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: no real way to know what you're buying. There isn't.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Even if an accidental overdose contributed to Ebbie's death, it
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't explain everything. Why was she in that pipe? We'll
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: be right back. An overdose does not explain everything. I
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: understand why the police feel like she could have you know,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: this could have happened to her off ofs. But basically
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say, I see why they can say, oh, yes,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: she overdose, But how can you say somebody put theirselfs
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: in the pipe. We've also been getting more details about
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: the towel that was found near Ebbie's car. Lee, the
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: neighbor who called in the end in car, let Laurie
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: know that from the beginning she believed that the way
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: the towel was positioned was suspicious. In a text to Laurie,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Lee wrote that she saw a red towel laying flat
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: out beside the back passenger tire, and she wondered if
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: someone could have used it to slide themselves down into
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: the drain. Now, there are two ways to access the
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: storm drain that leads down to the thirteen inch wide
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: pipe where Ebby's body was found. Whoever put her down
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: there could have lifted the manhole cover, then put her
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: there and closed the cover afterwards. But there's also another possibility.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: The gutter that leads down to that drain is wide
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: and angles pretty sharply downward, so Ebbie could have slid
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: down that way, or someone could have pushed her down
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: that way. Lee said that she told the original detective
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: on the case, Roy Williams, that she believed the towel
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: could be a significant clue from day one, I said
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: the towel was used for something she wrote. Lee says
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: that after she talked to the police, they basically dismissed
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: the towel. They seemed to think that Ebby could have
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: been hanging out outside her car or sitting on it.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: But on October twenty fifth, twenty fifteen, according to a
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: historical weather day to website, the temperature and Little Rock
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: would have been in the fifties. That seems very cold
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: for a teenager to get out of the car and
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: hang out. Why wouldn't she have stayed inside her car?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Did something scare her or did something happen there that
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: caused her to get out, something unexpected that would have
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: caused someone else to slide her into that manhole using
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: that towel. Eric's theory was that Ebby could have overdosed
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: and then it could have been an accident, and then
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: the person or people she was with just panicked. If
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: they did, could they have made a split second decision
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: to get rid of her body and then put her
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: on too that towel? But who was even with Ebby
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: that day? There's a photo when Ebby Instagram that she
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: posted about a week before she went missing. She's in
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: her car in a park. It's Burns Park in North
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Little Rock. Compared to Chalmant, Burns Park is huge and
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: it's one of the many parks that Ebbie liked to
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: hang out in. And in that photo she's not alone,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: she's with a guy and the caption reads made a
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: new friend. When Laurie saw this photo for the first time,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: she immediately knew who this guy was. His name is Leo.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: We've confirmed with multiple sources that Leo and Ebbie used
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: to hang out, but according to Laurie, when Leo was
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: questioned by the police in twenty fifteen after Ebbie disappeared,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: he told them he didn't know Ebby. So we're trying
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: to find out more about him where he is now
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: if he'll talk. Leo is also showed up in Ebbie's
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: phone records after she went missing. He called a couple
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: of times. And Leo is also someone who Eric mentioned
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: as being potentially a guy who Ebby might hang around
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: within that park. So for all those reasons, we're trying
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: to find Leo. But Leo is turning out to be
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: hard to find. Mike can't find him on his PI
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: database and even though we have a last name, we
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: can't find anyone with that exact name who would be
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: the correct age. But finally, after making some calls, I
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: get a message on Instagram from someone who says they
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: know Leo. Well, are you guys okay? If I record this,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: By the way, I don't have to use it. I
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: don't have to use it. We're not using this source's
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: name because they're scared. They said that Leo moved to
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: the Little Rock area from Hot Springs when he was seventeen,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: and that for a period of time he attended Central
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: High School. The source says that Leo did hang around
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: in a group that included Ebby and some guys. The
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: source did not know the guys, but describe them as
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: African American. The source said that Ebby, these guys, and
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Leo would all go to parks together. One of the
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: things we've been trying to figure out too, is like
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: there's a friend group who were kind of around on
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Friday night, and it seems like Leo. I'm just trying
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: to figure out where he fits into it, because definitely
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I think that he was going to the park with her,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: either that park or another part maybe Burns Park. But
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: he was going to the park with her. I just
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: can't figure out how he's connected to the guys on
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Friday night, like if he knew them. Was Leo part
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: of the group that Ebbie was with on Friday night
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: or could he have been around on Saturday or Sunday.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: According to the source, Leo was hanging out with Ebbie
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: in the days before she went missing, and at some
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: point he got a call from her where she seemed
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: to be very distraught. Well, if he got when he
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: got the call where he was really distraught, did he
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: ever say anything about what the call was about what
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: happened during that call? Did Ebbie call him to tell
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: him about the sexual assault or could it have been
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: something else. We'll be right back. I know there's a
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: little off the subject, but apparently there was a big
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Like Laurie. Tommy Hudson called Laurie yesterday and said, was
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Katherine trying to say that the security guard did something
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: to Ebby? And Laurie's like, no, She was asking why
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: the story didn't match, and He's like, well, nothing could
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: be further from the truth. Like he's been lie detected.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Someone gave him a lie detector test, and I just
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: was kind of like, you know, okay, but how do
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: we know that? Did he say he gave him a
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: lie detector tests? No, we don't know who did or
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: if anyone did. And I'm just not believing what the
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: police are saying because we know they've gotten so much
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: wrong that I really don't I mean, these are logical
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: questions you'd be asking anyone at this point. So anyway,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: just letting you know that's going on. Even with our
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: questions about the security guard and about several other people,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: it still looks like the LRPD or no longer going
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: to work on the case. In Detective Bruce Maxwell's words
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: and an email to Laurie, quote there is no more
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: work to be done on the case end quote. But
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: it's strange because Bruce is also confirmed that he has
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: no idea where Ebbie was on Saturday night. And another
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: question that hasn't been answered is what about Ebbie's phones.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: So this whole time, there's been a question about whether
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Ebbie could have had a second phone, and now it
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: looks like she definitely did have a second phone. Laurie
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: told us that shortly before Ebbie went missing, Ebbie switched
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: her phone with another friend, of hers. The friend who
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Laurie believes that Ebbie switched phones with is Kaylee, the
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: same friend who searched Chamant Park with her mom right
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: after Ebbie disappeared. They're the ones who smelled decomposition. They
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: call the police and according to Kayley and her mom,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: law enforcement kind of blew them off and said it
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: must have been an animal or something else. But it
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: seems now that that could have been a hugely important tip.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: The fact that Ebbie could have switched phones with a
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: friend of hers has never been brought up in our
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: conversations with police, and if Ebbie did switch phones with
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: a friend, then that friend could have access to some
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: information that has never been seen. So that could be
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: very significant because apparently some of the messages in the cloud,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: like Kaylee was still getting Ebbie's messages in the cloud
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: and some of her data and pictures, which could be
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: very significant because if that was going on, then Ebbie's
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: phone could have had some of Kayley's data and the
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: police have been saying that they had, like Bruce Maxwell
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: recently said he went through six thousand photos on Ebbie's
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: phone that apparently no one had looked through, and he's
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: basing his timeline on those photos. So my question would be,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: can we be absolutely sure that those were Ebbie's photos
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: and weren't corrupted with some of the other data from
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: you know, Kayley's phone. I don't even know if he's
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: aware of that. I don't think Bruce has spoken to her,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: And I'm also wondering why doesn't he just, you know,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: call Kayley and say, hey, can you look through these
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: photos and tell me if any of them are you
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: or yours. The only thing I would ask is if
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: she does allow us to look at the phone, we
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: need to ask her if she factory reset that phone
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: anytime between now and then. Did you just get a
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: new phone and just kept that phone and it's been
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: off or have you? Like we need to know some
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: things about the phone. If it's an older iPhone, you
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: may still able to pull data off of it. Some
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: of the newer iPhones when you factory reset it may
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: it renders the data cryptographically inaccessible, which means you need
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: to go to a lab in order for them to
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: pull all the old data off of it. But if
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: like it's still there and some of that stuff is there,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: we can rip the handset. If Kayley will allow us
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: to do it. I mean, we can turn that over
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: to law enforcement if if we so desire. After we
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: look through the data, I put out a call to
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Kayley and we made a plan to talk sometime in
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: the next few days. Though we have not yet been
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: able to identify the two men who were patrolling with
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: a security guard, we do have some more information. People
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: have been texting and calling our tipline now that the
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: podcast is coming out, and Laurie has also been getting calls.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Some of them say they have information about the case.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: I know from Laurie. I just I've seen the message
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: you sent her and I guess, just tell me what
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: you what you know? Well, a few years ago, this
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: is Leslie. She met Laurie through her hairdresser because she
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: went to the same salon where Laurie worked. So I've
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: sat next door while she's getting my hair done for
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: years and talking to her name and would run in
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: and out when she was yumping heavy within my son's
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: graduating class at Central High School and so she would
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: have graduated with him. So it was very personal to
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: all of us, especially since she went missing from a
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: par park our pool and that was where her car
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: was found. After Ebbie went missing, Leslie did whatever she
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: could to help Laurie. I put up posters, you know,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: everywhere I went, thinking that perhaps she was being trafficked.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: We were just very, very very upset about it. And
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: I kept saying, I I just can't believe the story
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: of being trafficked. Did search for her? My husband and
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I and my friend and I would go up there
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: and walk around, and I would just get the hairs
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: in the back of my neck would stand up. And
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: when I went over there, and I just said, something
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: bad happened here, and they need to figure this out,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: and why are they not looking for her more diligently.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Leslie lives in Shannall Valley, in a neighborhood very close
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: to Schalmont Park, So she was part of the neighborhood
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: that Guy Hooper regularly patrol. And this is why she
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: called me. She tells me she's not seen anyone matching
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the description of the young black men who Michael mentioned
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: seeing that day when he went to look for Ebbie
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: shortly after she went missing. But Leslie said she does
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: know for a fact that there was someone else who
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: patrolled the area regularly with Guy Hooper. This is extremely
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: surprising to me because during this entire investigation, no one
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: has ever mentioned this other person even mentioned which is
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: why see the thing for me, And I'm sorry, that's
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: why I said look that up. The person who patrolled
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: regularly with Guy Hooper was his son, Josh. Leslie said
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: she never had a good feeling about them. She says
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: they'd drive around and beat up cars and often patrol
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: around dusk. Then there was another unsettling incident she remembered
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: about them. I do believe it was before twenty eleven.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: He was involved, and I believe his son was for
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: him at the time. This was on the news. But anyway,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: there was a robbery outside of Chanal, not really in
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Chenal proper. He and his company they saw somehow a
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: robbery and progress at a pharmacy and chased the people
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: and they chased him into one of the Chanal neighborhoods
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: and in the process of this, somehow someone ended up
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: getting shot and killed. Of the robbers, there's two or
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: three of them by one of the Hoopers. Leslie can't
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: find the newspaper articles about this now, but she and
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: her family also had another unfortunate encounter with the hoopers.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: We had a personal experience with him that was bad
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: and where my son was involved. He was a last
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: guard at one of the fools here and when he
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: was a senior, I mean between senior and college summer,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: you're very young. And he and his friends were out
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: running around and he said, Hey, I've got to the pool.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Do you want to go to the pool? And they're
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: all like, go, oh, yeah, of course, you know there
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: should be doing that. He was an employee, but he
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: did go there after hours and let him in. Leslie's
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: son and his friends went into the pool without permission
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: after hours, not the pool at Shawmont Park, but a
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: pool in a neighborhood nearby. But apparently after they went
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: in there, the hooper spotted them. And what happened next
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: was extremely disturbing. They came in there and they basically,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: you know, made him get on their their knees and said,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: you know, y'all are in really big trouble and I
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: could have blown your head off and said this multiple times,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: and the police came. And I don't know who calls
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: the police. I don't know if David, I don't know
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: who did. But the police came and said you know,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: you need to calm down. Security guards are supposed to
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: de escalate situations, and according to the source we spoke
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: to from the homeowners association, the reason they had a
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: security guard around there in the first place was mainly
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: to deter crime, not to detain people. And when the
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: police came, Leslie says that even they were telling the
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Hoopers they needed to calm down, and he was like
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: insistent that they give them all tickets. We had to
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: go to court over it, and here fine, which is
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: mean he lost his job, and that's fine because he
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: did break the rules and he shouldn't have been there
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: after hours. But I mean, the people of the court
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: couldn't believe it that this had made such a big
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: deal about this. Then the police even said, you know,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: this is your overboard on this. This is crazy. These
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: kids have done. All they're doing is sitting there talking
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: around the pool. They really weren't doing anything. Leslie said
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: that most of the people in the neighborhood, especially after
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: incidents like these, didn't like the Hooper's patrolling. She said
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: she didn't really even understand why they needed to be
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: there in the first place, but she admitted people were
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: reluctant to complain about them because of what she described
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: as a fear of retaliation. Leslie remembers the day when
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Ebbie's body was found, and then when they found her,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I was like, I drove past and I saw it.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, They've found her finally,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: and she's right there right what we all said. She
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: probably was the entire time. And it's just so so
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: awful for Laurie and Michael and everybody in Trevor and
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: everybody hear us that have suffered so long. After Ebby's
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: body was found and with the information and her general
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: feeling about the Hoopers, Leslie called Tommy Hudson. Anyway, I
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: called Tommy Hudson. Oh no, when maybe three years ago,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: after they discovered Every's body and all this came out
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: about him seeing her at the you know, there was
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: a couple of conflicting stories from him. Leslie told Tommy
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: about the story with the Hoopers and her son and
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: the robbery case from twenty eleven. When I did tell
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Tommy Hudson, he said, well, I'll check into that, but
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: you know, he kind of shouted off to his other officers.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Says that na I heard about this where the Hoopers
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: shot someone and they said, no, no, we don't have
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: any record. We don't know. I said, well, you need
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: to look into that because it was on the news.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know how it could not be there. How
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: in a world did that story get lost? And I've
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: said the Tommy when he was on the case and
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: said you have to look at him. But oh, he
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: has been cleared, that's what he said. And I said, well,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know how. I told him my stories and
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: he was like, well, I'll look into that, and then
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: nothing ever came about. I never I said, well, here's
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: my number, and he never called me back. So who
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: is Josh Hooper? Unlike his dad, he's fairly easy to
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: find on social media. He apparently lives in Sherwood, Arkansas
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: and runs a foreign company. We find his address and
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: we also found a phone number for Leo. It's time
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: to make some calls. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Hell
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: and Gone. Helen Gone is a production of School of
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Humans and iHeartRadio. It's written and hosted by me Katherine
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Townsend and produced by Gabby and Mike Doubt. Our executive
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: producers are Brandon Barr Else Crowley and Virginia Prescott. Mix
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: and Master is by Ryan Peoples and our music is
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: by Ben Sale. If you have any information regarding Ebbie's case,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: please call our tipline at six seven eight six three
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: two six one five nine. School of Humans, School of
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Humans