Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP18 - Introducing The American Futharch Runes (feat. Eirik Westcoat & Scott Shell)

Transcript

Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP18 - Introducing The American Futharch Runes (feat. Eirik Westcoat & Scott Shell) · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:01
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:04
  podcast, where we discuss all sorts of things Germanic
• 0:07
  Heathenry related. My name is Jesse.
• 0:09
  I'm your host. Let's get into it.
• 0:32
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  Visit our online store at the Old eightyear.com and discover
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  the beauty of mountain spirit. Welcome back everybody.
• 1:07
  Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of the podcast.
• 1:09
  Hope you are all doing well, amazing, healthy and happy in
• 1:13
  your respective hearths and homes in the beginning of May.
• 1:17
  Now just rolling right along with some really fun content
• 1:20
  here in season 5. The last episode before this was
• 1:25
  a real fun one for me. Getting to talk to a guest on
• 1:28
  here last week about the Call of the Runes.
• 1:31
  But Call of the Runes Walter Mcgrory was my guest.
• 1:33
  And this is So. This is now a great segue into
• 1:36
  today's guest, who I think you guys and gals out here are going
• 1:39
  to really find an interesting person to talk to and learn
• 1:43
  about today. I know I am.
• 1:44
  I've just recently learned about him and what he does.
• 1:50
  Funny enough, I've known of him for some time.
• 1:52
  I just haven't realized the depths of his, his study, his
• 1:58
  work when it comes to rooms. So I I've, I've shared stuff
• 2:03
  about him on some of my social medias in the last week or so.
• 2:08
  So if you guys are catching this on the day that it airs, then
• 2:13
  you know, you might have seen a post or two about this already,
• 2:17
  along with some other clips and reels and things that get shared
• 2:21
  along the way for you to sort of whet your appetite.
• 2:24
  But I, Rick Westcote is going to be my guest today.
• 2:29
  And I Rick is an accomplished author.
• 2:31
  He's also got a long list of credentials that he will be
• 2:36
  talking about today that kind of put him in a position of knowing
• 2:41
  what he's talking about. When it comes to runes and
• 2:44
  specifically his new American Futhark system, American Futhark
• 2:52
  runes, I believe there are a total of, I'm not mistaken, 33
• 2:57
  runes that speak as he says that speak your language and and
• 3:03
  there's like there's there's there's a rune poem for these
• 3:06
  American food art runes and all that sort of thing.
• 3:09
  So you know, if you guys want to just jump ahead and kind of get
• 3:13
  yourself up to speed on Irec's information and his work, you
• 3:17
  can go to his website americanfoodarc.com link for
• 3:23
  that's going to be annotated in the show notes or down in the
• 3:26
  description of this video. If you're watching this on
• 3:28
  Patreon, it's also showing up here on your screen.
• 3:31
  But you can find out more about Eric and his, like I said, his
• 3:35
  work, his credentials and everything.
• 3:37
  But I do look forward to speaking with him about this
• 3:40
  because as I have shared information about what Eric has
• 3:44
  done and the American food art as a whole, it's been met with
• 3:48
  some skepticism, some downright disdain.
• 3:51
  I believe there is a is a fair word to put to it.
• 3:53
  There's been a lot of folks out here specifically who are of
• 3:57
  Scandinavian descent who feel that this is this is wrong, that
• 4:02
  there are, you know, that there's that there's no place
• 4:04
  for this or or they maybe don't understand.
• 4:06
  So I'm excited to hear more about this coming from I Rick's
• 4:10
  perspective as being the person who you know has has created
• 4:15
  this system and hopefully joining us today.
• 4:18
  I I won't say his name right off of the rip.
• 4:20
  I'm just going to kind of leave this open-ended because I'm not
• 4:22
  sure when or if he will be joining us.
• 4:24
  But I do believe there will be another gentleman joining us on
• 4:29
  this podcast at least at some point in time, if not from the
• 4:32
  very beginning when I welcome Ira here who is also a linguist
• 4:37
  and and and has multiple degrees in linguistics or I believe, I
• 4:43
  believe, I believe at least a doctorate in Germanic
• 4:47
  linguistics. So if you guys have watched my
• 4:49
  content and you know by just that hint who I am talking
• 4:54
  about, hopefully he will be on here as well to kind of help
• 4:58
  expand the dialogue and create more of information for us to
• 5:02
  learn from. So before we get started, do be
• 5:05
  sure to check out everything about this podcast that's linked
• 5:09
  down in the show notes or in the description video description.
• 5:13
  Speaking of video descriptions, for those of you just listening
• 5:16
  to this show on the audio platforms, don't forget you can
• 5:20
  support this podcast monetarily by becoming a patron on Patreon,
• 5:23
  and you can watch the video versions.
• 5:26
  I do share clips and reels and short segments of the show
• 5:29
  throughout the week leading up to each episode's release.
• 5:32
  But if you want to watch the whole thing in its entirety, all
• 5:35
  you need to do is just become a patron.
• 5:37
  On My Patreon for $1.00. The $1.00 pledge gives you
• 5:41
  access to all of my content that is, you know, locked behind the
• 5:44
  pay wall. If you decide you want to become
• 5:47
  a higher tier patron, there are additional perks along there.
• 5:50
  So my Patreon information is in the link tree link that's always
• 5:54
  in the show notes or down in the description you.
• 5:56
  Like I said, you guys are watching this, you already know
• 5:57
  the deal. But for those listening, just go
• 6:00
  to the show notes, click on that link tree link.
• 6:02
  Or you can just go to patreon.com/medgard Musings and
• 6:06
  sign up. Become a patron there and you
• 6:08
  can, you know, return your pledge as often or as or as
• 6:12
  infrequent as you'd like. You know, you're under no
• 6:14
  obligation to return. Just as long as you keep that
• 6:17
  dollar pledge, you will have access to those video podcasts.
• 6:22
  So that's pretty much it. That's all I wanted to lead up
• 6:26
  to before we welcome I Rick in here and hopefully another guest
• 6:29
  as well. So any information about the
• 6:33
  American food arc again is probably just going to be that
• 6:35
  one stop there on the website. But there are other social links
• 6:40
  and things. I know Eric has some presence on
• 6:43
  social media. He is online, Handle is at least
• 6:47
  on Instagram and maybe TikTok and elsewhere.
• 6:49
  I believe Facebook as well is the Skaldic Eagle.
• 6:54
  He does have books out there. So everything about him is on
• 6:56
  his website. You know, check it out peruse.
• 6:58
  But you can find him on his social medias at the Skaldic
• 7:02
  Eagle. So without further ado, let's
• 7:05
  get into learning more about what this American Futhark
• 7:09
  system is of runes. The runes that allegedly speak.
• 7:13
  Our language as American English speakers.
• 7:16
  See what we can get into. All right folks.
• 7:21
  The long-awaited Well maybe not too long-awaited, but the
• 7:24
  awaited podcast with my featured guest who is Iric Westcoat down
• 7:30
  here at the bottom of my screen. The founder of the new American
• 7:35
  food Ark system Welcome to the show here Iric for the first
• 7:38
  time and we also have Scott Shell return guest but also just
• 7:42
  kind of sitting here and going to help with the some moderating
• 7:46
  of the conversation and see what we have to to get into with with
• 7:50
  iric system so. First of all.
• 7:52
  Iric, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.
• 7:54
  Thank you, Jesse. It's great to have you here.
• 7:57
  Yeah. And thank you Scott as well for
• 8:00
  for wanting to to come on here and and be a presence as well.
• 8:02
  It's always appreciated. Yeah, I know.
• 8:04
  It's wonderful. Thanks.
• 8:06
  Thanks for having me on again. I will just mention real quick
• 8:10
  for you folks that are listening and watching.
• 8:12
  If you're not familiar with Scott Shell, I will be leaving
• 8:15
  some of his information in the description and show notes
• 8:18
  rather of the podcast video description.
• 8:20
  For those of you on Patreon watching, he does have a YouTube
• 8:22
  channel, although it's been a little quiet here lately due to
• 8:25
  some other more important things that he's got going on in his
• 8:27
  life. But he does have a some really
• 8:29
  great content up on his YouTube channel.
• 8:33
  I always get the name mixed up. It's what's it?
• 8:35
  What's it called again, Scott? It's just Continental Germanic
• 8:39
  Heathenry. It might just be called Germanic
• 8:41
  Heathenry now I've gone through a couple.
• 8:43
  It's, yeah, it's. It's linked down below guys, so
• 8:45
  if you want to know more about what Scott does, I'm definitely
• 8:48
  check him out as well, but the man of the here.
• 8:51
  We go, I'm sorry, Germanic beliefs in religion.
• 8:54
  See, I I don't even remember the name.
• 8:57
  Don't even know your own channel's name, but it is down
• 9:01
  there guys. Check it out.
• 9:03
  But the man of the hour, as it were, the man of today's episode
• 9:06
  here is, is Irick Westcote. So irick you have a website up
• 9:12
  and you've been working. Now I'm not sure for how long on
• 9:14
  this, this, this new Futhark called the American Futhark and.
• 9:20
  It would be great to just. Jump right into talking about
• 9:23
  that, but for the sake of the folks that are maybe just
• 9:27
  listening and and have never heard of, you know what what
• 9:30
  we're talking about. Futhark in general.
• 9:32
  Would you mind maybe just introducing the people to, you
• 9:36
  know, introducing the people yourself to the people and kind
• 9:38
  of giving your background and where you've come from and and
• 9:41
  where you've landed on with this?
• 9:44
  OK. I guess to start with, OK, I
• 9:52
  guess, I guess maybe the back story as to what's led to the
• 9:55
  creation of this. Yeah, let's let's start with you
• 10:00
  as as a as as an individual. I mean, you didn't just wake up
• 10:02
  one day with this great beard and think I'm going to recreate
• 10:05
  a new food arc system, right? You, you have some background in
• 10:10
  at least, you know, academia. You've got Heathenry
• 10:13
  backgrounds. I mean, like kind of, if you
• 10:16
  wouldn't mind, just paint a a short picture of who Eric is for
• 10:19
  the people that don't know who you are and what you've done.
• 10:22
  I guess I would say that I've been, I've been heathen for a
• 10:26
  very long time, I think about 20 years at this point, more than
• 10:31
  20 years. And that's been a long interest.
• 10:33
  And I guess it was an interest in like Germanic things, Viking
• 10:38
  things, and just slowly started maybe over 20 years ago.
• 10:42
  And it's been continually snowballing since then.
• 10:46
  And this ultimately inspired me to one point, to pursue a
• 10:50
  master's degree in Viking studies over in Iceland and
• 10:54
  Norway. That was back in 2014 through
• 10:57
  2016, and then I returned to Iceland for a PhD from 2017 to
• 11:02
  2021. Nice.
• 11:05
  So you are an American obviously but you've travelled abroad in
• 11:10
  Ausland right to to study the Germanic languages and now with
• 11:16
  now now, did your did your interest in that, did it did it
• 11:19
  come from you know obviously you have you know 20 years plus of
• 11:25
  of Heathenry was was the interest to pursue an academic
• 11:31
  higher learning in academia was it fuelled by that or was it
• 11:35
  something else like was it your your Heathenry that was kind of
• 11:38
  pushing that along or was it something kind of separate from
• 11:40
  that? Yes, it was inspired by the
• 11:43
  heathenry. I would say this for me was AI
• 11:49
  guess try to I guess to explore these interests on a like a
• 11:52
  whole level, not just as a like a random hobby and like spare
• 11:57
  time, but to actually go a deep dive into it.
• 12:01
  Yeah, you know, I feel like that people that get into Heathenry
• 12:06
  from other religions, especially if the people that haven't been
• 12:09
  brought up around alternative religions that have either come
• 12:12
  up in a very strictly Christian or strictly, you know,
• 12:15
  monotheistic or something like that background when they
• 12:19
  discover Heathenry. There's there's like for a lot
• 12:23
  of folks at least at some point in time this this this this
• 12:26
  period where they were like how authentic can we get.
• 12:29
  You know how how true to this way can we get.
• 12:32
  And we and they they realize that there's so many gaps
• 12:36
  there's so much that is is is missing knowledge wise of how
• 12:39
  things were particularly done. Also that it wasn't a very
• 12:44
  universal way of doing things. It wasn't like just because you
• 12:46
  were heathen in Scandinavia or in continental Europe that it
• 12:51
  was all done exactly the same way.
• 12:53
  There was variances. So I think that learning more
• 12:58
  about, you know, going into the academic side of things can
• 13:02
  really help people with figuring out where they want to be.
• 13:07
  You know you you want to be a continental Germanic heathen.
• 13:11
  Do you want to learn more into, like the Scandinavian models,
• 13:14
  Icelandic model, things like that?
• 13:17
  So you you definitely went head first into that, it sounds from
• 13:24
  things. And I would say that yes.
• 13:26
  And in that. And I I would say I found my
• 13:29
  niche in all this, interestingly enough with poetry, I think,
• 13:35
  let's see. I think it was.
• 13:37
  Yeah, back in about, yeah, 2010 is when I started developing
• 13:40
  interest in like the old styles of the alliterative poetry that
• 13:44
  were used by the Old Norse, the Old English and presumably also
• 13:50
  their, I guess, their predecessors And like all the
• 13:54
  way back to Proto Germanic. Although unfortunately we don't
• 13:56
  have any surviving well, very few if any of surviving examples
• 14:00
  of like I guess the original alliterative poetry from that
• 14:03
  culture. Yeah, I think the The Golden
• 14:06
  Horns of Gallihoose is the is the main, the one example that
• 14:10
  gets trotted out as an example of like the early poetry.
• 14:15
  But it's that's just one line of poetry.
• 14:19
  What What was it about poetry that that sparked your interest
• 14:22
  so heavily, that particular style?
• 14:25
  You know, skaldic, whatever, alliterative type of poetry.
• 14:33
  That's actually a tough question because I'm not really sure I
• 14:36
  could say, like, why that poetry.
• 14:38
  I can say certainly on my gut, drawn in by that poetry.
• 14:41
  And then ultimately, I guess the Old Norse mythology surrounding
• 14:44
  poetry certainly be, I guess the mythology of it as an Odin
• 14:50
  winning it as a poetic mede that he rescues or steals, depending
• 14:56
  on how you want to look at it, from the giants and the yotans.
• 14:59
  Yeah. And bringing that back to the to
• 15:03
  the Ice here in Asgard, yeah. So since it's it's a case of
• 15:07
  like, it's very different from what you see in like the modern
• 15:10
  contemporary mundane world where poetry is just kind of an
• 15:16
  afterthought to the culture. And like this, in the old N we
• 15:19
  see like poetry with ideas behind its stories, like an
• 15:24
  origin, an entire mythos to it. Yeah well I correct me if I'm
• 15:30
  wrong but I mean the the culture of the of that is is probably
• 15:35
  more important than than other those those other contemporary
• 15:37
  ones that you were saying because there wasn't anyone who
• 15:40
  could write these stories down. So the stories, the miss the
• 15:44
  sagas, we're we're told orally and what better way to retell
• 15:50
  these things than to make it poetic, I guess and and have
• 15:56
  that sort of way of going about delivering it.
• 16:01
  Would you think, would you say that that's a big part of it?
• 16:03
  OK, yes, exactly. It looks certainly in in all
• 16:08
  these pre literate cultures. Poetry is definitely a big thing
• 16:13
  for like for storytelling, for lower all sorts of like
• 16:18
  cultural, just like transmitting stuff from one generation to the
• 16:22
  next. And I guess in this particular
• 16:27
  case the Germanic language family developed a particular
• 16:32
  kind of poetry that works quite a bit differently than, for
• 16:36
  instance, ancient Latin and Greek poetry.
• 16:40
  Oh yeah, yeah. It's like apples and oranges in
• 16:43
  a way, huh? Yes.
• 16:45
  Yeah, fascinating. And you've got some literary
• 16:48
  work yourself that you've published.
• 16:51
  I think the one that I know you most famously for would be the
• 16:55
  Eagle's Mead. OK.
• 16:58
  That's how I've known of you. Like when I got your e-mail
• 17:01
  about coming on the show, I'm like, oh, that guy, you know,
• 17:04
  and I started putting 2 together.
• 17:05
  I'm like, wait, it's the same guy, you know he's the same dude
• 17:08
  that that wrote that and and now has this.
• 17:12
  Or you know, again, timeline wise, I'm sure if you like to
• 17:14
  talk more about when the American food art came into
• 17:17
  play. But it's like, yeah, it's the
• 17:19
  same same person here. Yes, and thank you.
• 17:22
  I especially on Eagles meet I do that is my favorite of the books
• 17:26
  I'm I'm certainly much more happier with my poetry in it.
• 17:30
  Of course it's although it's not my first poetry book the the
• 17:34
  first one being Viking Poetry for Human Rights, which I guess
• 17:37
  remains the more the more popular one in terms of sales,
• 17:40
  but. OK.
• 17:42
  I would say Eagles Meet is definitely the one that I'm
• 17:44
  prouder of as a poet. I actually heard about you
• 17:48
  through social media. It was some some folks have been
• 17:53
  Ohio Rodger Abney and Heidi Beth and then they southwest
• 18:01
  inclusive Heathenry something Eagle Eagle Valley is is what
• 18:04
  their their Facebook group and and page and whatnot are known
• 18:08
  by. And I think I was, I was talking
• 18:10
  to to Rodger on a podcast I had him and Heidi on one time and
• 18:14
  that's when I discovered Eagles Me because he mentions it and
• 18:18
  he's a he's a he's someone who takes a very, very strong focus
• 18:21
  and interest in poetry and and playing on like you know liars.
• 18:26
  And so that's when I discovered you and then now here we are you
• 18:32
  know about a year or two later I think almost talking about this.
• 18:36
  So yeah it's exciting to get to to learn more about this.
• 18:39
  So if you want what's the what's the what's the deal with the
• 18:42
  American Futhark or Futhark in this.
• 18:46
  Case. OK, thanks for the correction.
• 18:48
  I was wondering because I saw the chapter at the end of the
• 18:51
  the name and I'm like, is it you know, the English sound or is it
• 18:56
  just you know how that does? But anyway, I'm sorry, go ahead.
• 19:01
  I think one good starting point is, and I guess from I guess all
• 19:06
  of my studies of the runes of various systems, and realizing
• 19:09
  that with the Elder Futhark, when it was first created, there
• 19:13
  was a very strong link between the language or between between
• 19:17
  the sounds of the language and the ruins of the Elder Futhark.
• 19:21
  For every sound of the language, you would have one stave for it.
• 19:26
  And then for every stave there's one sound to the language.
• 19:32
  And this is a very it's a very elegant and beautiful link to
• 19:36
  that. And but as it turns out, yeah,
• 19:41
  of course we don't speak Proto Germanic today, and so if you
• 19:44
  try to, if you try to pair the runes to modern English, it
• 19:49
  doesn't exactly fit very well. You get a lot of, I guess, what
• 19:55
  you have in some cases. I mean, some runes fit pretty
• 19:58
  well, like T was, which is straightforward fits to our
• 20:01
  modern English letter T It's on other things like you get other
• 20:05
  sounds where, say, the sound in the beginning of the word ship
• 20:10
  that doesn't exactly pair to a rune.
• 20:13
  And I guess the standard, I guess the approach with a lot of
• 20:16
  these alphabets is or I guess alphabetic writing is to just
• 20:22
  stick 2 letters together and we'll say this, this is, this
• 20:25
  will stand for that sound. So then I guess the English in
• 20:30
  in the English alphabetic tradition it's an SH to make
• 20:33
  that sound in most cases. But then you see other words
• 20:38
  like chef, the word chef starts with ACH and then there's some
• 20:42
  words where it's just an S and it's or like another word like
• 20:46
  nation. The sound is there but it's with
• 20:48
  ATI or it gets to be a bit of a mess and I guess it.
• 20:56
  And this is I guess one factor that led to me creating the
• 20:58
  American Futharch is I was dissatisfied with I guess the
• 21:01
  way of like trying to write modern English using the various
• 21:05
  Futhark's because some approaches they basically end up
• 21:10
  duplicating the alphabet way to do a sound.
• 21:13
  And I guess one way you can sum this up is let's the English
• 21:17
  alphabetic tradition. It's a one trick pony and that
• 21:21
  if it didn't know what to do with the sound it just picked
• 21:24
  something close and stuck an H after it.
• 21:29
  And you have so many combos for like there's THCHSH some cases
• 21:34
  DHWH and you even put it after vowels and it gets to be.
• 21:40
  A. Bit of a mess, and in that I I
• 21:46
  especially when I was when I would write like use like the
• 21:49
  Elder Futhark in some cases the Anglo-Saxon or even the Younger
• 21:52
  Futhark. I liked writing it in those in
• 21:55
  their in their appropriate languages because then the
• 21:57
  spelling to the sound is very direct.
• 22:00
  If you're writing those older languages you can use the runes
• 22:03
  the way they were intended to like OK, what?
• 22:07
  What rune stands represents this particular sound, and you can do
• 22:13
  that with all the with the older languages pretty decently pretty
• 22:17
  exactly to varying degrees. But then when you try to do it
• 22:20
  to modern English, it becomes a bit of a mess.
• 22:23
  Yeah, yeah, that gets asked a lot.
• 22:26
  People want to know how how do I write this?
• 22:29
  How do I write my daughter's name or my you know, kids name
• 22:31
  or something in in rooms? And yeah, it comes up in the
• 22:35
  modern system you can have. Yeah, it basically comes down to
• 22:39
  each personal maybe different people will come up with
• 22:42
  different ideas for various sounds.
• 22:43
  I mean some of them are pretty easy like if you're writing like
• 22:47
  the word quest you would if you resort to the to the the sounds
• 22:53
  of it, you can do like a a canos and a wun yo.
• 22:57
  But then of course if you're trying to write the word ship,
• 22:59
  then you just end up falling back onto Latinates conventions
• 23:04
  or or other things in those cases.
• 23:07
  Yeah, or even, you know, people with names like mine.
• 23:10
  You know, like the J sound doesn't exist in the Elder
• 23:15
  Futhark or any of the, you know, the Futhark runic systems that I
• 23:21
  know of. Right.
• 23:23
  I don't think it even really existed yet in the old well.
• 23:26
  I mean the sound, I guess to the extent the sound existed in
• 23:29
  Anglo-Saxon, they made it with two runes or two letters,
• 23:34
  typically CG when they wrote it in Latin letters.
• 23:36
  Or I think maybe they would use chain and yevu when they're
• 23:41
  writing it in runes. But yeah, I mean they came up
• 23:45
  with their own versions of using two sounds for their two symbols
• 23:49
  for various sounds. Which, I mean, they had to,
• 23:53
  right? Because languages evolve.
• 23:54
  And I mean they were, you know, they're it it they you know like
• 23:59
  the the, the way that the language is evolved.
• 24:01
  You know you're going to have sounds and and and phenoms and
• 24:04
  things that appear in these newer spoken languages that
• 24:06
  didn't exist previously. But that was an interesting term
• 24:10
  because we see in the early days of the Anglo-Saxon Futhark, when
• 24:13
  they had new sounds, they added new rune staves.
• 24:17
  That's why you get in the earlier days, you have those
• 24:19
  extra 1, those additional vowels at the end like Ock and Ash and
• 24:23
  Ear and the Rogers, and then you do see that with some of the
• 24:27
  consonants where they get new consonant runes in order to
• 24:30
  accommodate those sounds. But I guess you know where this
• 24:33
  is where this is getting to like the nine hundreds 1000s and then
• 24:36
  like the I guess the system is kind of becoming a bit decadent
• 24:40
  and it's been managed by the church for like a couple
• 24:43
  centuries. Could they start putting in AQ
• 24:45
  rune And then there's an X rune and?
• 24:50
  Yeah, which almost doesn't make sense, right?
• 24:51
  If you're thinking of it from the sound you have.
• 24:54
  An an X makes AX sound. Yeah, it's two.
• 24:58
  Sounds. Yeah, Yeah, right.
• 25:00
  It's a combined. Yeah, exactly.
• 25:05
  The combined sound. So why, why?
• 25:07
  Why create a whole new letter? But I guess I'm going to tie it
• 25:11
  back to the I guess getting to the American Futharch and my
• 25:14
  poetic interests. It was a poetic interests that
• 25:17
  very much motivated this in the beginning is in the alliterative
• 25:22
  poetry. Without going into it, like an
• 25:26
  in depth explanation of how it works, but involves matching
• 25:30
  initial sounds and stressed syllables.
• 25:33
  So it's the sounds that's matching the sounds that
• 25:36
  important, not the way they're spelled or might be written down
• 25:39
  or any other system. So it's it becomes a question of
• 25:43
  like I guess there's like and so I finally, I've been writing
• 25:47
  this poetry for a long time but finally started to grapple with
• 25:50
  like what are all the possible sounds you could use in this
• 25:55
  poetry. And when it comes down to that I
• 26:01
  guess I I saw this as and then the early part of the in the
• 26:05
  developing this I kind of think of it myself as a champion for
• 26:08
  the sounds of the language themselves.
• 26:13
  And so in that case that meant the sounds were important and
• 26:19
  for me the sounds all the sounds were important and equally
• 26:22
  important. So they should all get equal
• 26:24
  dignity. And to me, I found that I guess
• 26:28
  from the point of the view of the sounds almost a bit I guess
• 26:32
  borderline offensive to the sounds.
• 26:33
  Like some sounds being treated as like first class sounds where
• 26:37
  they get to be written with one letter and then the others being
• 26:40
  like essentially treated as second class sounds because you
• 26:43
  have to make them with two letters or two routines.
• 26:48
  And again that's a sign that we're and that's actually that
• 26:51
  kind of a set up that's getting away from the original Elder
• 26:54
  Futhark. We're in the original Elder
• 26:57
  Futhark. We had that one sound, one
• 26:59
  stave, so all the sounds gets equal dignity there and I guess
• 27:04
  the language change it lost that.
• 27:07
  Yeah. And was I guess for for me as a
• 27:10
  poet that was one of the the major foundations is to restore
• 27:15
  this and as a guide to the sounds where all the sounds have
• 27:20
  their equal dignity. And if if for those who wants to
• 27:24
  look in terms of like esoteric uses of the runes to give one
• 27:28
  example, it helps that way. Because if if you're looking at
• 27:31
  the the like fee or fehu, you can have one rune for that but
• 27:35
  then you can perhaps try to analyze the sound in terms of
• 27:38
  like the meanings of fehu as in welfare so forth.
• 27:41
  But if you're looking at Ship and he wants to esotericize
• 27:46
  about the the sound on, that's like, how would you go about
• 27:48
  treating that? Like, does it make any sense to
• 27:52
  like decide that it's a linear combination of say so, Willow
• 27:56
  and Hagalaz? And the answer is no it does
• 28:01
  not. I mean, they may have had their
• 28:04
  various historical origins, but then you start to treat these
• 28:10
  sounds as things they are not. And in order to, I guess, fix
• 28:15
  this particular issue, I decided that the only way to address
• 28:20
  that was to actually restore the whole 1 sound one stave.
• 28:23
  Approach Right. So instead of having to combine
• 28:28
  the the soul and haggle's room to make the sound, you would
• 28:33
  have its own dignified symbol which in your system right like
• 28:38
  the IT it looks like. And again for folks that that
• 28:43
  want to look into this themselves it's American
• 28:45
  futharch.com link is going to be in the show notes and
• 28:49
  description and so all of this is is on your website there Ira
• 28:54
  and so it looks like you know you've got the the sun rune
• 28:57
  which looks like the the the the typical kind of S shaped very
• 29:01
  linear but then the the the ship room has a almost looks like a
• 29:06
  backwards 3 but very linear but it also I I I've I've seen that
• 29:12
  that shape of of your rune of your ship room I've seen that
• 29:16
  represented as the soul or solilo rune.
• 29:20
  I don't know in what runic inscriptions I've seen it but it
• 29:23
  does look like that sort of zigzaggy backwards 3.
• 29:27
  Scott, do you know what, guys, What I'm talking about when I'm
• 29:30
  saying that? OK, yeah.
• 29:31
  I think you have an example on the killer runestone actually.
• 29:34
  Yeah, Yes. I guess sort of like if you look
• 29:38
  at like maybe in some cases like idealized versions of the of the
• 29:42
  various Futharks, the one with the squiggles is perhaps more
• 29:47
  toward the Elder period, whereas it's when you get to the, say,
• 29:51
  Younger Futhark or the Old English Futhark or Anglo-Saxon,
• 29:55
  then it gets to be more the vertical one.
• 29:58
  Mm hmm. Yeah, more just three linear
• 30:01
  lines that make that, like you say, like very straight S sound
• 30:05
  or S shape. Yeah.
• 30:09
  So looking at the American Futharch, if I were just an
• 30:15
  ignorant person that had no prior knowledge of this and
• 30:19
  maybe just a bit of a nerd, this is no disrespect.
• 30:23
  But if I was just that type of person, you know, I would be
• 30:25
  like oh man, this kind of looks like something out of Tolkien,
• 30:28
  you know, like it looks like some, you know, Kirith Dorvin
• 30:32
  runes or something, you know any anything to say to that or you
• 30:37
  know, like is it was there any? Like I know Tolkien took a lot
• 30:41
  of his inspiration from Anglo-Saxon runes and and Elder
• 30:47
  Futhark runes creating the Kirith runic system.
• 30:52
  But yeah, like anything that you would want to like, is that on
• 30:56
  purpose or is there anything that you would say to that or?
• 30:59
  OK, yes, that does bring to a point I intended to make.
• 31:03
  I think when we see the we see the Elder Futhark at least has
• 31:07
  is somewhat widely known amongst Heathens and casual rumors and
• 31:13
  also the younger Futhark to some degree.
• 31:14
  But there does seem to be a bit in my view, in my opinion.
• 31:17
  I'm sensing there's a bit of a blind spot with regards to the
• 31:20
  Anglo-Saxon Futhork. There may be many like I guess a
• 31:25
  lot of humans may not be quite as familiar with it.
• 31:29
  There's like I I based in in making the reform and making the
• 31:32
  American Futhark. I consider it a reform of the
• 31:35
  Anglo-Saxon Futhork. OK.
• 31:38
  And there's I guess for those who have enough familiarity with
• 31:41
  the Anglo-Saxon Futhorc, there's quite a number of tells in the
• 31:46
  structure of the American Futhorc that points to that as
• 31:49
  kind of as where as my starting point like the, the, the the
• 31:55
  entry of the. I guess some of the two, the two
• 31:57
  obvious ones. The beginning would be the name
• 31:59
  of the third rune is Thorn, which is straight out of the
• 32:02
  Anglo-Saxon Futhorc. And then the 4th Ruin OS and its
• 32:07
  particular shape where instead of being like the old Ansus with
• 32:11
  like the two limbs pointing down, it now has this like yeah,
• 32:17
  I can't do that very well. On the on the video here it's
• 32:20
  got the this these two chevrons. Yeah, yeah.
• 32:25
  It's like Ansus, but with a with a little bit of attitude on it
• 32:28
  at the end sort of, yeah. Yeah, it does.
• 32:33
  I mean it does, It does have echoes of of the Anglo-Saxon
• 32:37
  Futhorc and I guess so. So why go that, Why go It's
• 32:41
  because of the fact that you feel like there's a just a a gap
• 32:47
  of of knowing amongst heathens or or amongst runners of the
• 32:51
  Anglo-Saxon Futhorc and so do you.
• 32:54
  I guess what I'm trying to say is is like will will this, will
• 32:59
  there be any risk run in in developing this further or using
• 33:02
  this further that that takes away from learning these these
• 33:06
  these other runic systems? Or is it independent in itself
• 33:10
  and and you can be fine learning this in itself if you don't
• 33:15
  learn the others as well? Or do you have to have like a
• 33:18
  basic rudimentary understanding of these other runic systems?
• 33:22
  Kind of where this where your Futharch system was inspired by
• 33:27
  before you can get into it? I would say no, you would not
• 33:31
  need to have necessarily any kind of background in the older
• 33:36
  runic systems in order to use the American Foutharch.
• 33:40
  It may help in certain ways and then but then the other side of
• 33:45
  that is in learning the American Futharch and learning how to use
• 33:48
  it properly. This is the kind of thing that
• 33:50
  will help maybe people get a better understanding of how the
• 33:54
  the older Futhark's worked in terms of the runes representing
• 33:58
  sounds is in is in addition to like a blind.
• 34:02
  Initially, as I said, a blind spot for the Anglo-Saxon
• 34:05
  Futhark. I see a lot of people, they try
• 34:07
  to write runes. The approach they take is what
• 34:11
  rune can I use to stand for such and such ladder in the alphabet.
• 34:17
  And you know this, this dovetails back to my early
• 34:20
  point. I find this this is somewhat
• 34:23
  demeaning to both the runes and the sounds they're supposed to
• 34:26
  represent. It's certainly not.
• 34:29
  I guess it leads one away from understanding how the runes
• 34:32
  worked in those cultures. Well, I'm glad to hear you,
• 34:37
  like, bring that up, because I think what some folks might be
• 34:41
  feeling of that when they see stuff like this, there's almost
• 34:47
  a feeling of like, Oh no, how disrespectful of the
• 34:52
  Scandinavian culture where these runes originated from.
• 34:57
  These are, these are, these belong to that culture.
• 34:59
  This is, is this some sort of cultural, you know,
• 35:02
  appropriation? From what you're talking here,
• 35:04
  it seems like you have a very keen awareness of, of the
• 35:08
  opposite of that. You feel like, you know, I don't
• 35:11
  want to put words into your mouth, but it's it.
• 35:13
  It from what I'm hearing, it sounds like you're saying the
• 35:16
  opposite of that in the sense that if you're if you're
• 35:18
  misusing them, then that is the that is the true crime here if
• 35:21
  you want to call it as such. Well, I guess, yeah, kind of.
• 35:27
  But I was going to go, the answer I was going into that
• 35:29
  question is like, yeah, that was a strange accusation of the idea
• 35:34
  of, let's say, misappropriating Scandinavian culture.
• 35:37
  Because as I said, this is based on the Anglo-Saxon futhwork,
• 35:40
  which I guess my own, my own linguistic heritage and and a
• 35:45
  number of my ancestors. So I guess the idea of
• 35:50
  culturally appropriating my own ancestors just strikes me as a
• 35:55
  little odd. Yeah, like it's a bit oxymoronic
• 35:58
  I think to say the least. Yeah, where do we, where do we
• 36:08
  see like, I guess I'm trying to come up with another follow up
• 36:14
  from one of my previous questions.
• 36:15
  Where do we see like the American Futharch in modern
• 36:21
  Heathenry? Like, do we see potentially, you
• 36:26
  know, modern Heathens erecting rune stones and commemorating
• 36:31
  their family or something like that and and and navigating into
• 36:36
  let, you know, using the American Futharch to to carve
• 36:40
  runes to their memory, as it were.
• 36:42
  Do you think that that's a possibility?
• 36:44
  Yes. And at some point, if I can
• 36:46
  manage that, I I certainly will carve rune stones myself using
• 36:52
  it. That's certainly the plan.
• 36:55
  As to what? How soon I can carve a rune
• 36:57
  stone, I understand those take a bit of time.
• 37:02
  Yeah, I'm sure even with modern, you know, conveniences.
• 37:05
  And now if you were to, if you were to venture off into that,
• 37:08
  would you, would you go old, you know, hammer and chisel or would
• 37:12
  you maybe use it like a Dremel or something?
• 37:15
  I mean like hammer and chisel. I I do know some people who do
• 37:18
  make modern rune stones. That's certainly a big
• 37:20
  undertaking. I most of my rune carving now is
• 37:25
  at the moment has been in wood like for instance I'm making a
• 37:31
  set of these rune lots in the American Futharch and using them
• 37:35
  for rune casting. OK, so yeah, that's the other
• 37:41
  thing too. Like we, we, we've, we've really
• 37:43
  like gone into the, you know, the the practical, linguistical
• 37:48
  application of of this system. You're talking about creating
• 37:52
  lots and using them as as, as divinatory tools now too.
• 37:58
  Yes, that's a that's a whole new topic to breach.
• 38:03
  I think 'cause they do, they have, they have names, you know
• 38:06
  these these, these rune characters of your system do
• 38:09
  have names, and they also have poems to go with each of rune.
• 38:15
  So there is an American English rune poem, right?
• 38:18
  A ERP as you call it. So I did want to touch back on
• 38:23
  one thing. As you said, ritual, I guess.
• 38:24
  Certainly, before we get to rune stones, I guess the immediate
• 38:29
  steps that can be taken in some cases, like people will do for
• 38:33
  some kinds of ritual, they will write things in runes, whether
• 38:37
  they'll carve them in wood. Or maybe in some cases they'll
• 38:39
  write them on paper and then burn that in a fire or bury.
• 38:44
  That or other cases. And this is certainly meant for
• 38:47
  modern heathens to use it for ritual purposes as a way to
• 38:51
  write modern English. Yeah.
• 38:55
  And let let's let's all like just as we're talking clearly
• 38:57
  we're talking about you know the English language.
• 39:01
  You know if you're obviously a a native, you know Scandinavian
• 39:05
  and you're speaking in, you know, Swedish, Norwegian or
• 39:07
  Icelandic or something, then you would tend to lean into the
• 39:10
  either the new or Scandinavian runic system or do younger
• 39:16
  Futhark for Old Norse or something like that, right.
• 39:18
  Like there's no reason to correct.
• 39:21
  Take that away. This is, this is predominantly,
• 39:23
  and this is really just for the modern American English speaking
• 39:27
  heathens. Yes, in that sense it's it's
• 39:30
  most precisely tuned to modern American English.
• 39:34
  The the 5th British English is not quite as exact with regards
• 39:39
  to the vowels, although it's although it's pretty close I
• 39:42
  see. So the it's it's it's very
• 39:45
  interesting to see, but that would get off into a tangent I
• 39:48
  guess the way Englishes are diverged and the way they have
• 39:51
  different sounds to them, like even Australian English has its
• 39:54
  divergences from British. Yeah, well, dude, I mean, I
• 39:57
  don't know where you're from here in the US, but I mean, you
• 40:00
  know, travel, travel around a bit.
• 40:02
  Northeasterners are going to talk different than the
• 40:03
  Southerners, which are going to talk different from people out
• 40:06
  in the Pacific Northwest and. Yeah, like you've got dialects
• 40:09
  here too in in our country. So yeah, that's the thing.
• 40:13
  For sure. Wow.
• 40:19
  So divination with with with these you you you you said you
• 40:23
  started to carve lots with your with your American food arch
• 40:31
  runes. Have you explored them in a
• 40:35
  divinatory way? And esoterically, whatever you
• 40:39
  want to call it, really. Yes, I've been doing using them
• 40:43
  for rune casting. Let's see, I think going back to
• 40:46
  sometime in in the middle of last year started rune casts and
• 40:53
  moving up to. Yeah, gradually moving up to
• 40:55
  more complicated rune casts with them.
• 40:59
  Yeah, so I'm a I'm a very I'm very in tune with like this is a
• 41:03
  this is a topic. Runic Divination is is a big one
• 41:05
  for me because I do runic castings here locally for
• 41:12
  heathen events and it's based on the elder Futhark runes.
• 41:17
  My my methodology behind it is as close to it.
• 41:22
  I've been able to learn what could potentially have been the
• 41:24
  way that the Germanic tribes casted lots as described by
• 41:30
  Tacitus. You know that they were cast.
• 41:33
  They weren't spread out like a tarot deck or anything like
• 41:35
  that, that they were cast, you know, and I try to like adopted
• 41:40
  my methodology as as what I would think is as close to that
• 41:44
  as possible. I don't do Merck Stav you know
• 41:48
  readings because I feel like the inherent meaning if you're going
• 41:51
  to look at what the rune itself means to me that the the the
• 41:56
  meaning doesn't change just because it's inverted or not.
• 41:59
  It would be like, well, a tree is a tree no matter which way
• 42:03
  it's pointed. You know what I mean?
• 42:04
  Like that sort of thing or so so and the only reason like you
• 42:09
  know we we have this this approach to runic divination is
• 42:13
  because of people's work before it, you know, well this is what
• 42:16
  the rune means. We've got these rune poems.
• 42:18
  This is what we you know we can tank from it.
• 42:21
  Can anybody learn runic divination with the American
• 42:24
  Futharch runes or is there is or or should there be a more like,
• 42:31
  I don't know, approached approaches or you know, take
• 42:34
  lessons from somebody who who created this.
• 42:37
  Like would they need to go through you first to before they
• 42:41
  could effectively go on your website, carve a bunch of these
• 42:46
  onto some wood or stone or whatever they want to do, and
• 42:48
  then come up with their own way of reading them OK?
• 42:52
  Well, let's see. I would say at this time it may
• 42:55
  depend, I think in part about how much experience and
• 42:59
  enthusiasm they have in that. If they have a if they have a
• 43:03
  lot of experience with the runes, and I guess with modern
• 43:08
  systems, whether they have a lot of experience with divination
• 43:11
  and a lot of enthusiasm, maybe they've used, like runes in
• 43:15
  other contexts, meditative or magical work, then I think that
• 43:20
  may they could perhaps jump in and dive on that.
• 43:26
  If they. In other words, if they've
• 43:27
  developed the kind of meditative and esoteric practices by which
• 43:31
  they can, like, tease out, draw out and evolve their own
• 43:37
  understandings of the meanings of these things and like, relate
• 43:41
  them to the appropriate context. Yeah.
• 43:45
  At some point. At some point.
• 43:46
  That's that's a lot of to some degree that's a lot of internal
• 43:49
  work to like build your understanding of like what in in
• 43:53
  this case like what feihu means in the Elder Futhark and like
• 43:56
  what Mana's means. And then of course you have to
• 44:01
  go through a similar process for like some of these new ones like
• 44:07
  for instance like what would genre mean in a divinatory
• 44:11
  context and what would things like perhaps eagle and how you
• 44:16
  might in doing this like relate them to the lore and and this is
• 44:20
  where so if someone's really enterprising enough they could
• 44:24
  perhaps undertake this in the cells.
• 44:26
  But I would agree that at the moment like the amount of like
• 44:30
  support materials and documentations and like
• 44:32
  guideposts for this doesn't exist yet.
• 44:36
  I certainly plan to write such things cause like most people
• 44:40
  using divination, I mean they didn't ruins for divination.
• 44:43
  They didn't learn the elder Futhark from a blank slate.
• 44:46
  They went on out. They went out and got somebody's
• 44:48
  book at least at some point talking about some author or
• 44:54
  other as a guide to what these things mean in certain contexts,
• 44:57
  whether that's like say books by Edward Thorson or books by
• 45:01
  various like dozens or even, I don't know, for hundreds of
• 45:04
  other authors. Yeah.
• 45:06
  So in the sense it is more difficult in that the like.
• 45:11
  So for some of the ruins like for instance Hale, like that's
• 45:15
  which on the name in the American food arch that traces
• 45:18
  back the hog laws, these frozen white rocks that fall from the
• 45:22
  sky haven't changed in in like 2500 years.
• 45:26
  So you're probably not going to get to anything new or unusual
• 45:30
  from Hale and the American Futharch that differs from
• 45:33
  Hagalaz and the older Futhark in your understanding.
• 45:37
  But then other rooms other with the other names That would take
• 45:41
  a bit more work and. Yeah, like that was the other
• 45:45
  thing, too. Like, I noticed that had come up
• 45:47
  when we were, or that that had come up in that post I had made
• 45:51
  about it. It was you know you've got a
• 45:53
  room for the I East side oh East side.
• 45:58
  But your your American Futhark's rune is it's incense and it
• 46:03
  raises the question for one to go, well, why not just ice?
• 46:08
  Why you know, or why? Why change that from its
• 46:12
  inherent, well, perhaps inherent, you know meaning of
• 46:15
  ice, you know, to to be a sticky resin, you know, or something
• 46:21
  like that, you know. OK, yeah, that goes back to the
• 46:25
  linguistic foundations of it and that there's another way to put
• 46:31
  why do all this? And at least for my insight that
• 46:36
  it was connecting and like restoring that living language
• 46:39
  link because like for the for those first rune masters there
• 46:42
  was like a perfect link between the language and the staves and
• 46:46
  restoring that was ultimately at the very top of the priority and
• 46:52
  the linguistics didn't really allow for retaining ice as a
• 46:56
  rune name because it's it's not one sound that starts the word I
• 47:00
  that vow. It's two it's two sounds in the
• 47:02
  modern language I see so many of these things changed and it's
• 47:08
  but then I guess you know a a rune name changing and becoming
• 47:12
  unsuitable for the runic system that's that's happened before
• 47:16
  quite a lot we see for instance in I mean the younger Futhark,
• 47:20
  they threw out at least eight of their rune names and I am the
• 47:27
  staves associated with them And then we're also left in the in
• 47:29
  the Anglo-Saxon we're left wondering did they throw things
• 47:34
  out because when you try to reconstruct these for instance
• 47:38
  you see in like in the Anglo-Saxon the third one is
• 47:41
  named Thorn. In the younger Futhark, it's
• 47:44
  named Thirs. Thirs, I mean these are
• 47:48
  irreconcilable. They don't go back to the same
• 47:50
  route. So you if you if you ask like
• 47:53
  what was the name of the Elder Futhark rune it's like you have
• 47:57
  to like can it be both of them you you you'd have to postulate
• 48:00
  something like it had both names and like maybe one was lost or
• 48:05
  but then of course you know the younger systems, they all they
• 48:08
  all just have one name for each of the runes for the most part
• 48:12
  as we see. So like there's an
• 48:13
  irreconcilable difference there. So one way you look at it like
• 48:18
  someone lost the original name whether it was the Old English
• 48:21
  that lost the original name or the Norse that lost the original
• 48:24
  name that's that's one of those up in the air.
• 48:27
  Although I think usually most people come down on the side
• 48:30
  that the original name was probably Thoris Oz instead of
• 48:32
  something like Thurnus or something.
• 48:35
  Yeah. So the your names names get
• 48:38
  changed out and due to language changes in some cases like maybe
• 48:42
  the word falls out of use. We know like for instance in the
• 48:47
  Old English we have chain as a word for torch in that in the
• 48:52
  Old English shoe thorc but and then in Old Norse we have cown
• 48:55
  instead for that ruin meaning like boil or sore right.
• 49:00
  So I guess maybe one way to look at that is probably the
• 49:03
  whatever. If it was originally CANOS, then
• 49:05
  that word got lost in Old Norse and so they had to replace it.
• 49:09
  Yeah, yeah, there are definitely some that, like I've talked to
• 49:13
  the the episode before this one that's airing.
• 49:15
  There was a guy that I had on here who wrote a book called The
• 49:17
  Call of the Runes and he's, he's Danish.
• 49:22
  Yeah. From the well, he's from, yeah,
• 49:24
  the the Netherlands and so he. But he wrote a book called Call
• 49:30
  the Runes and he was even, you know agreeing like some some of
• 49:35
  these old some of the names of the runes.
• 49:37
  It can be problematic getting into and you know like you say
• 49:42
  irreconcilable on on what it was it originally.
• 49:45
  You know because you have again these conflicting things like
• 49:49
  the the Thuri sauce Thoris Thorne thing you've got the
• 49:56
  well, the one that you just said that the count Canos one.
• 50:00
  There's. I think there's another one too.
• 50:03
  I was. I was.
• 50:03
  Trying to think, I guess it it's or in all three of them, young,
• 50:07
  younger, in all three of the poems.
• 50:09
  But it's they all mean different things.
• 50:11
  In one case it's for as like an R ox and then another one it's a
• 50:15
  drizzle. Another one it's for is slag.
• 50:16
  So it's like the same. The word sounds the same, but
• 50:19
  then it's three different meanings.
• 50:21
  Then there was the Lagus lauk one there, you know, was it
• 50:25
  water? Is it leak?
• 50:28
  Yeah, That's fascinating. Scott, what do you think that's
• 50:37
  opens? And what direction right which
• 50:41
  direction? Lagu's Lauka thing right there.
• 50:46
  I'm sorry the the the Leak versus lake.
• 50:49
  Sorry. Coming way off guard.
• 50:52
  Leak versus water. Interestingly enough Leak was
• 50:56
  never a ruined name. It's just been one of those
• 50:59
  things that was suggested probably by Krause's generation
• 51:04
  or before. Where the.
• 51:16
  Back up a second because you tried that one more time.
• 51:19
  I lost you there for about 18 words.
• 51:22
  Oh shoot. OK, so I was just saying how the
• 51:27
  word leak is not an actual, you know, rune name, at least
• 51:31
  attested in a rune poem. But the reason why it was
• 51:35
  suggested as an alternate room name is because of the Lagos
• 51:40
  room, for example, is written on a runic inscription where it's,
• 51:43
  you know, Lagos, Lagos, Lagos. And the older rinologists from,
• 51:49
  like Krause's era. And before him said, oh, this
• 51:52
  must mean leak, leak, leak instead.
• 51:54
  And then they further translated that as penis, penis, penis.
• 51:57
  So that's where we get that room name, Yeah.
• 52:04
  So just a bunch of Dicks on a stone somewhere.
• 52:07
  Sure. But it actually was something
• 52:09
  like that, You know, like it was it was supposedly very graphic.
• 52:16
  Oh wow. Phallic in nature.
• 52:18
  Almost. Maybe Very.
• 52:19
  Phallic, yeah. Yeah.
• 52:20
  OK. Well that's we see that
• 52:23
  sometimes too in in other. But yeah, no, I have all kinds
• 52:27
  of other questions too, Jesse. But like I said, I was going to
• 52:29
  save my questions for the end, but you know, whatever is
• 52:33
  comfortable for you guys, whatever.
• 52:34
  It feels like a good transition, you know?
• 52:37
  Yeah I mean Eric we I feel I mean I I did I think I did my
• 52:42
  best to try to give the the audience a a good opportunity
• 52:46
  for you to explain this whole thing a bit.
• 52:50
  We've we've gone now for almost almost an hour in in in that.
• 52:54
  Would you like to field some questions at this point or is
• 52:58
  there anything else that you would like to to really just
• 53:00
  take a focus on beforehand that is of particular interest for
• 53:04
  you that I may have missed or just didn't cover at all?
• 53:06
  Let's? See, take just a moment.
• 53:13
  Here, take a look. Pardon the glare on the glasses
• 53:18
  here, I'm. Oh, that's OK.
• 53:20
  I live with that. Glasses.
• 53:21
  Yeah, OK. There's so much about this that
• 53:34
  people can learn themselves. Like I feel if they go to your
• 53:36
  website and read, you know why and you know what and and and
• 53:44
  all of that, like there's so much there that they can they
• 53:46
  can learn. From I did see I want to say
• 53:49
  another thing about. I guess one of the major, I
• 53:51
  guess purposes of of this among others is that I think with this
• 53:59
  is the kind of system where in order to use it properly, it, it
• 54:05
  forces you to confront the actual sounds of your own
• 54:08
  speech. And that's very deliberate.
• 54:11
  And that's well, not just deliberate, it's it's a
• 54:14
  necessity. It's actually get to get all the
• 54:17
  intended benefits of this. It does require like a self
• 54:23
  confrontation with the sounds of one's own speech.
• 54:27
  It gets it's it's meant to get you to start to think about how
• 54:31
  you're how the words you're saying actually sound.
• 54:35
  Because one of the metaphors I used for those people who
• 54:38
  remember the movie The Matrix is that the alphabet is kind of
• 54:41
  like the world pulled over your eyes to blind you to the truth
• 54:45
  of how your language sounds. We learn how we learn English
• 54:49
  spelling. And so when we anyone who starts
• 54:52
  using the American Futharch, they're going to come with
• 54:54
  certain preconceptions about how they think their speech sounds,
• 54:59
  and it's going to be conditioned by the alphabet and so part of
• 55:03
  that sounds. Really good.
• 55:04
  I'm sorry I wasn't planning on interrupting, but I'm gonna
• 55:06
  exactly like, all right, so for the audience, if they think they
• 55:10
  really know their sounds, think about how the how these three
• 55:16
  words are spelled. And then think to yourself why
• 55:19
  they sound different. Tomb.
• 55:23
  Tomb Comb Co MB Bomb Bo, MB That's all I was going to.
• 55:36
  Say, yeah, that that's a great example.
• 55:38
  There's and there's you know that could that kind of example
• 55:42
  could be multiplied ad nauseam, quite literally.
• 55:48
  So this is. So using this I guess we'll get
• 55:51
  one to confront the way the language sounds and you'll
• 55:55
  you'll gain more as you get better with writing.
• 55:58
  It's more conscious awareness of how your speech sounds and then
• 56:02
  that's when that's when you I guess like applying this if one
• 56:07
  wants to do ruin magic using that that's part of the that's
• 56:12
  part of the point here that linkage between the sound and
• 56:15
  the stave and that you have you can be carving the stave or and
• 56:22
  also chanting it at the same time or maybe just chanting the
• 56:25
  particular stave and then visualizing it.
• 56:30
  Something I've noticed I'll say to give an example from my own
• 56:33
  experience of like how I use and relate to them is I'm gonna this
• 56:39
  was a Twitter thing a while back about whether people have an
• 56:42
  internal monologue. I don't know if you saw that
• 56:45
  within a couple months ago, like so.
• 56:47
  Some people will have an internal monologue and some
• 56:49
  don't, so maybe they'll have different experiences.
• 56:51
  I'm one of those people with an internal monologue.
• 56:55
  It's the way I think very frequently goes as something
• 56:58
  that's like a sound stream, and I'm also a little visual that I
• 57:03
  can like picture alphabetic words along with that.
• 57:07
  But now I'm now practicing with my own Futharch.
• 57:10
  I will like practice like picturing along the rune staves
• 57:14
  that go with the words I'm thinking and so that that's a
• 57:24
  very interesting effect. I mean I can't quite run it at
• 57:26
  exactly the same speed that the sound goes through.
• 57:30
  That slows the bit right down. If I'm trying to like image,
• 57:35
  like put images in my mind to go with the sounds but that's
• 57:40
  certainly something that I feel it's.
• 57:42
  I find it's like a powerful effect for me as a way to like
• 57:46
  then ultimately visualize and like focus on say, the runes and
• 57:52
  the sounds at the same time. So, like, almost have like this,
• 57:59
  for lack of a better term, like a Golder, Golder, Stuffer,
• 58:03
  Golder practice to along with it, yeah.
• 58:06
  Yes. And that that dovetails to
• 58:08
  another point in this in that because this is a system that
• 58:11
  fits perfectly to the language, you can now use all the sounds
• 58:16
  of the language in a Golder approach.
• 58:19
  I mean, prior to this, again there's there's a number of
• 58:22
  sounds in modern English that would be if you're just
• 58:25
  gathering using the elder Futhark, a number of sounds are
• 58:28
  just simply left out of the practice.
• 58:32
  Like they're like again, these these were like with the new
• 58:36
  runes like ship or genre or like gem or or things like charcoal.
• 58:42
  A lot of these are sent or even some of the particular vowels,
• 58:46
  so many of these were just. If you're just gathering with
• 58:49
  Elder futhark, it leaves out so many sounds that are in your
• 58:53
  native language. And maybe one more interesting
• 58:57
  point I would make on that, especially for the especially
• 59:01
  for the kind of crowd that likes to be like hyper
• 59:03
  reconstructionist on these sorts of things, is that most people
• 59:08
  when they gouter using the elder Futhark, what they really do is
• 59:12
  they put in the modern English equivalents to the sounds
• 59:15
  because the the reconstructions are best guessed like the Feju
• 59:19
  was maybe not exactly our modern English F Bear Cano wasn't
• 59:23
  exactly the modern B and there's so many there's they're close
• 59:27
  fits but there's a number of these others that aren't quite
• 59:31
  exact fits and but what we do as American speakers, unless you're
• 59:35
  really well trained you're just going to substitute the sound
• 59:39
  you already have built in from your modern language.
• 59:42
  Everyone does that. I'm certainly guilty of that
• 59:44
  too. And so this the the American
• 59:47
  Futharch has a new approach to Galliter like why not just try
• 59:52
  using your own language on its own terms.
• 59:57
  And so that way there's no question about whether or not
• 1:00:00
  you're you're you're correctly reproducing ancient sound or
• 1:00:03
  not. And I mean this may be an
• 1:00:06
  advantage to American speakers cause a lot of American
• 1:00:09
  speakers, they don't learn foreign languages.
• 1:00:12
  So that may be so that's yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's very well
• 1:00:16
  known how American speakers are typically infamous for not
• 1:00:20
  learning foreign languages. Yeah, it's it's almost like a
• 1:00:24
  it's not even a requirement in in schools anymore is it like
• 1:00:28
  you don't have to learn a secondary language.
• 1:00:31
  If you do, it's like, well, Spanish, French or something
• 1:00:34
  like a year if that. There's no, there's no push to
• 1:00:38
  it. I'm looking through some of
• 1:00:39
  these. I reckon I'm just, I'm like I
• 1:00:41
  have so many questions and I could probably go down so many
• 1:00:45
  rabbit holes just asking you about things.
• 1:00:47
  I gotta say though I like I'm, I get a kick out of some of these
• 1:00:53
  and again it's it's just because I'm, I'm learning it and and
• 1:00:55
  seeing it you know with fresh eyes.
• 1:00:58
  But the that away I just, I love it, 'cause that's such an
• 1:01:05
  American, like go that away. You know it's it's it's it's it
• 1:01:10
  is fence and thither both as you as as you're pulling someone.
• 1:01:15
  That away is Vince and Thither both.
• 1:01:18
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, some of these fridge.
• 1:01:20
  I guess they'll be like I'll probably have audio recordings,
• 1:01:23
  because again it comes down to the problem of America like
• 1:01:27
  English spelling, especially on some of these.
• 1:01:30
  Yeah. Yeah, some of these.
• 1:01:32
  Some of the lines were a little tricky to compose because
• 1:01:34
  there's not many words that begin with the sound.
• 1:01:36
  Like for instance, UL is the urspring in the umvelt of glory.
• 1:01:43
  That's a tough one, because that sound does not start words in
• 1:01:47
  modern English except for like that prefix or as it usually
• 1:01:53
  most commonly seen in in. In like a phrase like or text
• 1:01:58
  you don't see that sound. Start modern English words.
• 1:02:01
  No, no. That's a very well the the sound
• 1:02:07
  of the the the thing it makes is is is not very prevalent in
• 1:02:10
  modern English at all. But no, no, actually actually
• 1:02:13
  no. The sound is common enough in a
• 1:02:15
  common words. It's just doesn't like journey
• 1:02:17
  like journey like you could say a little like, but I'm thinking
• 1:02:20
  more like words like for instance good book, cook, woman,
• 1:02:26
  put should all these super common words they have this
• 1:02:30
  sound. It's just nothing starts with
• 1:02:32
  it. Yeah, you know, you're right.
• 1:02:33
  And you're making me, like you said before, making me really
• 1:02:35
  think about my spoken language, the the sounds that I'm making
• 1:02:41
  and and all that. Yeah.
• 1:02:42
  So that raises an interesting point, without necessarily going
• 1:02:45
  into the details of all of them for.
• 1:02:47
  Yeah. For a number of these words,
• 1:02:49
  there were not, I guess one of the principles like to name all
• 1:02:53
  of these runes acrophonically. In other words, it starts with
• 1:02:56
  the sound it stands for, and it turns out for.
• 1:03:00
  There's a couple of the rooms where this there's less to
• 1:03:03
  choose from than you might expect.
• 1:03:06
  But interesting if this is a problem they may have faced in
• 1:03:09
  the original Elder Futhark, because the room named Perthro.
• 1:03:15
  We're not still entirely sure what that may have meant, but
• 1:03:18
  what one thing's quite certain is they had very few words like
• 1:03:22
  if any that started with that sound at that time.
• 1:03:26
  And they, for all we know, peripheral may have been a a
• 1:03:29
  foreign borrowing for their language.
• 1:03:35
  Hence the mystery or unknown or whatever thing that it tends to
• 1:03:38
  be associated with. Right.
• 1:03:42
  Gotcha. Wow.
• 1:03:47
  Yeah. I mean, I think it's very.
• 1:03:50
  I mean it's it doesn't seem in any way to me like a a slight or
• 1:03:55
  or or an appropriation attempt at all.
• 1:03:58
  Like I mean just hearing you kind of talk more about it.
• 1:04:01
  It's there's a lot to it. I, I I got to admit I feel that
• 1:04:06
  you've really done your homework you've put a lot of of work and
• 1:04:11
  effort into this. This isn't just something that
• 1:04:13
  you came up with on you know shooting off the hip or coming
• 1:04:17
  off the cuff with. So yeah, I mean, I'm.
• 1:04:24
  I'm excited to learn more about it personally.
• 1:04:27
  OK. I did want to mention about,
• 1:04:29
  yes, some of before we get into more of the questions, some of
• 1:04:31
  the things that are coming up. Yes, I am planning an online
• 1:04:35
  course that will not sure of the exact launch time yet.
• 1:04:41
  Hopefully, if if hopefully early August, if not before then maybe
• 1:04:48
  maybe June. We'll see.
• 1:04:49
  But an online course that would be about you know, teaching the
• 1:04:55
  teaching the American Futharch and also dovetailed with
• 1:05:00
  alliterative poetry. And then partly because in other
• 1:05:05
  words for teaching the runic system, I think the the
• 1:05:09
  realization would be that like in a pre literate society, they
• 1:05:12
  certainly would have involved poetry in teaching the rune
• 1:05:15
  staves. Makes sense.
• 1:05:19
  Yeah. That's my view as to why.
• 1:05:20
  Like where the rune poems would have come from is that they were
• 1:05:23
  guides to the state of sounds. But at the very least certainly
• 1:05:28
  and from that insight, in other words like certainly if it's
• 1:05:32
  certainly if you're at 100 AD, it's the rune masters would not
• 1:05:36
  have failed to notice that. Or rather, the poets of the
• 1:05:39
  society would not have failed to notice that these rune names are
• 1:05:43
  the same as the alliterating sounds.
• 1:05:47
  They're so concerned with matching in their poetry that
• 1:05:52
  gets to a tangent. But I do have an article that
• 1:05:55
  will hopefully be published. I'm talking about that as the
• 1:05:59
  possible origin of the rune names, and that the rune names
• 1:06:02
  came out of alliterative poetry originally.
• 1:06:08
  Nice and and everybody interested in that can find that
• 1:06:10
  on your website, I'm sure that. Would be, yeah.
• 1:06:12
  I mean, well that that particular article I mentioned
• 1:06:14
  that has yet to be published. I mean academic publishing goes
• 1:06:17
  a bit slow. So I I won't attempt to
• 1:06:20
  speculate on when that's visible, but when that gets
• 1:06:23
  released, but. Yeah.
• 1:06:28
  Yes, getting back to the idea, so the the it'll be a course
• 1:06:30
  that in other words dovetailing I guess the use of like poetry
• 1:06:34
  and the runes to learn that as a way to reinforce the learning
• 1:06:38
  and how to write the system and go into all the insurance and
• 1:06:41
  outs about diagnosing and having that confrontation with your own
• 1:06:46
  speech to understand how it actually works.
• 1:06:49
  And that's through this, I guess, course at the end of it
• 1:06:53
  to write simple poetic stanzas and to be able to write things
• 1:06:58
  using the American Futharch. Nice.
• 1:07:02
  Because in one way they dovetail in that there are out of the 33
• 1:07:07
  runes, 23 of them are consonants that can start words, and it
• 1:07:13
  turns out these are exactly the same as the 23 initial
• 1:07:18
  Alliterators that you can have. So there's 23 possible sounds
• 1:07:22
  you can alliterate on, and there are exactly these 23 initial
• 1:07:25
  content rooms. How about that?
• 1:07:32
  Very cool, man. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be
• 1:07:33
  definitely keeping an eye on that 'cause that that that
• 1:07:36
  definitely piques my interest. And I'm sure for my audience
• 1:07:39
  too, there'll be a lot of folks that it will theirs as well.
• 1:07:43
  Just a suspicion. And and and just to briefly
• 1:07:49
  touch like longer term, I do plan more.
• 1:07:53
  There will perhaps be other courses and eventually like
• 1:07:57
  certainly more materials about like what kind of like as I said
• 1:08:02
  with like with divination you have most people, I guess they
• 1:08:05
  get their start just like they read SO and So's book, which in
• 1:08:09
  some ways is a vision of how that person sees the divinatory
• 1:08:13
  meanings of these rooms. And I'll have similar material
• 1:08:19
  at some point eventually. Yeah, I mean there's always a
• 1:08:23
  jumping off point. You know, folks need a a
• 1:08:25
  baseline I think to work off of and you know you know where
• 1:08:30
  where you stay at at at a certain how how long you stay at
• 1:08:35
  that point. Is it dependent I think on the
• 1:08:37
  person you know when you're going to finally branch off and
• 1:08:40
  discover things yourself or or obviously you know people like
• 1:08:44
  yourself who've gone something gone down this route this route
• 1:08:48
  to develop something that is by and large you know very very new
• 1:08:54
  for in in respect to yeah sure there's there's that goes from
• 1:09:00
  the past that are that are being seen throughout but it's it's
• 1:09:03
  it's for modern use it's for the modern you know language and so
• 1:09:08
  that's that's pretty innovative man.
• 1:09:09
  I think it's it's exciting. I think the thing, I think, I
• 1:09:12
  think one of the reasons why people push back on stuff like
• 1:09:14
  this too may come from a position of just fear of
• 1:09:22
  newness. You know, this is new and it
• 1:09:25
  therefore, you know, it's like that old man screaming on the
• 1:09:28
  front porch. You know, this damn television,
• 1:09:30
  this doggone radio music and this rock'n'roll, right.
• 1:09:34
  If it's new IT, it ruffles people's feathers and you know,
• 1:09:38
  tends to just make people upset because well, that ain't the old
• 1:09:40
  way and that ain't the way. It wasn't my day and I mean,
• 1:09:43
  yeah, look, I'm all for old ways stuff and and learning about it,
• 1:09:47
  but then what do we do with it? What's the point of learning
• 1:09:50
  about this old stuff if we're not finding a way to apply it in
• 1:09:54
  our time? We ain't, you know.
• 1:09:57
  You know even if you look at things like morality and ethics,
• 1:10:01
  you know, well shit back then was way different, man.
• 1:10:03
  Like you can't justify your actions based off of a of a of a
• 1:10:07
  medieval law structure or something really.
• 1:10:11
  Like you can't do that. I don't live back then anymore.
• 1:10:14
  So I'm excited to see where where all this goes and and what
• 1:10:18
  comes a bit more from from everything I've learned today.
• 1:10:21
  Tonight we'll we'll get into some questions if it's cool with
• 1:10:25
  you. I know there's you know in
• 1:10:28
  consideration everyone's time. So Scott what were, what were
• 1:10:33
  some things that you'd like to lead off with if you know you
• 1:10:36
  had some questions you were waiting to to put out to irick
• 1:10:39
  or or. Yeah.
• 1:10:40
  Thanks, Eric. I'm just kind of playing devil's
• 1:10:42
  advocate here. So.
• 1:10:45
  Well, first I'll start off with a few things that I saw online.
• 1:10:49
  You know, thanks again, Jesse, for promoting Eric's talk.
• 1:10:53
  But, you know, somebody said, Oh my gosh, Eric is using Guido
• 1:10:58
  Fellowist's system. Next thing you know, it's racist
• 1:11:02
  this, Racist that, Racist this. And you know, the whole show.
• 1:11:06
  So at first I was like, what in the world?
• 1:11:10
  Well, it occurred to me that Guidolfan List System, for those
• 1:11:13
  of you listening right now, Eric is giving me a very puzzled
• 1:11:16
  look. Yeah, I'll.
• 1:11:20
  I'll lead up to it. So if you look at Guidolfan List
• 1:11:23
  System, this tells you the disconnect, right, between what
• 1:11:26
  you're trying to do in the community.
• 1:11:28
  If you look at Guidolfan List System, it's Futhark plus an H
• 1:11:33
  and they're like, oh, you know, it's.
• 1:11:35
  Now in your case it looks like Futhark plus an H That's exact.
• 1:11:40
  That's exactly what I'm talking about the the disconnect.
• 1:11:44
  So real quickly, do you want to explain real quick why it's
• 1:11:49
  Futharch and not Futhark, and how the chapter is 1 sound?
• 1:11:55
  OK. Yes I guess this is I guess
• 1:11:57
  it'll be there was a tradition with these Futhark's they're all
• 1:12:00
  named for the first six sounds I guess the original Elder
• 1:12:03
  Futhark. So it's Futhark as in that 6
• 1:12:06
  sounds and then the younger if I let me see if I can do this
• 1:12:10
  right. If you want to be super
• 1:12:12
  technical and linguistic nerd about it, you would say younger
• 1:12:16
  Futhark with you nasalize the A on it.
• 1:12:19
  But as I we don't have nasal vowels in English so I can't do
• 1:12:23
  that properly very easily without sounding like I'm
• 1:12:27
  perhaps starting to mock the French.
• 1:12:30
  So we'll not try to well not try to do that but it's supposed to
• 1:12:33
  be a nasalized vowel. And then we say the Anglo-Saxon
• 1:12:37
  Foo Thork because the the sounds one of those sounds changes to a
• 1:12:42
  different one and so this one it is American Foo Tharch because
• 1:12:46
  that six, the 6th sound is the what we normal what we typically
• 1:12:51
  think of as spelled by ACH as in the word charcalp here in the
• 1:12:56
  name of that room. So it's those those first six
• 1:12:58
  rooms Fi, Ooze, Thorn, OSS ride charcoal and so this the sounds
• 1:13:05
  that start the first six of those.
• 1:13:09
  For sure in that that K sound, we still have it in English,
• 1:13:12
  right? We still have futhark, like you
• 1:13:15
  know, we could say that and K still remains.
• 1:13:17
  So they would say why? Why doesn't it stay K?
• 1:13:20
  And I would assume it's because of you looking at the evolution
• 1:13:24
  of K then becoming a Cha sound like as in chain and Old English
• 1:13:28
  and charcoal. Yes, that was 1 motivated by
• 1:13:32
  yeah, that canos in Old English started to turn into something
• 1:13:35
  that was pronounced like chain. It started to get to that
• 1:13:38
  chapter. Yeah, some of those changes
• 1:13:41
  doesn't seem like it's maybe all completed by the time the rune,
• 1:13:45
  the Anglo-Saxon runes get used. But then they started to have
• 1:13:48
  another rune to represent the K sound as in cup.
• 1:13:52
  So we see at the end calc being added in some places.
• 1:13:57
  But again, this seems to have the change seems to have been
• 1:14:00
  pretty late. So we don't see any outside of
• 1:14:02
  manuscripts. We don't see any full futhorc
• 1:14:06
  inscriptions using that new late K rune to make up for the fact
• 1:14:12
  that the earlier one has turned into ACH rune or the trunk or
• 1:14:17
  something like chain. OK.
• 1:14:19
  Just wanted to clear that up. Has nothing to do with Guido fun
• 1:14:22
  list system. Here's a fun one.
• 1:14:28
  Can you even read runic inscriptions?
• 1:14:34
  I had AII laughed at that one too.
• 1:14:36
  Just because I'm like, well, learn a little bit about.
• 1:14:40
  It. I mean, guys, pH, DS do nothing
• 1:14:42
  in our. Community.
• 1:14:44
  How do you get that without even doing that?
• 1:14:46
  Like it's Yeah, like you didn't just buy it out of a crackerjack
• 1:14:49
  box. Sorry.
• 1:14:50
  For everyone. Yes, I heard he can read, write
• 1:14:52
  conscriptions. Yeah.
• 1:14:54
  And since and since this kind of comment comes from Europeans,
• 1:14:58
  I'll point out too that during my during all of my graduate
• 1:15:01
  studies, I had a total of 25 ECTS credits of runology
• 1:15:07
  courses. I mean, the Americans won't know
• 1:15:09
  what ECTS means, but all these Europeans will.
• 1:15:12
  Sure, sure. So yeah, he has no trouble
• 1:15:17
  reading any conscriptions guys. So just a recap again 'cause we
• 1:15:21
  already talked about this, but I think it's really important for
• 1:15:23
  people to understand this. You know, you covered why
• 1:15:28
  different names. And you know if if people really
• 1:15:31
  look at your chart here, they'll you'll see that you use the root
• 1:15:35
  names that would have evolved into modern English.
• 1:15:38
  So Feihu, right, is modern fi, Thunraz is modern Thor Rydo
• 1:15:48
  ride, right? And then they're like, well,
• 1:15:50
  what the hell is ooze? Well, it's, you know, probably
• 1:15:53
  because that's that that that word, whether it's orox or or
• 1:15:58
  slag, doesn't exist in English anymore, right?
• 1:16:01
  And so that's why you've chosen a different name.
• 1:16:04
  Yes. OK, just.
• 1:16:06
  And then part of that is that these are meant to be names as
• 1:16:11
  much as possible that are known because like to.
• 1:16:15
  If you want to make like an artificial word for like or ox
• 1:16:19
  or I mean like or whatever. Like in many cases people might
• 1:16:23
  not know how to pronounce that. Like how would you like?
• 1:16:27
  What is the. It's not the same sound but like
• 1:16:30
  the the word or ox. How do you even pronounce that?
• 1:16:32
  Like you you just look at that and guess.
• 1:16:36
  You might say like either. You might end up saying like our
• 1:16:39
  rocks or rocks or ox. So you can have like 3 different
• 1:16:42
  pronunciations just by looking at the spelling, depending on
• 1:16:46
  how you think of English spelling, or like you know what
• 1:16:48
  mood you woke up in or something.
• 1:16:51
  So these are meant to be. A lot of these names are
• 1:16:55
  certainly in as much as possible secure foundations on how
• 1:16:59
  they're pronounced. Especially with the vowels this
• 1:17:03
  was important. So there is, there's just simply
• 1:17:08
  no possibility of pronouncing ooze with any other starting
• 1:17:12
  vowel. It will, it will become.
• 1:17:14
  It will immediately stand out as like something wrong with it, or
• 1:17:18
  a completely different word if you try to give it a different
• 1:17:20
  starting vowel. And that's a really good point
• 1:17:23
  too, when it comes to relying on the modern orthography versus
• 1:17:28
  how you're speaking right, 'cause they they might go, well,
• 1:17:31
  it's not beginning with AU, so I'm not sure if you wanted to
• 1:17:37
  touch on that or if that's as far as you wanted to go with
• 1:17:39
  that, but what more you could even say about that, really.
• 1:17:43
  Besides, our English system is screwed up.
• 1:17:46
  Yeah, I think, yeah. I would say maybe one way to
• 1:17:49
  look at English spelling isn't it's it's not correct to say
• 1:17:52
  that English has no spelling traditions.
• 1:17:54
  It's more like it has maybe a couple dozen spelling traditions
• 1:17:58
  all put together. Piglity, piglity, and in worse
• 1:18:03
  ways, and. So would you not going to get
• 1:18:08
  too technical? So only one technical question
• 1:18:10
  here. Would you recommend that if any,
• 1:18:13
  if anyone wanted to learn the system, that they first
• 1:18:17
  investigate how the IPA works, which is the International
• 1:18:20
  Phonetic Alphabet for people listening?
• 1:18:23
  Because that's what I Rick, I believe is building off of.
• 1:18:26
  That's what's allowing you to notice the sounds and forget
• 1:18:30
  about the orthography. Yes, that is OK.
• 1:18:34
  That is a starting point that's that is a good thing to mention
• 1:18:37
  because that can be very helpful.
• 1:18:41
  You know to learn the IPA notation because then if you
• 1:18:46
  learn that then you can like one thing that can help for
• 1:18:49
  diagnosing your speech is you could like look up things in
• 1:18:51
  dictionaries and then you can start to learn as a aid to like
• 1:18:55
  figuring out what you're saying. I found that helpful.
• 1:18:59
  It's like the early parts in like identifying the sounds,
• 1:19:05
  like comparing it to the dictionary.
• 1:19:06
  And then at some point you learn like where does your speech
• 1:19:09
  match what's given in the dictionary and where does it
• 1:19:11
  differ. Because you will find places
• 1:19:14
  where it differs. So to get the familiarity with
• 1:19:17
  these sounds, it's certainly like learning to read the IPA.
• 1:19:21
  And that's because then if you if you can read the IPA, you can
• 1:19:23
  like you could like, directly translate it into a translator
• 1:19:27
  into American Futharch rooms. Absolutely, Yeah I I think that
• 1:19:31
  would be a great bridge. Again though it takes a lot of
• 1:19:34
  work but if you if you learn the IPA you it will just click
• 1:19:40
  everything will just click as far as like what Eric is trying
• 1:19:43
  to do. I mean, some people, yeah, some
• 1:19:48
  people. I mean, you could also try to do
• 1:19:50
  it just directly from I guess working with the sounds then, I
• 1:19:56
  guess, yeah, if you, yeah, if you can reference the dictionary
• 1:19:58
  and start to have that as an additional support, I think it
• 1:20:01
  would go. If we don't want to
• 1:20:03
  overcomplicate it. Yeah, that actually kind of
• 1:20:06
  leads me into a question I had about that.
• 1:20:08
  Given the fact that this is sound based versus spelling the
• 1:20:15
  the the need to have like double consonants in a word in modern,
• 1:20:20
  like in the in the Latin spelling of a, like for
• 1:20:22
  instance, my name has two s, s If I were to put my name into
• 1:20:27
  the American Futh Arch, there would be no need to put 2S
• 1:20:32
  sounds. Correct.
• 1:20:35
  So I guess as as as Jesse, that would be, yeah, that's that
• 1:20:39
  would be 4 sounds in the American futh arch.
• 1:20:41
  That would be the Gem Rune and then Elk and then Sun and then
• 1:20:47
  Eagle. OK.
• 1:20:50
  And that's an interesting, that's an interesting minor
• 1:20:52
  point. You touched on about doubled
• 1:20:54
  runes for the most parts in the American Futharch, you would not
• 1:20:58
  double runes. There are a few limited
• 1:21:01
  exceptions here, and there's certain cases where if you
• 1:21:07
  actually hear the sound twice, you would write it twice, but
• 1:21:11
  these are very few in number, and these are typically across
• 1:21:15
  syllable boundaries. I'll just give one example.
• 1:21:18
  I don't want to go into too technical on it, but a
• 1:21:22
  particular adverb palely? Yeah, PALELY.
• 1:21:30
  Often times the way that's pronounced, you're going to hear
• 1:21:33
  2. That's going to be an extra long
• 1:21:35
  L You're going to hear the L twice, or.
• 1:21:38
  And also in some cases with very few cases of double consonants,
• 1:21:41
  like the word bookkeeping, you might get that K in there twice,
• 1:21:47
  and. Let's see.
• 1:21:49
  So like word boundaries in that case.
• 1:21:51
  So basically in in the case like syllable or word boundaries,
• 1:21:54
  these these are all going to cross, I think yes, 100% of
• 1:21:58
  these cases of doubled rooms that are going to go across
• 1:22:01
  syllable boundaries. Good to know.
• 1:22:07
  So there's a few of them, but. So for people that are really
• 1:22:11
  dedicated to ruins and understanding ruins, one thing
• 1:22:14
  that I would say is, you know, and I think I would agree with,
• 1:22:17
  is to really learn the sounds of your language.
• 1:22:21
  Because as I'm going to say here, the Rune masters of old
• 1:22:25
  knew the sounds of their language.
• 1:22:27
  So it was the rune, the Elder Futhark Rune Masters, for
• 1:22:31
  example, Iric was saying, you know, one letter, one sound.
• 1:22:35
  They knew that because they they were paying attention to the
• 1:22:38
  sounds that they were making with their mouth, right?
• 1:22:41
  And so to further that tradition, we see the
• 1:22:46
  Anglo-Saxon tradition where the old English system developed
• 1:22:50
  more sounds. So then what did they do exactly
• 1:22:53
  what Irik's doing. They created more runes to
• 1:22:55
  accommodate more sounds. So that is a a rune master sort
• 1:23:00
  of working like that. Of course the church could be
• 1:23:02
  involved too, like you were saying, Irik.
• 1:23:03
  But the idea is that it's still there with the one rune, one
• 1:23:08
  sound. Here's the weird thing though,
• 1:23:11
  'cause the Scandinavians are going, hmm, what about the
• 1:23:14
  younger Futhark system? That is not one one letter, one
• 1:23:18
  sound, and again, that it's but but what's what's what?
• 1:23:24
  The point is here is that they still knew their sounds,
• 1:23:28
  possibly even better than the Anglo Saxons in a way.
• 1:23:31
  And the reason why is cause of course they would use a sound
• 1:23:35
  like or to represent any, you know, round vowel, right.
• 1:23:42
  So it's off the top of my head, but it would be oh E you know it
• 1:23:49
  would represent those those rounded vowel qualities.
• 1:23:52
  Correct me if I'm wrong, Iris, but the idea is that they would
• 1:23:57
  then say, OK, all of these sounds share a class like
• 1:24:04
  either. They're all.
• 1:24:06
  Being. Pronounced in the front of my
• 1:24:08
  mouth, in the back of my mouth and I'm going to associate this
• 1:24:14
  one rune with all of those different sounds.
• 1:24:17
  So they are very aware or almost even hyper aware of the sounds
• 1:24:22
  that they are producing from their mouths.
• 1:24:24
  These run masters more of a comment and and kind of just
• 1:24:29
  saying you know really cool idea and you're in so.
• 1:24:39
  That's great. Thank you, Scott, for bringing
• 1:24:42
  up some of those questions. Those are a lot of the ones that
• 1:24:44
  I was going to throw out. I Rick's way here 'cause I mean,
• 1:24:48
  I'm sure you saw them. Well, I'm not sure, but.
• 1:24:52
  I don't know these these questions.
• 1:24:54
  I was just writing as you guys were talking.
• 1:24:56
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, 'cause there's, you know, yeah, they're
• 1:25:06
  they're just, this is they're like, well, you know, if if I
• 1:25:09
  learn this system, you know, are are they better than Tolkien's
• 1:25:15
  Cure Earth Rooms? I mentioned that kind of
• 1:25:16
  earlier. Like, are they better than that?
• 1:25:18
  But. Yeah.
• 1:25:20
  It was, it's a fantasy. Like it was a totally different,
• 1:25:21
  I think it's a totally different angle.
• 1:25:24
  You got to think too, like that was sure there was some, you
• 1:25:27
  know, it was based on, you know, a a Futhark system or a Futhoric
• 1:25:32
  system or both. But it was fantasy.
• 1:25:35
  It was, it was, you know, you know, nobody was trying to
• 1:25:41
  develop a a runic system for a spoken, an actual spoken
• 1:25:45
  language. Actually I interesting if I
• 1:25:47
  looked at like in two ways I guess there's there's kind of
• 1:25:50
  two things with what a token was doing.
• 1:25:52
  There's I guess there was what I referred like The Hobbit runes
• 1:25:55
  and this is when you see more common.
• 1:25:57
  But this is where they they basically it turns into an
• 1:26:00
  alphabet because with Latinate conventions you know you'll use
• 1:26:03
  the same room for both U&V, the same room for both I and J.
• 1:26:08
  There's one of those that's a Latinate convention. the IT
• 1:26:11
  turns it basically to an alphabet.
• 1:26:14
  Although Token did come up with an SH rune to his credit.
• 1:26:18
  But it's it's still basically largely like an alphabetic type
• 1:26:23
  script. Mm hmm.
• 1:26:25
  And then the other thing, the Kirov I just looked at earlier
• 1:26:29
  'cause I had not seen that before and this is, pardon that
• 1:26:34
  I don't have a more polite way to put it, but the the Kirov, at
• 1:26:37
  least the main one I saw. It's like if you took, you built
• 1:26:40
  a new runic systems from scratch to make it look rune like, but
• 1:26:45
  that you structure, you structure the the stave forms.
• 1:26:49
  So basically you make it like sorry, I should have to say it
• 1:26:53
  this way, a linguist's wet dream.
• 1:26:57
  Like. Scott can appreciate this.
• 1:26:59
  There'll be like a stay, a particular stay form, and it's
• 1:27:02
  the voiced, it's the voiceless sound.
• 1:27:05
  You add one twig in a spot and that makes it the voiced.
• 1:27:08
  And then you do the same thing with all these other sounds,
• 1:27:10
  like, you know the the voiced sound is just one more twig than
• 1:27:14
  the voiceless sound, and it's across the.
• 1:27:16
  Room master's doing that, right? I mean, so that just goes to
• 1:27:19
  show you. Well, no, no, This is Tolkien's
• 1:27:21
  Kirth. Oh, I'm sorry.
• 1:27:23
  I thought you were talking about voiceless voice with the younger
• 1:27:27
  system. Yeah, well, I guess that maybe
• 1:27:30
  that was inspired by the dotting, but like, yeah, the The
• 1:27:32
  Tolkien Cure thing, it just goes, yeah, that's yeah, this is
• 1:27:38
  the thing that kind of like it reeks of being designed by a
• 1:27:42
  linguist. For.
• 1:27:44
  For Yeah, for sure. I sorry.
• 1:27:46
  Yeah, I was a little sidetracked there, 'cause I as you guys were
• 1:27:49
  talking, so I apologize, 'cause I thought you were talking about
• 1:27:51
  the younger system, but as you were talking about the the
• 1:27:54
  Tolkien system, I was looking in the background.
• 1:27:58
  I'm like, I know that there's a runic inscription in Tennessee,
• 1:28:01
  and it's it's. Tolkien, East Tennessee.
• 1:28:04
  So you. Should send your viewers over
• 1:28:06
  there. It's yeah, it's over in what is
• 1:28:09
  it? Russellville Russellville, TN.
• 1:28:12
  And it says translation is the doors of Durin.
• 1:28:16
  It's actually at on the side of a cave and it says the doors of
• 1:28:19
  Durin. Lords of Maria, speak, friend
• 1:28:21
  and enter. OK.
• 1:28:22
  Is it is the? Thing The Elvish language or
• 1:28:26
  something. Well, yes, it is it Hobbit, is
• 1:28:28
  it The Hobbit Runes or the Kirf? Because those those are two
• 1:28:30
  completely different things that.
• 1:28:32
  I am not an expert on Tolkien, so I I don't know.
• 1:28:37
  If you can read it without training, it's probably the like
• 1:28:39
  The Hobbit runes, because those resemble.
• 1:28:41
  No, it it took some training, so oh.
• 1:28:44
  OK then it's it might be the other look here thumb.
• 1:28:47
  Yeah, it's not it. It doesn't really resemble
• 1:28:51
  English at all, so. Yeah, yeah, the the, the
• 1:28:58
  language of the dwarves in Tolkien's lore was was Quizdul.
• 1:29:01
  And so I don't yeah they look dramatic the runes do but yeah
• 1:29:07
  it was it was its only and then you know somebody else.
• 1:29:09
  I don't know maybe it got touched on earlier in the
• 1:29:11
  episode. I if I missed it I apologize.
• 1:29:13
  But somebody was was was bringing up in in one of my
• 1:29:17
  comment sections about the della rounor system being already in
• 1:29:23
  existence and well, we already have a thing for, you know,
• 1:29:28
  English words per SE. But this isn't even the same.
• 1:29:31
  It's. It's not.
• 1:29:32
  It isn't the same, is it? No, that's those were all
• 1:29:35
  mentioned as Scandinavia. Like Dalicarlian runes.
• 1:29:38
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are Scandinavian
• 1:29:40
  developments and like and you know, at least the guy put up
• 1:29:44
  like a picture like a Scandinavian runic alphabet.
• 1:29:47
  These are all directions the Scandinavians went with their
• 1:29:51
  runic systems and. Right.
• 1:29:55
  Yeah, they're not really necessarily.
• 1:29:56
  I mean, they're not part of the the English Heritage and the Old
• 1:30:00
  English Anglo-Saxon like Modern English Heritage, so.
• 1:30:05
  But that could be an example of what we're talking about here,
• 1:30:08
  right, where that evolved from the earlier systems to
• 1:30:12
  accommodate the language? But yeah, it evolves.
• 1:30:14
  But eventually, at least with some of those, they get out to
• 1:30:17
  the sense of like it becomes a runic alphabet where it's just
• 1:30:22
  like. Absolutely.
• 1:30:23
  Yeah, what rune stands for such and such letter?
• 1:30:27
  Yeah, in fact, wasn't it even reordered to ABC?
• 1:30:30
  Yes. OK.
• 1:30:37
  And so that was, I guess, to make another point on that.
• 1:30:39
  I mean, like I do say I get the sense a lot of commenters, it's
• 1:30:42
  like perhaps they wanted to see from me a runic alphabet.
• 1:30:45
  But for I guess the number of things I hope I touched on
• 1:30:47
  during The thing is like, for me, a runic alphabet would be
• 1:30:51
  useless. Yep, yeah, all the all the cool
• 1:30:56
  things that I wanted to deal with this all absolutely
• 1:30:59
  demanded restoring that one sound, one stay of language fit.
• 1:31:06
  Yeah, I love the fact that you. Sorry that.
• 1:31:12
  Go ahead Scott. I was saying I love that, that
• 1:31:14
  that's where the focus is, you know?
• 1:31:15
  Oh, I I was just saying that I thought it was great that he
• 1:31:18
  preserved the order as well. Meaning the like the ETS how the
• 1:31:25
  ETS are like. Yeah, Futhark rather than ABC
• 1:31:28
  because a lot of the systems later on just get, you know,
• 1:31:31
  rearranged to ABC to to copy the Latin.
• 1:31:35
  Oh yeah, and. You know that and that was 1
• 1:31:38
  deliberate thing, where of course in the in the American
• 1:31:41
  Futharch the stay of order and shapes of the 1st 24 are the
• 1:31:45
  same as the Anglo-Saxon Futhark. Yeah, I noticed that.
• 1:31:50
  Yeah, it's it's only when you get to the 4th at that the
• 1:31:53
  linguistics, I think ultimately starts to force some changes in
• 1:31:57
  the order because then it gets to the point where like there's
• 1:32:00
  a there's a a stave for ock for the Old English word for oak.
• 1:32:04
  And just like at that point reusing that is really
• 1:32:08
  untenable. It would like it would have like
• 1:32:12
  tortured this stave and its former meaning a little too much
• 1:32:16
  to go put it to any other usage. So OK, it was a balance of some
• 1:32:22
  some cases some staves were more amenable to being reused and
• 1:32:26
  forth that others were not so. Yeah.
• 1:32:31
  I was just thinking the situation right now with what
• 1:32:33
  you're doing and and the the Anglo-Saxon system, I can just
• 1:32:36
  see like the Anglo-Saxon room masters changing the system and
• 1:32:40
  expanding and then the people around him going, what are you
• 1:32:44
  doing? You cannot do that.
• 1:32:46
  That's exactly what you're doing right now.
• 1:32:49
  You know you're changing the elder system and he's like, we
• 1:32:52
  need to accommodate more sounds, so.
• 1:32:55
  Got to do something. Yeah, it is, it's, it is.
• 1:33:00
  I think like I'm the least knowledgeable of of what you
• 1:33:03
  guys are into, but I mean it makes makes sense to to me, you
• 1:33:09
  know, just hearing the the explanation of it.
• 1:33:12
  I mean it's better than what Like I remember years ago, you
• 1:33:16
  know this is apples and oranges comparison.
• 1:33:18
  But like I remember years ago there was a post, there was a
• 1:33:21
  Omana Marth did a did a thing promoting an album or something
• 1:33:25
  like that, right. And they they they put on like
• 1:33:27
  they they they put up a graphic and it was like it was literally
• 1:33:30
  like an ABC thing where they like did runic characters but
• 1:33:34
  they like they they they went and they changed like the the
• 1:33:37
  the Mono's room. They like flipped it upside down
• 1:33:39
  to make it AW like because if you'd upside if you put an M
• 1:33:44
  upside down or something it's going to look like, I don't know
• 1:33:46
  and I'm like I'm looking at this and I'm like this.
• 1:33:48
  I was new to like reading runes and and and my Heathenry at the
• 1:33:52
  time. But I'm just like I'm looking at
• 1:33:53
  what they did and like my. OK, you guys still there, The
• 1:34:01
  video's frozen from my end. I'm still here, I think.
• 1:34:05
  Jesse's Frozen I. Think Jesse's Frozen here.
• 1:34:07
  Uh oh. OK, there we go.
• 1:34:18
  Having some having some technical issues we're working
• 1:34:21
  through here guys. Anyway, the Amanamar thing, I
• 1:34:24
  don't know if it made it all the way through, but they like
• 1:34:26
  flipped their monos. Or it was like my eyes were
• 1:34:29
  twitching, just watching and like, at least at least what
• 1:34:31
  we're talking about right now, It ain't that so.
• 1:34:35
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but this was great.
• 1:34:40
  I I don't know what's going on with the technical side of
• 1:34:43
  things here guys. We're going to just work through
• 1:34:44
  it. But we've also gone a good hour
• 1:34:48
  and a half into this discussion. Eric, was there anything else
• 1:34:53
  that you were really wanting to to cover with things or or Scott
• 1:34:58
  any other questions that you maybe wanted to revisit with Ira
• 1:35:03
  here before we kind of wrap things up?
• 1:35:06
  No, I've given him a good laugh already So.
• 1:35:10
  Yeah, let's see. I think I'll probably think of
• 1:35:13
  something when I'm like, probably in the morning when I
• 1:35:16
  wake up. Right.
• 1:35:19
  Always. That 2020 hindsight you know.
• 1:35:21
  Yeah. But no.
• 1:35:23
  Gentlemen this has been great. I I feel you know we we covered
• 1:35:25
  a lot and I appreciate Eric your time to come on here and expound
• 1:35:29
  more on the work that you've put into this American Futharch and
• 1:35:34
  I'm looking forward to to seeing and hearing more of of what
• 1:35:36
  comes of it. Sure, my audience will be as
• 1:35:40
  well. And they can find you.
• 1:35:41
  You know all of your stuff on American futharch.com link for
• 1:35:46
  that's going to be in the show notes in the description area.
• 1:35:52
  Anything else you wanted to plug?
• 1:35:54
  Anything else you got going on? Let's see.
• 1:35:58
  Yeah, short plug to be. I'll be at a Heathen Weekend
• 1:36:01
  Heathen Festival within Yes, within 2 1/2 or about 2 1/2
• 1:36:06
  weeks called East Coast thing. I'll be doing a presentation
• 1:36:10
  there on the American food arch as well.
• 1:36:13
  That's the long running Heathen Festival here.
• 1:36:16
  It's now in, yeah, Maryland this year.
• 1:36:20
  Oh, I was just getting ready to say, oh, maybe I can make that.
• 1:36:24
  And then he said Maryland. Jeez, I was thinking it would be
• 1:36:28
  over in PA. Well, it's close to it's it's
• 1:36:30
  only an hour and a half drive for me.
• 1:36:32
  So it's like it's the close part of Maryland as opposed to like
• 1:36:35
  the Chesapeake Bay, which is the far part.
• 1:36:39
  Gotcha. Is there anything online about
• 1:36:42
  that? Like can can people find East
• 1:36:44
  Coast thing if they're in that area OK?
• 1:36:47
  I also did mention that on my the blog page for
• 1:36:51
  americanfoodarch.com. All right, cool.
• 1:36:54
  I'll pull that information. So for people just want a quick
• 1:36:56
  reference for it, they can find it in my podcast, show notes in
• 1:37:00
  the description because there's, I'm sure there's going to be
• 1:37:02
  people that live relatively close in the area that may want
• 1:37:05
  to come out for that. So that's good information for
• 1:37:07
  them to know. But I do want to thank you Eric,
• 1:37:12
  for for being my guest this week and also to you Scott for coming
• 1:37:16
  on here and and more value to everything as well.
• 1:37:20
  It's been great chatting with you guys.
• 1:37:22
  If you hang on for just a minute, I'll touch base with you
• 1:37:24
  both offline after I wrap things up here and Sanji's on your way.
• 1:37:29
  But yes, thank you gentlemen for being my guest this week.
• 1:37:31
  It's been a great discussion. And for all of you listeners and
• 1:37:34
  watchers that have that have caught this, check out Eric's
• 1:37:37
  site, American Food, IRIX site, sorry, American futharch.com,
• 1:37:44
  Palomontas Socials, the Skaldic Eagle.
• 1:37:47
  And if you get in the area, catch him at the East Coast
• 1:37:50
  thing in Maryland here in a few weeks or a couple of weeks.
• 1:37:55
  So thank you guys again. It's been great.
• 1:37:57
  And for everybody else listening and watching, yet the gods
• 1:38:01
  continue to notice you. May your ancestors smile upon
• 1:38:04
  you. We'll see you in the next one.