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Transcript

Overcoming the Diderot Effect · I Hate Talking

• 0:29
  I Hate Talking: Welcome to episode 97 of I Hate Talking.
• 0:32
  I Hate Talking: Hi everyone.
• 0:33
  I Hate Talking: So I had a word prepared for this episode, but I guess we need to do the word that we talked about last time.
• 0:40
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 0:42
  I Hate Talking: Do you remember what that was?
• 0:44
  I Hate Talking: No, now you're making me second guess myself.
• 0:47
  I Hate Talking: Maybe we already did this work.
• 0:49
  I Hate Talking: What we did, right?
• 0:52
  I Hate Talking: Somniferous.
• 0:54
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, we already did that.
• 0:55
  I Hate Talking: Well then, I guess I'm well prepared with a word that is not somniferous.
• 0:59
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 1:01
  I Hate Talking: No, no shame.
• 1:03
  I Hate Talking: I always forget too, but um I thought that I had forgotten that we had another word queued up.
• 1:11
  I Hate Talking: At least this time it wasn't me being forgetful.
• 1:14
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 1:15
  I Hate Talking: So we've already done sescoalion and somniferous.
• 1:18
  I Hate Talking: So we'll move on to our new word or phrase of the episode, and that is the effect.
• 1:25
  I Hate Talking: Didro, yes, I've also seen it pronounced as.
• 1:30
  I Hate Talking: But most pronunciation guides seem to say Dero, OK.
• 1:36
  I Hate Talking: And that is named after Dennis Deidre.
• 1:41
  I Hate Talking: OK, I don't know who he is, but enlighten me.
• 1:44
  I Hate Talking: Well, he's a French guy, so it seems like we always run into French words or concepts, but the effect is named after Dennis, where he noticed a psychological phenomenon when acquiring a new, often luxury item.
• 2:04
  I Hate Talking: Triggers a spiral of consumption leading to purchases of additional unnecessary items to create a sense of unity.
• 2:12
  I Hate Talking: We were selling a home, and I remember the realtor telling us, the more you fix it up, the more you're gonna notice things that need to be fixed, so it's a spiral, be careful.
• 2:23
  I Hate Talking: So is it that kind of thing like you get one good thing and then you start noticing, oh, that's really dingy or that's really broken or old, so then you need to buy that to upgrade that.
• 2:35
  I Hate Talking: And then you look around and you notice, oh, that.
• 2:39
  I Hate Talking: Doesn't match, so that needs upgrading precisely.
• 2:43
  I Hate Talking: And this was from an actual experience that this gentleman had where he was either gifted or purchased a luxurious red robe and then was comparing that to the rest of his clothing and found the rest of his clothing and the rest of his possessions in general were quote unquote shabby compared to his new robe.
• 3:07
  I Hate Talking: OK, huh.
• 3:09
  I Hate Talking: It shows the times are different, because I don't think robes are as luxurious or wanted now.
• 3:16
  I Hate Talking: I suppose not.
• 3:18
  I Hate Talking: And perhaps it goes back to if you have a wardrobe where you're gonna have multiple items and accessories that perhaps that would be a sign of the times as well, that you have to be stylish.
• 3:30
  I Hate Talking: But it probably does happen a little bit in clothing, maybe where you buy a new shirt and now you need a new pair of pants to go with it, and then you need a new pair of shoes and a new hat and a new coat.
• 3:40
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, yeah, I get that.
• 3:42
  I Hate Talking: I believe that.
• 3:43
  I Hate Talking: And then you're driving around in your car and it feels a little shabby compared to all your brand new outfits, so then you need a new car.
• 3:48
  I Hate Talking: I've, I've never made that leap, but I have made the leap of, oh, I need a, you know, new shirt to go with these pants.
• 3:57
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 3:59
  I Hate Talking: So this has been on my mind because we have purchased a new house and are working on fixing up certain elements of it or putting in our old furniture while at the same time purchasing some new furniture that needed to be replaced like a new couch or a new dining table that perhaps the rest of the furniture looks a bit shabby in comparison.
• 4:23
  I Hate Talking: OK, so, and that used to be our nice furniture, and now it's shabby.
• 4:28
  I Hate Talking: Because when we moved here, uh, there were some things we sold like the couch and um it was.
• 4:37
  I Hate Talking: Old, it was really big.
• 4:39
  I Hate Talking: It wasn't worth bringing with us and the same thing our kitchen table, so we sold those two things saying that we'd buy them new here.
• 4:47
  I Hate Talking: So as we've done that now our quote unquote nice furniture isn't so nice anymore in comparison, Is that what you're thinking?
• 4:54
  I Hate Talking: Are like preexisting furniture compared to our new furniture, you mean, right?
• 5:00
  I Hate Talking: Yes, correct, and we did sell the table that is true, but the couch was Beyond Sense of value.
• 5:07
  I Hate Talking: So that went into the dump.
• 5:09
  I Hate Talking: OK, so is that hard then when you're sitting around and looking at everything, it makes you want to go out and buy all new things?
• 5:16
  I Hate Talking: Not all new things, but perhaps things in the same visual space that are maybe now a bit out.
• 5:25
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I mean, I, I mean, I guess in a perfect world.
• 5:29
  I Hate Talking: We just buy all new.
• 5:32
  I Hate Talking: Furniture, but I don't dislike what we have and um.
• 5:39
  I Hate Talking: I was excited to get the new couch and we're getting a new table and I don't even know what the table looks like.
• 5:44
  I Hate Talking: You bought it and it's kind of a surprise.
• 5:46
  I Hate Talking: Well, ended up being a surprise, so it's gonna be delivered and I'm excited to find out, but I like surprises, so I think I'm good with not knowing what you got.
• 5:55
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 5:57
  I Hate Talking: It's also a little bit of a topic that we covered in an episode a long time ago with the, just whole variety of choices that are in front of us with all the different design elements or configurations of tables and chairs and couches that you're presented with so many choices that it's hard to find.
• 6:20
  I Hate Talking: So, not only do you like surprises, but You perhaps do not like executive decisions, so I made the executive decision to get the table that we did, and we'll see if you like it or not.
• 6:32
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, um, I mean, mostly I typically end up liking.
• 6:35
  I Hate Talking: Whatever, but, um, I agree.
• 6:39
  I Hate Talking: So I get overwhelmed.
• 6:43
  I Hate Talking: There's a reason In N-Out is like my favorite restaurant because it's like, do you want cheese on your burger?
• 6:48
  I Hate Talking: Do you want two patties?
• 6:50
  I Hate Talking: Like those are super easy choices.
• 6:52
  I Hate Talking: Um, versus going to like the Cheesecake Factory, that's Paige's lawn of.
• 6:58
  I Hate Talking: Food choices and that's overwhelming.
• 7:01
  I Hate Talking: So yeah, I start looking at things and I start critique and then I also feel like the more choices I have, I start critiquing every little element of it.
• 7:09
  I Hate Talking: And then I get unsatisfied, because I'm like, oh, that's not as good as this part, but this part's better than this.
• 7:17
  I Hate Talking: So I get, I'm just like, I'm done, like, and I definitely think I'm at the point in our move.
• 7:24
  I Hate Talking: That I have decision fatigue.
• 7:26
  I Hate Talking: I've had to the last month or two make so many decisions about our move here, how to prep and sell our house back home, and all these things that I just, I was telling our realtor.
• 7:42
  I Hate Talking: The other day for our, the house we're selling, I'm just, my decision fatigue is at a limit.
• 7:49
  I Hate Talking: I can't make another choice right now.
• 7:51
  I Hate Talking: And so she kindly was like, here, let me help you.
• 7:53
  I Hate Talking: But, uh, so yeah, I think that same thing with the table, you were like, you can't decide, so I'm gonna help you and make this decision.
• 8:01
  I Hate Talking: That's true, and that is decision fatigue, but it's exacerbated by the paradox of choice or choice overload where you just have so many different options that it becomes even more difficult to make a decision.
• 8:13
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, and OK, these are such first world problems too, like what a blessing to have so many table choices.
• 8:19
  I Hate Talking: That, you know, you get overwhelmed or and all that.
• 8:26
  I Hate Talking: So this is definitely a first world problem and a good problem to have.
• 8:30
  I Hate Talking: So I keep reminding myself of that, but also.
• 8:32
  I Hate Talking: It's hard, and something that's different too is that the house that we're in is very different than our previous home.
• 8:40
  I Hate Talking: Our previous home was very.
• 8:42
  I Hate Talking: Um, farmhouse structured, so we started to our furniture over the past decade.
• 8:52
  I Hate Talking: And all that was very farmhouse, like farmhouse chic, where this home is actually more very modern built, so I feel like some of the farmhouse stuff ends up.
• 9:04
  I Hate Talking: Where before it could be like older shabby stuff, then you put the older shabby stuff in this modern build, and it looks off.
• 9:13
  I Hate Talking: So I think that's where you're coming from too, where you're like.
• 9:16
  I Hate Talking: That older design fit that.
• 9:19
  I Hate Talking: Area where it doesn't fit here.
• 9:23
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 9:24
  I Hate Talking: And that was what I was trying to get at earlier with perhaps the new furniture and the old furniture doesn't have the same aesthetic as well as being perhaps older versus the new.
• 9:35
  I Hate Talking: So explain to me again what this gentleman said.
• 9:39
  I Hate Talking: So I believe he just coined the term of this psychological effect that he observed.
• 9:46
  I Hate Talking: Now there are certain things that Online resources have outlined to perhaps combat the effect, but I believe it seems that he simply observed it and coined the term and did not necessarily have any particular strategies for overcoming it.
• 10:06
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 10:07
  I Hate Talking: Do you have any strategies or do you know of any?
• 10:10
  I Hate Talking: So there are a number of strategies that we'll talk about.
• 10:14
  I Hate Talking: Perhaps my strategy, I guess, is the fact that Our kids and probably ourselves to an extent are We use the things that we have, so.
• 10:26
  I Hate Talking: They do wear out and tend to Get broken or need replaced, so.
• 10:34
  I Hate Talking: I guess perhaps in my own mind, I simply frame that the new couch or the new table will soon.
• 10:42
  I Hate Talking: Become part of our ecosystem of worn out things.
• 10:48
  I Hate Talking: OK, so it'll start, instead of being all plump and shiny, it'll eventually start having dents in it and stuff too.
• 10:57
  I Hate Talking: Yes, I actually knew a gentleman that upon buying a large item, uh, particularly a vehicle was his example, is that he would Specifically and intentionally dent the vehicle so that he wouldn't have to worry about new dents and dings because it already was dented.
• 11:17
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:19
  I Hate Talking: So, um, I mean, I it's Extreme, but yes, if that's what is gonna help somebody if they're just so stressed over that first dean or scratch on their car or whatever it is.
• 11:37
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I'd say, yeah, just go for it cause it's gonna happen one day.
• 11:41
  I Hate Talking: So instead of obsessing over it, accept it.
• 11:45
  I Hate Talking: Exactly.
• 11:47
  I Hate Talking: So, there are a number of other strategies which mostly come from the 365 commitment.
• 11:54
  I Hate Talking: So this appears to be a website focused on minimalist living that describes some things that you can do to overcome the Deidre effect, which, as I was reading this, it is interesting to note that The Dero effect and the gentleman's description of the new robe was actually a fictional story.
• 12:18
  I Hate Talking: OK, so he wrote this fictional story.
• 12:21
  I Hate Talking: In the first person, it looks like of himself receiving this new robe and then needed new furniture and other things that would then match this.
• 12:32
  I Hate Talking: Perceived aesthetic of the new robe and actually Fell into financial ruin because of all his purchases.
• 12:41
  I Hate Talking: So, again, according to the 365 commitment, there's a number of things that you can do.
• 12:48
  I Hate Talking: One is to implement a waiting period.
• 12:51
  I Hate Talking: So basically, if you have a purchase before you purchase anything new that you wait at least a certain amount of time.
• 13:00
  I Hate Talking: The recommendation is anywhere from 24 hours to 30 days, so that You can make sure that it is a true need rather than just a want to match the aesthetic and feel like things are unified.
• 13:17
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think it's a good idea.
• 13:20
  I Hate Talking: And then number 2 is buy for quote unquote current systems, so you should not buy something that is completely outside your existing environment, but that you should try to match what you're buying with existing systems.
• 13:39
  I Hate Talking: So that could be furniture, it could be clothing, it could be whatever the case may be, but it should In all intents and purposes already be unified with what you already have so that it is not clashing or mismatches your aesthetic or is way outside of the current things that you have in terms of its luxury level or things like that.
• 14:00
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, well, I mean, even as parents, if we use that as an example of if we got like a white.
• 14:08
  I Hate Talking: Couch that's like super pristine and expensive and thousands of dollars.
• 14:15
  I Hate Talking: And then we don't let the kids sit on it, and we don't even want to sit on it, you know, like that's not gonna be beneficial for our family at all.
• 14:24
  I Hate Talking: And I don't know, I don't see any benefit in having something super luxurious and Unusable.
• 14:32
  I Hate Talking: Exactly.
• 14:33
  I Hate Talking: And then 3rd is calculating the full cost.
• 14:36
  I Hate Talking: So, looking at what the cost of the item is, and then if you do need to or want to upgrade certain things to go along with this new purchase that you are aware of that ahead of the fact before purchasing any items at all, so that you can understand that the first purchase.
• 14:55
  I Hate Talking: Maybe one cost, but if you are already intending or pre-planning to purchase other items to go along with that, that you calculate the full cost of all those different items.
• 15:09
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 15:09
  I Hate Talking: And then number 4 is the quote unquote one in, one out rule.
• 15:15
  I Hate Talking: So if you buy a new item that you then get rid of either through donation or selling.
• 15:23
  I Hate Talking: Or some sort of.
• 15:26
  I Hate Talking: Disposition that you can get rid of an equivalent item.
• 15:31
  I Hate Talking: I love that.
• 15:33
  I Hate Talking: And then the 5th and last one is around marketing, so just avoiding marketing.
• 15:42
  I Hate Talking: So probably if you do buy a new couch, you'll probably get lots of ads for chairs and tables and things like that from whomever you purchased the thing from, if you purchased it from an online retailer or big box store or whatever the case may be.
• 15:58
  I Hate Talking: So basically, knowing that those emails are going to come and either deleting them or avoiding them.
• 16:05
  I Hate Talking: And not succumbing to the marketing tactics of these.
• 16:10
  I Hate Talking: Large retailers that know that this particular Deidre effect exists.
• 16:16
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 16:18
  I Hate Talking: So especially nowadays with social media and algorithms.
• 16:23
  I Hate Talking: Uh, the skylight calendar, we'll talk about that because I've mentioned that before.
• 16:29
  I Hate Talking: Uh, it's something that.
• 16:31
  I Hate Talking: About 6 months ago popped up on my algorithm and I'd never heard of it before, I didn't pay attention much, and I saw a couple of things like advertisements as I'm on like Instagram or whatnot.
• 16:43
  I Hate Talking: I was like, oh that's cool, and then it kept coming up more and more and more and so I asked a friend.
• 16:49
  I Hate Talking: And she just so happened to have one and so she was telling me how amazing it is and then it comes up on Facebook, on Instagram, on Google, and then, and I'm not Googling it, it's just showing up and then I've asked a couple other friends and they have them and so the first friend that told me, oh yeah, it's amazing, get one.
• 17:10
  I Hate Talking: I was like that's not what you're supposed to tell me you're supposed to say no it's a waste of money she's like no I love it so every day.
• 17:17
  I Hate Talking: Without exaggeration, at least 3 or 4 times I see an advertisement for a skylight calendar.
• 17:26
  I Hate Talking: And it just hypes me up, but I also.
• 17:30
  I Hate Talking: Love savings and I know this is not the ideal time to buy it.
• 17:37
  I Hate Talking: I was hoping at New Year's they'd have a sale for like New Year, getting into over 1, and they didn't.
• 17:42
  I Hate Talking: So I'm still waiting, but.
• 17:45
  I Hate Talking: It's insane how, yeah, social media and all that can play such an effect on all the algorithms seeing like, oh, you linger, you know, you searched for that chair, so let me show you 20 chairs now.
• 18:01
  I Hate Talking: And they'll keep showing them to you till you buy one or whatnot.
• 18:05
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 18:06
  I Hate Talking: You brought that up even this morning when we were talking.
• 18:09
  I Hate Talking: I did the skylight calendar, skylight, I didn't.
• 18:13
  I Hate Talking: He thought I was hinting at it, and when I don't need a hint, I've been very clear with him that when it goes on sale or we have it in the budget, I want one.
• 18:23
  I Hate Talking: But also, I did not hint, but you thought I did.
• 18:28
  I Hate Talking: When I said, oh, I found our paper calendar today, and you were like, oh, that's a hint.
• 18:34
  I Hate Talking: But no, it's like physical.
• 18:35
  I Hate Talking: I have a paper calendar that got packed during the move and so we don't.
• 18:41
  I Hate Talking: It usually has our monthly activities on it.
• 18:44
  I Hate Talking: And I found it.
• 18:46
  I Hate Talking: Now we can use it again.
• 18:47
  I Hate Talking: Yes, it is just interesting to me to note that you specifically referred to it as the paper calendar instead of just the calendar, which is the only calendar that we have that it's just you found the calendar, not you found our paper calendar.
• 19:03
  I Hate Talking: Our cheap paper calendar that's been buried and worthless.
• 19:09
  I Hate Talking: I should have just added all that in there.
• 19:11
  I Hate Talking: No, you could have just referred to it as the calendar, and I think I would have known what that meant.
• 19:15
  I Hate Talking: Rather than this -- passive aggressive hint at I -- was not trying to be passive aggressive at all.
• 19:25
  I Hate Talking: I just literally was like, oh, guess what?
• 19:27
  I Hate Talking: I found it because I started writing on a piece of paper or schedule because we didn't have it, like a printer piece of paper.
• 19:34
  I Hate Talking: I just wrote like Monday and all our activities and that sort of thing.
• 19:38
  I Hate Talking: So I was excited to see the calendar again because I knew we had it.
• 19:42
  I Hate Talking: But I should have kept it with me I should have taken it off the wall and kept it packed with the stuff I brought personally.
• 19:49
  I Hate Talking: I didn't, and it got packed by the movers.
• 19:52
  I Hate Talking: So I'm not complaining because I love movers.
• 19:55
  I Hate Talking: I'm thankful they did the work.
• 19:56
  I Hate Talking: Uh, it was one of the last boxes I unpacked.
• 19:59
  I Hate Talking: So I was, I, I was not being passive aggressive and maybe subconsciously.
• 20:05
  I Hate Talking: I threw that paper part in there, but I did not consciously try to do it.
• 20:11
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 20:12
  I Hate Talking: Maybe the skylight marketing has gotten to you and now you just refer to anything that is not the skylight calendar as this paper calendar that is subservient to the skylight calendar.
• 20:24
  I Hate Talking: -- So -- would my skylight calendar obsession be part of that.
• 20:28
  I Hate Talking: What's it called?
• 20:30
  I Hate Talking: I want to call it the dose, but it's not.
• 20:31
  I Hate Talking: -- What -- is Didro.
• 20:32
  I Hate Talking: Is that part of the Dero effect?
• 20:35
  I Hate Talking: I don't think so because you've wanted that for a while and it's more around utility, which is one of the other things that a variety of websites mentioned and I believe is mentioned by the 365 commitment website as well is just the Mindset shift.
• 20:52
  I Hate Talking: So you have wanted the skylight calendar for a long time and it does fulfill a more utilitarian function where you are using it for a specific purpose.
• 21:03
  I Hate Talking: It's not there just for a certain aesthetic or to look nice or to fit within a particular.
• 21:09
  I Hate Talking: Style that you are looking to emulate.
• 21:14
  I Hate Talking: OK, great.
• 21:16
  I Hate Talking: I fall into that, I guess, in cheap ways.
• 21:19
  I Hate Talking: I am definitely cheap.
• 21:21
  I Hate Talking: I love a discount.
• 21:22
  I Hate Talking: But I have a hard time spending money.
• 21:25
  I Hate Talking: On like actual money, money.
• 21:28
  I Hate Talking: If I'm at Ross or someplace like that, a consignment sale, I will buy a ton of stuff like, oh, I like that candle, I like that picture frame.
• 21:39
  I Hate Talking: I'll, you know, buy all these things like that cause it's so cheap in my brain.
• 21:43
  I Hate Talking: But spending like a chunk of money on something takes me weeks or months, like we talked about before, like I can't, I get overwhelmed by the choices or by the pricing and I just shut down and wait.
• 21:58
  I Hate Talking: But when I think about how much I've actually bought like little stuff here and there.
• 22:03
  I Hate Talking: Uh, it probably adds up to a similar price point, don't you think?
• 22:09
  I Hate Talking: Perhaps so.
• 22:11
  I Hate Talking: And then you just have more stuff.
• 22:12
  I Hate Talking: So if you're not following strictly the one in, one out rule, then you'll end up with a net increase in material items, right.
• 22:19
  I Hate Talking: But yes, that is one of the particular things around mindset is to avoid the Deidre effect you need to buy things for utility and not necessarily for a particular style where you are associating your identity with the things that you're purchasing.
• 22:38
  I Hate Talking: So, as long as you maintain an individual identity that is not defined by the things that you own, you perhaps will have Less of an impact from the Dere effect.
• 22:48
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 22:48
  I Hate Talking: And would this fall under like the same kind of category as Keeping Up with the Joneses?
• 22:53
  I Hate Talking: Yes, like the white picket fence and the Neatly cut grass in the house in the suburbs type thing that is probably a bit of the effect, but maybe a little bit more on the side of where you are being influenced by others to meet a certain standard or have certain things.
• 23:16
  I Hate Talking: OK, yeah.
• 23:17
  I Hate Talking: So we've talked about my strategy for avoiding the Der effect, any of those particular strategies that we've talked about from either my personal experience or the ones from the various online resources that resonate most with you, or do you have any additional strategies?
• 23:31
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think just long term is helpful.
• 23:36
  I Hate Talking: Because knowing that whatever we're buying, all this stuff's material stuff, and it gets Old, no matter what.
• 23:48
  I Hate Talking: So I like the idea of utility.
• 23:50
  I Hate Talking: Just going in with the mindset that tomorrow if our house caught on fire.
• 23:56
  I Hate Talking: And we lost everything, what would be important?
• 23:59
  I Hate Talking: Because all this, you know, even if the insurance helps or whatnot, you still have the depreciation and you still have all these things.
• 24:07
  I Hate Talking: What could you not live without?
• 24:11
  I Hate Talking: Or what would really make like come home.
• 24:15
  I Hate Talking: And be happy to be home, like, oh, this is good, kind of life.
• 24:20
  I Hate Talking: Versus just I'm showing off for other people, or this is what Instagram said my house should look like.
• 24:27
  I Hate Talking: I like the idea of walking in the door and just being able to sigh like.
• 24:32
  I Hate Talking: All right, I'm home.
• 24:35
  I Hate Talking: So whatever will make you feel that way, I think is different, cause I think it's different for everyone.
• 24:41
  I Hate Talking: Perhaps so.
• 24:43
  I Hate Talking: Maybe I'm focused too much on utility cause the thing that breaks that for me is if there's something that is broken, when I get home and I have to fix it.
• 24:52
  I Hate Talking: In the past, I've tried not to be crazy picky and like, say the TV wires.
• 24:59
  I Hate Talking: I know that's a utility thing.
• 25:01
  I Hate Talking: And so that's more important than aesthetic.
• 25:05
  I Hate Talking: But it's always bothered me.
• 25:07
  I Hate Talking: We're here, we were able to hide the wires, and so you just see the TV, you don't see like the cables or anything.
• 25:14
  I Hate Talking: And it just makes me sigh like, ah, I love it.
• 25:18
  I Hate Talking: It makes me so relaxed and happy.
• 25:20
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 25:22
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I don't think it really bothers me all that much.
• 25:25
  I Hate Talking: I do agree that it does look aesthetically more pleasing to have the wires hidden, but, so perhaps the topic that we can get into next time, and we didn't even talk about IKEA.
• 25:33
  I Hate Talking: Oh, I wanna throw that in there real quick.
• 25:37
  I Hate Talking: No, I think we can do that next time because you like IKEA.
• 25:41
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, and that was my first experience at IKEA, and I really did not enjoy it.
• 25:46
  I Hate Talking: So it'll be interesting, right?
• 25:49
  I Hate Talking: Or no?
• 25:51
  I Hate Talking: Well, we'll talk about it.
• 25:53
  I Hate Talking: We'll talk about it next time.
• 25:55
  I Hate Talking: The food, the furniture, the store layout in general, all the above, OK.
• 26:02
  I Hate Talking: I can't wait to hear your debrief on IKEA, not sponsored by IKEA.
• 26:08
  I Hate Talking: No, certainly not.
• 26:10
  I Hate Talking: They would not want to sponsor this, I suppose.
• 26:12
  I Hate Talking: So that is a topic that we can get to next time, but in the meantime, if you did enjoy this episode, you can like, share and subscribe, and you can always feel free to send us an email, a text, or leave a comment on whatever podcast platform that you listen on.
• 26:29
  I Hate Talking: Sounds great.
• 26:30
  I Hate Talking: And then next time, -- The IKEA -- episode.
• 26:34
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.
• 26:36
  I Hate Talking: Well, there you go.
• 26:38
  I Hate Talking: So, hopefully all our listeners are as well.
• 26:41
  I Hate Talking: So from your friends at I Hate Talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.