Latest / Movie Meltdown / 167: One More for the Kill List

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167: One More for the Kill List · Movie Meltdown

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'm like starving and overly caffeinated and I'm already freaked
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: out about talking about this.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: I'm afraid I'm just going to lose my mind.
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: Falling Program is a proud member of the Palava family
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: of podcasts. Check out all the shows over at palava.com.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: That's P-A-L-A-V-A dot com.
• 0:17
  Speaker 4: It's showtime.
• 0:17
  Speaker 5: The following feature has been rated R by the Motion
• 0:20
  Speaker 5: Picture Association of America.
• 0:22
  Speaker 6: It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised.
• 0:27
  Speaker 7: Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power.
• 0:57
  Speaker 6: To provide more cooling in the containment chambers.
• 0:59
  Speaker 8: To your citizens, we have a rebound. They call it
• 1:03
  Speaker 8: a bucket list.
• 1:05
  Speaker 9: We're supposed to make a list of all the things
• 1:07
  Speaker 9: we wanted to do in our lives before we kick
• 1:09
  Speaker 9: the bucket.
• 1:11
  Speaker 10: Cutesy.
• 1:16
  Speaker 11: Way down among Brazilians Coffee beans grow by the billions
• 1:20
  Speaker 11: So they've got to find those extra cups to fill
• 1:25
  Speaker 11: They got an awful lot of coffee in Brazil.
• 1:30
  Speaker 12: What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown. I'm Brian.
• 1:33
  Speaker 13: I'm Greg.
• 1:34
  Speaker 14: I'm Fred.
• 1:35
  Speaker 10: I'm Bo.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I'm Lucy.
• 1:36
  Speaker 15: I'm Marlena.
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: I'm Alan.
• 1:38
  Speaker 12: And it is time for another session of the Caffeinated
• 1:41
  Speaker 12: Movie Geek.
• 1:41
  Speaker 14: Cappuccino my butt.
• 1:43
  Speaker 6: I still drink coffee.
• 1:45
  Speaker 14: The last fucking thing you need is another cup of coffee.
• 1:49
  Speaker 14: It's time for the Caffeinated Movie Geek.
• 1:52
  Speaker 12: Once again, we are coming to you live via digital
• 1:54
  Speaker 12: recording from Green Room Coffee and Espresso Bar. And with that,
• 1:58
  Speaker 12: I guess we want to welcome back Alan as our
• 2:01
  Speaker 12: host for this little session here.
• 2:04
  Speaker 10: Hello.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Hello.
• 2:05
  Speaker 16: The other Alan.
• 2:06
  Speaker 12: Not me. Not that Alan.
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: Not that Alan.
• 2:08
  Speaker 12: We've decided, yeah, there's an E and an A.
• 2:10
  Speaker 14: Alan and Alan.
• 2:12
  Speaker 12: They're different. You're not the same person. We've decided that.
• 2:16
  Speaker 12: We took a vote and we decided you're entirely separate people.
• 2:20
  Speaker 16: What if we weren't?
• 2:23
  Speaker 12: Or you could be Siamese twins.
• 2:24
  Speaker 13: They don't know that.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: I saw Siamese twin girls joined at the hair.
• 2:30
  Speaker 6: That's not even trying.
• 2:32
  Speaker 14: It's like they shared a ponytail.
• 2:34
  Speaker 16: Can't you just cut it?
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: I don't know if the surgeons thought it was weird.
• 2:39
  Speaker 12: Yeah, that's trouble. Sometimes they share a bloodline.
• 2:43
  Speaker 10: At that point.
• 2:43
  Speaker 13: Joined at the toenail.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: Okay, I was going to say something. I was going
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: to let it pass, but actually my mom says we're
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: related to the Siamese twins for whom Siamese twins are named.
• 3:00
  Speaker 14: That's one of my mom's stories.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: We're related to those twins that were from Siam and conjoined.
• 3:08
  Speaker 12: These are the stories that we don't believe your mom on.
• 3:10
  Speaker 10: We know.
• 3:11
  Speaker 14: Well, yeah. I have my own suspicions.
• 3:14
  Speaker 12: That she's not even your mom.
• 3:16
  Speaker 14: Yeah.
• 3:17
  Speaker 6: How would I know?
• 3:19
  Speaker 13: Yes, Fred has two brothers named Alan.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: Well, no, one's named Alan, and one's named Alan.
• 3:28
  Speaker 12: So, Alan, one or the other, take your pick. What
• 3:32
  Speaker 12: blend of coffee are we drinking this week?
• 3:34
  Speaker 6: You're drinking the Guatemala Antigua.
• 3:37
  Speaker 17: Very nice.
• 3:37
  Speaker 12: Yum.
• 3:39
  Speaker 6: Brewed with the AeroPress, this time exclusively.
• 3:42
  Speaker 12: Fancy. We do, you know, bring in the high roll
• 3:45
  Speaker 12: of coffee.
• 3:46
  Speaker 14: Right.
• 3:47
  Speaker 12: All right, I think this one... We're already kind of
• 3:50
  Speaker 12: chomping at the bit on this movie. I think we
• 3:52
  Speaker 12: don't even want to distract ourselves with anything else up front.
• 3:55
  Speaker 12: I think we need to take a break and just
• 3:57
  Speaker 12: come back and get right into the movie because we're
• 4:00
  Speaker 12: kind of scared. lucy lucy's afraid to talk.
• 4:04
  Speaker 18: About someday it may happen that a victim must be
• 4:07
  Speaker 18: found i've got a little list i've got a little
• 4:10
  Speaker 18: list of society offenders who might well be underground and.
• 4:14
  Speaker 19: Who never would be missed who never would be missed
• 4:17
  Speaker 19: there's the white kid with the baggy clothes who's talking
• 4:20
  Speaker 19: like he's black the girl you date who doesn't get
• 4:22
  Speaker 19: the jokes in caddyshack The Asian guy who cuts in front.
• 4:26
  Speaker 18: Of every single line. And Britney Spears for accidentally showing
• 4:30
  Speaker 18: her vagina. And Bill O'Reilly's ineffective dermatologist. They'd none of
• 4:35
  Speaker 18: them be missed. They'd none of them be missed.
• 4:38
  Speaker 13: He's got them on the list. He's got them on
• 4:40
  Speaker 13: the list. And they'd none of them be missed.
• 4:43
  Speaker 10: They'd none of.
• 4:44
  Speaker 8: Them be missed.
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: Oh, Golden, pure, creamery butter. Rich, flavorful, satisfying. That's what
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: it takes for the finest buttered popcorn, and that's what
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: we use. See for yourself why there's no Showtime treat
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: to equal the crisp, delicious flavor of hot popcorn that's
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: bathed in real melted butter.
• 5:04
  Speaker 6: It's at the concession stand now.
• 5:06
  Speaker 20: There is something happening in Baton Rouge at the University Cinema,
• 5:11
  Speaker 20: the American premiere of one of the most controversial and
• 5:15
  Speaker 20: fascinating films of this decade. The Wicker Man, winner of
• 5:21
  Speaker 20: the Grand Prize for Fantasy and Science Fiction in Paris.
• 5:26
  Speaker 20: The Wicker Man, written by Anthony Schaffer, author of Sleuth,
• 5:30
  Speaker 20: Celtic Witchcraft, Druidic Research, by Peter Schaffer, author of Equus,
• 5:37
  Speaker 20: starring Christopher Lee and Britt Eklund. The Controversy, The National Enquirer,
• 5:45
  Speaker 20: April the 5th, 1977. Quote, In a desperate cover-up, rock
• 5:50
  Speaker 20: star Rod Stewart tried to buy The Wicker Man, his
• 5:54
  Speaker 20: girlfriend Britt Eklund's film. Rod wanted to keep the flick
• 5:58
  Speaker 20: from ever being seen. Well, The Wicker Man will be seen.
• 6:03
  Speaker 20: The Wicker Man has been resurrected, and the American premiere
• 6:07
  Speaker 20: is now at the University Cinema.
• 6:11
  Speaker 8: Tweet Audio, your source for high-performance, noise-reducing earbuds. Available in
• 6:16
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• 6:19
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• 6:25
  Speaker 8: come with a one-year warranty, and now there's a special
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  Speaker 8: deal for Movie Meltdown listeners. Just go to tweakedaudio.com, and
• 6:32
  Speaker 8: when you check out, enter the discount code MELTDOWN. Then
• 6:35
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• 6:54
  Speaker 21: Do you find yourself looking for a different type of
• 6:57
  Speaker 21: genre podcast? Do you find yourself on the weekends wondering
• 7:01
  Speaker 21: when you will find that one film that might change
• 7:04
  Speaker 21: your life? Well, then maybe you should check out The
• 7:07
  Speaker 21: Gentleman's Guide to Midnight Cinema with your host Big Willie
• 7:10
  Speaker 21: and the Samurai. Bringing class to the trash since 1977
• 7:16
  Speaker 21: and rocking the house.
• 7:20
  Speaker 13: You can find The Gentleman at ggtmc.com Bringing class to
• 7:34
  Speaker 13: the trash.
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: This is Courtney Gaines, and you're listening to Movie Meltdown.
• 7:59
  Speaker 22: Outlander!
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Fear your woman!
• 8:06
  Speaker 14: It's time for Sofa Theatre.
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: Knock, knock.
• 8:13
  Speaker 12: Where?
• 8:16
  Speaker 14: Local, UK.
• 8:18
  Speaker 16: How many on the list? Three, not too strange, this.
• 8:28
  Speaker 14: Is this the one you met at your sister's?
• 8:32
  Speaker 13: Boxer size.
• 8:33
  Speaker 16: Hey, man, tell you, a lot of fit women. Releases
• 8:38
  Speaker 16: sexual tension as well. Fuck's sake. I didn't know until
• 8:42
  Speaker 16: you tried, you.
• 8:44
  Speaker 15: She likes your raft, eh?
• 8:45
  Speaker 16: Wouldn't you like to fuck her now?
• 8:46
  Speaker 14: I'm too old for that shit, so are you.
• 8:49
  Speaker 16: Yeah, speak for yourself, grandad.
• 8:54
  Speaker 14: Kiev was.
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I know.
• 8:58
  Speaker 16: Listen, man, it was eight months ago. You gotta get
• 9:00
  Speaker 16: back on the horse again. Do you know what I mean?
• 9:03
  Speaker 23: It's all right.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: It's all right.
• 9:12
  Speaker 16: You'll team back the guy again?
• 9:13
  Speaker 13: Two musketeers?
• 9:39
  Speaker 24: You've made my shit work.
• 9:51
  Speaker 22: All the ones.
• 9:53
  Speaker 24: Who put me out All the ones who.
• 9:59
  Speaker 22: Feel my head went down All the squares who cut
• 10:01
  Speaker 22: me down You've made my.
• 10:27
  Speaker 6: Does everybody have their Kill List homemade?
• 10:30
  Speaker 14: I brought an old one. I've got, like, notebooks.
• 10:34
  Speaker 12: I have, you know, just an entire wall full. It's
• 10:38
  Speaker 12: like seven at my house.
• 10:39
  Speaker 13: Just, like, notebooks and notebooks.
• 10:41
  Speaker 10: Steve Buscemi style.
• 10:43
  Speaker 12: Only sometimes do I wear that outfit. Welcome back to
• 10:46
  Speaker 12: Movie Meltdown Sofa Theater. This week's Sofa Theater feature is
• 10:50
  Speaker 12: Kill List.
• 10:52
  Speaker 14: The year is 2011.
• 10:52
  Speaker 12: Director Ben Wheatley.
• 10:56
  Speaker 12: The plot, according to IMDb, nearly a year after a
• 10:59
  Speaker 12: botched job, a hitman takes a new assignment with the
• 11:02
  Speaker 12: promise of a big payoff for three killings. What starts
• 11:05
  Speaker 12: off as an easy task soon unravels, sending the killer
• 11:08
  Speaker 12: into the heart of darkness. So he was in Apocalypse Now?
• 11:13
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 11:15
  Speaker 12: Massive spoiler alert.
• 11:17
  Speaker 14: No joke.
• 11:18
  Speaker 12: We already warned you last week, but seriously, this is
• 11:21
  Speaker 12: the kind of movie you really have to see. And
• 11:25
  Speaker 12: once we've talked about it, we've screwed it all up
• 11:27
  Speaker 12: for you. So, stop now if you're listening. There's no
• 11:31
  Speaker 12: turning back. Go watch this damn movie.
• 11:33
  Speaker 10: It's like the proposal has twists and turns.
• 11:37
  Speaker 14: Ryan Reynolds, The Proposal?
• 11:38
  Speaker 15: Yeah.
• 11:41
  Speaker 12: Normally, it's where do you want to begin? With this one,
• 11:44
  Speaker 12: it's just right off the bat.
• 11:46
  Speaker 14: Fighting.
• 11:47
  Speaker 12: So, we get right into this couple's special relationship.
• 11:52
  Speaker 14: So, um.
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 11:54
  Speaker 12: It's a very strange start to this movie. It's a
• 11:57
  Speaker 12: very strange movie.
• 12:01
  Speaker 14: It's an abrupt opening.
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: And then it establishes a lot of things really quick
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: and sort of deftly, I thought. You know immediately that
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: it's his story. And you just know that by the
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: way he doesn't fight back when she's smacking him and
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: And then his kid startles him and he cuts himself.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: Whenever somebody is having to put up.
• 12:28
  Speaker 14: With stuff, it's their story.
• 12:31
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: That's the way, I don't know, narcissistic fantasy operates. If
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: somebody's putting up with stuff and not doing anything, it's
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: their story.
• 12:42
  Speaker 14: So I don't know.
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: I really liked it. I got into it. I believed
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: the people. I believed their relationship. I believed the friendship
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: of it. really enjoying it. And by the time they're
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: having dinner, I think whoever's making this movie really knows
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: about something horrible and they have a story to tell me.
• 13:05
  Speaker 14: Yeah, yeah. I'll skip to the end.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: And say it didn't really quite get where I wanted
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: it to go. And a lot of the things that
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: seemed really good and they were kind of poetic and interesting,
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: in the end I felt kind of like you do
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: watching Lost. Like, what the fuck was that polar bear about?
• 13:27
  Speaker 14: You know, it just didn't... I did really enjoy it,
• 13:32
  Speaker 14: but it.
• 13:34
  Speaker 15: I don't know.
• 13:34
  Speaker 14: I guess I'm about 70-30 on it.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: I'm sort of disappointed in the conclusion. I can see
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: they were trying to get there. And it just really
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: makes me think how hard it must be to pull
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: off a really good movie.
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: I really.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: probably don't have understand how hard that.
• 13:52
  Speaker 12: Is this is a very what the fuck kind of
• 13:56
  Speaker 12: movie and I think that's why we got it I
• 13:59
  Speaker 12: was gonna send that little thank you I guess if
• 14:02
  Speaker 12: you want to say that he says it might not
• 14:03
  Speaker 12: be a thank you but Randy is the one that
• 14:06
  Speaker 12: brought this to my attention and he had seen it
• 14:09
  Speaker 12: and kind of had that reaction of what the hell
• 14:12
  Speaker 12: did I just watch and immediately thought of us because
• 14:15
  Speaker 12: that's you know that's what the hell did I just
• 14:17
  Speaker 12: listen to so that's that's us So emailing me is like,
• 14:23
  Speaker 12: you need to watch this. You guys need to talk
• 14:25
  Speaker 12: about it because I want somebody to break it down
• 14:27
  Speaker 12: for me. It's like somebody needs to investigate what the
• 14:31
  Speaker 12: hell it was I just watched.
• 14:32
  Speaker 23: When it comes to the ambiguity, I mean, that's what
• 14:34
  Speaker 23: I kind of liked about it because really leaving the
• 14:37
  Speaker 23: audience members thinking what the fuck, I feel like that's
• 14:39
  Speaker 23: what the main protagonist felt at the end.
• 14:43
  Speaker 10: That's one thing I liked about the film in that Basically, you.
• 14:47
  Speaker 14: Were on his level.
• 14:48
  Speaker 23: You knew as much as he did about whatever the
• 14:50
  Speaker 23: hell was going on. They didn't let the audience in
• 14:53
  Speaker 23: the know at any point in time. You knew as
• 14:54
  Speaker 23: much as he did. And in the end, you knew
• 14:56
  Speaker 23: as much as he did. And for me, that's what
• 14:59
  Speaker 23: helped kind of build intrigue. Because I'm like, where is
• 15:01
  Speaker 23: this going? How is this going to pan out? I
• 15:03
  Speaker 23: wanted to know, you know, how are these pieces going
• 15:05
  Speaker 23: to come together? And even in the end, you don't
• 15:08
  Speaker 23: get a distinct resolution.
• 15:10
  Speaker 10: But I appreciate that.
• 15:11
  Speaker 23: Because all too often, I think, especially when it comes
• 15:13
  Speaker 23: to suspense and horror films... The tendency is to give
• 15:17
  Speaker 23: very clear-cut answers to what happened, but as soon as
• 15:19
  Speaker 23: you do that, then the audience can then start rationalizing
• 15:24
  Speaker 23: and trying to dismiss the logic as.
• 15:26
  Speaker 10: To where the film ended up.
• 15:27
  Speaker 23: If you leave it ambiguous, I think that's all the
• 15:29
  Speaker 23: more unsettling.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: I agree, but I think there are things that are
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: just some cheat.
• 15:35
  Speaker 13: I agree, too. Tell me. Yeah, what was some cheat?
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: Oh, like her carving the thing on the back of
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: the mirror. They're just things like they seem like they're pretentious.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's really good, and yet I
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: think it's pretentious too. I think it's not as good
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: as it wanted to be.
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: I kind of felt like they had two movies. So
• 16:04
  Speaker 6: they had this really good.
• 16:05
  Speaker 25: Character story between the friends and the guy himself, and
• 16:09
  Speaker 25: then they also had the wicker man.
• 16:11
  Speaker 6: That was happening, and they had to have that ending
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: for some reason.
• 16:17
  Speaker 25: And it felt jammed on the end, like most of
• 16:19
  Speaker 25: those kind of, like, satanic cult endings.
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: I think the ending, they tried to make it bigger
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: than it needed to be. I think they did, it
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: does make a kind of horror sense, that, you know,
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: you see them, like, the way his victims.
• 16:35
  Speaker 14: seem weirdly familiar, like they know him, or they say
• 16:38
  Speaker 14: thank you.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: I can see how they're going toward that ending, but
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: I think they tried to make it a bigger thing
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: than it really should have been.
• 16:48
  Speaker 23: Actually, if anything, I think they almost give you too
• 16:49
  Speaker 23: much information as to what's going on.
• 16:52
  Speaker 10: I think less would have been even more in this case.
• 16:54
  Speaker 13: Well, see, I think that's what I thought. And I
• 16:58
  Speaker 13: think you have to justify... being able to have such
• 17:06
  Speaker 13: a big twist at the end. You have to have
• 17:09
  Speaker 13: given you enough to chew on until that point, because
• 17:13
  Speaker 13: aside from a few little things like the priest smiling
• 17:17
  Speaker 13: and the guy saying thank you, and the back of
• 17:22
  Speaker 13: the mirror, aside from those items, it was a straightforward
• 17:28
  Speaker 13: go-out-and-kill-list movie. And At first I thought cheap, I thought,
• 17:37
  Speaker 13: to movies. But the more I thought of him as
• 17:41
  Speaker 13: less of a what-they're-doing-to-him sort of progression throughout the movie
• 17:49
  Speaker 13: and saw him more as the tool that they use
• 17:56
  Speaker 13: as their, what I'm calling it, kind of a death
• 18:00
  Speaker 13: wish system that they were going with, that he was
• 18:05
  Speaker 13: the rope, he was the noose or the gallows. He
• 18:08
  Speaker 13: was whatever they were, however they were choosing to be killed,
• 18:12
  Speaker 13: that he was just their tool that they were choosing
• 18:19
  Speaker 13: to use. And I thought they justified that fine, I suppose.
• 18:24
  Speaker 13: I think the one that bothered me was either I
• 18:27
  Speaker 13: wanted to, and I guess I want your opinion on this,
• 18:30
  Speaker 13: either the wife was choosing this line And this outcome,
• 18:37
  Speaker 13: or it was being done to her. And I think
• 18:40
  Speaker 13: they kind of left that ambiguous when she had her little,
• 18:43
  Speaker 13: I'm going to take out all these people that are
• 18:45
  Speaker 13: the home invasion point. I think that was the part
• 18:48
  Speaker 13: that threw me.
• 18:48
  Speaker 23: That was what confused me, too, because then at the end,
• 18:51
  Speaker 23: she's laughing. And I was like, wait a minute, that's
• 18:54
  Speaker 23: suddenly breaking. That was the only thing that really bothered me.
• 18:57
  Speaker 16: Was she laughing at the end? I didn't notice that.
• 19:01
  Speaker 10: I didn't know if it was sheer hysteria, though.
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: And I cheated on that point.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Actually, because that was the one point that I had
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: a problem with.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: For me, the movie, I really enjoyed it very much.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: I admired it because I thought it was incredibly ambitious.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: But I think that ultimately it sort of fell victim
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: to its own ambition.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: I think there was a lot that he wanted to
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: squeeze in, and then.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: It didn't all necessarily work. I loved it, actually, up
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: until the end, when it's not that I felt that
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: it became a different movie genre-wise, it's that tonally... I
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: thought it was very subtle and interesting all the way through.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: And then the end was just this really silly sort
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: of free-for-all. And I felt like it sort of betrayed
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: everything that I had come to like before then. And
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: so that final moment when she does laugh, I was like, wait,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense because she's not in on
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: it because she was shooting the home invaders.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: And I don't know what's happening. So I looked it up.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: And apparently the director had said in the commentary that
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: she was.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: not in on it and that the laugh was supposed
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: to be ironic. Like, oh, the irony of this final moment.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Which is the silliest damn thing.
• 19:58
  Speaker 13: Then I hate it.
• 19:59
  Speaker 25: I assume it was just hysteria.
• 20:01
  Speaker 22: Exactly.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: But no, apparently she was like, oh, of course this
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: is how it would end. And scene.
• 20:07
  Speaker 13: This is how I would have wanted to go. I
• 20:11
  Speaker 13: would have preferred the home invasion weren't there and she
• 20:13
  Speaker 13: was in on it.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: As would I.
• 20:16
  Speaker 23: See, I thought it was going to go something a
• 20:17
  Speaker 23: little bit beyond Wicker Man. Something you hadn't seen before
• 20:21
  Speaker 23: in the sense that basically... the people that hired him,
• 20:24
  Speaker 23: obviously the people that hired him were these people within
• 20:26
  Speaker 23: this cult and he was carrying out sacrifices for them.
• 20:28
  Speaker 23: I thought it was going to be a twist where
• 20:29
  Speaker 23: essentially they were witch hunters and basically they'd hired him
• 20:34
  Speaker 23: to take out this cult. And so he stumbled, when
• 20:38
  Speaker 23: he stumbles upon this ritual, basically he got ahead.
• 20:40
  Speaker 10: Of the game too fast.
• 20:42
  Speaker 23: And, um, because he, they made the comment that there
• 20:45
  Speaker 23: was like going to be a reformation or something along
• 20:48
  Speaker 23: that line when they went to.
• 20:49
  Speaker 10: Go seek out an explanation.
• 20:52
  Speaker 23: So, um, I'd almost thought that that's what was going on,
• 20:54
  Speaker 23: was he was basically, these were these puritanical sort of characters,
• 20:59
  Speaker 23: but they were above killing, or they were just capable
• 21:03
  Speaker 23: of it, and they hired him to do what their
• 21:05
  Speaker 23: ancestors had done, or something along that line.
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: I feel that shift in tone. It's like the tone
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: at the end, it just, and early on, they were
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: so good at establishing a tone and maintaining it, It
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: was really masterful without getting into that area where it
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: seemed forced and mechanical.
• 21:24
  Speaker 13: They had to hurry up. They ran out of time.
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: Well, that's the problem.
• 21:29
  Speaker 25: They really started the conspiracy movie at the end. I mean,
• 21:34
  Speaker 25: they had the little triggers and everything, but the story
• 21:36
  Speaker 25: up to that point is still that guy's story, and
• 21:39
  Speaker 25: they didn't really finish that.
• 21:41
  Speaker 14: And you know what else?
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: They didn't resolve it anyway.
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: I just now thought of this. The way they blew
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: past Gale dying. it's fucked up right there because that
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: was such a big, their relationship was such a big
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: part of.
• 21:53
  Speaker 14: The movie up to that point.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: Then he's dead, and then it just goes on, and
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: there's home invasion. It's like they're sort of like throwing
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: away a lot of what they built.
• 22:04
  Speaker 10: Yeah, because near the end it was like nighttime, daytime, nighttime.
• 22:07
  Speaker 10: It was almost instantaneous.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: And he was actually one of my characters, the gal
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: or gala.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Gail um he i really loved all the sort of workaday.
• 22:16
  Speaker 13: Elements he really.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Was amazing and just the you know i like that
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: line where he was like you know it doesn't cost
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: more to say pleased and thank you and it was
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: just like i just loved this.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Idea of this you know these working blokes i.
• 22:28
  Speaker 26: Believed them i really believed and i believed their relationship
• 22:32
  Speaker 26: and how they knew how far they could go with
• 22:34
  Speaker 26: each other they could fight and that was just so
• 22:37
  Speaker 26: credible and i i don't know i was It's disappointing
• 22:40
  Speaker 26: in the end.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: But I still really enjoy the stuff that I enjoy
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: about the movie.
• 22:45
  Speaker 13: Speaking of, the fight scene when they're rolling around in
• 22:48
  Speaker 13: the house, that felt so real. Because there's so many
• 22:51
  Speaker 13: times where two men are fighting and it's... Yeah, an
• 22:56
  Speaker 13: ideal fight, whereas this was, you're going to tackle each other,
• 22:59
  Speaker 13: you're going to claw at each other.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: It's not the face, not the face.
• 23:02
  Speaker 13: Right, yeah, you're going to be out of breath immediately.
• 23:06
  Speaker 12: They fight like children.
• 23:08
  Speaker 13: Right, right, but that's how a fight goes.
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: Remember the old westerns where they would fight and fight
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: and never get out of breath?
• 23:15
  Speaker 27: Quiet man, you fight all the way across the country.
• 23:19
  Speaker 21: Yeah.
• 23:20
  Speaker 16: Because I haven't been able to get a word in yet.
• 23:23
  Speaker 12: I've just been letting it go because I've got a
• 23:24
  Speaker 12: lot of other stuff.
• 23:26
  Speaker 16: The conclusion I kind of drew, kind of going back
• 23:28
  Speaker 16: a little bit, but I spent like several hours just
• 23:31
  Speaker 16: sitting and thinking, trying to rationalize everything. And I went
• 23:33
  Speaker 16: back and watched a couple. I wanted to watch the
• 23:35
  Speaker 16: whole thing again, but I watched a couple of scenes.
• 23:37
  Speaker 16: And I kind of determined, and this may just be wrong,
• 23:39
  Speaker 16: but I feel like it's ambiguous enough that you can
• 23:41
  Speaker 16: kind of come up with whatever explanation you want. And
• 23:44
  Speaker 16: if it fits, you're right. So I feel okay about this.
• 23:47
  Speaker 16: That I felt like they were recruiting him for the cult. which,
• 23:52
  Speaker 16: I don't know, since now I realize she's laughing at
• 23:55
  Speaker 16: the end, it kind of throws that off.
• 23:57
  Speaker 23: I can't, I don't know, I can't see them recruiting
• 24:00
  Speaker 23: him because, I mean, it's just like, well, you killed
• 24:03
  Speaker 23: your kid, so, hey, you're in.
• 24:04
  Speaker 10: What, are you going to diss us now?
• 24:05
  Speaker 16: Well, like, they crown him at the end, though, and then,
• 24:08
  Speaker 16: I mean, the hiring him to take out people, that
• 24:11
  Speaker 16: makes sense, too, and I kind of like that one better,
• 24:14
  Speaker 16: but I'm.
• 24:14
  Speaker 19: Going to still buy it.
• 24:14
  Speaker 23: See, I feel like basically at that point when they
• 24:16
  Speaker 23: crown him at the end, you're just seeing the first
• 24:18
  Speaker 23: part of something way the fuck bigger. But that's basically
• 24:21
  Speaker 23: the point to where suddenly he stumbled into this and
• 24:23
  Speaker 23: suddenly he's like, wait, what?
• 24:26
  Speaker 10: And then that's where they cut.
• 24:28
  Speaker 23: As if there's just something even huger that comes beyond that,
• 24:31
  Speaker 23: but he's still a pawn in it is almost how
• 24:33
  Speaker 23: I felt when it came to it. Because I couldn't,
• 24:36
  Speaker 23: you know, if they wanted him to join, then why
• 24:38
  Speaker 23: would they manipulate him so much was my whole thing.
• 24:41
  Speaker 16: It's a method of brainwashing.
• 24:43
  Speaker 13: I suppose.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: My sense the whole time, and from the, From the
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: time that the second character said thank you, from the
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: time that the librarian said thank you, I, from that
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: moment forward, always thought that he was always destined by
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: blood to be the Antichrist or whatever this was.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Because of that moment where she takes his bloody tissue
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: from the.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Bathroom, which was a moment that I also didn't think
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: was earned, because who has a dinner party and doesn't
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: throw away their bloody tissues after shaving accidents? But anyway,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: when she takes it and puts it in her bra
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: or whatever she does, I always felt that this was
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: his blood right and they had to do the tests,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: and they had to do all of it to get
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: to the point where he could accept it and become it.
• 25:21
  Speaker 10: I mean, he's a dude's dude.
• 25:22
  Speaker 14: He's a killer.
• 25:23
  Speaker 10: He's not going to work if the bathroom's clean, I guess.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Well, you'd think at least the Swedish wife.
• 25:27
  Speaker 10: Yeah, that's true.
• 25:28
  Speaker 16: There are some interesting dualities that I wish I could
• 25:31
  Speaker 16: give credit to myself, but I read about this. It's like,
• 25:35
  Speaker 16: for example, there are fighting with the foam swords and
• 25:37
  Speaker 16: the sun is on the mom's back because.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: When it happens i'm sorry i just told you no
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: you're fine but it's so cheesy.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: And overly and it's like slow motion and you're.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: Like what are they doing with this scene and then.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: When it happens at the end you're like that was
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: the clumsiest foreshadow like.
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: Over the top it's like super good but it's also
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: pretentious that's I don't know.
• 26:02
  Speaker 16: There's other little things, too, like when the cat brings, like,
• 26:05
  Speaker 16: kills the rabbit on the earlier gal, or Gale brings
• 26:07
  Speaker 16: the rabbits, and then the rabbit's got the intestines spilled out,
• 26:10
  Speaker 16: and the gal's got the intestines spilled out.
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: Is this that guy's first movie?
• 26:15
  Speaker 16: No, he did.
• 26:16
  Speaker 10: This is his second, yeah.
• 26:16
  Speaker 16: Down Terrace was the first one, which I want to
• 26:19
  Speaker 16: see now.
• 26:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 26:20
  Speaker 16: Because I liked this one.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, watching this made me ask that, too.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I was like, this guy's got a lot to say,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: and he seems like he's got to say it real
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: fast and all at once.
• 26:26
  Speaker 25: Yeah, like, or is it his first, like, horror, like,
• 26:29
  Speaker 25: theme movie?
• 26:29
  Speaker 16: I don't know. Would we call this a horror, though?
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: I don't think I would.
• 26:34
  Speaker 15: I would call it horror.
• 26:35
  Speaker 16: I'd call it a thriller or anything.
• 26:37
  Speaker 20: I don't know.
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: I thought it was horror from about the point where
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: they're having the dinner conversation.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: It's a domestic horror film.
• 26:47
  Speaker 14: And so what do you do?
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: And she's like, she's a hatchet man.
• 26:52
  Speaker 10: A hatchet person.
• 26:54
  Speaker 14: A hatchet person.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: And I thought, oh, and these guys are hired killers.
• 26:59
  Speaker 10: And they're, yeah.
• 27:01
  Speaker 12: I don't know.
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: I really felt that this person had something to tell,
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: and I don't feel that way in the end. At
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: the end, I feel, well, maybe they have some concept
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: of a story to tell, but I don't really think
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: they know what they're talking about.
• 27:20
  Speaker 16: I think he does, though.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I think it was supposed to be a really ham-fisted
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: political allegory about the war.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: And it wound up.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Being so obviously that I thought, I don't know, anyone
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: else can weigh in on that. But, I mean, the
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: whole deal is that there are these killers for hire
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: that he starts rationalizing.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: It because he's like, well, this guy's a pedophiliac.
• 27:40
  Speaker 22: Yes.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Pedophile.
• 27:42
  Speaker 13: That's the word.
• 27:43
  Speaker 16: Pedophile.
• 27:45
  Speaker 14: He's addicted to batteries.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: He bleeds easily.
• 27:49
  Speaker 15: Yes.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Which they do, by the way, as it turns out.
• 27:53
  Speaker 14: Well, they may. Let's see.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: But, you know, so he sort of starts developing this
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: bloodlust because he doesn't just want to kill the people
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: he has to kill.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: He wants to kill all the people that those people
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: are associated with.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: And it gets so crazy and sort of to the
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: point where he just wants to blindly kill people that
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: he sort of conceptually thinks are bad to the point
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: that he accidentally, oh.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Wow, kills innocent women and children. And it's like, oh, okay,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 28:18
  Speaker 23: See, that's where something I watched, and I almost felt like,
• 28:21
  Speaker 23: you know, that was unnecessary to even legitimize.
• 28:23
  Speaker 10: Like, the librarian is the pedophile. I was like, eh,
• 28:26
  Speaker 10: I actually would have liked it better.
• 28:27
  Speaker 23: If it was just a librarian, because that, to me,
• 28:29
  Speaker 23: is more unsettling and just bizarre. It's like you're paid
• 28:32
  Speaker 23: a shit ton of money to kill a librarian.
• 28:36
  Speaker 14: Right.
• 28:36
  Speaker 10: And that's it.
• 28:37
  Speaker 14: Right.
• 28:38
  Speaker 20: But that's different.
• 28:39
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 28:40
  Speaker 12: And it leads to more killing, which is really all
• 28:42
  Speaker 12: we want, is that extra little scene of more killing.
• 28:45
  Speaker 13: What is the significance, and it might have been totally
• 28:49
  Speaker 13: over my head because I've rocked my brain about it
• 28:51
  Speaker 13: quite a bit, of the cutting his hand? And he
• 28:57
  Speaker 13: at one point has an infection throughout his body, then
• 29:00
  Speaker 13: it's not there, and the doctor is... I think that
• 29:03
  Speaker 13: was just getting him.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: To the doctor.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: That was my sense of it. What did he say
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: when he first cut his hand? He was like, I
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: just have to be sure, or something like that.
• 29:10
  Speaker 6: It's necessary.
• 29:11
  Speaker 12: It's necessary, yeah.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know, like, the whole thing with his blood,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: and then I felt like that was just to get him.
• 29:17
  Speaker 15: To the doctor.
• 29:17
  Speaker 13: To the doctor.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Because there's always that scene in those movies where they
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: go to the doctor, and they're like a doctor and
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Rosemary's baby.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: There's always a doctor somewhere.
• 29:23
  Speaker 10: See, I didn't interpret it as that point.
• 29:26
  Speaker 15: Or Lebowski.
• 29:26
  Speaker 14: Lebowski.
• 29:28
  Speaker 13: He's very thorough.
• 29:29
  Speaker 14: He's a good man.
• 29:32
  Speaker 23: I figured that was almost going to be potential use
• 29:34
  Speaker 23: for blackmail later. It's like, well, no, you can't turn
• 29:36
  Speaker 23: on us because we've got your blood as they would
• 29:39
  Speaker 23: use for something else. But you say that and his
• 29:43
  Speaker 23: hand is really infected and then it's not.
• 29:45
  Speaker 14: It goes back to.
• 29:45
  Speaker 23: Something that I started thinking about what Alan was saying.
• 29:48
  Speaker 23: When it comes to all the foreshadowing with the rabbit
• 29:52
  Speaker 23: and the intestines and with the kid playing with the
• 29:57
  Speaker 23: sword and all that stuff, as to exactly how much
• 30:02
  Speaker 23: all this really happened. That's a possible thing to consider,
• 30:06
  Speaker 23: is that maybe a lot of this, he was just
• 30:08
  Speaker 23: starting to have a breakdown due to his job.
• 30:12
  Speaker 14: He seemed to be starting to have a breakdown.
• 30:14
  Speaker 23: They kind of hinted that, and so it's possible that
• 30:17
  Speaker 23: the fourth act is all just at that point a
• 30:20
  Speaker 23: delusion from his point of view that you're going along with.
• 30:22
  Speaker 23: That's why there it would almost sort of legitimize the
• 30:25
  Speaker 23: implausibility of it all.
• 30:27
  Speaker 13: I don't know.
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: You mean the shift it does that's kind of like adaptation?
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: The end of adaptation where suddenly we're not.
• 30:35
  Speaker 14: Dealing with a.
• 30:37
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 30:38
  Speaker 13: Does he stop taking his prescription medicine? Because at the
• 30:42
  Speaker 13: beginning you see him almost religiously taking it. You know,
• 30:46
  Speaker 13: every day they make it a point to show you
• 30:49
  Speaker 13: that he's taking it. And then he's... Many days go
• 30:51
  Speaker 13: by and they never show him speaking again.
• 30:52
  Speaker 23: Actually, I think there's like the point to where after
• 30:54
  Speaker 23: the second killing, that's when he's taking, she makes a comment, he's.
• 30:58
  Speaker 10: Like, oh, you just take a few a day or something.
• 31:00
  Speaker 10: He takes like a handful with booze or something.
• 31:02
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 31:02
  Speaker 10: If I recall.
• 31:03
  Speaker 13: I mean, is he potentially then not in, you know,
• 31:09
  Speaker 13: in reality? I mean, that would make sense too, why that,
• 31:11
  Speaker 13: you know, maybe the doctor really was I don't know. Again,
• 31:16
  Speaker 13: I'm confused the more I think about it.
• 31:17
  Speaker 23: And then he starts to suspicion that there's some sort
• 31:19
  Speaker 23: of weird cult thing, and that's why he sees it.
• 31:22
  Speaker 23: And that's, again, what goes into what I like about it,
• 31:24
  Speaker 23: is that there is so much ambiguity. It's open to
• 31:27
  Speaker 23: a lot of different interpretations.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. I just think the opening is
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: so good, you want to help it, but it doesn't
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: really achieve the poetic cohesion that... you wanted it to.
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: That's the way I experience it.
• 31:45
  Speaker 10: It also was just one of those horror films where
• 31:48
  Speaker 10: about every.
• 31:49
  Speaker 23: 20 minutes it was taken a different direction, which at
• 31:52
  Speaker 23: least kept me invested in it. It reminded me of
• 31:55
  Speaker 23: when I saw Martyrs just a couple months ago. That
• 32:00
  Speaker 23: was a French horror film where they very much did
• 32:02
  Speaker 23: that about every 20 minutes. It completely switches gears. Not
• 32:06
  Speaker 23: unlike a say from dusk till dawn except that's only
• 32:10
  Speaker 23: one switch midway or same with psycho i mean this
• 32:12
  Speaker 23: is like frequently and i feel like you got that
• 32:14
  Speaker 23: from this film too.
• 32:16
  Speaker 13: Get that in red state i did yeah just what
• 32:19
  Speaker 13: movie is this and then all of a sudden it's
• 32:22
  Speaker 13: something completely.
• 32:22
  Speaker 12: Different yeah i finally watched that and that's yeah like
• 32:25
  Speaker 12: three times it became different than what i expected going
• 32:27
  Speaker 12: in so it's yeah.
• 32:30
  Speaker 16: Red state not red dawn Sorry. I haven't seen either,
• 32:34
  Speaker 16: but I really want to see Red State.
• 32:38
  Speaker 12: Red Dawn stays on the road. It knows where it's going.
• 32:40
  Speaker 13: Red Dawn, great. I have to recommend it.
• 32:44
  Speaker 16: I've still not seen it, but I kind of want to.
• 32:46
  Speaker 16: They're remaking it.
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: I don't know if I'm... I really... I generally am
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: a proponent of naturalistic realism, but this was so good
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: in that respect. The dialogue and the way that people interrelate,
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: and the way they look, too. I mean, they're not
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: people who look like people in a movie. They look like,
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, they're not ugly people, but they look like
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: somebody you know that, you think is attractive, and then
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: you meet their family, and there's like that family resemblance,
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: and it sort of makes their looks look weird.
• 33:23
  Speaker 14: You know what I mean?
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're really interesting to look at, especially that guy, Gale.
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: I could just watch him go through his day all day.
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: There's something he's really convincing, and I think.
• 33:36
  Speaker 15: When he does the line when he's talking to their employers,
• 33:42
  Speaker 15: if they don't do this, they're going to be killed,
• 33:44
  Speaker 15: he's like, There's no wiggle room.
• 33:49
  Speaker 14: Oh, that guy said cheese.
• 33:51
  Speaker 12: Yeah, he's got that kind of attitude the whole time.
• 33:54
  Speaker 12: It makes it work. It makes it a lot more plausible.
• 33:56
  Speaker 16: I think my favorite thing of his was his apology
• 33:58
  Speaker 16: to the Christian group at the restaurant. It's like, if
• 34:01
  Speaker 16: you talk to the big guy, put in a good
• 34:03
  Speaker 16: word for us.
• 34:05
  Speaker 13: Double orange juice for everybody.
• 34:06
  Speaker 10: It's funny, too, the whole time it's going on. It's
• 34:08
  Speaker 10: like he's trying to keep a poker face, but he's
• 34:10
  Speaker 10: still sort of.
• 34:11
  Speaker 16: And he buys them all a round of orange juice.
• 34:15
  Speaker 13: That was the one thing I told my wife about this.
• 34:17
  Speaker 13: She said, well, since you had so many thoughts about it,
• 34:21
  Speaker 13: maybe I should watch it. And I said, with me,
• 34:25
  Speaker 13: more often than not, with a horror film, and I
• 34:27
  Speaker 13: described it as a horror film, I like that romanticized
• 34:31
  Speaker 13: violence of you know it's not real. You know that
• 34:36
  Speaker 13: you're just playing around with it.
• 34:38
  Speaker 6: But when you feel.
• 34:40
  Speaker 13: Everything about it, even though, like you said, the dialogue,
• 34:45
  Speaker 13: the circumstances they were in, how the killings happened, and
• 34:50
  Speaker 13: the attention to detail on some of it, it just
• 34:52
  Speaker 13: felt too... I don't like that. I don't like... Well,
• 34:56
  Speaker 13: it was like in the funny games, when they sit
• 35:03
  Speaker 13: in the room after the one... you know, murder. And they,
• 35:08
  Speaker 13: I don't know how long it was, but.
• 35:10
  Speaker 14: It felt like 10 minutes.
• 35:11
  Speaker 12: It's like 10 minutes.
• 35:11
  Speaker 14: It's a long shot.
• 35:13
  Speaker 13: It just, it, it hurts to sit there in that.
• 35:16
  Speaker 13: And that, that was one thing. I mean, I, I
• 35:18
  Speaker 13: really didn't like that movie, but that scene, I could
• 35:22
  Speaker 13: see the beauty in that scene because it was there.
• 35:26
  Speaker 13: But anyway, we're not talking about the movie, but I,
• 35:28
  Speaker 13: I said, no, don't watch this. Cause I know who
• 35:30
  Speaker 13: you are as well. You're going to have more fun,
• 35:34
  Speaker 13: you know, with, fake blood. This is far too real for.
• 35:38
  Speaker 16: It's like the scene where he's pounding on the librarian.
• 35:43
  Speaker 13: I honestly looked away.
• 35:45
  Speaker 16: I couldn't look away, but I was literally rigid with shock.
• 35:49
  Speaker 14: I didn't look away, but it's rough.
• 35:52
  Speaker 23: I think the last time I remember being taken aback
• 35:53
  Speaker 23: by that sort of violence was in The Horseman. It
• 35:56
  Speaker 23: was an Australian film a couple years ago. It's just
• 35:59
  Speaker 23: about this fellow who finds out that his daughter was
• 36:02
  Speaker 23: killed and he starts... Looking around, it turns out that
• 36:06
  Speaker 23: she was involved in this low-grade porn industry and just
• 36:10
  Speaker 23: starts picking off characters that he believes responsible for her getting.
• 36:13
  Speaker 8: Involved in her death.
• 36:15
  Speaker 23: But very, very violent in that sense, too, because they
• 36:18
  Speaker 23: just take this everyday average.
• 36:20
  Speaker 10: Man who just gets pissed off beyond belief.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Wait, which man?
• 36:24
  Speaker 10: The horseman.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Isn't that a George C.
• 36:26
  Speaker 12: Scott movie, too?
• 36:27
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I think it is.
• 36:28
  Speaker 12: Yeah, that's one Randy was telling us about. It sounds
• 36:30
  Speaker 12: exactly like that.
• 36:32
  Speaker 11: No, no, no.
• 36:33
  Speaker 12: Yeah, it might be just their version.
• 36:35
  Speaker 14: I don't know.
• 36:36
  Speaker 25: The only frame of reference I have for that quality
• 36:40
  Speaker 25: of violence depicted is Valhalla Rising.
• 36:45
  Speaker 14: That wasn't violent.
• 36:48
  Speaker 25: But the couple of scenes were that level of shocking.
• 36:54
  Speaker 16: I was expecting this hyper-violent movie, because that's kind of
• 36:56
  Speaker 16: the impression I'd got from the trailer, from random blurbs
• 36:59
  Speaker 16: that I watched, and I was like, when is it
• 37:02
  Speaker 16: going to get violent? So all of a sudden, I
• 37:04
  Speaker 16: was just kind of bored, and I feel like it
• 37:05
  Speaker 16: shouldn't have been, because it was.
• 37:07
  Speaker 12: No, no, no.
• 37:08
  Speaker 16: It was really beautifully shot.
• 37:10
  Speaker 25: Well, I feel like the way it was used in
• 37:11
  Speaker 25: this one was the level of quality that they used
• 37:14
  Speaker 25: in that for effect rather than it being the main
• 37:16
  Speaker 25: thrust of the movie.
• 37:17
  Speaker 6: But they did use a lot more of it in
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: this movie.
• 37:20
  Speaker 13: I just, from The Hall of Rising, I thought there
• 37:22
  Speaker 13: was a whole lot of creaking boat and waiting around. Yeah.
• 37:26
  Speaker 6: Is that the fourth act or whatever? It's just like forever?
• 37:29
  Speaker 13: Yeah.
• 37:30
  Speaker 16: I need to see it again now that I know
• 37:31
  Speaker 16: not to expect tons and tons of violence just because....
• 37:35
  Speaker 12: That's how I know I've watched too much of this stuff.
• 37:37
  Speaker 12: Because I watched this and I had my normal, you know,
• 37:41
  Speaker 12: what the fuck did I just watch moment that everybody
• 37:43
  Speaker 12: had with just the story. But then again, I emailed
• 37:48
  Speaker 12: Randy and I was like, yeah, I just watched it.
• 37:49
  Speaker 12: And I was talking about, you know, we're going to
• 37:51
  Speaker 12: try to put this together. And he was talking about
• 37:53
  Speaker 12: the violence.
• 37:54
  Speaker 10: And I was like, oh.
• 37:55
  Speaker 12: Yeah i guess it was fine it didn't occur to
• 37:59
  Speaker 12: me that it was excessively violent so i think i
• 38:02
  Speaker 12: have problems he told me he's worried about me and
• 38:05
  Speaker 12: i need to start watching more disney films it might
• 38:08
  Speaker 12: be true but and i since then was that was
• 38:11
  Speaker 12: my thing i was like well the effects were really
• 38:13
  Speaker 12: good like i still i was like it looked real
• 38:16
  Speaker 12: i mean that's that's something no no i I'm just
• 38:20
  Speaker 12: desensitized way too much.
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: It's not an issue for me, but I cringe if
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: something's awkward.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, that's embarrassing.
• 38:33
  Speaker 13: I'm the guy that has to change the channel during
• 38:35
  Speaker 13: the Wonder Years if it gets uncomfortable because he's made
• 38:38
  Speaker 13: a faux pas. I can't relate.
• 38:42
  Speaker 23: I was worried about that table scene at the beginning
• 38:44
  Speaker 23: because I felt just as awkward as if I'd been at.
• 38:46
  Speaker 10: The table, too.
• 38:48
  Speaker 14: It was so amazing.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 38:50
  Speaker 10: Where do I go from here?
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: It was so believable and so, I don't know, it
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: was really good.
• 38:57
  Speaker 13: That's when Gale, I fell in love with him.
• 38:59
  Speaker 10: He takes the kids upstairs.
• 39:01
  Speaker 13: The whole little.
• 39:04
  Speaker 10: Dialogue he has with them was, what's wrong though? They're
• 39:06
  Speaker 10: just drinking.
• 39:07
  Speaker 14: Don't drink. Not even water.
• 39:11
  Speaker 13: But I knew he was going to die then too.
• 39:14
  Speaker 13: You don't have someone that does horrible things but is
• 39:19
  Speaker 13: also that pure that lives. They're just going to die.
• 39:25
  Speaker 16: He says they did horrible things. I guess they did
• 39:27
  Speaker 16: because they were hitmen, but one of my favorite lines
• 39:29
  Speaker 16: was when they're walking. the fire and the main guy
• 39:31
  Speaker 16: is just like, it doesn't feel wrong. They're horrible people.
• 39:34
  Speaker 16: They deserve to suffer. Just really chilling.
• 39:36
  Speaker 12: And when I thought that, the more I thought about it,
• 39:38
  Speaker 12: I was like, does that apply to everyone, specifically them?
• 39:42
  Speaker 12: Are these two sitting there watching the fire, are they
• 39:45
  Speaker 12: the horrible people and they deserve to suffer? By the
• 39:48
  Speaker 12: end of the movie, you're like, oh, well, okay, maybe
• 39:50
  Speaker 12: you're right. Maybe they do deserve to suffer. And this
• 39:54
  Speaker 12: is it. This whole grand scheme of things is them suffering.
• 39:59
  Speaker 20: I don't know.
• 39:59
  Speaker 12: I think going back and watching that again, I was like, yeah, that,
• 40:02
  Speaker 12: that kind of has a different ring to it.
• 40:04
  Speaker 16: Now going back to the, the it's all in his
• 40:07
  Speaker 16: head theory or, or something. And the, the dualities thing
• 40:10
  Speaker 16: I noticed, and this may, I may just be making
• 40:13
  Speaker 16: this up, but sure. The cat brought him the rabbit
• 40:15
  Speaker 16: and then later Gail brought the rabbits. I feel like the,
• 40:17
  Speaker 16: what was the main guy's name?
• 40:18
  Speaker 10: I keep, Jay.
• 40:19
  Speaker 16: Jay, okay. I feel like I saw just sort of
• 40:22
  Speaker 16: this look like he just kind of noticed this coincidence.
• 40:26
  Speaker 16: Like there was a weird look on his face, which
• 40:28
  Speaker 16: may just be.
• 40:29
  Speaker 8: I don't know.
• 40:31
  Speaker 16: So maybe it's all in his head and he's just
• 40:33
  Speaker 16: kind of a weird sense of deja vu.
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there were a lot of things that were kind
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: of little points of similarity. I love the thing about
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: him eating the rabbit.
• 40:45
  Speaker 13: I thought that was going to be the cat. I thought.
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: And I love the wife saying, he's showing off.
• 40:52
  Speaker 16: See, I love that part because we have a pet rabbit,
• 40:55
  Speaker 16: and I always tell my wife, you know, if that
• 40:57
  Speaker 16: thing ever dies, I really want to cook it up
• 40:58
  Speaker 16: and eat it.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: And further away.
• 41:03
  Speaker 14: That's not cold at all.
• 41:04
  Speaker 16: But then it looks so good in the frying pan.
• 41:07
  Speaker 16: When we were just out there sitting and eating, I
• 41:08
  Speaker 16: was like, that looks so good.
• 41:10
  Speaker 10: Theoretically, I suppose it is possible. He killed the MP.
• 41:14
  Speaker 10: I mean, maybe he just.
• 41:15
  Speaker 23: Did just at that point snap and just kill his
• 41:17
  Speaker 23: partner and go back and just kill his son. I
• 41:21
  Speaker 23: suppose it is entirely possible in his mind he'd construct
• 41:25
  Speaker 23: all this and courage.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: I guess I was following the line more that it
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: just seemed like, you know, they're killers. And then they're
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: having this awkward dinner conversation with a person who, you know,
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: fires people And she's waiting for a comment. And then
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: as time goes on, he's sort of rationalizing what they do.
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: It begins with he doesn't want to work. He doesn't
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: want to do what he does.
• 41:57
  Speaker 14: And I believe the conflict.
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: With him and his wife. He doesn't want to do it.
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: He's going to do it because they're running out of money.
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: But that reluctance and then he starts rationalizing it because
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: the people are terrible people. And then he starts, you know, um,
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: going berserk, kind of overdoing it. And it just seemed
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: to me that that's necessarily where the movie is going.
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: And I, I see how it kind of makes sense
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: that he winds up, um, you know, he's trying to
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: distance himself from the people he's killing and winds up
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: killing the people close to him, which you can tell
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: he really does care about. But, um, That's the logic
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: of the movie. But then it just has this extraneous,
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: pretentious crap, which I can't really make sense of. I
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: can't resolve it. I don't think it needed that big
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: an ending. It changes what kind of movie it is.
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: And it doesn't really earn it. And it's not even
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: that it doesn't really earn it. It's better than that.
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: It earned something better than that.
• 43:05
  Speaker 6: It earned....
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: Something it didn't earn that because that's not worth you
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: know you could have had any horror movie lead up
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: to that ending and i can see how conceptually it
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: makes a kind of sense but um it just loses
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: its way getting there for me um because i i
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: get so into the world that they've created it just
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: seems like a different world in the end and you say.
• 43:31
  Speaker 23: That i bet you that it almost I wouldn't be
• 43:34
  Speaker 23: too surprised if it started out as a very simple
• 43:36
  Speaker 23: horror premise to where it was just going to be
• 43:39
  Speaker 23: in the vein of the Wicker Man. And then once
• 43:42
  Speaker 23: they became so invested in the characters, it became a
• 43:45
  Speaker 23: different breed amidst production. And then suddenly it's like, okay,
• 43:50
  Speaker 23: we've created this entire world around these Hitman characters.
• 43:52
  Speaker 10: That are far more interesting than we thought they would be.
• 43:55
  Speaker 23: And the audience invests itself in something different than what
• 43:58
  Speaker 23: the filmmaker did.
• 44:00
  Speaker 10: It's supposed to be interesting to.
• 44:01
  Speaker 12: Hear what he.
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: The guys developed that relationship, and maybe they didn't know
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: that it was going to be that good.
• 44:06
  Speaker 14: I don't know.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: So am I the only one that read it as
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: political allegory? I just felt like there were.
• 44:11
  Speaker 14: So many people that read it.
• 44:12
  Speaker 12: I see that in it.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: And then there's that, when he's telling the little boy
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: the bedtime story, and he's like, well, this is just
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: a story, and he says it takes place in Baghdadistan,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: and it's just like, it seemed like everything was.
• 44:23
  Speaker 12: There is one that I was just going to wait
• 44:25
  Speaker 12: because it's not mine. Again, I, I try and usually
• 44:29
  Speaker 12: I try not to go looking for too much because
• 44:31
  Speaker 12: I just want to kind of come up with what
• 44:32
  Speaker 12: we come up with. But specifically because Randy wanted to
• 44:35
  Speaker 12: try to figure out what the hell was going on.
• 44:37
  Speaker 12: I felt like I needed to try to find more answers. So,
• 44:40
  Speaker 12: I've got two different wrap-ups that somebody else came up with,
• 44:44
  Speaker 12: and I will credit them for that, but I was
• 44:46
  Speaker 12: just kind of letting us get all of our thoughts
• 44:48
  Speaker 12: out there, too. So are you saying there's somebody out
• 44:51
  Speaker 12: there that agrees with me? Yes, there is definitely a
• 44:53
  Speaker 12: very detailed political version that we can get to by
• 44:57
  Speaker 12: the end of this.
• 44:58
  Speaker 14: Yeah, I felt that that was there.
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: I just am not particularly looking for it.
• 45:04
  Speaker 13: I think if I had more background... as to especially
• 45:11
  Speaker 13: British politics.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: But it's kind of American politics, too, because they became
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: so intertwined with what we've been doing.
• 45:19
  Speaker 13: Yes, but I still believe I was missing some of that.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: And there's even that moment where they're like, can we
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: send other people in that look like us?
• 45:30
  Speaker 14: Which is fun.
• 45:31
  Speaker 13: That's great.
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: There are so many things I love about that moment.
• 45:36
  Speaker 10: I can see where that was there, but I don't
• 45:38
  Speaker 10: feel like it was there.
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: You know, I see that it's there, but, you know,
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: for that to, you know, it still goes to timeless,
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 45:50
  Speaker 12: I think they did that relatively well, if you want
• 45:52
  Speaker 12: to take that from it. Because it's so subtle that,
• 45:56
  Speaker 12: you know, you don't, I mean, it's definitely planted there,
• 45:59
  Speaker 12: but you can also just watch a horror movie, you know.
• 46:01
  Speaker 12: You can watch, or this Hitman movie, or whatever you
• 46:04
  Speaker 12: think it is going in, it's like you can kind
• 46:06
  Speaker 12: of watch the movie that is presented, at least the
• 46:09
  Speaker 12: first three-fourths of it, and then the end is a
• 46:12
  Speaker 12: whole different thing.
• 46:13
  Speaker 23: That is a common trend within horror, is using whatever
• 46:16
  Speaker 23: creature is on screen as an allegory for something.
• 46:18
  Speaker 13: In real life.
• 46:19
  Speaker 10: It's not too far from the church.
• 46:21
  Speaker 25: It kind of completes it with the ending, with the
• 46:23
  Speaker 25: mysterious rich people running everything, the ones left standing, and
• 46:27
  Speaker 25: their life screwed up.
• 46:30
  Speaker 13: You come with recommendations.
• 46:35
  Speaker 16: They're well-earned.
• 46:36
  Speaker 14: Good. I hear Kiev was stormy.
• 46:41
  Speaker 16: I'm in the process of rewriting it.
• 46:46
  Speaker 10: Good.
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: It's important to learn from one's mistakes.
• 46:51
  Speaker 10: I was fine.
• 46:55
  Speaker 13: One thing that bothered me is you have two assassins,
• 47:00
  Speaker 13: special forces guys that are armed. Outwitted and outmatched. I mean,
• 47:07
  Speaker 13: they have, you know, a submachine gun, pistols. There's only
• 47:12
  Speaker 13: maybe 20 of them. They have, you know, they're clotheless
• 47:16
  Speaker 13: and shoeless, most of them. I just kind of felt
• 47:20
  Speaker 13: like they're running away after he started firing and just
• 47:26
  Speaker 13: almost giving up when they were caught. That they could
• 47:29
  Speaker 13: have taken out far more of them than they did.
• 47:32
  Speaker 13: They were overwhelmed too easily, I thought.
• 47:35
  Speaker 12: There was a lot of them, though. For as close
• 47:38
  Speaker 12: as they were. I mean, he was picking them off
• 47:39
  Speaker 12: at first, but at that point, they were close. I mean, yeah,
• 47:42
  Speaker 12: that scene is actually one of the more horrific scenes.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: There's something to be said in that, too, right?
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: If we're seeing this as allegory. People said they got
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: the numbers.
• 47:51
  Speaker 10: But the one thing, too, that I was kind of
• 47:53
  Speaker 10: wondering is, was that intended?
• 47:55
  Speaker 23: Did these cult leaders want them to be pushed so
• 47:57
  Speaker 23: far that he would just open fire and kill like
• 47:59
  Speaker 23: half the cult? I mean, were they supposed to be
• 48:02
  Speaker 23: killed just the same as everybody else, or was that
• 48:04
  Speaker 23: just sort of incidental? That was one of the other
• 48:07
  Speaker 23: things I wondered about.
• 48:08
  Speaker 16: Well, they obviously didn't care about dying because they were
• 48:10
  Speaker 16: running right into the fire.
• 48:12
  Speaker 13: Yeah, there didn't seem to be any less of them
• 48:16
  Speaker 13: after they were killing. You know, almost like in a
• 48:19
  Speaker 13: nightmare sense that they kept, you know, reproducing the horde.
• 48:24
  Speaker 13: There were more of them, even though they just kept taking,
• 48:26
  Speaker 13: you know, they took out, you know, 10 or 15
• 48:29
  Speaker 13: of them by the time they got deep into the tunnel.
• 48:31
  Speaker 13: And I, I don't know.
• 48:33
  Speaker 23: I think it was about half on the ground and
• 48:34
  Speaker 23: half in the tunnels. And at least there, I mean,
• 48:37
  Speaker 23: the onslaught didn't continue.
• 48:38
  Speaker 10: I mean, he had time to go home while I
• 48:40
  Speaker 10: guess they just recruited in numbers.
• 48:42
  Speaker 23: But again, I guess if, if the ultimate attempt was
• 48:46
  Speaker 23: to get him to kill his son, I just didn't
• 48:48
  Speaker 23: get to where it was necessary to, one way or
• 48:52
  Speaker 23: the other to have so many of their cult members die.
• 48:54
  Speaker 14: I mean, I don't know.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: But if it's an honor to be killed by the Antichrist, then.
• 48:58
  Speaker 10: That's the thing. That's assuming if he's supposed to be
• 49:01
  Speaker 10: the Antichrist, too.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Or God. However you want to look at it.
• 49:05
  Speaker 13: Well, the logic of the plot makes.
• 49:07
  Speaker 10: He kills his son.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: There's some sigmata in there somewhere. There's a lot going on.
• 49:11
  Speaker 12: That's the thing.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, the filmmaker is throwing so much out there.
• 49:14
  Speaker 23: But see, it also might be prepping him for him
• 49:15
  Speaker 23: to be sacrificed. Maybe he has to carry out all
• 49:17
  Speaker 23: those sacrifices and be sacrificing it of himself. That's possible, too,
• 49:22
  Speaker 23: because they cut it off at the end where, again,
• 49:24
  Speaker 23: it leaves you at the point where it's like, okay,
• 49:27
  Speaker 23: is this at the end of the ceremony or is
• 49:29
  Speaker 23: this essentially the beginning of something much, much bigger?
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: The beginning. The crown dark prince.
• 49:33
  Speaker 10: It is, yeah.
• 49:34
  Speaker 14: I don't know the logic of the plot. Makes sense
• 49:38
  Speaker 14: to me in terms of a political allegory.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: I think the thing at the dinner that sets him
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: off is she says something about, like, when was the
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: last time he cared about taking care of his family
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: because he hasn't worked. And so I guess the irony
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: that he was going for at the end when she's laughing,
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: the irony is by going out to take care of
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: his family, he winds up killing his family.
• 50:02
  Speaker 14: And, I mean, the logic isn't the problem.
• 50:06
  Speaker 10: It's just.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: The way it gets there, stylistically, it breaks the dream.
• 50:14
  Speaker 10: Of the movie.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: I just wanted a more, totally a more subtle ending
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: that corresponded with everything that we had experienced there before.
• 50:21
  Speaker 10: Yeah, it was weird, though. Until now, I hadn't really,
• 50:23
  Speaker 10: and even now, I don't know if it was necessarily
• 50:25
  Speaker 10: a recruitment thing for him. What do you mean?
• 50:29
  Speaker 23: I don't know if I can just see that as
• 50:30
  Speaker 23: a recruitment thing. I just think I see it more
• 50:32
  Speaker 23: as just he's a cog. I mean, they even refer
• 50:34
  Speaker 23: to them as being cogs. I almost feel like he's
• 50:37
  Speaker 23: just another incidental character in this grander ritual.
• 50:41
  Speaker 10: It's like he's not the end product.
• 50:43
  Speaker 23: He's just something else that they need.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: But so why were they, like when he kills the
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: various characters, why are they so grateful?
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Why do they... recognize him by sight.
• 50:54
  Speaker 21: Why?
• 50:55
  Speaker 13: Because he's the rope. Why is Fiona so into him?
• 50:58
  Speaker 13: Like I said earlier, he's the rope. They're honoring the
• 51:01
  Speaker 13: death or the person sacrificing themselves. They're not honoring the character.
• 51:05
  Speaker 23: Yeah, basically, they're thankful that he's basically going along with
• 51:08
  Speaker 23: this grandeur scheme that they have in mind.
• 51:11
  Speaker 10: Even though he's unwitting, they're like, oh good.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: But there's clearly something special about him that's not special
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: about Gale.
• 51:18
  Speaker 16: I'd consider that maybe that's the reason he had his
• 51:20
  Speaker 16: hand cut so they had something by which, like, to
• 51:23
  Speaker 16: recognize him, the guy with the cut hand bandage will
• 51:25
  Speaker 16: be the one to, I don't know.
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like when you're babysitting twins and so you scratch
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: one of them.
• 51:34
  Speaker 12: I'm not letting you babysit, by the way.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Because they'll mess with you. They'll say, no, it was her.
• 51:39
  Speaker 16: No, the one has a mole.
• 51:41
  Speaker 23: If the cut needed to get blood, it might have
• 51:43
  Speaker 23: been to a certain extent to control him. a lot of,
• 51:47
  Speaker 23: you know, voodoo rituals or something like that, and maybe
• 51:50
  Speaker 23: part of that was to influence his hand, so to speak.
• 51:54
  Speaker 17: Yeah, literally.
• 51:56
  Speaker 16: Yeah.
• 51:57
  Speaker 12: I mean, it is funny, I hadn't thought about some
• 51:59
  Speaker 12: of the religious overtones you were talking about, Lucy, but
• 52:02
  Speaker 12: it is funny how much, for a movie that the first,
• 52:05
  Speaker 12: you know, two-thirds, three-fourths of it isn't about that, how
• 52:08
  Speaker 12: many times they sort of start planting that stuff, that
• 52:11
  Speaker 12: you do have, like, just her sitting at the dinner
• 52:14
  Speaker 12: table going, you know, I didn't really understand the whole
• 52:16
  Speaker 12: Irish thing. They're all the same religion. And he's like, no, no.
• 52:20
  Speaker 12: And again, she kind of says Christian with this tone.
• 52:23
  Speaker 13: Well, and then she won't let him pray at her
• 52:25
  Speaker 13: table either.
• 52:26
  Speaker 12: Yeah, that's the other one. They throw that out. There was,
• 52:29
  Speaker 12: I think, what else? Well, again, he goes off on
• 52:32
  Speaker 12: the people singing their religious song. That one's pretty obvious.
• 52:36
  Speaker 13: The symbol is almost a Celtic cross as well.
• 52:40
  Speaker 16: Yeah.
• 52:40
  Speaker 13: The one that she makes.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:41
  Speaker 12: And then him having the discussion with the son about
• 52:44
  Speaker 12: the cat going to heaven. And he sort of doesn't
• 52:47
  Speaker 12: believe in that, but he still has to have the
• 52:49
  Speaker 12: discussion with the kid.
• 52:51
  Speaker 13: And then he doesn't believe in cat heaven. He goes, well,
• 52:55
  Speaker 13: cat heaven.
• 52:59
  Speaker 14: All dogs go to heaven.
• 53:00
  Speaker 15: Cats.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 53:02
  Speaker 13: You know, the heaven in All Dogs Go to Heaven
• 53:04
  Speaker 13: is horrible. I wouldn't want dogs going to that heaven.
• 53:09
  Speaker 14: I never saw that movie.
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: I think we had it, but I always imagined it
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: was written by a cat.
• 53:16
  Speaker 16: You've never seen All Dogs Go to Heaven? No.
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: I imagine it was written by a cat and it
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: was All Dogs Go to Hell and then the studio
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: got hold of it and they said, we're going to
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: make some changes. The ending's not testing well.
• 53:28
  Speaker 14: With the audience. I picture a cat rider with little
• 53:32
  Speaker 14: elbow patches.
• 53:33
  Speaker 12: Here's my script.
• 53:35
  Speaker 14: And the studio's like.
• 53:38
  Speaker 12: I.
• 53:38
  Speaker 23: Just recently had to babysit for the first time, which
• 53:41
  Speaker 23: was horrifying.
• 53:42
  Speaker 14: Was it twins?
• 53:44
  Speaker 10: No, thankfully not.
• 53:45
  Speaker 23: I found that actually the easiest thing in this day
• 53:48
  Speaker 23: and age is just put stuff on the TV.
• 53:50
  Speaker 12: That's what every parent does.
• 53:51
  Speaker 10: So I put on All Dogs Go to Heaven.
• 53:53
  Speaker 23: I hadn't seen it since I was like 10. I
• 53:54
  Speaker 23: was watching and I was like, this is amazing because
• 53:57
  Speaker 23: it's film noir. And I never picked up on that
• 54:01
  Speaker 23: as a kid, but it very much is. It still
• 54:04
  Speaker 23: didn't make me like it any more than it did
• 54:06
  Speaker 23: as a kid because I was kind of viewed as
• 54:08
  Speaker 23: mediocre when I was young.
• 54:10
  Speaker 14: But still, I was like, I never noticed that before.
• 54:12
  Speaker 13: It's also Highway to Heaven for dogs.
• 54:15
  Speaker 12: Yeah. Reynolds is no Michael Landon.
• 54:20
  Speaker 13: No, not Michael Landon.
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: Then the Atheist Channel had a version of Highway to Nowhere.
• 54:26
  Speaker 14: That sounds interesting.
• 54:29
  Speaker 16: Is there an Atheist Channel?
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: I think that was actually a Johnny Carson joke.
• 54:35
  Speaker 16: I don't know.
• 54:36
  Speaker 14: It goes back that far.
• 54:37
  Speaker 12: A big TBS.
• 54:38
  Speaker 14: That's the Atheist Channel.
• 54:40
  Speaker 16: I can see an Atheist Channel being a thing.
• 54:42
  Speaker 14: Yeah.
• 54:43
  Speaker 13: I tried watching Head No Soul. There's something missing. But
• 54:49
  Speaker 13: I'll fuck.
• 54:50
  Speaker 16: They should do that. That'd be fun.
• 54:52
  Speaker 15: That'd be the game.
• 54:56
  Speaker 25: I want to see if you guys saw this, or
• 54:59
  Speaker 25: if this is just not there at all. When the
• 55:04
  Speaker 25: procession of the crazy cult people is going, when you
• 55:07
  Speaker 25: first see it, there was an Akira Kurosawa movie called Dreams,
• 55:12
  Speaker 25: and the first bit of that movie is called The
• 55:14
  Speaker 25: Fox's Wedding, and there's that whole long procession of The
• 55:17
  Speaker 25: Fox's Wedding.
• 55:18
  Speaker 6: The music in that scene was sort of a riff
• 55:22
  Speaker 6: on that, I thought.
• 55:23
  Speaker 10: And also just the way it was filmed, too.
• 55:25
  Speaker 6: Right, I was like, that's really cool, because they're hiding
• 55:27
  Speaker 6: in the forest.
• 55:28
  Speaker 25: Yeah, they're like hiding behind a tree, and the music's
• 55:30
  Speaker 25: like this really drum kind of thing.
• 55:33
  Speaker 6: But that's a scene that sticks out in my brain.
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: But I wonder how much.
• 55:37
  Speaker 10: It would be Kurosawa influence.
• 55:40
  Speaker 6: I wonder how much of that kind of stuff is
• 55:41
  Speaker 6: going on there for you guys, because.
• 55:44
  Speaker 23: I mean, I saw more, I saw less of that,
• 55:46
  Speaker 23: now that you say that, though, I can really picture it.
• 55:48
  Speaker 10: I saw more just, you know... the wicker man more
• 55:51
  Speaker 10: than anything.
• 55:52
  Speaker 12: Yeah. It struck me very heavily when we got to
• 55:54
  Speaker 12: that point.
• 55:55
  Speaker 23: And there's a lot of different elements too, of just
• 55:57
  Speaker 23: those cult films to where, you know, somebody who stumbles
• 56:02
  Speaker 23: their way into something both bigger than they realize and
• 56:05
  Speaker 23: more supernatural than they realize that you had going back,
• 56:08
  Speaker 23: you know, a few decades. And it even kind of, um,
• 56:10
  Speaker 23: to me reminded me to a certain extent of films
• 56:13
  Speaker 23: like curse of the demon or burn, which burn, um,
• 56:17
  Speaker 23: In the sense that you've got this character that leads
• 56:19
  Speaker 23: a semi-normal life, but then bumbles their way into something
• 56:24
  Speaker 23: that is far more sinister than they realize.
• 56:28
  Speaker 13: You know, the other thing that you can possibly take from,
• 56:32
  Speaker 13: especially the different takes that we all have on it,
• 56:36
  Speaker 13: in that it's maybe not as tight or neatly wrapped
• 56:39
  Speaker 13: as it maybe should be. I don't know, does everybody
• 56:41
  Speaker 13: kind of feel that way that maybe not as tight
• 56:44
  Speaker 13: as it should be.
• 56:44
  Speaker 23: Well, it's not as tight as it should be, but
• 56:46
  Speaker 23: I'll say that when you compare it to the majority
• 56:48
  Speaker 23: of the horror films that come out, it's way ahead. Right.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: I do think it was tight insofar as I felt
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: like every line of dialogue, like everything had a purpose.
• 56:58
  Speaker 14: I agree.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: Which is sort of rare. So it was very well crafted.
• 57:02
  Speaker 10: Sorry, go ahead.
• 57:03
  Speaker 13: Oh no, but I think my point in that would
• 57:06
  Speaker 13: be you are dealing with a cult and a group
• 57:11
  Speaker 13: of people, because I think the group's the cults probably
• 57:14
  Speaker 13: all bring their own desires and wants and kind of
• 57:17
  Speaker 13: even thoughts of what are we doing here to the table.
• 57:21
  Speaker 13: And it could just be that even they don't know
• 57:25
  Speaker 13: the real path of how everything's supposed to transpire. Um, with,
• 57:31
  Speaker 13: is he being recruited? Is he, you know, the antichrist?
• 57:34
  Speaker 13: Is he, you know, you may have different opinions. You know,
• 57:38
  Speaker 13: some of the people were wearing clothes. Some of the
• 57:40
  Speaker 13: people were wearing home are, hood some of the people
• 57:42
  Speaker 13: were completely naked you know what are they bringing to
• 57:44
  Speaker 13: the table in their own experience with the cult and
• 57:49
  Speaker 13: maybe that's why it's just fucked up because even they
• 57:54
  Speaker 13: don't know what path they're going down the guy that
• 57:57
  Speaker 13: cuts his hand maybe that was just for him it
• 57:59
  Speaker 13: has no other significance other than he thinks it's significant
• 58:01
  Speaker 13: that he should do it i don't know i and
• 58:05
  Speaker 13: that's probably reading way too much into it um it
• 58:08
  Speaker 13: probably makes me feel better about it it's.
• 58:10
  Speaker 25: Kind of taken a big like a big view of
• 58:13
  Speaker 25: the whole idea like none of these people really know
• 58:16
  Speaker 25: what's going on it's just sort of you know everybody's
• 58:19
  Speaker 25: doing the best they can with with the available information that's.
• 58:23
  Speaker 12: I'd say that's true with most cults with the exception
• 58:26
  Speaker 12: of the people in charge they like to keep everybody
• 58:28
  Speaker 12: not knowing what's going on so that they do what
• 58:31
  Speaker 12: they tell them to do i say.
• 58:32
  Speaker 23: That too and it kind of becomes allegorical then like
• 58:35
  Speaker 23: Lucy was saying, but just for religion in general. Because
• 58:37
  Speaker 23: then makes a comment early on, they're like, what are
• 58:39
  Speaker 23: we on the.
• 58:39
  Speaker 14: Crusades or something like that?
• 58:41
  Speaker 23: And it could almost be, you know, sort of an
• 58:45
  Speaker 23: allegory there for just the crusades themselves basically these religions
• 58:49
  Speaker 23: sending out people to kill for them who might not necessarily.
• 58:53
  Speaker 14: Believe in what they do right.
• 58:55
  Speaker 23: And in the end it just leads to the formation
• 58:57
  Speaker 23: of ceremonies that in the grand scheme of things might
• 58:59
  Speaker 23: not make a lot of sense.
• 59:01
  Speaker 13: And the same thing with government especially our own because
• 59:06
  Speaker 13: um with the military or government uh jobs it's so
• 59:10
  Speaker 13: compartmentalized intentionally compartmentalized that you don't know what the next
• 59:14
  Speaker 13: unit or what the next department is doing and why
• 59:18
  Speaker 13: that you might think that you're all on the same
• 59:21
  Speaker 13: path and you're not and it's intentionally done that way
• 59:24
  Speaker 13: so that Well, so that they can hide and cover up,
• 59:29
  Speaker 13: I think. And that's how the Crusades work. That's how
• 59:32
  Speaker 13: the wars that we've been involved in have worked. And so, therefore,
• 59:36
  Speaker 13: that only bolsters the allegory.
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think a much more satisfying vision of a
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: world like that is any by-the-numbers Coen Brothers movie in
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: which nobody understands what's going on and the presence of
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: the camera is the only thing holding.
• 59:55
  Speaker 14: It all together.
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: Everyone misunderstands everybody else. Even a movie that's not that great,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: like Burn After Reading, that's exactly what the movie is.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: And at the end, they're like, well, we learned never
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: to do that again. Whatever it was, nobody knows what happened.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 12: In the last half of their career, also, nobody wins.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 12: Everybody ends up kind of losing in a weird way.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: They've been making that since their first movie. you know
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: blood simple nobody understands they both think the other one
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: murdered somebody and another one really wins.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah but I think they're becoming increasingly nihilistic because now
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: only the good people die like.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: It seems that way.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: Like it used to be like you know Frances McDormand
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: was still being sassy and standing at the end, but now.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 12: Like, everyone dies. Now we shoot her first thing. Even
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 12: with True Grit, when.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: They remade, I think I've maybe mentioned this before, but, like,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: when they remade that, like, they add on the ending
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: from the book, which isn't, like, and by the way,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: everybody made it out alive here, but 30 years later,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: they're all going to die.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 12: They're still going to die.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 23: Yeah, that was my whole thing with, I really liked
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 23: the remake of True Grit, but I was like, if
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 23: you could have just ended it to where he was
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 23: running towards the house with the light on, I would
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 23: have been fine, but tacking on the ending to where
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 23: she's at the grave, and you had to hear that
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 23: atrocious song through the credits, I was like.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 10: That was the only thing we kept in mind.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 13: Yeah, the whole lady with the, you know, missing the...
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 13: I didn't actually, until the point where there's the snake
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 13: in the hole that does the bite, that, from then on,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 13: I was done with it.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: But actually, the original was bleaker there, because Glen Campbell
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: just dies.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 16: Yeah.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 14: Bye, Glen.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 23: Actually, I liked both the original and the remake for
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 23: completely different reasons.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 14: Yeah, they're so different.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: The original, if you watch it now, the playing style
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: is like musical theater.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 14: It's so big and broad.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: And I remembered it pretty well, so when I heard
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: they were doing a remake, I was just like, they're
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: doing what?
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: What?
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: And yet, you know, after they did it, now it
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: seems to make all kinds of sense.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 23: But, you know, I've typically put confidence in Coen Brothers
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 23: and what they're doing, you know, even if they are
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 23: making a remake.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 14: Yeah.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 10: Which I know a lot of people completely dislike Lady Killers.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 10: I found Lady Killers fun.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: It's by the numbers Coen Brothers, and that's a good movie.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 23: Because actually, most of the problems that the remake has,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 23: I feel like the original has too, and I like
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 23: both of them. I own both of them, but it's like,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 23: People complain, well, when it came to the ending, the
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 23: ending seemed a little rushed, a little sloppy, and also
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 23: it lost its pacing. I feel like the original does, too.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: See, that's what I didn't understand about remaking that film.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: I felt like that was almost them trying to alienate
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: every moviegoer.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 13: In the world.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: We're going to take this really sort of hokey, simplistic
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: film that only appeals.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: To old ladies, but then.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Put so much insanely foul language in it that old
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: ladies can't watch it.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: And then see who's left standing.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 12: This is a good strategy.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: It could be that because when I was a graduate
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: student in art, I had to hang the faculty show.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: And during the day, all the faculty walked through the
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: gallery to the office and And every one of them
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: would take me inside and say something like, well, I
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: think my stuff, because it's so colorful, should be right
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: here in the center of the entryway.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 10: And I'd go, oh, okay.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: And I just had to move stuff around all day
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: to alienate everybody equally until they went home, and then
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: I hung the show in 20 minutes. So maybe they
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: were finally trying to just quell all the factions, alienate everybody,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: and get to a place.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 14: Where they could sort of work in peace again.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: I think even just a regular standard Coen Brothers movie
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: is a really good movie, but some of them I
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: think they really stretch themselves on.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 14: I don't expect Tarantino to surprise me. After Pulp Fiction,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 14: I like him, but I don't expect.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: But the Coen Brothers, who knows what they're going to do.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: You know, they have their stuff they're good at, and
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: they do, and they're still going to do that, but
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: who knows what else they might come up with. I
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: think they're still very volatile creatively. Yeah, I like Lady Killers.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: I like pretty much all their movies all right.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 10: I even like a lot of people didn't like A
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 10: Serious Man.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 14: I liked A Serious Man.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 23: I felt it was up there with Barton Fink in
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 23: the sense that it's very much, again, like you were saying,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 23: one of the main things that kind of ties together
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 23: is the camera is there, and it's just up to
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 23: you to figure out what works.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: But in comparing their movies to this movie, this movie,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: it drew me into a world. It drew me into
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: a world, but it wasn't like a.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 14: Complete vision of a world in the end.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: In the end, it felt fractured and And I can
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: see that maybe they're trying to say something, and that's okay.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 13: Are we about to kill this?
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: But I thought going in that it was like a
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: picture of a world. And it's fine for a director
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: to have something they want to say that's lovely, you know,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: and they can say it all day. But it wasn't.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: for me, like a coherent picture of a world in
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: the way that the Coen brothers make that kind.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 23: Of internal sense. The Coen brothers, when you see people
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 23: walking through with torches like an old brother, it's like, oh, yeah.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 14: I thought of that one, too, yeah.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 13: You know, I think one thing that's... The two characters
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 13: are so well-rounded. Their relationship is so well-rounded that that's
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 13: the part that you.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 13: Attach yourself to and everything else just seems like pawns
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 13: you know.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 14: Um doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 25: Comparatively that's really what i ended up seeing the biggest
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 25: thing at the end in credits was you know written
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 25: by and then additional lines by the cast and i
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 25: was like yeah these guys wrote that relationship in and
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 25: that's what changed the.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 23: Movie from Yeah, and going back to the whole creating
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 23: the world thing, that I think is what did it is,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 23: you know, we've already talked about how these characters seem
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 23: so real and, you know, the relationship between the hitman,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 23: the wife and the husband, all that seemed so real.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 10: And then basically we can identify, okay, this is real world.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 23: And it's like, we'll throw in a cult and just
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 23: in this day and age, we would have trouble, you know,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 23: expecting something like that to exist. And when it goes
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 23: to films like The Wicker Man or Rosemary's Baby, the
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 23: focus of that movie was convincing you that, no, we
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 23: are in the real world, but this can still exist,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 23: whereas this film, it didn't have that setup. So I
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 23: could see where that would cause that off-putting feel that
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 23: you get.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 10: When suddenly it does that twist at the end. It
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 10: just feels implausible.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and again, when Gale dies, I just expect there
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: to be something more about that, because so much of
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: the movie has been Especially since, you know, there was
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 4: no threat anymore.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 23: It's not like he had people after him to where
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 23: he needed to just leave the body. It's like, no, he's.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 10: Safe at that point.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 14: It felt weird.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: It reminds me of in American Beauty, the scene that
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 4: I totally don't believe when, what's her name? Thora Birch
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: comes in with her pothead boyfriend and her.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 14: Dad's been shot. She doesn't say a whole word in
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 14: the scene.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: Just the hipster boyfriend just thinks it's really beautiful give
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 4: me a minute while i think your dead dad is
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: really beautiful and she's standing there in the background.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: What the fuck is this what are you trying to
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: tell me what.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 16: Bugs me but i love american beauty but what always
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 16: bugs me about that is that there's there's no exit
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 16: wound Yeah, because clearly he gets shot in the back,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 16: then we see the blood splatter on the wall, but
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 16: yet there's no exit wound anywhere.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 12: Well, he needs his close-up, you know.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 10: Maybe it was that this came out of his mouth,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 10: and his mouth was.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 14: Open, and when he fell, his mouth was open. It
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 14: was his left nostril.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 12: That's how it goes.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 6: Clean exit wound through the.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 4: It was Banksy's exit through the nostril.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 12: Well, this one, I have to say, I had that
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 12: same reaction, and I think And this is why I've
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 12: been kind of like letting all the initial reactions go,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 12: because I think I had a lot of the same feelings.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 12: And then I went back and watched it a second time.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 12: Cause I had that same, like that first time I
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 12: was like, where the hell did that ending come from?
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 12: What the hell did I just see? And then it
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 12: was one of those that just didn't sit right. Like I, I,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 12: It took a day or two for me to just
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 12: kind of go, okay, what do we even do? Again,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 12: that's why I was like, are we going to talk
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 12: about this? Because I don't even know what I've seen
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 12: at this point. It's still processing for a long time.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 12: And then I went back and rewatched it, and it's
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 12: kind of a different movie that second time. As much
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 12: as I felt like it came out of nowhere, that ending,
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 12: it doesn't necessarily feel that way the next time through.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 10: I kind of had that feeling the more I thought
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 10: about it. This probably doesn't seem so far-fetched if you
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 10: watch it again. I liked it enough that I want
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 10: to see it again.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 12: It really is one of those.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 12: It needs repeat viewings. And this is almost what it's
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 12: made for. It almost is made to be discussed like
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 12: he specifically left all these open-ended things or these loose
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 12: threads that are specifically left there for us to sit
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 12: around and go, no, wait, but what about? And it's
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 12: almost like the movie geek dream movie that you just
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 12: sit there and discuss what it meant or why it
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 12: was like that. And I don't know. I think it definitely...
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 12: has that aspect to it, but it also feels a
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 12: lot more like a through line that second time through.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: See, I always kind of expected the ending, though.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: Like I always expected, like I said, I sort of
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: felt like having seen enough of these kind of movies
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: that that's where it was going, that he needed to
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: accept his fate and realize who he was and realize
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: that there was going to be the moment at the end.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: I kept thinking, and I kept trying to remember what
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: this movie was because I had just sort of vague
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: recollections of seeing it as a childhood, but there was
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: this movie with Shelly Winters and Abe Vigoda in it,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: and stop me if this starts to sound even reasonably familiar.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 12: Or scary?
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it was about this girl, and she was
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: Satan's daughter, and her mother, Diane Ladd, had to promise
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: Satan that on her 21st birthday she would marry a demon.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: And so the whole movie is about, like, Diane Ladd
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: decides to, like, go back on the deal with Satan
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: and obviously dies, and then The whole movie is her,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: she goes to live with Shelly Winters, and Shelly Winters
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: is the one that's supposed to start grooming her to
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: become the demon's wife, and then she rejects it and
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: falls in love with another man. And obviously at the end,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: she thinks she's won and she marries the man. And oh,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: lo and behold, everybody at the service is a demon
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: because he's the one she was always meant to marry.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 10: Nice.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 13: And of course it's Shelley Winters.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: Of course it's Shelley Winters.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: And she's actually great in it. I finally found out
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: what it's called. It's called The Devil's Daughters, like a
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: 1973 movie of the week. But for years I've been
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out what this was. And I found
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: out last night after I saw this because I kept.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: Thinking about it.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: But I was always thinking the movie was going to
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: go there. I just always thought it was going to
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: go there. And then when it finally got there, it
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: was just too big for me. like that's that's the
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: only thing it just was too schmaltzy and silly and
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: over the top and i wanted it to be more
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: because the whole thing was this sort of neorealistic deal
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden the ending is just.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 14: Like yeah it makes sense plot wise yeah like.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: It just didn't make sense tonally i felt anyway sorry
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: i just.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 12: No i mean i think some of it it does
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 12: seem like that was my thing i think it it
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 12: does make sense tonally somewhat because it really does set
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 12: up like if you go back and like the music
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 12: in the beginning is so like foreboding and like those
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 12: shots of the moon and like all this other stuff
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 12: they work in that it kind of is a horror
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 12: movie up front. You just don't necessarily see it the
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 12: first time through. But I will say like when we
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 12: got to that end and I see the people trailing
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 12: down there and with the torches, I was like, that
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 12: part all seemed almost a little too familiar. Like I'll
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 12: give you it. It is almost a little too Wicker Man,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 12: a little too like all these other crazy cult movies that,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 12: that they've made over the years that they maybe could
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 12: have gone about it in a different way.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 10: But I don't know.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 12: I think it still seems like it holds, it holds
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 12: that line a little better that second time through. Yeah.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: I guess for me, that's why the whole time it
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: felt like a young filmmaker. It was like, this guy
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: has seen a lot of movies that he wants to
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: reference and he's got a lot of things to say
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: and he's just going to kind of throw it all together.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: And he's a craftsman. I mean, I think future films
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: are going to be great.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 23: He just needs to, I still think it's a really
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 23: good movie.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 4: God, it sure does raise your expectations, doesn't it?
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 25: I will say, I wasn't even my natural reaction to
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 25: that ending.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 6: I still love the movie.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 25: I think it's a great movie, but I've just seen
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 25: that ending a number of times, but I'm the kind
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 25: of person who pays attention to that kind of ending
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 25: or goes looking for it to be done well, and
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 25: I just haven't seen it yet.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: And the wife really needs to not laugh.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 14: Yeah.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 12: That does make it confusing.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 27: See, that's what I was saying, how I'd like to
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 27: remake movies and just change the one thing that really
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 27: bothers me. Actually, just do a remake, the whole thing,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 27: just electronically, CGI.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah, CGI.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 13: But either, again, either she laughs and she's in on
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 13: it and doesn't have the home invasion part.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 12: See, I would shut out the home invasion part.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 10: I think that makes more sense than taking out the laugh.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 12: I think the laughing makes sense without the home invasion part.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 14: Yes, exactly.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 13: I would be very comfortable with that.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 10: Because that's the whole thing.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 23: Even if you had the home invasion and no laugh,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 23: I think she would have stopped. She wouldn't have been
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 23: fighting him. I feel like she had to have been
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 23: in on it, but the home invasion thing, it doesn't
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 23: make sense unless.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 10: I don't know, unless it had.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 23: To be something where she had to carry out some
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 23: sacrifices too to be part of it.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 15: I don't know.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 10: That's the possibility. That's the whole problem with this cult.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 23: It's like, we keep recruiting people, but you have to
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 23: kill off other people.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 10: To get in.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 14: What if he and she leave and the kid's there
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 14: home alone?
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: And this cult comes. And he has to rig up.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 14: Instead of paint cans.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 10: Yeah, paint cans.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: Micro machines and paint cans.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 13: Yeah, BB guns.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: That was the other thing I didn't like about that scene, though,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: was when the door opened and she shot the dude immediately.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: And I was like, how does she know that's not
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: her husband?
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 12: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I was like, you
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 12: may have just shot your husband in the head.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 16: Good going.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 12: Good job, show.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 21: Well.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 13: Yeah. Because the laugh without the home invasion would justify it.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 13: Because I thought When the girlfriend, I forget her name, Fiona,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 13: is back at the house for we don't know why.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 13: That could be like kind of the recruiting, you know,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 13: we've got her.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: I think she needs to have been in and out
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: from day one.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: She was born to turn him.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 12: Well, yeah, even that second time through, then watching for it,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 12: everything else makes sense. Like from that point at least,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 12: if not from the beginning, I mean maybe before– they
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 12: even met Fiona, she was in on it, and she
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 12: already knew her, but even without that, even if she'd
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 12: never met her before, from the point she is back
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 12: after she breaks up with Gal or Gale or whatever,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 12: I think everything from that point makes sense that she's
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 12: working with the wife, she's bringing the wife in on it,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 12: the wife then starts sort of doing what she can
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 12: to steer him down that road, and you see, like,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 12: there's points when, like, even when the guy comes out
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 12: after they fight, and he's just like, I can't, I
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 12: can't do this anymore. I've got to go. And she's
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 12: the one trying to keep him– no, no, we still
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 12: need to– it's a quick scene, but she's the one
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 12: sort of talking him back into finishing the job.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 23: In that case, it's kind of like Rosemary's Baby in
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 23: the sense that the husband guy is constantly trying to
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 23: encourage Rosemary. It's like, no, no, no, keep drinking these
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 23: fluids that the cast of Vets bring over.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 10: Keep going to see.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 4: But this is so good and Rosemary's Baby is so horrible.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 10: I like Rosemary. Rosemary's Baby I actually view less as
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 10: a horror film and more as just a dark comedy.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 4: It's like what it it's like an extended joke that
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: it feels to me like a four hour joke.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 10: But I mean out of that trilogy though I think
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 10: I like The Tenant the best out of that. I
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 10: mean Rosemary's Baby.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 23: Is the most well known but The Tenant I think
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 23: is the most mature of the three or at least
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 23: the most twisted.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 10: I mean And I like Repulsion, too, but The.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 23: Tenet, I think, is my favorite. I think it's referred
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 23: to as the Apartment Trilogy. That's the name that's sort
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 23: of given to it.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 14: Well, that's the thing that struck me in Rosemary's Baby.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 14: I'm so bored.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 4: I'm just looking at the decor for the 70s. Like,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 4: look at that pillow.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 14: How could they not know that was a monstrosity?
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: Why was that okay?
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, how did people think that was all right to
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: have this hideous, ugly... And then they get into the kitchen,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: and it's like, the kitchen is kind of okay. Maybe
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 4: because it's utilitarian, they don't have all the 70s gung.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 4: And there's something about that. And then, you know, you watch,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 4: what was the old movie?
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 10: It's Maurice Evans' fault. He's the interior decorator in that.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 6: Oh, is it?
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 23: Yeah.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 14: Yeah.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 4: You know some sort of demons involved as soon as
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 4: you see the big macrame pillow thing. And they're just
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: sitting there next to it. Like they might as well
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 4: have entrails laying out on their floor, and they're just
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 4: sitting there talking.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 12: Well, if we're tying in interior design to this one,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 12: I mean, we get to the... the pornographer's house, the librarian,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 12: if you.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 6: Want to call him.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 12: Did you see in the background of there, there's creepy
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 12: clown paintings on his wall? No wonder he's into pornography
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 12: with kids or whatever horrible things on there. He needs
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 12: to die for those clowns on the wall.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 13: I like that they don't even explain what... It is
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 13: the big song.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 12: It's just that horrible.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 23: Well, and the question becomes, too, was he recruited because
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 23: that's what he was into, or would he have become
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 23: part of the cult and that's what he had to
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 23: get into so that way he'd be sacrificed?
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 10: And again, it has that ambiguity, too, that I like.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think he was recruited. Think he was.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 13: Born into it.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 12: But back to the wife, she's also the one that
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 12: sends him to the doctor. And the doctor's definitely in
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 12: on it. And she specifically told him he had to go.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 12: And then she's also the one that says, I'm going
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 12: to the cottage. and the whole finale is at the
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 12: cottage so i was just like everything with the exception
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 12: of that home invasion scene totally points to her from
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 12: at least the midpoint in the movie being in on
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 12: it if not just to throw you off so maybe
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 12: the only i was the only other thing i was
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 12: thinking is maybe they sort of double crossed her like
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 12: maybe she wasn't supposed to be sacrificed and then during
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 12: the home invasion they screw her over and make her
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 12: the final victim.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 23: Or maybe it was she thought that it was just
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 23: going to be him but she didn't know it was
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 23: going to be her son.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 12: Involved either of those changes it a little bit.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 23: So that sort of makes sense and that might be
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 23: a case to where it being so ambiguous it makes
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 23: it confusing.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 14: Or it's like we're writing a movie.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 13: Yeah, we're making it better for them.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 12: But it invites that. It leaves all these windows in
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 12: it for you to go, well, wait, maybe it's this.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 12: And again, I think that's a good sign. I think
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 12: most of that isn't accidental. I think everything is so
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 12: well placed in this movie that he kind of leaves
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 12: those for you to fill in.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 23: Which it leaves us with the question that obviously.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 10: Guy is the main character? No, Guy.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 6: Jay.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 5: Jay, Jay.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 23: I'm mixing Gayle and Jay. That Jay would have at
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 23: that point, and that is, how involved was my wife?
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 23: So, I mean, we're left with the same question. It's like,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 23: how involved was she in all of this, after.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 24: All of it?
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I don't know.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 14: Somehow it's not palatable.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 4: To me as ambiguity.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 14: Like the way at the end of Blue Velvet, when
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 14: her dad comes in.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 4: And looks around like, Okay, everybody's dead. I guess I
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 4: can just be.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 14: You wonder, like, how involved was he in that underworld?
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 4: And that's a nice ambiguity because it's clear what, you know,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 4: what the ambiguity is.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 14: Here, the ambiguity is, like, kind of amorphous.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 4: It could be all kinds of different directions where it
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 4: invites you to, like, mad-live your own version of the movie.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 12: But it does it so well.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 13: It does do it very well.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 23: When you think about it, like, that's... That's like one
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 23: of the only times you really see the wife on
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 23: her own, too. Because the majority of the film, Jay
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 23: is in it.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 10: Since it is his story.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 14: Almost like it's following his point of view. Yeah.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, again, that is the moment where I
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: cheated because I just couldn't get the last thing out
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: of my head and I was like, I just gotta
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: know what's going on here.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: And so apparently she wasn't ever supposed to be.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 10: In on it.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: And so that scene, it almost makes it feel like, well,
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: it's all of a sudden they just decided to give
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: her agency. They're like, we haven't let her do much
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: and let's give her a gun or let's let her
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: show off.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 23: If that's what the filmmaker says, that really doesn't make
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 23: much sense because she's a huge red herring.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 10: If that's the case.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 12: But I heard even she said that. They follow her
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 12: on Twitter and people were asking that and she says,
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 12: according to her she wasn't in on it like her
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 12: character wasn't in on it which again makes no sense
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 12: to me but.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah so i think that's the only really false step
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: aside from yeah.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 13: It's just what admitting that she wasn't in on it
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 13: that's the false step.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: Can we just laugh like i felt like i mean
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: honestly i do think it might have been a more
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: interesting movie if she had been in on it all
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: the time but i don't think there's any indication.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 12: Kind of how i read it i don't know that's
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 12: that's still sort of how i process it you know.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 16: Can we just say the filmmaker's wrong yeah i.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 4: Think you can do all the time i think you
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 4: can i often see things and i in movies and
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 4: i'm just like no that's wrong and sometimes i'm not
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 4: even sure why it is it's just somebody does something
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 4: it's like i don't believe that i just i don't
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 4: i mean if i'm supposed to invest in the movie
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 4: in some way i invest in it the way i
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 4: do and.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 14: If i think it's wrong yeah.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 4: But then sometimes i don't know like first time i
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 4: saw uh unbearable lightness of being i just i i
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 4: It didn't work. And I saw it again later, and
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 4: it's like, oh.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 16: I've been meaning to read that book for years now, literally.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 4: I actually think when it was released, the opening was different,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 4: and I later saw a different edit of it, because
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 4: I just remembered some things different. but it could also
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 4: be that I'm insane.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 13: I think your take on that might help me, Alan,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 13: might help me sleep better and not think about it
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 13: so much. Because, yeah, you can be wrong. I mean,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 13: you kind of, in thinking that way, would want the
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 13: filmmaker to then listen to the podcast and go, shit,
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 13: that's what I should have done. Why did I do that?
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 13: Maybe I should have rewritten that one more time.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 4: Ultimately, I wouldn't expect the actress to be able to
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 4: tell me what the story adds up to.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 13: Yeah, that's not her job either, on her Twitter page
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 13: or whatever. This is the way it was meant to be.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 13: A lot of directors are going to just give her whatever...
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 13: she thinks is supposed to happen so that they can
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 13: get that out of her.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 12: To make it look better.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 13: She may not have any clue.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 4: It's just the way that every actor has to play
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 4: themselves as the hero. The bad guy doesn't think of
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 4: themselves as the bad guy. But she thought she left ironically.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 27: With Maybe she has no idea why she was laughing.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: Or maybe, ironically, she doesn't know.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 13: What irony is.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 14: Isn't it ironic?
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 13: She has no idea what irony is. It's ironic that
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 13: none of that's irony.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 4: Originally, Alanis Morissette was going to play that part. She
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 4: had a scheduling conflict.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: A visa problem.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was written for her.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 12: No, she plays God in everything. She's the God running
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 12: all of this. So, do we want to go into
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 12: the theories that other people have come up with?
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 13: Let's beat this dead horse.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 12: Again, normally I don't even bring in other people's stuff,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 12: but trying to come up with at least other theories
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 12: and other ideas. This is William Mager, I think, M-A-G-E-R,
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 12: so if you want to look up his whole deal,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 12: but The first part is.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 10: What is his deal?
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 12: No, it's what is this movie's deal? He basically....
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 10: Is it going to upset him that you're mispronouncing his name?
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 12: If so, he should spell it easier to say.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 16: Are these people that you know, or do you look
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 16: stuff up?
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 12: This is probably from Britain, because again, at the time,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 12: I think it was when it just came out.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 10: It's British.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 12: We're just throwing theories out there. So... Just claiming that
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 12: it's not me. I don't want to pretend like I'm
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 12: stealing this idea when it's very well put together by
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 12: somebody else. So in the, yeah, what the hell happened
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 12: in this movie, it kind of goes through the whole plot.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 12: But basically, his take on it is, unbeknownst to them,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 12: the assassins are actually part of a ceremony to turn
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 12: Jay into the new Antichrist. The whole film is mentioned
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 12: by the cult leader as a reconstruction. Jay is the
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 12: subject of the reconstruction. They see the pure evil that's
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 12: inside him, and this is different than what we thought, too.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 12: After Fiona sees his behavior at the dinner party, he
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 12: is officially marked by her, and she ritually sacrifices the
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 12: rabbit in the garden, which Jay later eats for breakfast,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 12: unwittingly accepting the sacrifice and the first stage of his reconstruction.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 12: She predicted... that if.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 27: I kill a rabbit in his jar, he's going to
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 27: take it into the kitchen and eat it.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 12: This guy likes to show off. If I leave a rabbit.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 13: He's being recruited.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 16: I don't buy that because I don't think.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 12: I think Fiona.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: Brought herself into Gal Gale's life purposefully, like they met
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: at the gym or whatever, and then she immediately dumped
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: him as soon as she met.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, either she was.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 14: Did she really leave a Dear John note on his dick?
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 12: That might have been some other colorful language.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: I was worried.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 13: Like with a Sharpie marker?
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 3: Or did he say taped?
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 13: Yeah, I think he said taped.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 16: Oh, about the rap thing.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 6: Was anybody else.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 13: Sorry.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 16: But was anybody else impressed that he tasted the blood
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 16: and could tell it was a rabbit blood?
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 14: Yeah.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 12: I thought he was just being a smartass.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 13: Oh, that's possible.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 3: I thought he could tell it was a rabbit and
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 3: he did that.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 12: Yeah, because he was being gross. Like you can put
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 12: your ear to the ground and.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 14: So Ford Fairlane.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 12: They do that really well, just the two of them.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 12: When they're not at each other's throats fighting, there are
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 12: those little moments where they do seem like a couple.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 14: Even when they're fighting.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 12: Yeah, they definitely seem like they fight.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 16: My favorite thing in the dinner was when she's like,
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 16: At least I don't embarrass you in front of everybody
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 16: else like you do. Meanwhile, she's sniping him with little
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 16: passive emotions.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 13: Yeah, it's all over the place.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 6: It was beautiful.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 14: It was fucking beautiful.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 12: They're fighting about it.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 6: That was much more brutal than the violence.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 16: Yeah.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 13: Especially what they were doing to the kid.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 14: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 12: That's the real horror.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 13: Poor kid.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 12: But yeah, even when they're... there are these grand, you know,
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 12: life and death situations going on in their life, but
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 12: when they're fighting, they're fighting about, you took all the
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 12: meat off the plate, you're serving gravy in this. It's like,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 12: those are real fights.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 13: I love that line, too.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 16: It's like a, whatever it's like, chemistry.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 27: It's like a fucking chemistry sentence.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 12: Again, I was like, ooh, I was like, that's a
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 12: real couple right there. They know what they're doing.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 13: But that did, when she brought that out the first time,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 13: I even said, That's tacky. When we got into it,
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 13: I was.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 12: Like, don't you have a gravy boat?
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 13: I'm going to yell at that bitch.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 14: God, all that stuff was so good.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 13: Like the little chef hats.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 4: It's got to be so hard to build a scene
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 4: like that.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 12: Tell me the little chef hats wasn't improvised. You know
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 12: that was one of the added lines. Oh, let's see.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 12: Continuing on with this one, it acknowledges that the The
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 12: way his victims smile and thank him when they're killing him,
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 12: they know who he really is. To be killed by
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 12: him as a member of the cult is an honor.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 12: The three victims, the priest, the librarian, and the MP
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 12: are obvious figures of authority, each with a stereotypical dark side.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 12: Then it gets to the end. Jay is forced to
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 12: fight the final victim on the kill list, the hunchback.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 12: As he stats the hunchback, you know, the... The disguise
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 12: comes up.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: I was just thinking about the stereotypical dark side of librarians.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 13: Like, this is a really familiar show.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 14: Yeah, wait.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 10: Actually, did they ever really go into.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 13: I don't think of a librarian as an authority figure.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 12: They are if you're in the library.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 10: Well, when it came to the priest, though, I mean,
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 10: they made fun of.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 14: They're always shushing him.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 10: They joked about how he was probably, like, screwing kids.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 6: Was that ever.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 10: Established, though?
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 12: But you get to the porn angle, and again, I've
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 12: even read things saying that everybody assumes it's kiddie porn.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 12: So there's a tie-in with all of this that it's
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 12: some sort of weird... I don't know.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 4: It's so smacks of satanic ritual abuse, and that's such bullshit.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 4: I just don't know where.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 14: To go with that whole side of it. I don't know.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I feel like it's missing... It's in the wrong
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 6: decade for that story, for that thing to be scary.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 10: It has to be like in the 70s, late 60s,
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 10: early 70s.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 12: It strikes me as one of those movies. But there's
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 12: that weird resurgence. The House of the Devil is kind
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 12: of tapping into that same thing.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 10: Because that sort of reminded me of that to an extent, too.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 14: Well, actually, right after.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 4: The end of the Cold War, there was a rash
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 4: of this cultural mania. People started reporting all this satanic
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 4: ritual abuse already.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 14: There was even a.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 4: Sheriff who admitted to it, but later, through his testimony
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 4: and his recovered memories, people figured out he would have
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 4: to have fucking been in two places at once. He's
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 4: confessing to something that.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 14: Couldn't have happened. And it's just a.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 4: There's never, to my knowledge, been a single corroborated case
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 4: of satanic ritual abuse. There's just been a lot of
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 4: recovered memory stuff. And it's kind of a dementia that
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 4: came up after the end of the Cold War. I
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 4: don't know. The movie kind of leans that way, but
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I was enjoying so much the archetypes
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 4: of evil. The librarian.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 14: The hunchback. The evil hunchback.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 12: That hunchback is evil.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 4: I don't know his name, but his face rings a bell.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 20: Oh my god.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 12: So yeah, he kills the hunchback, as it were, in
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 12: the same way that we mentioned that he did earlier
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 12: with the wife and son in the garden. And then
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 12: the wrap-up on this one is killing your own wife
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 12: and son is the ultimate sacrifice and the biggest honor.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 12: Jay has done it and will now become their new leader.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 12: So they actually are crowning him. According to this version,
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 12: he's the new leader. So again, leading to that, it's
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 12: a much bigger beginning that we end on. Now, I
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 12: don't know what he's going to do, because he seems
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 12: clueless as to what's going on. So, that's that version,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 12: which again is a little more by the numbers.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 23: And does he even accept that honor, considering he was
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 23: getting to the point where he was very self-conscious about
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 23: a lot of the killings?
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: But then he's lost everything. Isn't that part of military training, too?
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: They cut you down so you don't have anything, and
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: all you have is this authority that you follow.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 4: And then you're Richard Gere and an officer and a
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 4: gentleman going.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 14: I've got no place else to go.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 4: By the time you're Richard Gere, you know you've lost
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 4: it all.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 6: So this is either a rewriting of either.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 10: Of those movies. It's a remake of Private Benjamin.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 16: He's a good man and thorough.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 12: So do we want the other even more deeper theorized version? Okay,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 12: it also goes on, and this is the very could be.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 12: The film could be a commentary on society today and
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 12: on the government's foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan. Gail
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 12: and Jay are soldiers who kill on the orders of
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 12: a higher power in order to obtain or maintain their
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 12: collection of empty consumer materials. We didn't get into the consumerism.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 14: They live in the suburbs.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 12: Well, empty consumer materials.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 9: Possibly.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 12: The hot tub, which is never used and never works,
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 12: is a symbol of that, and Jay's inability to buy
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 12: basic items like toilet paper while worrying about the hot tub.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 12: War dehumanizes people, but so does consumerism. Jay is prepared
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 12: to kill strangers in order to keep himself, his wife,
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 12: and his child in the lifestyle in which they've become accustomed.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 12: I thought that was interesting.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 14: That's definitely there.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 3: You can't say that's not in the movie.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 13: I don't know.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 16: That seems like a stretch.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 12: It's stretching it, but the The seeds are there.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 25: They do make a point of discussing recessions and, like,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 25: comparing it to the 80s and now, don't they?
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the recessions are much more glamorous in the 80s.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 4: They're like that line, too.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 16: The jacuzzi was for medical purposes. It was for his back,
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 16: he said. Which, she disputed that, but she was just
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 16: being a bitch, I think.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 14: Yeah.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 16: And then as far as the....
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 13: I dispute your saying that the wife is a bitch.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 13: Are we going to vote on this?
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 14: Did he have a bad back?
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 13: How many times... How many for she's just being a bitch?
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: How many thinks he just doesn't want.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 12: To work anymore? We can all kind of get on
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 12: board with that.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 16: She was pushing him to work because he hadn't worked
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 16: for eight months and they need to... get an income
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 16: so it's not necessarily that they need more things they
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 16: need an income so they can.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 13: Try not buying 10 bottles of wine.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 16: Yes I know and that's his own fault you know
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 16: but oh.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 4: The garage that garage is so brilliant the garage beer
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 4: stacked up in oh.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 12: Yeah automatic weapon in the case i like all the
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 12: unused exercise that was my favorite.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah garage in england is the last place on earth
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 4: where you can put an ab lounge out of the way.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 12: Oh lord so i don't know i think it's a
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 12: lot of things. I think it's all of these things
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 12: and maybe more, maybe less. It's all up to you,
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 12: kind of. I don't know that we've finalized it for Randy,
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 12: but we've certainly thrown a lot of theories out there.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 16: I stuck by my record.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 10: A lot of spoilers.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 12: We warned you up front on the spoilers, so you
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 12: should have already watched it. It's your own fault if
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 12: you're still listening.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 13: Yeah, I wonder what Marlena's thinking of all this. I've
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 13: been playing Angry Birds for like.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 11: The last half an hour, so I don't know.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 12: Because somebody's a slacker and didn't watch the movie.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 14: Hey, I tried.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 12: So, I don't know. Do we have anything else to
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 12: wrap this up?
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 10: You're going to regret tuning us out when you get home.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 14: There's a dead.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 10: Rabbit on your front porch. You're not going to know
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 10: what to do.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 13: She almost leans over and tastes it. It's like, it's
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 13: definitely rabbit.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 10: She'll lean over and taste it.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 14: Is this a cat?
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 12: That was another one.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 14: I think it's a badger.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 15: There's a dead duck right there.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 4: Actually, it's a cat with a white stripe painted down
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 4: its back.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 23: You've got a dead duck in front of your house.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 23: It's already begun, and you've been turning tuna salad.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 13: You better turn over your mirror in your bathroom.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 14: What do I fry it with? Garlic? I don't know.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 16: Garlic and onion. I love that scene.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 4: What a great movie in so many ways.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 14: Excruciating disappointment.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 13: I will not recommend it to that many people.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 23: Really?
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 13: Yeah, because it's going to take a certain... person to
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 13: watch them.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 12: I mean, number one, it's a love it or hate
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 12: it movie anyway. There's a lot of people who just
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 12: wouldn't sit through it the way that it is just
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 12: the way that it's written and performed is not going
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 12: to sit well with a.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 23: Lot of people I don't think a lot of folks
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 23: will get past just the initial violence like the whole
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 23: torture and the librarian scene I can see I don't
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 23: even think.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 12: Before that I think there's a lot of people that
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 12: just watching them argue the first 20 minutes of the
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 12: movie like there's two arguments before you even get to
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 12: the plot as.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 9: It were so yeah there's a lot of people that
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 9: would probably tune out right there just based on all
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 9: they do is yell at each other which I agree
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 9: Those are some brutal fights.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 16: After seeing it, I immediately posted the trailer on Facebook
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 16: and said, everybody needs.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 14: To see this.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 16: Because lots of people won't like it, but they're wrong.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 16: Not that it's wrong to dislike it.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 23: It's not even that, but it's just a good film
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 23: for sparking the thought about what.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 10: You just saw.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 4: I think it's a love it and hate it movie.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 4: There's a lot that's so good in it, no matter what.
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 14: Else we say.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 16: It made me really want to see his first movie,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 16: just because I think he's a really good director.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 14: It made me want to watch the actors, too.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 16: The guy who plays Gal is in his first movie,
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 16: Down Terrace. So there's that.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 4: And I know I've seen him in something else. I
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 4: was thinking I'd seen him in a Shakespeare thing. But no,
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 4: I think he was in that British comedy about the apartment.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 8: Peep Shop.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 14: I think, was it Spaced? Oh, yeah.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 6: I think he is in that.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 4: I think he's in that.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 14: I knew I'd seen his face before. It was so distinct.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 13: He would be superb.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 6: Was he Brian?
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 4: I forget his name. I don't remember anybody's name. Was
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 4: the girl Daisy?
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 12: I think so, yeah.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 14: Daisy?
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 12: My Michelle, I sat there the whole time going, why
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 12: does she look so damn familiar? She's one of the.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 14: Girls from The Descent.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 12: I really love The Descent.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 16: Did you like the second one?
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 12: Not really. They were trying to do.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 10: The first was fine enough as it was.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 12: Yeah, I was not so thrilled with the second, but
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 12: the first one.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 16: The first one's pretty fantastic.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 12: And kind of I've got that same feeling, like when
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 12: you get to those tunnel scenes, those are really creepy.
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 12: I will give them credit for the people running at
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 12: them is a creepy scene, and the tunnel scenes are
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 12: just like really creepy.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 10: Especially with them just having the headlights, and that's all
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 10: you can see.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 12: And you just hear the shuffling, and they just appear
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 12: out of the darkness and stab. and, yeah, it's creepy.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 12: So that was a lot of really dark and confined.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 12: Middle-aged naked women running at you. Yeah, you don't want
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 12: to see that.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 10: Barbed wire.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 12: No, no, that's no good.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: I kept thinking about those extras. Like, how do you
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: convince somebody to do that?
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 14: Did you notice that a lot of them were couples?
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 14: In the credits?
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 4: They looked like they had married couple names or could
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 4: have been brother-sister pairs. But it reminded me of that
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 4: story about Dave Eggers when he worked for this magazine,
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 4: Mike Magazine. They tried to do this feature that was
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 4: unlike all the other magazines. They were going to show
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 4: normal people naked. And the only people they could get
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 4: to do it was the staff. And so they did
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 4: all these photos, and not everybody got totally naked, but
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 4: they took the photos, and then they get the photos back.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 4: Because this is what the media should be doing, showing
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 4: normal people, right? They get the photos back, and it's like,
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 4: in theory, yeah, but not these people.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 14: These people are freaks.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 12: Nobody wants to see regular people.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 14: You know, and it was them.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 12: We play nice, and we say we do, but nobody really.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 14: Wants to see regular people.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 16: I find it kind of satisfying, just because there are
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 16: regular people.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 10: You're like, damn, I look good.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 12: That's possibly true.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 4: But actually, I remember when I was a kid, growing
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 4: up in a small town in Kentucky before the digital revolution,
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 4: the only place you could see naked pictures of normal
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 4: women were in books about witchcraft.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 14: That was the only source. Books about witchcraft.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 12: It all comes back around.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 13: Witches with scars are now what.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 13: Witches with strange scars are now what Fred likes.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 14: Oh, no, that was a hippie girl.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 13: Well, I know, but I'm putting the two together.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 14: Witches and scars.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 12: The ultimate for you as a young boy.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 23: So you're regretting that witches with scars haven't moved in
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 23: next door instead of the hipsters.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 10: I guess.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 14: I don't know. I'm okay with the hippies. The hipsters, though,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 14: they're changing the dynamics. I don't know. I liked having
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 14: them a little ways over in the Highlands.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 4: You know, they're there. You see them at the coffee shops.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 4: But now they're getting too close. And I told you
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 4: I did that search and replace. I did my own
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 4: version of Huckleberry Finn where I replaced the N-word with hipster.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 10: Hipster Jim.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 14: Hipster Jim.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 3: Well, but the description of this movie.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 4: Reminded me I have another book that's coming out soon. It's...
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 4: it's uh heart of darkness but i'm replacing the words
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 4: heart of darkness with box of chocolates.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 12: Oh my god i'm glad i'm illiterate now i have to.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 23: Read this yeah you mentioned i mean it could almost
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 23: turn into your own individual horror film because you just
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 23: come home one day and everyone in your house you
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 23: know they've got you know the brimmed glasses and uh-huh
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 23: and um They're listening to My Morning Jacket.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 10: They're watching The Life Aquatic.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 14: And they're like, here, take these pods.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's scary.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 16: I think hipsters are funny.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 22: At best.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 16: Well, there are different kinds of hipsters. You have the
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 16: wannabe hipsters who are just annoying as fuck. And then
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 16: you have the actual hipsters. I work with this girl.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 16: It's just how she is. She's very sweet, and that's okay.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 14: Yeah.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 16: It's the wannabe hipsters like this other girl.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 13: Unfortunately, there are tendencies that I think all of us
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 13: probably have that would fall into the hipster thing. It's
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 13: just they have assumed what we've already done. And that
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 13: doesn't then make what we do lame. It just, they've
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 13: just taken on that. My brother-in-law, there's a band that
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 13: he liked, and he said, God, they were so, I mean,
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 13: almost like in the hipster Bible, he said they were
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 13: so cool until they all started liking them. And he
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 13: doesn't like them anymore. I'm like, no, if you love
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 13: the music, just love the music. Don't let what other
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 13: people tag as cool affect how you.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 10: See, aren't we doing that right now? We're talking about
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 10: the movies before they're cool.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 13: Right.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 10: Not too many people have seen Kill List.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 12: British people have.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 4: Well, I just think making fun of hipsters is just
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 4: an amusing, harmless comic foil, really.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 14: And they're always going to be.
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 13: Yeah, I always thought of the hipster games.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: It actually changed my perception.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 7: Oh.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 14: Do you know about.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 15: I mean, it's like the.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 14: The juggalos of today.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 12: I mean, to me, they're asking for it, and I
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 12: am willing to deliver.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 16: Do you know about the website LookAtThatFuckingHipster.com?
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 3: No, I haven't seen that.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 16: It's just pictures of hipsters that people have taken that
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 16: are just ridiculous. It's like PeopleOfWalmart.com.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 12: I need to get my camera out there.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 14: I do sort of play that game, though.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 4: I ought to start taking pictures because I'll be driving
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 4: around with my kids and just go, look at that guy.
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 15: I have a friend on Facebook who does that, but
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 15: she is like an extreme hipster.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: It's just like.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 4: People who make fun of hipsters are hipsters.
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 13: Hipsters aren't necessarily aware.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 3: It's just everybody else is a poser. It's really easy
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 3: to play.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 16: That's what I'm saying. The actual hipsters don't realize they're hipsters.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 16: The wannabe hipsters try to be.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 12: They're all trying too hard. That's the problem.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: If you know that you're a hipster, it nullifies the
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: fact that you're a hipster.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 16: You can't know that you're a hipster.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 10: So in this movie he becomes king of the hipster?
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: I was already writing that movie in my head right now.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: A horror film about hipsters.
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 12: Becoming a hipster and you don't know it and then
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 12: you're shocked with the, oh God, I'm not only a hipster,
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 12: I'm king of the hipsters.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 14: Oh, that reminds me for some reason of.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 4: The great scene in The Young Ones when the anarchist
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 4: guy goes, Oh.
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 14: My god, I've killed an hippie.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 13: That's one of the great lines.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 23: Suddenly he realizes that he's bought a VCR and VHS collection.
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 13: No! God, I love that show.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 10: Oh lord. I just killed someone for Polaroid film. Shouldn't
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 10: have stopped making it.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 12: Okay, we should round this thing up. We are out
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 12: of control. So, yeah, I think if nothing else, even
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 12: if you've seen it the one time that we told
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 12: you to before you're listening to this, it becomes a
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 12: different movie that second time. I think it's worth at
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 12: least a repeat viewing, if not multiple, somewhere down the
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 12: line just to decide what you think about it. Not
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 12: even that you think it's that great, just that I
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 12: think it adds a different perspective at least one more
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 12: time through. That's what I think.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 7: Cool.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 12: All right, anything else you want to pass along before
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 12: we get the.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 14: Hell out of here?
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 21: Marlena?
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: No, I'm good.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 12: I'm firing birds. Don't worry about her.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 10: No, I'm actually playing a game similar to Boggle.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 14: You look very intent.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 13: Yeah, I am.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 14: Wow. Oh, Lord.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 12: Otherwise, that about does it. We will return next week.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 12: Same geek time, same geek feed.
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 7: I'm dropping down to the countryside Something caught my attention
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 7: We're talking about the people that I like I never
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 7: gave you a mention. I'm writing down a list that
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 7: I've defined.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 12: Nothing can stop my action. There ain't no place for
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 12: you to hide.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 6: No one around for protection.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 12: To escape all this madness.
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 23: Ha!
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 12: To do or cover the truth.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: I need to dwell on my sadness.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 23: Ha!
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 13: It's like my only escape.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 7: And what it sounded so clearly Slowly went out of
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 7: state Referring.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 12: To the list I had to write.
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 24: I had to stop the projection No longer looking for
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 24: a place to hide I learned to love the imperfection To.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 10: Escape all this.
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 7: Madness I need to uncover.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 10: The truth.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 7: I need to dwell on my sadness.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 25: Bye.
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 10: Bye.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 22: I'm right here, misfearing My list of people that I
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 22: have to kill Go down and I'm right here Ignore
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 22: what I'm saying and stay if you will I'm right here,
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 22: misfearing My list of people that I have to kill
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 22: Go down and You know what I'm saying?
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 18: No more guitar, mate. Not in restaurants.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 13: There's a time and a place.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 18: And your time and a place is in a very
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 18: isolated location where no one's likely to be for about
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 18: a fucking hundred years.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 14: Okay? Because Jimmy Hendrix, you ain't.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 17: This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 17: edited by The Oddity Studios, with opening music performed by
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 17: The Empires. For more on how to sponsor or support
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 17: the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 5: Talk hard!