Latest / Full Credit to the Noise / NEWS: Supercars parity debate + is it time for paddle-shift?
Transcript
- Speedcafe Team: Hello and welcome to Full Credit to the News brought to you by Authentic Collectibles. My name is Andrew Van Lorn and I'm joined by Speed Cafe's managing editor, Stefan Bartholomeys. Stefan, what a week it's been. I still wake up every day and think I need to drive to Queensland Raceway for some reason. It was a long week out there. We didn't quite get through all of it because we didn't go to the ride day. So full credit to anybody who ⁓ who managed to do that one as well. But now we're recording this on the Friday afternoon after the race meeting. It feels like we're doing our own endurance test. Yeah, no, it is the time to ⁓ try and get on top of things and see how ⁓ see how long you can keep all of the valves and bearings and other parts of the motor ⁓ intact. But we'll get on to some of that stuff pretty soon. But I think we should kick things off this week by having a chat about parity because once again, things are very interestingly poised as we head into the Enduros and in a number of ways. Let's start by talking. Aero parody because we do believe that the parody review system was triggered by both the Chev and the Toyota at Queensland Raceway. It was definitely a tough weekend for the Chev crews. There's absolutely no doubt about that. We haven't heard too much about Toyota. It doesn't feel like there's any major work going on in terms of trying to get any sort of aero change on the Toyota front, but we do understand that GM is pushing for a serious review before heading to the bend. It's a important time because it's the last time in the season that these changes can be made. And they kind of they're in place for two events. That's how the system kind of works. So whatever happens, you're getting it for Bathurst. We saw Ford campaign very successfully in the lead up to the Enduros last year for a change, which they carried through to the end of the season and ended up winning the Bathurne and the championship. Where do you feel things are at for ⁓ for GM right at this point? Well it's ⁓ it's a topic that's come roaring back this parody discussion and it was realistically always gonna be the case. ⁓ we should really stress that under this trigger system, supercars is required now to review, but they're not actually required to make a change. So it is meant to be based on science and that only change anything if there's sound technical disparity reasons to do so. But I think we both know that ⁓ These things are pretty political. And clearly, like for supercards, it's not great to have at the moment one Chev in the finals. But yeah, with those guys already having had two aero changes earlier this year, two changes of the spec that came out of the wind tunnel, the reaction to changing again just before the biggest races of the season would be enormous, I'd say. It's one of those. really complicating factors in that, you know, the plan heading over to the United States for the wind tunnel test was that the Camaro would be the benchmark and the other two cars would be paratized in terms of aero around that car. It didn't end up working out that way. There were changes made to that car, changes that were, I don't know if unwound is the right word, but some of the things they felt that the team 18 as the homologation team felt that it had lost with the Camaro in the wind tunnel you know, these changes ⁓ in New Zealand and Tasmania were about trying to get that back. But it it's not a like for like. It's not like the car is in the exact same spec it was at the end of last season. And that's just it's a shame in a way because this whole, well, is it sporting, is it technical, could have been pretty easily answered if you could sit back and strictly say, Well, look at what Triple Eight did with that package last year. It can't be an issue in terms of the car itself. So it must be Teams and drivers underperforming, but we can't say that because there is this question mark over the fact that the car left the wind tunnel different than when it what it was when it went into it. But again, they have already had two goes at correcting it. So I'm not sure how many licks of the ice cream they're gonna they're gonna want here. And if the Chevy teams can't get their heads around anything that's changed, then it's amazing that ⁓ triple eight have Being able to do what they have been able to do with the Ford and likewise Walking Shaw with a Toyota, because they'd faced a lot more changes than ⁓ simply what's going on with the Camaro. Yeah, that's true. And I guess the other complicating factor to it is that there were some pretty promising sh signs from the Chev package ⁓ in the lead up to QR. You know, we saw team 18 on a pretty good run of ending up on the podium heading into that round. ⁓ we even had in Perth Adrian Burgess saying, Yep, I reckon I'm pretty happy with where things sit at the moment. I don't think there's any issues with the car. But then there was just that really poor QR round, which you can imagine is gonna spook a few of those people heading into these big races. It was a surprise to me at least that ⁓ the Chevies in general were so uncompetitive there. I mean team eighteen, they just look like they had a a bit of an average weekend, but for Premier and Mat Stone Racing to be so far down At a track where they've done rookie test days with their drivers. That was ⁓ yeah, a surprise. But ⁓ I think the the really interesting part of where we're at with this parody discussion right now is that it's it's two-sided because there's a bunch of Ford teams that think that the Camaro is going to be unstoppable at Bathurst because of the long straights and also this barometric pressure discussion that was a huge talking point last year in the lead up to the great race. And Supercar still hasn't finalised its ⁓ its study and implemented anything off the back of that. ⁓ which I believe they are trying to do still ahead of this year's race. But ⁓ there's a bit of a there's different views within the Ford camp as to whether this actually makes a difference. I find this thing entirely fascinating because As you say, like let's let's rewind to the Bathus one or the lead up to the Bathus one thousand last year. When I say the lead up, I mean up until like the Friday night of the Bathus one thousand, ⁓ when we had the then homologation team, Dick Johnson Racing, effectively trying to protest the entire race meeting based on the fact that this preliminary work into the barometric performance or the differences that ⁓ in performance based on barometric pressure. existed but no changes were implemented and all this sort of stuff. And it really just felt inevitable that twelve months on there would be some sort of solution based on the fact that there was some data there that suggested there is a a a difference. And then fast forward to now, here we are in the lead up to the race at the time when this work really y you would have thought would have been completed or That the politiquing would be at its absolute peak in terms of trying to get changes made. And this is something that shouldn't just affect the Ford engine, but the Toyota as well, given the fact it's also a quad cam ⁓ engine. ⁓ but it it's hard to really tell where things are at because Ford itself certainly thinks there is still an issue, and these this is all based on conversations you and I had with various people on and off the record over the Queenstown Raceway weekend. Ford thinks there's an issue. A lot of the Ford teams who have been there before in this position think there's an issue, but the one Ford team that doesn't think it's an issue is Triple Eight, the homologation team. And there's kind of no urgency in that building to be trying to get anything changed. And Jamie Winkup told us that in no uncertain terms, and on the record, he doesn't believe that this is something that needs to be rectified. It's a very it's a fascinating situation. It is, and I guess you've got to look back at the fact that Triple Eight have kept the same line on this the whole way through. Yeah. Even I remember talking to Mark Dutton at the bend last year, who said that their studies into the Mustang package indicate that any straight line issues are aero and not engine. And then they were very big in pushing that after Bathurst. ⁓ this this idea that it was something about the Aero package that was particularly in the race ⁓ that the Camaras could tow up on the Mustangs. And it was not to do with engine. And ⁓ now obviously they're on the other side, but they are still convinced that the barrow testing isn't really required and they'll be competitive on the straits, which you can infer then is because of whatever they've done arrow wise, the small tweaks that went on with the Mustang are gonna be good enough. So yeah, it's it's very interesting that the other four teams don't see it that way. Obviously with barometric pressure, you're really talking about air density. So it's impacted by altitude but also temperature. And there have been people pointing to the fact that the Chevy's were pretty quick in Darwin. Obviously, Anton Di Pasquale won the Sunday race there and they were certainly good in a straight line. So there's that little part in the mix as well. But ⁓ yeah, I mean, if the Chevy does have some sort of benefit at Bathurst, you look at how the teams are stacked on the forward side, it could actually ⁓ if there is anything in all that, create a better race. Yeah, I was actually having the same thought just before. It's kind of it's a sounds like a weird thing to say, but it might actually be the sort of accidental sporting parody that we need to make it a better race weekend ⁓ up there at Mount Panorama. It could make it quite interesting, particularly when you look at a combo like David Reynolds and James Courtney. Like you you just know that, you know, Like team eighteen was gonna have a better weekend at Darwin 'cause it's ⁓ sorry, at Bathurst because it's got two drivers who are very good at Mount Panorama. Like Anton Di Pasquale's very good there and David Reynolds is exceptional there and they've got really, really good co-drivers. So you sort of see them coming back into the fight anyway, and then if there is this kind of advantage, if it does exist, then suddenly they're right in the mix for the race. You also can't imagine that the Ford team's gonna lay down and remember that this is a racing issue, not a qualifying speed issue, because We saw Brody Kastecki be blindingly fast there last year in the Ford package. So it actually all sets it up to be to be quite sort of interesting. But I do, just to come back to a point you made a moment ago, I do really rate the consistency from Triple Eight on this and the fact that, you know, as Jamie Winkarp said to you and I in the in the conversation that's currently on the website right now, like there should just be no more changes. Like we should just be done with this, you know. So it would be really difficult, I think, for him and for them as an organisation to have this really strong view that there needs to be like actual hardware changes made to the to the engine for this one race, while also saying the Chev teams need to stop whining about not having fast enough cars because, you know, because the the the that car has been changed and it should be fast enough. So at least, you know, there there is a there is a real line of consistency in terms of what the messaging that's coming out of Triple Eight, which is I think something semi-admirable. Yeah, but at the same time, if Supercars completes that testing and implements changes based on that, that's not ⁓ triple eight being duplicitous about their messaging. They're just saying, hey, we're happy with what we've got. Let's ⁓ let's press on. It just feels like such a tricky thing to do when you talk about that in the in the air density when you sort of look at it through that, because again, yeah, this was all about, ⁓ this is gonna be a one off Bathus change, but then yeah, I don't know. It it just feels like a messy situation to try and make a change to the engine for one round and then what sort of can of worms does that open for conversations about Darwin and events like that? It's a it's a horrendously tricky thing. Yeah, and ⁓ again like the reason I believe that this barrow stuff hasn't been completed is because of the sheer workload that supercars and their engine department have had to deal with, which has been largely based around the Toyota. ⁓ and obviously that trauma's been going on as as great as ever in the last sort of month or so. we don't know much about Toyota on the parody front, as you mentioned earlier. We believe it has triggered I would certainly think those guys would be very, very much better off focusing on reliability rather than pushing for anything on performance. But there's also this question now about the reliability of the Ford engine after three failures across the race weekend and the test day at Ipswich. Do you think ⁓ those guys should be concerned about what they're seeing? ⁓ yeah, I I I I assume they would be quite concerned about what they're seeing if we like okay, well let's run through the issues that we have seen so far. So for Ford, ⁓ there were three issues across the extended Queensland raceway stay. There was the locked exhaust cam Ryland Gray in race one, there was the valve train failure for Matt Payne in race three that cost him the sprint cup, and then an issue for Brock Fendi on the final lap of the test day on Tuesday. Team still hasn't revealed any great details of that. Then you the Toyota side. We had the mass engine changes with four cars being fitted with the B spec engine on the Thursday evening before the race meeting started. And then by Sunday night, they were all putting, or by Monday, they were all putting A-Spec engines back in for the test on Tuesday, ⁓ after that bottom end bearing failure for Chaz Mosted in race three. And then there was another issue for Mosted's A-Spec engine during the ride date, which saw the team park that car. Like, yeah, there's gotta be some nervous people on both those sides of the of the manufacturer divide right now, surely. Yeah, and obviously we've seen some issues with the with the Ford over the last couple of years, but ⁓ yeah it is ⁓ amazing to see that level of trauma now on the Eve of the Enduros. It's not quite clear why that stuff has happened now, but ⁓ I feel like the the zoom out is that these engines particularly the Ford and the GM for Gen 3 were really done to a price. Yeah. And they were also done under the premise that it was gonna be paddle shift and not the full mechanical stick shift with drivers zinging it to nine thousand revs on the downchange, which is always gonna break stuff if it's not if it's not really, really durable. So I do fear that this will bring the paddle shift conversation back. Don't say it. Don't say it Stefan. I don't want to hear it. I do not want to hear it. We haven't had that many engine failures. It's fine. You gotta keep the ⁓ you gotta keep the three pedals and you gotta keep the the stick shift. Let's not even have that conversation. I'm totally with you and I'd even say that ⁓ actually having some mechanical unreliability adds not a bad show. Yeah, it it adds a real variable, but gee, I'm glad I'm not the one paying for all this stuff and especially ⁓ When you look at what's happening with the Toyota. Like there's a lot of money being torn up in all that. All right, now for some news from our good friends at Authentic Collectibles. Authentic Collectibles is excited to announce two limited edition models celebrating Brock Feeney's back-to-back Repco sprint cup championship wins. His 88 Red Bull Ampole Racing Ford Mustang GT will be produced in both 118 and 143 scale. Feeney has been impressive so far in the 2026 season, scoring race wins, polls, and podiums in Triple Eight Race Engineering's first year back with Ford. At the Century Batteries Ipswich Super 440, he secured his second consecutive Sprint Cup championship in race 28, fittingly during his 150th Supercast race start. 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We obviously saw some high profile failures it at MSR. ⁓ Aaron Seaton had an issue on the Friday of the race meeting, and then Harry Jones ⁓ crashed during the test because of brake failure ⁓ at the end of the long run down to turn three. But even beyond that, there wasn't a single team that didn't seem to have some sort of issue with with brake pads, whether they were breaking up or ⁓ getting long pedal and all that sort of stuff. It seems that, you know, the the kind of hope at least is that it was just a bad batch issue, right? Yeah, so the Harry Jones one we believe was some level of hydraulic issue. We don't actually know, and they did take the car straight back to to the shop. They didn't try to diagnose it there, but Harry did say he felt like a brake line had sheared off or or something like that. Yeah. And we do know that ⁓ The teams run the ⁓ quick disconnect brake line system for the injuros and they were going through he wasn't on an outlap, but they were going through their pit stop practice cycles of three or four laps and then ⁓ doing those changes at the time. ⁓ he was actually into turn six, ⁓ which is has less runoff. Yes. It has left less runoff than three. And I feel like again it sort of does ⁓ shine a bit of a spotlight. on the safety there. ⁓ the the property kind of ends there. There's not a lot they can do, but ⁓ they do barrel in there bloody quickly. Yeah, it's a quicker it's a quicker run into there than you think because the exit speed of five is actually fast. Like you c you're actually building speed back up through that four five complex. So you're carrying a fair bit of speed on the way out of five and it's quite a short straight, but your momentum coming onto it is quick. Yeah, and I believe one of the Toyota's may have ⁓ made the tire wall down there at six during the ride day, which ⁓ raised a couple of eyebrows. But ⁓ going back to the pads, yeah, we saw ⁓ some teams scrubbing pads on the ground at the at the test day, ⁓ which sort of created a bunch of conversations about what's going on here and there you couldn't find a team that hadn't had an issue of some sort during the weekend with pads cracking or falling apart. So the theory was there was some sort of issue with the with the bonding agent in there somewhere. ⁓ and there's yeah, been ⁓ some conversations with the with the supplier obviously off the back of that trying to investigate whether it is a batch issue or what's going on. Yeah, because if we think back to Tasmania, there was brake pad testing that went on there on the Monday after the race meeting. And the kind of idea there was to try and, you know, can we get to a point where we don't have to be thinking about break changes during the Bathus 1000 and that sort of stuff. But obviously whatever happened there didn't yield the the result needed to ⁓ to to implement a change because we haven't really heard anything about what came out of that test. And we're still using the same pads as before and and then there's this batch issue on on top of that. Yeah, that's interesting too because ⁓ Supercars wanted to have a break package with Gen 3 that could go through the whole Bathus 1000 without a change. And ⁓ that hasn't happened and now they did do that break tested Tassie ⁓ trying to find a package that can go all the way through. But again, it's it's one of the the beauties of the race that it's part of it. So ⁓ yeah, I I personally wouldn't really like to see it go. Fair enough. All right, I think we're going to leave it there for now, given it is Friday afternoon. What's happening around the motorsport world this week? Not too much. We might actually have a bit of a quiet weekend this weekend, Stefan. There's not a heap going on out there. I'd vote for that. Yep. All right. That's let's definitely do that. But we will still have plenty of content on speedcafe.com. So make sure you do stay tuned to the website because we still got plenty of stuff out of Queensland and and there's ⁓ I assume some NASCAR and and MotoGP and some other stuff going on around the world. So we'll have all of that covered. And then full credit to the noise will be back in this podcast feed on Tuesday morning.