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O-Zone Podcast: Hall of Fame voting process · The Jacksonville Jaguars Official Podcast Network

0:09
Speaker 1: Welcome to the ozone Podcast, presented by by Star Credit Union,
0:14
Speaker 1: featuring Jaguar Senior writer John Osian and executive producer Dave
0:18
Speaker 1: to Candice. This week's topic it's it's a little different.
0:22
Speaker 1: We're not doing in it own podcast every week. We're
0:25
Speaker 1: doing one this week because Hall of Fame finalists voting
0:29
Speaker 1: is next Tuesday's earlier this year the news What's January nine? Keee?
0:33
Speaker 1: Rather than the Super Bowl because of COVID and our format. Today,
0:37
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk to four people intimately involved in the
0:41
Speaker 1: Tony Basselli former Jaguars left tackle Tony Boselli discussion for
0:45
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame. He's in his fifth year as
0:49
Speaker 1: a finalist. I believe he's been a top ten guy
0:53
Speaker 1: the last three years. He's been close. I believe he
0:56
Speaker 1: still has momentum. But I wanted to get thoughts this
0:58
Speaker 1: week from four keep people. One of them is Pete Prisco,
1:02
Speaker 1: who doesn't have a vote CBS Sports, but as a
1:06
Speaker 1: former Florida Times Union writer along with me who covered Bisselli,
1:11
Speaker 1: he has been integral in talking to voters over the
1:14
Speaker 1: years and pushing Tony's candidacy. So I want to get
1:17
Speaker 1: his thoughts. Sam Cavaris, who is Tony's presenter in the
1:21
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, Peter King from NBC, and Jim Trotter
1:25
Speaker 1: from the NFL Network, both of whom had good thoughts.
1:30
Speaker 1: The last three are all voters. They all had good
1:32
Speaker 1: thoughts on Tony's chances. The dynamics of it. It's a
1:36
Speaker 1: story we have covered strongly and closely for three or
1:39
Speaker 1: four years now, and some of what you hear is
1:41
Speaker 1: going to be a little bit of repetition. We wanted
1:44
Speaker 1: to give people the idea or the feel for the
1:47
Speaker 1: entire process going in. So without further ado, this week
1:50
Speaker 1: those own podcast, Tony Basselli's Hall of Fame Chances. All right,
1:54
Speaker 1: one welcome in Pete Prisco now, and really no introduction
1:57
Speaker 1: to Jaguars fans is necessary. With Pete. He's the historical,
2:03
Speaker 1: current expert on the Jags, knows what's going on with
2:06
Speaker 1: his team. But today we're talking about Tony Basselli and Pete.
2:09
Speaker 1: I know we've had this conversation it seems like a
2:12
Speaker 1: million times now, but four or five times leading into this.
2:15
Speaker 1: I get the feeling, and we said it before, but
2:19
Speaker 1: I legitimately get the feeling that could be Tony's year
2:21
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons, but talk to me first
2:24
Speaker 1: about the offensive line dynamic, how that could work for him. Yeah,
2:28
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, I've said it before. I
2:30
Speaker 1: thought last year. I really felt last year was the year.
2:32
Speaker 1: I was hopeful the year before that, but last year
2:34
Speaker 1: I thought it was going to happen and it didn't.
2:36
Speaker 1: And I know he was really disappointed last year because
2:39
Speaker 1: he felt it was going to happen. But with the
2:41
Speaker 1: fact that Hutchinson went in last year, you know, you
2:43
Speaker 1: put a center in the year before, you put a
2:46
Speaker 1: guard in last year. Now it's time to put the
2:48
Speaker 1: tackle that should be in. And by the way, you
2:50
Speaker 1: should have gone in before those two anyways. And and
2:52
Speaker 1: they're great players, don't get me wrong. I know Steve
2:54
Speaker 1: very well. I thought Steven Tony both should have gone
2:57
Speaker 1: in together last year. But now that you put a
3:00
Speaker 1: guard in with Steve Hutchinson, I don't think you come
3:02
Speaker 1: back and put another guard in in Alan Fanica when
3:05
Speaker 1: you look at the offensive line room, so I think
3:08
Speaker 1: they cleared the tackle position and Tony will be the
3:11
Speaker 1: last tackle to go in for a long time because
3:13
Speaker 1: you know who's up next. Joe Thomas it's gonna be
3:16
Speaker 1: a while for him. So I think this is a
3:18
Speaker 1: good situation for Tony to be in, mainly because he
3:21
Speaker 1: deserves to be in, but b because I think they
3:23
Speaker 1: put a guard in last year. I think people who
3:26
Speaker 1: follow this, no, you're not a voter, but that's almost
3:29
Speaker 1: only in name only, in terms of you know everybody
3:32
Speaker 1: on the committee pretty much, or know him as well
3:34
Speaker 1: as anybody. And you've had probably more conversations about Tony
3:38
Speaker 1: than I would guess anybody who's on the committee vibe
3:42
Speaker 1: better this year on that front, or is it hard
3:44
Speaker 1: to tell? I mean, we've been it because we've been
3:46
Speaker 1: burned by this conversation before. Yeah, we've been burned. And
3:50
Speaker 1: you know, I'm almost to the point now where my
3:53
Speaker 1: stuff that I've done and I'm gonna reach out to
3:54
Speaker 1: a bunch of them again and try and bang them again.
3:57
Speaker 1: But I'm almost to the point where they're getting tired
4:00
Speaker 1: of me. And and so yeah, well that that's you know,
4:04
Speaker 1: that goes without saying, oh, you know that. But you know,
4:07
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure I should be doing much more
4:10
Speaker 1: than what I've already done, because I think it gets
4:12
Speaker 1: to the point where you're annoying, and once you get annoying,
4:15
Speaker 1: then they start, you know, blocking you out. So I
4:19
Speaker 1: might hit a couple of guys it's weirdos because this
4:22
Speaker 1: year it's gonna be virtual, and so I won't see
4:24
Speaker 1: a lot of guys at the super Bowl. You know
4:26
Speaker 1: we're going, but I imagine the majority of voters are
4:30
Speaker 1: not gonna go, and so it's gonna be hard to
4:32
Speaker 1: get in contact. You got to do with an email
4:34
Speaker 1: and text and that kind of thing. So, uh, it'll
4:36
Speaker 1: be a little bit different. But I think the fact
4:39
Speaker 1: that he's been in that room and been so close
4:41
Speaker 1: so many times, I don't think there's any question that
4:44
Speaker 1: alignment is going in this year. And I think the
4:46
Speaker 1: reality is they'll look at and say, hey, we put
4:48
Speaker 1: a guard in last year. It's not like this guard
4:53
Speaker 1: is so much head and shoulders above the tackle. So
4:55
Speaker 1: put Tony in. And I think, you know, not to
4:57
Speaker 1: say he doesn't deserve it, because you know how I
4:58
Speaker 1: feel about that. I think he's one of the graades
5:00
Speaker 1: of all time at that position. But I just think
5:02
Speaker 1: that when when smarter minds get in that room and
5:05
Speaker 1: they realized they put a guard in last year, you're
5:06
Speaker 1: not gonna go back to back guards. You're closer to
5:09
Speaker 1: the process than I am. But we've talked about it
5:11
Speaker 1: so much, and we talked to some of the same
5:13
Speaker 1: people who were in the room a lot. There's an
5:16
Speaker 1: education process, and it sounds weird to think, but there
5:19
Speaker 1: is an education process with the Hall of Fame meaning
5:22
Speaker 1: guy's play, and then they sort of get forgotten about,
5:26
Speaker 1: and the committee goes back and sort of studies them again,
5:29
Speaker 1: and the and they research it, and that's what the
5:32
Speaker 1: room is about. It's what the process is about. I
5:34
Speaker 1: get the idea that the room is now completely educated
5:38
Speaker 1: on Tony, whereas maybe four years they weren't. There were
5:42
Speaker 1: still some guys who were like, well, how good was he? Uh?
5:47
Speaker 1: There are times when you hear voters talk about well,
5:50
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure last year, but after listening now, I
5:52
Speaker 1: am sure on Tony. It feels like this process eventually
5:56
Speaker 1: will help him because more guys will understand how good
6:00
Speaker 1: was it was a long way the way of saying it,
6:02
Speaker 1: But I wonder if there's an element of that. No,
6:04
Speaker 1: there's definitely an element of that. And I think the
6:07
Speaker 1: other thing is is the lineman each had cannibalized each
6:09
Speaker 1: other as you've gone through the process and and so
6:11
Speaker 1: now it's just a matter of just two of them,
6:13
Speaker 1: so it won't be as much of a split, because look,
6:16
Speaker 1: let's be real about it. A guy in Nashville, you know,
6:20
Speaker 1: paulka Arsk you hows to vote, is gonna vote for
6:23
Speaker 1: Kevin Mai or Steve Hutchinson as it gets through the
6:25
Speaker 1: selection process before he votes for Tony Boselli because he's
6:28
Speaker 1: their guy. The guys in New York, the voting block
6:31
Speaker 1: in New York, they'll vote for Kevin Moi because he's
6:34
Speaker 1: their guy. And so when you get down to the finals,
6:37
Speaker 1: those guys are gonna get their votes and it's gonna
6:39
Speaker 1: split the split the vote up a little bit. So
6:41
Speaker 1: now with only two it becomes Okay, you have Pittsburgh
6:45
Speaker 1: who vote Fanica. You might have Arizona who will vote Fanica.
6:49
Speaker 1: But then you got Jacksonville will vote Tony. So it's
6:51
Speaker 1: not as big of a difference. And I think that
6:54
Speaker 1: will help him in the process because the football guys
6:56
Speaker 1: in that room know how great he was. And the
6:58
Speaker 1: football guys in that room either have lied along the way,
7:01
Speaker 1: which I doubt they have to me and to him
7:03
Speaker 1: because I know a lot of them tell him this
7:05
Speaker 1: is the year, this is the year. So I do
7:07
Speaker 1: believe this will be the year for Tony and it
7:09
Speaker 1: should be the year for Tony. Well, what the football
7:12
Speaker 1: guys don't lie about is I think I think for
7:14
Speaker 1: three straight years he's been top ten. If the reporting
7:17
Speaker 1: out of that is accurate, and and it usually is,
7:20
Speaker 1: usually guys who are in the top ten eventually get
7:23
Speaker 1: in because of what you say, Guys that other people
7:27
Speaker 1: are voting for sort of fall out. It's a weird process.
7:30
Speaker 1: It's not a great process. I respect it because I
7:34
Speaker 1: know the people in the room and I know how
7:36
Speaker 1: much they care about it. I so I've always thought
7:39
Speaker 1: there's there's probably no perfect process, but this is probably
7:43
Speaker 1: the best process. Do you agree with that or is
7:46
Speaker 1: there a better process? No, I think there's a better process.
7:49
Speaker 1: I think you need more football guys, general managers, that
7:54
Speaker 1: type of person in the room. I don't think you
7:57
Speaker 1: should have the vote for lifetime. This isn't the Supreme Court.
8:00
Speaker 1: This is voting for the Hall of Fame, and I
8:02
Speaker 1: think they should open it up to more people. Um,
8:04
Speaker 1: you know, you can get blocks of people in there
8:06
Speaker 1: to block, you know, vote block against the guy or
8:08
Speaker 1: with the guy, and help a guy, and you do
8:09
Speaker 1: me a favor, and I'll do you a favor. I
8:11
Speaker 1: don't like that. And I've heard many a story of
8:13
Speaker 1: that going on. You help me get my guy in
8:15
Speaker 1: the next year when your guys on, I'll help you
8:17
Speaker 1: get your guy in. That's not the way it should be.
8:19
Speaker 1: You should be able to do your work, do your
8:21
Speaker 1: due diligence, be due diligence, all your due diligence, I
8:24
Speaker 1: should say, and then come to your conclusion on your own.
8:27
Speaker 1: You shouldn't have to go in there and make it politics.
8:30
Speaker 1: And and uh, you know, I'll trade you this if
8:32
Speaker 1: you give me this next year, I'll give you that
8:34
Speaker 1: next year. This guy's coming up. That's garbage. And you
8:37
Speaker 1: know I used to want to be in that room.
8:38
Speaker 1: You know that. I used to always want to be
8:40
Speaker 1: in the room and probably should have been in the room.
8:42
Speaker 1: Now I don't want to be in the room. I
8:44
Speaker 1: really don't. And and and I don't want to be
8:46
Speaker 1: involved in that. I don't like the whole process of
8:49
Speaker 1: the way it's handled. I'd be the first one to
8:50
Speaker 1: tell those guys. I've told them all anyways. And It's
8:53
Speaker 1: not just because Tony can't get in. It's just I've
8:55
Speaker 1: told him I think the process stinks. I think they
8:57
Speaker 1: need to open it up to more people. They need
8:59
Speaker 1: to not make it for lifetime lifetime you know, voting
9:02
Speaker 1: and and go from there. I mean, am I wrong?
9:05
Speaker 1: Is Vito Stellino still a voter? Yeah? He was last year?
9:08
Speaker 1: And and and you know, look, I love Vito. Vito
9:10
Speaker 1: was one of the original football guys. But Vito wasn't
9:13
Speaker 1: really covering the league anymore. I mean he he was
9:16
Speaker 1: basically retired, and yet he was still going in there
9:19
Speaker 1: and voting, and and so I mean I wish Vito
9:23
Speaker 1: was still a voting because he votes for Tony, so
9:24
Speaker 1: it would be a good thing. But but I'm just
9:27
Speaker 1: saying that He's not alone. There were other guys. I'm
9:29
Speaker 1: a miller another. I mean, these guys, look, they've been
9:31
Speaker 1: longtime football guys, and I get it. But open it up,
9:35
Speaker 1: widen it out. Why than that get more votes? Do
9:37
Speaker 1: it in a different way. Uh, don't let politics play
9:40
Speaker 1: into it. And I'm a big believer that it does.
9:44
Speaker 1: Final question, Uh, handicap Jimmy and Fred. I wasn't angry
9:51
Speaker 1: last year when Fred Taylor didn't get elected or didn't
9:54
Speaker 1: make the final fifteen. I'm not angry this year that
9:57
Speaker 1: he's not getting in the Hall, but I think it's
10:00
Speaker 1: ludicrous that he's not top fifteen. I know there's gonna
10:02
Speaker 1: be a process with Fred because he he's a borderline guy,
10:06
Speaker 1: but he should be in the top fifteen. Fred should
10:09
Speaker 1: be in the room. And then once you get in
10:10
Speaker 1: the room, it becomes a conversation and you can get debated,
10:12
Speaker 1: and and look, Fred should be in the Hall of Fame. Fred,
10:15
Speaker 1: There's there's no doubt in my mind. And Tony goes
10:17
Speaker 1: in this year, Fred should be become the push. Fred
10:20
Speaker 1: should be in the Hall of Fame. There are running backs,
10:22
Speaker 1: many running backs in the league that are in the
10:23
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame that weren't better than Fred Taylor. The
10:25
Speaker 1: guy was great. He was phenomenal. I mean, look, if
10:28
Speaker 1: Veteran James is a Hall of Famer, Fred Taylor is
10:29
Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer, If Jerome Bettis is a Hall
10:32
Speaker 1: of Famer, Fred Taylors a Hall of Famer. If Curtis
10:34
Speaker 1: Martin's a Hall of Famer, Fred Taylor is a Hall
10:35
Speaker 1: of Famer. So put him in. But let's get Tony
10:39
Speaker 1: in this year, and then Fred will come back, and
10:41
Speaker 1: then Jimmy's case is gonna be tougher because you can
10:44
Speaker 1: make a real case for Jimmy being in there with
10:46
Speaker 1: those same group of guys, the Holtz and the Bruces
10:49
Speaker 1: and everybody else, because his numbers were just as good,
10:51
Speaker 1: almost as as good as there's and right with them.
10:54
Speaker 1: He didn't win a super Bowl, and you know, had
10:56
Speaker 1: they not blown the game to the Titans and gone
10:58
Speaker 1: to the Atlanta and be at the Rams, then maybe
11:01
Speaker 1: he's the guy getting pushed rather than those two. So
11:04
Speaker 1: but Jimmy, I think it first, it goes Tony goes
11:07
Speaker 1: in this year, Fred gets into the fifteen next year,
11:10
Speaker 1: then Fred probably will get in, and then Jimmy becomes
11:13
Speaker 1: part of the conversation after that. I agree, the super
11:16
Speaker 1: Bowl not getting there that year, that ties more to
11:20
Speaker 1: me into the Hall than anything else. I think Jacksonville, Carolina, Atlanta,
11:24
Speaker 1: Tampa teams like that are always gonna struggle a little bit.
11:27
Speaker 1: But if if you make super Bowls, then that sort
11:31
Speaker 1: of pushes the market thing out of it a little
11:33
Speaker 1: bit to me, which is weird because like Calvin Johnson's
11:35
Speaker 1: up this year. John So is he first ballot Hall
11:37
Speaker 1: of Famer? You kidding me? He didn't play, only played
11:39
Speaker 1: under thirty eight games, and they never won a playoff game.
11:42
Speaker 1: He never won a playoff game. And then automatically Calvin
11:45
Speaker 1: john look at his numbers compared to Jimmy. Calvin Johnson
11:47
Speaker 1: had some great season. Jimmy had some great seasons too.
11:50
Speaker 1: So yeah, you're right there there there. The market hurts
11:52
Speaker 1: not going to Super Bowl, which you know, I get
11:55
Speaker 1: tired of that because there's been great players who played
11:57
Speaker 1: on bad teams. And and you know, not that Tony
12:00
Speaker 1: and Jimmy and and and Fred were because they played
12:03
Speaker 1: on some good teams. But there have been great players
12:05
Speaker 1: who played on bad teams. Should they be penalized because
12:07
Speaker 1: their teams stunk but they were great? No? Yeah, it
12:11
Speaker 1: usually when your borderline and Beselli shouldn't have been borderline,
12:16
Speaker 1: but the longevity sort of made on borderline. And it's
12:19
Speaker 1: almost like when there's a reason to not vote, that's
12:23
Speaker 1: when the playoffs stuff and the market stuff sort of
12:25
Speaker 1: comes into play. If if you follow me, Yeah, and
12:27
Speaker 1: here's the other higher standard, and I'll give you another one. Um,
12:30
Speaker 1: you know, if we want to talk about using Super
12:32
Speaker 1: bowls and wins and everything else. All right, John Lynch
12:35
Speaker 1: is up against the Jacksonville kid who I know very well,
12:37
Speaker 1: Leroy Butler, who's a finalist. Leroy Butler was a better
12:40
Speaker 1: player than John Lynch in my mind. But not only that.
12:43
Speaker 1: Tampa Bay has Warren Sapp and Derek Brooks off that defense,
12:48
Speaker 1: the Green Bay defense which was really really good. That yeah, yeah,
12:51
Speaker 1: everybody remembers far but that defense has Reggie White. We'll
12:54
Speaker 1: put the next guy in. That's Leroy Butler. You know
12:57
Speaker 1: he was the first guy. Leroy Butler should be the
13:00
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame as well. My ideal class this year
13:03
Speaker 1: is the way it should be Peyton Manning slam dunk.
13:06
Speaker 1: It should be Charles Woodson slam dunk. Tony BASSELLI should
13:10
Speaker 1: be a slam dunk this year. Uh. Then Leroy Butler
13:14
Speaker 1: would be my other guy. And then the last guy
13:16
Speaker 1: put in, I put in Tory Holt before I put
13:19
Speaker 1: in Calvin Johnson, just because I don't think Calvin Johnson's
13:21
Speaker 1: the first ballot Hall of Famer. Wow, Tory holder, Calvin Johnson.
13:25
Speaker 1: I think I think the Calvin Johnson is going to
13:27
Speaker 1: be less of a slam dunk than people think. It
13:29
Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me if he didn't get in, but we'll see.
13:32
Speaker 1: Just some people say, Jared Allen this year, the first
13:34
Speaker 1: time up in the room. No, no, there's been a
13:38
Speaker 1: weird trend towards first ballot guys getting put on first ballot,
13:44
Speaker 1: way too quickly for me. But that's that's another point, Pete.
13:48
Speaker 1: I won't take up any more your time. I appreciate
13:50
Speaker 1: you doing this. Hopefully we're talking after Selly gets in
13:53
Speaker 1: this year, but thank you very much. You gotta take
13:55
Speaker 1: care of oh all right. I want to welcome in
13:59
Speaker 1: Sam Cavars to this week's Ozone podcast, which is completely
14:03
Speaker 1: Tony Biselli Hall of Fame centric. Obviously most people know
14:06
Speaker 1: the reason we have Sam, long time Hall of Fame voter,
14:10
Speaker 1: significantly right now, long time Hall of Fame presenter for
14:15
Speaker 1: Tony BISSELLI and Sam, I appreciate you doing this, and
14:19
Speaker 1: how are you. I'm well, John, and I hope you're
14:21
Speaker 1: well if you enjoy the holidays. I had two of
14:24
Speaker 1: my grandchildren um here at the house that morning, a
14:26
Speaker 1: two year old and four year old, so they went
14:28
Speaker 1: through like a buzz saw. I mean, there was wrapping,
14:30
Speaker 1: paper flying, and you know it was over that its
14:34
Speaker 1: but but that was fun. Always great to spend time
14:37
Speaker 1: with you, John. People don't know you and I have
14:39
Speaker 1: known each other in the most forty years now, so yeah,
14:42
Speaker 1: it's been a while. It's been a while, A good
14:44
Speaker 1: forty sam, a good forty years, very good. Absolutely. I
14:49
Speaker 1: think the main thing right up front is the you know,
14:52
Speaker 1: next Tuesday, the nineteen, we're gonna have a Zoom call. Now,
14:57
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like everybody's done either Microsoft
15:00
Speaker 1: teams or Zoom or or whatever. So you know what
15:04
Speaker 1: that's like. You know what that's like. With three, four, five, eight, ten,
15:09
Speaker 1: We're gonna have forty eight people on this call, plus
15:13
Speaker 1: you know the Dave Baker who runs the Hall of Fame,
15:16
Speaker 1: and Salim who is the communications director. So now you're
15:20
Speaker 1: talking about fifty people on a call. Um, I'll get
15:24
Speaker 1: five minutes to present Tony's uh, Tony Tony's case, and
15:28
Speaker 1: this will be the fifth consecutive year I've done that,
15:31
Speaker 1: and it's important to vary your presentation every year. But
15:35
Speaker 1: I think a non skilled player, uh has a bit
15:40
Speaker 1: of it dampens their opportunity. This that's one of the reasons,
15:44
Speaker 1: I think because you don't have this idea in your
15:46
Speaker 1: head of what this guy looked like when he was
15:49
Speaker 1: at his best. UM the Jaguars have are sending out
15:54
Speaker 1: video clips of Basselli playing because, believe it or not,
15:56
Speaker 1: of the forty eight people, it might be half half
15:59
Speaker 1: of the committee that didn't see Tony play. So I
16:02
Speaker 1: do think it dampens his chances. I think, if not
16:05
Speaker 1: this year next and a variety of reasons that will
16:08
Speaker 1: that that will continue to talk about. But the zoom
16:11
Speaker 1: call is going to be a strange thing. Five minute
16:14
Speaker 1: presentation followed by UM questions and answers or comments. And
16:20
Speaker 1: what's interesting to me was last year we talked about
16:23
Speaker 1: Bisselli longer than everybody but one other finalists. So so
16:27
Speaker 1: there's some interest, and there there's some some thought process.
16:31
Speaker 1: And I've never heard anybody saying, no, you know, I've
16:35
Speaker 1: been a numbers game for Tony. Once they let Terrell
16:37
Speaker 1: Davis and Kenny easily in. Davis played seventy eight games
16:40
Speaker 1: and easily played Tony played ninety seven games. Once he
16:44
Speaker 1: let those two guys in, the brevity of his career
16:47
Speaker 1: became a non issue, literally because it's no longer. You
16:51
Speaker 1: can't really consider that any longer. Just his greatness in
16:54
Speaker 1: the in the time that he played, and there's not
16:57
Speaker 1: anybody who doesn't think that he was the best left
17:00
Speaker 1: tackle in the game in his era. When studying this,
17:05
Speaker 1: I always look for signs, I woulda everybody does. But
17:08
Speaker 1: to me, the best sign for Tony to me is
17:13
Speaker 1: my understanding is he's been in the top ten I
17:16
Speaker 1: guess all four years or three years, but in the
17:18
Speaker 1: top ten a lot. And usually guys who get that
17:21
Speaker 1: many votes that means a lot of people think their
17:24
Speaker 1: Hall of famers and it's usually a good sign for
17:26
Speaker 1: eventually getting in. I would think the long discussion last year,
17:31
Speaker 1: I'm assuming I've never been in the room, and you
17:33
Speaker 1: have that A lot of guys who aren't going to
17:35
Speaker 1: get in never get that sort of discussion. And am
17:39
Speaker 1: I reading that right? Absolutely would be seven year on
17:42
Speaker 1: the committee and thanks to Wayne we were for appointing
17:45
Speaker 1: me to that because it's been one of the true
17:48
Speaker 1: honors of my career and such an eye opening thing.
17:51
Speaker 1: Um Uh, you know, I take a lot of heat
17:54
Speaker 1: on social media for Tony not getting in, which is
17:57
Speaker 1: only amusing when when you know it actually happens in
18:01
Speaker 1: the room, and then you hear what people say. I mean,
18:03
Speaker 1: like like I'm supposed to stand there like a you know,
18:06
Speaker 1: a Baptist preacher and with fire and brimstone and convince
18:08
Speaker 1: these guys. I mean, this is these are forty seven
18:11
Speaker 1: now of the real uh qualified people in UM in
18:17
Speaker 1: football journalism, people who know what they're talking about. You'd
18:20
Speaker 1: recognize most of the people in the room. The dynamic
18:23
Speaker 1: of the committee has changed. John, It's kind of fascinating.
18:25
Speaker 1: I mean when when I first went on the committee,
18:29
Speaker 1: I used to sit between Firman Bisher and Edwin Pope.
18:33
Speaker 1: Tom McEwen would sit there, John Steadman from the Baltimore Sun,
18:37
Speaker 1: Will McDonough from the Boston Globe, Jack Buck from CBS Sports.
18:42
Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was who's who the pantheon
18:45
Speaker 1: of of sports at the time, which which was a
18:48
Speaker 1: little different time because there was no social media. So
18:51
Speaker 1: these were the real influencers of of what sports thought was.
18:56
Speaker 1: The committee at the time had an average age of
18:58
Speaker 1: about fifty. I think Paul Zimmerman, who of course was
19:02
Speaker 1: kind of the godfather of the Hall of Fame. Uh,
19:05
Speaker 1: he did a survey and one of my first five
19:07
Speaker 1: years on the committee, the average as was like fifty eight. Um.
19:12
Speaker 1: The committee is skewed now much younger than it used
19:16
Speaker 1: to be, which means that the emphasis has has gotten
19:20
Speaker 1: on statistics and what you saw on the ESPN as
19:26
Speaker 1: opposed to what you saw in person, uh, the eye
19:30
Speaker 1: test that a lot of guys uh kind of use
19:34
Speaker 1: and uh and whether or not somebody has in their
19:39
Speaker 1: mind Hall of Fame credentials. Now it's a much much
19:42
Speaker 1: bigger emphasis on statistics. And one of the reasons is
19:46
Speaker 1: because there are so many more statistics that are available
19:48
Speaker 1: these days. So it's a it's a it's a strange
19:52
Speaker 1: it's not a strange process. It's a different process, much
19:55
Speaker 1: different than I think anybody could tell. And when any
19:57
Speaker 1: time you get you know, when I first went on
19:59
Speaker 1: the comittee, there were thirty two members. Now there are
20:03
Speaker 1: forty eight. They've expanded it with at large members. As
20:06
Speaker 1: with any group of people, you can feel the momentum
20:09
Speaker 1: shift in a room one way or another. That first
20:12
Speaker 1: year that Tony was a finalist, it was It's almost
20:14
Speaker 1: always an introductory year for anybody who's not somebody like
20:18
Speaker 1: Peyton Manning who's gonna get in this year, right, So
20:21
Speaker 1: it's kind of an introductory year and people do their
20:23
Speaker 1: homework and they look around and go, huh, you know,
20:25
Speaker 1: I didn't realize he was that good or or man,
20:28
Speaker 1: I mean that that that's really something else. And then
20:31
Speaker 1: then it starts to get you. You hate this phrase,
20:34
Speaker 1: but you drill down even further into their career and
20:37
Speaker 1: what they did, peers said about him, what the coaches
20:40
Speaker 1: said about him. Um you never bring up, by the way,
20:43
Speaker 1: what teammates say about him, because all teammates say they're great.
20:46
Speaker 1: So it's um uh, it's it's a process. That's interesting
20:51
Speaker 1: because for some players there is there is negative commentary.
20:56
Speaker 1: I mean, guys will say this guy is not a
20:59
Speaker 1: Hall of Famer, you know, I mean, and and there
21:02
Speaker 1: there's some heated discussion in there that that discussion about
21:06
Speaker 1: basely has never been that early on, it was about
21:09
Speaker 1: the brevity of his career. Once Davison easily were admitted
21:13
Speaker 1: to the Hall, that went away. Now it's only been
21:16
Speaker 1: a numbers game, and how he compares to guys who
21:20
Speaker 1: are now in the Hall, like Steve Hutchinson, Kevin Mauai.
21:25
Speaker 1: This year, Alan Fanica is on the ballot and and
21:29
Speaker 1: Tony's on the ballot. UM, So so there's you know
21:33
Speaker 1: there there there's been a numbers game. I mean, I
21:37
Speaker 1: think one year to u terall Owens took his spot.
21:40
Speaker 1: I really do. I mean I really believe that and
21:45
Speaker 1: and so so you're right, I mean, you can get
21:47
Speaker 1: that feel in that room. But there's there's um. There's
21:50
Speaker 1: certainly a sentiment that Bissell has Hall of Fame credentials,
21:54
Speaker 1: which class he gets into, and if you make it
21:57
Speaker 1: as a as a finalist one of the fifteen kind
22:00
Speaker 1: about a chance to eventually get into the Hall. The
22:04
Speaker 1: fact that Tony has been a top ten guy for
22:06
Speaker 1: the past three years, he has an awful lot of support.
22:10
Speaker 1: That first year, I don't think he made the top ten.
22:14
Speaker 1: Starting with the second year, he's made the top ten
22:16
Speaker 1: every time since. And the the idea ever since the
22:22
Speaker 1: four line put another backstory. At one point, the voters
22:27
Speaker 1: and many voters I talked to, believe there was four
22:32
Speaker 1: linemen who needed to get in, which was Bess, Sally, Hutchinson,
22:35
Speaker 1: Fantica and Mawai. And there was always this theory among
22:40
Speaker 1: the very respected long time voters I talked to that
22:44
Speaker 1: all four of those guys were going to get in.
22:46
Speaker 1: It was just a matter of how many people were
22:48
Speaker 1: going to vote for multiple linemen in one year. So
22:51
Speaker 1: that's where I agree with you stand. From people I
22:53
Speaker 1: talked to, it feels like Tony sometime in the next
22:56
Speaker 1: couple of years, him and Fanica will go in at
23:00
Speaker 1: some point in some order in the next two or
23:03
Speaker 1: three years. Now, it's not a guarantee, as Tony's quick
23:06
Speaker 1: to tell you, Hey, with this process, there's no guarantee,
23:09
Speaker 1: but to me it bodes well. I've had a feeling,
23:12
Speaker 1: even though some observers don't feel it, that he's gained momentum,
23:17
Speaker 1: and there continues to be each year there's more positive
23:21
Speaker 1: talk because his candidate city is so strong. You're right, John,
23:26
Speaker 1: he has gained momentum, and it's because so many not
23:30
Speaker 1: so many, but enough of the committee didn't see him
23:33
Speaker 1: play have rightfully leaned on some other older committee members
23:38
Speaker 1: to ask and then have done their own homework to
23:41
Speaker 1: look at it. And when you look at Basselli's career
23:44
Speaker 1: in comparison to you know, I've called it the Golden
23:47
Speaker 1: Age of tackles, and you've got you've got basically five
23:50
Speaker 1: tackles in in that era, and you can put six
23:53
Speaker 1: in there if you add Gary Zimmerman who really were dominant,
23:58
Speaker 1: dominant players, you know, whether it's Jonathan Ogden or Willie
24:01
Speaker 1: roof uh, you know, players like that, Orlando Pace. You know,
24:06
Speaker 1: all those guys are in the hall. Walter Jones was
24:10
Speaker 1: a slam dunk Call of Famer Walter Jones War seventy
24:13
Speaker 1: one because Tony Basselli War seventy you know, I mean.
24:18
Speaker 1: Willie Roth told me that even though he wasn't even
24:21
Speaker 1: in the same conference as Tony, he used to check
24:24
Speaker 1: his game against Basselli's against Bosseli's game. Every week. He'd
24:28
Speaker 1: have the video guys cut up bassell eclipse so he
24:30
Speaker 1: could see what he's doing. All four of those guys
24:33
Speaker 1: believe that Posselli was the best of those five. And
24:36
Speaker 1: Gary's and who I talked to, said he'd never seen anybody,
24:41
Speaker 1: uh like Tony who had that kind of athleticism, that
24:44
Speaker 1: kind of footwork, who was as effective and this was
24:46
Speaker 1: important to him effective run blocking as he was pass blocking.
24:51
Speaker 1: That that those that that combination of being able to
24:54
Speaker 1: do both is so important at that left tackle position.
24:57
Speaker 1: So when you start looking at this golden age of tackles,
25:00
Speaker 1: and those guys were in well. Boselli was the best
25:03
Speaker 1: of the bunch, and I think because of the brevity
25:05
Speaker 1: of his career, he's been shoved behind other offensive lineman, which,
25:10
Speaker 1: by the way, John, I think is also completely unfair
25:14
Speaker 1: anybody who follows football and particularly football affection, Ado's no,
25:18
Speaker 1: the tackles and guards and centers are completely different positions.
25:22
Speaker 1: It be as if we were comparing safeties and cornerbacks
25:27
Speaker 1: for the same spot. It's just not the case. Safeties
25:32
Speaker 1: were completely underrepresented in the Hall for a long time.
25:35
Speaker 1: You know why, because the guys on the committee felt
25:38
Speaker 1: like safety is where they put cornerbacks when they couldn't
25:40
Speaker 1: cover guys right. But it's a it's a different position.
25:45
Speaker 1: Tackles are better athletes than anybody on the offensive line.
25:48
Speaker 1: They're the they're the best, They're they're the best athlete
25:51
Speaker 1: up there. There're a guy who has to do so
25:52
Speaker 1: many different things. And as Bill Polian told me, not
25:55
Speaker 1: to be a name dropper, but Bill is a Hall
25:57
Speaker 1: of Famer and has joint committee this year. He said
26:01
Speaker 1: to me, you know, Basselli is one of those rare
26:04
Speaker 1: guys at tackle who could handle Bruce Smith and he
26:10
Speaker 1: could handle Dwight Freeney. Two different kind of defensive ends.
26:14
Speaker 1: You know, one guy a real powerful guy with great
26:17
Speaker 1: speed and is in the hall. Another guy with unbelievable
26:20
Speaker 1: speed and shifting nous who could get things done. So
26:24
Speaker 1: when you're when you have that ability to do both
26:26
Speaker 1: of those things, you know you're one of the greats.
26:28
Speaker 1: And Tony I think really qualifies there. A lot of
26:31
Speaker 1: the young voters are sort of hung up on we've
26:34
Speaker 1: got to get this guy in first ballot, and it's
26:37
Speaker 1: sort of changed the dynamic. It used to be that
26:40
Speaker 1: it was okay, you know, and I think that changed
26:42
Speaker 1: with Terrell Owens when there was such a stink about
26:45
Speaker 1: when he got in and the reality was if you
26:48
Speaker 1: get in, you get in. But we're sort of tangenting here.
26:51
Speaker 1: But um, Michael, first ballot right, Paul horning A waited
26:57
Speaker 1: twenty five years to get into the hall. And an
27:00
Speaker 1: unbelievable number of people if if you go back and
27:02
Speaker 1: look at the list, like you said, Sam, of guys
27:05
Speaker 1: who didn't get in first ballot right the walk in
27:07
Speaker 1: guys or guys like Peyton and Tom Brady right back
27:11
Speaker 1: in the day. Anyway, we're all as much as this year.
27:17
Speaker 1: That affects this year because you've got three guys that
27:21
Speaker 1: some guys think have to go in in first ballot.
27:24
Speaker 1: Peyton Manning's gonna get elected, all right, Charles Woodson's probably
27:28
Speaker 1: gone in, Calvin Johnson, a lot of guys. I can
27:32
Speaker 1: tell you this. If Calvin Johnson played in Jacksonville and
27:36
Speaker 1: he didn't have the nickname Megatron, he might not even
27:39
Speaker 1: be on the ballot. But I mean, he is a
27:41
Speaker 1: he is a Hall of Famer. In my mind, it's
27:44
Speaker 1: not necessary to put Calvin Johnson in first year. He
27:46
Speaker 1: played nine years in the league and he was, yes,
27:49
Speaker 1: a great player and will get in. But I don't
27:52
Speaker 1: think that he needs to immediately jumped to the front
27:55
Speaker 1: of the line. But what we talked about earlier with
27:58
Speaker 1: a lot of young guys who see high lights in
28:01
Speaker 1: the in their mind and skill players making plays, and
28:05
Speaker 1: that influences their decision. Calvin Johnson and Tony Boselli. If
28:09
Speaker 1: you just look and take the fact that the the receiver
28:11
Speaker 1: and tackle very similar, Kelvin Johnson was probably the best
28:15
Speaker 1: of his position when he played, played a very short time,
28:18
Speaker 1: played in a small market. The difference between the two
28:20
Speaker 1: is that Calvin Johnson has stats and highlights, you make
28:23
Speaker 1: an argument that was probably as good. Or he's got
28:27
Speaker 1: a name. I mean that I'm telling you that I've
28:29
Speaker 1: got some nicknames for Tony, but I can't say him
28:31
Speaker 1: on the air and they would probably get him in
28:35
Speaker 1: the hall. Um. What a as much as you can share,
28:41
Speaker 1: what will your message be your five minutes? Is there
28:44
Speaker 1: a theme to it this year that's different? Is there
28:46
Speaker 1: anything you're saying different or can you share that because
28:49
Speaker 1: I know sometimes you can't. I think part part of
28:53
Speaker 1: it will be some of the things we've discussed that
28:56
Speaker 1: you know, you look at that golden age of tackles
28:58
Speaker 1: and all of those guys have told me that he
29:00
Speaker 1: was the best, the best of the bunch. When you
29:03
Speaker 1: then then you then you start to look at the
29:05
Speaker 1: All Pro teams or the Pro Bowl teams. Pro Bowl
29:08
Speaker 1: is is somewhat discounted in the meeting because it's almost
29:11
Speaker 1: a popularity contest, and it tends to lag. You know,
29:14
Speaker 1: you probably get in a year after you should have
29:16
Speaker 1: been in, and you probably stay in a year too long.
29:20
Speaker 1: But uh, BASSELLI was five times Pro Bowl tackle. More importantly,
29:25
Speaker 1: when all of these guys played together. There's like three
29:30
Speaker 1: years where they all played the All Pro team, which
29:34
Speaker 1: is what people really pay attention to. Selly was the
29:38
Speaker 1: left tackle three consecutive years. He was the only consistency
29:43
Speaker 1: at that position. The other left tackle or the other
29:46
Speaker 1: tackle position rotated among the other guys. So so it
29:52
Speaker 1: was clear, oh, man, everybody thinks this guy is the best,
29:55
Speaker 1: and then these other guys kind of fill in. So
29:58
Speaker 1: I think I think that's part of it. I think
30:01
Speaker 1: you've got to look at some there is some statistical
30:03
Speaker 1: analysis that you can do with left left tackles, rushes
30:06
Speaker 1: to his side, yards per carry, sacks allowed. Basselli ranks
30:10
Speaker 1: first or second all time, including Anthony Munio's in in
30:14
Speaker 1: that category, and certainly among his contemporaries. He was only
30:18
Speaker 1: All Decade team in the nineties. Uh he he also,
30:24
Speaker 1: And and you know, I don't know that this will
30:27
Speaker 1: be something different that I'm gonna bring up, John. What
30:30
Speaker 1: if we had the NFL draft of this, of this
30:34
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame class, Okay, and this was your pool
30:37
Speaker 1: of players, and you're gonna draft, You're gonna draft out
30:41
Speaker 1: of this, the number one pick would be Peyton Manning right, Okay,
30:47
Speaker 1: the number two pick would be Tony Boselli. All right,
30:51
Speaker 1: why because he plays a premium position that's necessary for success.
30:58
Speaker 1: None of these teams that are you know, the last
31:00
Speaker 1: eight now that are on their way, none of these
31:02
Speaker 1: teams don't have a left tackle who can't play. You know,
31:05
Speaker 1: they all have somebody up there who can play. And
31:07
Speaker 1: they all I mean, look at you know, three or
31:10
Speaker 1: three of the four teams that are well, most of
31:15
Speaker 1: the teams that are left up quarterbacks that are either
31:17
Speaker 1: going to the Hall of Fame or have a chance
31:19
Speaker 1: to get there. Breeze, Brady Rogers, Mahomes. I mean, you know,
31:24
Speaker 1: you start talking about teams of the court. So all right,
31:26
Speaker 1: Peyton Manning is the number one pick. The number two
31:29
Speaker 1: pick out of that class is Tony Baselli. And that's
31:33
Speaker 1: pretty that's pretty simple. I don't think that you can
31:36
Speaker 1: you can put guards and centers in the same category
31:41
Speaker 1: with tackles. And yes, I think Alan Fanaka is a
31:44
Speaker 1: Hall of Famer. He was one of the best guards
31:46
Speaker 1: of his era. Maybe you know, maybe the best one
31:49
Speaker 1: of the top two along with Hutch But I don't
31:52
Speaker 1: think that you can compare them. And then finally, John,
31:55
Speaker 1: when you when you look at how everybody else thinks
31:59
Speaker 1: of these guys, and it's hard to go back, go
32:01
Speaker 1: back all the way back to I mean, we're you know,
32:04
Speaker 1: we're going. We're going pretty far back now in in
32:07
Speaker 1: football history, based on how much football people see and
32:10
Speaker 1: is on television. Bill Polian was was running the Carolina Panthers,
32:15
Speaker 1: and the Panthers we're also an expansion team, and based
32:20
Speaker 1: on a coin flip, won the number one pick. Yeah,
32:24
Speaker 1: and their whole brain trust sat down and it took
32:29
Speaker 1: him a couple of weeks and they and this in
32:33
Speaker 1: this verbiage, they had to decide. Bill said, we had
32:38
Speaker 1: to decide whether we were going to take a quarterback
32:40
Speaker 1: or Tony Basselli. So so now listen to that. It's
32:44
Speaker 1: not like, oh, we had to decide whether we're gonna
32:46
Speaker 1: take a quarterback or a tackle or Carrie Collins or
32:52
Speaker 1: Tony Basselli. No, it was just a quarterback position wise,
32:56
Speaker 1: and Tony Basselli by name, because, as Tom Coughlin called him,
33:01
Speaker 1: cornerstone of a franchise, generational type talent at that position.
33:06
Speaker 1: Are you convinced, I think convinced for a while, but
33:09
Speaker 1: but more pertinent to the conversation, I'm more and more convinced.
33:16
Speaker 1: And I know people get tired of here and I
33:18
Speaker 1: say this, it's it's one year or the next. To me,
33:22
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna happen to this year and next year,
33:24
Speaker 1: just based on people I talked to. Remember, there's fifteen finalists.
33:27
Speaker 1: If they put Peyton Manning, Charles Woodson and Calvin Johnson in,
33:31
Speaker 1: that leaves two spots for twelve. Yeah, it's a brutal process.
33:36
Speaker 1: Brutal put Fanik in there all of a sudden, now
33:39
Speaker 1: you know you've got one one spot for eleven guys.
33:43
Speaker 1: John Lynch is a finalist for the sixth year, you know,
33:47
Speaker 1: I mean there there there's some talented people on there,
33:51
Speaker 1: Sam Mills, Zach Thomas, you know, Reggie Wayne, I mean
33:55
Speaker 1: were talking about guys who and like you said, have
33:58
Speaker 1: serious stats. So, uh, there's there's a small window there.
34:03
Speaker 1: I don't see a problem with putting both Fannika and
34:06
Speaker 1: Basselli in in the same year. Uh. And I'll and
34:10
Speaker 1: I'll that's one of the things I'll mention Fan and
34:13
Speaker 1: sy It's a thankless process that you have to go
34:16
Speaker 1: through each year. I know the work you put into it.
34:19
Speaker 1: I know O the voters know the work in the
34:22
Speaker 1: passion you put into it. I appreciate you talking about us.
34:26
Speaker 1: We're talking about this today with us, and I certainly
34:28
Speaker 1: wish you'd like in the process have a great five
34:31
Speaker 1: minutes on virtual zoom next week to the voters. Thanks John,
34:34
Speaker 1: great spensive time together, all right. I am pleased to
34:38
Speaker 1: be joined today by Jim Trotter, the NFL Network, a
34:42
Speaker 1: long time NFL reporter. I know him from his days
34:46
Speaker 1: in San Diego. He's been doing this a long time
34:50
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame voter, which is why we're talking to
34:53
Speaker 1: him and Jim, I think a lot of Jaguars fans.
34:56
Speaker 1: I'm sure I saw your comments regarding Tony on the
35:00
Speaker 1: NFL rollout, the finalist roll out a couple of weeks
35:03
Speaker 1: where about a week? Yes, And I'm curious, Um, have
35:07
Speaker 1: you come around on Tony or how would you describe
35:12
Speaker 1: why you feel so strongly about him as a candidate. Um,
35:16
Speaker 1: I would say that that it's probably fair to say
35:18
Speaker 1: I've come around, but I did that a few years ago.
35:21
Speaker 1: You know. Initially, when he first came in the room,
35:24
Speaker 1: I had some hesitation about the length of career and whatnot,
35:28
Speaker 1: and then I had to look in the mirror because
35:30
Speaker 1: I was one of those people who was really pushing
35:33
Speaker 1: Terrell Davis for the Hall of Fame because of how
35:36
Speaker 1: dominant he was his best postseason running back in the
35:39
Speaker 1: league's history. When you look at the numbers and his performance,
35:42
Speaker 1: and I had to ask myself, how could I support
35:45
Speaker 1: one and not the other? You know, um, Tony Boselli.
35:48
Speaker 1: When you look at his career and the people that
35:51
Speaker 1: he played against, he flat out dominated. And I'm talking
35:55
Speaker 1: about against you know, Hall of famers, current Hall of famers,
35:58
Speaker 1: and the fact that he played y one games might
36:01
Speaker 1: not sit well with some, But to me, that's not
36:04
Speaker 1: his fault. It wasn't that he walked away from the game.
36:06
Speaker 1: It wasn't that there was a deterioration and performance. It
36:09
Speaker 1: was because of an injury and surgeries that took him
36:13
Speaker 1: away from the game. So when I look at how
36:16
Speaker 1: dominant he was over that period of time, I don't
36:20
Speaker 1: think there was a better left tackle, um, you know,
36:24
Speaker 1: or a tackle I should say, um, he's the guy
36:27
Speaker 1: that that that. I just felt I couldn't be a
36:30
Speaker 1: hypocrite in support one and not the other. Does it
36:33
Speaker 1: have some I hate the word juice, but everybody uses
36:36
Speaker 1: it now, UM, some juice in the room. The fact
36:40
Speaker 1: that he was a three time All Pro at a
36:44
Speaker 1: time when it was maybe the golden era of the position,
36:48
Speaker 1: meaning you had pace, you had Walter Jones, you had
36:51
Speaker 1: guys who were at their lead level roof and for
36:55
Speaker 1: a and for a period when you talk to people
36:58
Speaker 1: back things. I did stories on it. He was the
37:00
Speaker 1: best of the best at that point until his injury.
37:04
Speaker 1: I guess that resonates in the room the more voters here, Yeah,
37:08
Speaker 1: and and and again. I just think that the one
37:11
Speaker 1: thing that has really prevented him from going in is
37:14
Speaker 1: this whole discussion about longevity, and the question that I
37:18
Speaker 1: had to ask myself as well, is the cut off
37:21
Speaker 1: point to saying someone played long enough. And obviously for
37:24
Speaker 1: every individual is going to be different. But you know, um,
37:30
Speaker 1: what he is facing is that, look, the last four
37:32
Speaker 1: tackles to go into the Hall of Fame, offensive tackles
37:35
Speaker 1: to go in the Hall of Fame. UM, in the
37:37
Speaker 1: past decade, all played East two hundred and I believe
37:41
Speaker 1: I'm doing, off the top of my head a hundred
37:42
Speaker 1: and sixty four games, and I'm yeah, and Tony obviously
37:47
Speaker 1: played you know Um, I believe it was so he was,
37:51
Speaker 1: so I think he's battling that more than anything else.
37:55
Speaker 1: And I do think the more we talk about it,
37:57
Speaker 1: the more we we shine a light on that's how
38:00
Speaker 1: dominant he was. UM during that period of time. Not
38:04
Speaker 1: only one games is not insignificant in my mind. So again,
38:10
Speaker 1: I came around on it fairly quickly, and I think
38:14
Speaker 1: others will ultimately. I do sense not that this means anything,
38:18
Speaker 1: but I do sense that there is a ground swell
38:22
Speaker 1: for him. Um. But that doesn't mean anything. I've gone
38:25
Speaker 1: into that room in the past and thought certain guys
38:28
Speaker 1: were we're going in and they didn't. So UM. All
38:32
Speaker 1: I can do is vote my conscience, and my conscience
38:34
Speaker 1: tells me that Tony Boselli is a Hall of Famer,
38:37
Speaker 1: and I'm going to continue to vote for him. I
38:40
Speaker 1: would ask you one sort of personal question that I
38:43
Speaker 1: always ask voters, the amount of time. And again, I've
38:48
Speaker 1: been close with a lot of voters over the years,
38:51
Speaker 1: and I respect to a great level of the time
38:55
Speaker 1: that you guys put into it. How much time would
38:58
Speaker 1: you say, in a given year do you spend trying
39:02
Speaker 1: to talk to former players, coaches, gms, other writers. This
39:07
Speaker 1: is a year round process for you guys. No, absolutely
39:12
Speaker 1: it is. And to answer your question, I would I
39:14
Speaker 1: would say that I don't spend necessarily a lot of time.
39:18
Speaker 1: I believe that. Look, I don't like to overthink this.
39:22
Speaker 1: I believe in trusting your eyes. I don't believe in
39:25
Speaker 1: trusting numbers necessarily. I believe in trusting your eyes and
39:28
Speaker 1: what you saw. We are in that room, um, because
39:32
Speaker 1: you know, Um, the way it stated is we cover
39:36
Speaker 1: the league, we see these guys. We are supposed to
39:40
Speaker 1: know these guys. Where I spend time talking to people,
39:44
Speaker 1: um about candidates, to be quite frank with you, is
39:48
Speaker 1: more about the guys that I didn't cover in terms
39:50
Speaker 1: of um, they were out of I was not a
39:53
Speaker 1: beat writer at the time that they were playing. So
39:56
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, if it's a senior candidate or
39:59
Speaker 1: something along those then I started asking more about that person,
40:02
Speaker 1: someone that I didn't see on a regular but I
40:05
Speaker 1: started covering the league in and so if you were
40:09
Speaker 1: playing from nine six on, I believe that I should know, um,
40:14
Speaker 1: what type of player you were. I should have seen you,
40:17
Speaker 1: you know, at some point, not just once or twice,
40:19
Speaker 1: but multiple times, particularly we're talking about elite players, so, um,
40:23
Speaker 1: I don't feel it's necessary to say that, well, because
40:27
Speaker 1: X number of former coaches or players are saying this
40:31
Speaker 1: guy deserves to go in, therefore I should vote for him. Again,
40:34
Speaker 1: I'm going to vote my conscience, and I'm going to
40:36
Speaker 1: vote on what I see and and and I'm going
40:41
Speaker 1: to say something here that might not be real popular
40:43
Speaker 1: with some, but I believe that there are people to
40:45
Speaker 1: get in the Hall. I believe it's a first of all,
40:49
Speaker 1: it is the most exclusive club in sports, meaning that
40:52
Speaker 1: they only let in five modern era candidates each year.
40:56
Speaker 1: Having said that, I believe that if we have to
40:59
Speaker 1: have a long discussion on guys, they're probably not Hall
41:02
Speaker 1: of Famers. And I'm setting aside guys who were injured.
41:05
Speaker 1: If we're talking about length of career, I'm talking about
41:08
Speaker 1: guys who played a decade or more and whatnot. If
41:11
Speaker 1: we have to have a long discussion, they're probably not
41:12
Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer. It's supposed to be for the
41:15
Speaker 1: elite of the elite. If you make it to the NFL,
41:17
Speaker 1: in my opinion, you are an elite football player. Think
41:20
Speaker 1: about the how many people who played this game actually
41:23
Speaker 1: get that far so um so. Again, having said that,
41:27
Speaker 1: I don't feel that I I need to um go
41:30
Speaker 1: out and interview three people and say, give me your
41:34
Speaker 1: thoughts on who is and who isn't? Um, what did
41:36
Speaker 1: I see when I actually watch these guys play. That's
41:39
Speaker 1: more of what I asked myself. What I've heard from
41:42
Speaker 1: talking to different voters. Is there still a feeling that
41:44
Speaker 1: Tony probably has a good chance to get into the
41:46
Speaker 1: next couple of years. Do you feel that or uh,
41:50
Speaker 1: how would you assess that? I guess it the question, No,
41:53
Speaker 1: I feel it, But again it doesn't mean anything. UM.
41:57
Speaker 1: I have felt that about other people, other players, other coaches,
42:01
Speaker 1: and they didn't even make the first cut. So there
42:05
Speaker 1: really is no way to say. And I think that
42:08
Speaker 1: anyone who tells you unless they've interviewed all forty eight voters,
42:13
Speaker 1: and all forty eight voters were honest with them. And
42:16
Speaker 1: that's the other thing I remember. I've I've had voters
42:18
Speaker 1: come up and talk to me about guys, and we
42:20
Speaker 1: might talk about candidates, and I walk away from that
42:23
Speaker 1: conversation believing that that that they're voting for that person
42:27
Speaker 1: and that person doesn't get in. So you know, it's
42:30
Speaker 1: a silent vote. We don't know. You know, you may
42:34
Speaker 1: speak up and support of a guy in the room,
42:36
Speaker 1: and then ultimately when it gets down to that, that
42:38
Speaker 1: that voting time, you decided to go a different direction. Um. Look,
42:42
Speaker 1: I believe that when you get fifteen finalists that you
42:46
Speaker 1: could pick any five and you're gonna have a good class. Um,
42:50
Speaker 1: but you can only pick five. And I don't think
42:52
Speaker 1: that people realize how difficult that is because I used
42:55
Speaker 1: this exercise to kind of Um. I started very early
42:58
Speaker 1: on when I was at the hall and people would
43:00
Speaker 1: come after us and you guys don't know what you're doing,
43:03
Speaker 1: and what a bunch of idiots in this. And I
43:05
Speaker 1: would take the list of fifteen and I would get together,
43:08
Speaker 1: you know, five to ten people and I would say, okay,
43:11
Speaker 1: choose five, and choose silently, and then give me your list.
43:15
Speaker 1: And invariably, in many cases, each list was different from
43:20
Speaker 1: the other. So that tells you how difficult it is. UM.
43:25
Speaker 1: So I realized, we're gonna get criticized no matter what
43:28
Speaker 1: we do. UM. But as to Tony, I know, UM,
43:32
Speaker 1: and I try and go in with an open mind
43:34
Speaker 1: on guys and and and wade barring guys like cold
43:37
Speaker 1: Charles Woodson or Peyton Manning who you just know, hm,
43:41
Speaker 1: their hall of famers. Um. But on those others, I
43:44
Speaker 1: try and go in with an open mind and whatnot.
43:46
Speaker 1: I can sit here and tell you now, going in,
43:49
Speaker 1: Tony Boselli will have my vote and we'll just see
43:53
Speaker 1: where it goes from there. Yeah. The biggest truth that
43:56
Speaker 1: every voter will tell you is if you're on that
43:59
Speaker 1: list of fifteen or a Hall of Famer, it's just
44:01
Speaker 1: a matter of if the process works for you. And
44:03
Speaker 1: I think a lot of fans and we get you know, Jaguars.
44:07
Speaker 1: People who write me are obviously biased, so they hate
44:09
Speaker 1: the fact of Tony's not in. But you're right. The
44:12
Speaker 1: reality is all fifteen of those guys there is an
44:16
Speaker 1: incredibly strong argument, and there's guys who aren't even on
44:19
Speaker 1: that list to its early Jim Trotter, I cannot thank
44:22
Speaker 1: you enough for your time with this. I know it's
44:25
Speaker 1: it's request that you get a lot this time of year,
44:27
Speaker 1: so so for you to carve out some time to
44:29
Speaker 1: spend with me, I appreciate it very much and I
44:32
Speaker 1: look forward to talking to you down the road. Oh
44:34
Speaker 1: my pleasure, man. I just uh Tony has an ally
44:38
Speaker 1: and me and and hopefully works out for him. But
44:41
Speaker 1: I'm only one of forty eight. I'm pleased as always
44:45
Speaker 1: to be joined by Peter King. Uh. Peter, a long
44:49
Speaker 1: time Hall of Fame voter. You know, I consider you
44:52
Speaker 1: the guru the process. You've been around as long as anybody.
44:55
Speaker 1: And we're obviously talking about Tony Baselli again. And if
44:58
Speaker 1: you call it a waiting game or how would you
45:00
Speaker 1: describe it at this point? You know, really, I think
45:03
Speaker 1: the best way to describe it, John, is that you
45:07
Speaker 1: would think that someone who's a finalist for so long,
45:12
Speaker 1: you know, the majority of people who become finalists multiple
45:16
Speaker 1: multiple times eventually get in. And now it's sort of
45:21
Speaker 1: happening to Tony and to John lynch Um, And so
45:25
Speaker 1: I think what you have to look at here is
45:29
Speaker 1: you now have to look at the biggest reasons. Okay,
45:33
Speaker 1: so I'm in the room, I look at the bigger,
45:35
Speaker 1: biggest reasons why I think he's not in, and it
45:38
Speaker 1: basically comes down to length of career. And uh, without
45:43
Speaker 1: that issue, we wouldn't be having this conversation. He'd already
45:47
Speaker 1: be in. And so I think it's incumbent on people
45:52
Speaker 1: like me who believe in Tony's case, uh, and who
45:58
Speaker 1: try to figure out from year to year, you know,
46:01
Speaker 1: it's not anymore about the dominance of him at the position. UM.
46:06
Speaker 1: You know, I've told every particle of the UM the
46:10
Speaker 1: Tony Basselli shutout. UM. You know, one of the great
46:15
Speaker 1: past protection games ever, the Tony Basselli shut out in
46:22
Speaker 1: the early nineties of Derrick Thomas, where basically Thomas, uh,
46:28
Speaker 1: you know, not only didn't get a sack, he got
46:30
Speaker 1: one slight pressure and that came against someone who wasn't
46:35
Speaker 1: Tony Boselli. So I think my attitude right now going
46:40
Speaker 1: into it is that what I want to emphasize this
46:44
Speaker 1: year when I speak up for him is the history
46:48
Speaker 1: of players who have not played, not had long careers,
46:53
Speaker 1: and how they compare what their imprint on the game
46:59
Speaker 1: was like paired to Tony's imprint on the game. And
47:02
Speaker 1: that's some of the stuff that I'll be working on
47:05
Speaker 1: prior to the meeting. But you know, things like I
47:10
Speaker 1: doubt that many people would say, with the exception of
47:14
Speaker 1: Super Bowls, which is which is big, you know, very big, uh,
47:19
Speaker 1: that in his eighties six career games that Terrell Davis
47:25
Speaker 1: had a better career overall than UH than Tony Boselli
47:31
Speaker 1: had in nineties seven games. But that's where we are,
47:34
Speaker 1: and so that's part of what I'll try to be
47:37
Speaker 1: emphasizing when I speak up to the group in in UH.
47:42
Speaker 1: You know, in the coming weeks you mentioned that he's
47:46
Speaker 1: been a finalist so many times, and the reports were
47:50
Speaker 1: that he was top ten. I think the last three
47:52
Speaker 1: years written. The point is he's gotten strong consideration, and
47:56
Speaker 1: I guess from what you say that often means there's
48:01
Speaker 1: enough people who feel solidly about his candidacy that eventually
48:04
Speaker 1: works out. And I think you continue to think that
48:07
Speaker 1: it will work out for him in the end. Well,
48:10
Speaker 1: I do, John, But you know that and six dollars
48:14
Speaker 1: and cents will buy you a triple Carmel machiatto at Starbucks.
48:18
Speaker 1: So I don't know what that means really, um I
48:23
Speaker 1: it's hard to read the room, it really is. I
48:26
Speaker 1: don't go out of the room and say, hey, did
48:28
Speaker 1: you vote for Basselli? And if you didn't, what can
48:30
Speaker 1: I do to get your vote. I don't politic for people,
48:34
Speaker 1: it's not that's not my job. My job is to
48:36
Speaker 1: give my opinion and let the chips fall where they may,
48:40
Speaker 1: and look, I believe that this year, Uh, and every
48:45
Speaker 1: year there's one, two or three guys who were relatively automatic.
48:48
Speaker 1: But I believe this year, you know, there's three people
48:52
Speaker 1: whose cases are going to hurt the returning people. Uh
48:57
Speaker 1: and Peyton Manning, Charles and Sin and Calvin Johnson. I'm
49:01
Speaker 1: not saying they're the only ones, but I'm saying I
49:04
Speaker 1: think those three guys enter this process as the newcomers
49:09
Speaker 1: who I think have good chance. Obviously Manning is going
49:12
Speaker 1: to make it, and the other two guys I think
49:14
Speaker 1: have good chances. So you know, we'll see where that
49:17
Speaker 1: leaves everybody else. I'm I'm bullish on a lot of candidates.
49:22
Speaker 1: I'm one of the few people I think it was
49:24
Speaker 1: very bullish on Sam Mills. I love Sam mills candidacy.
49:28
Speaker 1: I really like Zach Thomas's candidacy. So there's a lot
49:34
Speaker 1: of people who deserve, in my opinion, to be in
49:37
Speaker 1: the Pro Football Hall of Fame. I hope, whether it's
49:40
Speaker 1: this year or some other year, I hope that Tony
49:42
Speaker 1: Bessel's name rises to the top. Hey, final question, with
49:47
Speaker 1: more and more people in the room, meaning I ain't
49:50
Speaker 1: eight now used to be at thirty two? It is
49:55
Speaker 1: it a better process now? Or there is there any
49:59
Speaker 1: part of process you can see improve You've been so
50:01
Speaker 1: involved with for so long and I know you pour
50:03
Speaker 1: your heart into it. Any you know, is this I
50:10
Speaker 1: guess the best process? Or how would you improve it?
50:12
Speaker 1: Any thoughts in that direction? Well, this year is going
50:16
Speaker 1: to be interesting because they now have added to more
50:21
Speaker 1: modern media people. Uh. And it's weird to say modern
50:27
Speaker 1: media people when one of them is Bill Pollyan. Uh,
50:31
Speaker 1: you know it's Bill Pollyan and Lisa Walters are at
50:34
Speaker 1: least Assaulters rather um. But but I think when I
50:39
Speaker 1: look at the process right now, I've heard all the
50:42
Speaker 1: alternatives that people have proposed. Um, let's add one vetter,
50:50
Speaker 1: one former player per franchise, UM And And look, I
50:55
Speaker 1: think that there's a lot of good ideas and good
51:00
Speaker 1: ideas out there are good ideas and good uh concepts
51:05
Speaker 1: to consider. But I think if you add one person
51:12
Speaker 1: from every market, one of the things that then becomes
51:16
Speaker 1: hard is that, you know, then you have seventy five
51:21
Speaker 1: or so voters, and it's pretty hard to hold a meeting.
51:27
Speaker 1: I would think in one day, if you are considering uh,
51:34
Speaker 1: you know fifteen to eighteen candidates, and you want to
51:39
Speaker 1: have an open discussion on everyone you know. In the past,
51:43
Speaker 1: some of the discussions have laughed, lasted eight minutes, and honestly,
51:50
Speaker 1: I think they've been great discussions, most of them. I
51:54
Speaker 1: would not want to close off, uh, anybody who's got
51:59
Speaker 1: something to add than something strident to say, just because
52:03
Speaker 1: the meeting is running long. When when that particular idea
52:07
Speaker 1: has come up. My whole point always has been, if
52:11
Speaker 1: you have good people in the meeting, you're not going
52:14
Speaker 1: to get the meeting done in one day. It I
52:17
Speaker 1: don't see how it's possible. The meetings now are eight
52:21
Speaker 1: to nine hours long. I don't look I'd be fine
52:25
Speaker 1: if they were fourteen hours long, but because it is
52:28
Speaker 1: what it is. But I'm just saying, I'm not sure
52:31
Speaker 1: that that's a real practical way to improve the process.
52:36
Speaker 1: I think the one other thing that has been discussed
52:39
Speaker 1: um that I think is kind of an interesting concept
52:44
Speaker 1: is simply to, uh, you know, to have a set
52:49
Speaker 1: time period for discussion on every candidate too. It can
52:54
Speaker 1: exceed at the end of say, thirty five minutes or
52:57
Speaker 1: whatever it is, it's over, and that's interesting. But then again,
53:02
Speaker 1: you're really kind of limiting the conversations you can have,
53:05
Speaker 1: and you're opening up the possibilities of filibuster. So you know,
53:10
Speaker 1: I don't know, John, whatever the rules are, I don't
53:13
Speaker 1: get too caught up in them. I just try to
53:15
Speaker 1: vote my conscience and vote for the people who I
53:18
Speaker 1: think belong what. It's a public process with a tremendous
53:23
Speaker 1: amount of interests. As a result, there's always criticism. But
53:26
Speaker 1: one thing I can say from knowing you, from knowing
53:29
Speaker 1: many of the voters, never question the passion of the
53:33
Speaker 1: people involved with it and the diligence. And I know
53:36
Speaker 1: you're at the forefront of that list. And I also
53:39
Speaker 1: know that it's the playoffs, extremely busy time for you.
53:42
Speaker 1: So thank you for joining us and talking to Jaguars
53:44
Speaker 1: fans about this fear. I will catch up with you
53:46
Speaker 1: down the road. I look forward to seeing you at
53:48
Speaker 1: some point and thank you again. Hey, I really hope
53:51
Speaker 1: I see in training camp next year with whoever the
53:53
Speaker 1: new coaches. Everybody's waiting here for sure, so Peter, it's
53:58
Speaker 1: a pleasure always. Okay, all the besty, John, thank you
54:01
Speaker 1: all right. I want to thank all four people for
54:04
Speaker 1: joining us and it's the playoffs. So for Peter King,
54:09
Speaker 1: Pete Prisco, Jim Trotter, who all covered the league nationally,
54:13
Speaker 1: to join me and talk about Tony Baselli's chances, uh,
54:18
Speaker 1: that means a lot. And I think Jaguars fans who
54:21
Speaker 1: here this will have a good feeling. I personally, from
54:24
Speaker 1: talking to people on the committee for years, I believe
54:27
Speaker 1: Tony's getting in either next year or this year. I
54:31
Speaker 1: think he can be this year. I think it's gonna
54:33
Speaker 1: be a coin flip because of the Alan Fanaka situation.
54:38
Speaker 1: But I still believe from talking to people and from
54:41
Speaker 1: having followed this process for a long time, that momentum
54:44
Speaker 1: is there. There's time for this. It's often a process,
54:47
Speaker 1: as you've heard. I think he gets in one of
54:49
Speaker 1: the next two years. We'll see what happens. We will
54:52
Speaker 1: cover this on Jaguars dot com on January nine, which
54:56
Speaker 1: is the day of the voting. I hope he gets in,
54:59
Speaker 1: not only the cause I'm tired of talking about it,
55:01
Speaker 1: because Tony deserves it, you know, and it would be
55:05
Speaker 1: a great thing to the Jacksonville Jaguars. Good luck to
55:08
Speaker 1: Tony VASSELLI, thank you for listening. This one didn't stuck
55:11
Speaker 1: we'll see you soon.