Latest / More Than Medicine / MTM-Laura Schaar..Election Integrity: The Case for Paper Ballots
Transcript
- 0:04Speaker 1: Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country.
- 0:10Speaker 1: Hosted by author and physician, dr Robert Jackson, and his wife Carlotta and daughter Hannah Miller.
- 0:16Speaker 1: So listen up, because the doctor is in.
- 0:22Robert Jackson: Welcome to More Than Medicine.
- 0:23Robert Jackson: I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the country doctor's rusty, dusty scrapbook.
- 0:31Robert Jackson: Well, I'm privileged today to have online with me Ms Laura Scharr from South Carolina.
- 0:37Robert Jackson: Safe Elections, ms Laura, welcome to More Than Medicine.
- 0:41Laura Schaar: Well, thank you for having me, Dr Jackson.
- 0:43Robert Jackson: It's a privilege than medicine.
- 0:46Robert Jackson: Well, thank you for having me, dr Jackson.
- 0:47Robert Jackson: It's a privilege, it's my privilege.
- 0:47Robert Jackson: I'm delighted to have you once again Now.
- 0:48Robert Jackson: Ms Laura, I understand that you were recently at a very special event out, I think, in Texas, is that correct?
- 0:56Laura Schaar: That is correct.
- 0:57Laura Schaar: It was in Dallas, texas, and it was something that I had been thinking about for a very long time with my team, the Gold Standard Election Team, which is a team of people across the United States that I have been thinking about for a very long time with my team, the Gold Standard Election Team, which is a team of people across the United States that I collaborate with, and we just decided to do this.
- 1:11Laura Schaar: So we planned the entire event and we had it in Dallas and it was called the Gold Standard Election Expo.
- 1:21Robert Jackson: My goodness Now, who sponsored this event.
- 1:23Laura Schaar: We did Our team.
- 1:25Laura Schaar: So we put a lot of money and energy and effort into a really full day and we had over 100 attendees and the whole purpose of the event was to demonstrate the work that we had all done as grassroots election advocates, election reform advocates.
- 1:46Laura Schaar: So really work together, innovate, collaborate, demonstrate and educate.
- 1:53Laura Schaar: And it was a fun-filled day.
- 1:55Laura Schaar: We were there from eight in the morning until about, you know, six at night and we got a lot done, as you can imagine.
- 2:03Robert Jackson: Well now, who were the folks that were there to see you demonstrate the gold standard election integrity process?
- 2:13Laura Schaar: Well, we had, obviously other grassroots election experts.
- 2:17Laura Schaar: We had some election officials.
- 2:20Laura Schaar: We even had some candidates for Secretary of State there, one gentleman from Ohio.
- 2:26Laura Schaar: We had lawyers who had been working on behalf of election integrity grassroots advocates and so it was a nice mix of people.
- 2:39Laura Schaar: The whole uniform issue here was that we all cared passionately about reforming our elections, and that's one of the things that made it different.
- 2:52Laura Schaar: It wasn't about a bunch of influencers there.
- 2:54Laura Schaar: We didn't have a lot of you know big names.
- 2:56Laura Schaar: It was just for the people who were working this problem for the last several years, and so people really appreciated that.
- 3:04Laura Schaar: They liked that atmosphere.
- 3:06Laura Schaar: It wasn't open to the public, it was invite only, and it made for a really nice atmosphere and it was just a lovely event.
- 3:14Robert Jackson: So why was all this so important?
- 3:16Robert Jackson: Tell me, tell my listeners, why an event like this is so important.
- 3:20Laura Schaar: Well, because, as you know, we have a new administration with President Trump, and he did sign an executive order on March 25th of this year, and so we thought it was really important, because so many people talk about the election reform but they don't really know what it looks like, right?
- 3:39Laura Schaar: So we figured we have to show them.
- 3:41Laura Schaar: If we show them what it means for true reform, they'll get it.
- 3:46Laura Schaar: So what we did was we talked about, first of all, what is the gold standard for elections and what it means, and so we defined that.
- 3:56Laura Schaar: And then what we did was we had and I'll explain that just briefly there are four steps in our election process, and we need to reform all of them.
- 4:06Laura Schaar: It's not just a one little teeny piece that we have to fix.
- 4:11Laura Schaar: We need to fix the whole process, and that means voter registration, voter validation, which is you know, when you validate, who you are, where you live, that you can in fact vote, you're eligible to vote, and then we have the tabulation of the vote, the marking and counting, and then, finally, the reporting of the results.
- 4:31Laura Schaar: So each one of those phases of the election needs to be optimized for four different variables, and we call them the four pillars.
- 4:43Laura Schaar: So we want elections to be accessible, we want them to be secure, we want them to be transparent and we want them to be verifiable.
- 4:53Laura Schaar: And we wrote our gold standard team the four of us across the United States we wrote a white paper and this is on my site, scsafelectionsorg, as well as goldstandardelectionscom that details exactly how to reach that gold standard.
- 5:11Laura Schaar: Now, one of the reasons we got everybody together was we said, okay, everybody doesn't understand that third phase, that tabulation phase, and how we would do it.
- 5:20Laura Schaar: They have questions, they have concerns, so let's show them how we do it.
- 5:26Laura Schaar: And we had a speed dating of sorts for these election processes.
- 5:31Laura Schaar: So we had these four different methods in four different rooms, and we actually held this in the museum that Glenn Beck has curated this beautiful museum, it's the American Voyage Experience and each different room had a different method for hand-counting hand-marked paper ballots.
- 5:50Laura Schaar: And so the attendees we split them up into four groups and they each could go into the rooms for about a half an hour and watch these methods being demonstrated, and then afterwards they could ask questions and we had some panels after that.
- 6:05Laura Schaar: So that was the whole gist of the meeting.
- 6:10Robert Jackson: So now, what was the after-presentation opinion of the people who attended and observed the gold standard in action?
- 6:23Laura Schaar: They were very enthused.
- 6:24Laura Schaar: They were like we can actually do this and we took a poll of them afterwards and all four of the methods they felt could work.
- 6:32Laura Schaar: Now I'm partial to ours because I feel like it's very simple and also two of the methods were very Texas-specific, so they required more paperwork, potentially more people, and so ours is just a very stripped-down method and we call our method the gold standard tally method.
- 6:57Laura Schaar: It is super simple.
- 6:59Laura Schaar: It is people, paper and pens.
- 7:03Robert Jackson: People paper and pens.
- 7:05Robert Jackson: People paper and pens Yep and it's transferable to any state.
- 7:09Laura Schaar: Yes, it's so easy.
- 7:11Laura Schaar: Now, certain states have particular rules so you have to be careful and make sure it's modified for your particular state's rules.
- 7:18Laura Schaar: But this pretty much can be done anywhere and it will be easy to incorporate into the law if you needed to, or to just do it if we had to, because we might be faced to do this given the president's executive order of March 25th.
- 7:36Robert Jackson: Now what exactly did that executive order say Okay.
- 7:40Laura Schaar: Well, it's very, very interesting.
- 7:42Laura Schaar: So what that executive order does is it is focused aating that the states have access to systems that will verify citizenship.
- 7:53Laura Schaar: There's going to be increased enforcement of that.
- 8:11Laura Schaar: There's also part of the executive order deals with voter rolls.
- 8:16Laura Schaar: The Department of Homeland Security is going to review the voter maintenance activities of the states, is going to review the voter maintenance activities of the states, and they're also making available special data to the states so that they can do a better job of cleaning up the voter rolls.
- 8:32Laura Schaar: Now, on top of that, you have a couple things that I think are going to make the next few months very interesting, and there's already lawsuits flying.
- 8:42Laura Schaar: Very interesting, and there's already lawsuits flying.
- 8:48Laura Schaar: So, number one the executive order says that the voting systems that are utilized for now remember, this executive order is for federal elections, but it says that because, just so people know, the states constitutionally determine the location, the manner and the time of their elections.
- 9:04Laura Schaar: But this is for federal elections and one of the first stipulations is that no voting system can use a ballot with a barcode or a QR code for tabulation.
- 9:18Laura Schaar: That's interesting.
- 9:21Robert Jackson: And that's part of the executive order.
- 9:23Laura Schaar: A hundred percent, and that's part of the executive order A hundred percent.
- 9:25Laura Schaar: And so right now, if you go to vote in person and you go in, you're going to be making your selections on an express vote machine from ES&S that will put a barcode on your ballot and then you take that ballot and you scan it into a tabulator.
- 9:44Laura Schaar: So that express vote machine is not going to be able to work.
- 9:50Laura Schaar: Currently it's not programmed to be able to work without a barcode.
- 9:56Robert Jackson: I got you.
- 9:57Laura Schaar: So I don't know if we'll even be able to use the express vote machines based on this executive order for the primary next year.
- 10:04Laura Schaar: So that's pretty pivotal.
- 10:06Robert Jackson: I got you Now.
- 10:07Robert Jackson: So that means for the federal primaries they're going to have to use paper and pen.
- 10:13Laura Schaar: Well, they're going to at least have to use hand marked paper ballots.
- 10:16Laura Schaar: So the next thing is what about the tabulators?
- 10:19Laura Schaar: Because we could hand mark our ballots, just like you would for an absentee ballot right, and then put that into the tabulator.
- 10:25Laura Schaar: But here's where the executive order also puts some additional stipulations.
- 10:30Laura Schaar: He states that you must recertify within 180 days of the order, which would be about September I think it's September 21st.
- 10:41Laura Schaar: Is the cutoff, september 21st of 25, september, I think it's September 21st, is the cutoff, september 21st of 25, to new voluntary voting system guidelines 2.0.
- 10:52Laura Schaar: And so he's saying you've been operating under 1.0.
- 10:54Laura Schaar: We want you to take these standards to 2.0, which was actually developed in 21.
- 11:01Laura Schaar: We are now operating under standards from 2005.
- 11:03Laura Schaar: Most people don't understand that.
- 11:06Robert Jackson: Oh, I did know that, I knew it.
- 11:07Laura Schaar: Yeah, dvsg1, which is what we are certified towards and all ES&S and Dominion systems are, is from 2005.
- 11:16Laura Schaar: And we are still adhering to that.
- 11:18Laura Schaar: Now the new system standards came out, the 2.0, in 21.
- 11:22Laura Schaar: And he's saying not only do I want you to adhere to those, I want you to update those, review and update those, rescind all previous certifications.
- 11:33Laura Schaar: And so it takes a while to test these systems.
- 11:38Laura Schaar: So we believe that they're not going to be ready in time for the primaries, which are only a year away, less than a year away in some cases.
- 11:46Laura Schaar: And so what happens then?
- 11:49Laura Schaar: That is the big question mark.
- 11:52Robert Jackson: I got you.
- 11:53Robert Jackson: I got you Well.
- 11:57Robert Jackson: So those tabulators are going to have to be upgraded to the new standards, and you think there's not enough time for those tabulators to be upgraded to the new standards?
- 12:04Robert Jackson: And you think there's not enough time for those tabulators to be upgraded?
- 12:07Laura Schaar: exactly, and we just purchased new tabulators to the end of I know it was over 20, I think it was 26 million to 30 million dollars, and so are we even going to be able to use those, or are?
- 12:18Laura Schaar: Is it going to be a situation and I'm just spitballing here is it going to be a situation and I'm just spitballing here is it going to be a situation where they say well, we are the state, we have control, we will count our state and local elections with the machines, and, if we're forced to, we'll hand count the federal elections, which, to be honest, that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world either, because we're probably only going to have a couple.
- 12:43Laura Schaar: Each state is only going to have a couple federal elections.
- 12:46Laura Schaar: You might have a senator and a congressman that are up, and you have to vote in each precinct for just two federal races.
- 12:57Robert Jackson: That'd be good because it'll prove to our electorate that we can actually hand count and do it well and provide trust and transparency statewide.
- 13:07Robert Jackson: That will give confidence to the people that we can actually do this.
- 13:12Laura Schaar: That's right.
- 13:12Laura Schaar: That's right.
- 13:13Laura Schaar: It could be a good pilot test to get that done.
- 13:16Laura Schaar: So that's kind of where we are.
- 13:18Laura Schaar: It's a very interesting situation, which is why we felt the importance that we had to get everybody there documented.
- 13:25Laura Schaar: The Department of Justice we had members of the Department of Justice asking us to provide them because they actually, while we were there that Saturday, they got news that this was going on and they were like we're hearing great, great stuff about this event you're having Send us some information about your methods and how you're counting.
- 13:44Laura Schaar: And so we actually spent the day prior doing a big videotape documenting our systems and almost doing like a little commercial or infomercial or for lack of a better word about hand counting, and so we're in the process of editing that and we just got the raw footage in.
- 14:00Laura Schaar: So we're going to try to get that to the Department of Justice because it's so important.
- 14:04Laura Schaar: If you see it, you believe it and you see how easy it is.
- 14:08Robert Jackson: Well now, what exactly is the pushback from our legislators?
- 14:12Robert Jackson: That's a great question why would?
- 14:13Robert Jackson: Anybody not want to do paper and pen.
- 14:17Laura Schaar: That's a great question.
- 14:18Laura Schaar: So the objections, the typical objections, are number one oh, it's going to take too long.
- 14:24Laura Schaar: Well, we have been able to demonstrate through our multiple tests that we've done, that we can count.
- 14:32Laura Schaar: We can finish counting in about four hours, so we can get done by midnight.
- 14:37Laura Schaar: But the key thing there is we need to keep our precincts small.
- 14:40Laura Schaar: They must be kept to about 1,500 qualified electors and we want to make sure that the counting is done at the precinct only.
- 14:50Laura Schaar: We do not want it done at the county.
- 14:52Laura Schaar: In fact we would even recommend that the absentee ballots get sorted and sent to the precinct for counting there.
- 14:57Laura Schaar: So we can totally do this by midnight if we keep the precincts small.
- 15:01Laura Schaar: The other objection is well, humans make errors right, but we have developed a system that makes reconciliation super easy, very fast, and in fact, when you think about it, we use hand counting in our audits to confirm the machine accuracy.
- 15:18Laura Schaar: So really it is the gold standard.
- 15:21Laura Schaar: The other objection is oh, we're not going to find enough workers.
- 15:26Laura Schaar: But Rasmussen did a poll I believe it was back in November, right around the time of the election, and they asked likely voters if they'd be willing to volunteer not even get paid to volunteer to count ballots at their local neighborhood area, and 52% of likely voters said yes, and this was across all demographics and all parties.
- 15:50Laura Schaar: And now the other objection is well, it's hard to find polling locations, and if we make it a federal holiday, then more locations will be available because the schools will be out, and so I think if we have a state or a federal holiday for our elections, that issue gets minimized.
- 16:08Robert Jackson: Exactly, exactly, my goodness.
- 16:12Robert Jackson: Well, now let me ask you another question, then what are your recommendations to attain this gold standard?
- 16:21Laura Schaar: Well, for the gold standard to count, or just the gold standard in general, in general, not just for counting.
- 16:28Laura Schaar: So for the registration piece, we recommend that everybody gets re-registered.
- 16:34Laura Schaar: We need to clean the slates because our voter rolls are so dirty across the United States and that if people are deceased or they move, we immediately remove them.
- 16:43Laura Schaar: Right now it can take upwards of six to eight years for people to get off those rolls if they die or if they move.
- 16:50Robert Jackson: So even if they have evidence, that only makes sense.
- 16:53Laura Schaar: No, it doesn't.
- 16:54Laura Schaar: So that would be one recommendation.
- 16:56Laura Schaar: And we need to do registration in person with a photo ID and proof of citizenship.
- 17:01Laura Schaar: We need to do registration in person with a photo ID and proof of citizenship.
- 17:04Laura Schaar: The other thing with the registration is that voter rolls are free of charge for the citizens to do their own audits and that the maintenance is down at the county level.
- 17:10Laura Schaar: So that's for that phase.
- 17:11Laura Schaar: That would be the recommendation there.
- 17:13Laura Schaar: To reach the gold standard for validation, we need to make sure that we are using paper poll books.
- 17:21Laura Schaar: Right now we do those electronic poll books.
- 17:23Laura Schaar: They're not certified and there's a multitude of issues.
- 17:27Laura Schaar: And, by the way, they're connected to the Internet and we're finding blips and we're not able to reconcile it to the actual voters that often come in the door.
- 17:36Robert Jackson: And they created a lot of headaches at our last election.
- 17:39Robert Jackson: Those electronic oh did you?
- 17:41Robert Jackson: Oh yeah, and there was people calling the county constantly because people couldn't find their name in that electronic book.
- 17:50Laura Schaar: Yeah, that's not good, and part of it is they instantly freeze the rolls 30 days prior, but then they instantly activate them if they show up, and that's partly because the people aren't coming in to keep active.
- 18:00Laura Schaar: They need to stay active and you do that by showing up at the primaries.
- 18:06Laura Schaar: The primaries are the most important election in South Carolina.
- 18:09Robert Jackson: Oh yeah, oh yeah.
- 18:10Laura Schaar: So people need to show up and that's like a big commercial for please show up at the primaries, get yourself educated about the people who are running and show up, because that is the critical election in South Carolina.
- 18:24Laura Schaar: For the vote tabulation, the recommendation is the gold standard tally method and it's one day of voting with minimal absentee balloting.
- 18:34Laura Schaar: Make it a federal holiday.
- 18:36Laura Schaar: We also don't want early voting, so that goes away.
- 18:40Laura Schaar: Hand-marked, hand-counted paper ballots at the precinct, like we talked about, and we do that with people paper pens with the gold standard method, and I'm going to be actually visiting a couple counties to demonstrate that method so that people can do it with me and they can see how easy it is, super easy, super quick.
- 19:00Laura Schaar: And they can see how easy it is, super easy, super quick.
- 19:02Laura Schaar: And then, finally, reporting.
- 19:04Laura Schaar: We believe that the reporting needs to be publicly posted at the precinct, like it is now, but also the reports need to go from the precinct to the county, the county to the state.
- 19:13Laura Schaar: Bipartisan protocols, no third-party contractors like we have now, and basically all documentation goes to the citizens and they can observe.
- 19:23Laura Schaar: The key thing is, people in South Carolina need to be able to observe every aspect of the process.
- 19:29Laura Schaar: They need to be able to see the ballots, because right now they won't even let us see the ballots, and the point is that our ballots shall be cast in secret, but they shall not be counted in secret.
- 19:42Robert Jackson: That's in our South Carolina Constitution Open and transparent.
- 19:46Laura Schaar: Amen.
- 19:47Robert Jackson: So that's, the gold standard.
- 19:49Laura Schaar: Just in a nutshell, but there's more in our white paper.
- 19:53Robert Jackson: Now, if people want to see this come to pass people paper pen and they want to persuade our legislators to move forward on this, what do you think they need to do?
- 20:05Robert Jackson: How do they make the people make this happen?
- 20:08Laura Schaar: Yeah, we need their help.
- 20:08Laura Schaar: We absolutely need it.
- 20:09Laura Schaar: It's going to take effort from the bottom up and also from the top down.
- 20:13Laura Schaar: Now President Trump is doing what he can with the executive order, but people have to demand it.
- 20:18Laura Schaar: So I would suggest that people contact their state legislators and their election officials.
- 20:24Laura Schaar: So talk to your county or your state election official, contact your representative and your senator and tell them that you want a voting system by the people, for the people, one that uses paper poll books and hand-counted, hand-marked paper ballots, with one day of voting, and demand that the citizens are able to observe the election process and also the election materials once the ballots are cast, because once they're cast, they're separated from the voter and they're completely anonymous, and the important thing is to spread the news with friends, family.
- 21:04Laura Schaar: We need more people involved in this effort, and everything goes back to elections.
- 21:08Laura Schaar: So I know there are hot topics that people care about.
- 21:12Laura Schaar: Some people are all about abortion.
- 21:14Laura Schaar: Some people are, you know, minimizing it and getting rid of it.
- 21:17Laura Schaar: Some people are about the kids and trying to keep, you know, the CRT out of the schools.
- 21:21Laura Schaar: Some people are, you know, everybody has their own pet issues, but the bottom line is we're not going to fix any of that until we fix our elections, and we're going to lose our constitutional republic if we cannot get rid of the electronic voting system, which I call weapon of vote.
- 21:37Laura Schaar: It's weapons of vote destruction.
- 21:40Robert Jackson: Yeah, you're right about that.
- 21:41Robert Jackson: You're exactly right about that.
- 21:42Robert Jackson: Well now, does South Carolina's safe elections need any financial support?
- 21:48Laura Schaar: No, I've been kind of keeping it going for the last several years and you know we do our best.
- 21:55Laura Schaar: I don't really—this is my passion, and, other than the lawsuit which we had to try to get the cast vote records, which was very expensive we just do our own thing.
- 22:05Laura Schaar: So I really just am asking people to support by spreading the word, talking to the representatives, getting involved, going to our website, scsafelectionsorg, and learning more and volunteering in their particular county.
- 22:20Laura Schaar: There's lots of things that you can do to help out.
- 22:22Laura Schaar: We have some great people all across the state just some friendly, amazing patriots that I call my friends and my family, and that's what I would suggest.
- 22:33Laura Schaar: Download the Gold Standard white paper, read it, send that to your representatives, tell them this is the kind of solution that you would like to see.
- 22:41Laura Schaar: We right now have no idea how our vote is counted.
- 22:46Laura Schaar: It's a big black box.
- 22:47Robert Jackson: Yeah, it is.
- 22:48Laura Schaar: If you had a bank that gave you a statement at the end of the month and it just had the total amount with no itemized detail, you would not stand that.
- 22:58Robert Jackson: You would not allow that you wouldn't do business with them, but that's exactly what we're doing, yeah exactly Well, ms Laura, I'm just pleased as punch with the information that you provide, with the detail that you provide.
- 23:13Robert Jackson: I appreciate your passion for this, and we in South Carolina have to do better.
- 23:19Laura Schaar: We do, we're one of the worst states Dr.
- 23:21Robert Jackson: Jackson, we are, we are, I know we are, and our legislators push back on us like we're a bunch of idiots and we don't know what we're talking about.
- 23:32Robert Jackson: But we have to do better and I'm calling on my listeners to educate themselves about the voting machines that I think.
- 23:40Robert Jackson: I'm convinced they're stealing elections across our nation and in South Carolina and we need to push for paper ballots.
- 23:49Robert Jackson: And we need to push for a much improved tabulating process, and Ms Laura has laid it out for us.
- 23:56Robert Jackson: She's done the homework for us and it's just up for us to educate ourselves and we need to educate our legislators and we need to demand a better process, a paper-pen-counting process, and it's up to us.
- 24:13Robert Jackson: We're the people, and the legislators answer to us and we cannot allow them off the hook.
- 24:21Robert Jackson: So there we are.
- 24:21Robert Jackson: All right, You're listening to More Than Medicine.
- 24:24Robert Jackson: My guest today is Laura Scharr with South Carolina Safe Elections.
- 24:29Robert Jackson: We want our elections to be safe, trustworthy and transparent, and she's shown us how to make that happen.
- 24:36Robert Jackson: Ms Laura, thank you for being on More Than Medicine.
- 24:39Robert Jackson: I really appreciate you.
- 24:42Laura Schaar: Well, thank you for having me, dr Jackson, always a pleasure.
- 24:44Robert Jackson: All right.
- 24:45Robert Jackson: Thank you, ma'am.
- 24:45Robert Jackson: I'll have you back again sometime in the future.
- 24:48Robert Jackson: You're listening to More Than Medicine.
- 24:50Robert Jackson: I'm your host, Dr Robert Jackson.
- 24:52Robert Jackson: We'll be back again next week.
- 24:54Robert Jackson: Until then, may the Lord bless you real good.
- 24:58Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine.
- 25:01Speaker 1: For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry, dr Jackson's books, or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, instagram or their webpage at jacksonfamilyministrycom.
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