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Gregor MacGregor Invented a Country and Convinced People to Invest in It · Ridiculous History

0:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, welcome to the show, ridiculous Historians. Have you ever
0:27
Speaker 1: heard of a barracuda also known as a bilker, a bunco,
0:31
Speaker 1: a hustler, a swindler, a crook, or perhaps most familiar,
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Speaker 1: a con man barracuda? I know, isn't that cool? One
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Speaker 1: of those that's that is a synonym for connor. I've
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Speaker 1: never heard this before, Ben Well, neither of I nol
0:48
Speaker 1: have you, super producer Casey pegram? That is not a
0:52
Speaker 1: usage I'm familiar with. Let's bring it back. I think
0:55
Speaker 1: we should welcome to the show. This is ridiculous history.
0:58
Speaker 1: And I've got to say, well, you know how, sometimes
1:02
Speaker 1: I don't know if this happens to you. Sometimes when
1:04
Speaker 1: I'm doing research, I'll fall into a tangential rabbit hole.
1:09
Speaker 1: So in our time researching this episode, I fell into
1:14
Speaker 1: a rabbit hole of con artist culture and synonyms clearly
1:18
Speaker 1: and grifters, Oh, we should have said grifter that's my favorite,
1:21
Speaker 1: and all the different slang terms attributed to this this
1:26
Speaker 1: subculture of this industry, and today's show does ultimately concern
1:31
Speaker 1: what I have to say is an objectively impressive grift. Yeah,
1:35
Speaker 1: and an objectively impressive grift from an objectively detestable human person.
1:40
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh, terrible garbage train of a person for sure,
1:45
Speaker 1: and often described as an adventurer, which seems like a
1:49
Speaker 1: cool job title, but we'll find, in his case is
1:53
Speaker 1: maybe a little more generous than he deserves. But no,
1:56
Speaker 1: could you introduce us to this fellow Gregor McGregor. Gregor
2:00
Speaker 1: McGregor sounds made up the way, do you hear his
2:03
Speaker 1: his his other his other name. Um, yeah, he's sort of.
2:06
Speaker 1: He once was a rosy cheeked young lad from the
2:09
Speaker 1: Scottish Highlands. He came from fighting stock, as this fantastic
2:13
Speaker 1: article from History Today by Victor Allen points out. You see,
2:17
Speaker 1: his grandfather, Um was a well known klansman. That's not
2:21
Speaker 1: a like a ku Ku klux klansman, a klansman uh
2:24
Speaker 1: in the Scottish tradition, Um whose name in Gaelic was
2:28
Speaker 1: Gregor the Beautiful, And he was a member of something
2:32
Speaker 1: called the Black Watch. And also Um kind of became
2:37
Speaker 1: an important figure in a region called Inverden in Brettelbaine,
2:43
Speaker 1: and he became something called a laird, which I imagine
2:46
Speaker 1: to be a lord right right, And those terms are
2:50
Speaker 1: also not made up. We have to point out that
2:55
Speaker 1: this Gregor the beautiful thing was probably not meant uh
3:00
Speaker 1: sarcastically like little John or something. It wasn't a super
3:03
Speaker 1: ugly dude. No. I think he was probably a bit
3:05
Speaker 1: of a hunk because his grandson Gregor, uh, you know,
3:09
Speaker 1: in all the portraits that we've been able to find him,
3:11
Speaker 1: pretty dashing figure. Real smoke show. Absolutely, well, welcome to
3:16
Speaker 1: the Wow wow man, you got some feels about They
3:20
Speaker 1: just wanted an excuse to use this wonderful phrase that
3:23
Speaker 1: John Oliver used recently. What a smoke show or a
3:26
Speaker 1: snack absolute snack described it, and I thought, wow, John Oliver,
3:29
Speaker 1: that's pretty racy. Well you, and I'll tell you one
3:32
Speaker 1: thing that's very snack able about him are his delicious
3:34
Speaker 1: mutton chops, because they are a thing of beauty. My friend.
3:38
Speaker 1: So he had a career in a military career, pretty
3:41
Speaker 1: storied military career, didn't he. Yeah, yeah, he had years
3:45
Speaker 1: and years of service in the British Army. And let's
3:49
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about how he got wrapped
3:53
Speaker 1: up in all these military shenanigans and escapades. McGregor, you see,
3:59
Speaker 1: joined the British Charmy at sixteen, which was that you
4:02
Speaker 1: have to be at least sixteen to join the army
4:04
Speaker 1: at this time. He joined in April eighteen oh three.
4:08
Speaker 1: Oh wait, we have to go back, did we say
4:09
Speaker 1: when he was born December sevent crucial crucial dt crucialde
4:15
Speaker 1: crucial d December in fact? Anyhow, fast forward, he's sixteen.
4:20
Speaker 1: April of eighteen o three. He signs up for the
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Speaker 1: British Army. His family had purchased a commission for him
4:27
Speaker 1: to serve as an insign in the fifty seven West
4:31
Speaker 1: Middlesex Regiment of Foot. Purchased a commission for him, like
4:35
Speaker 1: bought his way into a cushy military job, bought his
4:39
Speaker 1: way to officers status. So it cost around UH four
4:43
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty pounds. Because his family is pretty well off,
4:47
Speaker 1: you know, he's got yeah, he's got a landed grandfather, right,
4:51
Speaker 1: so when he enters the military. Funny story. At the
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Speaker 1: same time, something called the Napoleonic Wars is occurring in Europe.
5:02
Speaker 1: I feel as though we've heard of this before. I
5:04
Speaker 1: think so. I think so. Long time listeners may may
5:08
Speaker 1: have a vague image of bunnies hopping into their heads
5:11
Speaker 1: and steamy fan Fick involving are Born Napoleon and Alexander Bazaar. Yes,
5:17
Speaker 1: it was bizarre, to say the least worth it. Thank you,
5:21
Speaker 1: I'll be here for the rest of the show. Good.
5:23
Speaker 1: I need you, I need you, Ben, I need you.
5:26
Speaker 1: Are you gonna stay for the rest of this show too?
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Speaker 1: We'll see Okay, great, we'll play it by ear And
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Speaker 1: that's what McGregor was doing. Nice. Thanks. So he does
5:36
Speaker 1: serve in the military, and at this time he is
5:40
Speaker 1: actually doing the work. Uh. In February eighteen o four,
5:46
Speaker 1: less than a year into his training, he is promoted
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Speaker 1: without purchasing a commission, so he earns the rank of lieutenant.
5:55
Speaker 1: And this is important because that kind of advancement usually
5:59
Speaker 1: takes longer, like three years. Yeah, and what was he
6:02
Speaker 1: like in his twenties? He would uh still not be twenty.
6:05
Speaker 1: He would be around like maybe just about to turn eighteen.
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Speaker 1: This is an eighteen four or four And as he
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Speaker 1: is serving the British Army, he is still networking with people.
6:21
Speaker 1: He meets the daughter of a Royal Navy admiral named
6:24
Speaker 1: Maria bow Watter and she had a pretty hefty dowry,
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Speaker 1: didn't he didn't he wife her up. He did, he did,
6:34
Speaker 1: he wiped her up. Uh. He also bought the rank
6:38
Speaker 1: of captain for about nine hundred pounds, and he could
6:42
Speaker 1: have waited to get the promotion to earn it, but
6:44
Speaker 1: that would have taken seven years. And he was a
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Speaker 1: man on a mission. The palms being greased in this situation,
6:49
Speaker 1: aren't there, Ben, And I think we're already seeing some
6:53
Speaker 1: foreshadowing of our boy h Gregor McGregor's slippery nature. That's right, Noal,
6:59
Speaker 1: And we see his extroverted nature go international pretty soon
7:05
Speaker 1: when he is in his twenties. He doesn't just stay
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Speaker 1: in Europe, you see. Uh. He is interested, intrigued by
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Speaker 1: the colonial revolts against Spanish rule in Latin America, particularly Venezuela, Venezuela,
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Speaker 1: and he kind of joins forces or offers his services
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Speaker 1: to I guess, um, this guy Simon Bolivar Bolivar, right,
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Speaker 1: he is like the head or the leader of the
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Speaker 1: this kind of rebellion. His nickname was the Liberator. In
7:37
Speaker 1: fact earned that nickname by liberating um what is now
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Speaker 1: the republics of Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Panama, uh and Bolivia.
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Speaker 1: UM made them sovereign states and freed them from Spanish rule.
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Speaker 1: And this is all in the midst of that hubub
7:55
Speaker 1: there right, yes, yeah, absolutely, So how does a how
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Speaker 1: does a young scotsman throw his hat in the ring
8:01
Speaker 1: to to a revolt like this? I guess they needed
8:04
Speaker 1: all the help they can get, or what they need
8:06
Speaker 1: all the help we could get. Also, we should point
8:09
Speaker 1: out that in December of eighteen eleven, Maria McGregor had
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Speaker 1: passed away, so he is now no longer a married man.
8:20
Speaker 1: When he arrives in Venezuela, it's not long after an
8:24
Speaker 1: earthquake has destroyed a lot of the city. This is
8:28
Speaker 1: in April of eighteen twelve. Uh, some of the country
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Speaker 1: was under control of advancing Royalist armies. The revolutionary government
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Speaker 1: was starting to collapse on itself and break into different factions.
8:43
Speaker 1: McGregor didn't want to talk about his titles, and you know,
8:50
Speaker 1: in in his European life, he wanted to seem pretty
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Speaker 1: legit to the Republicans, so he kept calling himself Sir Gregor,
9:00
Speaker 1: and then he started claiming he was a Knight of
9:02
Speaker 1: the Portuguese Order of Christ. And then he offered his
9:07
Speaker 1: services to Venezuelan revolutionaries. The first one he offered his
9:13
Speaker 1: service to was a guy named Francisco de Miranda, and
9:17
Speaker 1: Francisco ended up being a pretty good person for McGregor
9:20
Speaker 1: to know. We'll see throughout this that McGregor uses people
9:23
Speaker 1: and throws them away. He had promoted McGregor eventually to
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Speaker 1: brigadier general in twelve but he also this guy Miranda.
9:32
Speaker 1: Um was really fascinated by the idea of kind of
9:35
Speaker 1: having a new Incan empire in South America, like where
9:40
Speaker 1: the streets would be paved with gold and the trees
9:42
Speaker 1: would be overflowing with ripe fruit, and it would be
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Speaker 1: just this like kind of Shangra law or Eten type paradise, right,
9:50
Speaker 1: And this is a notion that I think he started
9:52
Speaker 1: implanting in McGregor's head that will kind of come out
9:58
Speaker 1: in the story. Very very yeah. Yeah, good call, good call.
10:02
Speaker 1: So eventually things go wrong for Francisco de Miranda, who
10:09
Speaker 1: apparently it also just a side note here been uh
10:13
Speaker 1: knocking boots with Catherine the Great? Did you see that?
10:15
Speaker 1: Just occasionally? I think just occasionally. They didn't want to
10:18
Speaker 1: put a label on it, you know what I mean,
10:20
Speaker 1: very forward thinking, it was complicated. It was a time
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Speaker 1: of revolution, so unfortunately, Francisco de Miranda had been captured
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Speaker 1: by Spanish forces and he had been shipped off to
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Speaker 1: prison where he spent four years chained to a wall. McGregor. However,
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Speaker 1: despite losing his patron at this point or his main
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Speaker 1: connection with the military structure, he continues on his journey
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Speaker 1: and he makes a name for himself. People say, hey,
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Speaker 1: have you guys seen a brave that guy is? Have
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Speaker 1: you seen what a great leader he is? Or more
10:58
Speaker 1: likely I held my hand in front of the mic
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Speaker 1: like I'm whispering. I want I want everyone to know
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Speaker 1: that I did that. Even though you can't see still
11:06
Speaker 1: doing it, I'm still doing and feeling feeling this moment. No,
11:09
Speaker 1: because yeah, they said he was courageous, and they said
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Speaker 1: he was a great leader. Look at those chops, look
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Speaker 1: at those beautiful, gorgeous mutton shops. Or did he just
11:20
Speaker 1: make up stories wherein he looked courageous and looked like
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Speaker 1: a good leader. Yeah. But that's the thing though in
11:26
Speaker 1: and around this time, and it will become even more
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Speaker 1: apparent once our boy kind of makes the trip back
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Speaker 1: to his home country. In London, things were not so good.
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Speaker 1: People wanted heroes. They wanted to believe these kinds of stories.
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Speaker 1: They wanted to look up to someone like this guy
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Speaker 1: and be able to say, Hey, look at that shining
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Speaker 1: example of a man with those delightful mutton shops. I
11:47
Speaker 1: want to follow that guy. That's really good context to
11:50
Speaker 1: put on this. And I think you're absolutely correct. People
11:53
Speaker 1: need a hero, right, And whether he is a real
11:58
Speaker 1: hero or not, Uh, it's debatable. We'll we'll leave that
12:02
Speaker 1: decision to you folks. Regardless. He rose from the position
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Speaker 1: of staff colonel to the general of Division in the
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Speaker 1: Army of Venezuela and New Granada when he was only
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Speaker 1: thirty years old, and he was kicking keysters and taking names.
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Speaker 1: He fought in a ton of battles and still leagued
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Speaker 1: up with this venezuelan Um revolutionary right, right, And he
12:29
Speaker 1: became known for these epic campaigns and his role in
12:34
Speaker 1: these pivotal, decisive battles attracts national attention. And and Simon Bolivar,
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Speaker 1: who we mentioned just a second ago, also comes in
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Speaker 1: person to award McGregor these various accolades for his actions
12:50
Speaker 1: of wartime. Yeah, like serious accolades he was awarded, Uh,
12:54
Speaker 1: the insignia of the Order of the Libertatores, which was
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Speaker 1: the name of the militaristic group that Boulivard headed up.
13:02
Speaker 1: And McGregor was more than ready and willing to capitalize
13:08
Speaker 1: on these accolades, um, you know, in in in order
13:12
Speaker 1: to earn some serious coin. Yes. Yeah, he got married
13:18
Speaker 1: again to a relative of the Supreme Commander Boulevard. And
13:25
Speaker 1: he also found that peace was sort of a letdown
13:30
Speaker 1: to him, you know. Yeah, I mean not only that,
13:33
Speaker 1: it's just like in peace, there's there's no money to
13:35
Speaker 1: be made, and that's what he was after. Where's the
13:38
Speaker 1: next Griffin? Yeah exactly, I mean because I don't know,
13:41
Speaker 1: it's weird he's he's up to now? He does. He
13:44
Speaker 1: certainly is part of some some conflicts that make him
13:47
Speaker 1: seem like you could view him as some kind of
13:49
Speaker 1: like military genius or you know, some kind of like
13:52
Speaker 1: war hero. But it does feel like he was rising
13:55
Speaker 1: in the ranks all the while, sometimes using payoffs and
13:59
Speaker 1: sometimes um you know, throwing people out of the bus
14:02
Speaker 1: and using people for their influence. But it all seemed
14:05
Speaker 1: pretty self serving. But I don't know, maybe that's just politics. Yeah, yeah,
14:09
Speaker 1: maybe it is, because he continued fighting his own kind
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Speaker 1: of private war, and so after his time in Venezuela,
14:18
Speaker 1: where he finds peace, anti climactic and let's be honest,
14:21
Speaker 1: not all that profitable, he leads a series of independent
14:25
Speaker 1: military campaigns in the Caribbean, and History dot Com has
14:30
Speaker 1: a great as a great article on this by Evan Andrews,
14:34
Speaker 1: but I won't want to read the title yet because
14:36
Speaker 1: we don't want to spoil the story. He did something
14:39
Speaker 1: pretty interesting. He just arbitrarily would promote the people who
14:44
Speaker 1: worked for him, the different freebooters that he was hiring
14:47
Speaker 1: and mercenaries and like, oh, I like the cut of
14:50
Speaker 1: your jib. You're you're a lieutenant. Now my crew, right.
14:54
Speaker 1: And his big tent campaign in this period of his
14:59
Speaker 1: life was the brief capture of Florida's Amelia Island from
15:03
Speaker 1: the Spanish. He also was not the most impressive military commander,
15:10
Speaker 1: at least by this point. He was known to immediately
15:14
Speaker 1: desert his army. There you go, here's some chinks in
15:18
Speaker 1: the armor been given. He was because he cultivated his
15:20
Speaker 1: image of himself and then clearly that was more important
15:23
Speaker 1: than actually being you know, a good guy or an
15:25
Speaker 1: effective leader. Yeah, yeah, that's that's the truth. That's what
15:29
Speaker 1: we're alluding to earlier when we talked about his courage
15:32
Speaker 1: and his leadership. It turns out that he as long
15:35
Speaker 1: as everything was going fine for his army, he was
15:38
Speaker 1: completely on board and down for the cause. However, if
15:43
Speaker 1: things appeared to go south, sideways or pear shaped, as
15:46
Speaker 1: they say in the UK, he would ghost. But he
15:51
Speaker 1: still kept his knack for self promotion and deception. So
15:56
Speaker 1: the accounts he would tell of various military conflicts differed
16:00
Speaker 1: from the accounts everybody else would tell, and he became known,
16:05
Speaker 1: at least in this area of the world. It's very
16:08
Speaker 1: important detail as a bit of a blustering braggart but
16:14
Speaker 1: still still a charmer, just very self aggrandizing and a
16:20
Speaker 1: guy who thought he was the smartest person in the
16:23
Speaker 1: room and was convinced that he could sell anyone on anything. Yeah,
16:29
Speaker 1: and as we're gonna find out, he kind of could. Yes,
16:32
Speaker 1: should we just jump there? Oh, we definitely should we
16:41
Speaker 1: can jump there? In the form of a slight lead
16:43
Speaker 1: up in that he kind of waged what the History
16:46
Speaker 1: Today article very ustuely describes as a private war where
16:49
Speaker 1: he um Included in that was that capture of that
16:53
Speaker 1: fortress that you mentioned. But most importantly him and his associates,
16:58
Speaker 1: these this band of brigging. I guess that he's sort
17:00
Speaker 1: of a masked landed on the mainland of Nicaragua, um
17:05
Speaker 1: where there is a stretch of coast, a region called
17:09
Speaker 1: the Mosquito Coast, yes, also known as the Mosquito Kingdom. Yeah,
17:16
Speaker 1: this is this is an important part here. Nowadays it's
17:23
Speaker 1: the eastern coast of Nicaragua and Honduras. Just a little
17:26
Speaker 1: bit of southern Honduras shares this area, but the Mosquito
17:30
Speaker 1: Coast was generally thought of as the domain of the
17:35
Speaker 1: Mosquito or Mosquito Kingdom, and they had an interesting tension
17:42
Speaker 1: in this area between the British, the US and the
17:47
Speaker 1: countries of Nicaragua and Honduras, not to mention the Native America,
17:52
Speaker 1: the native people Indians, right, yeah, And we had a
17:56
Speaker 1: strange situation here because the Mosquito people had their own
18:02
Speaker 1: rulers or kings, and they had a specific name, right Yeah,
18:07
Speaker 1: that's right, man. They had something of a king who
18:10
Speaker 1: was called the Casque series of kings, Yes, series of kings.
18:13
Speaker 1: This is the Cassique King of the Mosquito Indians. Um,
18:17
Speaker 1: and this individual made a bit of a devil's bargain
18:22
Speaker 1: with our boy McGregor. Yeah. And so for context, the Cassique,
18:27
Speaker 1: the kings of the this area of the Mosquio people,
18:31
Speaker 1: allowed foreigners to settle in their lands so long as
18:36
Speaker 1: their overall sovereignty was respected. And a lot of British
18:41
Speaker 1: merchants and Garifuna people from Honduras took advantage of this.
18:46
Speaker 1: And one of these kings, one of these kausikuess makes
18:49
Speaker 1: a deal with Gregor McGregor four. I believe it was
18:55
Speaker 1: thirty thirty miles of land and it was on what's
19:00
Speaker 1: known as the Poias Shore. Uh. And so with that
19:04
Speaker 1: land grant, that surely was on the up and up,
19:08
Speaker 1: and he made this deal right, surely, every all the
19:11
Speaker 1: all the teas were crossed and the eyes were dotted. Yeah,
19:13
Speaker 1: I'm convinced. Yeah. So, with this deal having been made,
19:18
Speaker 1: McGregor makes his way back to England, to London in particular, uh,
19:24
Speaker 1: making some pretty outrageous claims. Right. Yeah. So after he
19:29
Speaker 1: makes a steal in eighteen twenty, he becomes a whole
19:32
Speaker 1: new Gregor McGregor. He is the Prince of Poias. Uh.
19:37
Speaker 1: He's named his newfound dominion Poias, and boy is Poios
19:42
Speaker 1: a great place. This is where we see the inspiration
19:46
Speaker 1: he received from Miranda's vision of a new Incoln Empire.
19:50
Speaker 1: Popping back up again, he described this place in very hyperbolic, fascinating,
19:58
Speaker 1: almost too good to be truish terms. Yeah, like stuff
20:02
Speaker 1: like flowing with milk and honey, you know, fruit trees
20:06
Speaker 1: spilling with delicious ripe fruit water so pure that that
20:11
Speaker 1: it would quench any thirst. I think was one of
20:13
Speaker 1: them right then, and he claimed he was the Kazique
20:17
Speaker 1: or the king slash prince of this area, and that
20:21
Speaker 1: this was an obscure but prosperous nation. And not only
20:26
Speaker 1: was it a hidden gem across the sea, but it
20:30
Speaker 1: was an act now situation because you see, Londoners, you
20:35
Speaker 1: too can be part of the dream. The kazk of
20:39
Speaker 1: Poyas has come on a mission to solicit investments and
20:45
Speaker 1: to recruit potential settlers. Right. And there's a super cool
20:49
Speaker 1: exert from a book by Maria Knakova that is on
20:53
Speaker 1: the BBC um that talks about some of the psychological
20:57
Speaker 1: principles of persuasion that con men used, in particular that
21:02
Speaker 1: Gregor McGregor used, do you want to talk through some
21:04
Speaker 1: of those? Sure, let's let's round robin it. There are six.
21:08
Speaker 1: The first is reciprocity. Reciprocity, I'll scratch your back, you
21:12
Speaker 1: scratch my coming from McGregor. Hey, I'm giving you this
21:16
Speaker 1: chance of a lifetime. All you gotta do for me
21:18
Speaker 1: is give me all your money. And then consistency of behavior,
21:22
Speaker 1: meaning that whether it is true or a lie, I
21:26
Speaker 1: am going to believe the same thing I did yesterday,
21:30
Speaker 1: right right exactly. Then we have social validation, which is
21:33
Speaker 1: super important because it's basically like, if I'm saying to you, Ben, Ben,
21:39
Speaker 1: you've gotta do this. It's gonna make you a real,
21:42
Speaker 1: real true scotsman, a real true man's man, Robinson Crusoe type,
21:48
Speaker 1: you know, going out and taming the wilds. And at
21:50
Speaker 1: the same time it's gonna be awesome, so don't worry
21:52
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, And there's there's a clever thing there too,
21:55
Speaker 1: because the social validation there is I have typically chosen
22:00
Speaker 1: you to be part of this for your merits that
22:03
Speaker 1: are just on display, but I want you to be
22:07
Speaker 1: part of my new utopia. Also, this is just between us.
22:11
Speaker 1: I like you as a person. That's number four. You know,
22:15
Speaker 1: we're we're friends, were buddies, were you know, your your
22:19
Speaker 1: pal with the Kazique of Poia. How cool is that?
22:22
Speaker 1: And here's a really important way and you see, it's funny.
22:24
Speaker 1: You can see a mix of these being used and
22:27
Speaker 1: everything from like offers on Facebook and things too, like
22:30
Speaker 1: ticket sales. You notice how every time you see an
22:33
Speaker 1: ad for like concert tickets, they always say, really going quick, quick,
22:38
Speaker 1: get them now. You gotta get them while they're hot,
22:40
Speaker 1: because there's just not enough to go around. Because it's
22:42
Speaker 1: just such an amazing opportunity. Um. And if you don't
22:45
Speaker 1: do it, somebody else will, so you better hop on it.
22:48
Speaker 1: And then finally, what do we have? Yes, finally authority.
22:53
Speaker 1: I know what I am talking about. And not only that,
22:57
Speaker 1: this is my favorite part of this whole story. Actually
23:00
Speaker 1: McGregor actually wrote a book, yes, under an assumed name,
23:07
Speaker 1: um called Sketch of the Mosquito Shore including the Territory
23:12
Speaker 1: of Poias. And it was written by a man by
23:17
Speaker 1: the name of Thomas Strange Ways. Thomas Strange Ways, Captain
23:23
Speaker 1: Thomas Strange Yes, Captain Thomas exactly. But yeah, I mean
23:29
Speaker 1: everything all signs point to this was in fact McGregor,
23:33
Speaker 1: so he was like laying the groundwork for this griff.
23:36
Speaker 1: This is a long con man. Yeah, and people did
23:39
Speaker 1: not have the same I guess I don't want to
23:43
Speaker 1: say where withal, but they didn't have the same resources,
23:45
Speaker 1: access to fact checking that we have today to verify information.
23:50
Speaker 1: So Tom is strange Ways. Excuse me again. Captain Thomas
23:53
Speaker 1: strange Ways just had a really interesting name, sounded like
23:57
Speaker 1: a great well traveled adventurer, and in very idyllic bucolic terms,
24:04
Speaker 1: described this hitherto unknown nation of poo. Yeah, and he
24:09
Speaker 1: described it just as we described it, and just as
24:11
Speaker 1: McGregor described it as this place, oh gold just overflowing
24:15
Speaker 1: from the river everywhere, just everywhere, lousy with gold. And
24:19
Speaker 1: here's the thing with that authority point of persuasion, this
24:22
Speaker 1: makes it even better because he's saying, don't don't take
24:25
Speaker 1: my word for it. Check out this guy, Captain strange Ways.
24:28
Speaker 1: He's been there, He wrote a book about who would
24:31
Speaker 1: write a book about it if it wasn't true. Yeah,
24:33
Speaker 1: I was quite delighted to find that my tiny, beautiful
24:38
Speaker 1: nation was the subject of a book you seem well
24:41
Speaker 1: read you've surely heard of the sketches right here. Here's
24:45
Speaker 1: a little little little spit from the preface uh Mosquito Show,
24:49
Speaker 1: including the territory of Poias being impressed with a thorough
24:54
Speaker 1: conviction of the immense benefit which not only the native
24:58
Speaker 1: tribes of Mosquitia, but the neighboring countries in general, must
25:02
Speaker 1: derive from the civilization an improvement of one of the
25:05
Speaker 1: fairest portions of the globe. Has endeavored in the following
25:09
Speaker 1: sheets to attract the attention of enlightened Europeans to the subject,
25:13
Speaker 1: by combining the knowledge of its history, natural productions, the
25:17
Speaker 1: best mode of culture, and et cetera, which he acquired
25:21
Speaker 1: during a portion of his life spent in that part
25:23
Speaker 1: of the world. This is was that you're Matt Berry.
25:26
Speaker 1: I don't know kind of it was. It was it
25:27
Speaker 1: was yeah, y no. But so this is this is
25:30
Speaker 1: so mata because this is McGregor writing a preface like
25:34
Speaker 1: you know himself for strange for strange ways, who is
25:38
Speaker 1: also himself And it's it's long preface. We know that
25:41
Speaker 1: sounded like a lot thing, but that's just a exerpt.
25:43
Speaker 1: It's just an exer But the point is it's from
25:44
Speaker 1: the start. It reads like a treatise for how awesome
25:48
Speaker 1: this place is. It's like like a timeshare pamphlet or
25:52
Speaker 1: an infomercial that purports to be a documentary. Right and
25:55
Speaker 1: at this time, now that he's reinvented himself as the Kazique,
25:59
Speaker 1: as he Highness Gregor, he is a fixture in London's
26:04
Speaker 1: high society. Wealthy aristocrats set him and his wife up
26:08
Speaker 1: in a country home. The Lord Mayor holds a banquet
26:12
Speaker 1: in his honor and people start to trust him because
26:17
Speaker 1: he's charming, and he cites all his past military achievements,
26:20
Speaker 1: and you know what, I've got to stop just for
26:22
Speaker 1: a second. Strange ways is just such a terrible, terrible name.
26:27
Speaker 1: It's like Timmy McGreal name. I mean, Gregor McGregor's not
26:31
Speaker 1: grave either, yeah, but it's real. Yeah, but that's the
26:34
Speaker 1: real one. That's just so weird. I'm not making fun
26:36
Speaker 1: of Scottish names. I just think any name were like
26:38
Speaker 1: the first name in the last name or the same
26:40
Speaker 1: inherently absurd sounding to me. But that's just my opinion. Yeah, yeah,
26:44
Speaker 1: there's you know, Humbert, Humbert, all that sort of stuff.
26:48
Speaker 1: But even though he's Gregor McGregor. Excuse me, his highness,
26:52
Speaker 1: the Kazique Gregor. He is really and genuinely winning people
26:58
Speaker 1: over because he doesn't us come with great stories. He
27:01
Speaker 1: doesn't just come with a book that he didn't write.
27:06
Speaker 1: He also, you see, has tons and tons of official documents,
27:10
Speaker 1: all kinds of paperwork. He has a handwritten land grant
27:14
Speaker 1: from the Mosquito King, which is a great band name. Uh.
27:18
Speaker 1: He has a national flag. He has charts and maps
27:21
Speaker 1: showing the location and border of poy Us. Think he
27:24
Speaker 1: even had some currency from the Bank of poi Us. Yes,
27:27
Speaker 1: he has currency. I think they call it what one
27:30
Speaker 1: hard note? Oh, and it says at the bottom, by
27:32
Speaker 1: order of his Highness Gregor Kazke of Pus. Yes, and uh.
27:37
Speaker 1: He the problem with all this stuff one hard dollar
27:41
Speaker 1: one hard dollar, which is a weird phrase. Yeah, But
27:45
Speaker 1: the problem with all of this documentation is that almost
27:50
Speaker 1: all of it is entirely fabricated by him. He has
27:56
Speaker 1: he has made up these dollars. And remember that crazy
27:59
Speaker 1: fraudulent music festival called Firefest that happened last year with
28:04
Speaker 1: the jaw rule. I think I think rule was involved,
28:07
Speaker 1: that's right. But basically what it was was a total
28:09
Speaker 1: bait and switch where they were selling these premium packages
28:12
Speaker 1: to you know, rabid bougie concert goers to go to
28:16
Speaker 1: this like private island where this concert was going to
28:19
Speaker 1: be held, and everyone showed up and they were expecting
28:23
Speaker 1: all these crazy accommodations and like there was nothing. It
28:27
Speaker 1: was just trash. It was these like crappy tents. There
28:30
Speaker 1: was just like you know, sand no way, just just
28:33
Speaker 1: just totally filthy and and absolute, you know, just complete grift.
28:39
Speaker 1: That's what the the handful of hapless settlers who abandoned
28:44
Speaker 1: their homes for a better life under the benevolent uh
28:50
Speaker 1: you know, hand of the Kazik of of Poias, that's
28:54
Speaker 1: what they found. Well, yeah, it sounds crazy, but let's
28:56
Speaker 1: let's step back a little and see how it happened.
28:59
Speaker 1: Because he flew its two pounds sterling Poias bond in
29:03
Speaker 1: the London money market, and then he also starts selling
29:06
Speaker 1: land and titles. Two would be colonists and you could
29:10
Speaker 1: get a pretty good deal. For just eleven pounds, you
29:13
Speaker 1: could purchase one hundred acres of Poia farmland, and if
29:18
Speaker 1: you were a little more well to do, you could
29:21
Speaker 1: buy a post as an officer in the military the
29:25
Speaker 1: same way the Kazeke became. Yeah, well, you know, paying forward,
29:30
Speaker 1: paying forward, you know, in the sleaziest way possible. And
29:33
Speaker 1: how crazy that the value of those bonds you mentioned
29:37
Speaker 1: just balloon over time. Yeah. Yeah, And in September eighteen two,
29:45
Speaker 1: a ship called the Honduras Packet set sail from London
29:50
Speaker 1: with as as you said, a handful of people bound
29:54
Speaker 1: for Poia, probably with their land deeds clutched in their hands.
29:59
Speaker 1: And that first ship only took about what several dozen people. Yeah,
30:05
Speaker 1: and there's a second one called the Kinnersley Castle. Um,
30:08
Speaker 1: and I believe between the two there was two d
30:10
Speaker 1: and fifty folks in total. And they were just expecting paradise,
30:15
Speaker 1: you know, as as as well they should have given,
30:19
Speaker 1: you know, the salesmanship of of our guy McGregor. Yeah.
30:24
Speaker 1: So these people who are called powers, most of them
30:28
Speaker 1: invested their entire life savings in this journey. As you said, Nold,
30:32
Speaker 1: they sold their houses. Somebody even converted all their cash
30:36
Speaker 1: to hard poised dollars. Shaking my head. I feel bad
30:39
Speaker 1: for these hapless SAPs, but terrible you know. At the
30:42
Speaker 1: same time, Again, though things were not so hot in
30:46
Speaker 1: the in the world at large, and certainly the kind
30:48
Speaker 1: of people that maybe would look at this as an
30:50
Speaker 1: opportunity to start again. Uh. You know, Scotland is pretty bleak,
30:54
Speaker 1: the weather is not great. Um it felt like maybe
30:58
Speaker 1: too some this was a way to break out of
31:00
Speaker 1: their kind of typical humdrum routine and start a new
31:05
Speaker 1: life for what seemed like a too good to pass
31:08
Speaker 1: up deal. Which is another part of manipulative techniques of grifters,
31:12
Speaker 1: is the idea if there's two notions, One is you're
31:15
Speaker 1: spurring somebody towards making a decision that you want them
31:18
Speaker 1: to make, and also making sure that the decision seems
31:21
Speaker 1: like something that they would be too. It would be
31:24
Speaker 1: a fool to to reject this offer because it's just
31:26
Speaker 1: like a no brainer, right Yeah, And it's also very helpful.
31:29
Speaker 1: You know you've done well when they feel as though
31:32
Speaker 1: it is their own idea. Hey, Kazeke, you and I
31:36
Speaker 1: are friends, right, you know what, Poya sounds so good
31:39
Speaker 1: that I would like to go. Uh. Napoleon has just
31:43
Speaker 1: been defeated, the British economy is expanding, and you know,
31:48
Speaker 1: I'm in a good mood. I think it's a it's
31:50
Speaker 1: a time to make a change right. And this works
31:55
Speaker 1: very well for the Kazique at first. But for these
31:59
Speaker 1: poor investors, the poia they were promised is not the
32:03
Speaker 1: poia they find when they land. Now, is that firefest situation? Exactly?
32:09
Speaker 1: They see no farmland. They see mile after mile of dense,
32:13
Speaker 1: nigh impenetrable jungle, and they are wondering, you know, where,
32:19
Speaker 1: where is all the crystal clear water, Where is all
32:22
Speaker 1: the abundant, rich soil we were promised? Where the heck
32:26
Speaker 1: is the civilization you told us about. Here's a fantastic
32:34
Speaker 1: excerpt from an account of the time that was reprinted
32:38
Speaker 1: in The Guardian recently. Yeah, this from the Guardian archive
32:42
Speaker 1: was in print the October eight three, by the time
32:47
Speaker 1: that a couple of settlers had made it back. So
32:52
Speaker 1: here's here it goes. When the immigrants arrived at San Joseph,
32:55
Speaker 1: nothing could exceed their anguish on finding where they expected
32:59
Speaker 1: a fine, flourishing town with nearly two thousand inhabitants, only
33:03
Speaker 1: two or three ruined huts. The party exerted themselves vigorously
33:07
Speaker 1: clearing away some stunted mahogany trees from about six yards
33:11
Speaker 1: of sandy ground and erecting a number of little huts
33:13
Speaker 1: and tents with blankets to protect them from the weather.
33:16
Speaker 1: Nearly all of their provisions, however, had been wet and landing,
33:19
Speaker 1: as they had been compelled to roll all their barrels
33:22
Speaker 1: for a considerable distance through salt water. The sun in
33:25
Speaker 1: the daytime was intolerably hot, and the nights were cold
33:29
Speaker 1: with heavy rain. Uh So what ended up happening was
33:33
Speaker 1: a lot of people died. They got very sick, and
33:36
Speaker 1: because the water was not that pure clean drinking you
33:40
Speaker 1: know water that was described, it was brackish and contaminated
33:45
Speaker 1: with animal waste as well. So in a very short
33:48
Speaker 1: amount of time, I think twenty people died and everyone
33:52
Speaker 1: who didn't die got sick. And along comes the real
33:58
Speaker 1: because Eque, the of the Mosquito Indians, he visits them
34:03
Speaker 1: to see what's going on. He are you guys right,
34:06
Speaker 1: And we have an excerpt that explains this situation pretty well.
34:11
Speaker 1: Try to imagine the king's utter bafflement here. He afterwards
34:16
Speaker 1: sent a letter stating that he had made a grant
34:18
Speaker 1: of thirty miles of land on the Poyas Shore to
34:21
Speaker 1: Sir Gregor McGregor three years ago, but that quote unquote
34:27
Speaker 1: Sir Gregor, having until that time neglected to take possession.
34:31
Speaker 1: He considered the grant as void, and that had he
34:35
Speaker 1: then known Sir Gregor as he did now, he would
34:38
Speaker 1: never have made the grant. He would oppose the settlement
34:42
Speaker 1: of anyone belonging to Sir Gregor within his territory, and
34:46
Speaker 1: prescribed as the condition of their remaining in peace, that
34:50
Speaker 1: they should abjure Sir Gregor and swear allegiance to him. So,
34:54
Speaker 1: in other words, he became aware of what a bastard
34:57
Speaker 1: Gregor was. Yeah, utter mustard. And so at this stage
35:03
Speaker 1: he also threatens some of these settlers. He says, and
35:06
Speaker 1: we'll paraphrase here, that he could call up seven thousand
35:10
Speaker 1: natives and cut off the entire settler community at one blow.
35:16
Speaker 1: But by this point, and by their own admission, the
35:20
Speaker 1: settlers felt themselves past fear. Death was killing everybody off,
35:26
Speaker 1: just as surely as the Mosquito king was threatening to do.
35:30
Speaker 1: Bad times. Man, there's a really sad little account of
35:33
Speaker 1: a man who was a shoemaker who was declared to
35:38
Speaker 1: be the official shoemaker of the Princess of Poia, whoever
35:43
Speaker 1: that was, and he apparently got so sick that he
35:47
Speaker 1: took his own life by shooting himself while laying dying
35:50
Speaker 1: in a hammock. Yep and six men tried to get
35:55
Speaker 1: to Honduras in a canoe. They ended up being castaways,
36:01
Speaker 1: but they were rescued by a guy named Mr Bennett,
36:05
Speaker 1: who was a Mahogany merchant and an overall stand up dude.
36:10
Speaker 1: He learned of what was happening. Thank God for Mr Bennett. Yeah,
36:14
Speaker 1: and he sent a ship to take as many settlers
36:18
Speaker 1: as he could to a hospital in Honduras and to
36:22
Speaker 1: fetch the rest of them on the second trip. However,
36:26
Speaker 1: at this point, the situation is still fraught with danger
36:31
Speaker 1: because we mentioned how Durast Package. Right, that's the first
36:35
Speaker 1: ship with about fifty people. We mentioned Kennersley Castle. That's
36:39
Speaker 1: the second ship with about two people. There were two
36:43
Speaker 1: other ships on the way. There was the Albion, which
36:48
Speaker 1: was the third vessel to bring settlers. It was diverted
36:51
Speaker 1: to Belize after they discovered that the previous settlers had abandoned.
36:55
Speaker 1: This is so firefest dude, This is like, I mean,
36:58
Speaker 1: this is literally what happened with firefests. People got trapped
37:00
Speaker 1: on the island and they couldn't fly out a much
37:02
Speaker 1: bougier version of this. But I wonder if if Jah
37:05
Speaker 1: Rule or whoever the hell was responsible for that looked
37:07
Speaker 1: at this story as like an inspiration. Yeah, And the
37:11
Speaker 1: the other ship the scheme was sent bringing arms and
37:15
Speaker 1: supplies also diverted to Belize, and there are also reports
37:20
Speaker 1: that five other vessels were on the way. But in
37:24
Speaker 1: a massive stroke of luck for these vessels, word reached
37:27
Speaker 1: Britain that Poia was entirely made up by that time.
37:32
Speaker 1: So the British Royal Navy intercepted these other five ships
37:35
Speaker 1: and turned them back. And again this all happened because
37:40
Speaker 1: there was such a scarcity of information, and it took
37:43
Speaker 1: forever two contact people, especially over those long distances. All
37:49
Speaker 1: in all, McGregor's swindle here raised two hundred thousand pounds,
37:55
Speaker 1: but nol what happened when people found out about this,
37:58
Speaker 1: They were they were justifiably enraged, um and they were
38:03
Speaker 1: thirsty for McGregor's blood. But by this point he had
38:06
Speaker 1: already high tailed it out of the country and posted
38:08
Speaker 1: up in France, or I think he ran a few
38:12
Speaker 1: years more of other scams on the hapless Parisians, and
38:17
Speaker 1: by the way, if we're gonna inflation calculator, that amount
38:21
Speaker 1: of money that he raised, it would be in the
38:23
Speaker 1: billions of dollars. Oh yeah, if we count France. There's
38:27
Speaker 1: a great article from the economists called The King of
38:30
Speaker 1: Khanmen that that does the math for us here. Over
38:34
Speaker 1: his lifetime, those bond market frauds in the in England
38:38
Speaker 1: and in France run to the tune of one point
38:41
Speaker 1: three million And in today's terms, how much is that
38:51
Speaker 1: that would be three point six billion pounds That it's
38:57
Speaker 1: crazy and yeah, and so a big part of this
38:59
Speaker 1: I once he got to Paris too, I mean, I
39:02
Speaker 1: don't know, it must have been part of it for
39:03
Speaker 1: for from the start. But this idea of these gold mines, um,
39:08
Speaker 1: you know, selling these parcels of land with the promise
39:11
Speaker 1: of these imaginary gold mines, um that people would just
39:15
Speaker 1: be able to dislike, stick their hands in the water
39:17
Speaker 1: and just get get gold, right, lousy with gold. But
39:22
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, um in this history to the article,
39:26
Speaker 1: they conjecture that maybe Paris was a little too too
39:29
Speaker 1: hot for McGregor and his crew. They came back to
39:33
Speaker 1: London and thank god is a little come up. It's
39:35
Speaker 1: here they were arrested on site and uh imprisoned in
39:40
Speaker 1: a prison called the Top hill Fields. Yeah. We should
39:44
Speaker 1: note though that when he was in France he was
39:47
Speaker 1: doing the exact same scheme. He didn't even change the
39:50
Speaker 1: name of the country. I think that's part of why
39:52
Speaker 1: he was so quickly caught, you know. And I think
39:55
Speaker 1: I mean I spoke too soon, Ben that come up
39:58
Speaker 1: and was maybe just the humilia sation of being arrested.
40:02
Speaker 1: But as slippery as snake as this dude was, he
40:05
Speaker 1: was able to wriggle his way even out of this one. Yes,
40:10
Speaker 1: that is true. He was in Hillfield's bridewell for about
40:16
Speaker 1: a week before he was released without a charge. And
40:19
Speaker 1: then immediately he starts a newer version of the Poia scheme,
40:24
Speaker 1: and this time he calls himself Kauzek of the Republic
40:27
Speaker 1: of Poias. He sets up a new office and doesn't
40:32
Speaker 1: claim any of the diplomatic status that he had done
40:35
Speaker 1: with the other office, and he starts acting through proxies.
40:40
Speaker 1: He gets another company to act as brokers. Yes, so
40:43
Speaker 1: he basically smartened up his grift a little bit, right
40:46
Speaker 1: and and separated himself from it someone right, and he
40:50
Speaker 1: started selling other versions of this. By the time eighty eight,
40:58
Speaker 1: he was selling certificates entire billing holders to land employ
41:02
Speaker 1: as proper at five shillings per acre. Yeah. Uh. He
41:08
Speaker 1: goes on publishing these various documents papers power at this time,
41:13
Speaker 1: so he he published, it's printed, it must be true, right,
41:17
Speaker 1: Why would you go to the trouble? H He publishes
41:19
Speaker 1: a constitution for a smaller republic headed by himself as president.
41:25
Speaker 1: He eventually, despite all his efforts, has a bit of
41:29
Speaker 1: a come to Jesus moment, as they would call it
41:31
Speaker 1: in the American South, and he understands that the Poia
41:35
Speaker 1: grift is finally done. Everybody knows every course is yeah,
41:40
Speaker 1: because he's he's burned through all his money at this point,
41:44
Speaker 1: he's got no friends left to speak of, and so
41:47
Speaker 1: he goes back to the last place where he felt beloved,
41:51
Speaker 1: which was old Venezuela, where he still had some connects.
41:55
Speaker 1: He didn't screw anybody over there, exactly right, but I
41:57
Speaker 1: can think of. So he went back and actually petitioned
42:01
Speaker 1: the government to give him citizenship and restore his military rank.
42:07
Speaker 1: So he ended his life living in Venezuela um as
42:11
Speaker 1: a general and got a government pension, yeah, back pay
42:16
Speaker 1: as well, and pension. And that's primarily because the Defense
42:19
Speaker 1: Minister had served alongside McGregor in an expedition in eighteen
42:25
Speaker 1: sixteen and said, you know what, this guy is a
42:29
Speaker 1: war hero and this worked. The part of today's Honduras
42:33
Speaker 1: that was called Poia remains undeveloped today. There are no villages,
42:40
Speaker 1: abundant farmland, no gold mines that anyone knows about. But
42:46
Speaker 1: McGregor himself, Old Gregor McGregor passed away a freeman in
42:52
Speaker 1: December four eighteen. One of the greatest grifters ever lived
42:58
Speaker 1: at just an utter sleeps back. He got admire the
43:00
Speaker 1: stones on this guy, though, man, I mean, good lord,
43:04
Speaker 1: just to keep it rolling like this for so long. Yeah,
43:09
Speaker 1: but hopefully a lesson to be learned. And we hope
43:14
Speaker 1: that you enjoyed this episode as well. Thanks so much
43:17
Speaker 1: forgiving us listen enjoyed. That's it's it's it's nothing, it's
43:20
Speaker 1: nothing one of these where yes, it's ridiculous, but god,
43:23
Speaker 1: this guy put some people through the wringer, but I
43:26
Speaker 1: enjoyed learning about it. Yeah, we'll tell us what you think.
43:30
Speaker 1: And you know, really annoying. It's t gentleman Jonathan Strickland,
43:43
Speaker 1: the Quister, speaking of time. It's been a nice little
43:48
Speaker 1: stretch of time since we've had since you've darkened our
43:51
Speaker 1: studio door operative word being a nice stretch. You know,
43:55
Speaker 1: I heard so many complaints about my absence that I
43:58
Speaker 1: could not allow it to continue one breath longer. And
44:04
Speaker 1: so the most cringe worthy segmented all of podcasting has returned.
44:09
Speaker 1: I'm certainly cringing. You're also on a T shirt I
44:12
Speaker 1: has just gone too far. Some nights it's a top seller.
44:17
Speaker 1: So this is, uh, this is our non consensually recurring
44:22
Speaker 1: segment wherein you the Quister also known as Jonathan Strickland,
44:27
Speaker 1: just kind of materializes want right when we think we're
44:32
Speaker 1: going to end the show to test our knowledge of
44:36
Speaker 1: historical fact and fiction? How does this work? I present
44:39
Speaker 1: you a scenario and I give you three minutes to
44:44
Speaker 1: determine whether said scenario in fact represents fact or I
44:49
Speaker 1: made it up. Seats and I could have made up
44:53
Speaker 1: a significant fact within the story and the rest of
44:57
Speaker 1: it be mostly true. And it's still for exies. Right,
45:01
Speaker 1: So you asked me this every time, so I thought
45:03
Speaker 1: I would just get in front of it. This time,
45:06
Speaker 1: because it's like you forget how this game works every
45:10
Speaker 1: time I come in here. So it's not for our benefit, man,
45:12
Speaker 1: it's for the new listeners. You just hear this weirdo
45:15
Speaker 1: popping up out of nowhere, and they want to know
45:17
Speaker 1: what gets I'm just just making sure because every time
45:20
Speaker 1: Ben says it, it's like he legitimately doesn't remember. Yeah,
45:23
Speaker 1: I've got I'm a little concern. I've got a pretty
45:26
Speaker 1: good acting range, or some emergent issues and like the
45:30
Speaker 1: Memento guy. So if it's either all true or or
45:35
Speaker 1: it's fake. So I give you the scenario, and then
45:39
Speaker 1: I come up with some sort of arbitrary rule for
45:44
Speaker 1: you to follow if you want to ask me a question,
45:47
Speaker 1: which I now realize I did not think about before
45:51
Speaker 1: I came in here today. So we're going to say,
45:54
Speaker 1: if you wish to ask a question once the time
45:57
Speaker 1: has started, you will preface that question with alan Zil.
46:04
Speaker 1: You'll understand why. In a moment. I will now read
46:08
Speaker 1: to you the scenario, and then at the conclusion we
46:11
Speaker 1: will start the clock. All right, here we are on
46:14
Speaker 1: August twenty one, nineteen eleven, one of the greatest art
46:19
Speaker 1: heists in history. Took place. A man who styled himself
46:23
Speaker 1: the Marquis at Wardo di Valfierno calmly walked into the
46:27
Speaker 1: louver in Paris, France. He waited until no one was
46:30
Speaker 1: paying attention. He lifted Leonardo da Vinci's Mona Lisa off
46:35
Speaker 1: the wall, slid it under his coat, and calmly walked
46:39
Speaker 1: out of the building. He had already sold the Mona
46:42
Speaker 1: Lisa to an interested buyer. Actually, he had sold it
46:46
Speaker 1: to six different interested buyers, because he had no intention
46:51
Speaker 1: of parting with the real painting, you see, but rather
46:54
Speaker 1: had six forgeries made. It was the perfect crime. The
46:59
Speaker 1: people perch sing the stolen painting would surely not say
47:02
Speaker 1: anything about it, and they'd have no way of knowing
47:05
Speaker 1: about each other. An accomplice named Vincenzo Peruggia was caught
47:12
Speaker 1: supposedly with one of the forgeries. According to this Marquis,
47:16
Speaker 1: Peruggia would be tried for the theft and sentenced to
47:20
Speaker 1: serve out to jail sentence. The copy the forgery, according
47:25
Speaker 1: to Valfierno, would go to the louver where it hangs still.
47:29
Speaker 1: Valfierno told his story to journalist Carl Decker of the
47:33
Speaker 1: Saturday Evening Post years later, the whereabouts of the original
47:37
Speaker 1: Mona Lisa, according to Valfierno, are still unknown begin the time. Okay,
47:45
Speaker 1: first off, there's a lot of according to going on
47:48
Speaker 1: in here, so that guy could be lying, but the
47:50
Speaker 1: story about the lie could be true. Yeah, it's a
47:52
Speaker 1: good point. Then, I don't know. You think it's just
47:54
Speaker 1: to throw us off. I don't know. In the past,
47:57
Speaker 1: the longer ones have been false. But I messed up
48:02
Speaker 1: on that point because I mentioned it in front of
48:05
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, aka the Quister, and he made a face.
48:08
Speaker 1: Yeah he made I'll remember that face. Yeah, yeah, that's
48:13
Speaker 1: miss r Bullin. Does uh? Does anybody else corroborate this
48:20
Speaker 1: story told to the journalist or is it just the
48:22
Speaker 1: one guy? Oh? No, there have been several corroborations. Okay,
48:28
Speaker 1: several credible corroborations. Are you asking me to levy judgment
48:34
Speaker 1: upon those who corroborate the story? That does seem like
48:37
Speaker 1: a stretch pad to answer to answer your to answer
48:40
Speaker 1: your question. The The one account of this full account
48:47
Speaker 1: of this is in a nineteen thirty six Saturday Evening
48:50
Speaker 1: Post article. I seem to recall the Pugio, I apologize
48:56
Speaker 1: a name as being an art like a high art thief,
49:02
Speaker 1: or to something like there was a movie or something
49:04
Speaker 1: about it. But I'm wondering if there was some detail
49:07
Speaker 1: that was incorrect that renders the whole thing. What is
49:15
Speaker 1: the name of the the thief? Again, it would be
49:20
Speaker 1: Marquis Eduardo de Valfier No Peruggio, Peruggio was an accomplice Peruggio. Okay,
49:31
Speaker 1: that's the name that that that that rings about. You
49:34
Speaker 1: want to you want to go for true? All right,
49:37
Speaker 1: let's lock it in three to one true. Oh, I
49:41
Speaker 1: feel so guilty. This one's a tricky one. But no,
49:45
Speaker 1: it's false. It's actually false. You see, you're you're on
49:49
Speaker 1: You're onto something, monsieur bolo. You see this story was
49:53
Speaker 1: in fact told in the Saturday Evening Post in two.
49:56
Speaker 1: But Cocker was an notorious fibber oh man, notorious, and
50:01
Speaker 1: there is absolutely no proof that this ever exists. None
50:06
Speaker 1: of these supposed six forgeries I've ever surfaced. The examination
50:12
Speaker 1: of the Mona Lisa at the Louver has shown that
50:14
Speaker 1: it is in fact the original Mona Lisa in nineteen eleven.
50:17
Speaker 1: The Mona Lisa was not even a famous painting outside
50:20
Speaker 1: of France. No one knew about it. Yeah, but Peruggia
50:22
Speaker 1: did steal the Marugia did steal the Mona Lisa in
50:26
Speaker 1: nineteen eleven with two Italian accomplices. They spent the night
50:30
Speaker 1: in a janitorial broom closet, woke up in the next morning,
50:33
Speaker 1: and then well didn't even wake up. They stayed awake
50:36
Speaker 1: the whole time, snuck out the next morning with the
50:38
Speaker 1: Mona Lisa. Perugia kept it, was afraid to try it,
50:42
Speaker 1: even fitness it for almost two years. Finally get tried
50:45
Speaker 1: to do it in Florence, and the art dealer in Florence,
50:49
Speaker 1: said hang On, alerted the authorities. Perugia was in fact
50:54
Speaker 1: arrested and tried for the crime and sent it to jail.
50:59
Speaker 1: You know how long the sentence was for stealing the
51:01
Speaker 1: Mona Lisa, one of the most famous paintings in all
51:04
Speaker 1: the world. More than a year, eight months, eight months
51:08
Speaker 1: months was all. The Mona Lisa was not very famous
51:11
Speaker 1: in nineteen And also there was another event that ended
51:16
Speaker 1: up superseding, eclipsing you might say this story, and that
51:20
Speaker 1: little event was the Great War broke out in Europe,
51:23
Speaker 1: and that no one really cared about an art thief
51:26
Speaker 1: at that point. But yes, this so the story was published.
51:32
Speaker 1: Carl Decker did write an article that made these claims,
51:36
Speaker 1: saying that he had met this Marquis Eduardo Valfierno back
51:40
Speaker 1: in nineteen fourteen, but there's no proof that such a
51:43
Speaker 1: man ever existed, no proof that any forgeries were ever made,
51:47
Speaker 1: and in fact, there are many parts of his story
51:50
Speaker 1: decker story, that resemble an earlier story that was published
51:53
Speaker 1: in nineteen ten about another self styled nobleman, Count Dolby,
51:59
Speaker 1: who was to sell forgeries to American millionaires. You know
52:02
Speaker 1: what though, Okay, first off, thank you. That is an
52:05
Speaker 1: excellent explanation. But I am going to argue that this
52:11
Speaker 1: is a draw due to the complicated and uh unexplored
52:18
Speaker 1: territory that this question represents. It's funny because I'm the
52:21
Speaker 1: one who's in charge of the game I say I want.
52:24
Speaker 1: Besides what you said the last time that it was
52:27
Speaker 1: an easy one, So now on they're going to be
52:31
Speaker 1: really hard. You knows me. Sorry, guys, you know what
52:35
Speaker 1: I've kind of You've worn me down to the point
52:37
Speaker 1: where I just can't even get upset about this anymore. Um,
52:41
Speaker 1: and I'm fine with just I'm a gluten for punishment.
52:43
Speaker 1: Let's keep let's keep this rolling again. We'll make it fair.
52:46
Speaker 1: Next time I make one up, I will make one up.
52:49
Speaker 1: I will not take some other famous fraud and then
52:53
Speaker 1: presented as if it were true. Because you may remember,
52:57
Speaker 1: Oh I hear, remember hearing that story, right, realtor, I'll
53:02
Speaker 1: be more honest in my dishonesty. Great. Well, you're clever
53:07
Speaker 1: antagonist for sure, and this would usually be a great
53:12
Speaker 1: casey on the case moment. But he will have to
53:15
Speaker 1: accuse himself because he is actually friends with all of
53:18
Speaker 1: us and may have a difficult time being impartial. However,
53:22
Speaker 1: we do want to thank you for coming on the
53:24
Speaker 1: show and helping us in our fellow ridiculous historians learn
53:27
Speaker 1: a little bit more about art heist. And I hope
53:30
Speaker 1: the share length of this one made up for the
53:32
Speaker 1: last two shorties that we put out there, we go,
53:35
Speaker 1: that's a good way to look at it. You're nailing
53:38
Speaker 1: these in quantity, I make up for in quantity. So
53:43
Speaker 1: we want to thank everybody. Of course, thank you. Jonathan Strickland,
53:47
Speaker 1: a k a. The Quister. Thanks to Christopher hasci otis
53:51
Speaker 1: our research associate for today's episode. Thanks to super producer
53:55
Speaker 1: Casey Pegram Alex Williams, who composed our theme Jonathan, I
53:59
Speaker 1: can take him or leave. And thanks to you, Ben,
54:01
Speaker 1: thanks to you big, thanks to you, thank you man whatever,
54:10
Speaker 1: and thanks to you folks listening public for for listening. Yeah.
54:14
Speaker 1: Find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, you can join our
54:19
Speaker 1: community page, which we're big fans of Ridiculous Historians. Jonathan
54:23
Speaker 1: drops by there as well on occasion. If you want
54:26
Speaker 1: to learn more about Jonathan when he is not in
54:29
Speaker 1: his alter ego, you can find him on tech Stuff
54:33
Speaker 1: and several other shows. Isn't that correct? Tech Stuff is
54:36
Speaker 1: primary show, and I've got other ones coming up soon.
54:39
Speaker 1: And well you're trying to drink me, we're still nemeses. Yeah,
54:46
Speaker 1: thank you for the shout out. Oh yeah, of course.
54:48
Speaker 1: Uh and and that's it, mold. Do you want to
54:51
Speaker 1: go out and grift some people, like in a harmless
54:53
Speaker 1: fun way, like steal candies from some babies or something? Yeah?
54:57
Speaker 1: Did some Dennis the Menace type drifting victimless crimes? Yes,
55:00
Speaker 1: sure