Latest / The Breakfast Club / From The Chi to Real Life: Lena Waithe on Black Love, Healing & Community

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From The Chi to Real Life: Lena Waithe on Black Love, Healing & Community · The Breakfast Club

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm a homegrow that knows a little bit about everything
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: and everybody.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: You don't know if you don't lie about that.
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: Right, Hey, y'all, what's up.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: It's Laura l Rosa and this is another episode of
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  Speaker 1: the Latest with Laura l Rosa. This is your daily
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  Speaker 1: dig on all things pop culture, entertainment news, and all
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: of the conversations that shake the room.
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  Speaker 3: Baby.
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  Speaker 1: I've been bringing y'all some real good things, okay, because
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: you guys always tell me, whether it's we're talking on
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: social media or are running to you in person, that
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: you guys love when we do the entertainment news breakdowns.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: But the top of y'all list that you guys love
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: to hear is the exclusives, which is where we bring
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: you the news first here at the Latest with Laura
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: l Rosa, which you champion, but also the conversations that
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: shake the room, especially if you guys are hearing it
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: here first. Now, I was, you know, privileged to be
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: able to attend a premiere for The Shy. The Shy
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: is a TV series that has been on on Now
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  Speaker 1: for eight seasons now. If you guys are not familiar
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: with The Shy, this is a show that was created
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  Speaker 1: by Lena Wath, who has done some amazing things, especially
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: for us in the television and movie space. But this
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  Speaker 1: show was created by Lena Waith and The Shy. It
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: takes its own narrative about what living in Chicago is like.
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  Speaker 1: And I think what The Shy did over the eight
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  Speaker 1: seasons that we were blessed to have The Shy on
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  Speaker 1: air was it showed us that sometimes what we need
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: to read on the news and you know, what we
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: hear in the headlines and what we hear people tend
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  Speaker 1: to focus on when it comes to our communities, these black,
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  Speaker 1: heavily black, and then brown communities, it ain't always what
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: it's hyped up.
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  Speaker 3: To be at all.
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  Speaker 1: Underneath all of that, and yes, it is there and
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  Speaker 1: we are not going to ignore it. There's a lot
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  Speaker 1: of love, there's a lot of community. Anybody from an
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  Speaker 1: inner city can fill me Womanton Delaware is y'all like
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: to play with Delaware talk about how small we are,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: but it is very much that. It is very much
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  Speaker 1: so community. It is very much show growth. It is
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  Speaker 1: a stumping ground. It is a place to become who
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  Speaker 1: you are going to give the world. And we got
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  Speaker 1: to watch the cast of the Shy over these last
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  Speaker 1: eight seasons become who they are going to give the
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  Speaker 1: world in this final season. So the final season, the
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  Speaker 1: eighth season, will premiere on May twenty second. And there
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: was a premier conversation in party that went down here
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  Speaker 1: in New York City that I got a chance to attend,
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  Speaker 1: and we were blessed to be in live conversation with
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  Speaker 1: Lena waithe Now this was a Q and A about
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  Speaker 1: the Shy, about the final season and just you know
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  Speaker 1: what we can come to expect as we see these
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  Speaker 1: things now.
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  Speaker 3: Michael V.
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  Speaker 1: Epps who plays Jake Taylor, Jacob Lattimore who plays Emmett
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  Speaker 1: Yolanda Ross who plays Jada that's in its mom on
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  Speaker 1: the show, Alex R. Hibbert who plays Kevin Burgundy Baker
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  Speaker 1: who plays Keisha Williams who is Kevin and Keisha are
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  Speaker 1: brother and sister on the show. You also have Aman
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Shumper who was on the show for some time, Luke
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: James Barton, Fitzpatrick Tyler, Acambri, Mariam A. Hyman Common, Candy
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  Speaker 1: Burst was on the show. Anthony made a premiere performance,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Corey Hardrick, Tapatha Brown. There have been the Brat There
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  Speaker 1: have been so many people that have blessed The Shy's stage,
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  Speaker 1: the legendary Lynn Whitfield over these eight seasons, and Lena,
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  Speaker 1: Lena did that. She put this together. But let's get
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: into the conversation where Lena Waite is guiding us through
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  Speaker 1: what we can expect in this eighth season of the
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  Speaker 1: show and just why what she's doing in storytelling as
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  Speaker 1: a black person, shaping our narrative through it with black
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  Speaker 1: people on TV is important. And I mean at the
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: you gotta look out for the last season to go
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  Speaker 1: watch The Shy. Right, Let's get into it.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: So Leo told me not to be with the bullshit
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  Speaker 3: in the card. So but I I got to be
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  Speaker 3: a little bit with the bullshit.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: In the car.
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  Speaker 3: What's up?
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  Speaker 4: I said, Hey, y'all, I'm a great They came out.
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  Speaker 3: For you, my love.
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  Speaker 5: Wow, well I came out for them, Okay, So we
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: came out for each other.
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  Speaker 2: Yes we did, Yes we did. This is so good
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  Speaker 2: to see, y'all. It's just saying I just said, like,
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  Speaker 2: you don't need the cards, I.
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  Speaker 5: Know, because we have and all the.
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  Speaker 3: Good job. I gotta look through my love, what Yes
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: we can, We're gonna do a little freestyle, but we
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: got to get to the situation of situation. So from
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  Speaker 3: the beginning, this show has really been about.
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  Speaker 5: Family, chosen family, blood family, but it's the dynamics and
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  Speaker 5: that has always been very complicated.
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  Speaker 3: Uh huh.
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  Speaker 5: But one of the things that I love what you've
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  Speaker 5: always been able to do is you showed it very real.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, incredibly so, to the point sometimes when you're like,
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  Speaker 3: how'd you know that about me?
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  Speaker 5: There have been so many times so after the show
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  Speaker 5: that I had felt seen that I felt like, oh
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  Speaker 5: my gosh, that happened to me. And as a matter
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  Speaker 5: of fact, this clip that we're about the show actually
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  Speaker 5: did happen to me. The clip is Jada catches Keisha
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  Speaker 5: under the bed. Now, Lena, my boyfriend's mother was not
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: as nice as that. I certainly did not get to
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  Speaker 5: stay for breakfast. But you know, one of the things
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  Speaker 5: I really love about that scene is that it is very,
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  Speaker 5: very real, and it's happened to more people than the
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  Speaker 5: would like to admit. But where did you get that
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  Speaker 5: idea from to set it up like that, because that's
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: really one of the first time that.
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  Speaker 3: We really get to meet in it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think what I wanted to do
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  Speaker 2: as a writer was do the unexpected in the scene.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I knew that I wanted to introduce him in this
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: way to let you know that this is the center
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: of his life. Sex is the center of his life,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: getting that kind of validation from women.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: He doesn't know who he is. That's why he has
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  Speaker 4: to make women.
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  Speaker 3: Scream his name.
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  Speaker 2: He's trying to find his identity inside the body of women.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and so his well, his mother shows up, the central.
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  Speaker 2: Woman in his life who is taking care of him.
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  Speaker 2: She even says, like, if you go just be here
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: fucking and smoking, the least you could do his baby's
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: and rent. So she's saying, like he's not even paying rent,
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  Speaker 2: but he has three children and he's living in her
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: house and he's sleeping with another young lady. She's wondering
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  Speaker 2: if they're gonna be a fourth. That will be eventually,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: but it.
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  Speaker 3: Took a while.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And so the thing is is like the
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: I want to kind of turn the audiences like expectations
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  Speaker 2: on their heads.
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  Speaker 4: So it's like she's already upset and she's annoyed. In
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  Speaker 4: my mind, I said.
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  Speaker 6: What's the what can I tell you about Jada in
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  Speaker 6: this moment, and also, how can I surprise you?
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  Speaker 4: You're not expecting her to say, are you hungry?
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  Speaker 3: No, as I said, that didn't happen for me.
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  Speaker 2: And the truth is is that I'm sure in most
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  Speaker 2: cases that's not what would happen.
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  Speaker 3: So I wanted to write what would be nice if
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  Speaker 3: that happened?
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  Speaker 2: If you catch a young lady in the bad room
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  Speaker 2: with your son, not it's not best to chastise her,
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  Speaker 2: but to maybe see if she's hungry, because conguerc but
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  Speaker 2: she's genuinely okay.
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  Speaker 4: She says, yeah, I could eat, Yeah, I could eat actually,
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  Speaker 4: And in.
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  Speaker 2: That moment, rather than shaming someone, you made them feel
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  Speaker 2: like a human being.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 5: And that's something that I love about the humanity of
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  Speaker 5: all the characters because on the face of it, and
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  Speaker 5: it's like a traditional fuck void, but very quickly you
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  Speaker 5: gave him texture and gave him real substance beyond just that,
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  Speaker 5: because he's.
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  Speaker 2: Also based on somebody I actually know. Maybe in this
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  Speaker 2: room right now, Jonathan or you're done the raisons?
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  Speaker 3: Could I tease you?
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  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm not.
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  Speaker 3: Speaking out of school, because these children exist.
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  Speaker 2: I grew up with Jonathan Richards saying we went to
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  Speaker 2: junior high school and yeah, yeah, and.
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  Speaker 4: Don't stay away from the cast please.
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  Speaker 3: But I'll say this with love. If we're gonna keep.
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  Speaker 2: It with no judgment, could I say, like you, you
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  Speaker 2: know you have children that are what eleven days apart
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  Speaker 2: and they're not by the same woman.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah that's okay. I have to say, yeah, you have
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  Speaker 3: talking right. Everybody was like they are they are eighteen now?
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  Speaker 3: In full right, they're eighteen years old.
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  Speaker 2: I ain't have full right scholarships, abologies because he's a
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  Speaker 2: great dad. But I remember like that folk lord, it
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  Speaker 2: was like, yo, Jonathan is outside.
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  Speaker 3: We ain't like But the thing was like I grew
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  Speaker 3: up with.
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  Speaker 2: Him and so that this is my bro. He ain't
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  Speaker 2: no feeling, He ain't no Boston, he ain't no heartless dude.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: This is like my guy, you know what I'm saying.
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  Speaker 2: So I think I wanted to, like, I think there's
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: a judgment that goes along with guys like how many
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  Speaker 2: baby mamas you got? It's like, bro, like what kind
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  Speaker 2: of father is he? How is he showing up? Is
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: he evolving as a man? Because the truth is like
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Jonathan shows.
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  Speaker 3: Up for me.
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  Speaker 4: I didn't have a father in my life. And he
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  Speaker 4: got killed when I was fourteen.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: So even though me and Jonathan are the same age,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: like we have to help kind of raise each other.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Like he let me know his mother past he was
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: talking about. I didn't realize like he was dealing with
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: that when we were writing.
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: The jailer storyline. He how could he have known that?
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: So I want people to understand that The Shy is
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: not just like some soapy drama black show.
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: It has literal blood and guts and bones and.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Muscle inside of it. And that's what you're getting when
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: you watch the show. You feel that our dna. I
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: love that Jonathan.
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: At the beginning, and you get to see the real humanity.
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: And as you mentioned, you know teenage kids, babies, having
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: babies oftentimes chastised, oftentimes put to the side.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: And written off. Yeah, yeah, look down, looked down the pond.
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: If you think the kids ain't gonna be shit because
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: the daddy and the mammae shit got pregnant, right, that's
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: sprevailing kind of sentiment and means in cases, yeah, but
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: there's always.
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  Speaker 3: A good kid in the community.
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  Speaker 5: There's always one of those kids that everyone knows is
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: gonna not just be all right.
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  Speaker 3: But they're gonna be a guiding light. They're gonna be
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  Speaker 3: a beacon.
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  Speaker 5: Such a beautiful portrayal of a character that we all know.
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: One of the things I always enjoyed about Papa was
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: that he really knew who he was very early on,
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: and he was always trying to save his brothers always
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: as a kid. And I think, again, there's always someone
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: like that in the neighborhood. We had a wary in
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: my class that like literally was in the same class,
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: but they would make him do the speeches at the
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: like or the tour like you know, assembly, because he
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: was that much of a leader, much like Papa.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: So what was an inspiration of behind his character?
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: You know, I actually grew up with a kid like
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Papa neighborhood, but his name was nick name was We
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: actually had a Khuil in our neighborhood growing up, but
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: his name was Code. But then there was these brothers
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: on the new name Jake and Papa, and so something
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: about that that that name Papa.
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: Just kind of said obviously was a nickname, And I
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: just want of had.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: This vision for this kid with a lot of personality
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: and a lot of confidence, and he's someone that we
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: might not think would have confidence, but he is confident,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: and he is sort of specific and funny and silly.
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: When we found your mind, it was just like the perfect, perfect.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Mane and also getting right out of my brain.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: I was like Therry is and also rooted in church.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: He's very much rooted in church.
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: He's a preacher's kid, and and he did not shy
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: away from that, because you also know a lot of
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: times the pks are the worst of the worst, right,
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: because they're trying.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: To prove that they they're playing against tyd right exactly.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: But I love that he was like, like, y'all need Jesus.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: He wasn't afraid of prayer.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: And that's what's so interesting about his story line, Like
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: he really kind of like kind of steers away from
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: the church dates another preacher's kid, and kind he kind
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: of veers over to that kind of preaching because I
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: also grew up in a church that preached prosperity, and
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: some people can look down on that or I think
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: there's something wrong with it, But my church was also
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: led by a black woman, and that's like so rare,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: and that was that was the norm to me to
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: see a black woman in the pool pitch talking about deserving.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: The keys to the kingdom.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: And so it's like, it's not an accident that I
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: was a little girl in that congregation hearing that, hearing
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: that kind of rhetoric and hearing it from a black woman, please,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: sitting next to my grandmother and my mother.
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: At church, we only went every now and.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Then caught lady Christians, you know, but when we were there,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: that was the word we got that you know, your
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: steps are ordered and that prosperity is not sinned.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: Amen. But sometimes they go too far. They do something.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Week was a little you know, we were kind of
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: talking about that kind of past. Yeah, but you know
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: you have the humble pastor and that you have the
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: flashy on both exist.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Yes, they do.
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: Speaking of of vast and wide characters, you know, you
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: don't just have one type of woman in your show.
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: There's so many different of women in your show and
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: it has dated many different types. Take us through their
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: baby because you you had a lot to play with.
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: And the thing that I really loved about and its
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: character is the growth. He didn't stay stuck, he didn't
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: just stay a b and it wasn't without trials and tribulations.
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: A lot of Travels tribute. He fell down but he
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: got back up. Oh god, yes he did well. This
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: time he went down on one.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Need children call you? But he did that. He did
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: that as well. Because you also did have a lot
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: of razy said sings.
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: Yes did, Yes, they.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: Do.
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: They also be getting married and celebrating black love.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: Sometimes they just.
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: Get engaged with When did you decide that you wanted
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: Did you know from the outset that you wanted him
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: to have a transformation that you did not want him
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: to just be the stereotypical kind of young black man
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: who is a stun who's gonna go out there and
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: you know everything.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: That's that's moving, you know, I think it's too difficult
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: to think that far ahead. They do try to ask
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: you do that when you're pitching shows, but you never
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: know where.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: A character is gonna go.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: You really don't.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: And but I think what I did want was just
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: for him to.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: Be a human being.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Even if he didn't figure it out, It doesn't mean
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: that his life isn't valid.
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: It means that he kind of maybe he didn't have
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: it in it for whatever reason.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: But I didn't want it to say, oh, he has
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: to become a great dad, I wanted him just to
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: become himself, whatever that looks, whatever that looks like, and
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: create a sort of an understanding of whatever that self is,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: because I think we get too caught up in the
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: idea of a positive image, and I think I want
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: to just write a human image and let us wrap
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: our arms around it if we can.
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: And then because of that, he did become a positive
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: image and became a very realistically positive image, because it's
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: not easy to have had that many kids with various
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: women and then come out on the other side as
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: a pillar of the community, which is what it eventually becomes.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think what I'm trying to get away
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: from is this idea of who is accepted and embraced
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: and celebrated because just because my father didn't know how
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: to be there for us, but that doesn't mean that
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: he's not like a word of a human being worthy
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: of my empathy. And so I think that's what I
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: just want to steer away from, because that can be
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: this this idealized human person, especially when it comes to us,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: it's like, how do we sanctify a person? How do
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: we make them an angel enough for us to care about?
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: You do not have to be perfect for me to
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: wrap my arms around you. And I think sometimes in
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: our community we demand that, particularly a black man. I
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: don't know how fair that is, especially with how much
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: they have to deal with everyone then go outside every day.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: The tricky thing is is black women we have to
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: then become the next thing they deal with when they
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: come home.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: But then we don't through a lot too. But that's
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: the thing is like who do who do we? Who
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: do we have to throw our ship on?
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Who are we throwing our access baggage on each other?
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Absolutely?
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Because where else where is there for it to go right?
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: Exactly exactly? Yeah, well you give every single one of
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: your characters. I think you give the more grace even
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: the worst stuff them must they need the most, They
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: needed the most, Ronnie says Keisher.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Such an important storyline.
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: Because we always see stories like this about the white girls,
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: and they are worthy of being saved. They're worried, they're
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: worthy of you know, news reports running twenty four to seven.
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: Ambrother's all of it right, They're worthy of people searching
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: for them for months and years. But when it's little
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: black girl's not so much, especially little black girls snuck
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: out to go see a way that maybe they should
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: not have been seen.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: Exactly and holy shout out Justin Hilly Anders in the
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: building one.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: About Charland news very young for you though, because his idea.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: You know, I said in season three, I want to
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: make the cops go away?
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: How do I do that?
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: He said, make a black girl disappear.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: That's that's the kind of shit he'd be saying. Yeah, different,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: but it's realistic, it's real and we did. Yeah, and
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: the community founder. There were two people that had to
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: be redeemed and rescued in that scene.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Right, yes, yes, yes, I think And also so interesting
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: in watching that back, we knew we wanted Ronnie to
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: be the person that maybe broke open the door and
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: got through into the house, but ultimately Keisha saved herself. Yes,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: she is able to to use her own strength, and
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: so this isn't a damsel in distress per se. You know,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: he isn't the one that takes them out. And I
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: think that was very important for us to see a
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: woman being able to save her own life. But it's
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: nice to have the support of a man coming in
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: and saying, Okay, let me break open the.
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: Door and now I'm gonna take it out.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: It is a dual effort. You need both, yes, and
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I think that's amazed what the same really represents. And also, yeah,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: like for RII to come to that space of him
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: killing the character very beloved in the beginning, then you
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: start to grow have empathy for him and in this moment,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: it's a triumphant moment.
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: And of course death is just around the corner for him,
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: because that's how it works.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: But he gets to be a hero. He gets to
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: be a hero. Yeah, and like you said, he dies
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: shortly thereafter.
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: Because he's he helped say Keisha, he also helped redeem himself.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: In the eyes of the much of the community.
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: Correct, it wasn't seen as just the guy who killed
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: Kogi exactly, So he had more too, He had more
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: of a presence in this.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Life when this worked. Absolutely, that was his purpose exactly.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: I'm speaking of purpose.
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: One of the things I really enjoyed because I am
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: from Harlem and like south Side, we are constantly fighting
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: off gentrification, and so I love the way you paint
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: this vibrant picture of what the South Side is like.
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: And it's a love letter, and one of the biggest
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: love letters that you did on the shot was Smokey's opening.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Mother always always, life and love.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: Man, it happens.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: And there was at least four people in that crowd
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: that he had slept with. So that's a lot.
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: But the community gathering together just because a barbecue shop
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: has transferred ownership to a young black man is something
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: that was so important.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know, I think in Chicago we're a lot.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: I call it a working class city. So it's an
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: entrepreneurial student city. Like everybody's starting their own business, doing.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Their own thing.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: And and I think that really speaks to immag having Smokeyes,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: and everybody be working as Smokey's too. That's the thing
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: is like everybody gonna ultimately have a job as Smokey's
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: as somewhat.
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: But that's what those kind of places are.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: There are places where you get your first job, place
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: where you need a break, need.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: A deal, you just get out of jail, you need
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: a job.
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: Look, that's basically what's becoming right.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: It's definitely if you if you just have got the pen,
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: if it has a job for you, which is a
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: real thing.
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: It's a community that though yes, and we're moving away
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: from that, we need to have safe havens for people.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, I more entrepreneurs. And look.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Also, I'm producing a play New York Theatre Workshop, the
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Peculiar Patriot, Don't Sleep.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: Get you and take it.
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: If you came to board one hit my dems, we'll
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: see what we can do there.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: You go. Speaking of community, the block guardy oh, yes,
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: let's run it. That was pure joy.
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: Come on now, Chicago was people said as support the
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: Tourism Board campaign.
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, tell them to call me something else because
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: it makes you want to.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: Go to Chicago in the summer. I'm someone who goes
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: to the parade very year, so I tradition. Yeah, I
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: mean I think that that's such a I don't the cast.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: I probably up here having like like I don't know,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: crazy like flashbacks right now. A want to these old clips.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: I know it's crazy for me too. It's like somebody
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: reading your diary back to you.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: No.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, we really kind of wanted it to feel like.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: The city, which is the city of the community. And
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: I think that's the thing.
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: About and a lot of the two is a lot
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: of Chicago once.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Our grandparents migrated from the South, so they bring that
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Southern hospitality. Like my grandma's from Arkansas, Okay, very small time.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: You never heard of in Arkansas. We was Chicago when
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: she was seventeen.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: And she built a a new life there.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: But for her, she had both.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: For us, we just had the city, but we had her.
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: So her southern energy mixed with our city swagger.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Is really how you get a lot of people of
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: my generation who are have that city energy. But there's
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: a Southern hospitality that we have too, which is such
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: a huge part of who I am my personality.
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's why you're always so welcoming, and that's why
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: you're always about community, folks and foremost.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's all I know. I think you know,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: my grandmother was definitely a big host. You know, she
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: was hosting the black club parties, she was hosting the
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: neighborhood watch parties, she was hosting the poker nights, she
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: was hosting Thanksgiving. So there were always people over there,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: and some would be blood relatives, some would be neighbors,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: some would be friends, but everybody was treated like family.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: And I think we can feel that in my life
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: but also in the show.
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and you can always feel the abundance of love
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: and speaking of an abundance of love.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: Jana and Dornell's wedding soon. So if you've got self
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: knowing that, you.
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: Should know that she is a romantic, and she believes
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: in black love, and she believes in women of a
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: certain age have a loved child. When I tell you,
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: she'd be so worried about me and yeah, what's going on?
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: I'm like, let's let's do. What's the lady?
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: So, I know you wrote that Jada getting married in
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: the house for a real purpose. You want to show
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: something that love can prevail at any age.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Well, yes, you know, and I think love getting them
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: back around, Yes, I think, but it has to evolve.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Don't be doing all and offster that's the agall. Well,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: you're just doing the same thing horizontal. But yeah, I
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: think we always want to show all kinds of love
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: stories and age, you know, sexual orientation, all that kind
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: of stuff. We want everybody to feel seen. We want
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: everybody to feel like they're in the frame because they
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: deserve to be, and that they.
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: Have the potential for a big, monumental loving relationship.
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, sometimes you have to see the thing in order
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: to believe it as.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: Possible, which is what it needs to see. His parents, relaxed,
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: relax You also talk.
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: About love in other ways and as far as friendships,
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: and we always see women black women loving up on
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: each other and taking care of each other and being
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: there for each other. But I have to say, I
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: think the shot might be the first time we've ever
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: seen black men committing to one another to be honest
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: and to be arnerable, which brings us to the first
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: men's circle most of all the time. That seems important
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: if you watch the shot and you know that most
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: of the men see in that circle are people that
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: have done a lot of crime and violence against the
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: community and each other, right the way he said, for
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: those every single man is a hot mess around basically.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: About their feelings.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, they some of us those with
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: criminal stuff, not Joe's character.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: That was kind of like chilling.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: You know, it's a right, but ultimately it's a place
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: for them to talk about their feelings and talk about
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: just what's going on with them, because I don't know
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: if like men feel that they can say that stuff
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: without feeling like a burden. And so I thought it
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: was really cool to show the guys sitting around just
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: having just a genuine conversation.
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and something else that you did that was very cool.
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: It's to show children, the young kids, the teenagers. We
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: met them when they were like pre teen, they've grown
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: up and now we see them as teenagers at palm
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: and grappling with what's next.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: And by the way, the way you shot from just
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: cool though.
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: That shouts of DeAndre and Quincy, who I think already
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: building and something.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: So beautiful what we see Black proms.
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, Black prom is such a big deal,
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: such a white please.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: I was it big in New York too? Yeah, yeah, cha,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: don't go crazy.
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: I love it because it's a coming of age moment
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: and again something that we don't really.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Get to see and stories around young black kids. Yeah,
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: Kevin Lee in the city.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: That storyline definitely kind of gave my own experience to Kevin,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: just in terms of me want to leave the city
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: and go to Los Angeles to chase a dream, and
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: he went and.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: He chased a dream.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: I want to be going season. I can't say yes,
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: say anything.
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: Someone who did appear and I was very happy to
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: see her. You know, you always go and get your
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: girls that you love. You always bring the icons on
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: the shin and on your projects. Yes, so of course
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: you gotta run Black Ghetto Brady Brunch with Develand with
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: Phil all the time.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: You definitely ain't that same thing.
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: I really appreciate that all the women that you have
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: written in this y'all, they have agency.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: It's no one that's really like a victim, right, Yeah,
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: I don't believe in it. I don't believe in though.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: It's like victimizing yourself, but rather being a culprit in
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: whatever your situation is.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: And that's what I think.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: What's interesting about Keisha and tense relationship is that they
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: don't feel the new to be in combat with each other,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: and they've developed this beautiful sisterhoods.
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: But I think the Internet caused them sister wise.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Yes, they all definitely sister wise.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: But they're so different and look at the world differently,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: but they're able to walk alongside each other.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: And I think that, to me is just one of
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: the most It's one of.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: My favorite things about the show is their relationship and
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: how it's evolved, and you'll see it go through some
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: interesting things this final season.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: For sure, I say, all right, I'm not giving too
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: much of it.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Well, in season seven, you did something that I really
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: didn't appreciate. Okay, back villain.
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: Someone They had me on pins and needles and needles
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: and pads and I'm talking about Regis back. That family
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: dynamic is who's something. And when the mama came back,
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: that was even more source on it. Talk about that
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: relationship because I mean, you know, three brothers, all very.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: Different, but with the through line.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think that's something that I think
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: the audience have been asking for to see all three
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: Together, and when we did it, it just felt really
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: complete and exciting and interesting.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of how we want to show people
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: that you can come from the same mother but be
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: extremely different because you have different experiences.
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: And I think it also half siblings is a whole
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: interesting things.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: They have different dads, but they all sort of come
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: they're still a part of the same tribe.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: And it's just really fun to watch the three of
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: them together on screen.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: That's amazing scene.
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, really great, but you already know that after chap
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: of you all night. But they're making me rap my love.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: So let's play our last.
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: Clip, last one, which is so beautiful and really emotional.
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: That's a woman I text you to days was frying.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, it was beautiful. Keisha and tenth give birth, such
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: a beautiful scene.
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: We know how important black mothers are, not just too
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: black families, but to the world.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: Okay. And but for me, that scene was very much.
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: It could have been called it takes a village because
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: Victor is not that baby daddy, but he was right there,
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean. And and and Jada is
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: such a present grandmar She she's on a deathbed and
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: she comes, come on, She's like, I'm coming to see
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: my grandchild.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: You mean, tell a little bit about the emotion of
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: that scene and why you made those choices.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Oh man, what we knew it would be our pan ultimate,
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: this emotional scene of the births at the same time.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: And I think you're really picking up on what we
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: were trying to put out there that it's like, it's
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: sometimes the person you need isn't who you think it is.
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: You don't you don't realize that's what you need in
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: that moment.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: And Tip would have been really asked out if she
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: didn't have Victor in that moment, and they needed each other.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: And I think that with Jada coming to see what
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: ultimately become her namesake is that that is how life
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: works full circle.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: Yes, you know, at the ending of one.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Life, a new life begins, and that to us was
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: just so beautiful and important, and it was just this
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: really stunning way to say farewell to a character that
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: had really helped shape the show and hello to this
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: new beginning for two characters that we've been with obviously
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: since the beginning. Like to see that clip that the
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: first clip that we saw obviously with Emma and Keisha
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: and Jada, and to see that clip to go from
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: that to that moment of them having a child and
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Jada making him jangs here, it's like, I can't I
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: can't answer anything.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: One of that is a beautiful both. Yeah, beautiful. We
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: got another vote to tie, another one and.
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: Another one many votes, which brings us to season eight,
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: the last season.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: Yest says goodbye.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: I'm really grateful that people are are so excited and yeah,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: just sharing it and just getting hyped up.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: Let's do this last dance.
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: And I also want to say I'm grateful that you
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: guys got a chance to say a proper goodbye, right
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: and we had a chance to see the evolution of
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: the characters because oftentimes our show.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: Don't get that.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: You're you're You're absolutely right, and I will say, I'm
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: y'all go on the TV head. I love television, and
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: I've gotten a chance to watch some really icon of
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: TV shows in real time, in real time, so I
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: got a chance to see some really important shows for
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: me say goodbye. One of those shows was The Cosby Show.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: I remember seeing Heathcliff and Claire dance off the set,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: break the fourth wall, a different world.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: I got to see Little Been Single Martin. All these
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: shows say.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Goodbye, but this one, this one gets to be in
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: that those that line.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Up that line of TV shows that people crowd around
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: and get ready for that final bow. And I'm really
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: grateful that we'll all get to have that moment together.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: And it's gonna be It's gonna be said.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: But you know, we ain't done.
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: We still got more of.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: Different Just touch now one of them kids, make no.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: I know, I ain't no telling we don't know. We
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: ain't gonna say nothing. You gotta watch to find out,
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: you know how we do. It's the shy anything is possible.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: All right, Well you gonna get into this, but we're
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: gonna come on that parn so I want to say
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: thank you to the cast and pol the Paramount plus Selena,
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: and thank you to everybody who come shout out podcast.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Everybody here, Congratulations the Paramouth for us.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: All Right, y'all, that was the conversation with the Miss
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Selina Waite, the creator in the forest behind the shy.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's coming to an end season eight, and
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: I think there was nobody else better to host that
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: conversation other than Miss Bebby Smith. So if you guys
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: enjoyed the conversation, let me hear back from you. Get
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: out in the streets and in the tweets, let's talk
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: about it. I'll be back with another amazing episode of
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: the Latest with Lauren the Roads of the podcast. And
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: I tell you, guys, every single episode my low Ride.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Y'all could be anywhere with any old body talking about
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: all of these things, but you guys choose to be
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: right here with me. I appreciate it.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: See you later.