Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #394 Doing Hard Things

Transcript

#394 Doing Hard Things · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:07
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
0:10
Speaker 2: Now, there's this really fine line going on between encouraging
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Speaker 2: our children to face their fears and do hard.
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Speaker 3: Things, yes, but doing it in a safe way and learning.
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Speaker 2: To trust their guards.
0:21
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
0:25
Speaker 1: and dad.
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Speaker 3: Parental Guidance is the gift that keeps on giving. Channel
0:28
Speaker 3: nine seven to thirty last night asked so much to
0:31
Speaker 3: talk about. This is doctor Justin Colson. I'm the founder
0:34
Speaker 3: of Happy Families dot com, dot you and the parenting
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Speaker 3: expert and co host on the show Parental Guidance. Here
0:38
Speaker 3: with Kyllie, my wife and mum to our six kids.
0:41
Speaker 3: Kylie kids earning dollars. That was a fun challenge. I
0:46
Speaker 3: loved watching the way those parents did that.
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Speaker 2: You guys, by yourselves, have got to make twenty dollars
0:51
Speaker 2: in two hours.
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Speaker 3: I'm confident they'll know this challenge.
0:55
Speaker 2: And my dad's a salesman.
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Speaker 3: We'll make new want wundes. Let's go start on this. Brothers,
1:01
Speaker 3: how much do you think of watermelon juice should be?
1:03
Speaker 3: I go three pus three dollars? Are you confident enough
1:06
Speaker 3: to convince them that you can get three dollars.
1:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, and if we don't, I'll just have to go
1:09
Speaker 4: down to two dons. Oh, I love it.
1:11
Speaker 1: I love it.
1:11
Speaker 2: Okay, it was fun. And actually last night I was
1:15
Speaker 2: scrolling through Facebook and I found this really cute little post. Yeah,
1:19
Speaker 2: we have just had our patio done and my six
1:22
Speaker 2: year old has loved going out and helping the builders,
1:24
Speaker 2: so it made his day to receive this. And then
1:27
Speaker 2: she's put a picture up pay packet for Harry for
1:31
Speaker 2: passing bricks, passing little pavers, pointing brickwork, mixing cement, loading stone,
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Speaker 2: taking pictures of blackbirds and spiders, saying why more times
1:40
Speaker 2: than I've ever heard anyone say why, and just for
1:43
Speaker 2: being a smashing little guy. Ten pounds.
1:45
Speaker 3: Oh that's brilliant. Its obviously from the UK. Ten pounds.
1:47
Speaker 3: How cute is that? I like the way that some
1:50
Speaker 3: people are just so intentional, so concerned with helping kids
1:54
Speaker 3: to feel great about life. How nice.
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Speaker 2: And I think we saw that last night. It was
1:58
Speaker 2: just amazing watching these kids go through their neighborhoods and
2:02
Speaker 2: reach out to their elderly neighbors. I loved seeing that.
2:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, so dev and her homeschool family six kids. They
2:07
Speaker 3: went knocked on the door and did some choice for
2:08
Speaker 3: the neighbors twenty bucks.
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Speaker 2: We have a little challenge to earn some pocket money,
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Speaker 2: and we were wondering if there's anything we could help
2:14
Speaker 2: you with.
2:17
Speaker 4: See what we can do.
2:18
Speaker 3: Barb and Terrees open their home to all seven of
2:22
Speaker 3: us trapesing in and very quickly.
2:24
Speaker 1: They had a list.
2:25
Speaker 2: And then you had Penny and Daniel's kids who went
2:27
Speaker 2: to numerous neighbors and sold their watermelon juice.
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Speaker 3: So creative they came up with their pricing. Yeah, they
2:35
Speaker 3: priced well and even they outdid the challenge. They got
2:38
Speaker 3: twenty five instead of twenty so impressive. I really like that,
2:41
Speaker 3: you know what, I found a little bit confronting and challenging.
2:45
Speaker 3: So I loved how Robin, Sue and seven Rache. Initially
2:47
Speaker 3: I didn't like, oh, let's just get the kids to
2:48
Speaker 3: do this stuff around the house, but they actually made
2:50
Speaker 3: the kids go above and beyond, and the kids really
2:53
Speaker 3: embraced it, like they really enjoyed the challenge, and they
2:55
Speaker 3: were pretty happy about the twenty bucks well.
2:57
Speaker 2: And I think the comment that came out from that
2:59
Speaker 2: in real life to paying your kids to do jobs
3:02
Speaker 2: around the house that just need to be done. Was
3:04
Speaker 2: a fair comment, But the reality is they were stretching them,
3:07
Speaker 2: that they're not the jobs that normally. You know, he's
3:09
Speaker 2: not going to hand over the whipper snipper every I don't.
3:11
Speaker 3: Think he's everly going to hand over the whips sipper again.
3:14
Speaker 2: But it was great to see them being stretched.
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Speaker 3: We do that in our house. We've got the jobs
3:19
Speaker 3: that the kids are supposed to do because they're part
3:20
Speaker 3: of the family. But every now and again, if they
3:21
Speaker 3: wanted to do some bonus stuff, some things that aren't
3:24
Speaker 3: what you would do if you were part of the household,
3:27
Speaker 3: we give the kids a couple of bucks every now
3:28
Speaker 3: and again to go and do some extra things. And
3:30
Speaker 3: I don't have a big problem with that. Kevin and Debbie, though,
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Speaker 3: their response to their kids not being able to earn
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Speaker 3: any money busking, that was really challenging to watch, very provocative.
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Speaker 5: The kids didn't play very well on the street. Both
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Speaker 5: of them are really distracted.
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Speaker 3: They're not playing very well. The pain was sticking. I
3:54
Speaker 3: started getting worried.
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Speaker 5: So I came up with that idea of calling Grandma
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Speaker 5: you famous. Thanks Mom, Okay, you're happy to pankup now
4:05
Speaker 5: thanks to Grandma Animi. You were all distracted, you didn't
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Speaker 5: play very well, and it was hard to untundred dollars.
4:13
Speaker 5: No not less, I need to find a better job
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Speaker 5: when I grow up.
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Speaker 2: Really felt for the kids. I mean, they're out there,
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Speaker 2: like like Lara said, the attachment parents, this is a
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Speaker 2: really vulnerable thing for our kids to do. They've got this,
4:31
Speaker 2: they've got this new found talent. It's growing, it's developing,
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Speaker 2: and they still haven't yet mastered it, and they're literally
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Speaker 2: sharing it with whoever is there.
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Speaker 3: They really push those kids hard, though their expectations are
4:42
Speaker 3: extremely high, which is what tiger parenting is all about.
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Speaker 3: I thought it was quite telling though, when Debbie said,
4:47
Speaker 3: we're actually pretty average compared to what some of the
4:49
Speaker 3: Tiger parents we know are like. And this is something
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Speaker 3: that I really worry about for these kids that are
4:54
Speaker 3: in these pressure cooker environments. It's just not healthy. Anyway,
4:59
Speaker 3: we could talk about all that sort of stuff, but
5:00
Speaker 3: I think that the real conversation today has got to
5:03
Speaker 3: be about the question of how far you push your kids.
5:07
Speaker 2: Oh, we saw some amazing footage last week with the
5:11
Speaker 2: kids and their rock climbing wall. Challenge.
5:14
Speaker 3: So one of the most moving moments of the entire
5:16
Speaker 3: series has been Andrew Miriam's little boy Timothy, falling off
5:19
Speaker 3: that wall and getting up and trying again, and then
5:22
Speaker 3: falling off again and try Like, just the way this
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Speaker 3: kid pushed himself to face those fears and do something
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Speaker 3: courageous was extraordinary.
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Speaker 2: It actually reminded me of a childhood memory I have. Yeah,
5:33
Speaker 2: I never owned my own rollerskates, but I went and
5:36
Speaker 2: visited my cousins one day and she had some, and
5:38
Speaker 2: I had to. I just had to know how to
5:41
Speaker 2: do it. She had a massive driveway, Naho, a massive
5:44
Speaker 2: driveway really from the top to the bottom. And I
5:47
Speaker 2: tried literally all day to stand up the entire way down,
5:52
Speaker 2: and without fail, I fell down literally every time. I
5:56
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know how my bumps right, but
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Speaker 2: I just kept trying.
6:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I thought it was going to end much
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Speaker 3: worse than that. He's the thing though. Last week we
6:06
Speaker 3: also watched Lara and Andrew with their kids on the
6:09
Speaker 3: rock climbing wall and they reduced the target and then
6:14
Speaker 3: they took their kids off the wall and they didn't
6:16
Speaker 3: push them at all. And I think that there's this
6:17
Speaker 3: really really big contrast that we've got to acknowledge. I mean,
6:20
Speaker 3: this is not about shaming any parents, but just the
6:23
Speaker 3: different way that parents approach how they pushed their kids
6:26
Speaker 3: to achieve or to do hard things, or to face
6:29
Speaker 3: their fears or to act with courage.
6:32
Speaker 2: Well, and I think the reality is it's about where
6:35
Speaker 2: the goalposts are. Is it about actually accomplishing the task.
6:41
Speaker 3: So the task was for last week's rock climbers to
6:43
Speaker 3: get all the way to the top and hit the
6:44
Speaker 3: golden egg that was pasted on the wall.
6:46
Speaker 2: Or is it facing your fears and trying.
6:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's also worth highlighting. In Lara and Andrew's defense,
6:52
Speaker 3: while they did not push their child at all, a
6:56
Speaker 3: week later, they went back and he did better, and
6:58
Speaker 3: they went back again and he eventually, with practice, got
7:01
Speaker 3: to the top. So it's not like they weren't saying,
7:03
Speaker 3: you don't ever have to do this. They were saying,
7:05
Speaker 3: let's just do it gently, bit by bit, as you
7:07
Speaker 3: feel comfortable taking those risks worth highlighting. And there's a
7:11
Speaker 3: really important lesson in that that we didn't get to
7:13
Speaker 3: see in the show, but they intimated in their subsequent
7:16
Speaker 3: interviews last night, though we saw Kevin and Debbie with
7:22
Speaker 3: a little boy. Tiger parents with a little boy. Leo
7:26
Speaker 3: absolutely terrified of jumping off that five meter platform at Jambarou.
7:31
Speaker 5: I found that he was a little bit scared because
7:34
Speaker 5: he's not a good swimmer.
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Speaker 3: I know you have very well about your all.
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Speaker 4: Right, Leo, are you already jump? Oh wow?
8:06
Speaker 3: But here's the thing. I mean, that was really hard
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Speaker 3: to watch, really hard to watch.
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Speaker 2: I knew i'd seen that rock wall somewhere.
8:12
Speaker 3: It was a gender Dad, you don't know that's where
8:13
Speaker 3: it was. I was trying to work it out on
8:15
Speaker 3: the new South South Coast. Yeah, but have a listen
8:18
Speaker 3: to what happened when he accomplished it.
8:20
Speaker 4: Well done, Reil, nice and.
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Speaker 2: Then he did it.
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Speaker 3: H looks good.
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Speaker 6: I was happy, Well Donelle, well Doneville, you did it.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: So this makes it even more confusing. Well it does, because.
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Speaker 2: You can see just the elation on his face at
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Speaker 2: the other end when he did something he did not
8:42
Speaker 2: think for a second he could actually do.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
8:44
Speaker 3: And let's add this kid can't swim. He's really terrified.
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Speaker 3: He's jumping off a five minute platform into water. He
8:50
Speaker 3: cannot swim. It's deep water, it's no wonder he was scared,
8:53
Speaker 3: And I look at this situation. I think when parents
8:57
Speaker 3: are saying, oh, the kids have got a harden up
8:58
Speaker 3: or they've just got to do it, And I'm like,
9:01
Speaker 3: I want to encourage parents to help their kids to
9:03
Speaker 3: push themselves to do hard things, but sometimes it's really tough.
9:07
Speaker 3: Right after the break, we're going to talk about some
9:09
Speaker 3: different approaches from some other parents and really dissect what
9:12
Speaker 3: we're supposed to do as parents to work out when
9:16
Speaker 3: to push and when to hold back. It's the Happy
9:18
Speaker 3: Families Podcast.
9:20
Speaker 6: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
9:23
Speaker 6: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts
9:26
Speaker 6: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits
9:28
Speaker 6: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at happy
9:32
Speaker 6: families dot com, dot au slash shop.
9:35
Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time
9:38
Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we're
9:40
Speaker 2: tackling the idea of how much is too much pressure
9:43
Speaker 2: when we want our kids to face their fears. Just
9:46
Speaker 2: before the break, you acknowledge Kevin and Debbie's son Leo
9:50
Speaker 2: and how scared he was to jump off the rock
9:53
Speaker 2: and I was thinking about it a bit more just
9:55
Speaker 2: in the break there and wondering if Leo's parents weren't there,
10:00
Speaker 2: would you want Leo to jump off the wall and
10:02
Speaker 2: face his fears?
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Speaker 6: Wow?
10:05
Speaker 4: No?
10:06
Speaker 2: And so there's this really fine line going on between
10:10
Speaker 2: encouraging our children to face their fears and do hard things.
10:15
Speaker 3: Yes, but doing it in a safe way well and
10:18
Speaker 3: learning to trust their guards. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
10:20
Speaker 2: How many times do we ask our kids to do
10:22
Speaker 2: things and everything in them is screaming no.
10:25
Speaker 3: So let's come back to that in a minute. We've
10:27
Speaker 3: just got to talk about a couple of other scenarios
10:28
Speaker 3: with these other kids, because sometimes you've got to push
10:31
Speaker 3: through hard things like Rachel and Sam right there there
10:33
Speaker 3: with the little I think Elsie's five, if I can recall,
10:37
Speaker 3: and Elsie doesn't want to jump off, and I love
10:39
Speaker 3: what Sam says to her when she's on this five
10:41
Speaker 3: minute diving platform.
10:42
Speaker 2: How much fun is it going to be when you
10:44
Speaker 2: do it?
10:44
Speaker 6: No?
10:45
Speaker 4: Not fun at all.
10:47
Speaker 6: What does it take one second to be babe?
10:54
Speaker 4: Fine? Two?
10:55
Speaker 2: Three?
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Speaker 3: Got good girl? And next thing you know, she's jumping
11:02
Speaker 3: into the water. Her mum's in the water waiting for him.
11:04
Speaker 3: So it's safe. And you compare that with so Deb's
11:08
Speaker 3: little girl and Robin Sue's son. There was there's some
11:11
Speaker 3: real fear there. And they worked with their kids and
11:13
Speaker 3: they got them to jump, and the kids were all thrilled.
11:16
Speaker 3: And then you compare that with our free range parents
11:18
Speaker 3: Penny and Daniel. They missed the whole thing. Do they jump?
11:22
Speaker 3: Oh no, I missed it.
11:26
Speaker 4: Awesome, I'll do it.
11:30
Speaker 3: Of course, Julian had to up the ante, just gonna
11:34
Speaker 3: do it. Julian went up to the next level. Oh
11:37
Speaker 3: my god, he's gone, Oh I miss it. Oh my god,
11:42
Speaker 3: did he do it?
11:43
Speaker 4: I missed that?
11:44
Speaker 3: So how far do we push? And here's the thing
11:47
Speaker 3: that I'm challenged by. Sometimes you do want to push,
11:51
Speaker 3: sometimes the kids need to push, and other times it's
11:54
Speaker 3: a terrible idea. And the messages that we send can
11:57
Speaker 3: be so mixed. So generally what we've seen the show,
12:00
Speaker 3: when kids accomplished something new, they're always really glad that
12:03
Speaker 3: they've tried. They get this huge, incredible confidence boost. It
12:07
Speaker 3: makes them feel more resilient, more capable. It's like they've
12:10
Speaker 3: like I look at Penny and Daniel the first time
12:12
Speaker 3: we were introduced to them, they've got Sebestian, their son
12:15
Speaker 3: twelve years old, up a telegraph pole, right. But what's
12:18
Speaker 3: happened is as he's grown, as he's gotten older, he's
12:22
Speaker 3: been allowed to face age appropriate risks in a way
12:25
Speaker 3: that suits him, in an environment that's safe, and his
12:28
Speaker 3: parents have always been there for him, and he's happy
12:30
Speaker 3: to take on those risks. I think that that's amazing.
12:32
Speaker 2: And they've acknowledged it hasn't just happened overnight.
12:36
Speaker 3: No, it's taken a lifetime. But also, and this is
12:38
Speaker 3: the critical thing. I think this is what it all
12:40
Speaker 3: comes down to when it comes to how far you
12:41
Speaker 3: push your kids. Is it something that they actually want
12:44
Speaker 3: to do, do they value it? Does it matter to
12:46
Speaker 3: them like sometimes it matters to us, And we push
12:50
Speaker 3: our children very very hard and say, come on, just
12:52
Speaker 3: do it one more try. Everyone else is doing it.
12:54
Speaker 3: You're going to miss out. And we do that because
12:57
Speaker 3: it matters so much to us. We think that it's
12:59
Speaker 3: in important for them to do it, But they don't
13:01
Speaker 3: think it themselves. I guess sometimes we might be right,
13:04
Speaker 3: but often we're not. And I want to take this
13:06
Speaker 3: in a really going back to what you were saying before,
13:09
Speaker 3: you know that listening to the inner voice, And I said,
13:12
Speaker 3: we've got to come back to that. This is the
13:14
Speaker 3: bit that I think we've really got to confront, and
13:17
Speaker 3: that is that if we push and push and push
13:20
Speaker 3: and push and push and don't take no for an answer,
13:23
Speaker 3: and there's something inside our kids that's saying no, no, no, no,
13:25
Speaker 3: no no, I don't want to do this. We're teaching
13:26
Speaker 3: them not to listen to that and that somebody else
13:29
Speaker 3: knows better what's important for them.
13:31
Speaker 2: And when it's not you doing the pushing, Yeah.
13:34
Speaker 3: What about when it's their friends? Or what about it
13:35
Speaker 3: when it's your daughter's boyfriend or your son's girlfriend, or
13:40
Speaker 3: the boys down at the beach and they've pulled the
13:42
Speaker 3: alcohol out or some other drugs. What happens then when
13:45
Speaker 3: they're all going, come on, just do it, Come on,
13:47
Speaker 3: if you really loved me, you would and the pressure
13:50
Speaker 3: is on, do it, do it, do it, do it,
13:52
Speaker 3: do it, And they've got that thing in their heart
13:53
Speaker 3: that's saying this is a bad idea, but they've always
13:56
Speaker 3: been told that they need to do it because parents
13:59
Speaker 3: have pushed them all the time. Now I know that
14:01
Speaker 3: that might sound extreme and maybe it's not related at all.
14:04
Speaker 3: But I can't help but see the parallels.
14:07
Speaker 2: Just there's power in listening to your in a voice,
14:09
Speaker 2: and I think that we need to do everything we
14:12
Speaker 2: can to encourage our children to hear it and follow.
14:16
Speaker 3: So how far do you push your kids? I actually
14:19
Speaker 3: I am going to say something that's a little provocative.
14:22
Speaker 3: I don't really think that we should push our kids
14:24
Speaker 3: at all.
14:24
Speaker 2: You said that in the show, and it was a
14:26
Speaker 2: really poignant moment for me, just that acknowledgment. It's not
14:29
Speaker 2: about pushing, it's about supporting and encouraging.
14:32
Speaker 3: And that's the difference. And it's a subtle difference. But
14:35
Speaker 3: the question really should be is this something that you
14:38
Speaker 3: want to do? And if so, what can I support
14:40
Speaker 3: you to get there? Because I know it's going to
14:42
Speaker 3: be hard. Now that's in the parent child context, But
14:45
Speaker 3: if you go back to those other scenarios that I shared,
14:47
Speaker 3: where you know, maybe teenagers are dealing with some really
14:50
Speaker 3: confronting challenges. What happens if a boyfriend says to his girlfriend,
14:55
Speaker 3: is this something you want to do? And if yes,
14:58
Speaker 3: what can I do to support you to do it
15:00
Speaker 3: way that feels good for you? As opposed to come on,
15:02
Speaker 3: come on, everyone else? Is doing it if you really
15:04
Speaker 3: love me, you would, or the kids down at the
15:05
Speaker 3: beach or down at the park, drinking at the party,
15:07
Speaker 3: or whatever it is. If you've got a child who's
15:09
Speaker 3: saying I don't want to do this or I don't
15:11
Speaker 3: feel good about this, and my inner voice is saying no,
15:13
Speaker 3: and one of their friends says, is it something that
15:15
Speaker 3: you want to do? And if they say no, everyone
15:17
Speaker 3: leaves them alone, or if they say yeah, it is,
15:20
Speaker 3: but then the friend says, well, how do we help
15:21
Speaker 3: you to do it in a way that you feel
15:22
Speaker 3: good about? That's I mean. I'm not encouraging our kids
15:25
Speaker 3: to be involved in any of those kinds of activities.
15:27
Speaker 3: But what I'm suggesting is if we've modeled it well
15:30
Speaker 3: as parents, our kids are going to be more responsive
15:32
Speaker 3: to that in a voice when they get older, because
15:34
Speaker 3: they'll know their mind, they'll know what they want to do,
15:36
Speaker 3: they'll know what's important to them, and I think they'll
15:38
Speaker 3: make better decisions. Hard conversation to have, but an important one.
15:43
Speaker 3: So how far do you push your kids? You don't
15:45
Speaker 3: push them. I don't think you push them. You say
15:47
Speaker 3: to them, this matters to me, and here's why does
15:49
Speaker 3: it matter? To you. Let's be honest. Sometimes we do
15:52
Speaker 3: have our own agenda. But you know what, let me
15:55
Speaker 3: reveal something really challenging and we'll probably wrap up on this.
15:59
Speaker 3: We've got a daughter who gets really anxious about stuff,
16:02
Speaker 3: and she's finished three of her piano exams. She's due
16:05
Speaker 3: to do her Grade four and she could do it
16:07
Speaker 3: very comfortably. She's now playing Grade five piano pieces, but
16:10
Speaker 3: she hates exams. She's terrified of them. And recently we've
16:15
Speaker 3: made a decision the exams matter more to me than
16:18
Speaker 3: they do to her, and so I've stopped asking her
16:21
Speaker 3: to do the exams because they don't matter to her.
16:23
Speaker 3: And whether she's done the exams or not doesn't matter.
16:26
Speaker 3: She can still play grade five pieces without having done
16:28
Speaker 3: the grade four exam, like you're allowed to move up.
16:30
Speaker 3: You can go and buy the book and you can
16:32
Speaker 3: play the next level of piece even if you haven't
16:34
Speaker 3: done the exam. Maybe when she's older, she decides she
16:37
Speaker 3: wants to do the exams, and at that point she'll
16:39
Speaker 3: blitz it because she's doing it because she wants to.
16:41
Speaker 3: But I'm not pushing her, and I feel like life
16:45
Speaker 3: works better that way. And she's found a new No, she's.
16:50
Speaker 2: Got a renewed vigor.
16:51
Speaker 3: Yes, she s loves playing the piano now because she
16:54
Speaker 3: doesn't have the pressure of the exams. Anyway, we hope
16:57
Speaker 3: that this has been a useful, if not somehow unexpectedly
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Speaker 3: important and deep conversation about pushing kids and how far
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Speaker 3: we should push them. If you have any questions, you
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Speaker 3: can send you questions to us podcasts at happy families
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Speaker 3: dot com dot au. That's podcasts with an s at
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Speaker 3: happy families dot com dot au. As always, the Happy
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Speaker 3: Families podcast is produced by Justin Rouland from Bridge Media.
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Speaker 3: Craig Bruce is our executive producer, and if you'd like
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Speaker 3: more info about making your family happier, visit happy families
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Speaker 3: dot com dot au.