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Bengals Booth Podcast: The Room · Bengals Booth Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: I get everybody on dan Hoard and thanks for downloading
0:06
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth podcast The Room where It Happens. Addition,
0:11
Speaker 1: as we get stories from inside the Bengals draft room
0:14
Speaker 1: from a guy who is there for sixteen years, former
0:17
Speaker 1: Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis. The Bengals Booth Podcast is
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Speaker 1: post one of the most downloaded episodes of this podcast
1:33
Speaker 1: every year is Dave Lapham and I take one last
1:37
Speaker 1: look at this year's draft class before predicting who the
1:40
Speaker 1: Bengals are going to pick. But on this episode, we're
1:44
Speaker 1: talking Bengals history with a guy who spent sixteen years
1:48
Speaker 1: in the room where it happens. The NFL Draft is
1:53
Speaker 1: a week away, and it is a treat to welcome
1:55
Speaker 1: in a man who played a big role in selecting
1:57
Speaker 1: some of the best players in Bengals history, Carson Palmer,
2:01
Speaker 1: Andrew Whitworth, Gino Atkins, AJ Green, Andy Dalton, and many others.
2:06
Speaker 1: The winningest coach in Bengals history, Marvin Lewis coach. When
2:10
Speaker 1: you hear some of those names, do you instantly go
2:13
Speaker 1: back to some draft day memories?
2:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dan, that you instantly made me smile. There, Yeah,
2:21
Speaker 2: a lot of great draft day memories, and you know,
2:25
Speaker 2: when you're hoping that the people that we identified it
2:30
Speaker 2: would really help us are there when it's our turn
2:33
Speaker 2: to pick. And I think that's the best part of
2:36
Speaker 2: the draft.
2:37
Speaker 1: You were in a lot of draft weekend war rooms.
2:41
Speaker 1: Will you miss it next week?
2:44
Speaker 2: I was out of it, and then they drug me
2:46
Speaker 2: back in. In fact, the funniest thing is literally one
2:52
Speaker 2: of my first experiences here when I wasn't involved in
2:55
Speaker 2: the draft is getting the text messages from gms about hey,
3:00
Speaker 2: should I pick this guy now? And one of the
3:03
Speaker 2: gms I missed the text message, and now they were
3:07
Speaker 2: in the sixth round. I said, no question the fourth
3:12
Speaker 2: round about a ASU player, and you know, but no,
3:19
Speaker 2: I'll be good. It was great to be in it
3:22
Speaker 2: last year again, and particularly with the exposure I had
3:26
Speaker 2: to all the quarterbacks out of the PAC twelve. They
3:29
Speaker 2: went in the first round and have been have been
3:33
Speaker 2: very significant for their teams. I believed in all three
3:38
Speaker 2: of those guys. I thought they would be good players.
3:40
Speaker 2: I also had exposure to Spencer Ratler from high school.
3:44
Speaker 2: This year, Jackson Dark I was the first person that
3:48
Speaker 2: offered Jackson Dart a scholarship literally and so it'll be cool,
3:54
Speaker 2: but you know, No, I'll be all right.
3:57
Speaker 1: So you were there with Vegas last year, obviously with
4:00
Speaker 1: the Bengals for more than a decade in the draft room.
4:03
Speaker 1: What about prior to that with Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Washington.
4:06
Speaker 1: Were you in draft rooms there?
4:08
Speaker 2: Yeah? I was very fortunate that, you know, really, when
4:12
Speaker 2: I started in ninety two with the Steelers with Bill
4:14
Speaker 2: Kawer and Tom Donaho and the Rooney family, that, yeah,
4:18
Speaker 2: we were in the room. And then later on as
4:20
Speaker 2: I went on to Baltimore, I was in the room
4:22
Speaker 2: as the coordinator and so forth. And in Washington, so yeah,
4:25
Speaker 2: I was always involved and I really owe it to
4:29
Speaker 2: them for them to be including me in that was
4:34
Speaker 2: great to help me in the process as I became
4:37
Speaker 2: the head coach of the Bengals because I had been
4:39
Speaker 2: included in the process.
4:41
Speaker 1: So Marvin Bengals coaches have a big voice in the
4:45
Speaker 1: draft process in Cincinnati. Was that always the case when
4:50
Speaker 1: you got there or did that evolve during your sixteen
4:52
Speaker 1: years as the head coach.
4:53
Speaker 2: No, I think it's been the case. It's how I
4:56
Speaker 2: think Paul Brown and then later Mike Stahl, Mike all
5:00
Speaker 2: the draft going that they wanted the involvement of the coaches.
5:04
Speaker 2: We probably actually backed off a lot when I took
5:07
Speaker 2: over because it would be more than double the scouting staff.
5:13
Speaker 2: And then as time went on with do Tobin taking
5:16
Speaker 2: over and doing such a great job with it, but
5:18
Speaker 2: we added his father, Bill, two or three other scouts
5:23
Speaker 2: right away when I got the job, So we kind
5:26
Speaker 2: of took the coaches out of it and just tried
5:28
Speaker 2: to focus them on areas where we felt like maybe
5:32
Speaker 2: we would take a player at that position, or a
5:35
Speaker 2: guy that maybe was an underclassman or somebody that had
5:38
Speaker 2: some issues coming out, and we tried to focus on
5:41
Speaker 2: those guys with the coaches more.
5:43
Speaker 1: Even so, your very first pick, number one overall was
5:47
Speaker 1: Carson Palmer. I assume it was a no brainer. The
5:51
Speaker 1: next quarterback taken that year was Byron left Which what
5:55
Speaker 1: stands out to you, Marvin about the pre draft process
5:57
Speaker 1: with Carson Palmer was.
6:00
Speaker 2: It was really really cool. That was you know, when
6:03
Speaker 2: I got the job, I'm sitting in the stands with
6:07
Speaker 2: the Brown family, Mike, Troy, Katie and ABPB was there,
6:10
Speaker 2: I can't remember, but and it's the Senior Bowl and
6:13
Speaker 2: Carson's playing in the Senior Bowl, and I have no
6:16
Speaker 2: idea of anything about Carson Palmer, but I'm literally sitting
6:19
Speaker 2: there with them. I think they had already offered me
6:24
Speaker 2: the job, but I had not accepted the job. And
6:26
Speaker 2: I was sitting there in practice and Mike was just
6:29
Speaker 2: doing and all over Carson and it was great. And
6:33
Speaker 2: then getting to know Carson through the process going to
6:36
Speaker 2: sc for pro day. Later on, we went back to California,
6:40
Speaker 2: had a private workout with him which was just off
6:43
Speaker 2: the charts, and we brought him to Cincinnati the two
6:47
Speaker 2: weeks prior to the draft because we had a mini
6:49
Speaker 2: camp to look for me to look at the current team,
6:54
Speaker 2: and Carson was there. Byron Left, which had already been
6:58
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati, we had Carson and Terrence Newman in town
7:02
Speaker 2: for that weekend of our mini camp, and then walking
7:06
Speaker 2: back across the street from practice on Saturday morning, I
7:11
Speaker 2: was walking with Carson and I told him you were
7:13
Speaker 2: going to be our first pick, and I said, you
7:16
Speaker 2: and I are going to be joined to here. And
7:21
Speaker 2: it was an exciting time. And obviously everything worked out.
7:24
Speaker 2: We're able to get him signed right fire to the draft,
7:27
Speaker 2: and it was great, you know, and he never disappointed
7:30
Speaker 2: with what I told before his ability was just incredible.
7:35
Speaker 1: Nobody loves quarterbacks more than Mike, and I think to
7:39
Speaker 1: this day from talking to him, he believes Carson through
7:42
Speaker 1: the prettiest ball of any of the great Bengals quarterbacks.
7:46
Speaker 1: So was it the same for you.
7:48
Speaker 2: No question about it. I used to Dan. I used
7:51
Speaker 2: to stand on the sideline prior to the games and
7:54
Speaker 2: the officials who would be doing their little warm ups
7:56
Speaker 2: where they're running up back and forth, shuffling down the sideline,
7:59
Speaker 2: and I would stand there in the white while Carson
8:01
Speaker 2: was throwing speed cutouts to our wide receivers and I
8:04
Speaker 2: never moved. And one of the officials said to me,
8:07
Speaker 2: I do your games. I've done your games. You're always
8:10
Speaker 2: standing here. He's throwing the ball and you never move.
8:13
Speaker 2: I know he never missed it. It's just boom. It's
8:17
Speaker 2: right there on the receiver's eyes. Every single time. I
8:20
Speaker 2: don't have to move out of the way. They catch it.
8:22
Speaker 2: Boom to step, boom, and it's that. And when Carson
8:26
Speaker 2: got hurt in the spring of two thousand and six
8:29
Speaker 2: and we brought in quarterbacks to work out and have
8:33
Speaker 2: them throw for us, and I just would be standing there,
8:37
Speaker 2: just shaking my head because there was just no comparison,
8:41
Speaker 2: and they had been starting quarterbacks in the National Football League.
8:45
Speaker 1: You didn't play him as rookie year. The Chiefs basically
8:48
Speaker 1: did the same thing a few years ago with Patrick Mahomes.
8:51
Speaker 1: But that is the exception. Nowadays, most of the time
8:54
Speaker 1: guys drafted high play right away. If you were doing
8:57
Speaker 1: it again, would you do the same thing.
9:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably not. But I do know that when I
9:07
Speaker 2: got the job, I had many of the veteran players
9:10
Speaker 2: come into my office and say, we don't need a Martin.
9:13
Speaker 2: We don't need a quarterback. We've got we've got kids,
9:15
Speaker 2: we don't need a quarterback because they had lived through
9:18
Speaker 2: playing with a young quarterback and they really felt like
9:23
Speaker 2: it was the franchise needed to win. They needed to
9:26
Speaker 2: win as players because they know their their lifespan in
9:29
Speaker 2: the National Football League's not very long. And but boy,
9:33
Speaker 2: I tell you what, every day and Carson they practiced.
9:36
Speaker 2: You know, Carson's just turned heads and uh, you know,
9:40
Speaker 2: so we even added I added a period on Wednesday
9:42
Speaker 2: or Thursday and Friday for Carson every week for him
9:47
Speaker 2: to be you know, he he was. He was prepared
9:49
Speaker 2: as a starting quarterback every week. Ken Zampasy, Barbara Counsel
9:53
Speaker 2: did a great job always preparing him as the starting quarterback,
9:57
Speaker 2: and and John Kitt how to be an NFL quarterback
10:01
Speaker 2: and be the leader of the team, which was great.
10:03
Speaker 2: He had a great mental in John, and but we
10:07
Speaker 2: added a period where he was against pressure from the
10:10
Speaker 2: opponents and it was five plays each day and he
10:16
Speaker 2: had to go in and operate because I read an
10:19
Speaker 2: article that Dan Reeves started doing that with Michael Vick
10:22
Speaker 2: when he was a rookie, just to help him get
10:24
Speaker 2: prepared for when he would be the guy. And so
10:27
Speaker 2: it was very beneficial for Carson. And but he just
10:30
Speaker 2: followed us every single day.
10:33
Speaker 1: And you did accomplish your objective with the team. You
10:36
Speaker 1: went five hundred, but you were in playoff contention until
10:39
Speaker 1: the final weeks of the season. It did flip the
10:42
Speaker 1: narrative for the Bengals ability to contend going forward.
10:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really did. The guys believed, you know, they
10:50
Speaker 2: believed in Kit and that was great, and he was
10:53
Speaker 2: able to rally the troops and you know, but we
10:56
Speaker 2: were playing the Bills up there, and I remember there
10:58
Speaker 2: was a pressure team and Kit knew where it was
11:01
Speaker 2: coming and he hang on, and he held onto the
11:03
Speaker 2: ball for as long as he could and hit Peter
11:05
Speaker 2: Board with a big post and then he got down
11:08
Speaker 2: and the blitzer slid right over. And I said, oh,
11:10
Speaker 2: Carson would have been dead from that day. We did
11:15
Speaker 2: that period because I you know, we wanted to prepare him.
11:18
Speaker 2: But yeah, that was great. And then literally I remember
11:22
Speaker 2: January February whatever and called both those guys in Carson
11:26
Speaker 2: and John and said, Carson and juwe ball, now take
11:30
Speaker 2: care of it. And the rest was history.
11:34
Speaker 1: All right, let's hit on some other draft success stories.
11:37
Speaker 1: Andrew Whitworth's fifty fifth pick in two thousand and six,
11:41
Speaker 1: he's gonna wind up in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
11:44
Speaker 1: Did you have any idea what you were getting on
11:47
Speaker 1: and off the field in Big wid Dahn.
11:49
Speaker 2: No question we did. I remember what he was wearing
11:52
Speaker 2: when we interviewed him in Indy. He had on a
11:55
Speaker 2: beautiful white polo button down shirt call or. I mean,
12:01
Speaker 2: he looked like a million bucks. And after he left
12:05
Speaker 2: the room, I said to Paul Alexander, I said, Paul,
12:08
Speaker 2: if we're fortunate enough to draft him, we won't. I
12:11
Speaker 2: won't need you. And then boy, he again never disappointed,
12:20
Speaker 2: and I'm just you know what a great player, person, teammate,
12:28
Speaker 2: mentor an extension of us as coaches Wit and Domitow Peko,
12:34
Speaker 2: but particularly with Brent, brought our team through the lockout
12:39
Speaker 2: and made it stronger. And I remember him calling me
12:43
Speaker 2: when the lockout was over and he said, I can't
12:45
Speaker 2: wait to give this back to you because he was
12:50
Speaker 2: dealing with all the issues the players had, you know,
12:53
Speaker 2: from insurance and all those other things they had to
12:55
Speaker 2: deal with during that period of time. But Andrew was
12:59
Speaker 2: the best, you know, as Carson moved on and we draft,
13:04
Speaker 2: we're fortunate enough to draft Andy. He was a great,
13:07
Speaker 2: great caddy for Andy and mentor and you know, and
13:13
Speaker 2: then he passed it on Andy, Sandy, it's your time
13:15
Speaker 2: now to be the leader.
13:17
Speaker 1: You mentioned Domata Peco. That's the same draft as Andrew Whitworth.
13:21
Speaker 1: I mean, the odds of getting your offensive heart beat
13:24
Speaker 1: in terms of leadership and the same thing on the
13:27
Speaker 1: defensive end in the same draft. It's pretty extraordinary.
13:32
Speaker 2: And I think I want to say, and I think
13:34
Speaker 2: there was another player with John Joseph also.
13:37
Speaker 1: He was the first pick in that draft.
13:38
Speaker 2: YEP, that those guys set a record for the most
13:42
Speaker 2: games played in the National Football League out of a
13:46
Speaker 2: draft class. I remember, I think there was an article
13:49
Speaker 2: written by somebody a few years ago. And I don't
13:53
Speaker 2: know who the third round pick was that year, but
13:57
Speaker 2: I know Domita was four. Obviously, with too we had
14:01
Speaker 2: the running back Kenny Irons was also a second who
14:04
Speaker 2: got hurt with the ACL injury. But I can't remember
14:07
Speaker 2: who the third round pick was, but there and I
14:10
Speaker 2: think maybe it was one other guy, but they set
14:13
Speaker 2: a record who were games in the National Football League
14:16
Speaker 2: out of one draft round by one team?
14:19
Speaker 1: Twoy ten. Your fourth pick, number one twenty overall was
14:25
Speaker 1: Gino Atkins, who went on to play in eight Pro Bowls.
14:28
Speaker 1: Do you recall if anybody in particular was quote unquote
14:33
Speaker 1: standing on the table and really trying to make the
14:35
Speaker 1: case for Gino.
14:36
Speaker 2: Oh, Zim and I both did. We literally had identified
14:44
Speaker 2: Gino as other than we knew Sue and the kid
14:48
Speaker 2: from Oklahoma were going to go at the top of
14:50
Speaker 2: the draft in the first round, and we thought Gino
14:54
Speaker 2: was going to be as good or better path rusher
14:57
Speaker 2: inside path rusher as those two guys, and so we
15:01
Speaker 2: we were so excited when he was there and we
15:05
Speaker 2: picked him in the fourth round. You know, Gino's personality
15:10
Speaker 2: of being so quiet and you know, but just you know,
15:14
Speaker 2: we brought him on as a rookie. He started playing
15:17
Speaker 2: on third down in twenty ten and then became the
15:19
Speaker 2: full start starter in twenty eleven.
15:23
Speaker 1: You must have been rolling the dice a little bit
15:25
Speaker 1: that he would be there in round four if you
15:27
Speaker 1: felt that highly about him as an interior pass rusher.
15:29
Speaker 2: Well, there was some you know, for whatever reason, there
15:32
Speaker 2: were some negative thoughts about Geno coming out and obviously
15:37
Speaker 2: his stature people doubted question that also, but you know, literally,
15:44
Speaker 2: I think you know, obviously Aaron Donald had a tremendous career,
15:48
Speaker 2: but Aaron you know, was probably just maybe a little
15:51
Speaker 2: bit more explosive obviously, but but but you know, you know,
15:54
Speaker 2: he began to he he changed how people looked at
15:58
Speaker 2: defensive tackle and uh, you know, and and and that's
16:02
Speaker 2: great and we were so so fortunate to have him.
16:07
Speaker 2: We also drafted Carlos dun Left in the second round
16:10
Speaker 2: that year, so uh, you know, we got a lot
16:13
Speaker 2: of production out of those guys.
16:15
Speaker 1: What was coach Zimmer like in the draft room when
16:17
Speaker 1: there was a guy on the board that he really really.
16:20
Speaker 2: Won patients, you know, and you know, we all come
16:29
Speaker 2: from different backgrounds. Zim basically had spent most of his
16:32
Speaker 2: NFL career with the Cowboys prior to that, and uh,
16:36
Speaker 2: you know, so he was used to people how they
16:40
Speaker 2: did it differently, and uh, you know it spent one
16:43
Speaker 2: year in Atlanta. So but you know, the thing about
16:47
Speaker 2: it is, and I told our coaches just you know,
16:51
Speaker 2: they were fortunate that Mike wanted to hear their opinion.
16:54
Speaker 2: And so just be right, you know what I'm saying,
16:57
Speaker 2: because when we put our when we put our ticket
17:00
Speaker 2: on one of these guys, he's odd, and so let's go,
17:03
Speaker 2: let's go make him the best.
17:05
Speaker 1: I remember coach Gunther coming out of draft rooms muttering
17:09
Speaker 1: anytime a high pick was used on an offensive player
17:11
Speaker 1: instead of somebody that could help his side of the ball.
17:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, no question about it. No. No. It's funny though,
17:20
Speaker 2: because when I started in Pittsburgh in ninety two, you know,
17:23
Speaker 2: I was out of the Bill Kawer. I was the
17:25
Speaker 2: youngest coach on the staff, and none of those guys
17:28
Speaker 2: wanted a high pick because they knew they had to
17:29
Speaker 2: getting ready to play. But it's great when the coaches
17:34
Speaker 2: do want to want to get a guy that they
17:37
Speaker 2: think will help them improve on their side of the football.
17:40
Speaker 2: And it's great, you know, but not everybody can have
17:44
Speaker 2: every every round pick. You know, we got to build
17:47
Speaker 2: the entire football team.
17:50
Speaker 1: I'm sure in your sixteen years there were guys that
17:52
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily your choice. And I'm not going to ask
17:55
Speaker 1: you to name names. But when that was the case,
17:58
Speaker 1: was it difficult to be the person that then had
18:00
Speaker 1: to go in front of the cameras and and sell
18:03
Speaker 1: the wisdom of that choice.
18:04
Speaker 2: No, damn believe it or not. And I think we
18:08
Speaker 2: got to this early the fact that the pick wasn't mine, Mike's,
18:12
Speaker 2: it was the Bangles pick. And I think that was
18:15
Speaker 2: really important. I know that when I when I got
18:18
Speaker 2: the job, that was important to Mike that we stayed
18:21
Speaker 2: unified and uh. And it was my I took it
18:25
Speaker 2: on as my responsibility too, for all of us to
18:30
Speaker 2: be involved and convince everybody why or why not? And uh.
18:34
Speaker 2: And you know, we made some errors and some mistakes,
18:37
Speaker 2: and but what we always learned from them. You know,
18:40
Speaker 2: I think one you know, taking a cornerback that didn't
18:43
Speaker 2: quite have the foot speed to do what we needed
18:46
Speaker 2: to do. You know, what we're looking for the next year,
18:49
Speaker 2: a cornerback that could do what we're looking for him
18:51
Speaker 2: to do. And so we learned from sometimes when we
18:55
Speaker 2: maybe reached a little bit and uh, you know, and
18:59
Speaker 2: those were good thing. So and that's the process is
19:02
Speaker 2: You're not always going to be right. It's not one
19:05
Speaker 2: pick or one person's choice. It was it was basically
19:09
Speaker 2: for the most part of group effort that way. And
19:12
Speaker 2: we respected that process and I thought we we we
19:15
Speaker 2: got good at that process. And Duke took it over
19:18
Speaker 2: and managed that process, which was great.
19:22
Speaker 1: What's Duke's strength as a draft guru.
19:26
Speaker 2: I think not getting swayed by popularity. You know that
19:31
Speaker 2: he lets the the video and the physical characteristics do
19:36
Speaker 2: the work. And the fact that we dove into the person.
19:42
Speaker 2: You know, the thing about the draft and the National
19:45
Speaker 2: Football League is and you can open up the hood.
19:49
Speaker 2: And we made sure we tried to open up the
19:51
Speaker 2: hood as much as we could. And uh, and I
19:54
Speaker 2: think that that part of the process, you know, Duke
19:57
Speaker 2: and I would start we would talk about that before
19:59
Speaker 2: we were go over to Indy because I had no
20:01
Speaker 2: idea who these guys were, and he would give me
20:04
Speaker 2: a little bit of a preview myself personally, and then
20:07
Speaker 2: we would preview the coaches on guys and so forth,
20:10
Speaker 2: and who the targets that we really wanted to know
20:13
Speaker 2: more about them, their personality. Was this a guy that
20:17
Speaker 2: was a good fit for us personality wise, and then
20:21
Speaker 2: just convincing everybody in the process, there's a lot of
20:24
Speaker 2: good players. If this guy doesn't fit the mold, let's
20:28
Speaker 2: move on to the next guy that does. Even if
20:30
Speaker 2: he doesn't, maybe a great fit for the positions. It
20:33
Speaker 2: makes our football team stronger. And I think Mike allowing
20:37
Speaker 2: that to happen was huge, you know that, you know,
20:42
Speaker 2: we didn't have to go with a popular pick. We
20:44
Speaker 2: went with the one that fit us.
20:46
Speaker 1: So it sounds like those personal visits, whether it was
20:49
Speaker 1: at the combine or back in Cincinnati, were really important to.
20:53
Speaker 2: You, yes, or going out on campus, you know, to
20:56
Speaker 2: the to the players campus, taking that player to dinner,
21:00
Speaker 2: spending time my greatest thing. And because I got put
21:04
Speaker 2: on the competition com many by Missioner Tagliabu and six,
21:08
Speaker 2: I wasn't able to get out to as many pro
21:11
Speaker 2: days until the lockout team and then I realized what
21:15
Speaker 2: I was missing, and so I was able to start
21:18
Speaker 2: going to selected workout and being a fly on the
21:23
Speaker 2: wall and watching how the player was interacting with his teammates,
21:31
Speaker 2: the respect his teammates had for that player, and how
21:34
Speaker 2: the respect he had for his teammates, and it was
21:36
Speaker 2: that guy a good fit and that was the thing.
21:41
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you a quick story. When we went
21:44
Speaker 2: to work out Cam Newton, great physical talent, we couldn't
21:49
Speaker 2: get a receiver to catch for him. We went to
21:51
Speaker 2: Florida State or we worked out Ponder and he was
21:55
Speaker 2: at home in Dallas. So we were able to get
21:57
Speaker 2: the kids from SMU to help catch and do that.
22:02
Speaker 2: We go to Saint Louis and to Missouri to work
22:06
Speaker 2: out Gabbert and we got a flying coaches to catch.
22:09
Speaker 2: We go to TCU, the entire football team is there
22:16
Speaker 2: as part of the process with Andy Dalton, and that
22:18
Speaker 2: that that said a lot about what Andy Dalton meant
22:22
Speaker 2: to its teammates. And you know that that was a lot.
22:28
Speaker 1: This reminds me of the movie Draft Day where the
22:31
Speaker 1: players didn't show up for the top prospects birthday party,
22:35
Speaker 1: and Kevin Costner remembered that so things like that do
22:39
Speaker 1: happen that that makes an impression.
22:41
Speaker 2: It makes an impression. That morning, you know, literally I
22:46
Speaker 2: think we had I can't remember who was in town,
22:49
Speaker 2: but I flew into dall on good Friday morning early.
22:53
Speaker 2: When I got on the plane, there was the USA
22:55
Speaker 2: Today on my chair and I read the article. In
22:59
Speaker 2: the article it said the team that's fortunate enough to
23:02
Speaker 2: draft AJ Green and Andy Dalton will be the big
23:05
Speaker 2: winners in the draft. When I landed in Dallas, I
23:09
Speaker 2: drove over to the campus and I met the coaches
23:12
Speaker 2: for breakfast. They had taken Andy to dinner the night
23:14
Speaker 2: before and met.
23:15
Speaker 3: With the and they're like, man, I've been talking to nobody,
23:22
Speaker 3: but we literally held our breath and we were able
23:25
Speaker 3: to draft Andy AJ obviously at number four, and then
23:29
Speaker 3: later Andy Dalton.
23:30
Speaker 2: And you know, it sprung us forward again, which was great.
23:35
Speaker 1: So other than Carson, AJ was your only other top
23:39
Speaker 1: five pick, because you mentioned number four. Overall, that twenty
23:42
Speaker 1: eleven draft is considered one of the all time great drafts.
23:46
Speaker 1: JJ Watt, von Miller, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones. You mentioned
23:51
Speaker 1: Cam Newton, who took the Panthers to the Super Bowl
23:54
Speaker 1: twelve of the top sixteen picks in that draft were
23:56
Speaker 1: Pro bowlers. What tipped the scales in favor of A. J.
24:00
Speaker 2: Green just the way he carried himself, you know, A
24:05
Speaker 2: Julio Patrick Peterson I had met, We met with them all.
24:12
Speaker 2: In fact, I think the META had Julio in town
24:15
Speaker 2: before I went to meet with Andy, and Cam had
24:19
Speaker 2: been there the day before, and uh, and then I
24:23
Speaker 2: met with Patrick Peterson in the airport after I came
24:26
Speaker 2: back from Dallas of being with Andy and Ponder and uh,
24:32
Speaker 2: we literally met with him in the uh in the
24:36
Speaker 2: airport lounge there at CBG, so when he was on
24:40
Speaker 2: his way flying to his next stop. So, yeah, we
24:43
Speaker 2: were excited. Uh. You know, at that number four slot,
24:48
Speaker 2: we would have picked we wanted obviously our AJ, but
24:52
Speaker 2: we would have picked vond had uh, you know, had
24:57
Speaker 2: AJ been gone. You know, that was the decision of
25:00
Speaker 2: Von Miller and AJ Green, and then the Cincinnati Bengals
25:04
Speaker 2: would have been a three to four defense in Von Miller.
25:06
Speaker 2: You know, then we knew what we had to do
25:08
Speaker 2: then was prepared to make the switch so that we
25:11
Speaker 2: could you know, really maximize Von's ability.
25:14
Speaker 1: Couldn't go wrong either way.
25:16
Speaker 2: No, that's exactly right. And then Patrick Peterson was our
25:20
Speaker 2: fallback guy if we had to move back in the draft,
25:23
Speaker 2: and if if Cam was there, we were going to
25:26
Speaker 2: pick Cam. And Jay Gruden was prepared to build the
25:30
Speaker 2: Cam Newton offense. So, you know, that's the thing. I think,
25:34
Speaker 2: the involvement of our coaches, our coordinators. I was so
25:37
Speaker 2: fortunate to have guys that were so invested in that
25:41
Speaker 2: like that.
25:43
Speaker 1: So a bunch of quarterbacks and you you mentioned several
25:46
Speaker 1: of them were taken before Andy in that twenty eleven drafting.
25:50
Speaker 1: You took him in the second round. What was it
25:52
Speaker 1: about Andy? I know Jay Gruden was really high on him.
25:55
Speaker 1: Why did you guys think that this guy would be
25:57
Speaker 1: ready from day one?
25:59
Speaker 2: He never knew to throw. I literally, I was watching
26:04
Speaker 2: this guy from TCU and I go into Jay's office.
26:10
Speaker 2: I said, this quarterback from TCU never miss it. I say,
26:14
Speaker 2: have you looked at it? And yeah, he's my favorite
26:18
Speaker 2: and he goes he was on the other team that
26:21
Speaker 2: you coached at the Senior Bowl. And I didn't even
26:23
Speaker 2: realize that, you know, I said, it's awesome. We just
26:31
Speaker 2: held our breath. We sent the quarterbacks a little book
26:37
Speaker 2: before they came to visit us a little like playbook
26:40
Speaker 2: that Jay had put together. Andy came in and had
26:45
Speaker 2: some type bears when he brought it into visit with us.
26:51
Speaker 2: You know this right here, and and that was so
26:55
Speaker 2: so impressive, you know, you know, but we we literally
27:00
Speaker 2: held our breath, we did we uh uh? Later on,
27:04
Speaker 2: Bill Polly and told me, he said, you know, he did.
27:08
Speaker 2: They didn't know that the injury that Peyton Nanny had
27:11
Speaker 2: to his neck was going to be so severe, and
27:14
Speaker 2: they ended up picking the offen tackle Costanza instead of Andy.
27:20
Speaker 2: And he said to me one time, he said, you know,
27:23
Speaker 2: we just I just didn't know Peyton's injury was as
27:26
Speaker 2: severe as it was. And you know, we would have
27:29
Speaker 2: picked Andy Dalton. That was the guy that they had
27:31
Speaker 2: targeted also, and you know, Carl Kaepernick went the very
27:35
Speaker 2: next pick. Colin had Colin at the Senior Bowl and
27:40
Speaker 2: he and Locker at the Senior Bowl where the quarterbacks
27:44
Speaker 2: we had on a squad.
27:46
Speaker 1: Out of all of those quarterbacks, take it in that draft.
27:48
Speaker 1: Andy's had the longest career, and you know, you can
27:51
Speaker 1: make the case the most successful. Cam had a great run,
27:54
Speaker 1: but it didn't last nearly as long. And Andy's still
27:57
Speaker 1: going strong.
27:58
Speaker 2: If you look at Andy's numbers, really incredible in comparison
28:02
Speaker 2: to the guys that have earned Hall of Fame quarterback.
28:05
Speaker 2: The thinging about it, I will tell you that I
28:09
Speaker 2: had a you know, last year, We're getting ready to
28:11
Speaker 2: play the Carolina Panthers and on Tuesday morning they announced
28:15
Speaker 2: Andy Dalkins at starting quarterback and I just get a
28:17
Speaker 2: sick feeling in my stomach because I know what we're
28:21
Speaker 2: in for. I know that he's going to be prepared.
28:24
Speaker 2: I know he's going to know where every pressure is
28:26
Speaker 2: coming from, the looks and everything, and he's going to
28:28
Speaker 2: be able to get ready with football. And we had
28:31
Speaker 2: to play an outstanding game and we didn't and they
28:34
Speaker 2: beat us.
28:35
Speaker 1: Coming up next with coach Lewis, I'll look back at
28:38
Speaker 1: the two thousand and five draft. One that could have
28:41
Speaker 1: gone down is among the best in team history if
28:44
Speaker 1: not for a misfortune and tragedy. But first, here's a
28:49
Speaker 1: quick reminder that the Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to
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29:10
Speaker 1: the Bengals. Marvin, you had some great drafts in Cincinnati.
29:15
Speaker 1: Of any in Bengals history, this is the one that
29:17
Speaker 1: might go down and probably does go down as the
29:19
Speaker 1: most heartbreaking. You took David Pollock in round one, he
29:23
Speaker 1: played one year before his neck injury. He took Odell
29:26
Speaker 1: Thurman in round two. He had the best rookie year
29:28
Speaker 1: of any defensive player in franchise history, and then he
29:31
Speaker 1: never played again because of off the field issues. And
29:34
Speaker 1: then in round three it took Chris Henry, who was
29:37
Speaker 1: terrific for four and a half seasons and obviously was
29:40
Speaker 1: the most tragic story of all as he passed away
29:42
Speaker 1: at the age of twenty six. How much different is
29:46
Speaker 1: Bengals history if those players had long careers, no.
29:51
Speaker 2: Question about it. David Pollack again, pold your breath moment
29:58
Speaker 2: brought him to Cincinnati the end of the process. Biggest
30:02
Speaker 2: Jim Ratt had man named at Georgia when he was
30:05
Speaker 2: a young player and watched him after its freshman season.
30:11
Speaker 2: Just incredible. He was going to be our Carson Palmer
30:14
Speaker 2: of the defense, and you know, had brought Kevin Green
30:19
Speaker 2: to training campus with Kevin their jersey there to help
30:23
Speaker 2: mentor David, and David wasn't signing. Kevin had to leave. Literally,
30:27
Speaker 2: Kevin drove the Cincinnati from Canton after being inducted in
30:32
Speaker 2: the Pro Football Hall of Fame to be there with
30:35
Speaker 2: David Pollock. How about that? And you know, and David
30:41
Speaker 2: was unsigny, so Kevin came and gone before David got
30:44
Speaker 2: the camp.
30:45
Speaker 1: Got to say hi, but not doing anything.
30:48
Speaker 2: But you know, just incredible, O'Dell, Just what a fine,
30:53
Speaker 2: fine player could have been a starting half back in
30:56
Speaker 2: the National Football League. That's the kind of athlete. Ose
30:58
Speaker 2: y'all was. Smarter a whip, took up got football. I
31:03
Speaker 2: said to Mike Brown after the first practice of rookie camp,
31:06
Speaker 2: He's just like Reddy Lewis. And literally seven years later
31:12
Speaker 2: I said that again after the first day minicamp about
31:16
Speaker 2: Oneteed perfect.
31:17
Speaker 1: He's just like Ray and in what ways.
31:22
Speaker 2: Instinctive, never wasted a step, smart as a whip, picked
31:26
Speaker 2: up football like that made people around them better so sudden,
31:34
Speaker 2: and when they hit you, it's like getting hit by
31:36
Speaker 2: cinder block. You know, so just incredible. I did my
31:43
Speaker 2: last season going to Georgia for the pro day. I
31:48
Speaker 2: was at Georgia. Somebody came up from behind me and
31:50
Speaker 2: hugged me, and I turned around and it was Odell
31:54
Speaker 2: and I had the biggest smile on my face. I
31:57
Speaker 2: was so glad that he was there doing well. Coach
32:01
Speaker 2: Rick took care of him. Kirby has taken care of
32:03
Speaker 2: him since, you know, giving him a role there at
32:06
Speaker 2: the University of Georgia. And I'm just so relieved he
32:09
Speaker 2: was doing well. And he's like, Coach, I don't have
32:12
Speaker 2: anything went on play, so literally we had Adam No
32:18
Speaker 2: make up the jersey for Odell and senate to him,
32:23
Speaker 2: framed it, sent it to him, you know, just I mean,
32:26
Speaker 2: you're right. And Chris Henry, I mean, I remember a
32:30
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving the writers were writing that we had three first
32:34
Speaker 2: round picks. You know that, you know, two thirds of
32:38
Speaker 2: the way, three fourths away three that season that you
32:41
Speaker 2: know we had won the draft with three first round picks.
32:45
Speaker 2: You know, you Jackson came back from West Virginia just
32:49
Speaker 2: raving about Chris Henry and they had watched one on
32:52
Speaker 2: one film with him and Adam Jones, and him just
32:54
Speaker 2: taken Adam a park Adam or that.
32:58
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see Adam out.
33:01
Speaker 2: But that's how impressive it was was to see those
33:04
Speaker 2: two compete. And they had watched Lily a one on
33:07
Speaker 2: one practice tape when they were at WVU and you
33:12
Speaker 2: know Christly with special And yes, it was so unfortunate.
33:15
Speaker 2: He had basically turned his life around. And when the
33:21
Speaker 2: accident in the curb.
33:23
Speaker 1: You coached so many great linebackers in Pittsburgh and Baltimore
33:27
Speaker 1: and elsewhere, and I think people forget how impactful Odell
33:32
Speaker 1: was his rookie year. Five interceptions, five forced fumbles, a
33:36
Speaker 1: ton of tackles. He was on his way to being
33:40
Speaker 1: one of the best linebackers in the league.
33:42
Speaker 2: No question about it, no question about it. He just
33:45
Speaker 2: was so instinctive, so sudden. We were able to use
33:50
Speaker 2: him as a blitzer, as a cover guy. He could
33:53
Speaker 2: do it all, and you know, and he was smart
33:56
Speaker 2: enough to get it right for the most part if
33:59
Speaker 2: he jumping offside when he was glitzing, but other than that,
34:04
Speaker 2: But no, we were we were really fortunate. And uh,
34:08
Speaker 2: you know, uh, he just you know, was dealing with
34:11
Speaker 2: a lot of you know, demons, in his life that
34:14
Speaker 2: you learned.
34:15
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, So from your sixteen Bengals drafts, do you have
34:20
Speaker 1: a pick that isn't as obvious as some of the
34:23
Speaker 1: ones that I've mentioned that you thought was especially impactful.
34:28
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously these first rounders the picked were so
34:31
Speaker 2: impactful on our squad. You know, tyer Riifer let me
34:34
Speaker 2: change the game for it. You know, he really did.
34:38
Speaker 2: And you know it means such such a difference in
34:41
Speaker 2: what we were doing and everything that way. You know, uh,
34:45
Speaker 2: you know Chris Perry before he gets hurt, you know,
34:50
Speaker 2: such the athleticism, the ability to catch the run, to
34:53
Speaker 2: do everything with tremendous you know, uh, Leon All and
35:01
Speaker 2: what he and John Joseph were able to do. Leon
35:03
Speaker 2: was a great mentor to John Joseph. Uh and watching
35:08
Speaker 2: those two grow up together, you know, it was just
35:11
Speaker 2: it's just incredible. Guy down like Georgia I Loca fourth
35:17
Speaker 2: round pick. You know, you know Sean this, you know,
35:22
Speaker 2: we were just so lucky and uh, you know that's
35:25
Speaker 2: the part of the uh, maybe from recruiting in college,
35:29
Speaker 2: through being involved in the draft process. You know, in
35:32
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh in my first year, we draft Levon Kirkland in
35:35
Speaker 2: my position. Next year, we draft Chad Brown, next year
35:38
Speaker 2: we draft Jason Gilden, I mean Dante and so they
35:41
Speaker 2: all three of them became Pro Bowl players, and it
35:45
Speaker 2: just they included me in the process, and I was
35:49
Speaker 2: very very fortunate that and uh and so when I
35:52
Speaker 2: moved on to Baltimore, the first pick we'd pick on
35:55
Speaker 2: defense is Ray Lewis. And literally I was still in
35:59
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh when I went to the Combine that year, and
36:02
Speaker 2: I had watched plays at Miami and I shut the
36:06
Speaker 2: tape off and one got Dick Leabow and it's a dick.
36:08
Speaker 2: You got to see this guy. Five plays, That's all
36:11
Speaker 2: I watched. I went to the combine, introduced myself and
36:14
Speaker 2: I said, you know, I'm Marvin Lewis'm the linebacker coach
36:17
Speaker 2: at Pittsburgh. Steve, you're a hell of a player. I'll
36:20
Speaker 2: never get to coach you, but good luck to you.
36:24
Speaker 2: Two weeks later, I was the defensive coordinator in Baltimore
36:29
Speaker 2: and we picked him at number twenty six because he
36:33
Speaker 2: didn't run that but boy was his sudden. And I
36:37
Speaker 2: would tease Jesse Armstead and Michael Barrow down the line
36:41
Speaker 2: that if they hadn't come out before him at Miami.
36:44
Speaker 2: When I was in the process with the Steelers, they
36:47
Speaker 2: would not have been a Ray Lewis. You know, that
36:49
Speaker 2: would not have been so lucky. But those guys helped
36:52
Speaker 2: me because I wasn't as high on them coming down
36:55
Speaker 2: in the draft and they were very, very productive NFL player,
36:59
Speaker 2: So they taught me a lesson of what Ray could be.
37:03
Speaker 2: And uh, and that's the fun of the process. And
37:06
Speaker 2: you gotta you gotta dig deep into it and get
37:09
Speaker 2: into it. And and that's the thing that I loved
37:12
Speaker 2: about Mike Brown. As soon as the seasons over, Mike's
37:15
Speaker 2: ready to draft. I mean, this is the this week.
37:18
Speaker 2: He can't wait to get to the draft. You know,
37:21
Speaker 2: he loves it. And uh and that's so great because
37:25
Speaker 2: he's involved, he's excited about it, and uh you know, uh,
37:30
Speaker 2: but I'm literally as soon as the season he's ready
37:32
Speaker 2: to get to the draft. And uh, you know so.
37:36
Speaker 2: And then once the draft's over, he's ready to get
37:38
Speaker 2: to the season. Let's cut the that's cut the team
37:42
Speaker 2: and get to the season. And you know, because he this,
37:46
Speaker 2: this is what he does, this is his lifeblood. It's
37:48
Speaker 2: all he worried about is the football team. And winning.
37:51
Speaker 1: Do you guys stay in frequent contact?
37:54
Speaker 2: Yes, I I check in, you know, once a month
37:56
Speaker 2: or so, and uh, you know, uh, you know, when
38:00
Speaker 2: you spend sixteen years, you know, and probably for the
38:04
Speaker 2: first eleven or twelve talk to somebody every single day.
38:09
Speaker 2: You know. People can't believe that we would sit out
38:11
Speaker 2: and meet every day and it might be five minutes,
38:14
Speaker 2: it might be fifty five minutes. But that's all he does.
38:18
Speaker 2: Twenty four to seven, three sixty five. The man went
38:21
Speaker 2: on one vacation when I was here two years. I
38:25
Speaker 2: think this is what he cares about, is that football
38:28
Speaker 2: team and winning. And obviously this year with them making
38:31
Speaker 2: the move they did and bringing back tight end and
38:34
Speaker 2: both receivers, and now that they go into the draft prostics,
38:38
Speaker 2: they got to sway it a little bit to the
38:39
Speaker 2: defensive side.
38:40
Speaker 1: I would imagine, you know, I've been thinking of something
38:45
Speaker 1: you said, Marvin, as the Bengals prepare for this draft, because,
38:49
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, after re signing Tea and Jamar and
38:53
Speaker 1: obviously Joe's extension last year, they're going to have to
38:55
Speaker 1: be younger and cheaper on defense. That's just the way
38:58
Speaker 1: it is. I just thinkly, remember you at some point
39:01
Speaker 1: saying you need young legs on defense, and that's ringing
39:07
Speaker 1: in my head right now as they prepare for this draft.
39:10
Speaker 2: You really that's the beauty of the draft. And it
39:14
Speaker 2: was kind of funny that the year of the lockout
39:17
Speaker 2: we reverse the process so you're able to go through
39:21
Speaker 2: the draft and then fill in with free agency after
39:26
Speaker 2: the draft, which would be the ideal way to do it,
39:31
Speaker 2: which then your whole draft board would be opened. You know,
39:35
Speaker 2: you really wouldn't worry about we got to make sure
39:37
Speaker 2: we get a guy at some point here or there.
39:40
Speaker 2: You can just pick the best players throughout and then
39:43
Speaker 2: fill in with free agents if you could do that process.
39:47
Speaker 2: But no, I really believe that, you know, particularly you know,
39:52
Speaker 2: you're what the colleges are doing now that you can
39:57
Speaker 2: get guys, you know, defensive linemen, the interior guys, edge guys.
40:03
Speaker 2: There's so many edge guys that can change the game.
40:06
Speaker 2: I mean, you look at last year's draft class and
40:08
Speaker 2: how many edge guys came out and were productive as rookies,
40:12
Speaker 2: you know, because that's what they're doing in college. And
40:15
Speaker 2: then you look at the corners and the safeties because
40:19
Speaker 2: they have to be able to cover so those are
40:21
Speaker 2: the things. And you know, and unfortunately the fungible position
40:25
Speaker 2: as a linebacker. You know, but you can be the
40:30
Speaker 2: game has changed so much. Well now you're looking for athletes,
40:33
Speaker 2: and that's what they had in Cincinnati in the two
40:36
Speaker 2: interior and I think one of the guys left now,
40:38
Speaker 2: but that's what they had and two good athletes inside
40:42
Speaker 2: and fifty seven and fifty five. You know, both guys
40:45
Speaker 2: were good athletes. And that's what we were able to
40:48
Speaker 2: have back in the day when we had Caleb Miller
40:52
Speaker 2: and Landon Johnson. They weren't big, but they were athletes,
40:55
Speaker 2: you know, through that little stretch and then we ended
40:58
Speaker 2: up getting a little bigger as we went.
41:00
Speaker 1: When you evaluated players, what did you prioritize and what
41:05
Speaker 1: were your non negotiables?
41:08
Speaker 2: They had to be competitive non negotial right there. And
41:13
Speaker 2: I think the second thing, they had to be smart
41:16
Speaker 2: enough to handle the changes and that you do game
41:22
Speaker 2: plan wise and even sometimes in between series. You know,
41:29
Speaker 2: I was blessed as a young coach to be around
41:31
Speaker 2: the Rod Woodson uh to see how smart guys could
41:36
Speaker 2: be and and and be impactful that way. And so
41:42
Speaker 2: but those were the things, you know, and then as
41:45
Speaker 2: far as you know what you're looking for, we're looking
41:47
Speaker 2: for guys that were you know, I said this from
41:50
Speaker 2: the start, big strong, physical men. We were competing in
41:55
Speaker 2: the most physical division in the National Football League and
41:58
Speaker 2: we had to go be more physical than Baltimore Pittsburgh.
42:03
Speaker 2: And at the time I was there, Cleveland was drafting
42:05
Speaker 2: at the top of the draft every year. So I
42:07
Speaker 2: mean a yukawuiji board and hit on somebody, you know,
42:11
Speaker 2: with your eyes shut.
42:12
Speaker 1: They got the second pick this year. So some things
42:14
Speaker 1: have changed.
42:17
Speaker 2: But we had to be able to withstand. And I
42:19
Speaker 2: think about from when I started in those first signing
42:22
Speaker 2: of free agents Reggie Kelly, because we had to be
42:26
Speaker 2: able to block the perimeter guys that Baltimore and Pittsburgh had,
42:30
Speaker 2: and Reggie Kelly was that guy for us. But then
42:33
Speaker 2: the leadership that we brought in, But those are the
42:36
Speaker 2: things they announced answer your question. We needed to get
42:40
Speaker 2: bigger and stronger and more physical. I mean, when Michael
42:44
Speaker 2: Johnson and Carlos Dunlaugh and those guys got off the bus,
42:47
Speaker 2: they were big men, and that's what we wanted to
42:50
Speaker 2: look like. And the same thing on the conversing on
42:52
Speaker 2: the other side of the ball was with the offensive line.
42:55
Speaker 2: They had to be big, strong, physical people, and we're
42:59
Speaker 2: able to always put good runners behind him. Physical runner,
43:02
Speaker 2: you know, from Corey to Rudy. J just said obviously
43:07
Speaker 2: the Joe Mixon and all the other guys that came,
43:11
Speaker 2: you know in between Ben Jarvis. You know, Uh, that's
43:14
Speaker 2: the kind of football we played, and so we had
43:16
Speaker 2: to be great at that and drafted that. You know,
43:20
Speaker 2: when we had Rudy, we draft Chris Perry because we
43:23
Speaker 2: felt like he offered a change up in a different style. Uh,
43:27
Speaker 2: and the same thing with with oh, our guy from
43:34
Speaker 2: North Carolina, you know, the accident, the guys that we
43:37
Speaker 2: had during those times, you know, Geo he had to
43:41
Speaker 2: you know, so we were always trying to make sure
43:44
Speaker 2: that we had flexibility and versatility and what we were
43:47
Speaker 2: doing within the football team.
43:49
Speaker 1: Do you still feel that way about the AFC North
43:52
Speaker 1: or did your opinion of it for standing out in
43:55
Speaker 1: that sense change from the last couple of years you
43:58
Speaker 1: spent with the Raiders.
43:58
Speaker 2: I was get involved against it this year, so yes.
44:02
Speaker 2: And Cleveland is that now they're a physical football team,
44:05
Speaker 2: you know, up front on offense, and uh, they you know,
44:08
Speaker 2: their backs were a little bit dinged up and injured
44:10
Speaker 2: this year, but but that's what they do. And obviously
44:14
Speaker 2: Baltimore hasn't changed in Pittsburgh has yet to change, so
44:18
Speaker 2: it's really it's still the same. I mean, you know,
44:22
Speaker 2: the Bengals, because of the quarterback and the skill on offense,
44:26
Speaker 2: they go about it a different way.
44:28
Speaker 1: You know, So this one might be difficult. But do
44:32
Speaker 1: you remember any specific times where there was a player
44:36
Speaker 1: who was taken just before the Bengals selection where it
44:40
Speaker 1: really broke your heart?
44:42
Speaker 2: There always is right, you know what I mean, there's
44:44
Speaker 2: no question about it if there always is a player
44:48
Speaker 2: and you know that that maybe goes right before you.
44:54
Speaker 2: You know the thing, and that's why you know that.
44:57
Speaker 2: You know, people think you go into the draft, uh,
45:00
Speaker 2: you know, you have certain targets. You hope you can
45:03
Speaker 2: get some, but you know you got to be know
45:06
Speaker 2: that the other teams are doing their work as well,
45:08
Speaker 2: and sometimes the guy just doesn't quite get to you.
45:11
Speaker 2: And you know, the way Mike did the process was
45:14
Speaker 2: really good. You know, we would be four or five
45:16
Speaker 2: picks from our from our pick and we would have
45:19
Speaker 2: you know, he wanted to have six names, five or
45:22
Speaker 2: six names to say again, these are the guys that
45:25
Speaker 2: were targeting, and we feel everybody feels good about this guy.
45:29
Speaker 2: And if you don't say so, and let's let's move
45:32
Speaker 2: on to the next one and maybe fill in later
45:35
Speaker 2: on at that spot. But but, but that was a
45:38
Speaker 2: good part of the process.
45:41
Speaker 1: After you picked a guy, how quickly did you know
45:44
Speaker 1: if he was going to be successful in the NFL.
45:48
Speaker 2: Well, I think we got a little bit of an indication,
45:50
Speaker 2: you know, when we would bring them in for the
45:52
Speaker 2: rookie can't put them on the field and start doing
45:55
Speaker 2: stuff with them, and you know, really when you can,
45:58
Speaker 2: you know, But like I said earlier, you know in
46:00
Speaker 2: the NFL, there's really no restriction on what you can't
46:04
Speaker 2: can and can't do. You really should know a lot
46:07
Speaker 2: about the player. Is much about kick me for the
46:10
Speaker 2: first three four rounds. You know. Now maybe down the
46:13
Speaker 2: line you don't know quite as much and you're going
46:16
Speaker 2: off the time the scouts spent on campus. If we
46:21
Speaker 2: did have a coach, go to the campus and then
46:23
Speaker 2: the videotape, And that was the thing in the process
46:26
Speaker 2: that I'd love to do too. I mean, I would
46:28
Speaker 2: try to watch through to three hundred of the players,
46:31
Speaker 2: many of the players that I could like. If I
46:33
Speaker 2: knew there was multiple players on a team, then I
46:36
Speaker 2: wanted to watch that that side of the ball versus whoever,
46:40
Speaker 2: So that I knew something about some of these guys
46:44
Speaker 2: that were maybe down the line in the sixth seventh
46:46
Speaker 2: round that way, so you know, you really, you know,
46:52
Speaker 2: you get to feel pretty pretty pretty close, you know,
46:55
Speaker 2: early on. And and the fact that that you know,
47:00
Speaker 2: we wanted to try and get those guys involved early,
47:03
Speaker 2: and that was another part of it. You know, let's
47:05
Speaker 2: do what they do. Let's make sure we're bringing a
47:08
Speaker 2: guy to Cincinnati that if he is a deep ball catcher,
47:13
Speaker 2: let's throw deep balls to him, you know, that's what
47:16
Speaker 2: he does. If he's an underneath guy, let's make sure
47:19
Speaker 2: we can have give him success and what he does,
47:22
Speaker 2: you know. And if he's a running back and has
47:24
Speaker 2: great hands, let's make sure we feature him that way.
47:28
Speaker 1: All right, a few more non draft questions and I'll
47:31
Speaker 1: let you go. You came to pay Corps this year
47:34
Speaker 1: to face the Bengals. You saw Joe Burrow in peak form.
47:37
Speaker 1: He tied his career high with five touchdown passes that day.
47:41
Speaker 1: What impressed you most seeing Joe Burrow in person.
47:45
Speaker 2: I think his ex accuracy number one. He doesn't get
47:49
Speaker 2: as much credit for how he can move in the pocket.
47:54
Speaker 2: And the fact that I think he took what the
47:58
Speaker 2: defense gave him. You know, we we we tried to.
48:02
Speaker 2: I don't think Higgins played that day, so we were
48:04
Speaker 2: able to just you know, kind of shift everything over
48:07
Speaker 2: to Chase and so the tight end killed.
48:10
Speaker 1: Us receiving yards in that game.
48:19
Speaker 2: So you know, so those things I think. You know,
48:23
Speaker 2: I was fortunate enough to be there the year before
48:25
Speaker 2: when when Chad went into the Ring of Honor, and
48:27
Speaker 2: that was the first time I had ever seen Joe
48:29
Speaker 2: Burrow up close on the on the field before the
48:32
Speaker 2: game when they were doing the pregame and how big
48:34
Speaker 2: he was. I didn't realize that. So he's an impressive player,
48:41
Speaker 2: you know. Uh. The receivers and the tight end were
48:44
Speaker 2: so impressive physically, uh that day as well. You know,
48:47
Speaker 2: I noticed, you know, I saw them that same day
48:50
Speaker 2: I was on the field and Green gave I mean,
48:53
Speaker 2: they're well put together football team on that side of
48:56
Speaker 2: the ball, and uh, and you know, I mean he
49:00
Speaker 2: is arguably you know that it's not the top but
49:04
Speaker 2: in the top two three quarterbacks in National Football League,
49:07
Speaker 2: and you know, he goes out and proves it day
49:09
Speaker 2: in and day out.
49:12
Speaker 1: Marvin, before Vegas, you were back in college football for
49:15
Speaker 1: a few years at Arizona State. What do you think
49:18
Speaker 1: of Bill Belichick becoming the head coach at North Carolina?
49:24
Speaker 2: I think number one. You know, obviously he gives an
49:26
Speaker 2: instant credibility to what they're doing. He's surrounded himself with
49:31
Speaker 2: his people who really do a great job at what
49:35
Speaker 2: they do. I know, coaches, administration and Mike Lombardi. So
49:41
Speaker 2: you know, he's put together a really good cast of
49:44
Speaker 2: characters to help them build the program. That way, the
49:49
Speaker 2: thing that I think the biggest struggle Bill is going
49:52
Speaker 2: to have, and I don't know if if the time
49:54
Speaker 2: constraints that you have in college football, which really makes
49:57
Speaker 2: no sense because now we're paying the they're paying these guys,
50:01
Speaker 2: and now you're limiting them so many hours, seventeen hours
50:04
Speaker 2: a week basically because the game comes for three And
50:07
Speaker 2: that's the biggest difference in college football. You know, the
50:11
Speaker 2: time we spent in the National Football League with these
50:13
Speaker 2: guys and then in college now you're ratcheted back to
50:18
Speaker 2: those hours and so I think that's going to be
50:21
Speaker 2: a big adjustment, the fact that the portal just opened again.
50:25
Speaker 2: So you know, the comings and goings of the guys
50:29
Speaker 2: who get their feelings hurt. That's the other difficult part,
50:33
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. And I'm sure there'll be
50:35
Speaker 2: Jettis and some guys and you know, we won't feel
50:38
Speaker 2: the love and so they'll be leaving that way. But
50:42
Speaker 2: that's part of the college football process these days.
50:46
Speaker 1: You are seven years younger than Pete Carroll. He just
50:50
Speaker 1: jumped back into the head coaching pool. Would you like
50:53
Speaker 1: to keep coaching in some capacity.
50:56
Speaker 2: No, I think I'm good. I'm done. You know, I'm bored,
51:03
Speaker 2: let me tell you that. But I don't know what
51:05
Speaker 2: I'll do. But it was great. I was glad that
51:12
Speaker 2: trying to help the people that have helped over the
51:14
Speaker 2: last few years. You know, I stay in touch with
51:16
Speaker 2: you know, with Kenny at Asu. I've been down there
51:19
Speaker 2: three four times. I'll be there tomorrow to look at
51:21
Speaker 2: their clinic. You know, I've been down at University of
51:24
Speaker 2: Arizona UNLB, you know. So you know a lot of
51:27
Speaker 2: these coaches that I know, you know, stay in touch with,
51:32
Speaker 2: But no, I think I'm done. You know the other
51:39
Speaker 2: side of it is my wife's put up with this
51:41
Speaker 2: stuff for over forty seven years.
51:45
Speaker 1: Yes she has, and.
51:46
Speaker 2: So you know, as she says, it's her time now.
51:50
Speaker 2: And so now I'm here for every service, repair man
51:53
Speaker 2: and everything and all those things that come with running
51:57
Speaker 2: the household and taking those offs for late and so
52:02
Speaker 2: that's what I do now.
52:04
Speaker 1: And being a great grandfather.
52:06
Speaker 2: Yes, and those my three dudes. You know we got today,
52:11
Speaker 2: We got basketball tonight, we had soccer when tuesday, we
52:14
Speaker 2: got golf school on Saturday. Grayson had piano and hip
52:19
Speaker 2: hop yesterday. You know. So they're busy guys, and to
52:24
Speaker 2: watch them grow up has been really cool.
52:27
Speaker 1: I probably should have phrased that differently, being an excellent
52:30
Speaker 1: grandfather as opposed to a great grandfather. That sounds like,
52:33
Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about another generation. Final question for you, Marvin.
52:39
Speaker 1: We've all heard the saying you want to leave something
52:43
Speaker 1: better than you found it. I think that's certainly true
52:47
Speaker 1: of your time in Cincinnati. You finished with a winning record,
52:50
Speaker 1: seven playoff trips, four division titles. What are you proudest
52:55
Speaker 1: of from your ten years the Bengals head coach.
52:58
Speaker 2: I think I'm probably proudest of the fact that watching
53:03
Speaker 2: the men grow and the father's productive husbands. I think that,
53:11
Speaker 2: to me is the coolest part. I've missed their calls,
53:15
Speaker 2: but they've did these zoom calls last couple of Sundays
53:19
Speaker 2: and there's twenty guys on there, and you know, it's
53:24
Speaker 2: really cool. And we didn't win a championship, but I
53:30
Speaker 2: which is why we do this, but to see these
53:33
Speaker 2: guys be productive adults after their careers, it's really cool.
53:38
Speaker 2: And I know that's what gives Mike the most satisfaction.
53:42
Speaker 2: You know the fact that Mike never wanted to see
53:45
Speaker 2: a player that couldn't be productive the rest of his life,
53:49
Speaker 2: and that's really cool. You know, Sam Hubbard just got
53:51
Speaker 2: married last weekend, and the whole Sam Hubbard story from
53:55
Speaker 2: when he's in high school with Moller and and I'm
53:58
Speaker 2: up there at House State with Earth and Sam calls
54:01
Speaker 2: Irvine and Irvan puts me on the phone with Sam
54:03
Speaker 2: Hubbard and says, hey, here's your next coach. And the
54:07
Speaker 2: fact that we were fortunate enough to draft Sam and
54:10
Speaker 2: you know so, and then watching what the impact he's
54:13
Speaker 2: having in in the Cincinnati community with his foundation is
54:16
Speaker 2: Mont property. That stuff's really cool, you know, to see
54:20
Speaker 2: what these guys have grown and done and being productive.
54:23
Speaker 2: You know Vontez is here in Arizona and seeing him
54:27
Speaker 2: coach junior high football, have a trucking business. You know
54:33
Speaker 2: Wallace Gilberry who we didn't draft but we brought into Cincinnati,
54:37
Speaker 2: ended his career, made us a better football team, and
54:40
Speaker 2: he has a very successful trucking business. So that stuff,
54:45
Speaker 2: I mean, that's this thing that that makes it cool.
54:49
Speaker 2: You know, you've mentioned Andrew, We know David College and
54:51
Speaker 2: all these guys and what the greatest things they did.
54:54
Speaker 2: But you know, I just think that they're being able
54:57
Speaker 2: to see them being productive. Aj you know Aj Green,
55:01
Speaker 2: the father in him, the husband. That's the coolest.
55:04
Speaker 1: Put Marvin, this has been a real treat. You've been
55:08
Speaker 1: very generous with your time. I can't thank you enough
55:11
Speaker 1: and I really really do appreciate it. Thank you so much.
55:14
Speaker 2: You welcome, Dan Good to do it my pleasure.
55:17
Speaker 1: Coming out early next week on the next edition of
55:19
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth podcast, draft predictions from Dave Lapham and me.
55:24
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