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At least 13 killed in Ukrainian drone strike deep into Russia · DEEP INSIGHT

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  Speaker 1: Ukraine has carried out one of the deadliest drone strikes
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  Speaker 1: on Russia so far, killing at least thirteen people and
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  Speaker 1: wounding dozens more. According to Russian officials, the attack targeted
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  Speaker 1: the city of Nizhnyukamsk in Tatarstan, around nine hundred kilometers
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  Speaker 1: east of Moscow. It's home to one of Russia's most
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  Speaker 1: advanced oil refineries. Russian officials say civilian and industrial facilities
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  Speaker 1: were hit in the attack, and these are some of
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  Speaker 1: the latest pictures we have verified of the strikes. Russian
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  Speaker 1: regions have also been targeted overnight by Ukrainian drones, and
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  Speaker 1: in Ukraine, officials in Harkiv say five people have been
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  Speaker 1: killed in a Russian artillery attack there. Well, let's speak
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  Speaker 1: now to our Russia editor Steve Rosenberg, who's in Moscow,
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  Speaker 1: and our Ukraine correspondent Dan Johnson in Kiev. Steve, I'll
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  Speaker 1: begin with you put this latest drone attack by Ukraine
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  Speaker 1: into Russia into contact for us, because it has been
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  Speaker 1: going after to oil facilities, oil refineries a lot in
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  Speaker 1: recent days and weeks, hasn't it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it fits into a pattern. You know,
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  Speaker 2: Russians are getting used to waking up to the news
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  Speaker 2: that Ukraine has carried out another long range drone strike
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  Speaker 2: deep into Russia. So no real sense of surprise here,
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  Speaker 2: although some shock about the death toll. Earlier today, the
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  Speaker 2: mayor of Nishnikompsk said that Ukrainian drones had attacked industrial
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  Speaker 2: and civilian targets in the city. He didn't specify what exactly,
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  Speaker 2: but we know that there is a big oil refinery
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  Speaker 2: in the city. There's also a big petrochemical plant. The
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  Speaker 2: one thing that Russian officials have provided details of is
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  Speaker 2: casualty figures. They say that at least thirteen people have
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  Speaker 2: been killed, which makes this, as you mentioned, one of
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  Speaker 2: the deadliest Ukrainian drone strikes on Russia so far.
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  Speaker 1: And Dan Walk, can you tell us about the Russian
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  Speaker 1: attack in Harkiv.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, that was reported overnight in a small village close
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  Speaker 3: to the front line in Ukraine's East Russian shelling which
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  Speaker 3: hit residential areas there. The regional prosecutor's office says that
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  Speaker 3: five people were killed and that there is an investigation
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  Speaker 3: ongoing to gather evidence there into a potential war crime.
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  Speaker 3: It shows you the continued threat that people in the
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  Speaker 3: east close to the front line are facing, but right
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  Speaker 3: across Ukraine as well. There was an air raid alert
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  Speaker 3: in the last half an hour here in Kiev, potentially
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  Speaker 3: in response to what Russia suffered last night at the
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  Speaker 3: hands of Ukraine's long range drones.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and before I go back to Steve Dan, what
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  Speaker 1: is the strategy the calculation here on Ukraine's part, Because
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  Speaker 1: it can't, as we know at the moment, defend itself
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  Speaker 1: from Russian ballistic missiles, but it does have the capability
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  Speaker 1: to carry out these grown attacks into Russia. So what
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  Speaker 1: message is it trying to send?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that long range drunk cap is something that Ukraine
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  Speaker 3: has invested heavily in improving and increasing, and the amount
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  Speaker 3: and distance of attacks have ramped up, especially over the
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  Speaker 3: last few weeks and months. Ukraine now has the capability
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  Speaker 3: to hit targets hundreds of miles into Russia and it
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  Speaker 3: is doing that repeatedly every night. There were hundreds of
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  Speaker 3: drones launched last night. The authorities here haven't commented on
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  Speaker 3: the civilian deaths that we're hearing from Russia today, but
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  Speaker 3: they have confirmed that they struck that oil refinery and
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  Speaker 3: that there was an explosion and a fire. The head
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  Speaker 3: of Ukraine's unarmed Unmanned Vehicles Unit, essentially the drone unit,
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  Speaker 3: said that they were still assessing the consequences of that hit,
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  Speaker 3: but they consistently denied targeting civilians and said that this
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  Speaker 3: was a target carried out with the aim of reducing
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  Speaker 3: Russia's military capability.
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  Speaker 1: And Steve, speaking of Russia's military capability, estimates of the
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  Speaker 1: number of Russian soldiers or soldiers fighting for Russia killed
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  Speaker 1: and injured are well over a million since the start
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  Speaker 1: of this war. We're also hearing from President Zelenski. He's
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  Speaker 1: quoted as saying that Russia is bringing in tens of
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  Speaker 1: thousands more troops from North Korea to fight for them.
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  Speaker 1: So what is the manpower situation in this war from
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  Speaker 1: Russia's perspective, Well.
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  Speaker 2: Russian officials say that there isn't a problem with manpower,
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  Speaker 2: that they're able to get people to fight in this war.
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  Speaker 2: The figures that you mentioned are featured outside the country.
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  Speaker 2: Inside Russia, no figures are mentioned about the number of dead.
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  Speaker 2: Having said that, you know, when you go from town
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  Speaker 2: to town, whether it's villages, towns, or cities, you can
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  Speaker 2: see in the cemeteries many people. Many recent graves of
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  Speaker 2: people who were fighting in Ukraine. So it's clear that
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  Speaker 2: a lot of people have been killed in this war.
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  Speaker 2: The other thing I'd say is, I was watching Russian
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  Speaker 2: state television this morning, how they were covering this attack
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  Speaker 2: in Nwseni Comps. It's quite interesting. It was mentioned briefly,
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  Speaker 2: but without any details about what was struck, and without
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  Speaker 2: any images, any video from the scene. It's like bad news,
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  Speaker 2: sort of reduced to news in brief. The bulletin was
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  Speaker 2: leading with Russian strikes on Ukraine.
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  Speaker 1: And I'll get a brief word from both of you
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  Speaker 1: if you would stay, beginning with you on the thinking
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  Speaker 1: in the Kremlin about this war and whether there is
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  Speaker 1: any suggestion at all that President Putin would be minded
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  Speaker 1: to get involved in talks.
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  Speaker 2: There's no sense at the moment of a change of
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  Speaker 2: approach from the Kremlin, no sense of compromise or a
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  Speaker 2: desire for compromise. I think Vladimir Putin seems to think
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  Speaker 2: that in this sort of war of attrition, Russia will
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  Speaker 2: eventually win. The mood of the people, mood in the
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  Speaker 2: street is slightly different. Most Russians that we speak to
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  Speaker 2: would like a negotiated settlements and for this to end.
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  Speaker 1: And a brief thought from you, Dan, if you would
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  Speaker 1: on the Ukrainian perspective on.
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  Speaker 3: That, Yeah, Ukraine feels it is on the front foot here.
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  Speaker 3: There is still that vulnerability with the lack of patriot interceptors,
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  Speaker 3: meaning that Russian missiles still pose a real threat right
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  Speaker 3: across Ukraine, but the conflict is essentially frozen in the east.
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  Speaker 3: Ukraine has had some success in pushing the Russians back there,
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  Speaker 3: and this strategy of increasingly taking the war into Russian
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  Speaker 3: territory is designed to hurt the Kremlin in terms of
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  Speaker 3: income damage Russia's economy, mean that there's less fuel and
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  Speaker 3: supplies getting to its military, but it's also designed to
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  Speaker 3: make the Russian people feel the impact of this war,
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  Speaker 3: to give them a taste of what Ukrainians have lived
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  Speaker 3: through for the past four and a half years. The
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  Speaker 3: calculation there is that they can do that without impacting
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  Speaker 3: too many civilians in terms of casualties and deaths, without
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  Speaker 3: losing essentially the moral high ground that they can say, look,
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  Speaker 3: we don't target civilians, that's what Russia does. We're just
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  Speaker 3: trying to fight, defend ourselves, have an impact, and get
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  Speaker 3: ourselves in a strong position so that if we do
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  Speaker 3: get to any sort of negotiations in terms of concluding
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  Speaker 3: this conflict, we can end it on our terms, not Russia's.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. Dan Johnson are Ukraine correspondent in Kiev and Steve
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  Speaker 1: Rosenberg are Russia editor in Moscow. Thank you both very
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  Speaker 1: much