Latest / Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps / "Is the UK Falling Apart?" with Dominic Frisby

Transcript

"Is the UK Falling Apart?" with Dominic Frisby · Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

• 0:00
  Get out of humans, welcome to the safe space for dangerous ideas, here's a dangerous
• 0:09
  question for you, is it racist to be concerned that there are now more immigrants in London
• 0:18
  than there are white English people?
• 0:22
  Has the United Kingdom reached some kind of a tipping point in how it thinks about its
• 0:25
  own national identity, and if so, how should it wrestle through those issues without
• 0:30
  rioting in the streets and in a civilized and democratic way?
• 0:35
  We've seen race riots in the UK, we've seen migrant detention hotels being set ablaze,
• 0:41
  we saw number 10 downing streets publicly condemning Elon Musk for using what it called
• 0:47
  dangerous and inflammatory language at a national protest, which was hosted by the far right
• 0:53
  agitator Tommy Robinson, and today's guest was actually there at that protest, bemoaning
• 1:00
  what had become of the England of old, what had happened to teacups and crumpets and
• 1:05
  umbrellas and bowler hats.
• 1:08
  Dominic Frisbee is an English comedian, a musician, an author, a philosopher about issues
• 1:13
  of social justice and diversity, about finance and economics and bitcoin, all things cultural
• 1:19
  really.
• 1:20
  The smash hit song, after he was accused of being far right for raising questions about
• 1:27
  Britain's immigration policy, entitled, We're All Far Right Now, Elon Musk himself retweeted
• 1:33
  it, it got tens of millions of views, it sounded a little portion of it, a bit like this.
• 1:38
  So I wanted to understand what the point of view of I suppose a libertarian activist
• 1:56
  is by sitting down with Dominic to wrestle with the issues of knife crime in London, immigration,
• 2:02
  race, conspiracy theories, freedom of speech, and why China is secretly stashing bazillions
• 2:08
  of dollars in gold, I hope you enjoy as much as I did, the one on our neat Dominic Frisbee.
• 2:18
  Should we just start with the sort of burning question that many non-briots have about Britain
• 2:22
  at the moment, which is whether the UK is far.
• 2:25
  I mean, I don't think it's whether it's to what extent.
• 2:31
  But this has become such a meme and an obsession, especially among the Marga crowd in the States
• 2:36
  among Trump and Elon, that now the left is saying, and you see, I see Brits say it often
• 2:41
  on the left, they're like, this is all just a bunch of nonsense that people, it's sort
• 2:45
  of become, the UK has become a whipping boy for everything that ails the Western world,
• 2:51
  but actually you walk through London and it's certainly fine, you know, what's the big
• 2:55
  deal?
• 2:56
  Oh no, there really is a lot of crime in London.
• 3:00
  And I mean, obviously you can walk through London and not be the victim of a crime.
• 3:05
  I've done it many times.
• 3:07
  But there really is a lot of crime in London.
• 3:10
  And you know, I grew up in London, I'm in my 50s now and it's incredible.
• 3:18
  You know, you don't notice change when it's gradual every day, but if I was to just like
• 3:22
  stop 30 years ago and then come back 30 years later and compare the two places, they're
• 3:27
  just so very different.
• 3:30
  It really is incredible.
• 3:31
  And but this thing of knife crime, like it really is a thing and it's just so like it's
• 3:40
  insane.
• 3:41
  Like even when people had knives in the civil war, you know, in the 17th century or something
• 3:46
  and people actually had walked around with big swords, you know, it wasn't like it is
• 3:51
  now.
• 3:52
  They didn't use them on the bus.
• 3:53
  No.
• 3:54
  And it's like these incredibly sharp knives and like somebody, there's a there's a fried
• 4:01
  chicken shop about maybe 70 or 80 yards from my house.
• 4:06
  There's a fried chicken shop 70 or 80 yards from any point in the United Kingdom.
• 4:09
  Well, exactly.
• 4:10
  You know, we have in the same way that other nations have Irish pubs and Chinese restaurants,
• 4:15
  we have fried chicken shops.
• 4:17
  And but fried chicken shops are often the scene of the crime.
• 4:22
  Right.
• 4:23
  So some guy was I mean, it's a very good is a delicious delicacy and I can understand
• 4:27
  the way people would knife each other to get more fried chicken, but chicken is it could
• 4:31
  be the source, the problem that could be eradicated.
• 4:34
  You don't have a problem of knives crime or immigration, you have a problem of fried chicken
• 4:38
  dominant.
• 4:39
  We have an epidemic of deep fried fried in industrial oil chicken.
• 4:44
  But yeah, there was a guy who was stabbed in the fried chicken shop at the end of my
• 4:48
  road.
• 4:49
  And then or actually he was stabbed coming out of it and he made it across the road
• 4:53
  to the bus stop.
• 4:55
  And that's where you know, he shuffled off his mortal coil on the bus stop and and where
• 5:06
  you walk along the pavement where the bus stop is the road kind of narrow.
• 5:09
  So you can only kind of walk one abreast and he died.
• 5:13
  And so there was blood all over the pavement and the council just like obviously got rid
• 5:18
  of his body, but they just put some sand on the pavement, whether the dignity.
• 5:24
  So there was this sort of congealed sand and blood and it was just there for a week.
• 5:28
  And you either had the so you know, kids with their moms and stuff for the bus stop would
• 5:33
  like congeal blood.
• 5:35
  If you look at me, it's a raspberry snow cone.
• 5:38
  Yeah.
• 5:39
  And you would have to walk, you know, in order not to walk in the blood, you would have
• 5:44
  to walk out into the road and then risk getting run over and then of course adding to the
• 5:49
  blood.
• 5:50
  Yes.
• 5:51
  Then there'd be more sand.
• 5:52
  Yeah.
• 5:53
  So that's when the whole thing became really apparent and it and you know, I talked to
• 5:56
  my kids who go to sort of parties and have grown up and it's just so normal to them.
• 6:02
  And you just think, how is this possible?
• 6:05
  Where did it come from?
• 6:06
  I mean, there were a few things going on in that anecdote out there.
• 6:09
  There's the crime itself and then there's the kind of industrial indignity and carelessness.
• 6:14
  Like it's almost like when people were being attacked, we switchblade knives in the 1920s
• 6:20
  by gangsters in East London.
• 6:22
  There was a certain glamour, a certain debonairness to it.
• 6:26
  And the idea of being like knifeed in a chicken shop and dragged yourself to a bus stop and then
• 6:30
  having the local council workers pour sand on your entrails.
• 6:34
  It's not, it's not, nobody wants a TV show about this.
• 6:38
  It's not swashbuckling exactly.
• 6:40
  It's how the nation is fallen.
• 6:42
  And like I remember in the eight, I used to do a lot of voiceovers, but I'm sort of suffering
• 6:47
  slightly from wrong age, wrong age, wrong sexual color in that regard.
• 6:51
  But I used to do a lot and I narrated a lot of programs about football, who legalism
• 6:56
  and this was in the 80s and 90s.
• 6:59
  And football hoodigans, the big thing was they used to carry Stanley knives.
• 7:03
  You do not want to be by Stanley knives?
• 7:05
  It's a box cutter in American parlance.
• 7:07
  Yes, there you go.
• 7:09
  And this was like the great crime that all this sort of glamourized violence was committed
• 7:15
  with Stanley knives.
• 7:17
  And they just look pathetic compared to the knives of today, which are these, you know,
• 7:22
  proper, I don't know where they get them.
• 7:24
  It would be like an American soldier's knife specially designed for, you know, getting
• 7:31
  through the forests of Vietnam while defending yourself against martial artists or something.
• 7:37
  You know, these incredible, multiple, where it's just extraordinary, what's what's, where
• 7:42
  do they get the knives?
• 7:43
  That's what I don't understand.
• 7:44
  Well, probably on the dark web using Bitcoin, which you're such a fan of, don't they?
• 7:48
  Well, it's probably the, you know, I wondered where the middle-aged white man would end up
• 7:53
  being responsible for it all, but there we are.
• 7:55
  There you are.
• 7:56
  That's why.
• 7:57
  That's why.
• 7:58
  What voiceover?
• 7:59
  So that's, I'm interested in your voiceover career and because that's also where I started
• 8:05
  out before I went into radio, was turning out your voiceover.
• 8:08
  You're actually talking right now, Dominic, not to lauded over you to the official voice
• 8:14
  of Oli, the Cookabara mascot of the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games when I was in my teens.
• 8:20
  I got that gig.
• 8:21
  Oh, my God.
• 8:22
  I'll let you, I'll let you sit on that for a moment.
• 8:24
  I'll let you sit on that and I will raise you.
• 8:27
  Yeah.
• 8:28
  I will raise you the voice of Harpick, Harpick for a new Lou every time.
• 8:38
  Get out.
• 8:40
  So for people, for Americans, Harpick is like one of those things that you'd dangle over
• 8:43
  the edge of the bleach system, always the bleach you spray around the edge, the blue,
• 8:49
  the blue goo that will, wow.
• 8:52
  Okay.
• 8:53
  You win this round, Frisbee, you win this round.
• 8:56
  I don't know.
• 8:57
  That was my trump card.
• 8:58
  I was like, did you play that three in the horse, expecting to play straight up the top?
• 9:02
  So is the problem essentially a law and order problem in which case if it's a law and order
• 9:07
  because the critique of the United Kingdom, the sort of UK has fallen argument seems to
• 9:12
  be a much deeper one about, I don't know, socialism, public spending, immigration, the
• 9:18
  integration of Muslim communities into the country that like, I don't know, the boats
• 9:23
  coming across from France, like there's a whole kind of Brexit.
• 9:27
  There's this whole bag of big meta complaints that seem quite intractable, but it strikes
• 9:34
  me that people wandering around the streets with sharp knives stabbing other people should
• 9:39
  be a pretty easy like if you brought in Rudy Giuliani from the 1990s, presumably someone
• 9:45
  could just do something about that bit, couldn't they?
• 9:48
  Well, it's interesting you say that because that makes you far right, like wanting this
• 9:57
  to be properly policed is a, is a like that just labels you far right, but you, you, you
• 10:04
  do, you do.
• 10:05
  But by whom?
• 10:06
  I mean, obviously there is a stupid people on Twitter who are going to shout at you and
• 10:09
  say that, you know, the unhoused have a right to stab people too.
• 10:15
  There, there be a large majority of Brits, presumably on both sides of the political aisle,
• 10:19
  who would be like, yeah, okay, let's fix up the law and order stuff, regardless of what
• 10:22
  we did might disagree about on immigration or whatever.
• 10:26
  All the things you cited before, you know, are contributing to the sort of the decline
• 10:34
  of the UK.
• 10:36
  And there is a, there is a whole other argument that, you know, we have better technology
• 10:42
  and better this and better that and our lives have never been so good.
• 10:45
  So you've got these sort of two things going on concurrently.
• 10:50
  But the problem with knife crime and is that it's probably, I mean, you know, I'm going
• 10:58
  to be called racist for saying this, but it, and it's, it's largely black kids doing
• 11:05
  it.
• 11:06
  Racist.
• 11:07
  There you go.
• 11:09
  There are, there are white kids, there are, it's kind of spread to everyone, but it,
• 11:13
  I think it's a sort of, and it's glamorized in all the music and so on.
• 11:17
  But if you target black kids, then with your stop and search and all that, black people
• 11:23
  complain that they're unreasonably targeted by the police and they probably are.
• 11:27
  And so then you go one stage further and then what you have is, it's very difficult to
• 11:31
  police a multicultural society.
• 11:34
  It's much easier to police a monocultural society.
• 11:38
  Because as soon as light, for example, a white guy stops a black guy, it becomes a color
• 11:41
  issue rather than a law issue.
• 11:44
  It should be just a simple law issue, but it becomes a color issue and there are loads
• 11:47
  of black guys like I used to drive a Ford Capri, which was a sort of, you tacky coming
• 11:54
  up in the world.
• 11:55
  Yeah.
• 11:56
  This is when I was much younger and it was literally every other time I drove that car,
• 12:01
  I got pulled over by the police and it was just exhausting and it was, it was just,
• 12:06
  it just drove you man.
• 12:07
  So in the end, I got rid of the car, actually I didn't crash it, but the same day if you
• 12:13
  did get rid of the car, I just started willingly.
• 12:15
  But yeah, it wasn't a choice, but anyway, the car was gotten rid of and I just, in whatever
• 12:22
  car I had next, I just never, I think I had a Mazda or something, you know, I just never
• 12:27
  got pulled over ever.
• 12:28
  And it's like, oh wow, you can't actually drive a journey without being pulled over.
• 12:32
  And so if you're a black guy who is just constantly being pulled over by the police, it is just,
• 12:37
  it drives you insane.
• 12:39
  So I get, I get all sides of it.
• 12:42
  And you do think that, you know, a common complaint is that police resources are being
• 12:47
  wasted, policing online, the online hate bill or whatever it's called, when they should
• 12:53
  be doing police knife crime.
• 12:56
  And you do think that this could be sold, I think a lot of knife criminals just get off.
• 13:01
  So for example, my daughter and son were at a New Year's Eve party and some kids tried
• 13:09
  to break into the party or something and then there was another kid who was at the party
• 13:12
  who got a knife from the kitchen and tried to defend the people trying to get into the
• 13:17
  party.
• 13:18
  This is like 16 year olds.
• 13:19
  This is how insane it is.
• 13:21
  And ended up, I think, someone nine times, how do you stab someone nine times?
• 13:28
  And anyway, the person who was stabbed somehow miraculously didn't die and didn't press
• 13:35
  charges.
• 13:36
  So the kid who did the crime never went to jail because the victim didn't press charges.
• 13:44
  I don't know why you why does the victim need to press charges?
• 13:47
  Like I don't quite get that.
• 13:49
  Like I don't know.
• 13:50
  Yeah.
• 13:51
  Like if your person's killed, the victim's family doesn't get to say, don't worry about it.
• 13:55
  Like murder is the crime.
• 13:56
  So the stabbing is the crime regardless of whether or not the victim is cool with it.
• 14:01
  I don't know.
• 14:02
  I don't know because I heard the story from my kids who were 16, 16, 17 at the time.
• 14:07
  Highly unreliable narrative.
• 14:08
  You know, there's holes in the story.
• 14:12
  But in any case, it's not uncommon for you see the sentences some of these guys get and
• 14:17
  you think they're so short, you just think, well, it's just not a big enough deterrent
• 14:23
  right?
• 14:24
  Right.
• 14:25
  So the crime continues.
• 14:26
  And there's probably also a narrative just to bring it back to left and right and race
• 14:29
  about community policing or what these communities actually need is more officers.
• 14:37
  Yeah.
• 14:38
  I think police officers or support in the community or they need more youth, I don't
• 14:42
  know, community groups or they need to, you know, better ways of spending their time
• 14:45
  or they need better education or they need to hunt or something.
• 14:49
  You might have changed now, but I used to live in Brixton, which was, I live in Brockly
• 14:53
  now, which is, you know, pretty mixed area, but Brixton was a very black area in the
• 14:57
  nineties and I used to live there then.
• 14:59
  And if you were a black guy and you became a police officer, you're often seen as a traitor.
• 15:06
  So you've got that issue as well, you know, on, you know, they had that expression choc ice,
• 15:11
  which would be a black on the outside, white on the inside.
• 15:13
  Right.
• 15:14
  It's, you know, there's just so many, it's just really difficult policing a multicultural
• 15:20
  society.
• 15:21
  It's much harder, yeah, but it was a multi, I'm not sure I, I mean, I'm sure it is more
• 15:26
  difficult, but it's only more, yeah, it's more difficult when you want to police a multicultural
• 15:31
  society and also be colorblind and sensitive to racial discrimination, right?
• 15:38
  It wouldn't be if the cops had their hands unshackled and were able to pursue ethnic groups
• 15:44
  on the basis of the probability that they're going to be guilty of crimes.
• 15:47
  And there are multi ethnic societies.
• 15:48
  I don't think Australia has, Australia is very multi, I think it doesn't have a
• 15:52
  tell of knife crime.
• 15:54
  Yeah.
• 15:55
  And you know, there are cities in the states, I'm thinking of, you know, huge Hispanic
• 16:00
  populations in Texas and stuff, which don't have huge crime.
• 16:03
  So I think I think I think I was a thing in the state.
• 16:06
  Well, no, I was also thinking that just, yeah, and all of those examples that you're
• 16:10
  talking about, the guy would have been shot instead of, uh, yeah, stamped.
• 16:14
  Yeah, I, I don't know the answer and, um, but I do know it's a massive problem and whatever
• 16:21
  we're doing now is not working on the question of metropolitan police being distracted
• 16:26
  by it because they're hunting for people online who've said mean things about migrants
• 16:30
  or something.
• 16:31
  To what extent is that a problem?
• 16:33
  And do you fear it at all given that you are perceived as being a polemicist who
• 16:37
  made rights offensive songs about things like in a climate where we see stories about
• 16:43
  Graham Linner and being arrested at the airport for being mean to trans people or, you
• 16:47
  know, comedians being arrested for making their pug dogs do Nazi salutes.
• 16:53
  Or, you know, I mean, it just seems, we've got the same problem in Australia, but to my,
• 16:57
  having lived in the states for a long time and given that I swim in fairly libertarianish
• 17:02
  free-speechy circles in the states, it seems absolutely bonkers.
• 17:06
  Yeah, the, I mean, it is a problem.
• 17:09
  And I read the stats and we have by far on the way the highest numbers of people being
• 17:14
  arrested for online stuff in the world.
• 17:16
  And it's such a total waste of resources.
• 17:19
  It's also so stupid like why would you send five police officers to arrest Graham Linner
• 17:23
  at an airport because you know that's going to backfire on you from a PR point of view.
• 17:30
  And, you know, the police looks stupid, whoever made the law looks stupid.
• 17:33
  I mean, it's just a terrible PR exercise, but, you know, maybe this is a journey we have
• 17:38
  to go through, but I think technically Graham, you know, we have this online hate crime act.
• 17:45
  And I think technically Graham was breaking the law.
• 17:50
  But that means that pretty much everyone, anybody says online any day is breaking the law.
• 17:57
  And for people who aren't as online as we are, Graham Linner and comedy writer who has
• 18:01
  become, I would say, somewhat deranged by his fixation on the trans issue.
• 18:07
  I certainly don't think he should be prosecuted for it.
• 18:09
  He's very, I mean, he would be what trans activists would call a turf.
• 18:13
  Someone who, you know, has been shouting from the rooftops for years about the importance
• 18:18
  of women having their own spaces, biological women, free from trans women.
• 18:23
  And when you say that he's in contravention of this law, what does the law say?
• 18:27
  And what would he have said that would have contravened it?
• 18:31
  Do you know what?
• 18:32
  I don't even know what the law says.
• 18:35
  Call yourself an economist.
• 18:37
  Call yourself a satirical musician.
• 18:39
  I don't know.
• 18:41
  I just know you're not allowed to say herty things.
• 18:43
  And I know, right?
• 18:44
  Yeah, the online hate crime.
• 18:45
  I mean, I can Google it, but I think it's a good, no, no, no, I mean, I guess
• 18:51
  I was in breach of it when you say that it's stupid because the police should know
• 18:56
  that they are going to cop some flack for it.
• 18:58
  Yeah.
• 18:59
  I'm not sure that they do cop flack from the people who they care about, which is the
• 19:04
  people who are convinced that they're on the right side of history and are very worried
• 19:08
  about social unrest and, you know, race riots and hatred and the bashings of trans people
• 19:17
  or whatever.
• 19:18
  And they think that the solution is simple, which is that we should just be nice to each
• 19:21
  other.
• 19:22
  And so anyone who says things that are obviously stirring people up or contravening
• 19:26
  what we all know to be a right way of thinking should be excluded from the public sphere.
• 19:31
  I think they earnestly believe that they're on the right side of this issue.
• 19:35
  I don't think they think that they're sensorious, right?
• 19:37
  Or they're sure they think they're on the right side.
• 19:39
  And one of the problems with dealing with people will call it the left, but that that
• 19:43
  worldview is that if you contradict them, that is in itself spreading hate and that is
• 19:51
  divisive.
• 19:53
  So to have a different opinion is blasphemous.
• 19:58
  And the problem is a lot of people do have a different opinion.
• 20:02
  But yeah, it's, I mean, there are so many problems.
• 20:10
  For me, one of the biggest problems is a lack of coherent philosophy that everyone can
• 20:16
  agree on is the right way to live.
• 20:19
  And if you could have that coherent philosophy, everyone agrees that this, for example, free
• 20:26
  markets are good or everyone agrees that we need a benevolent welfare state or everyone
• 20:32
  agrees.
• 20:33
  If you can find things that, and then it will be the government's duty to uphold that
• 20:39
  and live by that philosophy, then you would have first principles to fall back on.
• 20:44
  But we just have successive governments that have no coherent ideology, that have no
• 20:51
  first principles, that they aren't libertarian or they aren't socialist or they aren't even
• 20:57
  social democrats, that they're technocrats bureaucrat, each issue that arises is dealt
• 21:04
  with on the merits of that issue without coming back to first principles.
• 21:09
  And you know, with mass immigration, which by the way, is inevitable in the world and
• 21:14
  which we live, there are eight billion people in the world, seven billion, this is the
• 21:19
  thing that you never hear in the immigration arguments that is just the sheer mathematics
• 21:24
  of it, eight billion people in the world, seven billion, on less than $40 a day.
• 21:31
  And so that's seven billion people and almost, I think now more people have one of these,
• 21:37
  there's a smartphone that have a toilet around the world.
• 21:41
  And I mean, it's an incredible fact when you think about it.
• 21:45
  So there's seven billion people, on less than $40 a day, all of whom have a smartphone,
• 21:50
  all of whom, and if there's one thing smartphones do, it's give you FOMO.
• 21:56
  You know, you look at Instagram or you look at whatever it is Facebook doesn't matter,
• 22:01
  Google even.
• 22:02
  And you just see better lives, you know, you just, and you're just sharing an ordinary
• 22:06
  clip of you walking down the street in London to some guy in Sub-Saharan Africa.
• 22:12
  All he sees is these beautiful buildings in London, he doesn't even need to see what's
• 22:15
  going on and who thinks, well, that's better than, you know, where I am.
• 22:20
  So you have everyone with a smartphone, which is creating mass FOMO around the world about
• 22:27
  better lives to be had elsewhere.
• 22:30
  You then have better transport than we've ever had in history.
• 22:33
  So you can almost fly around the world in 24 hours now and never mind 80 days.
• 22:39
  And you know, better cars, better planes, better trains, better everything.
• 22:43
  So you have the means to get somewhere else.
• 22:46
  You're then, you have, because of the smartphone, you know, you can be put in contact with
• 22:51
  the people trafficker quite easily and you pay your money and you get traffic and you
• 22:55
  get, you know, a free, a lovely dinghy ride to wherever it is you want to go.
• 22:59
  And so you just have all these means.
• 23:02
  And so the mass migration of people is just inevitable.
• 23:05
  And, you know, you're protected from it in Australia because you've got these huge oceans.
• 23:11
  And so, well, I'm not sure that's true.
• 23:13
  No, I'm not sure that's true.
• 23:14
  That's the reason.
• 23:15
  I don't think that's the reason.
• 23:16
  Australia has, Australia has made a fast impact for decades, which is to deploy an
• 23:22
  extremely brutal, possibly illegal under international law, but very popular policy of that anybody
• 23:30
  who are right, it's not actually hard to get to Australia by boat, to get to the north
• 23:33
  of Australia by boat from Indonesia.
• 23:34
  And for years, there was a people smuggling trade from sort of Central Asia and South
• 23:41
  Asia through Indonesia into Australia.
• 23:44
  And the government just decided that they were going to intercept every boat and make
• 23:48
  a pledge that anyone who arrived illegally was never going to set foot in Australia.
• 23:52
  And we bribed South Pacific Island nations to take them and put them in open air concentration
• 23:56
  camps.
• 23:57
  And then we bribed other countries to take them.
• 23:59
  And we have a very orderly and very generous immigration policy, which works quite well
• 24:05
  because the buy-in that you need from, I mean, there was, I think there was an insight
• 24:09
  by Australia's first immigration minister who I think was Arthur Caldwell after World
• 24:13
  War II when the post was created, who told the prime minister that we need a lot more
• 24:20
  labor, we're going to need lots of migrants.
• 24:22
  And the Australian people are generous and will accept lots of migrants if they believe
• 24:26
  they have control over who's coming in.
• 24:29
  And that's what has made Australia, I think, one of the most successful immigrant countries
• 24:33
  with some of the least tensions because there is a sense that we will be ruthless at the
• 24:36
  border and then generous on policy.
• 24:39
  The UK could do it and could have done it.
• 24:42
  There's no reason why both should be able to cross the channel.
• 24:45
  I stand corrected on that front.
• 24:47
  And I knew about the ruthless Australian policies, but I didn't realise they were quite
• 24:54
  ruthless.
• 24:55
  Even so, even with all that said, the channel is easier to cross than the oceans to Australia.
• 25:01
  Yeah, but it's not beyond the capacity of her majesty's navy to policy.
• 25:05
  I agree.
• 25:07
  So you can focus your immigration policy at the airport.
• 25:11
  And it's maybe it's a tad easier to to to organise, but even so that it's, as you say,
• 25:17
  it's not beyond our capabilities to organise it, but because of this pathological fear of
• 25:24
  being labeled racist, we haven't even been able to have this conversation about immigration.
• 25:29
  If you said to, what is the right number of immigrants to have every year?
• 25:33
  If you, you know, every government is successively pledged to get the number down and the numbers
• 25:37
  increased.
• 25:38
  And I think we're on, we're on hundreds of thousands a year.
• 25:40
  I think, I think last year, net immigration was, I want to say 600,000 something like that.
• 25:50
  But total immigration was above a million.
• 25:53
  So 600,000 left and it's a foreigner, a high number given that we're only a pot country
• 25:59
  of 60 million.
• 26:01
  This is all to do with, you know, the decline of Christianity, not knowing who we are,
• 26:07
  not knowing what our national identity is, having a confused national identity, mixed messages,
• 26:13
  the fall of one culture without anything coherent, rising to replace it.
• 26:19
  The whole sort of diversity, inclusion, narrative, it is just full of holes.
• 26:25
  And we've tried to live by that to show that we're actually great guys.
• 26:29
  But, you know, it's been exposed for having, what about, what are the holes, Dominic?
• 26:36
  Well, what's happened into the, to the, to the whole of Western Europe?
• 26:40
  And, and, you know, we've sacrificed ourselves and, and our, and to an extent, our children.
• 26:48
  At the altar of, at the altar of, of this new religion, and,
• 26:53
  and it, what does that mean in practice? Because a lot of people will be watching this or listening
• 26:59
  to this and thinking, I went to Paris a couple of years ago. It was lovely. We, you know,
• 27:03
  wandered around. It's still pretty. It's still quaint. I go to London a lot. I love it. It's
• 27:07
  great city. These are thriving, bustling, multicultural, multi-ethnic cities, which are probably
• 27:13
  richer for being diverse. But you're talking about an underbelly or a double edged sword there.
• 27:21
  But paint a picture for what that means. Well, so white English has been a minority in London
• 27:29
  for more than 25 years now. And if you said 25, 50 years ago, in 25 years time white
• 27:35
  English people will be a minority in London. People are going, what? And white English is now
• 27:42
  a minority in pretty much every major city in England and even in Scotland. That's, it's going
• 27:49
  that way. And I look at the demography of primary schools, which would be the schools you go to
• 27:58
  from the age of four to 11. And because what the demography of the problem with so many of these
• 28:04
  numbers is that you don't know what the truth is. You know, how do you report accurately on
• 28:09
  numbers of illegal migration? If they're, you don't know they're here. If they're here illegally,
• 28:14
  it's very hard to get the actual numbers. And then you have the census, but people aren't
• 28:20
  honest to the census because people think the census is something else and you have double counting
• 28:24
  and census is just aren't that accurate. But everybody sends their kids to school or pretty much
• 28:30
  everybody. So if you look at the demography of primary schools, you get a very clear idea of
• 28:36
  what the demographics of the country will be in, in, you know, half a generation. And
• 28:45
  the demographics of primary schools are extremely telling in that this isn't just in cities,
• 28:51
  but across the country, even in remote rural areas, white English will be a minority by the early
• 28:57
  2030s across the whole country. But what's the problem with that? I mean, that isn't a racist
• 29:04
  objection. You know what I mean? Like, I can sort of understand the objection to the issue is
• 29:09
  that we've totally changed the demography of our country. Now, you can say that's good. Or you
• 29:16
  can say that's bad. You can say diverse. You better will all have, you know, we've all got Indian
• 29:20
  food and Italian food. So it's great. But, you know, if you, the rest of the world looks at,
• 29:26
  you know, what an Englishman is and what the rest of the world's perception of who an Englishman
• 29:31
  is and what what is actually an Englishman are two quite different things. The rest of the world's
• 29:36
  perception of what an Englishman is probably dates back 20 years and, you know, the rest of the world
• 29:40
  probably thinks about Hugh Grant or James Bond or something like that. Whereas the nature of what
• 29:45
  an Englishman is has completely changed. Now, it's like it, it's like a, I wouldn't call it peaceful,
• 29:52
  it's not quite the right word, but we haven't been invaded in the way that, you know, the Nazis
• 29:56
  invaded other countries during World War II or, or the, you know, William the Conqueror, but,
• 30:01
  but the indigenous people have been replaced are being replaced. The other problem is, because
• 30:08
  of our ludicrously expensive housing, local people don't reproduce at high rates. This is across
• 30:15
  the whole of Western Europe. And the UK is not, I think Italy is the worst. And in Italy,
• 30:24
  the replacement rate is less than two, which is incredible, the Catholic country.
• 30:29
  Oh, it's well less than, it's well less than two everywhere, isn't it? I mean, with you
• 30:34
  exclude immigration, I think it's down to like 1.2 or something per couple in Italy,
• 30:39
  which is catastrophically low. It is, well, you use the word, why is it
• 30:44
  catastrophic? Why is it bad if you place it with people from another country?
• 30:48
  It's, it's kind of, it's catastrophic because there aren't going to be any Italians left.
• 30:51
  Well, it is. So if you're an Italian, no, but I think there's a, but there's a risk here,
• 30:57
  because there's a strong version. It's not just the, the, the, just to finish, and then I'll let
• 31:03
  you go. One is the, the, the, there won't be any English left in the way that they were known
• 31:12
  that you could perceive an English person to once be because we're replacing ourselves. We're,
• 31:18
  we're reproducing it barely the rate of survival, but immigrant people reproducing much,
• 31:24
  much higher rates. They have much, much bigger families. And so we're just changing our culture.
• 31:30
  Maybe that's good. Maybe it's normal. Maybe it's just the natural way of things.
• 31:33
  But it comes back to that original point I said is that we have to respect the fact that
• 31:38
  there are a lot more, you know, there's seven billion in people in the world, only 60 million in
• 31:42
  the UK or 65 million. We can't have everyone. Western Europe can't take everyone. It's just
• 31:48
  mathematically impossible, but everyone wants to come to Western Europe while we have a benevolent
• 31:52
  state and it's easy to get there and they can get welfare and so on and so forth. So we have to
• 31:58
  have an honest conversation about what is the right number? And because otherwise,
• 32:04
  you know, I wrote a song once it's gone, there's not a chance it's ever coming back. And that really
• 32:11
  is the case. Aren't we already there? I mean, the the Englishman with the cup of tea and the
• 32:16
  bowler hat and the umbrella is not, you know, that's not going to be the norm henceforth. But the
• 32:22
  question is, is that necessarily a bad thing in a big complicated globalised multi-ethnic world?
• 32:29
  Like, I think the strong version of the case for the problem of immigration in Western Europe and
• 32:35
  the UK would be that there's a failure to integrate certain communities, particularly ones that
• 32:42
  are religiously conservative and might be quite sexist and homophobic and have ideals that are
• 32:47
  quite antithetical to liberalism. And the ghettoisation of some of those communities in the
• 32:53
  Bollier of Paris or, you know, in pick your sort of decrepit third-tier English city
• 33:01
  with its with its woes is, you know, a problem that has been allowed to run out of control.
• 33:09
  There's also I think a legitimate question of the people will never consulted about this. This
• 33:14
  has just been a bipartisan thing that has just sort of kept happening and both parties have just
• 33:18
  kind of agreed that they should keep doing it. And as you say, to raise the question of whether
• 33:22
  it's a problem has been to code you as racist. But it does sound a little bit racist to fret too
• 33:28
  much about the, like you said, we'll lose our culture. And do you have to lose your culture just
• 33:33
  because people have darker skin? Like, I mean, I can imagine, do you, what if they take on,
• 33:41
  yeah, but what if they absorb the ethos of Britain? Well, they don't. But I could. Many do.
• 33:47
  Some do. But I mean, many do. Like Australia, you know, Australians in the Australians in the
• 33:54
  Australians in the 50s were all, you know, blonde head and blue-eyed surfers. And then we imported
• 34:01
  lots of Italians and Greeks and we became a bit swarthyar. And now we've got lots of Asians and
• 34:05
  it's a variation country. We're still not very African, but we could be and everyone kind of bangs
• 34:11
  around and gets on. Now, there are problems, I think, with culture. Like, it's extremely important
• 34:17
  to figure out how to integrate communities that have been traumatized in foreign civil wars or
• 34:23
  who are deeply conservative or religiously delusional with their islamists or jihadists or something.
• 34:29
  And you don't want those people coming in. But it doesn't strike me as obvious that just because
• 34:33
  a place looks like the population has slightly differently shaped faces and different colored
• 34:39
  skins that that necessarily means the end of what we love about the players. I don't agree.
• 34:47
  I think you different people, different culture. Get a human as well if you've listened to this much
• 34:52
  of the episode then you must enjoy it presumably unless you're just losing from massacistic
• 34:57
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