Latest / NO FILTER / D4vd named suspect in missing teen_s death_ Cruise ship death ruled homicide after teen found slain(MP3_160K)

Transcript

D4vd named suspect in missing teen_s death_ Cruise ship death ruled homicide after teen found slain(MP3_160K) · NO FILTER

0:11
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Sidebar presented by True Crime News,
0:14
Speaker 1: taking you inside the courtrooms of high profile and notorious
0:16
Speaker 1: cases from across the country. I'm your host, Joshua Ritter.
0:19
Speaker 1: I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in Los Angeles and
0:22
Speaker 1: previously an LA County prosecutor for over a decade. You
0:25
Speaker 1: can find me on all social platforms at Joshua Ritter
0:29
Speaker 1: EESQ or at Joshua ridd dot com. We are recording
0:32
Speaker 1: this on Tuesday, November twenty fifth, twenty twenty five. In
0:36
Speaker 1: this week's episode, the young woman at the center of
0:39
Speaker 1: the infamous slender Man stabbings escapes from her group home.
0:43
Speaker 1: Plus a mysterious cruise ship death becomes a homicide as
0:47
Speaker 1: investigators focus on the victim's stepbrother, but first, a famous
0:51
Speaker 1: singer officially named as a suspect in a missing teen's death. Today,
0:56
Speaker 1: we are joined by Matt Timpanic, an attorney and legal
0:59
Speaker 1: analyst you can catch on YouTube and many other media outlets. Matt,
1:03
Speaker 1: Welcome and Happy Thanksgiving.
1:06
Speaker 2: Happy Thanksgiving, josh thanks for having me on again.
1:09
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I've been looking forward to this. I know that
1:12
Speaker 1: you follow these cases closely, so I'm curious to hear
1:15
Speaker 1: your insights. A couple of them have some bizarre sort
1:18
Speaker 1: of beginnings of investigation. We don't know quite sure yet
1:22
Speaker 1: what's going on, so I'm curious to see what you
1:24
Speaker 1: think might be taking place behind the scenes. The first
1:27
Speaker 1: play case takes us out to Los Angeles, my neck
1:30
Speaker 1: of the woods, where police have now named a famous
1:33
Speaker 1: singer as an official suspect in the ongoing murder investigation
1:36
Speaker 1: of a girl whose dismembered body was found in the
1:39
Speaker 1: singer's trunk. Months after the recovery of fourteen year old
1:43
Speaker 1: Celeste Revas Hernandez, speculation surrounded the demise of the missing team.
1:48
Speaker 1: Now authorities are naming singer David, whose real name is
1:52
Speaker 1: David Anthony Burke, as an official suspect, claiming that Burke
1:57
Speaker 1: has quote not been cooperative with detectives. However, no charges
2:01
Speaker 1: have yet been filed in the case, and officials remained
2:04
Speaker 1: tight lipped with details, further fueling online theories surrounding the death. Recently,
2:09
Speaker 1: online sleuth's claimed that Hernandez's body was found frozen before
2:15
Speaker 1: it was discarded in the vehicle, an idea that police
2:17
Speaker 1: have since dismissed. To the high profile nature of the suspect.
2:22
Speaker 1: Public interest has only grown, but medical examiners received a
2:26
Speaker 1: security hold on the case, meaning no ruling on the
2:29
Speaker 1: cause or manner of death will be posted publicly until
2:32
Speaker 1: further notice. Meanwhile, those waiting for answers will have to
2:36
Speaker 1: stand by until a potential arrest or indictment brings forward
2:39
Speaker 1: official details. This is bizarre, right, I mean a lot
2:44
Speaker 1: going on here. It seemed like immediately they would believe
2:48
Speaker 1: that foul play was involved in her death, but it's
2:51
Speaker 1: taken them months to get to the point where they're
2:54
Speaker 1: even calling him a quote unquote suspect. What do you
2:57
Speaker 1: think is causing all this delay and confusion in this case?
3:01
Speaker 2: Definitely it's the high profile nature of the individual. You
3:04
Speaker 2: have a famous singer, an up and comer in the
3:08
Speaker 2: musical industry as somebody who is a potential suspect. When
3:12
Speaker 2: you have these types of individuals, they have access to
3:14
Speaker 2: very high priced attorneys. The media is going to be
3:18
Speaker 2: a open season, feeding frenzy. Whatever you want to say
3:22
Speaker 2: about the case, and when you're doing so, if you're
3:25
Speaker 2: law enforcement, you need to say, once you got to
3:29
Speaker 2: an arrest, you need to have the case cold, because
3:31
Speaker 2: after that, every single every single criminal defense attorney Davidhart
3:36
Speaker 2: is going to pick apart every single part of your investigation.
3:40
Speaker 2: So if any single portion of it had issues, there's
3:45
Speaker 2: malpractice involved, anything of that nature, they're going to find
3:49
Speaker 2: it and that's going to create reasonable doubts. So the
3:52
Speaker 2: reason they're taking so much time with this they need
3:55
Speaker 2: to have it cold before they arrest David.
3:58
Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right, and it does say it
4:00
Speaker 1: sounds like they're having trouble too. Even with the evidence
4:03
Speaker 1: that they have, they have not released a cause and
4:07
Speaker 1: manner of death. Her body has been described as being
4:09
Speaker 1: in an advanced state of decomposition. What do you think
4:13
Speaker 1: has changed though, And again, I know I'm asking you
4:16
Speaker 1: to do a lot of reading between the lines here,
4:18
Speaker 1: but you've got experience in this field. What do you
4:20
Speaker 1: think has changed since the time that they were first
4:23
Speaker 1: investigating and they were saying, you know, this might end
4:25
Speaker 1: up being a case where there's no crime beyond the
4:28
Speaker 1: concealment of her body, to now where they're actually using
4:31
Speaker 1: words like suspect.
4:34
Speaker 2: What I think has definitely happened is they have created
4:38
Speaker 2: a timeline of this. So the reason this comes about
4:41
Speaker 2: is because David's Tesla was impounded and when somebody smelled
4:47
Speaker 2: the foul older from it, and then the disease was
4:49
Speaker 2: found in there, and you're thinking, okay, how did they
4:51
Speaker 2: get in there?
4:52
Speaker 1: First?
4:52
Speaker 2: And foremost, this individual is underage and David is over eighteen.
4:57
Speaker 2: So when you think about what could potentially have led
5:01
Speaker 2: to this based on the alleged victims age, one possible
5:05
Speaker 2: scenario is a potential illegal relationship. And you're thinking, it's like,
5:13
Speaker 2: why what are they? What has gotten to this point,
5:18
Speaker 2: and why are they slow playing it? And you have
5:21
Speaker 2: to sing to yourself logically, why would you? Because at first,
5:25
Speaker 2: you can't any kind of situation where you just see
5:27
Speaker 2: a body in something, you can't immediately jump to homicide.
5:30
Speaker 2: You have to have facts because remember a detective's situation.
5:35
Speaker 2: I think it was in true detective every Sometimes the
5:37
Speaker 2: answer is right under your nose the whole time. But
5:40
Speaker 2: if you allow yourself to make conclusions about what you
5:44
Speaker 2: think happened without knowing all the evidence, that's what every
5:47
Speaker 2: conclusion is going to be. You're going to try to
5:49
Speaker 2: prove that correct. So I think law enforcement are doing
5:52
Speaker 2: the right thing taking their time buttoning this up, because
5:55
Speaker 2: as we've seen in many high profile crimes and homicides.
6:00
Speaker 2: If they don't, they will get beat up on the
6:03
Speaker 2: stand by high price criminal defense jurneys, which David will
6:07
Speaker 2: in fact have access to.
6:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, you make excellent points. Last question on this the
6:12
Speaker 1: most recent report, and these were not reported by small outlets.
6:16
Speaker 1: TMZ picked it up. Some other outlets reported on what
6:19
Speaker 1: TMZ was reporting, But there was this, you know, insider
6:24
Speaker 1: information sources they call it, saying that her body had
6:29
Speaker 1: been frozen, and it was unclear whether or not that
6:32
Speaker 1: meant that she was found in a state of being
6:35
Speaker 1: frozen or partially frozen, or if they believe that at
6:37
Speaker 1: one time she had been frozen. And you know, some
6:40
Speaker 1: gruesome details. Just a warning to everybody listening that they
6:43
Speaker 1: had talked about her being decapitated, her limbs being removed.
6:48
Speaker 1: Those are all very specific descriptions, the freezing in particular,
6:54
Speaker 1: because it's so sort of bizarre. Now LAPD comes out
6:59
Speaker 1: and says, no, we're not confirming any of that. Again,
7:02
Speaker 1: I'm asking you to speculate kind of wildly, but based
7:05
Speaker 1: upon your experience, what do you think is going on here?
7:07
Speaker 1: Why this misinformation? Where's it coming from? Why is the
7:10
Speaker 1: police even now taking a moment to address that.
7:16
Speaker 2: I think. So you think about the question from the
7:18
Speaker 2: movie That Departed, Alec Baldwin asked Matt Damon qui bona,
7:22
Speaker 2: who benefits and who benefits from a situation involving Oh, well,
7:27
Speaker 2: that individual must have been freezing. They can't determine manner
7:30
Speaker 2: of death. That's not something any medical examiner or any
7:34
Speaker 2: person in the LAPD is ever going to leak to TMZ.
7:38
Speaker 2: Who's going to do that. Somebody in David's team, who's
7:40
Speaker 2: already starting the PR campaign. That's where I think if this,
7:44
Speaker 2: if I'm correct, and I'm pretty certain I am, this
7:48
Speaker 2: is coming from somebody inside David's PR team or legal
7:52
Speaker 2: team who's already set in motion creating the jury pool.
7:56
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, here in this fact, because people aren't
7:59
Speaker 2: going to be a unhere. As we saw in the
8:01
Speaker 2: Karen Reid case, that case had such publicity that they
8:05
Speaker 2: had to go through two thousand jurors or whatever it
8:07
Speaker 2: was to find sixteen people. And I think that's kind
8:11
Speaker 2: of the what they're doing here in David's case, like,
8:14
Speaker 2: we need to get our story out there now so people,
8:17
Speaker 2: the social media sleuths are going to be like, well,
8:19
Speaker 2: how can they that's reasonable doubt. They can't determine cause
8:22
Speaker 2: of death. That's what happened in the case, the Anthony case,
8:25
Speaker 2: because otherwise it doesn't make much sense. Nobody from the
8:28
Speaker 2: LAPD and nobody from the Middle Examiner's office is ever
8:31
Speaker 2: going to lead that to TMZ.
8:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. Very bizarre, and it seems
8:37
Speaker 1: like the LAPD is doing their best to try to
8:40
Speaker 1: keep this under wraps, but in doing so, they're just
8:42
Speaker 1: encouraging more online speculation. Obviously a case we're going to
8:46
Speaker 1: keep close eye on. I know a lot of people
8:48
Speaker 1: are interested to see how this all ends up, and
8:51
Speaker 1: we will let you know as soon as we do.
8:53
Speaker 1: Let's now move to another bizarre case out of Waukeshaw County, Wisconsin,
8:58
Speaker 1: where after a brief escape from a group home, one
9:01
Speaker 1: of the assailants in the infamous slender Man stabbing is
9:04
Speaker 1: back behind bars. Police apprehended Morgan Geyser in Posen, Illinois,
9:09
Speaker 1: about one hundred and sixty five miles from her transitional
9:12
Speaker 1: living facility, after Geyser allegedly removed her ankle monitor and
9:17
Speaker 1: boarded a bus with forty three year old Chad Mecha,
9:20
Speaker 1: who was barred from visiting the group home. Geyser was
9:23
Speaker 1: released from a mental health facility under a judge's order
9:26
Speaker 1: in September and given a conditional release despite objections from prosecutors.
9:30
Speaker 1: The twenty three year old Geyser gained a notoriety after
9:33
Speaker 1: she and schoolmate a Nisso Wire stabbed Peyton Lautner nineteen
9:39
Speaker 1: times to appease a fictional character known as the Slender Man.
9:43
Speaker 1: Both assailants and the victim were just twelve years old
9:46
Speaker 1: at the time of the haunting crime, raising serious questions
9:49
Speaker 1: about the mental state of the attackers. Ultimately, both of
9:52
Speaker 1: the aggressors received sentences in psychiatric institutions, with Wire being
9:57
Speaker 1: gaining supervised release in twenty twenty one. Concerns about Geyser's
10:01
Speaker 1: stability or lack thereof, remain prevalent, and it's unclear how
10:05
Speaker 1: this infraction could affect a woman's conditional release. However, prosecutors
10:09
Speaker 1: have indicated that they would support a motion to revoked
10:13
Speaker 1: Geyser's release. My first question on this is this, Judge,
10:19
Speaker 1: I mean, the prosecutors were against this idea of this
10:23
Speaker 1: kind of conditional release into a group home. How is
10:26
Speaker 1: this judge feeling right now, and do you think this
10:30
Speaker 1: might change things broader than just that individual judge's courtrooms?
10:34
Speaker 1: Are other judges taking notice of this because this is
10:38
Speaker 1: like the nightmare scenario everybody was hoping wouldn't happen, and
10:41
Speaker 1: now it happened.
10:43
Speaker 2: So when you think of what happens in these types
10:46
Speaker 2: of cases, the judge is the last person who wants
10:49
Speaker 2: to look like an idiot. Yeah, when they make these rulings,
10:51
Speaker 2: they're going on in the limbit, it's like, all right,
10:53
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do what I think is in your
10:56
Speaker 2: best at tryst. I'm cutting you a break you probably
10:59
Speaker 2: don't don't deserve.
11:00
Speaker 1: I would be well.
11:01
Speaker 2: Within my rights to send you to prison for an
11:04
Speaker 2: extended period of time and then you can be on probation. Instead,
11:08
Speaker 2: you get psychiatric help, and then you get to basically
11:10
Speaker 2: go to a halfway house, which is for all intentsive purposes.
11:14
Speaker 2: What happened a slap on the wrist, and now you've
11:17
Speaker 2: made me look like an idiot by cutting off your
11:20
Speaker 2: ankle monitor and going and meeting up with someone who
11:24
Speaker 2: you know is not part of the group home. So
11:27
Speaker 2: when you think about what's actually going to happen. I
11:29
Speaker 2: don't think the defendant is going to enjoy that day
11:32
Speaker 2: in court for the violation to supervised release. It's likely
11:37
Speaker 2: it's not going to be a situation where they're going
11:40
Speaker 2: to reinstate center back to the group home. I think
11:42
Speaker 2: a period of incarceration or imprisonment is probably the most
11:46
Speaker 2: likely scenario because it's like, this is the community based
11:49
Speaker 2: supervision and you're cutting it off, showing that you do
11:53
Speaker 2: not up. You are not agreeing with the rules that
11:56
Speaker 2: I set in place for the deal that I cut
11:59
Speaker 2: you that you probably didn't deserve, and you have made
12:03
Speaker 2: me look like an idiot. Fool me wants shame on you,
12:06
Speaker 2: fool me twice, Shame on me.
12:09
Speaker 1: I don't want to put you on this spot here,
12:11
Speaker 1: but tell us, if you know, how do these ankle
12:14
Speaker 1: monitoring How does that work? Because I think people think like, oh, well,
12:19
Speaker 1: the guy's going to be monitored, or you know, in
12:21
Speaker 1: this case, the girl's going to be monitored. Should be
12:23
Speaker 1: no problem. We're not going to have to worry. We're
12:25
Speaker 1: going to always be able to keep an eye on
12:27
Speaker 1: this person. Is that like an active minute by minute
12:31
Speaker 1: tracking or how do those things work in reality?
12:34
Speaker 2: So The way an ankle monitor works is you have
12:37
Speaker 2: it is set up usually at your home. So when
12:40
Speaker 2: I have clients who are given community control in lieu
12:43
Speaker 2: of in cars racer or imprisonment, they are usually set
12:48
Speaker 2: up at their home. They can usually only go a
12:50
Speaker 2: few hundred yards away from wherever the station the monitor is,
12:55
Speaker 2: and if they don't, they get notification that they are
12:58
Speaker 2: too far outside of the zone. Wapans law enforcement get
13:01
Speaker 2: an immediate notification of it. And obviously they can still
13:06
Speaker 2: follow you wherever you go as long as it's on you.
13:08
Speaker 2: But if you're not following the rules of house arrest,
13:11
Speaker 2: you're in violation of it. And by cutting it off,
13:14
Speaker 2: you are not only in violation of it, you are
13:17
Speaker 2: saying it's like I'm not going to follow these rules,
13:20
Speaker 2: and by doing so, you're forfeiting your right to have
13:25
Speaker 2: the get the break if it were of supervised release.
13:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think? And again I appreciate you
13:35
Speaker 1: doing your best to answer some of these questions which
13:37
Speaker 1: are not exactly in the line of work of what
13:41
Speaker 1: you're doing, but just based upon your experience. Why was
13:44
Speaker 1: there this push and pull do you think between the
13:47
Speaker 1: judge and the prosecution in this case. Here, you've got
13:50
Speaker 1: a case where a very young person committed an incredibly
13:54
Speaker 1: violent crime and only for the grace of God. Is
13:56
Speaker 1: where we're not talking about a murder case here. And
13:59
Speaker 1: they were every opportunity and they are given, you know,
14:02
Speaker 1: into a psychiatric institution instead of to prison. And you
14:06
Speaker 1: can understand a lot of that had to do with
14:07
Speaker 1: their age and the hope of kind of turning this
14:09
Speaker 1: person's life around. But then you get to the point
14:12
Speaker 1: where it's talking about even taking them one step further
14:14
Speaker 1: out of the psychiatric care and into now, you know,
14:20
Speaker 1: basically up a group home where there's very limited obviously
14:24
Speaker 1: oversight the prosecution saying no, no, no, no, no. Why
14:28
Speaker 1: do you think the judge is going against the prosecution
14:31
Speaker 1: in a case like this.
14:33
Speaker 2: It's because some judges are trying to they are trying
14:36
Speaker 2: to see the bigger picture in it. Our judicial system
14:40
Speaker 2: is based on punishment, it isn't actually rehabilitation. But some
14:44
Speaker 2: judges have the ability to use discretion to look at
14:48
Speaker 2: what the law is and how it should be applied
14:51
Speaker 2: and like, okay, based on this individual's criminal history, what
14:54
Speaker 2: they did, what role they played on it, as well
14:58
Speaker 2: as the ment history they have. I think that in
15:04
Speaker 2: this betsest interest to ensure that justices served. We're going
15:07
Speaker 2: to send this person here followed by supervised release with
15:12
Speaker 2: house arrest, ankle monitoring, and judges do that over the
15:16
Speaker 2: prosecution's objection. Prosecutors do not want situations headlines where they're like, yeah,
15:23
Speaker 2: they were lenient with the slend people involved in the
15:26
Speaker 2: slender Man situation. That's not a good headline for a prosecutor.
15:32
Speaker 2: That's a headline that gets you called into the DA
15:35
Speaker 2: State Attorney Prosecuting Attorney's office, and if something happens, you're
15:39
Speaker 2: the fall guy. So the judge is doing it over
15:42
Speaker 2: the prosecution's strenuous objections, because when that happens, they're the
15:47
Speaker 2: one who's gonna get blamed. It's not going to be
15:48
Speaker 2: the judge. Most judges, depending on which state, some are elected,
15:52
Speaker 2: some have lifetime appointment, so it's a situation they're not
15:56
Speaker 2: gonna the judge is usually not going to pay the price.
15:58
Speaker 2: It's going to be the prosecution that does.
16:00
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I don't think the prosecutor exactly feels good
16:04
Speaker 1: about how this ended up, but they're certainly breathing a
16:06
Speaker 1: sigh of relief. That it wasn't on them that this
16:10
Speaker 1: situation happened. And to be clear, there was no you know,
16:14
Speaker 1: we've heard no reports of any kind of violence taking place.
16:17
Speaker 1: It was just that she cut off or monitor escaped
16:20
Speaker 1: with somebody she shouldn't have been with, and it was
16:22
Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty something miles away. I mean, she
16:25
Speaker 1: was well on to trying to take on an absolutely
16:28
Speaker 1: new life. I think she's demonstrated she's probably not someone
16:31
Speaker 1: who's ready for this kind of relief just yet. We
16:35
Speaker 1: will continue to keep an eye on that one and
16:37
Speaker 1: update you as to anything that takes place. Let's move
16:40
Speaker 1: to our final case at a Miami Dade, Florida, your
16:43
Speaker 1: neck of the woods, where a teen's cruise ship death
16:46
Speaker 1: has been ruled a homicide after a medical examiners report.
16:50
Speaker 1: In the nationally public sized case, the body of eighteen
16:54
Speaker 1: year old Anna Kepner was discovered under a bed and
16:57
Speaker 1: on a Carnival Horizon cruise at end with her family,
17:01
Speaker 1: and authorities have announced her sixteen year old stepbrother as
17:05
Speaker 1: a suspect in the death. Kempner's body was wrapped in
17:08
Speaker 1: a blanket and covered by life veest when an employee
17:11
Speaker 1: made the grizzly finding while cleaning the room. A medical
17:14
Speaker 1: examiner ruled that Kepner's death was the result of mechanical asphyxiation,
17:19
Speaker 1: suspected to be the result of a bar hold and
17:22
Speaker 1: minister to the team. While Kepner's stepbrother has not been charged,
17:26
Speaker 1: acquaintances of the family told media outlets that the teen
17:29
Speaker 1: had a creepy obsession with Kepner. As as people await
17:33
Speaker 1: potential charges in the gruesome case, authorities continue to explore
17:36
Speaker 1: all avenues in the investigation, and much like our first case,
17:40
Speaker 1: they remain tight lipped with their findings. This case went
17:47
Speaker 1: from kind of curious sad and within days has turned
17:54
Speaker 1: very sinister. And now it's looking very much like we're
17:57
Speaker 1: dealing with a homicide, perhaps committed by a very young person. Again,
18:01
Speaker 1: a young person committing an incredible act of violence. My
18:05
Speaker 1: first question to you, though, is there's this bizarre and
18:08
Speaker 1: I wonder if you know now that you're you know,
18:12
Speaker 1: being a person who practices in Florida, it's this bizarre
18:14
Speaker 1: situation where because the crime took place on the quote
18:18
Speaker 1: unquote high seas, the FBI has jurisdiction they're investigating. But
18:23
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, well they hand that investigation off to Florida
18:28
Speaker 1: prosecutors to prosecute, or do you think it will remain
18:31
Speaker 1: with federal prosecutors? And then how does any of that
18:35
Speaker 1: affect the idea that we've got a sixteen year old
18:37
Speaker 1: and whether or not that person might be prosecuted as
18:39
Speaker 1: an adult.
18:41
Speaker 2: So let's try to break it down what you're saying.
18:44
Speaker 2: In any kind of situation where crimes are committed against
18:47
Speaker 2: somebody internationally, the FBI has jurisdiction. This was a cruise ship,
18:52
Speaker 2: and if you're more than five miles offshore, that's considered
18:56
Speaker 2: international waters, so that at this time they have haven't
19:00
Speaker 2: been able to discount the fact that this alleged crime
19:03
Speaker 2: happened in international water. So you're thinking, okay, who would
19:06
Speaker 2: have potentially jurisdiction. The Fed's first and foremost, Since the
19:09
Speaker 2: FBI is the ones who are investigating, it could potentially
19:13
Speaker 2: go to the federal prosecutors. This is where it gets interesting.
19:16
Speaker 2: There is concurrent jurisdiction for both state and federal crimes
19:20
Speaker 2: in a homicide case. What will tell me a lot
19:23
Speaker 2: is whether the Feds keep it and choose to indict
19:27
Speaker 2: themselves or they hand it off to the state. If
19:30
Speaker 2: they hand it off to the state, the Feds are saying,
19:33
Speaker 2: in my opinion, they don't think the case is an
19:36
Speaker 2: ironclad case. Having as a federal criminal defense attorney, the
19:40
Speaker 2: Feds have absolutely no patience for cases that aren't perfectly
19:45
Speaker 2: buttoned up where their conviction probability conviction isn't ninety eight
19:50
Speaker 2: percent or higher. They're not going to take some fifty
19:53
Speaker 2: to fifty homicide where it's circumstantial, where they're not going
19:56
Speaker 2: to be able to prove it. They know that they
19:58
Speaker 2: have a cold And what I know is on Core
20:00
Speaker 2: TV with Julie Grant today and they had a lieutenant
20:02
Speaker 2: on who talked about security at a cruise ships, and
20:05
Speaker 2: they know how many surveillance cameras they have in that
20:09
Speaker 2: place on any kind of cruise ship at any time.
20:12
Speaker 2: So if they have the zeroed in on the step
20:14
Speaker 2: brother as a suspect, I have to think there's video
20:18
Speaker 2: footage of the step brother being the last person to
20:22
Speaker 2: see the alleged victim alive, and that nobody else went
20:25
Speaker 2: in and nobody else came out but him.
20:28
Speaker 1: Now I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I remember
20:31
Speaker 1: early on when we were trying to figure out is
20:34
Speaker 1: what are investigators looking for. My thought was the same
20:37
Speaker 1: as what you just told us, that those cruise ships
20:39
Speaker 1: are like basically tracking people's movements every step, everywhere they
20:43
Speaker 1: go on that trip that ship. There's no way that
20:47
Speaker 1: someone could have got in and out of that room
20:49
Speaker 1: without it being detected. And the idea that you're dealing
20:52
Speaker 1: with the cruise ship out in the middle of the ocean,
20:54
Speaker 1: it's not like a person came in from outside or escaped.
20:57
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like they know who they're dealing with.
20:59
Speaker 1: And it does sound like now they've narrowed it down
21:03
Speaker 1: fairly easily to the person that they're looking at. Okay,
21:06
Speaker 1: let's assume then for a moment, because this might be
21:09
Speaker 1: something you're more equipped to answer. Let's assume, but I
21:15
Speaker 1: want to cut you short. If you know how this
21:17
Speaker 1: works federally, please jump in. But let's assume it goes
21:20
Speaker 1: to the Florida state side of things for the prosecution.
21:25
Speaker 1: The FEDS investigate it, they hand it off to state
21:28
Speaker 1: prosecutors in Florida to prosecute as a homicide. But you're
21:31
Speaker 1: dealing with a sixteen year old. How does it work?
21:33
Speaker 1: As far as will that remain a juvenile case and
21:37
Speaker 1: be prosecuted on that level. Is there a way of
21:39
Speaker 1: prosecuting a sixteen year old as an adult in Florida?
21:42
Speaker 1: Do you know how these things work? Yes? I do so.
21:46
Speaker 2: In the state of Florida, when you have juvenile crimes,
21:49
Speaker 2: usually fourteen and fifteen year olds sometimes kept as juvenile,
21:53
Speaker 2: you can still direct file. Direct file is the act
21:56
Speaker 2: of taking a juvenile case and filing it in Circuit
21:59
Speaker 2: Felony Corps sixteen and seventeen year olds. You can do
22:02
Speaker 2: that without any kind of issue. So the way that
22:05
Speaker 2: works is this they would do if it comes down
22:08
Speaker 2: as a homicide and Miami Dade State Attorney's Office takes
22:11
Speaker 2: the case, they would direct file the case very likely
22:15
Speaker 2: from juvenile where it would start. He'd be given put
22:18
Speaker 2: in a juvenile detention facility for twenty one days and
22:22
Speaker 2: that's the amount of time that is needed for whether
22:25
Speaker 2: to be charged or released. And what they'll do is
22:28
Speaker 2: they'll absolutely charge within that twenty one days because in
22:31
Speaker 2: the state of Florida, if you don't, you have the
22:33
Speaker 2: right to an adversarial preliminary hearing, which is basically free discovery.
22:37
Speaker 2: You get to see exactly what the state has and
22:40
Speaker 2: they hate those hearings of the state, so they're always
22:43
Speaker 2: going to want to make that filing decision before in
22:46
Speaker 2: so a homicide case would be transferred to the Circuit
22:48
Speaker 2: court with for juvenile for sixteen years old. This is
22:52
Speaker 2: where it gets interesting. With it being a homicide case,
22:56
Speaker 2: death penalty for juvenile is off the table. Additionally, life
23:00
Speaker 2: without parole is off the table as well in this
23:02
Speaker 2: if there were to be a conviction, sense because there
23:06
Speaker 2: was a Supreme Court case that struck down life without parole.
23:10
Speaker 2: So the way it would work is if there was
23:12
Speaker 2: a homicide, there would be whether it was most likely
23:16
Speaker 2: I'm going to get a second degree murder that carries
23:18
Speaker 2: with it a potential up to a life sentence, but
23:23
Speaker 2: that individual is given a review of its case after
23:26
Speaker 2: twenty five years. If that's if that's kind of where
23:31
Speaker 2: it goes. That's where I kind of see the disposition
23:34
Speaker 2: of the case going.
23:35
Speaker 1: Do you think they will direct file Do you think
23:37
Speaker 1: this is socierty? Wow? Wow? Yes?
23:40
Speaker 2: Sixteen years old second degree homicide. Allegations of concealment based
23:46
Speaker 2: on the life jackets using an armbar. That means that
23:49
Speaker 2: individual had to apply allegedly a significant amount of force
23:54
Speaker 2: to overcome to be able to strangle somebody to the test,
23:58
Speaker 2: which it doesn't take twenty seconds in the movies, it
24:01
Speaker 2: takes several minutes. An individual usually can survive about three
24:05
Speaker 2: minutes without air. So if you can think of three
24:08
Speaker 2: minutes of somebody screaming and this, that and the other,
24:11
Speaker 2: that's the type of force it would take to be
24:13
Speaker 2: able to do this. With this allegation, how they determine
24:17
Speaker 2: cause of death.
24:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you pointed that out. I think that's
24:20
Speaker 1: a point that many people may not appreciate. You know,
24:23
Speaker 1: you watch the movies and somebody grabs someone around the
24:26
Speaker 1: neck and it's a few seconds later they're dead, Whereas
24:30
Speaker 1: in reality, it takes you know, maybe a few seconds
24:33
Speaker 1: for them to lose consciousness and then evan after then
24:36
Speaker 1: you have to continue to apply force for that period
24:39
Speaker 1: of the like you said, for them to have a
24:42
Speaker 1: lack of oxygen to the brain long enough for them
24:45
Speaker 1: to actually expires. It's a gruesome way to kill someone
24:48
Speaker 1: and very very involved and very intimate, and like you said,
24:52
Speaker 1: usually a good indicator of premeditation. Wow, crazy cases that
24:57
Speaker 1: we're going over this week. I really appreciate all of
25:00
Speaker 1: your insights. Matt was fantastic talking to you as always.
25:03
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on. Where can people find out
25:06
Speaker 1: more about you?
25:07
Speaker 2: You can find me on all social medias at Tympanic Law, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn,
25:15
Speaker 2: and at my website www dot tympaniclaw dot com.
25:19
Speaker 1: Fantastic. Thank you again, my friend. I am your host,
25:22
Speaker 1: josh Ritter. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter
25:24
Speaker 1: at Joshua Ritter EESQ. And if you want to hear
25:27
Speaker 1: my thoughts and coverage on even more true crime cases,
25:29
Speaker 1: please check out my new YouTube channel, Courtroom Confidential. And
25:34
Speaker 1: you can of course find all of your sidebar episodes
25:36
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, and we would love to
25:39
Speaker 1: hear from you. If you've got questions or comments you'd
25:41
Speaker 1: like us to address, please tweet us your questions with
25:44
Speaker 1: the hashtag TCN Sidebar and thank you for joining us
25:48
Speaker 1: at the True Crime News Sidebar